This might make a lot of you drop in a dead faint, but I just found the single best argument I've ever seen against an R&R reunion. Here it is: _______
Mark Dawidziak Cleveland Plain Dealer Television Critic
NBC makes its special delivery at 8 tonight with the much hyped eighth-season finale of "Friends." Unmarried Rachel Green (Jennifer Aniston) gives birth to a daughter in this hourlong episode that airs on WKYC Channel 3. But will Rachel remain unmarried? That's the real question hanging over tonight's show, the setup for what will be the comedy's ninth and last season. We've known since the end of the seventh season that Rachel is pregnant. We learned during the eighth season that Ross Geller (David Schwimmer) is the father. We learned that the baby will be a girl. Where's the suspense in tonight's season ender? Let me propose that the answer has a familiar ring. NBC confirms that Ross races through tonight's episode with an engagement ring in his pocket. This may be a tease, of course, and it's hardly clear that Ross will propose or that, if he does propose, Rachel will accept. Remember that Joey (Matt LeBlanc) declared his love to the pregnant Rachel this season, and she rejected him. But speculation is running rampant among fans. Is it time for Ross and Rachel to become more than just friends? Will they become a couple like Monica (Courteney Cox) and Chandler (Matthew Perry)? "I think the country is rooting for it," says psychologist Neil Clarck Warren, author of "Finding the Love of your Life." "I think the fans want it. And I think the story is leading toward them getting together. They've become televisions latest 'should-they-shouldn't-they-get-together' couple." We went down this road with Maddie and David on "Moonlighting," Sam and Diane on "Cheers," Niles and Daphne on "Frasier." But if Ross and Rachel do get together, it will be a dreadful mistake, says Warren, a relationship and marriage counselor for more than 35 yerars. Ross and Rachel are lost souls, not soul mates, says Warren, who has been married for 43 years. The problem for "Friends," as he sees it, is that most viewers probably don't agree with him. "The country is pretty pathological about these TV romances," says Warren, a familiar face on such shows as "Oprah" and "Politically Incorrect." "We get carrid away by something we call romance." These are only TV characters on a comedy show, right? Why take all this so seriously? Armed with a Ph.D. in psychology, the good doctor worries that these TV duos reinforce such dangerous clich�s as "love conquers all" and "opposites attract." "Opposites attract, then they attack," Warren says. "And we know love doesn' t conquer all. What overwhelms us is that we have about a 50 percent divorce rate for first marriages in this country. And our research indicates that only half of the remaining 50 percent are happy marriages. That means only one in four of all first marriages is going to make it. "So the country clearly doesn't know how to do a mate selection. They certainly haven't got the idea that you cannot win out over complete mismatches. And Ross and Rachel are a mismatch." Warren admits his dismissal of "love conquers all" can sound heartless, but after conducting research with 500 couples, he has decided that it takes more than romance for a relationship to endure. He uses a list of 29 variables to evaluate a couple's compatibility. They include ambition, intellect, education, spirituality, anger management and a sense of humor. This scale indicates that Ross and Rachel would fail miserably as a couple. Education? "Ross is a paleontologist. Rachel is in fashion. He's educated and driven to learn. She went to college to find a husband. She still can't spell paleontology." In one category after another, Ross and Rachel fail to match up. "You need to have similarities," says Warren, who operates a Web site, eharmony.com, that helps couples interested in establishing long-term bonds. "similarities are like money in the bank. Differences are like debts you owe. And Ross and Rachel don't have a lot of equity. "They're two pretty impulsive self-centered people. You get tht efeeling that emotional health is not a strong suit for either of them." Warren believes Rachel would be more compatable with Joey, and maybe the "Friends" writers think that, too. "But nationally, we seem to want Ross and Rachel together, particularly because she's about to have a baby," Warren says. "It's unhealthy because people get so attached to these fictional couples at a time when we tend to focus on appearance and chemistry. But over time, the quality of character -what's inside a person-is what determines whether a relationship endures.<<<
I have been a long-time R&R supporter, largely because I want Ross to be happy. One of the reasons why this particular article actually resonated with me is that it is an anti-R&R thought which does not assess blame. It does not go on at length about what a jerk Ross is, or why Joey is so much more deserving, or even fall into the hope of vicarious thrills with Joey as the identity object. It suggests one thing: R&R are going to have a hard marriage because they don't have a lot to talk about or do together.
