!!Spoiler SpaceRe: A male point of view on the season finale

Don't get me confused with this.. I left because I couldn't stand the constant pickiness and criticalness of this group. I cam back to see how much you guys would trash a good episode. I was right.. you did.

~Ashley*

Truth hurts.

On Tue, 23 May 2000 02:23:31 GMT, Mislead wrote:

I agree with Ashley. I've considered leaving myself.

~Ariel
-------------------------------
"Money isn't everything, but it's right up there with oxygen"

"Betre b�r du ber kje i bakken enn mannevit mykje" - H�vam�l

truth? Maybe in YOUR eyes it's truth. Sure the glass is half empty...

I've considered leaving myself because everyone on this group lately seems to be so pessismestic and it seems more like the Friends Hate group.. anyone that has liked the show lately has left because of this so the opinions seemed to be squewed.

~Act

They're not pessimistic, they're realistic. ;) (bet you've never heard *that* before)

Echoing others statements about how much you like something gets old rather quickly. When you have known something for a long time you tend to start caring about it. When that thing is in trouble, you will do your best to help it. With this show you can't do anything but give yourself peace of mind by trying to divulge why.

If you leave every place that has opinions that differ from yours, you will forever be a nomad.

But its the balance I wouldn't mind if it was ohh lets say 25% of the posts but its well over half(about %80), taht's what bothers me, that's all I hear..

IF you leave every place where 90% of the people have different views and constantly bicker about every little thing then you will be more sane.

~Act

this he wrote/she wrote stuff gets annoying

When I came to see what people thought of the finale. It was mostly "reviews" like this:

	Oh I loved this episode so much!  It was so funny!
	I'm so happy to see Chandler and Monica finally get engaged!
	When that scene started, I just cried my eyes out!

Now thats all *I* heard. The reviews that looked at more than a favourite couple's predictable happy ending were the ones that interested me.

Who wants to be sane? It's very dull, like a place where everyone agrees on everything. I responded to the original post because Ashley said that she came back to check if people didn't like this episode that she liked. This implies that she left because her views differed from others views on this NG. Not a very good reason.

Besides, what would you do without the "bickering"?[1] Id you don't come here to discuss/argue/debate about your show, why are you here? How many times would you be able to name off your fav episodes or lines or cutesy romantic scenes before getting bored?

pssst, want to know a secret?

It's a pretty big secret

It's really big

The show has changed. Not just a drop in quality but a change in the whole dynamic. It used to be Joey and Chandler, now it's Joey & Ross. It used to be Ross & Rachel, now it's Chandler & Monica. This isn't just a matter of which couple gets to be happy. The roles they play have actually changed.

Ross and Chandler is the most obvious switch. Ross used to be the "straight man", now he is a cartoon character. Chandler used to be a wise-cracking loser, now he is "Mondler" as some people say. I know you like Chandler & Monica, but I think you can agree with me when I say that they suited their old roles *much* better, right?

Rachel & Monica have also exchanged places. Monica used to be a fairly normal type person, the "straight woman". Now she insists on not being sick and stops at nothing to get her boyfriend to sleep with her when she is like this. Rachel was (don't want to say ditzy since that is a Phoebe thing so) a twit. She has grown beyond that and is now this self-reliant career driven woman. She is the stable one now.[2] I also believe the old way was better here too. Do you?

Joey & Phoebe haven't switched places. (thank god) They've just gotten dumber and weirder. It has worked for Joey because MLB can play the dumb and good looking guy better than I can play myself. He is almost always funny and that is hard to do with the stuff he gets. (I LMAO at that hand twin thing, even though it was so painfully idiotic) Phoebe isn't quite as malleable when it comes to this. She has gotten so weird that she isn't as funny anymore, she is just... weird.

You can attribute the changes in Rachel & Chandler to growth, but it's really not that at all. The writers believe that this new way of writing the characters is funnier, so BOOM! they changed. They ran out of ideas for the old characters so they changed them until ideas came more easily.

I've just thrown my views out there, people can ignore them and complain about me being over critical or tell me why I'm wrong. Who knows? You might even make me change my mind.

[1] The only thing that looks like bickering right now is that spoiler police thing, and it seems to have been resolved.

[2] The new Rachel is pretty good though. I said before that I wont comment on acting. That said, I think this has to do with JA's acting ability more than anything. She is the only one who has pulled off playing both the old and the new version of her character. IMHO

Yea that was pleasing, until the regular people on here got a hold of htem.

How many times can you debate the same reasons why you don't like the show over and over again before you get bored and sick of it.

How many times do I have to hear this?

a secret?

How long have you been here?

THIS is what I have been looking for something that someone actually LIKED. Something DIFFERENT.

~aCT

Activia wrote:

Probably as long as the show keeps doing the things that we wish it wouldn't do.

