804 ROCKED!!!

Oct 18, 2001, 8:40 PM ET34 posts by 17 postersalt.tv.friends
34 posts
TEWhomealt.tv.friends

What an awesome episode!!! Everyone was perfect: I loved the Western Europe Story, Greg and Jenny, Monica's questions, Chandler's jokes, doing it on the wedding invitations, Ken Adams, Regina Falangi, the fake number, 6 MONTHS and "We look soooo good!"

That episode was one of the funniest episodes this season (and I loved all three of the previous 3)...Quick question though, I have seen pics from 806 TOW Halloween Party, and Rachel still isn't showing...Isn't that a big continuity error on part of the writers? If she got preggers in April (one month before the wedding) she should definitely be showing by late October/November.

SHNOCODYTEWhomealt.tv.friends

agreed. This eppy was definitely a solid A. spoiler space

i LOVED the R and R chemistry!! Did every one notice?

SofyaSHNOCODYalt.tv.friends

IF IT SAYS 804 in the Subject...wouldn't any smart non-north American watcher obviously not look at that message!! anything with an 8 in the first digit means SPOILERS!! Spoiler space?? NO!

"SHNOCODY" wrote in message news:[email]...

abrahammySofyaalt.tv.friends

"Sofya" wrote in message news:9qpujk$kgs$[email]...

first

I do not have this particular technical problem, and I've never seen it, so I don't know how it works, but those who ask for ten lines of spoiler space tell me this: some newsreaders apparently don't let you pick and choose which threads to read; they somehow download them all at once and the viewers need the extra space as a warning not to read what's coming up. Because they get the header and the content all at the same time, or something like that. This is a terrible explanation, but once again, I don't really understand how it works because I've never seen it myself. If there is somebody out there who can explain this phenomenon more completely, please give me a hand here.

JamesS1889Sofyaalt.tv.friends

In article , "Sofya" writes:

I think we all have been not only educated but bored to tears about all the reasons why some think spoiler space shouldn't be necessary.

What I don't get is elevating this issue to some kind of reprise of the Boston Tea Party, for crying out loud. WHY??? Why is this *such* a big deal?

Do you seriously feel oppressed by the simple request to add spoiler space? Why?

I seriously, sincerely, just don't get this at all. --- James Squire - http://members.aol.com/jamess1889
SofyaJamesS1889alt.tv.friends

Some of us only have 10 minutes to check the newsgroups and don't have the patience to scroll for hours on end trying to find the ACTUAL response. And SECONDLY you guys are putting it in things just for the heck of it...i'm saying this because i have read MANY e-mails that have spoiler space, since the debates on this issue began, that don't have SPOILERS in them!

"JamesS1889" wrote in message news:[email]...

first

the

Boston

space?

JamesS1889Sofyaalt.tv.friends

In article , "Sofya" writes:

Just as an aside, I subscribe to two newsgroups, this one and The West Wing, and in The West Wing, I skip a lot of posts (I skip some here too).

Even when I can keep caught up on a daily basis, I find it impossible to check my newsgroups in anything less than ... gee, at least a half hour.

Not criticizing or anything, but are you by any chance exaggerating a bit? Otherwise, you have extremely fast fingers or else an extremely powerful newsreader ;-)

No wonder page down takes too much time for you, if you only have 10 minutes. Well, that at least makes a little bit of sense, I guess, if you're not exaggerating. ---
JamesS1889Sofyaalt.tv.friends

In article , "Sofya" writes:

Hours??????? Let's see, that's 20 minutes per Page Down key, times however many hours that was....

What kind of keyboard do you have? The Stone Age variety?

Not quite. People are putting them in messages in which *YOU* don't think there are any spoilers. Everyone who is putting them in is doing so because they think it might be necessary, not "for the heck of it."

I will grant you that there have been a few examples where people weren't sure and decided to err on the side of caution, but that's a far stretch from what you are saying here. ---
rootTEWhomealt.tv.friends

I missed the first half could somebody tell me the western europe hiking story was?? "TEWhome" wrote in message news:aEKz7.393932$[email]...

it

806

abrahammyrootalt.tv.friends
I come with SPACE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And I come armed with the feedback of a completely neutral party. This week I was able to convince my husband to let me watch the *whole* episode, and not just bits and pieces in between Survivor scenes.

My husband is not an R&R fan. My husband is not a C&M fan. My husband is a laughter fan, and a fan of good storytelling. (And a Survivor fan who growled a little.) My husband thought this was a good episode, and he laughed quite a few times.

