Ouch!

Got this off Yahoo!

• E.R.
• Millionaire-Sun
• Millionaire-Wed
• NFL Monday Night Football
• Friends
• Everybody Loves Raymond
• Practice, The
• Law and Order
• West Wing
• Will & Grace

What the hell went on here?

nbcz

In article ,

It's still the number 1 comedy, though. If it's for this past week, the Millionaire thing could be because it was Celebrity Millionaire.

Monana Geller wrote in message news:8v9eib$t47$[email]...

Yep, it was Celebrity Millionaire. Which teams were playing Monday night?

Lewis.

Still the #1 comedy..no worries.

====== es*o*ter*ic b : of or relating to knowledge that is restricted to a small group

2 a : limited to a small circle

EsotericGrrrl wrote:

It's the most "mainstream" comedy. It's far(very far) from being the best sitcom on television with respect to comedy, characters, and quality. I can think of at least 2 other sitcoms right now that kicks this show's ass in just about every characteristic that is used to measure a quality sitcom.

People still watch it because it's "Friends". It's one of the most media-hyped sitcoms containing some of the most media-hyped stars around.

I've honestly only seen about 4 or 5 episodes of this current season. This is coming from a person who used to tape every single episode because I loved this show so much. I tuned in this season hoping things would get better(i.e. better than last season).

Didn't happen. What did happen was that I realized a few things. I realized:

1. Monica needs to get her mouth taped shut so she can't whine, screech and act like the world revolves around her and her engagment.

2.  Chandler has been ruined.  I've heard the old "He's more mature now"
opinion
     before and while that *is* true, it doesn't make up or compensate
for the fact that
     he's become the least compelling character in the show.  The bottom
line
     is that he's just plain boring.  You can put any sugarcoated label
you
     want on it to make it seem like it's something other than what it
really
     is(i.e. "He's more mature now"), but it's just covering up what's
really there
     which is...................not a whole lot.

3.  Ross and Rachel are not people anymore.  They are puppets that the
     the writers make do silly, ridiculous things that most of the time,
isn't even
     funny.  If it was funny then maybe I could tolerate it.  This, in
my opinion,
     is probably the most shameful things about this show.  They've
taken
     a storyline that was so emotionally charged, significant, and
successful and
     have come to now treat it as a complete joke as if it was this
silly,
     insignificant thing that happened in the past.  It kind of
indicates that the
     writers don't have a whole lot of respect for the Ross and Rachel
characters.

4.  And lastly, I've realized that I've forgotten who those other two
are.
     I'm talking about the spacy blonde girl and the italian guy.
     Maybe it's because their characters have been made to seem so
     insignificant that I don't notice them.

I apologize if this comes across as a rant, it wasn't my intentions. It just bothers the hell out of me that a show that used to be so damn good(i.e. Seasons 1, 2, 3, 5) has sunk to where it is now.

Chris

I'm a big Friends fan, but I honestly think that season 6 was better than season 1 and much of season 2. I thought the best episodes came from Seasons 3-5, with 5 being the best. So far, some season 7 episodes have been great/good (ie 703, 706, 707) while others have been OK (701, 702, 705) and only one (704) has been really BAD.

I still think one of the funniest parts of season 7 was the Joey being 19 bit. It still cracks me up!

703 "Phoebe's Cookies" was definately all-star calibre material. I honestly didn't think it would be that good, but it was. I think it could be ranked up there with episodes like TOW Ross' Sandwich.

Just My Opinion

nbcz

Can we have one thread without rants about how much the show sucks all the time? Geez, some of us still like it.

====== es*o*ter*ic b : of or relating to knowledge that is restricted to a small group

2 a : limited to a small circle

In article , nbc101 wrote:

Every time I see this episode it just gets funnier & funnier.

Tennant

I agree with you a little bit. It is true that the show is going down, but I think there's still some hope. I thought last week's episode was funny!

I just hope Chandler wakes up, Monica shuts up or talks *quiter* (I didn't like that ep where Chandler and Mon fight with Janine, or whatever her name was, and she brings up that Monica's loud, because ever since, Monica *is* loud), Ross and Rach stop doing stupid things (especially Ross), and Phoebe is actully on the show. I didn't forget Joey, but he is doing pretty good. So I hope it gets better this season, especially Mon and Chandler, 'cause they are the center of the show (and my favorites too) but the writters are ruining their characters!!! So I'm just crossing my fingers and watching... So far it's going pretty well, l liked last weeks ep. "Chris" wrote in message news:[email]...

