I have to say, I always enjoy good drama, and as a result I did like TOW Rachel's Date, but doesn't drama like this seem REALLY out of place on a sitcom such as this. The only comedy show wherever I thought drama was appropriate was on M*A*S*H, just because it dealt with the Korean War and all of the horrors that came with it.
With 804 being a hilarious episode, and 806-The One With the Halloween Party sure to be hilarious as well, I just found such a dramatic episode out of rhythm with the trend this season. Just my opinion.
...And the maudlin, Enya-soaked promos for the show haven't helped... Is Rachel pregnant? Who's the father? How will Ross react? Now that Ross has reacted, how will Rachel react? Stay tuned for "Part 5"...
Sheesh.
Hopefully they'll lighten up with the Halloween episode.
I LOVE Friends this season. The last two seasons have only been about weird people doing weird stuff. The way dramatic storylines are now used for multiple episodes, combined with comedy-storylines for one episode, reminds me of the great seasons (1-3). I mean R&R getting together, R&R breaking up, that was great drama in the first three seasons... why shouldn't there be any now? I think that is what has been missing for the last couple of seasons.
I really like the way the R&R pregnancy is handled by the writers. One year ago I couldn't imagine that I would ever care if they would fall in love again or not. Or that I would ever care for one single character at all...
"Friends" has always been a bit of a dramatic comedy...until C&M took over. But now things are back on track - there's the inane silliness combined with the R&R angst.
Mmm, I think that's kind of debatable at the moment. Ross as the father has been revealed and Friends is still whipping Survivor's rear. Now, it may just be that the storyline is being handled SO WELL that folks who don't care about R&R in particular are sticking around just to see a good story.
We will never know one way or another, but the writers probably had one of two conceptions about this story:
1. What would happen if Rachel got pregnant? 2. Chandler and Monica are not as effective anymore. How can we put a new and interesting twist on the old R&R storyline? Hey! Let's make Rachel pregnant, and let them hem and haw about they want to handle that?
Ross may have been the intended father all along, in which case the writers didn't really miss an opportunity to use Joey; he was never in the running. I am not saying this is certain, but it's neither more nor less possible than the idea that the writers did not know who the father was at the cliffhanger last year. I know you will argue that you are sure otherwise, but really, we have no evidence to be sure of anything.
Ross and Rachel have a storyline. It is popular because it is well done; if it were crap it would have failed. We will never know how effective it would have been with another father. This is enough.
Yeah, I think they have angst. She's discovering how much her life will change. He's trying to adjust to this new information, and he's wistful about a stable life that still seems impossible. Angst is about feelings, and they are exploring those.
It sounds like the writers make back off R&R for a couple of episodes and do some more pure comedy for a little bit. The angst will be back, but I think there is something for everyone.
Umm, it may be kicking Survivor's rear, but from 803 to 805, viewership has dropped nearly 7 million viewers. 803 was probably inflated because of the Bush press conference, but I think this downward trend will continue the more and more people wear thin of another attempt at tension between Rachel and Ross. And I would like to think the pregnancy story has involved everyone, which makes it a good story.
They have even said they didn't know who the father was when they made Rachel pregnant at the end of last year, so you're wishful thinking this was originally intened as a revival of an R&R romance is just that, wishful.
Ok, this statement is a little misleading. If anything, you are the one who seems unacceptable to accept other people's opinions. So don't start accusing me of doing the same thing, I am more than glad to listen with an open ear.
805 would seem to suggest though that they may be going in another direction. Mainly, Ross finds a new "picture" with someone finally, and has a new child to love. Whether that picture is Rachel is obviously is still up in the air, as it was intended to, but it sure seems like Ross isn't too hurried to fall in love with Rachel again. And frankly, he shouldn't.
Well, some spoiler space....
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In the episode next Thursday which is titled 807-The One With the Stain, Ross and Joey compete over having Rachel live with them to help raise the baby. Now please tell me why Joey would want to compete against Ross so much to help Rachel raise his child. Could it be they might be suggesting Joey eventually getting involved with Rachel, seeing as how Joey thinks that Ross is going to go find a new "picture"?