Structurally, it was very well crafted. The circle of logic which led from Joey's seduction lesson to Rachel losing her argument was funny, it seemed to flow naturally, and the final payoff was quite satisfying. I got the idea that the writers were thinking about the storytelling for the episode in a holistic manner; rather than just stringing together unrelated stories in a semigelled mess, which too often happens, all the things seemed to fit in carefully and thoughtfully.

Even more importantly, *every single character* was in character the *entire time.* Ross did something that terribly offended Rachel, but for once he wasn't made out to be some amoral jerk; the writers used the faults which have always served him best in storytelling, his vulnerability, to put him in a vulnerable position where fairly innocent actions could be honestly misconstrued. Rachel's outrage was fierce but not over the top, and she came around in a believable manner. Now, again in focus was something Rachel's been doing to Ross for years: She came on to him and then demeaned him for coming on to her in front of their friends, too secure in her assurance that she would not be caught. Rachel has always maneuvered to make herself look as if she has all the power in that relationship, and it was nice to see her lose the upper hand for once. It was even nicer to see a Friend who has gotten the upper hand not use the victory to beat his opponent into the ground. They actually acted, for once, as if this group of people cared about each other despite arguments. Loved their last scene, but that's just the obnoxious R&R fan in me *luxuriating* in all the good signs and high hopes. My apologies if that offends you. Boy, this is *fun* after all this time.

The first episode of this season featured Phoebe at her best. This time we got the best of Joey. Joey as the seductive predator, Joey as the good friend who teaches all his dirtiest tricks, Joey being a little clever, Joey as the funny face who steals a scene with an expression. He was very well used, and I hope the folks who were disappointed that he was not the father were able to enjoy how delightful he was tonight in the role of catalyst.

The only weak point was Chandler and Monica, and they were weak only by comparison; I actually found them more effective than they usually are. It was evident that they were given their "story", if that is what it was, because they had nothing useful to add to the main story, but here again, the writers recognized it for what it was and played their cards right. The first set of jokes about how charming they were segued well into the second set about how tiresome they may actually have been. Once again, they were not overplayed. Monica did not get screechy, Chandler's quips were well timed, and I found their eventual bickering completely believable without being particularly annoying. It wasn't much of a story - it was more like a second conversation flitting momentarily in and out of the cracks of the first, but at least they didn't overdo it.

Laurieabrahammyalt.tv.friends

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:DzMz7.1468$[email]...

week

from

stories

fit

*entire

This tells me that the writers have left the "crazy Ross" and have taken up with writing a warmer and more carefully written character. A season ago, he would have acted like a buffoon in regards to something like this. And I loved how he turned out to be right and DID NOT RUB IT IN! Wow, what a change! I could hardly believe the writers actually let him have some class.

Laurie

In article , "abrahammy" wrote:

...who needed to use a "line" to score with his date?

I hate to seem "down" on this episode, because it -was- a technically good one; good story lines, funny dialogue, well delivered. But, it was not what I consider a good FRIENDS episode, because, as so frequently is the case these days, it ignores the characaters in favor of their stereotypes: Ross the loser, Monica the shrill harpy, Joey the thoughtless womanizer. Ross for example, was originally a nice guy that funny things happened to because of the peculiarities of the people he interacted with. Why should I be convinced that 1) he's now unable to successfully meet and date women or 2) he's so shallow that his primary concern is getting sex rather than starting a relationship? And Monica's annoying behavior, while certainly consistent with her character in the past three years, is in no way consistent with her original character as definitely anal and slightly quirky, but not so overwhelming as to offend people. A better story line would have been to focus on the oddities of the other couple, by having them give out fake restaurants, bars, addresses etc. to keep blowing C&M of, rather than immediately jump to the message that C&M are the problem (nb-Chandler's preliction for jokes has been so muted in recent years that its hard to buy it as a reason for annoying their plane-mates).

"Chris Bastian" wrote in message news:[email]...

*entire

he

Blink.

Actually, I do see your point, though I think the characters are behaving
acceptably for the perameters of a sitcom.  Possibly I'm so relieved at the
*improvement* for Monica and Ross that I'm willing to overlook some smaller
problems.   She is still a harpy, but last night I didn't want to throw
things at her.  As for Ross...Laurie is right; in previous seasons, these
writers would have had Ross leave the videotape running on purpose, forced
all the others to watch it, and then sneered at Rachel for being proved
wrong.  This was much more believable and much more palatable.   In the case
of Ross' new attitude towards sex, I'd say he's just been hanging around
Joey too much and, after years of being ripped to shreds by women he's
deeply loved, has opted to give his heart out a little less easily, and to
regard sex more as recreation.  It may be a regrettable decision, but *that*
is a change in Ross I don't find unbelievable, over the top, or illogical.