EsotericGrrrl wrote:

It's the most "mainstream" comedy. It's far(very far) from being the best sitcom on television with respect to comedy, characters, and quality. I can think of at least 2 other sitcoms right now that kicks this show's ass in just about every characteristic that is used to measure a quality sitcom.

People still watch it because it's "Friends". It's one of the most media-hyped sitcoms containing some of the most media-hyped stars around.

I've honestly only seen about 4 or 5 episodes of this current season. This is coming from a person who used to tape every single episode because I loved this show so much. I tuned in this season hoping things would get better(i.e. better than last season).

Didn't happen. What did happen was that I realized a few things. I realized:

• Monica needs to get her mouth taped shut so she can't whine, screech and act like the world revolves around her and her engagment.

  2.  Chandler has been ruined.  I've heard the old "He's more mature now"
  opinion
       before and while that *is* true, it doesn't make up or compensate
  for the fact that
       he's become the least compelling character in the show.  The bottom
  line
       is that he's just plain boring.  You can put any sugarcoated label
  you
       want on it to make it seem like it's something other than what it
  really
       is(i.e. "He's more mature now"), but it's just covering up what's
  really there
       which is...................not a whole lot.

  3.  Ross and Rachel are not people anymore.  They are puppets that the
       the writers make do silly, ridiculous things that most of the time,
  isn't even
       funny.  If it was funny then maybe I could tolerate it.  This, in
  my opinion,
       is probably the most shameful things about this show.  They've
  taken
       a storyline that was so emotionally charged, significant, and
  successful and
       have come to now treat it as a complete joke as if it was this
  silly,
       insignificant thing that happened in the past.  It kind of
  indicates that the
       writers don't have a whole lot of respect for the Ross and Rachel
  characters.

  4.  And lastly, I've realized that I've forgotten who those other two
  are.
       I'm talking about the spacy blonde girl and the italian guy.
       Maybe it's because their characters have been made to seem so
       insignificant that I don't notice them.

I apologize if this comes across as a rant, it wasn't my intentions. It just bothers the hell out of me that a show that used to be so damn good(i.e. Seasons 1, 2, 3, 5) has sunk to where it is now.

Chris

But the world DOES revolve around her and her engagement!

In article , Chris wrote:

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. However I've snipped the rest of what you said because I disagreed with every single word.

Have you SEEN the same Season 7 that I've seen?

I liked S6 a lot but I complained about screechy Monica, and I'm so glad that she doesn't screech now. Meanwhile Rachel & Joey have been wonderful together, Chandler is occasionally funny, and Ross & Phoebe sparkle.

If you don't mind me saying so Chris, I guess that your complaints boil down to a complaint that Ross & Rachel aren't an item any more. :)

Tennant

I disagree. He makes some valid points. Ross and Rachel aren't characters anymore. They were built around each other in the first season, and now that they have stories that are not even close to each other, they seem empty. Well, um, THEY ARE empty. Granted, I've enjoyed most of Season 7 so far, but the characters of Ross and Rachel suck.

Rachel and Ross are both horny, pathetic losers. I won't go into details because I don't wanna leave space. They're both very sad people. Has this been a result of them not being together? Possibly. But the writers aren't helping any. Phoebe's also a loser, and Joey...well, Joey comes out of this unscathed.

Unfortunately, Chandler does not. He has become funnier lately, but he still is the most boring, whipped smart-ass I've ever seen.

Monica...oh, poor Mon. You were so great in the beginning, then the writers turned you into a screeching maniac. Well, you've toned down, but you're still a shell of what you used to be.

I wish the writers would look at the show before the fifth season, and notice that there WAS some depth to them.

In article , [email] (Mike the Real American Hero) wrote:

This is what I said, most of these complaints boil down to Ross & Rachel not being an item any more. They're still rounded characters, but apart.

Again, this is a valid complaint about most of Season SIX.

As soon as Season SEVEN began she was not screechy at all.

