They showed a montage of clips for shows airing in January tonight during the rerun of Friends.
At the end of the clips, they showed several brief clips from 812, all consisting of Joey and Rachel close together sort of looking flirtatiously at each other, with the voiceover saying "And the Rachel/Joey storyline continues on Friends."
Supposedly, for those who have read the preview, those flirtatious looks are likely coming from them practicing for Joey's real date the following night. The whole show revolves around Joey/Rachel becoming attracted to each other during the date, so the scenes in Joey and Rachel's apartment are probably before that.
But it's nice to see them starting to promote those two together, like I've thought since I first got here, they are better for each other today than Ross and Rachel are.
Frankly, this R&J thing makes me almost physically ill. If they get a relationship going I think I'll just stop watching.
Yeah, I know that's a little strong, and I'll probably eat my words later, but really, the only reason I watch week after week is in the hope that R&R might discover the inevitable, get married and live normally ever after. Normally ever after, like happily ever after, is a fairy tale ending, but why not. It's all made up anyway. In light of all the bad things in our world, and so many things surfacing in just this past year, can't something good happen for once?
I'm sorry, but that comment is incredibly inappropriate. How can something as insignificant as who gets together on a fantasy sitcom somehow make amends for the terrorist attacks?
I can't believe I'm even arguing the point, but how can you say this Joey and Rachel pairing would be bad for the show when they are continuously marketing the episodes of Friends from this storyline? Maybe people need to fall in love all over again, rather than sit through some boring, mindnumbingly predictable conclusion.
I know it got my heart racing to see these two people, who have never been really close, start to get those genuine feelings for one another. It's much more exciting to watch than Ross and Rachel reuniting for the 15th time, isn't it?
And you use the phrase "normal". Is it some sort of wacky idea coming out of left field that two people of the opposite sex, who have been friends for a long time and have shared a small apartment for a couple of years, might actually develop feelings for each other?
Joey & Rachel won't ruin the show. You may stop watching because R&R are gone, but how much of a Friends fan were you in the first place when you only tune in to see the dating status of two people on the show.
Trying to speak while avoiding the trap of overemotionalism, here is the case for and against each pairing as I see it:
If David Schwimmer is in fact planning to leave the show, the R&J axis may be developed as a way to contine Rachel's romantic storyline with Ross gone. In which case, R&J probably will indeed happen. They are currently the two strongest people in the cast, and the only characters who are consistently well written; bottom line is, the writers have lost interest in everybody else. Some folks, like Johnson, will enjoy this new development because it's a pairing we haven't seen before. I do think, quite honestly, that Joey and Rachel as a couple will be a much more successful idea if Ross is on his way out (and, one can hope, with Mona at his side. Rumors I've heard indicate however that Mona is going without Ross.) As long as Rachel is raising Ross' baby without him having custody, and this is a situation which is consistently brought up, there will be very cumbersome, and in some places tiresome emotional baggage on this show.
As I have said before, if Ross does not end up with Rachel, his whole eight year story arc will have been a depressingly, cruelly bleak mess almost from beginning to end. The overall picture will be that he was too geeky, too insecure, too unattractive, and in the end, too emotionally unstable to be able to sustain any meaningful connection with anyone. Each of the six characters has something they have been seeking for years. Rachel wanted financial independance and the ability to run her own life. She got it. Monica wanted to get married. She got it. Phoebe wanted to find her family. She got it. Chandler wanted to overcome his fear of intimacy. He was able to do that. Joey wanted to be a successful actor. He finally got it this year. Ross wanted love. The story that has developed is that he's not worthy of it, and he is doomed to a downward spiral in which every successive failure makes him less stable than he was before and renders his prognosis worse and worse. Unless recent events regarding Mona, and the assingments of her actress, take a drastic turn, he's not ending up with Mona. The idea of him ending up with Phoebe is pretty much Tennant's pipe dream. So either he will end up hanging around Rachel and her new love, lingering for a chance to see his kid, or the franchise will give up on him and throw him away.
Nice, after eight years of suffering with this poor guy.
I think it was Sofya who pointed out reasons why Rachel was cruel to Ross and suggests that possibly he deserves better than her. I would be inclined to agree with that (while Rachel is a wonderful sitcom character, I don't think she's a very nice person) if I thought he was actually going to get to do better.