\Ross for example, was originally a nice guy that

Well, he's had a dry spell. Sometimes he does better than this. On the other hand, he's NEVER been a chick magnet.

or 2) he's so shallow that his primary

Too much time with Joey, as I said?

And

True. But she was better last night than she has been.

A better story line would have been

Maybe they should have saved this storyline for another episode. They really didn't have enough time to explore that fully in this episode. The R/R/J storyline was the center of the show, it should have been, it was well done, and it wouldn't have been as effective if the gang had not spent the entire episode together. That was one of the really good things about this episode; it wasn't splintered into a bunch of unrelated subplots.

Yeah, that's too bad. I still regard that as the single worst byproduct of the M&C romance, and what's really sad is that there is no good reason why she had to have that effect on him.

conrad habrahammyalt.tv.friends

In article , [email] says...

Regrettable! I should think so!

Look, Ross used to stand for something. His was the only sexlessness on Fs that was clearly founded on principle. It was his high ground placed in relation to the excesses of J and M and C (and P!) that grounded the show and kept a clear focus on the show's overall anti-sex message. And now it's all gone to hell hasn't it!

This may be my last season, period. Bless us all.

Conrad

Finished Day 22 - staying true!

40/40 - A Pure Start - www.4040club.com

  • Please remove the obvious anti-span in my email to reply.
abrahammyconrad halt.tv.friends

"conrad h" wrote in message news:[email]...

Yes, it has all gone to hell. Conrad, there is nobody on this board more critical of the decision to make Ross as randy as all the rest as I am. That distinction used to be what made him a more interesting character, and basically they lost a lot of options with him when they made him a pale and crazy shadow of Joey and Chandler's worst flaws instead. But, in terms of whether or not Ross' decline into the sexual revolution is *believable*, yes, I can buy that. He's been hanging around Joey for eight years, and your friends frequently affect your values. It's far less out there than some of the other crap they've done to him.

Anonymousabrahammyalt.tv.friends

I guess hell has probably frozen over, because I agree with a lot of what you said. (Especially with you admitting that you are an obnoxious fan.)

I think the Chandler & Monica storyline was weak out of necessity, as the episode required the first half for Joey to set up the punchline with his romantic story, and the second half was needed to see the tape and deliver the punchline. And you HAD to have known that story would somehow figure into the tape, otherwise I don't think they would have spent 7 minutes on Ross and Joey talking about it.

I glad they wrote all of the characters in a *smarter* fashion this time, and didn't resort to them being immature to get an easy laugh. Joey, Rachel, and Ross clearly controlled the main parts of this show, and I've always thought it would be an interesting triangle to develop, now with Mondler off doing couple things, and Phoebe apparently not being given any storyline by the writers. TVGuide said in it's preview for the season that there would be a storyline where Joey has trouble dealing with a pregnant roommate, which suggests there will be some tension there between the two eventually.

While it's probably unrealistic of anything happening between them, don't be surprised to see Joey play a major role in this pregnancy. Otherwise, we might as well just call this show "Couples".

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

abrahammyAnonymousalt.tv.friends

"Anonymous" wrote in message news:[email]...

I am sorry you are so bitter, Mr. Johnson Walker. I think I've been trying very hard to be very balanced and reasonable in my comments. We do disagree, and that is not in and of itself a bad thing. My "obnoxious fan" comment was tongue-in-cheek, noting your idea that currently *anybody* who enjoys R&R and says so must be offensive by definition. I will continue to try to be civil to you, and you may continue to be nasty and insulting if that is what makes you happy, but I really wish you'd lighten up. It's a whole lot more interesting to talk to you when you put the attitude away.

Absolutely right. Which leads to the most important consideration in the analysis of this show. *Any* direction they take will probably work very well as long as they focus on writing the characters - and ALL the characters - carefully, with interest in their long-term value, and don't sacrifice laughs in the process.

Joey is the most consistently effective character. This could be good.

Joey was the funniest character in Season Five by his reactions to M&C's deceptions. Same thing could well happen here

Anonymousabrahammyalt.tv.friends

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

I'm sorry. My comment was also meant to be tongue-in-cheek. :)

Didn't mean to offend you by it. I will try to be civil to you as well, as you are one of the few here who I can have an intellectual discussion with about the show.

