It Could Have Been...SPOILERS

Brand new episode, headed your direction...

SPOILER SPACE

SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE SPOILER SPACE

Flashbacks and alternate realities always seem to be good fodder for effective, funny Friends episodes. I think this one worked pretty well - in fact, for once I think I'm one of the people who liked this more than some others here did.

The storyline with Ross and Carol held one unmistakeable characteristic which, as far as I'm concern, will always make me give it an A++++.

Ross came across as caring and patient person. This was the character who got me to watch the show in the first place. There he was. It was like "Hey Buddy!!!! WHERE YA BEEN ALL THIS TIME???? It is SO good to see you again!!!!!" Indeed the entire scenario was highly reminiscent of Ross in his first season problems, complete with the appearance of Susan to steal Carol, and their complete disregard for his feelings and abuse of his generosity. Yeah, he was kind of a doormat, but we didn't see the "Oh, look how badly I've been treated, I'm so miserable, pity me" stuff. It was more like... "Huh? Have I just been had? Wha..wa.." and the chagrin was much more endearing. Gee, we've gotten to see Ross behave in an acceptable fashion for how many episodes in a row now? Is it only three, or does it go back farther than that? And what does it say about the situation when Ross reverts to kind, gentle, sane behavior FOR SWEEPS MONTH?

Rachel and Joey was pretty entertaining, and I liked the bit about the ring. It did leave me with the thought, "OK, how big a hypocrite is SHE?" Rachel went to Joey's house with the intention to commit adultery. The *only* reason why she did not is because she drank so much she got sick and turned Joey off. But she came home from her illicit tryst to find her husband in an illicit tryst, and went on at some length about what a crumb bun he was. Somebody even called her on it, and she swept it under the rug. Physician, heal thyself. But more on the subject of infidelity in a minute.

I'm afraid I didn't see much of Phoebe the Corporate Shark. My son's preschool teacher called to set up his third birthday celebration at school during the first fifteen minutes of the show and I missed it. I'm afraid, these days, Phoebe kind of lifts right out for me anyway, and I don't have a lot to say about what she did.

Something remarkable happened this week. We had a Chandler and Monica segment I liked. And I liked it for one reason - Monica was much, much more endearing, much more enjoyable to watch, much more sympathetic. If this is what it takes to make C&M work, I am sending Mrs. Arquette 15 cases of Twinkies. I'm serious. She stopped harping on the supposed sins of other people and focused on herself. I found myself appreciating Courteney's range of emotions for the first time in over a year, and I found her charming...at least compared to what I'm used to seeing. Once again, I missed part of the show, but Chandler appeared to have regained his ability to make a joke, and Monica didn't overwhelm him this time. I understand the comment of one poster who suggested that the writers had again tried to cram the idea of Chandler and Monica down our throats whether we liked it or not, but there was a difference for me...

I don't really enjoy the couple we see most weeks - the screeching nag and the browbeaten yes man. I kind of liked these two. They will never replace Ross and Rachel for me, but if the gentle, good-natured dynamic we saw tonight was standard fare, the substition would not seem so unbearably inadaquate to me. Maybe it's lightening in a bottle - they were able to focus on something besides Monica giving orders because they were focusing on Monica losing her virginity. Still, it seems to me they figured out what works and doesn't work with her. Monica is insecure. They should be focusing on her being unsure of the things she's weak at rather than having her bully people to death with her strengths.

There is one niggling problem with the Chandler/Monica story.

Hypocrisy. Full-blown, 15 course, gold plated hypocrisy on the part of the production staff.

Three years ago next week, Ross prepared Rachel a lovely dinner with Cous Cous for an occasion that was important to him - their anniversary.

This week, Monica prepared Roger a lovely dinner with cous cous for an occasion that was important to her - her First Time.

Three years ago next week, Rachel couldn't eat the dinner. She had to work.

Tonight, Roger couldn't eat the dinner. He had to work.

Ross made a disasterous attempt to make Rachel eat dinner. She asked to Take A Break.

Monica let Roger go, with no discussion of any kind of break up at all.

Ross, feeling he'd been dumped and feeling very lonely and a little drunk, slept with Chloe.