There are several ways this could go. As I suggested before, J&R could be made into a couple because DS is leaving. Ross COULD hang around mooning over his lost chances, though that would be depressing. The J&R thing could be an attempt to put suspense back in the show, too. It does occur to me that the only rival the writers could give Ross who would be even remotely challenging basically IS one of the other Friends. (And Chandler, being married, is kind of out of the picture.) We all know by now that guest star characters are as permanent as mayflies, and they can be broken in a single episode over the tiniest of faults. No guest star boyfriend of Rachel's stands a chance. If the writers really did want us to question whether or not Rachel would end up back with her ex-husband, the father of her child, they would HAVE to throw us as big a curve ball as Joey. Futhermore, they would have to have spent much of the season building up Joey's relationship with Rachel and downplaying Ross - because honestly, if both were shown with her a lot, it would be a slam dunk. Eight years of history and his baby on the way, Ross trumps Joey cold - unless Joey's been spending much more time with Rachel than Ross has.
As for how something as insignificant as who gets together on a fantasy sitcom can make amends for the terrorist attacks... well, no, of course it can't. But Friends cast made the list of 25 most Intriguing People of the Year because, as the magazine said, at a time like this, a hurting nation embraced the comforting and familiar, even in their light entertainment, and "just wanted to hang out with their Friends."
At any rate, I think the result of this storyline is probably largely based on situations beyond our control. Considerations of whether or not there will be another season, who is staying, who is going, how they can best keep the show alive with possible shifts will play a very large part in what happens, and there just no reason to argue about it. They will do what they have to do to try to make it work, and either we will cheer or shut it off in disappointed disgust, (and both reactions will happen no matter what) but their logistics will determine the fictional scenario.
The actors have all said since nearly day one that they would not continue on with the show if someone were to leave. I really don't think they will continue on without David Schwimmer, almost 100% sure of that. Each character is too integral to the show to have one of them leave. If there were maybe 15 characters, like there is sometimes on ER, then I could see more of a revolving door on Friends, but not when it's just been the 6 of them for 8 years. And I agree, Mona is going to be on her way out before the show ends, so Ross has basically Rachel or Phoebe as his romantic choices.
And Ross has received love on the show a million times over Chandler and Joey have had. Didn't that Shakespeare guy once say "Tis better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all"? Joey has led an incredibly empty life with not being in love with a woman before, and his friendship with Rachel may be bringing those feelings to the fold.
The story that has developed is that he's
Yeah, he's really "suffered" for 8 years, hasn't he... So let me get this straight, having him end up with Rachel again for maybe the 10th time, and getting married for the 4th time, somehow makes everything a happy ending and makes amends for all that has happened to him? The guy doesn't even love Rachel anymore, so how would he be suffering if he saw Rachel end up with Joey? And wouldn't you think the guy would have so much more access to Rachel's baby than Carol's baby?
And haven't you noticed this season how Rachel's faults and dark sides seem to come out when she's dealing with Ross? She wanted to lie and deceive her friends just so she didn't have to admit that she came on to Ross in TOW The Videotape. When dealing with Dr. Green, she threw all of the blame on to Ross just so she didn't have to face her father's anger.
OTOH, the friendship between Joey & Rachel this season has been almost frictionless. Yes, that may be partly due to the fact that Joey's big heart/small mind combo doesn't force many complications in their friendship, but Rachel has come off looking better when she interacts with Joey.
I think you make a valid argument about Joey being the only person left on the show who could put some doubt in the Ross & Rachel conclusion. I would agree with you more IF:
1.) They haven't seriously developed the J&R friendship this season, and allowed people to start to be emotionally invested in the pairing. If they just hooked up without much development, no one would really care too much if and when they broke up. But the more they focus on these developing feelings between Joey and Rachel, the harder it is going to be for most to be in Ross's corner in all this.
2.) They had developed Ross MORE in this whole story. By this time in the first season, he was way more involved with Carol in having Ben. He had attended Lamaze classes and had all of these baby storylines for him. He has hardly mentioned a word about the baby since 805. Don't they need to push Ross more into this storyline in order for people to seriously believe him hooking back up with Rachel at the end?
Yeah, and notice it didn't say "Due to the nation's undying love for the Ross & Rachel storyline, people have been able to cope more with the cruelties of the terrorist attacks." And you know why they didn't say that, because THIS SHOW DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND ROSS AND RACHEL!
