Finale Review

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This is not going to be a popular opinion.

I think the writers had some good intentions when they wrote this episode, and they really wanted it to be an emotionally powerful masterpiece. They had a coherent theme that flowed through every storyline except the boat: this was the episode where *every* character made some decisions about how to acheive the future stability and security they longed for. Ross broke up with Elizabeth because he realized he had no future with her. Rachel and Phoebe faced the idea that they didn't want to be alone when they were older, and tried to give themselves a guarentee. And Monica nearly broke up with Chandler because he foolishly allowed her to believe that she had no future with him. Monica and Chandler's story came the closest to working, but there were substantial flaws in every storyline they gave us this episode.

1. Ross and Elizabeth: Elizabeth joins the increasing line of SOs who suddenly go weird after several consistent episodes of pleasant maturity. I'd love to know what Professor Gotta Keep It Secret Geller was doing in her dorm room, anyway.

2. The Backups: I've got a huge beef with this one. We are expected to believe that after *all this mess*, after the reunions and the breakups and the messed up vows and the "I still love yous" and the marriage in Vegas and the whole thing with Jill... after ALL THAT......!

Ross and Rachel treated their prospective future marriage with the same casual abandon that Phoebe and Joey did. There was no glimmer of deep emotion behind the businesslike transactions. even though Rachel did trade for Ross' name. Ross actually did not care if he got Phoebe or Rachel, as long as he "didn't end up an old maid." That's very emotionally dishonest writing. As recently as nine episodes ago, Rachel asked Ross to keep away from her sister because the idea of them dating made her uncomfortable. The emotional residue of their past was there. That was believable. As recently as three episodes ago, Ross felt weird because Rachel went out with his girlfriend's father. That made sense. This needed to be rewritten. There needed to be some undercurrent that the two characters were either nervous about the prospective deal, or anticipatory, or if they were acknowledging, subtly to each other, that there was still the spark, or SOMETHING. Even refusal to do it because of their past would have been preferable to just ignoring it. This is really not my R&R side talking. I have recently found myself on a Niles and Daphne kick and don't care much anymore. They took an issue that was emotional dynamite and treated it like it was a game. Ross and Rachel are not Joey and Phoebe. Bad writing.

Now, as for the Big Deal...

I tried to like this one. I thought Matthew Perry was pretty good. He bounced back and forth with a rollercoaster of emotions and I wanted it to turn out for him. But there were severe problems with this story, not the least of which was that it was entirely made up of recycled material.

We've already dealt with Richard before. He caused the big fight between them *last* year, and for the most part, that episode was well handled. But here, I'm actually supposed to believe that, after *four years* apart from Monica, with whom he had a three month relationship, Richard is suddenly supposed to materialize with a marriage proposal the very same week that she's about to get engaged to a man she's been dating two years and living with for one.

And this actually gave Monica pause.

Can't make me think very highly of Monica's devotion, that's for sure.

She never once considered saying, "Chandler, remember that advice I gave Ross about Elizabeth? Well, it goes for you, too. If we have no future, we are over." But instead we got a very contrived conflict where the outcome was really never in any doubt at all and the big payoff was one of the most badly overacted, maudlin scenes I think I've ever seen on any sitcom. I agree that the little moment where Joey told Chandler she was gone was a nice little bit for Matt. The candles were good. Monica on one knee was good. But then they started crying, and it was so forced and obviously phony I was actually embarrassed watching it. My husband, who has *no* couple affiliation at all, groaned and got up to get a snack during that scene. Courteney Cox cannot act her way out of a wet paper bag that somebody has sliced with scissors. Emmy nomination for this? Uh....no.

I watched it again yesterday just because I felt I MUST have been too hard on that last scene. I wasn't. I did, however, figure out what they were trying to do and why it didn't work for anybody who wasn't a Chandler and Monica fan. This was an attempt to be the Anti Morning After. Ross and Rachel get into jealousy issues, Ross and Rachel break up in a very emotional scene that leaves them both crying. Chandler and Monica are sorely tried by jealousy issues, Chandler and Monica get engaged in a very emotional scene that leaves them both crying. . Cue the crying. Crying actually written into the script. Problem?

In TOW the Morning After, Jennifer Aniston was not supposed to cry. David's performance moved her so, and she was so caught up in the moment, that she cried involuntarily and the producers liked it so much they kept it in. That was a genuine emotional epiphany for the actors, the characters, and the audience combined. Here, Courteney and Perry were both directed to cry, and it was very obvious they were both pretending. Not one real tear to be seen anywhere. No real reason for the tears. (And yes, I've lived through that moment when you realize you will spend your life with the person across from you. I know EXACTLY how it feels.)

