Learning to Fly UFOs

Hello,

http://www.elgersmad.homestead.com/files/mhd/mhd.html

I have figured out how to build a Inertial Propulsion system that would have any coffee drinker, like myself, honestly believing that they could vibrate right off into space.

It all starts right here with piezoelectric actuators. http://www.physikinstrumente.de/products/section1/Piezo_Actuator_Selection_Guide.htm

80,000 Newtons, is an huge amount of force for the size of piezoelectric actuator.

Now, if you had a collection of piezoelectric actuators, and the total mass of all of piezoelectric actuators was 1/1000th of the ship, you would still have 40 Newtons worth of accelleration.

Basically, a ramp voltage would contract the piezoelectric actuator in 1/100th of it's resonant frequency, then snap back at it's resonant frequency. Since, this was firmly attached to the hull, it would represent 80,000 Newtons of upward force, and 100s or 1000s of times less in the opposite direction. Even though movement is only in microns, the results of racheting through space based upon the laws of inertial forces would have you flying off in the opposite direction of your major upward force, or the contraction of the mass. You don't see beauty of it until you realize that 1/100th of the resonant frequency is not nearly as fast as the mass would fall.

Angular momentum can be canceled out. That means if I used a 90 degree angle, and a main support. The angular momentum would be cancelled out, and converted into upward force. It's more of a roller slipping against a cushion, and a main support that is actually vertical. An upside down "Y" would go down, and this shape ">-" goes toward the end of the sentence. If the "Y" were at 120 degrees at the point it appears like a "V" then it would go down alot faster.

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:

Nothing.

You're wrong, in so many ways.

come on....

Didn't you see Will Smith fly that thing in "Independence Day"?

Looked pretty easy to me.

"The Caretaker" wrote in message news:KdEOe.1741$%[email]...

I'm not

http://www.jimloy.com/billiard/phys.htm

and this is the picture you need to be looking at.

http://www.jimloy.com/billiard/phys1.gif http://www.mvhs.fuhsd.org/i-heng_mccomb/physics/proj0203/sports/pool_files/slide0013.htm

When the resting inertia of an object is a downward force, and the lunging forces and it's energy are inward or outward forces as created by piezoelectric movements, inertia is from branch of the"Y" goes down when they are equal. The two branches in the "Y" represent the direction of two balls about to collide with a third ball in the middle. Since the angle of trajectory of balls A, and B are a mirror image of eachother, the only direction the third ball can take, which is represented by the salk of the "Y", would be down.

Now, until you have actually watched one of these ultrasonic foggers, you won't that kind of lateral to vertical translation of energy. The water slides in, is shot up, and with so much force that it can actually force water under your skin, and that burns by the way. http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/TechBase/fogus_UltrasonicFog.html

I'm sure that the assembly could go together all wrong. Well, the right way would have the stalk of the "Y" made from the same kind of metal as this golf club. http://www.smtgolf.com/woods_Nemesis.asp

Here's a good physics example of what I mean. It's the happy and sad balls experiment. http://paer.rutgers.edu/PT3/experiment.php?topicid=3&exptid=129

80,000 Newtons for any mass is 80,000 Newtons. Then I have to start subtracting for the power supply, angle of momentum, the frame and construction of it, yet for the mass of ceramic by weight, it wouldn't matter because, it would add up like the spokes in a wheel.

The laws of mass, velocity, inertia, all classical physics still apply to every object in the universe as it did before.

Ha ha ha ha!

James William Elger AKA The Flavored Coffee Guy! [email]

I really know it will work, or playing pool adds up to a bunch of sad balls.

Hey,

http://www.physikinstrumente.de/pdf/PicaStack_Datasheet.pdf http://www.physikinstrumente.de/products/section1/index.htm

At 80,000 Newtons, the piezoelectric ceramic can move 80,000 times it's own weight. Sure, that is only 300 millionths of an inch. Now, if I evaluate the speed of sound through forged titanium which is 6070 meters per second. Let's assume that the "Y" post is titanium, and measures 1 meter. The sound wave travels up the post, and then returns in 0.0003294892915980230642504118616145 of a second. So, at a frequency of 3.035 KHz the sound wave returns through the one meter long titanium mass. If I hit it again, and right at that moment, the sound wave will push the metal upwards. The only force felt by the now upsidedown "Y" where the two branches are replaced with piezoelectric transducers is either straight up, or out to the sides and almost horizontal concerning inertia, velocity, and mass. The titanium is then forced upwards. Now, a multiphase arrangement would use multiples of that 3.035KHz frequency. So, if I multiply 3.035KHz by 10, or 100, or 1,000, the number of colliding waves changes, not the result of those waves colliding. That in full perspective of the math which binds known forms of applied physics would shoot straight up.