Monica, wanting to get laid, slept with Chandler.

Ross was declared a horrible cheat and he was punished upside down and sideways.

Monica decided she liked Chandler better and was rewarded for her conduct with a new love.

Excuse me, but really... the double standard is really beginning to smell.

Claire Abraham wrote in message news:[email]...

Umm, why do you think she was drinking? She was obviously drinking because she was nervous and conflicted about cheating on her husband, which she more than likely was only susceptible to doing because, although she didn't know it yet, he was cheating on her and thus they probably weren't at a high point in their marriage.

Yes, I imagine she was drinking so that she could become more comfortable with the idea of doing something she knows is wrong.

Oh, so she was having this affair because Barry was cheating on her, even though she didn't know it, so it's really his fault? Sorry, don't buy that. She is having an affair because her marriage is loveless and unsatisfying. We knew it would be. She doesn't love Barry. Never did. Thought he was Mr. Potato Head. One could just as easily infer that Barry was having *his* affair because he wasn't happy with Rachel. No. If Ross cannot be forgiven for getting drunk and allowing a woman to seduce him when Rachel asks him for a Break, Rachel cannot be forgiven for coming on to Big TV Star and passing out drunk on his couch. It's the same damned thing. Committing or not committing the Act is entirely a matter of luck. Rachel's spirit was willing, but her flesh was weak.

.

Rachel didn't actual do this, it was a *fantasy episode* (and we don't even know whose fantasy), remember? I think people in this group are way too hard on Rachel. She cannot be blamed for Ross's relationship problems; if he didn't continue to have feelings for her, nothing she did could break up his relationships. Furthermore, I would not want any sister of mine going out with any ex-boyfriend of mine, no matter how long ago we broke up or whose fault it was. Clearly, they each still have feelings for the other (although it's my contention that Ross is just plain weird, and Rachel could do better), but if Rachel is hesitant to actual reconcile, that could be because Ross is constantly jumping into new relationships, never reflecting on what goes wrong for him (which is why he's constantly making the same mistakes). Note that Rachel hasn't really had any serious relationships (or even very many dates, since Joshua, which strains credulity). Or, it could be because their last breakup really threatened the group dynamic, and at this point, they may be really loathe to risk that again.

I far prefer Chandler/Monica to Ross/Rachel, although I wish they would tone Monica down a bit and go back the writing of the early part of their relationship. Chandler and Monica are more suited to each other, personality and career wise, than are Ross and Rachel. I think the mistake here has been in teasing us every season with an RR reunion possibility, rather than just letting it go for good after the Ross/Emily storyline.

I see a lot of selective criticism in this group; everything Rachel or Monica do is dissected like there are no outside influences, nothing going on in their lives other than the 30 minutes we see them, while, if that is the case, Ross is the biggest jerk of all. He never sees and rarely refers to his own son. This is NOT one of the reasons I dislike the character; I understand that this is not a family sitcom, and a cute kid every week would be annoying. So, I suspend my disbelief and assume that Ross is a great dad, when he's not on screen. Similarly, we know nothing about Rachel's relationship with her sister; we don't know how often they see each other or what their past arguments have involved. It is entirely possible that Rachel, apart from simple jealousy, had good reasons for not wanting Ross and her sister (can't remember her name) together, including that her sister is a selfish, shallow idiot, and she might want to see Ross with someone a little less likely to hurt him.

Sharon Gordon wrote:

Maybe not *completely* blamed but her behavior certainly merits *some* of the blame.

I personally think that Ross deserves so much better than Rachel. Rachel has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that she can be a very shallow, selfish, and calculating woman undeserving of any man's love. Ross, although he

has had his moments, has not exhibited this same level of behavior and in my opinion is a much more *caring* person.

Let's not forget that Rachel *threw* him into one of those relationships for her own selfish reasons.

I agree. I just wish I could find that "magic" in Chandler and Monica that Ross and Rachel have had since the pilot.

Chris

I'll be completely honest with you. When I first heard that Ross was getting married, I thought it was just great, and a fitting way to end the saga. I am very disappointed with how it all worked out.