But as they go along their engagement journey, I will try to remember a much better, more effective, more honest, more enjoyable proposal that was among the best delivered lines of the fifth season.

Chandler looks at her warmly with all the feelings in his soul, crawls through the metaphorical tunnel, and says with all his heart, "It's a four."

Now THAT was a good, honest proposal scene.

One last note: One of the problems that this episode faces is that it immediately preceded one of the great emotional epiphanies for one of the great sitcoms of all time - Frasier. I actually thought this wasn't all THAT bad until I watched David Hyde Pierce go into action immediately after the Chandler and Monica show was over. The power that a really exceptional actor can produce from the smallest look, a slight tremor in the voice, a closing of the eyes, puts what we saw here in the engagement scene to shame.

claire abraham wrote:

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I begin to wonder if this was a case of using Sellick in the episode because he was available, rather than because using his character made sense. The emotional maturity of the characters overall is questionable anyhow, primarily because of the "Swiss Army Knife" syndrome I've noted before -- when the writers need a character to exhibit a trait, the trait arises even if it makes no sense in context of what's gone before.

I've noted that one element of sitcom humor is to have adults act like children. This is last-resort "humor" and indicates a failure of imagination on the part of the writers. I recall a <Frasier> episode where I expected this to be done, and when the writers there skirted the situation and instead had him act like an adult and explain himself, I applauded. I get too few opportunities to do that these days on this show.

One thing that your friends can do for you is give you a shove in the right direction when you're on the wrong track. On the whole, I was glad things worked out for the characters I've come to like here, but if I were friends with most of them there'd be some serious shoving going on.

Hellooooo!!! After getting drunk in Vegas, claire abraham doodled cat whiskers on his/her face and miaowed this little lot at a statue...

I meant in general over the second half of the season! :P (I put that in at some point, I'm sure I did.)

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I'm a C&M fan, and I have to agree with Claire on this one. Apparently Courteney and Matthew can't handle the crying, and someone their (the director or the producers) should've taken note and changed that. I was much more impress with the 'it's a four' and the 'not anymore' from last year than I was with the whole crying schmick. Even earlier in the episode, when Monica exited the bedroom before they went out to dinner, the look and tone of voice that Chandler used was a better portrayal of what they are about than the ending scene. You can convey more emotion with a look and a change of the tone of your voice than you can by blubbering. I didn't weant crying, I wanted the looks, the smiles, and the tone of voice that I know they are capable of.

So.. uh.. would your opinion be any different if it were Ross and Rachel... ?

On 23 May 2000 00:06:33 GMT, [email] (Moron Cow) wrote:

LOL! I was thinking about that as well! :)

~Ariel
-------------------------------
"Money isn't everything, but it's right up there with oxygen"

"Betre b�r du ber kje i bakken enn mannevit mykje" - H�vam�l

I think we all know the answer to that.

~Act

Activia wrote:

I'm pretty sure we don't. We won't know because we will probably never see the same situation with R&R. I could venture to guess what it might be like, but it's not relevant to the thread. People were discussing why it was difficult for some people not to be moved by this scene. Since you guys are C&M fans who don't seem to be able to see other people's sides of arguments about this couple, I find it pointless for you to even become part of this thread.

I absolutely love how some people can have an intelligent debate about something on this show and then others come into it and make totally irrelevant statements to ruin it. The people who posted in this thread had opinions which they backed up. They supported their arguments very well. You guys come in here and apparently don't get what the discussion is about because you write something senseless and don't even back it up with intelligent reasoning.

There have even been C&M fans enter this thread who have agreed with what was posted so why don't you ask them what the opinion would be if it was R&R? It doesn't matter because that's not what's being discussed. The discussion is about why the scene did or did not work for certain people.

You're just making fools out of yourselves by posting this drivel. Come back when you have something intelligent to say that adds to the conversation.

Jay- who's liking Scally more and more by the minute.

P.S. And stop with the damn spoiler police/alerts also. It's pissing people off. I've read Activia's reply to Tina in the FAQ thread and it's obvious you still don't get it. You've appointed yourselves to be moderators to make sure people don't post spoilers when it's an individual's responsibility. I read where you said you've taken suggestions into account to alter some things. Why should we suggest things to you when you shouldn't be messing with it in the first place? Here's a suggestion. If you want to help, get a list of people who don't want to see spoilers, find spoilers in certain posts and then email those people to tell them what threads to avoid. I realize that some people like what you guys have done, but it's not your job. No one appointed you to this position because it was never decided we needed you to do it. If people don't want to read spoilers, they should have to take the responsibility themselves so that it doesn't bother the others in any way.