This is a HUGE issue for many people and that's your only response? These actors were cast to play certain roles because that's what they do best. Now we have them playing characters that they aren't as strong at. This cannot just be glossed over and thrown into the "well, you should look at the good things about the show" file. The reason why many of us are frustrated and speak about it is because the problems could be fixed. Ross doesn't HAVE to be immature and seem mental. Monica doesn't HAVE to be a shrew. Chandler doesn't HAVE to lose much of his sense of humor. The show proved it could be successful with the characters that were originally intended so it stands to reason that if they went back to how they once were, the quality of the show would increase again.

I thought Matt LeBlance and David Schwimmer were able to carry the season. I thought they were both very good. There, something positive.

IT seemed that in the last episodes of the season things were getting better..

I am just sick of hearing the same thing over and over that's all! That's what bothers me that's why that's all I said.

amazing..nice start could you elaborate?

~Act

Activia wrote:

Why be condescending? It just makes people want to not be positive.

I've said in earlier posts why I've found MLB and DS to be very good this season. I'm not going to start over again in this thread.

Ok I wasnt applying this to you directly. But this is how I feel things are going in this newsgroup. Ok so they may mention that they thought it was funny and then start going on and on why they didn't like it and not say what they thought was funny. I wasn't trying to be condescending, it was late and I was getting grouchy lol

I'm more using you as a "case" I dont remember your exact posts as I've said before. But the majority don't elaborate on waht they like but only what they don't like.

~Act

Activia wrote:

The thing is that many times I would throw out thoughts on episodes in the form of rhetorical questions. Some negative, some positive. When people reply to certain points, I'll then reply. What happens is that more people want to discuss what can be done to improve the show so we talk about the negatives. If someone replies to a positive point I make, I'll reply back and start a discussion on that. It all comes down to what hits a nerve. You can't make people decide what hits a nerve.

Activia wrote:

We honestly don't want to rain on your parade C & M fans.  I know it must
seem like that.  I personally didn't enjoy the finale too much but right now
I guess it's all been said.   I enjoy reading the discussions on this group
and the debates over the show.  And yes, this is still my favorite show.
 I love watching these actors do their work.   The writing is another thing.
It's hard being a  R & R fan these days.  But it also goes beyond just that.
Most likely the writers don't read these newsgroups but opinions must be
put out there somehow.  How else can we express ourselves regarding this
show?   I think we should make our views known loud and clear even
though TPTB aren't listening.  Maybe somehow, someday someone will
care why the ratings have dropped and will investigate why.  Maybe
someday someone with the show will care what is being said.  In the
meantime, we will vent our frustrations and satisfactions.  And I do feel
better knowing other people feel the same as I do.

Laurie

Activia wrote:

The whole thing is subjective. Many people liked the episode and they were able to find reasons to. Others didn't enjoy it as much and had reasons for that too. In all honesty, a C&M fan is probably going to enjoy this episode much more than someone who doesn't have a vested interest in them. They had a juicy storyline while the others were very much background characters to their relationship. For Moron Cow to say that people "trashed" a good episode because she found it good is ludicrous because there are obvious reasons why non C&M fans wouldn't enjoy it as much.

Just because someone doesn't praise everything that is thrown in front of them doesn't mean they're not a fan. It means they care a lot about the show and see the problems which exist in it. Some people have problems with the direction of the show and certain characters and it's only logical that they come here and voice those concerns instead of lying to themselves and saying they love every episode no matter what. I wish I could sit down and just watch the episode without being critical of it, but I can't. Many of the things which made me love this show, aren't present as much as they used to be. My standards are pretty high when it comes to this show and I want to see it improve, but I'm not going to go blind to the fact that it's not the same quality as it once was.

Jay

Like I Said, I dont mind this sometimes but it feels like all you do is pick out hte bad things, why not pick out the things you liked in the episode too..

~Act

Activia wrote:

If you'll remember, I found the finale to be a pretty good episode. I enjoyed it at least as much as I could any C&M driven story. I said I thought it was funny even if all the storylines weren't great.

Alright, I'll go with this. So from there what did you talk about? You tallked about the storylines that weren't so great. and no so much about what was funny? Are you starting to see?

~Act

Activia wrote:

Once again, you're being condescending.

What I found good about this episode was the humor in some parts. I don't remember the exact jokes, only that I laughed. I think the Ross/Elizabeth stuff was funny and Rachel's talk to the man she was trying to get to buy the yacht were funny. What stuck with me about the episode was the backup plan, which I hated the idea of, and the C&M plot, which I found contrived, but alright for what it was worth. Therefore, those are the things I talked about. If something hits a chord with me, I'll write about it. Otherwise I won't.

yea because my top blew and I was just was getting tired or it so I juste let it out. I'm sorry I didn't mean it.

I just wish you(not nessessarily you in this case but others) could pick out mroe then the most signifgant thing in teh episode and talk about all aspects with elaboration, it helps the balancing and then doenst feel so much like its a the what I hate about friends group.

~Act

activia: I think you have summed up the group in, well more than two words, but well done anyway ows

what did I write in that message? LOL sorry I don't get my own posts and don't remember what I said in each.

~Act