Sharon Gordon wrote:

Please take a moment to read this again. Exchange genders and turn the situation into non-consensual sex and you have the "it's not rape because she was asking for it" defense.

Both of these falacies depend on the notion that *anything* I do to you is blameless as long as you fail to stop me. With all due respect, that is hogwash.

If she would quit trying to break up his truly serious relationships, then his failures would either be his own fault or they would not even be failures. If she would have acted more like a true friend, Ross might not have turned into such a whiner. They *both* share responsibilities for Ross' failures (Rachel's failures are totally her fault, Ross has never once sabatoged one of her relationships). Ross' blame I would largely chalk up to gross insensitivity and an insecurity that sometimes borders on cynicism. Rachel's I would chalk up to perhaps a bit of insecurity (though not as much as Ross) along with a large dose of malicious possessiveness. She who railed at Ross for planning their lives together (220 TOW Old Yeller Dies) had the audacity to plan on Ross *always* being available (420 TOW All The Wedding Dresses, 613 TOW Rachel's Sister).

WHY????????????????????????  Please explain this to me.  Why is it
weird?

That last statement is at least somewhat plausible, but I don't see Rachel ever reflecting on what goes wrong for her, either, especially with how carelessly she casts Ross aside when she can no longer stand the sight of him.

Good point. I think the jury is still out on which couple is more compatible. M&C seem to have an edge in terms of recognizing their mistakes toward each other and working on them. R&R IMO have a definite edge in passion and electricity. My own personal opinion is that the Ross and Rachel characters are SO head-over-heals in love with each other, that if they just let the story write itself there's no telling what might happen.

/BITING_SARCASM=ON

Heck, they might even live happily ever after, and we all know how bloody boring THAT would be.

/BITING_SARCASM=OFF

Properly paranoid over having to face such a politically incorrect idea, they are thus faced with the necessity of keeping them perpetually in tension with each other, sort of a perpetual blissis-interruptus if you will.

1. You haven't been around this newsgroup very long, apparently. There is no such favoritism here.

2. Since no one within the Friends universe is ever willing to truly take Rachel to task for anything, *somebody's* got to do it. Of course, what we say here doesn't mean doodly-squat to the story. It's harmless.

3. If there are significant outside influences off screen that effect behavior on screen, the writers have a responsibility to at least refer to it. Ross sometimes sees and often refers to his own son. Personally I think he should be a full time dad, but I often wonder if Susan isn't the reason why he isn't. I'm afraid I have a problem with this particular parenting situation all the way around.

4. While we're at it, just being with his son does not stop Ross from being a jerk (304 TOW The Metaphorical Tunnel). Other than things like that, I think Ross does a half-way decent job with his son under trying circumstances.

We don't know much about their relationship, but we know more than "nothing." Rachel has alluded to her a number of times.

If that is the case, she has a funny way of showing it. She only talked up Ross' good points because she thought Jill wasn't interested. She was concerned about Jill using Ross, but her main concern was about Jill using him *to get back at her*.

did you just say...hogwash??? exactly what century are *you* living in?

because!! oh my god, how would you like it if you slept with a guy, and then your sister did. i mean, what kind of conversations would the two of you have anymore?? about how good/bad he is in bed? it would always be awkward. >My own personal opinion is that the

i agree

If you look at the real world, he sees his kid about as much as most divorced dads. I personally dont have experience in this area, so i may be wrong. But, dads usually dont get the child in a divorce. If the mother is capable, and loving, that is usually where the child goes, especially since Ben was not born when they got divorced, so it wasnt like ross and ben had this huge bond or anything. Every other weekend is about how much most dads see their kids, and i think that thats probably about how much ross gets ben, but the time thing is weird since we only see once a week.

Katrina wrote:

This one. Would you prefer "bullshit"?

• I'm straight so I wouldn't be sleeping with a guy.

2. I happen to believe in abstinence before marriage, so by the time this kind of thing happened, I would be an adult. Such conversations would be (and are) inappropriate. Hence, no awkwardnes. See how simple that is?

For crying out loud, don't siblings have better things to talk about?

