I was just reading Tennant's s8-21 review and I realized that how many people hate Rachel. I mean sure she was pretty hash in the episode, but who wouldn't be when she was pregnant and the father was going out with a hot girl. It was clear that she still loved Ross, like she had stated so many times before. I don't understand why so many people blame their on and off relationship on her. I do not think them breaking up was totally Ross's fault, although he should bear most of the blames. So he slept with somebody, big deal, that happens, it's not like he did it on purpose. Their big fight was very moving. What appalls me was the fact that he refused to take responsibility for it afterwards. Rachel made Ross an offer at the beginning of season 4 and it seems that the offer had been standing since then. Ross simply refused to take it. Even when Rachel was dating other guys, if Ross had said "Sorry Rachel, it was all my fault, let's try this again and I will not mess it up anymore", don't you think Rachel would have accepted it? Instead, Ross seemed to think marriage is more important than relationship. I do not understand him and I do not understand why people sympathize with him.
Why do people hate Rachel so much?
In alt.tv.friends on Fri, 3 Feb 2006, wrote :
They shared the blame, IMO.
One that *no* guy in the history of the world would accept!
She wanted him to take 100% of the blame, when *she* was the one who suggested the break, not to mention not immediately telling Mark to take a hike when he came over. While Ross was also wrong to sleep with Chloe, he'd hardly be the first guy to do something stupid while drunk & upset!
Ross would *never* make such an offer without Rachel admitting her own mistakes, too.
It wasn't clear from your post whether you are male or female, so I'll reserve comment on this part.
I would.
I don't get the whole break thing. Even the Canadian government declared that a break between a common law marriage couple does not count unless it's longer than 90 days. Their break lasted what, 9 hours? People say things they don't mean. My girlfriend does that all the time. I leave, let her cool down and apologize for whatever I did or didn't do later.
I don't particularly blame Ross for the sex, he was drunk. Nevertheless, he hurt Rachel badly and he should take responbility for it. He used to be this all caring guy, letting Rachel win games to make her happy and that made him happy too. It's not like Rachel is the kind of girl that would use it against him later on.
I guess that's why I think he is a jerk after season 4. It's a relationship, not a negotiation between two warring countries. Plus, Rachel did admit her own mistakes. She apologized for her behaviour already, at the very first chance she got.
Would you comment differently? :) I am a male member of the species Homo sapiens, comment please. :)
BTW, both Tennant and you wrote great reviews. Really enjoying them.
<Cough>doormat<cough> :)
But they weren't even living together, so their relationship doesn't fall under the definition of Common Law marriage AIUI.
Even if it wasn't your fault?
In which episode?
Possibly... :)
How many men would humiliate themselves by a grovelling apology when their partner wasn't prepared to admit their own part in what went wrong?
Thanks - must admit I found writing them a time-consuming nightmare towards the end, though.
Is it really nearly 2 years since the series ended...!
:) A man should be able to see the bigger picture. It's a waste of time and energy to engage in a pointless petty fight.
That's true. Poor Monica. :)
Who cares whose fault it is. I am a guy. I am suppose to be the bigger person in the relationship. I will not give in on principle issue of course, but usually it's small things anyway.
s3-16 The morning after:
"Hi, it's me. I've been trying to reach you all night. I feel awful. Please, Ross, you gotta know there is nothing between me and Mark. This whole break-up thing is just stupid. Eh, I'm just so sorry I put you through it. And, I y'know, I don't want to get back together over a machine. So, I love you. And y'know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to bed now, but ah, on my way to work tomorrow morning, I'm gonna stop by around 8:30."
Pretty much every guy I know. :) There's nothing humiliating about it. It's a lot less time consuming and usually she would make it up to you anyway. Of course, if a girl was stupid enough to humiliate her partner in public, then I have no sympathy for her.
I know. And the worse thing is that there's nothing comparable on TV since then. :(
IMO sharing blame *is* a principle issue.
That wasn't the first chance - that would be when Ross called her from the club.
She'd have to be Dedee-Pfeiffer-HOT to get away with that with me... :)
Joey?
I don't think so. If a girl asked me to believe in God (you would be surprised how often that happens), that would be a principle issue. That's unfair to me and to God if he existed. Things like whether I spend too much time at work, whether I flrited with another girl, whether I don't love her anymore, who cares. I would just say sorry and get it over with, doesn't mean I think it's my fault or I would do something about it. Even with God, I would just say "Sure, honey, I am sure God is great. I just don't think I have enough faith to go to church yet and the old testimony kind of ruined it for me. BTW, have you ever read any books by Isaac Asimov? " :)
You mean "Hi! Oh, I'm so glad you called." is not apologitic after she just wanted to take a break? Ross never gave her a chance to talk. I don't blame him since Mark was there, but he pretty much forced himself in.
Isn't it all through belover's eyes?
Never really liked Joey, even in friends. IMO, the group has to be together. They are all severely flawed, but complement each other.
Beholder's eyes?
In article , Paul Hyett wrote:
I agree, though in S8-21 it was Rachel's turn to be more at fault.
Yep. And always remember that who it was that first protested...
RACHEL: We were on a break!