Pardon me... :)
If they go to a 9th season, I think the Joey & Rachel relationship is almost a lock. It's a storyline that can get a lot of mileage out of it, and carry into a 9th season where the eventual Ross & Rachel reunion could actually get some development.
Are you saying it is better to have loved and lost Emily - in quite the manner that occurred - than never to have let her darken your door?????
Or are you saying, basically, "Well, Ross had a shot at love and he blew it. We don't care. Dump him. Onward!"
I don't get your sarcasm here. Yes. He has. Rather profoundly. He's been through three divorces and he's sired two children he doesn't get to care for.
Are you single? Do you not get how bad this situation is? David Schwimmer said in an interview that the writers had Ross go through some troubles that were neither warranted nor, from a storytelling perspective, wise. He thinks it's all too much. I think it borders on sick.
So let me get
Having his story resolved HAPPILY and well, in whatever manner, would be nice. He's a loser in the toilet if he ends the show alone. That does require that he get the girl - or at least, a girl. We agree that Mona and Phoebe are not going to happen, though one of them could solve the problem. However, they won't. It's Rachel or dust - and honestly, I WAS pulling for Mona for awhile.
You are now guilty of something that you accuse R&R enthusiasts of all the time. You get so angry when people proclaim that MOST people are for R&R. Well, the fact is, we don't have any reliable numbers for enthusiasts of either couple and anybody who pretends they do is making stuff up. It appears to me that there are a pretty fair number of people in all kinds of different camps - not only R&R, and R&J, but Break Everybody Up, Couples Suck and Who Cares. Johnson, you have no more evidence that "most" people are for R&J than Trigger has that "most" people are for R&R, and I bet neither point of view has a plurality anyway.
I'm bending over backwards trying to see this from another angle and you accuse me of saying the show revolves around R&R. I never once in my post even began to say any such thing. My thesis was that Ross deserved a decent and well-considered ending to his story, not that he's the center of the Friends universe. My comment arose from one thing only; somebody suggested that they were interested in seeing *something*, however trivial, come out right in the year of Osama Bin Laden, and you attacked them for seeking solace in entertainment. My point was that we are ALL seeking solace in entertainment
I seriously doubt that the Rachel/Joey relationship will be permanent. However, it is a way to make the whole Ross/Rachel/Baby situation alot more interesting.
If Rachel and Joey do become an official couple, I'll be looking forward to Ross's reaction when he finds out.
Okay, I got a little bit wordy below. I prefer to keep it brief, but what can I say. . . not tonight.
"Anonymous" wrote in message news:[email]...
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So, your point of view would be what? A terrible trajedy has struck us. For those of us in the U.S. it happened right here at home. I think we are both in agreement about the horror of terrorism, but are you saying that nothing good, related or not, should ever happen? Because, honestly, I look around at very good friends of mine losing their jobs, people fearing that they might go homeless because they were running so close to the edge already, it won't take much more to push them over it. I look at the coworkers of mine who have lost their jobs, and I wonder if I might be one of the next ones to go.
So, I look to a little television comedy to escape for a half-hour each week, Is that a bad thing? I'm certainly sorry if my comment came off badly. I didn't lose anyone personally at the World Trade Center, but I do what it is like to lose someone close. Sometimes these days I just feel like I need 30 minutes to catch my breath from what's going on around me. I can't explain the reaction I had to the ad I saw tonight with Rachel and Joey. In fact, it took me by surprise myself. So, I felt compelled to share it.
For me, I'd like to see Ross stop whining and be the kind of man we know he can be. We've seen glimpses of it, like the little scene on the stoop where he told Rachel Chandler's middle name, and he reassured her. I thought that was a really nice moment. On the other hand, Rachel tends to be a bit bossy, but I think her trip to the middle-ground is shorter than his.
So, that's what *I* would like to see. By no means am I saying this is the ways things *should* be. It's only my opinion. I respect that others have different opinions, and for the J&R contingent, I'm sure there will be some enjoyable moments to come very soon. Even if I'm not looking forward to it myself, it is good to know that there are people out there who will appreciate it, and I can be happy for them.
I wouldn't say they've been "continuously" marketing it, but I agree there have been little moments here and there. It seems a little taboo. Maybe that's part of the excitement.