You keep saying this, and you are consistently wrong. It was more like 700,000 viewers. Unfortunately, you won't listen to this because it doesn't match your opinion. Why do I bother?
What a way to see a glass as .0001% empty! Would you care to give us concrete evidence that "more and more people" are getting tired of this already? Look, the ratings are up phenomenally from last year. This story is a hit. Your better case would be to argue that it's the quality of the writing, and Joey's great supporting work, which has made this story so successful. Saying that it's not successful just doesn't make any sense.
OK, you've read an article I haven't. That's fine. I'd like to read the whole thing; it might be a great conversation piece for us. Do you remember where you saw it? Do they say WHY they gave Ross the nod, or the kind of reaction they've had to this decision?
Well, you just accused me of wishful thinking, you say that the ratings are in danger of collapsing because the show isn't going the direction you wanted, and you have a general poor and rather narrow opinion of Ross and Rachel fans in general. Which is unfortunate, as I have been one of the people who suggested that it was the quality of the writing that really brought the show back to life, and not R&R by themselves. I'm sorry, Johnson, but you are coming across as pretty actively hostile. What I find a little puzzling is that I'm the one you are really arguing with fiercely; my opinion on this subject is much closer to the middle, and much calmer, than that of several other people in this thread.
done; if
No argument with you there. It wouldn't be realistic or interesting that way. One of my alternate theories is that Ross will realize Rachel's been jerking his chain for five years and decide to give his heart to somebody who loves him without ulterior motives - someone like Mona.
I don't know. We'll see. I think that's going to be a great episode. I do think, however, that Joey seems to have been most effective in the past as a catalyst; he was the best thing about Monica and Chandler's great story in season five. Not to worry on this point, Johnson; Joey is going to have another terrific, entertaining season, no matter what his role ends up being. If that is what you want, good Joey stories, I think you are gonna win big. And so will we all. For what it's worth, Joey and Rachel have this in common; both of them think they are all that and a bag of chips, and they sneer a little bit at anybody less beautiful than themselves. Both are extremely charming , about as deep as a saucer of milk, and they deserve each other.
"abrahammy" wrote in message news:tqoD7.548$[email]...
I am sorry to double post, but this particular comment has stuck in my craw a bit and it took me a second to really crystalize in my head the reason why.
What it comes down to is this:
I think the show is experiencing a renaissance, and think folks are interested in the story of Ross and Rachel. I see that ratings are higher than usual and think the show is doing well. I also believe that the biggest driving force behind the renaissance is the improved writing. I would PREFER to see Ross and Rachel get back together, but have not ruled out the idea that another ending might be rewarding if it were written convincingly with proper respect and closure given to all characters. In the meantime, Joey is a hoot as one of the flies in the ointment.
Johnson, what you are thinking may be different from what I perceive to be what you have expressed. However, what you seem to be saying is this:
People tuned in at first because they were interested in Rachel's baby, but when they discovered that Ross was the father, they turned away in disappointment. The show's ratings are now declining noticeably and are likely to continue sinking. The show is not really any good because it can't be good with an R&R storyline, no matter what the writing quality. The only way this thing can turn out to be any good is if Joey ends up being the one who gets Rachel at the end.
I have a preferred outcome, but will accept a well-written outcome which differs. Most of the pleasure is in the journey, anyway. You say it's gotta be Joey to work. I say the show has good ratings, so folks appear to be watching R&R; you say that #2 with a 25 share is bad ratings and it's only gonna get worse because most people hate R&R. Oh, and most R&R fans are annoying.
And *I'm* the one who can't accept other people's opinions, while *you* listen with an open ear?
We don't KNOW why they're tuning in. Unless you polled every damned person who watches "Friends," we're never going to find out. I don't see why I'm telling you this, because you're just going to say again and again how Joey should be the father. For all you know, the ratings are up because of R&R. Maybe it's just Rachel's pregnancy. Who really knows?
Um...Rachel and Ross are having a child together. They're "not" in love. Ross is freaking out about Rachel dating other men. Rachel is disappointed about Ross dating other women. Doesn't sound like happy-time in the R&R world, if you ask me. Their storylines together have *always* been serious and full of drama. It's how they are.