..which was in the episode 316 "TOT Morning After".
Indeedy.
Well, I'm a big Ross fan, so I'll dive in - Ross was badly wounded by the way his first marriage ended, and it left him constantly trying to recover the lost situation. His disastrous marriages to Emily & Rachel just made that worse, since he could only find peace with Phoebe...
Tennant
but in s8-21, Rachel prevented Ross from going out with another girl. Wouldn't that do their relationship more good?
She said that in response to Ross claiming "we were broken up".
Exactly why I think Ross is a jerk.
He didn't really married to Emily. They went out for 6 weeks and he clearly still loved Rachel. As for his marriage to Rachel, that's hardly a marriage either. All he had to say was "I love you" and Rachel probably would have accepted it. He did give a lot of hints, but it was drown in his constant obsession. I blame Phoebe for that whole disaster. Both Rachel and Ross were her friends, she should have tried to make it work. Oddly, she has always been more close to Ross than to Rachel.
LOL, I noticed that in your reviews. The problem is that he does not love Phoebe.
In article , [email] wrote:
If she really loved him, she would want him to be happy.
There were lots of hints in the later seasons that he did, more so than there was between Chandler & Monica in seasons 3 & 4. Then Matt LeBlanc was the only one who signed up for a spin-off, and the writing changed.
Tennant
I don't think so. Love (between couples) is a very exclusive emotion. It's never about what's the best for one or the other, it's about what's best for the couple, especially when the love is mutual. Rachel was totally selfish in the episode, but jealousy is part of love, maybe the most important part.
I never see Ross and Phoebe being anything more than friends. Then again, I never thought Chandler and Monica were going to end up together.
In article , [email] wrote:
Not really. Once the writers were forced (by the spin-off's casting) to change the feelings of their characters, Ross was willing to let her go to Paris, as long as it made her happy.
Exactly.
Tennant
In article , [email] wrote:
Thanks - was that on my friend Shierly's website?
Well, of course a lot of all that was just the writers messing them about, since (as I noted in my S10-18 review), Kauffman & Crane got fed up with writing them as a couple, so split them up in Season 3 - that was why the pair weren't brought together until minutes before the show ended forever, while Chandler & Monica worked beautifully as a couple for six years.
But in my review of S8-21, I did make the point that at times there was something lonely & pathetic about Rachel, as I did feel sorry for her.
Tennant
No, actually. I found it on the newsgroup. Got to say, great reviews. I am still looking for the first 5 seasons as I think the second and third one are the best, before Ross got all mental and JA somehow got tanned.
That's true. They don't work as a couple. They have nothing in common. I did enjoy them a lot in "Nobody is ready" though.
She had been pretty lonely and pathetic since they broke up. I still don't see what she saw in Ross (other than the hands). Ross was great in season 1-3, but then he went insane.
I didn't do reviews before S4, and even then they were very brief.
He went 'insane' *because* of his break-up with Rachel.
That's a shame. :( IMO, the 2nd and 3rd season are the best.
He was ok for the rest of Season 3. Especially enjoyed "A chick and a duck". He was great in that. Flirting while being very considerate. Maybe the second breakup was too much for him although that one is totally his fault. Even if Rachel was unreasonable to put the entire blame on him (which I don't think she was or it matters), he should have finished the letter and talk to her.
In article , [email] wrote:
Via Google?
Ta muchly!
I didn't start writing full reviews until Season 6, although there are some briefer versions I did for the first 5 - one was published as "S3-05 Slam the Door Twice" and "S2-09 Underneath the Basil" was ready to go, but fans weren't interested in debating old episodes.
Indeed, though Phoebe was the only one who respected Ross.
Yes, but I was just struck by the look on her face in this episode.
If you read between the lines, Ross was edgy at best in the early days as well; but each female betrayal sent him further over that edge.
Tennant
yep
What a shame. I would love to read them.
That's part of reason why I love Ross and Rachel. Their relationship was not built on respect or rational, but raw emotion. I still think TOW the List was one of the best episode. "She is not Rachel".
Yeah, she was totally desperate.
Ross was ok at the beginning. He was insecure and whiny, but he compensated with his kindness and sweatness towards Rachel. Later on, he was totally obsessed, much like Monica. I guess it's in their blood.
In article , [email] wrote:
I'm so impressed! Thankyou!
Ah, now 209 is on a disc somewhere, but 305 should be here in the backup for our website, so... <looks> ..yes! Right, I'll repost it for you.
Look out for the new thread, "Friends S03-05 - slam the door twice".
Well, some of us have moved on from 1995...
Maybe, but there was zero chemistry between the pair, again.
Lol, I think you mean sweetness...
He was delighted to be with a woman who appreciated his science, and although Katie did not last long, Phoebe was waiting in the wings.
Tennant
Totally understandable, and the reason for that is that she never did the "Princess Lea" fantasy with Ross.
Yes she did - but Chandler had warped Ross's perception with his Oedipal complex, so that ruined it.
In article , Paul Hyett wrote:
Plus the fact that Rachel's costume was frumpy compared with the one that Princess Leia wore, and crucially Rachel did the hair *totally* wrong.
Tennant