I also think each of the actors are starting to enjoy their roles more, and it is clearly coming out in the acting. I think the good scripts so far this year have been a major factor in the improved acting. Did anyone else notice that this show was written by one of the executive producers of the show?

Joey is a good middleman, no doubt. But I'm hoping he gets a little more directly involved than, for instance, providing the romantic story to hook up Ross and Rachel. Only time will tell.

abrahammyAnonymousalt.tv.friends

"Anonymous" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

trying

fan"

who

to

if

a

away.

Oops! Sorry! I didn't realize you'd shifted gears with me! I will be more than happy to follow suit.

Thank you much. I smile at the idea of having an intellectual conversation about a sitcom, but for some reason I've been trying to do it for years!

the

very

don't

Yes, that is clearly the case. Maybe that's why all of a sudden Crane is pushing for another season - his actors like their work again.

The senior writing staff have been given the title of executive producers for several years now - I think because they are frequently also the show runners and have duties beyond just writing. Silveri is one of their long time staff.

I just hope they write it well. One thing I've noticed; I've seen a number of people who didn't like last episode, who blamed R&R, who liked this one better. In our discussion of folks who are overly fond of R&R episodes in a knee-jerk fashion, vs. folks who cringe at the idea of their being together, I think the BIGGEST faction is probably behind door number three - folks who don't care as long as the show is good. Last night, the show was good.

TriggerAnonymousalt.tv.friends

this is probably why the cast has said that they will come back for another season. Someone has already stated that they will return for a ninth season.

Sofyaabrahammyalt.tv.friends

Great evaluation! Such vocabulary and writting critiques!! One of the best evaluations i've read, and i dont' usually read the evaluations because I find them boring and they just summarize the episode. Good job Abrahammy.

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:DzMz7.1468$[email]...

week

from

stories

fit

*entire

demeaned

see

the

is

we

Joey

father

It

The

second

a

p r i y aabrahammyalt.tv.friends

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

He let you watch Friends while he could have been Survivor premier (ugh), well that was nice of him.

Yes, the western europe bit was coined into the plot very nicely. I laughed out loud so many times. Joey was brilliant.

The R&R story is shaping nicely isn't it. It keeps getting with each new episode.

Joey was hilarious. Ken Adams! *raises hand* LOL

Monica wasn't as bad as she was in 802 and 803 but still not liking what I see. But I wasn't so bothered with C&M's plot as the main story was so good, it was easy to dismiss the dull subplot.

Like the others have mentioned, you write excellents reviews Claire! They are very insightful and are an interesting read.

Priya

Lewis NguyenTEWhomealt.tv.friends

TEWhome wrote in message news:aEKz7.393932$[email]...

it

806

I must agree. I watched it on tape after the baseball game, and frankly, I'm in a pissed off mood and I wasn't in a mood to watch anything related to New York (the Mariners will come back, dammit), but damn, what an impressive episode!

Lewis.

RMTEWhomealt.tv.friends

"TEWhome" wrote in message news:aEKz7.393932$[email]...

it

806

Rachel said during the show that the encounter with Ross took place six weeks earlier. Also, since Monica and Chandler have just returned from their wedding, the continuity suggests that the wedding couldn't have taken place five months ago. Even though we "saw" the wedding in May, it's probably easier to assume they actually got married in late August.

There was a similar problem on X-Files, where Scully was pregnant for a full year...

MouseRMalt.tv.friends

spoiler space

"RM" wrote in message news:zBVz7.1648$[email]...

all

(one

taken

But we were told in a couple of episodes last year that the wedding would be in mid-May (show time). For instance, in TOW the Cheap Wedding Dress, Monica tells the other girl that her wedding will be on May 15th. The other girl uses that information to book the band Chandler wanted in order to force Monica to give her the dress they both liked.

full

And Phoebe was only pregnant for about 3 months in show time....

Perhaps Rachel will have a longer pregnancy to make up for it.