I'll bet you are a real go-getter, doing new and fun things all the time. That's cool. I can appreciate that. I'm a little more laid-back, but it takes all kinds.
I'd rather see the old thing work out. It's like a 10 year old marriage--it isn't new and exciting, but it's good in other ways, or at least, it has great potential (IMHO). I guess I've reached a point in my own life (OMG, I've gotten old or something) where the joy of familiarity outweighs the joy of excitement. I don't mean to take away your joy. Have fun with this Joey/Rachel thing. I'm just not there with you on this one.
By normal I was thinking that Ross and Rachel's relationship has seemed to me to be a bit "outside the lines." However, I'd like to see them bring some greater depth to the characters and become "normal." I realize that it's a sitcom, so normal isn't the way it's going to go no matter who ends up with whom. ("Whom . . . that's right." JT)
I've seen every episode for seven and a half years. I think that makes me a pretty good fan. And with R&R's on again/off again theme woven through each and every season, I think it's very apt that I have an interest in the relationship.
Maybe one of these days during my end-of-year time off from work, I'll post the way I'd like to see the season end. It's all in my head already. Maybe that explains why this Joey and Rachel thing through me off course. I really wasn't expecting anything serious out of it. Oh well, only time will tell, 'cause the producers aren't saying much, that's for sure.
David Buehrle wrote in message news:4XUW7.137479$[email]...
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Yes, but haven't they been "marketing" J&P and definately R&R!!! I guess that I just don't understand why the writers have put sooooo much time and effort into proving how perfect J&P and R&R are for each other without following through with their intended plan. To get THOSE people together. Were the writers knowingly wasting their time all these years? I just don't buy the fact that either Joey or Rachel could just put aside their true feelings for the others just to hook up together. And I don't believe that the writers would do this to either Ross or Phoebe's characters. They may be able to make the story lines funny, but that will in no way take away from how cruel it would be to Ross and Phoebe. I do agree that Ross has had plenty of chances with Rachel, but Phoebe deserves Joey. Everyone knows that they are the people on the show that are the most perfect together. The writers on the show have spent nearly 8 years showing this to us!! It has always seemed as though they have been waiting and waiting to hook those two up. And now that it is the last season they finally have their chance. I just can't see the writers, directors, etc.... ruining that chance. And they have to know how disappointed the fans would be if they didn't follow through with their initial plan (M&C, R&R, and J&P). I do realize that a lot of you don't want to see the show end in this fashion, but haven't we all (figuratively speeking) been wishing for this from season 1? And it may seem too much like real life, but isn't this why we love our FRIENDS in the first place. Because we can all, in some way, relate to them!! Anyway, this is ofcourse only my own opinion. :)
Gee, I think you might feel more strongly about it than I do! ;-)
I've been thinking about this issue today. (And I must say, it has been so nice to have a day of leisure to mull over the issues of a sitcom during the day.) In the few months that I've been frequenting this ng I have seen a lot of strong opinions about R&R, J&R, J&P etcetera, etcetera. So, I thought I'd pull my focus back a little to try to see the big picture. You know what I see: I see a lot of people who have developed a real attachment, for whatever reason, to the characters in this show, and I think that's a good thing, no matter on which side of the who's-dating-whom issue you may fall. That's what makes the show so good--characters to which people can relate.
Now, for me personally, when I look at Ross, I see a little bit myself. In fact, I dated a girl in high school and after we broke up we became good friends (after an initial awkward period). Then, I became seriously involved with her when we started dating again nearly 10 years later. On an emotional level it was a lot like the R&R thing. It wigged me out for a while after she broke off our engagement, and I did some stupid things around that time. I probably whined a bit too much too. I was a pretty pathetic puppy. After some time I realized that she was right. We weren't a perfect match, but on an emotional level I wished something better could have come of it.
So, when I saw that tickler about Joey and Rachel, I think it struck an emotional cord that I hadn't thought about for quite a few years. Of course, I could go through a litany of carefully thought out arguments about why I think R&R should be together. For that matter, I could probably come up just about as many repeated arguments against it. But it doesn't really matter, because I don't control the script, and, after all, it is truly just a sitcom. I will try to remember what is real, and what is fiction, and hold to what is real.
And in the end, no matter who ends up with whom, I'll probably still watch, because I like these characters and I like the show.