If anything, I made a mistake at saying you needed to use a ramp voltage. You don't, and it could all be driven by a resonant parallel tank circuit to conserve energy. Second, the mounting of the device would be an issue because, if you hammer on one end of a piece of metal, it will deform as a result. This means you would use sad rubber, or sorbothane, a the base of the inverted "Y", the piezoelectric linear actuators would mount directly flush to the titanium post, and happy rubber or Zectron which is used in the manufacture of superballs. Then you can adjust a sliding mechanizm using a torque wrench to insure that all surfaces meet flush, and firmly over a great period of time with the metal post's malleability taken into account. Idealistically, the malleability would be low, and stress fracturing as a result of the forces applied be eliminated on some in between point. Maybe, spring steel.

Check out this acoustic levitator

http://www.containerless.com/images/aal1.jpg

In the image the three bottom transducers are in a perfect configuration to drive a titanium rod straight up. The milling of the rod would have it meet all three transducers at a very high precision.

In this device, the sound is transmitted through air, and air is a terrible conductor of sound http://esapub.esrin.esa.it/pff/pffv6n3/stiv6n3.htm

Now, compare the acoustic impedance of Argon to Steel or titanium. http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/CommunityCollege/Ultrasonics/Reference%20Information/matproperties.htm

In a one meter length of titanium the loss is very low at resonance, or harmonic. Which, means that out of that 80,000 Newtons of energy, the loss is near zero to the mass. That means if your piezoelectric actuators weigh 1 Kilo a piece, and the total of all of the piezoelectric drivers add up to 1 ton, your payload should be less the titanium mass of 1 ton, or 78, 000 tons of thrust.

enough talk, go build one of the things and learn for yourself that all it will do is shake your table and fall to the floor.

"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message news:[email]...

And there were plenty of people who said this wouldn't work http://www.americanantigravity.com/video/Lifter3-Red-May2005.wmv

http://elgersmad.homestead.com/files/UFO/UFO_I.html

www.elgersmad.homestead.com/files/MHD/InertialDrive.gif

Consider that the top view would show you an equilateral support structure, and a tripod of piezoelectric linear actuators. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/EquilateralTriangle.html

The whole stress, mass, and load bearing frame would be a Triangular Pyramid http://mathworld.wolfram.com/TriangularPyramid.html

The weight of the 80,000 Newton Piezoelectric Linear Actuator, is 20Lbs. http://www.physikinstrumente.de/products/section1/index.htm

www.elgersmad.homestead.com/files/MHD/InertialDrive.gif Looking at the side view again, you see the low angle which the piezoelectric linear actuators contact the frame, that produces an outward force, and an inward force but only a small downward force as result of the incline. The rest is trajactory phsyics of pool, or billiards. Play with this for awhile and you will understand. http://www.phy.ntnu.edu.tw/java/collision2D/collision2D.html

80,000 Newtons, are 80,000 Newtons.

A simple conjuring trick.

Or, if it does work, how is it to be controlled, and what would it's purpose be, as it seems a little flimsy to carry anything worthwhile outside of the confines of what appears to be a bedroom.

A flight of fancy, I think.

Lift is first, and the primal function of just that prinicpal of thrust comes first. I've been looking through the search engines and found nothing to compare to it in the fields of inertial propulsion, interial drives, inertial engines, etc. Nothing compares to it, and nothing seems like it could ever be so stable.

Like I said, 'a flight of fancy' or maybe camera trickery. What was happening is not possible without other external forces operating. The 'thing' in your video wasn't providing it's own lift at all.

Indeed, it looks to me a little like the ping-pong ball in the stream of air trick, though a little more sophisticated, which would explain the occasional balances and imbalances seen.