Tennant

I don't think you quite understand. If they were the same kind of people they were a few years ago, I wouldn't give a damn if they were together or not. Unfortunately, we have "Red" Ross "Mental" Geller who we are supposed to believe actually won the heart of a ditzy, unprofessional, horny woman by the name of Rachel Green. It doesn't make sense. Are the characters rounded? Sure. Are they pathetic? Again, sure.

The only non-pathetic characters the writers will consider to write are Chandler and Monica. The same writing that turned Mondler into a monster has turned the rest of the characters into pathetic losers, who do goofy things while the people in apartment 20 plan their life together.

In article , [email] (Mike the Real American Hero) wrote:

No I don't. It seems to me that you are arguing against yourself.

Tennant

Tennant, what I'm trying to say is that the characters are rounded, but what they've used to fill the space left by no R&R relationship is crap. I know you're a die-hard C&M fan, and you probably jump for joy at the thought of them spending all of eternity together, no matter what the cost. Even if the cost is ruining the characters of Ross and Rachel and fading into oblivion (or into idiocy) the characters of Joey and Phoebe.

If R&R were still normal people, I would not have a problem with them being apart. This has nothing to do with them as a couple. Did I enjoy them as a couple? God, yes. That's what hooked me onto the show. And as someone previously said, if I was bitching because R&R weren't together, why would I still be watching? It's obvious that the current writers feel that R&R was a complete joke--I guess it's also funny to them that if it wasn't for the amazing writers before their lackluster stint who created the hands-down most-compelling (you can by no stretch of the imagination call C&M "compelling"...I don't find it compelling to watch Chandler screw up and apologize) relationship on "Friends," they wouldn't have jobs today. The way they handle R&R's past is ridiculous. If there is no R&R on the horizon, fine. Drop it. Don't string us along or go into the past and totally make it seem worthless as they did in 624 and 701. Coincidentally, these episodes had large C&M stories. Huh.

In article , [email] (Mike the Real American Hero) wrote:

I keep saying that it's with C&M that I have the most doubts this year.

Ross and Rachel are doing just fine, he with Phoebe, and she with Joey.

They're just long past their use-by date.

Tennant

That's not the issue. If the writers don't wanna write about R&R anymore, fine. But don't go and make fun of the relationship and call it a joke. I don't think "TO The Morning After" was a joke, and neither did Ross and Rachel at the time, but, now that they have the new green writers there, anything and everything is game for a joke. It just shows how far down in quality the show has gone.

Mike wrote:

Please do not misquote me. That was *you* who mentioned the word "joke".

"They're just long past their use-by date" was not a joke, but an honest appraisal of the situation in a succinct phrase.

Tennant

Tennant Stuart wrote:

Actually Tennant, I don't think he was referring to you. I think he was referring to the writers making fun of the relationship and calling it a joke. I could be

wrong but that's how it came across to me.

Chris

Thanks, Chris. That's what I was referring to.

In article , [email] (Mike the Real American Hero) wrote:

Okay. Sorry, Mike. :)

Tennant

In article , Chris wrote:

Oh. Thanks Chris. If you're right, then I withdraw my remarks.

Tennant

Tennant Stuart wrote:

I was about to ask you the same thing.

Sorry Tennant but unfortunately you guessed dead wrong. Quite honestly, I really could care less whether they are together or not. While it's no secret that I have always preferred R&R over C&M, they were never the main reason why I watched this show. Even if they were together right now, I don't think the show would be any better.

Chris

In article , Chris wrote:

Well, ONE of us has seen a whole different S7 it seems...

That's what you say, yet you admit you're a R&R fan. Never mind.

Tennant

Tennant Stuart wrote:

Tennant, give me a little more credit than that. I could just as easily say that all your good comments about the show boil down to the fact that C&M are together; not taking into account anything else. Would that be a fair statment? No it wouldn't.

Ross and Rachel haven't been together for 4 years. If I only watched this show because of them, don't you think I would have stopped watching a long time ago? The fact that I'm still here having this conversation is proof that there are so many other aspects of the show that matter to me besides the R&R relationship. So please don't *write off* my dissapointment in the show by packaging it up in a pretty box with a green ribbon and labeling it "R&R supporter" because trust me that's not what it is.