So you don't find any of the R&R moments in 803 or 805 even remotely close to angst (for lack of a better word)? And you don't think there's a *shred* of possibility that you're wrong about the ratings, and R&R *are* the cause of the increase? 'Cause if you don't, I'm just gonna ignore you.
Mike the Real American Hero wrote in message news:[email]...
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For the record I would just like to say that I agree with Mike (and everything he has said on this subject). Mike, don't take any crap from anyone. Especially when THEY DON"T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!
[email] (Mike the Real American Hero) wrote in message news:...
Oh no, please don't IGNORE me! How will I ever be able to post again if you do?
Actually, I never said or believed that my opinion on a matter is THE say on an issue. It's an OPINION, just like you and everyone else is entitled to. What the problem is here is that it annoys you so much that someone DOES NOT want Ross and Rachel back together that you feel angered enough to reply this way.
So I would like to see Joey get together with Rachel. Why should you give a flying crap about it? It's a shame that when people post their thoughts about alternative couples on this and other message boards, it draws the wrath of Hell from all the R&R nuts on these boards. (And yes, I'm going to continue to think they are nuts until they prove to me otherwise.) I am not totally anti-R&R, if you would bother to read my posts. I have been very complimentary of the shows this season, giving them all very high grades with the exception of 803. The writing has been great, and most of the acting has been great.
Guys, just deal with it that not everyone is going to agree with you on this matter and get over it.
And hey moron, here's your ratings for the last 5 episodes:
801-35.2 million viewers 802-29.6 million viewers 803-29.3 million viewers 804-25.58 million viewers 805-25.60 million viewers
We were both off on the estimates between 803-805, it's not 7 million viewers dropping, but it sure as hell not 700,000 either! Or should we even bother to notice that the show has lost 10 million viewers over the span of 4 shows?
Until you and the two others on this board who have a problem with me liking a different couple learn to handle other people's opinions on this board, I am not going to take you guys seriously.
You have certainly given that impression - and you've made derogatory comments about people who disagree with you.
It's an OPINION, just like you and everyone else is
Well, now what we have here is the idea that everybody's entitled to an opinion. That's good, and the way it ought to be.
That may be true of some people, but that's not really the problem I'm having with you. You are stating as incontrovertible fact the idea that huge numbers of people are turning off the TV in disgust because Ross is the father, and this idea is a failure. I don't think you have enough evidence to make that claim.
I don't. I think that's one of the options the writers are experimenting with in these early episodes. I do take some exception at the way you treat people - including me - who have a different opinion than you do regarding R&R...
It's a shame that when people post their
Well, I'm doing my best but you aren't paying much attention.
I am not totally anti-R&R, if you would bother to read
So there is no reason to grouse about the season! Let's all just applaud the good work done and sit down to enjoy some more!
And the only possible reason you see is that everybody hates Ross as the father. I submit - for the second time - that there are other factors playing in this as well:
1. The cliffhanger was a mystery. Whenever there's a cliffhanger, a lot of people will peek in just to see how it turns out. Then they will go away again. Curiousity is a factor here, and I think we would have seen some decline no matter who the father was.
2. Survivor started. You really ignore the impact that had on Friends ratings at your peril. It isn't doing as well as in the past, but it's still the number six show in the nation. It DID pull some casual viewers away. Actually, when I look at those stats again, it seems that the single biggest drop of six million viewers was between the first and second episodes - six million folks who tuned in to see the premeire and didn't come back to see ANY father revealed. Mr. Bush's address made ratings for 803 too muddy to analyze, but the next biggest dip came, basically, as Survivor went into full tilt. Four million viewers there. And then it steadied off. We can analyze this more fully when we see this Thursday's ratings. I do not think you have the evidence to state that Ross in particular drove viewers away. I certainly don't see that it's headed into a downward spiral. And that's REALLY the only thing - besides your contemptous attitude against me and anybody who agrees with me - that gives me problems with you. Now, as for the idea that Joey might end up with Rachel - well, that's up in the air. There are hints for and against it. We will see. I just hope it's written well.