I am the child of a divorce so I know this. However, Ross' situation is unique. There certainly was no acrimony, they parted on extremely good terms given the difficult situation which noone could do anything about. Susan was the source and instigator of any acrimony between them. Frankly, while I take for granted Susan's intentions to be parent to Ben are entirely honorable, I have trouble seeing her in that role. And yet, convenience probably dictates that she has more contact with him and influence on him than his father does. This does not make her evil by any means, and it may make life difficult, but the fact is that Ross should have a lot more to do with Ben's upbringing than Susan should.

Claire, You define Hipocrisy... (I know I sound like a bitch, But don't worry, Your begining to get on my nerves, So I really don't care :) Oh, and Everyone at my school for giving me a migrane and a cold. And then torturing me with it.) So you might have to disregaurd this.

~Ashley* "Don't worry, they're just making the school lunch"

did this episode count as 615 AND 616?

I think a big factor that really should be taken into consideration is that "Friends" is no longer the Flavor of the Month. "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" has become as copied now as "Friends" was five years ago. If WWTBAM were scheduled regularly against "Friends" at 8 pm, it would probably have the same effect as what happened in the (I think) 1984-85 season when "The A Team" was scheduled opposite "Happy Days" and the Fonz was decimated-a-mundo! While I think ABC probably feels it's more in its interest to crush "Frasier," WWTBAM did pummel "Friends" the night of the State of the Union address here in the United States. Staying with the hypothetical, if "Friends" did an hour-long finale, ABC could schedule WWTBAM against it, which so far, has yet to show any signs of losing its strength. It may be more in NBC's best interest to stay with a half-hour long season ender than a full 60. Personally, I'm getting tired of cliffhangers, but we already discussed that here about a month and a half ago.

Well, you feel bad, so I might indeed. Migraines are no fun at all. I've had them for a long time.

If you don't share my opinion on the writing, that's fine. You don't have to. If everybody agreed on everything this would be one boring newsgroup. When you feel better, you might want to drop me an email and explain how I define hypocrisy. That's a personal attack, not debate about the show.

Yeah, sorry 'bout that... I was kinda..... Not in a really even close to a sane place... with my over crowded school, a migrane, and a nose that would not stop running. I had an awful day... It dragged on and on and on. and then I went on my bus full of screaming people and hid under my coat for 20 minutes. So it's been kinda... blah... blee... blam... then I took comtrex now I'm ditsy... Sorry about that really....

~Ashley*

No harm, no foul. The moment I realized you were sick I knew this was going to blow over. I also realized what irritated you; you didn't want me to criticize C&M. Let me repeat; I thought they were a lot of fun to watch in this episode and I wish they were allowed to be this gentle and harmonious all the time. It was the best C&M story this season.

So it's OK to cheat on your boyfriend if you decide you like the other guy better?

Claire Abraham wrote in message ...

No, it's not OK to cheat on your boyfriend. I don't know, though, if Monica and Dr. Roger were "boyfriend and girlfriend" or merely dating (i.e., going to places together, etc.). I'm just saying that the two relationships in question are different in their levels of intensity.

**Meiya**

Very different levels. Ross and Rachel were/are in love.

Adriana

Ross: I don't know if anything is ever going to happen with us again, ever, but I don't want to know that it never could. So I stopped it, and she got mad and broke my projector. -TOW Chandler Can't Cry

Well i think it shows that R&R fans are going to have to accept that their relationship is always going to be a turbulent relationship with many ups and down even if they eventually marry. Cheating, old boyfriends and girlfriends, misunderstandings, and lots of drama. As opposed to the relatively stable C&M relationship

In article , Claire Abraham wrote:

Yes.

Provided one breaks up with their significant other and is honest about the whole thing.

At any rate, I'm with Meiya on this one; I don't see much of a parallel to call it a double standard beyond the bare fact of "cheating." The situations are so different. A closer parallel would be when Ross dumped Bald Girl for Rachel at the beach house, or Joey dumped Lauren (?) for Kate.

David Ballarotto wrote in message news:wQlr4.1360$[email]...

this

I know he directed TOW Everyone Finds Out last season. However, if either Veronica's Closet or Jesse are cancled and Friends continues, then they will be writing a bit more.