TEWhomeMousealt.tv.friends

Exactly...that's what I'm saying that M and C said last season the wedding was in May, so technically, Rach should have been pregnant in April, but what I'm saying is that we haven't seen any signs yet to break this pattern..so far it appears that the Friends characters are still in June time, now 806 is the Halloween ep and if Rach isn't showing by then, cause this has to be in Oct., then that means the writers are breaking the time sequence and following the pregnancy throughout the whole season...to be correct, they should catch up to time in 806 and have Rachel in her second trimester, and deliver the baby in February. And Phoebe was pregnant for a whole nine months on the show, cause LK was pregnant in real life. She got preggers in the middle of season 4 (January of something) and had the baby in September or October of season 5. "Mouse" wrote in message news:B%Xz7.15510$%[email]...

from

other

TriggerTEWhomealt.tv.friends

TEWhome wrote in message news:jdYz7.398330$[email]...

a

got

They are going to skip a few months of Rachel's pregnancy so that she will have the baby around February. The producers have already said this. They said that she will be showing in about November. Obviously if this is true then For every one week between shows (for us) would have to be about 2-3 weeks Friends time. It is a good idea for them to skip a few months of Rachel's pregnancy because not much happens in the first 3-4 months anyways. This way the baby's birth will in fact be a little more than 9 months from when she got pregnant in May.

TEWhomeTriggeralt.tv.friends

I know, but don't you think if they were going to have her skip up a few months so she was like six months pregnant in November that she would be showing this much on Halloween (806 is TOW Halloween Party) and if you look at the pics on NBCMV, it doesn't look like she's showing, unless I just can't tell. But it would make sense to me to do what you said, have the characters jump ahead a few months in November so she can have the baby in Feb, but if she isn't showing by Halloween, it doesn't look like they will be making her delivery in February, but most likely on the season finale, which I think is stupid.

"Trigger" wrote in message news:7KZz7.1785$[email]...

wedding

cause

time

second

for

baby

They

true

anyways.

MouseTEWhomealt.tv.friends

a

"TEWhome" wrote in message news:jdYz7.398330$[email]...

got

I think we might be using different terms for the same thing. When I say "show time" I mean the amount of time which passes on the show. "Real time" means time that passes in real life. A week may pass between episodes being shown, but the "show time" between episodes can be anywhere from seconds to months.

Phoebe was pregnant for about 9 months in "real time", but she appears to have only been pregnant about 3 months in "show time".

Phoebe gets pregnant the day the girls lose the apartment to the guys during the trivia game. The next show begins with the M&R still having not unpacked in the boy's apartment. Monica spends a few days getting the place in order (does not sleep for 48 hours) during which Chandler breaks up with his girlfriend. The next show begins with Chandler in his sweats mourning his latest relationship disaster and Monica points out it has been two days since he broke up with Cathy. Joey goes away for three days of fishing and comes back. Rachel needs to find somebody to take Emily to a show and only one who can make it is Ross (Joey smells, Chandler is depressed, Phoebe has night sickness, Monica has to work). Emily and Ross fall in love that night and 72 days later, Ross sends her a rose for "every day he has known and loved her". A few days later, Phoebe gives birth.

So, Phoebe was pregnant a few weeks before Ross and Emily meet. R&E's courtship leading to marriage lasts just under 72 days and then Phoebe gives birth a few days later. Her pregnancy appears to have lasted less than three months in "show time".

Adam WeishauptTEWhomealt.tv.friends

Technically, yes, but because of how slim Rachel is, most woman of Rachel's stature won't start showing until their sixth month. And if you take a very close look, there is a slight bulge in Rachel's stomach.

In article , TEWhome says...

Isn't that just kick you in the crotch, spit on your neck fantastic? - Rachel Greene

mondlerbing wrote in message news:oL_z7.35774$[email]...

Rachel's

very

You can be not showing one month and the next month be showing. it can go that fast. it usually goes in spurts. you can be the same size for a month a couple of months and then all of the sudden be bigger!

Lora JTEWhomealt.tv.friends

Cool! Monica and Chandler got a TIVO. And it appears they have the good Sony kind where you can record two things at once. So, they won't ever have to decide which to tape, Friends or Survivor. They can do both. ;)

I really liked this episode. I have been so happy with this season so far. The one thing that got me down is that Chandler said some really amazingly sweet and romantic stuff to Monica, and then she ruins the moment by making the necklace comment. Ugh! I gues that is season 6 - present Monica. Earlier Monica would have melted like butter.

Love my TIVO!!!!!

Lora

p r i y aLora Jalt.tv.friends

Spoiler space Lora J wrote in message news:...

True but after 803, I have pretty much resigned myself to watching this Monica without getting my bp up. On the plus side, she wasn't as bad as she was in the last two episodes. :)

Priya

Triggerp r i y aalt.tv.friends

p r i y a wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

I agree Priya...... I like the Monica they showed in 804.. Funny lines without the annoying factor