That's my opinion, and I'm stickin' to it (for now).
On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 02:47:27 GMT, "David Buehrle" wrote:
I haven't seen the promo everybody is so excited about/frustrated with yet, but I can tell that this episode is going to stir up things. It probably won't be as much as we expect; but still, the fact that the writers are even trying out this possibility shows us that they have different options in mind than the quite predictable Ross and Rachel pairing.
Frankly, I don't think the Joey and Rachel thing will go anywhere as they have been working on the Ross and Rachel saga for too long to just throw it away in the eight season, but Joey and Rachel might be an unexpected twist that will keep viewers tuning in in case there will be another season. I have been wanting to see something unpredictable in Ross and Rachel's on-again/off again relationship, and while the pregnancy certainly came out of nowhere, the thought of the two of them getting back together because of the baby is incredibly boring IMO. And even though the Ross and Rachel fans still want their favourite couple to get back together (which is perfectly understandable, of course), I'm starting to get the feeling that the Joey and Rachel camp is getting more supporters by the minute. The way I see it is that now that Ross is such an unpopular character on the show, it just makes sense that the writers will want to see the viewers' reaction when they hook Rachel up with the funniest and nicest guy on the show at the moment, i.e. Joey. Ross is no longer the lovable guy he once was. I was hoping he was returning to familiar territory in some of the episodes in last season, but with his scenes with Mona in 811 TOW Ross's Step Forward, it became painfully clear that Ross still is in a place where he can never get Rachel to love him and get the proper amount of respect in return.
Which brings us to the key point in all of this mess. The two main issues in a marriage or a serious relationship should be love and respect IMO, and Ross and Rachel don't love and respect each other enough at the moment. Ross doesn't respect Rachel's job and career, something he never has; and Rachel doesn't respect Ross, his career or his relationships. We have only seen too many times that Rachel has tried to ruin Ross's relationships, and Ross became a pain to watch as he ruined the remains of their relationship with his awful jealousy in the middle of season 3. Rachel was out on her own, trying to be independent, and Ross couldn't deal with that. Until the two of them realise that they have to respect each other's careers and private lives in order to make their relationship work, I don't see a reconciliation between them, regardless of the fact that they are going to have a baby in a few months.
Joey, on the other hand, has been there for Rachel ever since she moved in; in fact, I would claim that he is her best friend nowadays. He has supported her emotionally after she got preggers, and he has supported her career. Monica, her supposedly best friend, hasn't been around nearly as much as he has. So is it really that strange that we might see some feelings between these two? I certainly don't think so, and it would be as far from "incestuous" as it can get. So yes, it is logical that there might be some tension there, and I can't wait to see what happens between them. If they ever will get further than one date is a totally different issue, and I doubt that they ever will have a serious romantic relationship (due to Ross and Rachel's history), but the possibility exists. And I, for one, would not object to Joey and Rachel exploring their relationship. On the contrary, I find it intriguing.
It seems that the only thing that pushes Rachael's buttons concerning Ross is the possiblity of HIM being in a serious relationship. Now this Mona thing is obviously a joke. Rachael knows that. So she's not jealous. But in the past, when Ross has had true relationships, (Julie, Emily), Rachael has flipped her lid.
Rachaels one of those girls who enjoys the strings. And she might not always want Ross, but she doesn't want anyone else to have him either.
Bring back Julie, and watch Rachael's head spin. If she was to walk in on Ross and Julie making out, I promise you she would want him back. Somehow though, I don't think she'd be that jealous of Joey.
I think it's a horrible idea to get Joey and Rachael together. For one thing, it'll make things weird and could even ruin a friendship between Ross and Joey. Plus, I think Phoebe would get a little miffed at the idea too.
Besides Joey and Rachael are too much like brother and sister. Seeing them together would be too incestuous. (spelling?) I'm hoping that NBC is just trying to bait people into watching with the tacky notion of the two of them getting it on.
"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:QQ0X7.141138$[email]...
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I've been wondering this for a while: When Joey says "Thats right," does he mean that thats the correct way, or that "thats right" i know English. And was "whom" correct in that episode's case?
I, and most people, completely disagree. I do not mind seeing Joey and Rachel together, but they are just a filler storyline. It is inevitable that eventually, they will break up she will get back with Ross.