Ooh, this is gonna hurt. You, not me, though. Check out these numbers from nbcmv.com regarding the season premiere.
**“Must See TV” returned in a big way last night when Rachel revealed that she’s pregnant and millions paused to watch the season premiere of the nation’s most popular comedy FRIENDS.
Based on measurable in-home viewing data provided this afternoon by Nielsen Media Research, FRIENDS attracted an average of 31.7 million viewers – the show’s largest audience since Thursday, February 8, 1996 and the seventh-largest audience for any episode in the show’s history. (Note: The series’ six most-watched episodes, including a one-hour special following Super Bowl XXX, all appeared during the 1995-96 season).**
And I have to agree with Claire - remember that "Survivor" premiered, causing some problems with the ratings. Either way, however, the ratings are millions higher than last season (if you don't count Monica and Chandler's wedding).
And if you need to resort to name-calling to get people to listen to you, at least be prepared to say that you were right and not have someone correct you. Again.
It's a matter of taste. Family Ties had drama like this. Cheers had drama like this. All In The Family had drama like this. And by the way, in its later years, M*A*S*H severly overdosed on drama to the point where the fact that it was a sitcom was a bit unrecognizable.
Meanwhile, TOW Ross Finds Out and TOW The Morning After - both of which had drama like this - were two of the funniest episodes of the entire series. They weren't THE two funniest, but they were surely in the top ten.
On 27 Oct 2001 03:44:44 GMT, JamesS1889 discovered his/her life was empty without alt.tv.friends, and confessed their love in a poem. This is how it went:
Agreed. It isn't the situations themselves that create the humour, but how the characters react to normal (maybe slightly exaggerated :) ) situations.
She-Ra "Nearly everything you read signed 'from God' is just somebody putting their words in My mouth." - God
Only if you ignore the better moments of the Ross/Rachel relationship from times past (which would be okay, as many of the writers on the show seem to do it regularly).
This past episode, there was the serious business between those two; the humorous stuff between Monica and Phoebe, and the sitcom dumb stuff with Chandler and his co-worker. Given my choice I'd drop the last sort before either of the other two.
"Jonathan Roberts" wrote in message news:[email]...
I was a little unlucky this week. George and I continue our compromise on watching both Survivor and Friends at the same time, but unfortunately what I got to see this week was Chandler's story, Phoebe flirting with Tim, "yes, that outfit IS slutty", and the very last few seconds of Ross' discussion with Rachel on the step before he went to meet Mona. Enough for me to know I missed a great scene. It's hard for me to comment. I do however, agree with Mike that Ross and Rachel have always had dramedy moments. Of course, that's why some folks never liked Ross and Rachel in the first place. The moments which made so many of us such hard-core fans have always been quite serious, and this turns some folks off. I'd say possibly the core of the whole "why isn't Joey the father" conflict is "why can't they make this a new, funny story instead of a continuation of an old, serious story?"
On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:39:07 GMT, "abrahammy" wrote:
There's this rather revolutionary thing called "downloading", Claire. ;) (That said, of course, I have ADSL now and even *I'm* having difficulty with that right now...)
The thing there is that, as ever, Joey's character is a Swiss Army Knife: when they need him to be really dumb, he's really dumb; when they need him to give good, intelligent advice, he gives good, intelligent advice. There's no consistency to it. In a pure comedy there need be no dramatic trace, but <Friends> has, at its best moments, had one. That makes it all the more frustrating when the writers ignore the sweet elements at the core of the show in search of nothing but laughs.
This is true. If the writers tried to make the show funny all of the time it would be less funny. It would get old really quickly. The drama added in with the comedy makes the comedy funnier and more pallable. The mix of the two makes the show more realistic to our lives and something we can easily relate to
Once being a regular here in ATF, I've somewhat drifted, both from the newsgroup and the show. However, since this is the last season, I figure it's the least I can do for a show that once ruled the airwaves. . . .
That being said, can you tell me Tina, WHERE to download these shows from? www.downloadfriends.com never worked, and I'm fresh out of other places to look. I've missed 2 of the last 4 Friends show, and for R&R fans, this is crucial info.