The ionic breeze works on the same prinicpals. That is a high profile product, and the thing you saw flying is made of balsawood, and aluminum foil. Which, is much lighter than the ionic breeze.

www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview/sku=SI737SNX/hppos=3

If you look at the 317 different flights, there are plenty of video clips to support that they do work. http://jlnlabs.imars.com/lifters/logbook/index.htm

The lifter is a totally different form of propulsion in respect to the Piezoelectric Inertial Drive. Electrical Fields place the lifter in the air, and propel it. It's only a demonstration model, and that's like a fly by wire toy helicopter made in the 70s. http://www.timewarptoys.com/vertibird.jpg The batteries and electric motor that make the blades spin, and cause it to life are in the base that the helicopter is mounted to. Whereas, with the lifters the power supply which provides the high voltage that allows it to fly, is elsewhere in the room. In the video I showed you, it was inside the PVC pipe which was capped off.

The Piezoelectric Inertial Propulsion System, combines what we know about kinetics and metals.

When I mention an inertial mass, it should respond as an excellent conductor of kinetic energy. An example of a good conductor of Kinetic Energy, is a Desk Toy of this sort http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph11e/ncradle.htm That once started would operate for an hour or longer.

The ball the that bounces, or the "Happy Ball" if it were metal would be ideal for the inertial mass. Go to the following link, and watch the video. http://www.ap.stmarys.ca/demos/content/mechanics/happy_and_sad_balls/happy_and_sad_balls.html

The frame constructed of the Triangular Pyramid, would be a sad metal. But, this wouldn't be the result of malleability, but the spring of the metal. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/TriangularPyramid.html

The kind of piezoelectric linear actuator which is ideal for propulsion is typically used for welding plastics. Well, that works with some and not others. I don't know that Zectron or Sorbothane won't melt as a result of the vibrational stresses. Zectron is ideal for being a happy rubber cushion, and Sorbothane is ideal for being a sad rubber cushion, and just like there are happy and sad forms of rubber, metals exhibit some of the same properties. Some steel balls bounce better than others, and there are a few that don't seem to bounce much at all. The piezoelectric linear actuators would bounce one steel ball much higher than another. So, a spring steel alloy could make a better interial mass. The way these materials all respond has everything to do with the efficiency of lift, and I'm directing you towards the ideal list of materials.

Ideal Materials.

Inertial Mass, solid spring steel{no coils}, forged titanium. Materials need to be tested for kinetic energy exchange. A simple set up would be manufacturing balls of a 4 cm diameter, and placing them on a piezoelectric linear actuator, to determin how high it is launched by a single pulse being sent to the actuator. The highest bounce/launch as a result of a single pulse would be the most ideal.

Triangular Pyramid{support frame for piezoelectric actuators and intertial mass} Titanium ceramic. Materials need to be tested for kinetic energy exchange. A simple set up would be manufacturing balls of a 4 cm diameter, and placing them on a piezoelectric linear actuator, to determin how high it is launched by a single pulse being sent to the actuator. No relative motion would be ideal.

If the Zectron, or Sorbothane, or both heat up too much to maintain structural integrity, then a substitute of equal or greater capacity for either function should be used that can either handle the change in temperature, or not heat up as a result of the piezoelectric actuators. These rubber components are there to maintain a specific amount of pressure between the metal surfaces so that the kenetic energy represented in Newtons can be transferred without loss, and to minimumize any potential loss of energy generated by the piezoelectric actuators.

Since, this is a 2D representation, it doesn't show three piezoelectric linear actuators. It is assumed by myself that a tripod configuration is your interpretation of this diagram. www.elgersmad.homestead.com/files/MHD/InertialDrive.gif

That in conjunction with this image, I was assuming would have you draw the conclusion of a tripod setting inside. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/TriangularPyramid.html

The forces have to cancel and add up to only an upward force, and that can be accomplished with 1, 2, or 3 balls if I was using the physics of pool as an example.

The example at this link, will only tell you what one piezoelectric actuator would do. http://www.phy.ntnu.edu.tw/java/collision2D/collision2D.html But, that doesn't change the effect of precision of the piezoelectric actuator's movements. So, in theory I could use three of those in place of three cue balls, all to send the 8 ball into the corner pocket.