Chris

In article , Chris wrote:

Not really, because it's C&M that I've been complaining about, and I did mention that Chandler was only occasionally funny. My main point is that Monica is no longer screechy, and definitely not more than last season.

Ross & Rachel broke up 3� years ago, got back together again 3 years ago & split up again, he said her name at the wedding 2 years ago, and he gave up his wife for her 1� years ago, and *married*her* a year ago, and they were gently kicking each other � a year ago, and became backup partners in the last finale. It all comes to nothing of course, but that is why avid R&R fans are still watching. Anyway, I did say it was just a matter of taste.

Tennant

On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:55:53 GMT, Chris wrote:

Yep. So if it sucks so much, how come so many people watch it?

This season has been *much* better than season 6. (And this is coming from a person who actually enjoyed most of the episodes in season 6.)

Pardon me? She's so nice nowadays! She isn't whining at all! Take a look at 703, 705 and the lovely 706 if you don't believe me. She's her old pleasant self in these episodes.

Actually, I'm one of those who have enjoyed Chandler this season the most, so I don't see the need to comment on this one. :)

They may not have had so much material as the rest of them, but I think we've seen some significant improvement the last couple of episodes.

I've seen 701-706 so far, and even though there was a weak episode (705, blah, blah...), I think the show is still great.

They could have improved one storyline in particular (I'm not going to say what due to the spoiler material), but it has to do with the title of episode 704, but other than that, I've really, really enjoyed the season so far. My favourite episodes are 703 and 706 (I was practically laughing the whole time), so I'm still an optimist. :)

Many people complain a lot about the new episodes, but I think it has so far been better than season 6 in most respects. Monica has become much kinder than before. Just watch the ends of 702 and 706 and you'll see what I'm talking about. Even in 701 and 707 when she did get angry, it wasn't some kind of screechfest like it was in TOW The Last Night or TOW The Joke. Look at some of the great moments this season has offered so far:

701 - Joey as a 19 year old

702 - Chandler telling Monica his vision of the future

703 - Rachel taeching Joey to sail

704 - Chandler, Monica and Ross revealing secrets

705 - Phoebe and Ross dating the separated couple

706 - Joey and Ross and their "Naps"

707 - Ross' Book; Janice (enough said)

It hasn't been that bad, has it!

nbcz

In article , [email] wrote:

tuned

screech

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compensate

bottom

label

it

what's

intentions. It

2, 3,

In article , [email] (Marita) wrote:

Have you SEEN the same Season 7 that I have, Marita?????

Just kidding, apart from the fact that I rather enjoyed 705, I agreed with *everything* else you said. :)

I can understand people not liking Season 7, it's just a matter of taste after all, but how they say Monica is *more* screechy than Season 6?

Tennant

On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:58:23 GMT, Tennant Stuart wrote:

I believe so, yeah... :)

Thanks. I'm glad that somebody agrees with me and tries to stay positive. :) I'll try to comment on 705 in your thread about it. The thing that I found weird about that episode was that I kept waiting for the big laughs, but they never came.

I think it's a remarkable difference. She wasn't the "Monica" we know in e.g. 611, 613 and 619, but in season 7 she has been great.

Yeah, I agree with both of you. I have to admit Monica is a lot quieter this season, which I love, because when she doesn't screech, she has a very beatiful voice (*I* think). And although the first ep. of this season ( *I* thought) wans't *very* funny, and didn't have to much of a plot (or none at all) it's getting better. And I loved last Thurs. ep!!! Didn't anyone else think it was great? I was cracking up!!!!

"Marita" wrote in message news:[email]...

On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:37:54 -0800, "monSTAR" wrote:

I agree with you. As I've said earlier, my favourite episodes so far are 703 and 706. 701 wasn't the best episode ever, and neither was 702, because they were too focused on one storyline, but I still enjoyed them. 703 was hilarious, and 706 was pure "Friends", so I'm going to stay positive. :)

In article , [email] (Marita) wrote:

If you watch 303 "TOW the Jam", you'll find a Monica who is remarkably similar to the S7 Monica, especially in the style of her makeup.

Have you realised Marita, that exactly what I predicted is happening?

