02/03/00 tonight's episode

Very, very, funny...

I liked it a lot and it's very obvious that Jill, Rachel's sister, is going to stir things up a little. I think we're all in for a good ride.

Monica being sick also cracked me up. Cheers to a great episode!

sulou ===

S p o i l e r s p a c e a d d e d t h a t s e n o u g h

Suzanne & Brad wrote:

Agreed. To all the Friends naysayers out there who think that show is finished, I say not so fast. Yes, the show has been in a slump lately but this was a fantastic episode. Reese Witherspoon helped put some life back into the show. She was great. I thought it the best episode of the season. All storylines worked. The rest of the month looks like it's going to be very very interesting. I say don't bail out folks.

Robert

On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Robert wrote:

<yawn> Give me a break. Let them *actually* do something unusual instead of playing the same old R&R card all over again, which we all know is just going to be tucked back into the deck once they've finished playing with us.

Here's a thought (and these characterizations are not exclusively about tonight's episode, they're more about how I feel about the characters overall at this point):

How about Rachel being left alone to contemplate her incredibly assinine possessiveness, giving her a chance to actually grow up?

How about Ross stop acting like the world owes him big time for being a doormat?

How about Monica and Chandler give up this childish need to be coy with each other and with the others and just get married for crying out loud?

How about Pheobe learning how to live a normal life on *this* planet for once?

It is these 5 twinkies that are making Joey look so mature and virtuous. If this were Peter Sellers in "Being There" or Cary Grant in "Arsenic and Old Lace", it just might work. As "Friends", well ...

Tonight's episode was mildly interesting, but if they can't do any better than this, then I say wrap it up this season and let's all move on with our lives.

God, this show is depressing me. It'd be so much easier if it just plain sucked. But no, it keeps dancing near the edge of quality and then pulls back. At this point it is just hard for me to get excited when it dances near the edge, because I *know* it will never cross over into quality, no matter how much it "threatens" to. Once bitten, twice shy, as they say. Or better yet, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

James Squire wrote in message news:[email]...

going

finished,

a

show.

storylines

-

One.

I didn't like it that much. I thought it actually sucked

On this episode i think we have to we have to separate out storyline from acting. The storyline was so-so. Not the best not their worst. The acting however was bad. Specially Aniston, it was really forced acting, and with an average storyline this made it a bad episode

I think they will bring back R&R but they still havent found a way to do it without being repetitive

That's something i noticed too. It doesnt really seem to me that rachel loves ross, rather that she possesses ross and doesnt want any other girls to play with him and wants to keep him under wraps until she's ready for him again.

I think this episode reinforces a marriage possibility. Like all other things in the show, the writers will stretch this out as long as possible

Like i've said before, phoebe is done. She's joining Joey as part of the background

I don't know, Joey's sotryline was the least important of the episode. It wasn't even properly developed

Unfortunately i dont see that happening this season. With only 9 episodes unfilmed, i don't see how theyll wrap up the series, unless its a hastily put together and bad series finale

Well, I guess we'll just disagree here. I thought Jennifer was trying to save some terrible material.

And for once, we are in complete agreement, William. That is indeed how it's coming out. If it's the writer's intention, Rachel is an actively bad human being. If it isn't the writer's intention, these people are getting really sloppy and careless.

Unfortunately? You think this show is over, too, don't you.

With only 9

Well, I guess nine episodes would be enough for Rachel to apologize to Ross for ruining his life repeatedly, and for Chandler to propose to Monica. On the condition that she starts taking her daily sedative and stops all coffee drinking for good.

Claire Abraham wrote:

Claire, we've all seen Rachel's jealousy in the past. But I have a question for you. If an ex of yours was dating your sister, how would you feel? Would you be ok with it or would you be very uncomfortable with it? If you would be ok with it, then you're a much bigger person than I am. I'm sorry but if an ex of mine started dated my brother, I would absolutely hate it. No question about it. So while Rachel's past jealousy has been well chronicled, I believe her reaction in this instance is entirely understandable. In fact, I would say it's quite normal.

Robert

On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Robert wrote:

I totally agree with Claire. The acting has rarely been a problem for me. Schwimmer and Anniston ought to receive medals for their efforts, and probably Perry, Le Blanc, Kudrow, and Cox Arquette as well.

1. It's been 2 years, plenty of time to get over an old attachment, if one is really serious about getting over it, that is.

2. Yes, characters in sitcoms typically feel this way. Is it typical in real life? I sincerely doubt it. Most people are more mature than the characters on TV.

3. Her reaction *might* be somewhat understandable, IF SHE EVER SHOWED ANY SIGNS OF REFLECTING ON IT!!!!!! Not to mention actually doing something about it. At this point in the story, no it is not understandable. It is an old, boring song that has been played too many times. It's lost on me.

James Squire wrote:

To me what's really gotten old and boring is the constant cynicism in this newsgroup. Think about this. Until last night, Rachel has shown no jealous tendencies all season long. None. Ross has dated several times, correct? Nothing serious, but he has dated. Has Rachel tried in any way shape or form to stop it? Has she tried to shave a girlfriend's head or something? When they were talking about moving in together, it was Rachel who talked about dating other people. She wanted to make sure Ross was ok with it given their possible new living arrangements. Yet people insist on drudging up ancient tendencies when I don't think it's really relevant here. They're very good friends now and have been for quite some time. But now Ross is dating her sister. It's too close to home for her. She's only human. To use a Friends' term, it's *icky* and I believe her reaction is completely understandable, past tendencies or not.