Out of all of the laws of physics of motion, there are things that are more difficult to explain, than observe, understand, than use. Sometimes, it seems that out of all of the laws of the physics of motion, there are those objects which defy the laws of conservation an momentum http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3039089

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:

OK, it's not a trick then, but they _ALL_ need an external source of power .... They are not true self-contained 'flying machines' and couldn't operate outdoors and fly wherever a pilot might want to go.

Actually, in theory the Electrostatic Propulsion System could, but that would take some time and effort from some-one that is willing to go back and fourth between payload and lift equations which are all electronics formulas. In otherwords, there is no easy way to do that.

Think about this way, every time you need more horsepower in a generator to produce more watts of electrical energy, you need to redesign the power supply to produce the high voltage, and then you will know the amount of thrust you will need to lift yourself, in addition to fuel, the engine, the power supply, oxygen, frame and hull. But, if the power supply is a few watts short, then the horsepower of the motor goes up, and with that the weight of the motor. The weight of the power supply goes up because it needs thicker wire to handle more power, and a bigger motor will require more fuel to meet the flight time requirements, and it results in re-working maybe as many as a 1,000 equations. That would take an electronics engineer to work out all of the required electronics, with the power electronics, and a payload specialist to prepare a spread sheet so that every time that they adjusted something of physcal size an weight, they would know if they had energy for lift.

I know I've solved that problem, but would need a generator that produce more horsepower or Kilowatts by weight than a lawnmower, or VW, or turbine. Most engines are too massive.

This liquid fueled rocket/generator has a next of kin, which is an EMP bomb. That solves the power out wieght issue. The list of materials for that are much different than any typical generator. Second, there is already several major research groups doing work on pulse detonation MHD generators. Those can be relatively small, and produce megawatts of usable energy. It just needs an effective cooling system, something similar to the rocket nozzles we use today, where the fuel is the coolant. www.elgersmad.homestead.com/files/mhd/mhd.html

After all of the time I had spent explaining the physics of playing pool, and finding allot of sceptical responses. I figured that if you looked at the geometery of the set up and how the piezoelectric actuators actually fit into the picture, then you would realize that it should work.

I don't think your idea is like pool. Your piezoelectric actuators are attached to your UFO and go along for the ride. The pool player and his cue stick, which you never mention, are not attached to any of the balls. They deliver energy to the cue ball, then they're left behind. The rearward force felt by the pool player as he thrusts the stick forward is missing from your explanation.

Even if it did work, what's the pyramid arrangement for? Use vertical actuators, with happy rubber on top and sad rubber at the bottom.

Equal but opposite forces cancel out. You would have an equal amount of up as down from the piezoelectric actuator by itself. I have thought about this several times. There is a way to beat that, but it's not a tripod. If I had two sets of 3 piezoelectric linear actuators, both in the same tripod configuration, then I could have 1 set run 180 degrees out of phase with the first set, and as long as they both were linked to the same inertial mass, then I have my moments, and motions canceling themselves, but not against the inertial mass. You when one group piezoelectric actuators extends, the other is contracting, and the net force of that event cancels out. But, it won't in respect to the standing wave present in the inertial mass, and that would cause thrust.

www.elgersmad.homestead.com/files/Piezo/Page1.html

I realized that much, and didn't feel like spending as much time rendering images when each one takes about 40 minutes to make image quality.

Just build the thing

Einstein: Imagination is more important than knowledge!

"The Flavored Coffee Guy" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:[email]...

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Explorers_Record_Setters_and_Daredevils/wingwalkers/EX13.htm

By positioning the piezoelectric linear actuators as shown. The inertial mass is not shown because it took my computer 39 minutes and 59 seconds to produce one photo realistic image just to show you the angles involved with the piezoelectric linear actuators. The triangular pyramid, and the length of the inertial mass will depend upon the speed of sound through that specific material, and the resonant frequency of the piezoelectric actuator. Both need to be tuned to the same frequency in order to produce a reliable standing wave and effecient lift, or thrust based upon all of the physics of pool and Newton's Law.

Thank you so very much for that lovely virtual aroma you just shot up my left nostral.

I'd like some Sumatra Big Wave Blue next time please.

"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message news:[email]...

this was written about in a scifi novel in at least the 1960's or so, and was just as wrong then as it is now.

Really, give the name, title, and show me where it really explains how it works. Marconi, an individual who financed Nikola Tesla, had a similar idea. But, no-one ever put it to work.