A year ago people were moaning about how bad Season 6 was, saying it was nowhere near as good as Season 5, and the show ought to be cancelled.

I pointed out that people said that Season 5 was nowhere near as good as Season 4, and that Season 4 was nowhere near as good as Season 3, and so on. Now all of a sudden Season 6 is much better, and Season 7 is crap.

Tennant

On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:04:06 GMT, Tennant Stuart wrote:

I agree, she's still a bit insecure, but due to certain events, she's more peaceful now, and her happiness has affected her character. In a very good way..

Yup. I thought this would happen, as well. It's easier to remember something good about the previous seasons and forget all the "horrors" we had back then.

BTW, I read this at www.gist.com today, and I just had to post it here. It's basically the same thing as we've been discussing here:

"R.I.P. : Which shows should be put to rest? <snip, other shows> As for Friends, last season was great. This season is so-so. Monica (Courteney Cox Arquette) and Chandler (Matthew Perry) have descended into dullsville, while Joey (Matt LeBlanc) and Phoebe's (Lisa Kudrow) oddball behavior isn't so charming anymore. Hate to say it, but maybe the Friends cast shouldn't have come back for a seventh season after all. <snip>

I started laughing when I read this. I don't think many people here on atf would agree that last season was "great" while this one is worse than s6.

Season 5 was terrific, and still is my favourite season.

I've never understood what was so terrible with season 4, because I really enjoyed that season. I enjoyed the drama between Chandler, Joey and Kathy, Ross and Emily's budding relationship, and the fact that R+R stopped bickering and became friends (the scene in the hallway in 416 TOW The Fake Party is one of my favourite R+R moments). Then there was the season finale, of course, which is the best season finale the show has ever produced IMO.

However, Monica didn't have much to do in this season, so I guess I understand why CCA said that she got a little bored back then. I mean, Phoebe had her pregnancy, Joey and Chandler fought over Kathy, and Ross and Rachel got involved with other people. Monica got a new job, cleaned the apartment and wanted her apartment back, but she had no major romantic storylines.

I think season 7 can turn out to be great. Maybe it's because I tend to focus on the good stuff, I don't know, but as long as I enjoy the show, I really don't care. :)

In article , [email] (Marita) wrote:

Yep.

That's so true. You should hear John Cleese complaining about the way fans reacted to Monty Python's Flying Circus. Every season was joyless rubbish until the next one began - and then became an instant classic.

It's the Instant Classic syndrome again.

It contains some very good episodes, and the best one ever, but for me the favourite is Season 2, which was brilliant until R&R were finally together when it dropped off. But I liked them all more than not.

In Britain the critics were all saying that Season 4 sucked, Friends had lost its early charm & should be cancelled - then news came out that the finale would be filmed in London, and interest soared. So much so that Brits who never watch American comedies tuned in, only to be horrified by the negative portrayal of the Walthams.

Good, but not a patch on poor li'l Rachel at the end of Season One. :)

For me, Season 4 was all about Chandler's love life, and the flat swap.

Yep. I quite like the episodes I don't like, if you see what I mean... :)

Tennant

On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 23:09:09 GMT, Tennant Stuart wrote:

Maybe it's the same thing as when old people complain about the horrible youngsters we have today... ;)

I agree. Season 2 has some fab episodes (204, 206, 207, 214 to mention a few), but I think my favourite is 222 TOW Two Parties. Actually, I'd put that on my top ten list if I were to make one. There are slapstick, emotions, furious parents, volleyball, flans... Well, everything. :)

Over here I've never heard one critic complaining about Friends. They complain about Ally McBeal, but the newspapers and magazines seemed to *love* e.g. the season 6 finale, that just aired.

Yeah, that was good, but I think all the characters had so much more to do in the season 4 finale, so I enjoyed London more. :)

Oh, so you didn't care much for Charlton Heston eating licorice? ;)

Oh, yeah, I feel the same way. There hasn't been one episode that I've hated completely.

In article , [email] (Marita) wrote:

It's one of my favourites too, except I hate the 43 seconds where poor Rachel shuttles between her parents.

Phoebe's underground railroad, Monica so prissy she's cute, Chandler has more girls than he can handle, and Joey joining the Motherkisser Club...