Robert

Well, we're terribly sorry you don't approve of our reaction.

Robert, understand something that might make you take this less personally. I am not mad at *Rachel* nearly so much as I am mad at the writing staff for bringing up exactly the same storyline, using exactly the same behavioral patterns, again and again. This isn't about Ross and Rachel. This is about a very cynical writing staff with a very low opinion of the intelligence of their audience. It is obvious you are offended by our frustration and disgust to see this played out yet again, but I'll be completely honest with you. I am very tired of being reeled in and suckered like a fish. I am beginning to take this personally. I'm not mad at Rachel. Rachel is a figment of somebody else's imagination. She will be generous and independent or selfish and possessive as it serves the storyline with no regard paid at all to any semblance of reason. I used to get mad at her when she did mean things, but her behavior is *so* fickle, so hot and cold, so unbelievable that I no longer regard it as being the product of any kind of artistic pattern. She's not a bitch anymore; she's just a symptom of sloppy writing and complete lack of artistic integrity.

Aye, that's the rub. He's had blind dates she knew were bound for disaster and one run-in with a pizza girl she knew thought he was a geek. Rachel can handle Ross on a date from hell. She just can't stand the idea of him getting involved with anybody who might work out or matter.

Has any of them shown any promise whatsoever?

When they were talking about moving in together, it

Oh, sure. In the abstract, she's fine. Especially if she thinks she's the one who will have the guys dropping by. Your argument doesn't work, Robert. Rachel can handle Ross dating in the abstract, but not in the concrete.

She wanted to make sure Ross was ok

Last year ain't ancient, friend. It's happened in season two, four, five and six now. Almost once a year. I have to say I do not understand how you can possibly suggest that this "ancient tendency" got resolved the last time they dealt with it.

They're very good

Last time I checked, that word was used to describe statuatory rape of a minor. There is no way you are going to convince me that Rachel's reaction is anymore reasonable here than I am going to convince you that your darling Rachel is doing something which, in the real world, would be absolutely hideous. Grownups either let their old lovers be happy or they let them come back. They don't refuse the old flame any chance of happiness.

Claire Abraham wrote:

Claire, first let me say that as usual we disagree but that's quite all right. :) I respect your opinion. But yes, you're right I am frustrated by this newsgroups reaction. What I saw last night was a real effort by the writers to inject some much needed life back into the show. Now I may not have said anything here lately, but I have been very disappointed with the show in recent weeks. Yes me! And you know how I always try to put a positive spin on things.

I comeback to my original statement. If R&R are ever going to get back together, it has to start somewhere. According to you, this story will go nowhere. I believe it will. Not right away but I believe the writers are opening the door back up. Why after all of the false hopes do I think that? I think that the frustration among R&R fans is at an all time high. I also think that time on the series is running out. The writers know these things. I think they are entering a now or never period. They're not even signed for next year yet. Do you honestly think the writers are going to let this show go off the air without putting these two back together? Now, I'm not saying that it will end this year. In fact. I highly doubt it. But if this isn't the last year, next year likely will be. The actors are itching to go on to other things. They need to start to lay the groundwork for a reconciliation. I believe that's what they are doing here.

Robert

On Sat, 5 Feb 2000, Robert wrote:

There is at least one problem with your assessment of Rachel's behavior. In the process of stating that she hated the idea of Ross dating her sister, SHE ALSO STATED THAT SHE HATES THE IDEA OF ROSS DATING ANYONE.

I don't remember all that well, you may be right about "Until tonight", at least in terms of what we have seen in this season's episodes. But in last night's episode, she revealed that she's still been thinking all this time, "He's mine and no one else's."

I don't remember any of the times Ross has had dates this season, but let me also point out that Rachel has always been just fine with Ross dating someone who he is obviously *not* going to fall in love with. Remember how Bonnie was just fine when Rachel thought she was bald?

You'll have to tell me which times you are thinking of where Ross was dating someone and Rachel was actually supportive. The last one I can think of was the Pizza girl - last season - who was obviously unlikely to reciprocate. Before that, the only one I can think of is Emily, which might truly be the one exception, although later on she was sure that Ross and Emily were rushing into their marriage. Still, that might not invalidate the exception. On the other hand, that was also the last time that Rachel saw Ross already in a truly serious relationship - in this case leading toward marriage - and look what she did: she went to plan B, which was to take an action that she knew might wreck that marriage. That was the last time probably that she did do what you say she hasn't done since. But that is only because her idea of the future was truly being threatened.

Up until last night, it may have been plausible to think that she has outgrown her possessiveness. Last night, we found out that alas, this is not the case.

I suggest that it was *not* simply the idea of her sister dating Ross - else why would she go on and on about what a great person Ross is?

Rather it is because she knew her sister and knew that Ross would be attracted to her and knew the Jill could "have him" if she wanted him.

*THAT* is why she hates the idea.

I really do not get this business about dating one's sibling being too close to home. Someone please explain this to me, it makes no sense.

I agree as well!  I think Jennifer was great in last nights episode, and IMHO,
she's very underrated in general.
  JJJJJJJJ         EEEEE  Y      Y
       JJ             E           Y      Y
       JJ  OOOO EEEEE  YYYYY  -"1999, the year of Joey"
 JJ   JJ  O     O E               Y
 JJJJJJ  OOOO EEEEE      Y

<Sniff> That was so Beautiful!

*The Vunerable Ashley*