Congratulations. Great, intelligent post.

What about the scene in which Phoebe and Rachel chose Ross and Joey. Rachel chose Joey and Phoebe chose Ross, then changed their minds, Rachel took Ross and Phoebe took Joey.

Mara Jade Skywalker- Jedi Master

In article , "J. Robinson" wrote:

Rachel... ?

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~Ashley* "In spite of everything, I still believe people are good at heart"- Anne Frank

In article , "J. Robinson" wrote:

Standing ovation from this reader-

Alanna

I think you need a lot of people to have an authentic standing ovation. If it's just one person, you're really just a loon. That said, Im a loon

On Tue, 23 May 2000 03:32:41 -0500, "J. Robinson" wrote:

I guess we were trying to defend them. I thought it was a sweet moment when they got engaged. Yeah, I can see that the tears may have been too much to take for some people. And it was really, I don't know, "weird" to see that in a Friends episode. Maybe it was that that turned so many off. I just thought it was odd to see so many people comparing it to 316 TO The Morning After. We have to remember that that was a completely different situation. Back then two people who honestly believed they were meant for each other were breaking up. (And don't make this into a couple-war again, because I'm hoping for a R+R reconciliation next year.)

Jennifer and David were fabulous in that episode, and I remember being so sad when she finally decided that it was time to call it quits.

In this season's finale we saw what the other couple on the show decided to do with their relationship after two years together. That ended happily, at least it's happy now. I remember hearing some of the producers saying that they needed to bring Richard back at one point to wreak havoc on the two of them, and I guess they wanted to do that last year. That would have made sense. Apparently it didn't work out that way, Tom Selleck was probably busy doing other things (that movie about the love letters perhaps? I don't know), and therefore he came back this year. When I saw the finale I hadn't read any of the reviews on this ng concerning the fact that Monica went back to his apartment and therefore made herself look bad, so I have to admit, that that thought didn't occur to me at all. When I read the spoilers for the finale and heard that he would come back I thought that maybe Chandler and Monica would break up temporarily. I had not imagined a happy end at all.

Okay, I'm sorry about my comment. It was very late and I'm exhausted these days due to my exams.

So, the reason you didn't buy the scene was: 1) Monica went back to Richard's apartment instead of confronting Chandler. 2) The tears 3) It was just too happy? (I don't know...)

What I didn't like about the last scene was that Ross wasn't there. I know that DS was in England, but it would have been so nice to see him coming in congratulating his sister and his future brother in law.

Have I made up for my "foolish comment" now?

~Ariel
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"Money isn't everything, but it's right up there with oxygen"

"Betre b�r du ber kje i bakken enn mannevit mykje" - H�vam�l

Ok this was meant to be a joke, god I didn't mean anything by it. Gee I wish people would stop pounding me on my back, like my back doenst hurt enough already. you take me to literally at times.

Excuse me? I can't participate in a thread just because it involves my favorite couple? and you call the spoiler police monitoring. I thought I Took a VERY objective point of view before and you ddin't even look at the points in it. what a surprise..

Exactly!

Those were the exact points that I was trying to show everyone in my long post on what happened in that scene. Yet I only got one response from soemone who said they didn't understand what I was trying to get accross??

~Act

Ariel wrote:

That's exactly why I thought the posts were unnecessary. A couple war would be senseless and a big waste of time. The original debate was very well thought out and was fun to read.

First off, overall I liked the episode more than I thought I would. Considering it was a C&M episode with scraps for the rest, I thought it was decent. My problem with the C&M part was mainly that I found the plot very contrived. The writers tried to make us believe that Monica was torn between Richard and Chandler. I wasn't able to truly believe that it SHOULD be a difficult decision for her. I did think the tears(or attempt at tears) was a bit cheesy, but it wasn't a big problem for me.

I suspect that the writers were attempting to create an episode that would 1)make the C&M fans very happy, which they did. And 2) try to make others who don't care about them actually care about them. They succeeded in pleasing the C&M fans because it is natural to be excited about their ending. The problem is that a C&M fan is going to take the episode at face value, which they were supposed to do and should have done. That is why the episode worked for many people. The reason why it didn't work for others is that if you look at the episode closely, you'll see it was a bit far-fetched, even for tv. So basically, non C&M fans are naturally going to look at the plot deeper because they're not going to get caught up in the joy of it. I think the episode met its goal for C&M fans and probably many others, but it didn't quite manage to do it for others.

I wish you would have started with this post instead of the previous one. You had definate opinions about the plot and you explained your reasoning behind those opinions well. This was a good post which opens the door to a thoughtful debate.