I know it was there since 1927, and I can give you proof. http://members.aol.com/zetaomega/tesla.htm

It wasn't science fiction, it was scientific speculation. A conversation between scientists, and so what if entered into science fiction. Realizm is alway key to a good novel anyhow.

100 times less downward force, okay. But that downward force is also 100 times the duration of the upward force.

How about this idea: A superball hangs inside the UFO/Saucer, suspended from the ceiling by a superrubberband. The pilot pulls the superball to the floor, then lets it snap up and smack the ceiling, giving a blast of upward thrust. Now the superball bounces back down, pulling the superrubberband with 100 times less force than when it hit the ceiling, and the cycle repeats. Pretty cool, huh?

I explained how minor my error was ealier. Let's say it takes 1/4 second to get an object to travel 500 MPH, and a half second later, the next 1/4 second will increase the speed by another 500 MPH. Do you ever reverse directions? If you do nothing to slow down, will you? If you do slow down, aren't you still traveling over 400 MPH? So, if I wait 1/2 second, do you really believe that it would matter? The way the forces are canceled, the operating frequency is between 20KHz and 20MHz. You never would have had time to slow down. Operating the device at a resonant frequency would work better, and I did mention that in the thread.

You skipped the second 1/4 second. What happened then?

I thought your device spent just 1/101 of its time thrusting, and 100/101 of its time falling. Now it looks like you're dividing the time up 50/50.

I can't, but I saw that top on a TV science program many years ago. It wobbled and rocked, stopped, and then spun the other direction. The final direction was supposedly determined by the location, Northern or Southern hemisphere... Coriolis force. It was also said that Noah's Ark had the same ideal geometry as the top, making it stable in rough seas.

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:

Again, it's being acted upon by an outside force, which is provided by the natural rotation of the Earth. Same as why a water 'twists' as it runs out of a sink.

If you think that this toy can be harnessed as a power supply or managed such that it can be a useful, useable transport system, then please explain.

It's _you_ that's making the assertions so it's _you_ who must prove them.

Yes, it can act as a very effective form of propulsion for a vehicle, and in fact much more effecient than any electrostatic propulsion system.

First, a piezoelectric linear actuator moves from it's center, and outwards in both directions. If the padding is just right and absorbs shock, the majority of that energy will balance to near zero. So, you have a forward thrust extending, and reward thrust extending equally in both directions. The gravity and inertia is zeroed out to where nothing happens based upon Newton's law. Equal forces in opposite directions result in a net change of zero in velocity.

Back to Billiards. Now, the reciprocal of the of the impact time in seconds represents the equivalent frequency that a piezoelectric transducer would need to produce for the same result from the cue ball. F = 1/t and t is in seconds. That would a frequency of 1KHz. http://mcasco.com/p1abill.html

Now, what if the cue ball only moved the distance it would travel in 0.001 seconds, and the force were divided into two directions? Now, if the total force of the piezoelectric actuator is 80,000 newtons. Pay close attention to the velocity of impact. It's something around 2.6 meters a second.

Now, look at this model, which allows you to choose a velocity of impact. http://mcasco.com/p1acmod.html Equal masses, exchange the total amount of energy associated to velocity. If the black ball leaves at 10 meters a second, upon impact with the red ball, it leaves at 10 meters per second. But, it is assumed that these are perfect conductors of kinetic energy. Pool balls are very close, and 99-98% effecient is nearly impossible to see.

The rubber seating for the piezoelectric actuator at the base is sorbothane, and at the top of the inertial mass I mentioned useing zectron. I mentioned using forged titanium, or a solid milled piece of spring steel for the inertial mass, and it responds allot like a good pool ball.

So, the piezoelectric movement is at zero at the center of it's mass because of the way it extends from the center of it's mass. The impact with the surface of the mass, will make it want to shoot off just like that pool ball. 80,000 kilograms up, and the piezoelectric movement only weighs 20 lbs. Now, the laws of sound are simple. If you have one speaker with an output of 200 db, and place it next to another speaker with an output of 200 db of sound, then when you measure the sound in that area you will read 400 db. Now, the tripod configuration I was writing about would produce 240,000 Newtons of force. Well, we can only hope that the titanium, or spring steel can handle that kind of hammering. Now, we are to fine point were hardness, and elasticity are the only issues to resolve. We are talking about an object that should weigh about 300 lbs, with batteries and want to go up using up to 239,??? Kilograms of upward force. That could be pointed horizontally, and is probably how these silent UFOs have been running.