Lolo

Claire Abraham wrote in message news:[email]...

Hey everyone, I'm back after some computer problems. You *did* notice I was gone and miss me, right?

There was something about this episode that simply did not click for me. I just kept flashing on other shows "takes" on Alternate Universes, and found this one low on the totum pole. Mad About You's "Up In Smoke" (What If Paul & Jamie Never Met) did this much better. Maybe because P&J saw their world transform around them, forgot each other, made a desperate attempt to find each other again even though they didn't know who they were looking for, did, and all of reality snapped back to normal. That was better, IMHO, then all of the alt-Friends gradually becoming like the "real" Friends as the episode progressed. I'm suprised they didn't include Monica decided to go on a diet and Chandler going back to data processing.

Which didn't "count" since it Never Happened. It almost seemed like a bone to toss the Ross fans, and showed us that all we need for Ross to become a nice guy again is to rewrite history. I still think we need to put Ross in therapy for a few episodes, but I suggested that last season and they didn't listen to me then either.

I liked Duncan Sheik's song playing in the background during Alt-Joey's botched seduction. And that was it. Alt-Rachel never quite learned about tossing rocks in glass houses, as Our Rachel has (sometimes) learned. While it was sort-of interesting to see Barry again, I've never quite gotten what Rachel or Mindy saw in him. Is he really *that* wealthy?

Best part, IMHO. Kudos to Kudrow. Another Emmy nod, I'm sure.

Mrs Arquette does seem to do her best acting in that suit, complete with an interesting voice. I'm not sure about that black nailpolish both Monica and Alt-Monica wear. Is it supposed to be some fashion statement or what? CCA does have better range when they give her good stuff to do. While the TV Guide synopsis for next week's episode suggests that we may see Monica go Wailin' Banshee on us, I think we need more of what Monica was like in the eariler seasons. The writers may feel that they need to boost the control freak aspect to clash with Chandler, but it's just not making Monica as likeable as she once was.

Bingo. The way Monica leads Chandler around sometimes is very annoying, and I hope they cover that in an episode. Perhaps some way to improve Monica a bit is to hold a (figurative) mirror up to her. We all know that Monica will end up like Judy if she keeps going down her current path, which Monica doesn't want. Maybe if a guest character with traits similar to Monica's shows up (not like Ross/Russ, but a different actress) Monica will get a better idea of her Wicked Ways. Sabrina Lloyd from SportsNight would be good as Mona or Monique, IMHO. So, what is Monica insecure about? I suppose Monica wondering if Chandler is ever going to marry her and starts to freak out about it might be good. Another ideas would be about parenthood. While fears about inability to conceive has been done over and over, fears about how good a mother she'll be could be something to make Monica lose sleep. The idea everyone at work hates Monica would be something to cover again.

Bobby C.

"David Ballarotto" wrote in message news:J9br4.1111$[email]...

now

Most of the time when they have a character made up to look fat, they look like this. Drew Carey's girlfriend for awhile, Wierd Al on the video "Fat", Eddie Murphy on "The Nutty Professor". It's probably just the way the latex rubber (or whatever they use) behaves.

SPOILER SPACE

Here goes Tina...=) Right after Rachel found Barry cheating on her, she went to Central Perk and saw Ross there. The two sat down and she complained about men in general and how rotten they were. Ross defended himself by saying not all men are like that, and he told her about the threesome without directly saying it was him he was talking about. Rachel's conclusion was that this guys wife is gay and that's when Ross realized she was. After they said "sorry your husband's cheating on you" and "sorry your wife is gay." I found it to be a very cute scene even if nothing romantic happened with them. =)

Adriana

Ross: I don't know if anything is ever going to happen with us again, ever, but I don't want to know that it never could. So I stopped it, and she got mad and broke my projector. -TOW Chandler Can't Cry

Absolutely loved them! More than the scenes, I enjoyed them dancing in the fountain in their "new looks." Did you guys catch Ross and Rachel dancing together?? =)

Adriana

Ross: I don't know if anything is ever going to happen with us again, ever, but I don't want to know that it never could. So I stopped it, and she got mad and broke my projector. -TOW Chandler Can't Cry