Jay

Here are some belated comments on the finale:

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Well, I, for one, agree with almost everything you wrote.

powerful

No doubt they did. Too bad it didn�t turn out that way, huh? IMO, the writers made a mistake in choosing to build the season�s most dramatic episode around a couple whose history has been decidedly undramatic. Up until this point, Chandler and Monica had made it through two years without encountering a single serious problem, or even having one really good fight. Their eventual engagement and marriage seemed inevitable. But "inevitable" and "sweeps-worthy" are contradictory concepts. So, instead, at the end of one episode�s worth of mostly ridiculous events, the writers attempted to present C and M�s engagement as the touching culmination of a difficult and suspenseful struggle.

Problem is, the "struggle" was too far-fetched to make the teary- eyed proposal scene seem genuinely moving. The scene had some nice elements and it might have worked if the rest of the story had been more believable�if the writers had given Chandler and Monica a more realistic problem to deal with, preferably one that took a few episodes to develop and be resolved, and preferably NOT one that involved Richard Burke declaring his love for Monica, or Chandler making absurd remarks about pig sex.

IMO, the fact that Monica fell for Chandler�s plan was the least credible element of the whole contrived plot. This is a woman who just HAD to know where she and Richard were going after only three months together�and then dumped him when she learned how he felt about having kids. There�s no way she�d spend two years with Chandler without finding out�probably in great detail�how he sees their future. And there�s no way she�d stay with him for two years if his visions of the future did not likely include marriage. Chandler�s sudden anti-marriage declarations MUST have contradicted things that he�d told Monica in the past. So why did she so readily accept his statements as the truth? Why didn�t she make more of an effort to find out (from Chandler himself, rather than Joey) the real reason he was suddenly saying such crazy things? Or better yet, why didn�t Monica just catch on to Chandler�s plan, especially when she had Phoebe�s "let me see your hand!" remark as a major clue. (Actually, I could see that becoming a TOW Everyone Finds Out-like plot in which Monica only pretends to believe Chandler; Chandler gets freaked out thinking Monica�s really angry with him; Joey feels bad and lets Chandler know that Monica�s pretending;. Chandler then tries again to fake out Monica, and so on. As in TOW Everyone Finds out, the whole gang could somehow be dragged into it. It would have been a much lighter and more intentionally farcical finale, but perhaps it also would have been funnier and more appropriate to the CM relationship.)

The second most unbelievable element of the plot was Richard proposing to Monica after so many years. For one thing, Chandler�s right: Richard really is too good a guy to mess with M and C�s relationship that way. For another, what�s up with Richard�s change of heart about Monica? If he�d really regretted losing her that much, he had his chance to reunite with her way back in ep. #313, TOW Monica and Richard are Friends. But, in fact, back then, it was Richard who ultimately put the kibosh on their reunion:

Monica: (snip) Would it be so terrible? Even if we were friends who lived together. Or, maybe someday friends who stood up in front of their other friends, and vowed to be friends forever.

Richard: Wow. Y'know we�re back where we were. Honey, I would love to do all that, but nothing�s changed.

Monica: That�s not true, you don�t have a moustache.

Richard: Okay, okay, one thing�s changed. But we still want different things and we know how this is gonna end.

maudlin scenes I think I've >ever seen on any sitcom.

Yeah, it was really fanfic-ish.

Monica on one

Uh huh. It was high-Cringe Factor TY, as this friend of mine would say.

cannot act her way out of a wet >paper bag that somebody has sliced with scissors. Emmy >nomination for this? Uh....no.

The acting was not great. I thought Perry was better than Cox Arquette throughout most of the ep, but they were both sort of gross during the proposal scene. Then again, the whole story was so phony that I�m not sure how well any two actors could have done with it.

with all his

Yes, indeed. Too bad the writers wasted it by using it before they were actually ready to marry off C and M. It�s part of a problem that�s become increasingly prevalent on Friends�episodes are written without regard to the past or future of the show. The characters� histories are invoked when it�s convenient and ignored when it�s not, making for a lot of contradictory and often unbelievable behavior from them. Stuff like the Vegas proposal happens in spite of the fact that it will greatly reduce the dramatic impact of later eps, such as this season�s finale.

for one of the great sitcoms of all >time�Frasier.

Yup. I might not have been so disappointed in the Friends finale had I not watched the excellent Frasier finale immediately afterward. (And I say that as a person who is a bit of a CM fan and who has watched Frasier only a few times this season. Even without much knowledge of the Daphne-Niles story, I found that finale truly suspenseful and far more engrossing than the Friends finale)

To Sprong and Claire, thanks for posting everything that I felt but was too lazy to write out! :)

Alanna