"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in news:[email]:

It's explained right on the page you cited: "resulting from the shape of their smooth ellipsoidal base and the distribution of mass with respect to the axis of spin.". You can't spin it precisely enough to have it spinning exactly on its axis. From the beginning of their spin they are wobbling imperceptibly which increases as the rotational speed slows and the point of contact moves slightly away from the axis. When they "stop" they are sort of rolling around the center point and then continue past that point to spin the other direction as the contact point moves closer to the axis on the other side. Simply conservation of momentum.

That means that up can be mechanically translated from expansion.

By positioning the piezoelectric linear actuators as shown. The inertial mass is not shown because it took my computer 39 minutes and 59 seconds to produce one photo realistic image just to show you the angles involved with the piezoelectric linear actuators. The triangular pyramid, and the length of the inertial mass will depend upon the speed of sound through that specific material, and the resonant frequency of the piezoelectric actuator. Both need to be tuned to the same frequency in order to produce a reliable standing wave and effecient lift, or thrust based upon all of the physics of pool and Newton's Law.

www.elgersmad.homestead.com/files/Piezo/index.html

not only doesn't he know how to fly a UFO but his web page doesn't exist either.

The total volume of water is pointless. Fluid Horsepower is derived from two factors. I can use a high volume at a low pressure, and get the same results at a high pressure and a low volume.

http://www.phionline.com/calchp.htm

Start with a GPM of 100, and a PSI of 100. Then set the GPM to 10, and the PSI to 1000.

Quantity is a factor, but horsepower is derived from both.

The total volume of water is pointless. Fluid Horsepower is derived from two factors. I can use a high volume at a low pressure, and get the same results at a high pressure and a low volume.

http://www.phionline.com/calchp.htm

Start with a GPM of 100, and a PSI of 100. Then set the GPM to 10, and

the PSI to 1000.

Quantity is a factor, but horsepower is derived from both. The point of the equation that you trying to say is effecting horsepower is at the point of F*V or Force in PSI times Volume in Gallons per Minute. Now, any time I multiply two numbers, 9 times 8 it equals 72, and if I reverse that 8 times 9, it still equals 72. Both points are equally viable in generating effective horsepower. So, you are arguing that volume is everything, and it's only one significant point of the equation that is equally as significant as pressure. So, if the PSI were set to 8, and the GPM set to 9, then I switched it to a PSI of 9, and a GPM of 8, the result will be the same in both cases. That can be a thousand PSI, and only 3 Gallons Per Minute, or 100 PSI at 30 gallons per minute, or 10 PSI at 300 gallons per minute, and all result are equal from 1000 PSI and 3 GPM, 100 PSI and 30 GPM, or 10 PSI at 300 GPM.

You've made no point, and proven nothing.

It doesn't take any electricity to make the float rise. The tide comes in and the float rises because, it floats.

One Float on a day that the tide changes minimally, it produces 300 HP, or 223.71 Kilowatts on a bad day. Since, I worked out all of my calculations based upon the worst case senario of least amount of change in the water's hieght, I do know for a fact that 300 HP is the minimum. The Hood Canal Floating Bridge consists of more than 18 of the same kind of float required. It was based upon the load capacity of the old Hood Canal Floating Bridge Pontoon Load Capacity of 200,000 Tons. I fished off it myself, and read the plaque mounted on each one as I walked up and down the length of the bridge trying to catch a fish. Each one of those floats do nothing to generate any electricity. But, as the tide comes in, or goes out, there is 300 Horsepower going to waste per float. Now, when I multiply 300 times 18, that 5,400 unused horsepower. Now, when I calculate and convert horsepower to watts, 4,026,779.3088 Watts of power not being generated. Or 4 Megawatts, not being generated.

float powered generators have been in the literature for many years now, this is nothing new. just not especially practical unless you have a spot with just the right tides, and no environmentalists claiming the floats will upset the fish, and no fishermen claiming the floats will upset their fishing, etc, etc, etc...

also note that '300 hp' or '4MW' are not useful measures of the output of a generator of this kind. while this may be a measure of the peak output if that only occurs for an hour or two a day what do you do for the rest of the time? there are huge headaches and much expense associated with planning and building short term storage to make it half way useful.