Who do you see for Chandler - Judy, Gloria, or Phoebe Abbott?

Yes, it's a strong confident farce that makes "Frasier" look amateur.

Scandinavia is just wonderful.

Yeah, but S1's finale turned a lot of regular viewers into *fans*.

Look at it this way - it was the same episode where Rachel played her hand along a beautiful girl's thigh, discovering she had the smoothest skin, while Phoebe & Monica preferred the spunky one...

Never mind Marita, I think we must be fans...

Tennant

On Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:05:04 GMT, Tennant Stuart wrote:

You feel very sorry for her when she runs back and forth like that, but then there is that beautiful scene between Chandler and Rachel in the hallway, where Chandler is typically immature at first, but then he realises that he's the only person who understands what she's going through.

Judy - eww, eww... Monica would kick him out of the apartment if that happened.

Phoebe Sr - Well, they both have, how shall I put it, so-called "boring" (in other words normal "office") jobs. They care about their friends, and they end up in bed together with their friends... So maybe these two could hit it off? They seem to have a few things in common.

Gloria - Joey would kill him. If Chandler said his mother was hot, that would be fine, but if he kissed her, I think Chandler would have a lot of explaining to do. And if you add the punishment for that on top of his ongoing punishment for Mary-Angela, Chandler would end up spending the rest of his life being punished by Joey.

LK should be glad she never got the part as Roz. :) And I bet she is so, too.

Takk. <g>

Well, if you asked the 1996 -version of me that same question, I would probably agree with you. :) I was hooked by then. Would R+R get together?? *crossing fingers*

Lol! Yeah, that's right. I guess that part means more to you than me...

Really? You think so, Tennant? ;)

In article , [email] (Marita) wrote:

Yeah, they're are so great in that scene. Notice that Ross is *not* jealous when he happens upon them embracing...

Would she? I'd have thought it would have been Ross who'd overreact.

Her day job might be boring, but after hours she makes erotiery...

Lol!!

We're only talking about kissing them you know, and since Ross & Joey are already club members, they ought to go easy on Chandler if he kissed Judy or Gloria. But maybe Phoebe would be his best bet.

Phew yes, and we should be glad too. Don't forget that the chemistry of the ensemble was magic from the start, and entirely fortuitous. Without Lisa Kudrow that might well have not happened.

V�r s� god.

I was so blown away. Until then, sitcoms did not have cliffhangers.

In 124 they didn't just dangle us, they pulled out a knife to twist it in our bellies - a knife called Julie...

Look at it this way, Chandler moved on to Phase Four!

Stands a chance, Marita. :)

Tennant

On Sat, 25 Nov 2000, Tennant Stuart stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

In contrast, it is one of my least liked episodes, along with TOW the Bullies & TOW the Cat.

I really don't like 'farce' episodes, they are SO predictable and unfunny.

In article , Paul Hyett wrote:

I usually dislike farce as well - unless they're very well done as that episode was. "Frasier" has bad farces much too often for comfort.

Tennant

Sorry to be a pain, but could someone explain the farce thing? I'm not really aware of this concept. <posh mode off> how was 222 a farce?

In article , [email] (Toni Perry If only) wrote:

A farce is a style of visual comedy that nearly always has characters running in & out of rooms with lots of doors opening & closing, people pretending to be other people, embarrassing secrets to be concealed & uncovered, or women in their undies & men with their trousers down.

Or just about every other episode of "Frasier"...

Tennant

oh right! I see, I think

In article , [email] (Toni Perry If only) wrote:

You're welcome.

I was being a bit hard on "Frasier" actually.

Tennant

I must say I thought the 2nd season was so much better than the 6th.

As for the 7th seson, it has been good. My fav episode so far has been 706 TOW The Nap Partners. That was a hilarious episode. For me, the worst episode this season has been 707 TOW Ross' Library Book. That was horrible, I give it 5.5/10.

Even though Friends was 5th in ratings last wek, it was still the No. 1 comedy.

- Dhar "I take no credit and I take no blame."

Marita wrote in message news:[email]...

In article ,

The ratings were about the same. It was Celebrity Millionaire (what a joke) and a MNF game that was very close and went into overtime (Packers and Vikings).