"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message news:[email]...

Worst case senario, means the least possible output in the course of a day. The 4 Megawatts is the low side. The high side is nearly 24 Megawatts. It is not the peak output, it is the lowest possible output.

The tides do not have to be just right. I'm sure that you can read, but when, if, or what you read has little or nothing to do with my web page, or you would have been much better informed.

Floating Concrete, is alot like waste concrete, it makes a great artificial reef. It can do nothing except help the environment, and it would never hurt fish.

Oil rigs are converted to reefs http://www.calreefs.org/rigsToReef.html

Old Ships are intentionally sunk to create artificial reefs http://www.bigshipwrecks.com/

Concrete is used to construct artifical reefs http://www.reefball.com/nav/support.htm

An article about concrete used to build aritifical reefs http://www.nova.edu/ocean/ncri/projects/bioassessment/

Waste concrete used to construct aritifical reefs http://www.dnrec.state.de.us/fw/artrf.htm

Here is a look down into the water from one of the concrete floats at the Hood Canal Bridge. There is plenty of life which has fixed itself upon it. I lost count of how many crabs, muscles, and fish I'd seen feeding off of that Bridge.

http://tidesonline.nos.noaa.gov/ Any place, Northern Atlantic, Northern Pacific, is good.

If you go here, you will notice that the tide changes in feet. http://www.ussailing.net/FHSC/WeatherLocal.htm

When the tide only drops 2 feet going from high to low, or only rises 2 feet going from low to high, is considered the worst case senario. If you would have read about the whole system at my web site, you would know that it would run through ebb tide no problem.

You don't even understand MHD power generators. It only takes a trickle compared to a turbine. The Horsepower to Watt ratio is the same, but like I said, compared to a turbine MHD only takes a trickle.

LOL, I must admit to not really reading about them, just guessed.

How can a force that exherted from left to right, or side to side ever effect anything that is going up?

Here's a thought experiment. You have two hammers swinging like two pendulums. On either side of each hammer and between them there is a post. When either hammer swings out it strikes the post, and when either hammer swings in it strikes the center post.

   \     \

If put on wheels and laid on a flat surface, would only go right up the page. ^

How can a force that exherted from left to right, or side to side ever effect anything that is going up?

Here's a thought experiment. You have two hammers swinging like two pendulums. On either side of each hammer and between them there is a post. When either hammer swings out it strikes the post, and when either hammer swings in it strikes the center post.

   \     \

If put on wheels and laid on a flat surface, would only go right up the page. ^

Okay, watch the movie, and then explain how .5 watts of ultrasonic sound, from a speaker that only move microns, actually makes the liquid jump in the vials? www.hielscher.com/videos/vialtweeter.avi

Did you see anything move, except the liquid?

The liquid isn't attached to the vials, and can't follow the movement of them.

Nope.

You'll have to explain that video a bit more ...

It may have been camera shake, but it looks like the vial holders move, in which case I'd guess that the liquid is remaining stationary as the vials move, and it just 'looks' like only the liquid is moving. It's also a very inconclusive video, showing only a small portion of what's actually happening.

If you want to 'prove' something you need to show much more than you have ... ;)

Well, a fluid responds differently than a pool ball. But, the physics behind what happened in that video are the same. Very simply, the piezoelectric horn moved a few microns at a very high velocity, and the energy was transferred to the liquid. The number of newtons has everything to do with the volume of fluid set into motion. This issue concerns force, and the velocity of that force.

http://www.mvhs.fuhsd.org/i-heng_mccomb/physics/proj0203/sports/pool_files/frame.htm

The link came from this page. http://www.hielscher.com/ultrasonics/s250l_vial_sonication_01.htm

They wouldn't advertise what wouldn't work because they'd be sued by some company trying to mix chemicals in a heartbeat. http://www.hielscher.com/ultrasonics/emulsify_01.htm

You pretend that there is no energy transfer, I fail to see how the mechanical energy of the motion applied fails in the least.

The stand that the vials are in?

Three seconds of video hasn't sold this to me.

Well, it's nice to know others know how to fly them besides me. I've been worried I'd have to command the entire fleet alone set on auto pilot.