There's merit in that.
As an R&R supporter, I feel compelled to build an argument against it, but actually, I think the guy has a really solid point. We've been talking at excruciating length about why Joey should or should not end up with Rachel instead, and I have always been opposed to the idea; one very important reason is that I feel that rejecting Ross in favor of Joey would involve a betrayal so deep the Friends circle could never recover.
This fellow offers a way out. The whole thing might end tolerably if Joey were not the reason for them to remain apart. The key lies in R&R realizing, together, gently and without acrimony, that they don't have enough in common to be comfortable in a life together, and that this is not somebody's fault. If Joey were to quietly pick up the pieces AFTER that very important decision was reached, there would be no reason for bitterness.
That being said, I still think a real deep psychological analysis would require that R&R really, really think about why they won't let each other move on. If they don't, the little games are going to continue and Joey is still going to be zapped like Mona and Joshua and Julie before him. It still seems to me that, even if R&R were not compatible, this is a situation Joey would be wise to avoid because of their past behavior towards each other's romantic partners, and the sanest solution might still be for all three of them to marry outside the group. They really live in each other's laps too much.
"abrahammy" wrote in message news:blBL8.44$[email]...
'snip good arguement'
I agree with all of this no doubt. I know about compatibility since I have been happily married for ages and my parents have been happily married for 60 years now. But we can't compare real life with fiction. These people are not real. We don't have to be concerned about their futures, how happy a home Emma would have, etc., etc., etc.
This article does point out many real-life truths. I just don't know why there can't be a little fantasy and entertainment in our lives without worrying about things like this. What's important is that we realize that Friends is not a true reflection of real life. If we want to see more positive family values on friends, then lets have Emma live happily with her real mom & dad. Hey, it could happen. They just have to be written that way. :)
"Laurie" wrote in message news:tCBL8.2545$[email]...
Well, one thing that did occur to me as I was reading this rather intelligent article is that, since R&R's entire history has been based on contrived, forced and in some cases rather unplausible problems that existed for the sole purposes of sweeps and audience manipulation, why does the happy ending have to reflect the deepest possible kind of realism? :-)
On Friends 10-1: TOW We Don't Get to See: Rachel struggles to read all of "Origin of Species" while Ross discovers what kind of lover he is in a Cosmo quiz. :-) Then they go out and buy a copy of the Kama Sutra because it's classic literature and she's interested in the subject matter.
"abrahammy" wrote in message news:NrCL8.82$[email]...
does
:-)
of
Cosmo
I was just thinking about the issue of compatibility; speaking from my personal experience, of course, my husband and I had very little in common when we first got married. On paper, our marriage should never have worked out since we are from totally opposite backgrounds. I'm not exaggerating! At least we both like to watch Friends. :)
agreed. This is a tv show. The build up in the first few seasons showed how much r and r love each other and should be together. He's her lobster. The doctor pointed out that r and r have nothng in common. Well, what do m and c have in common? She's compulsive, he's quippy, and he's scared of her....yeah sounds like a great relationship. The doctor didn't comment on their relationship. The reason c and m's relationship will work is b/c they love each other. So do ross and rachel.
I agree but Rachel seems to feel otherwise or she would not have been so quick to believe janice and say Ok to Joey whne she mistunderstood his being down on one knee with Rosses grandmothers ring.
The only reason she even said Ok was because she is afrraid Ross will findsomeone else.
I ceartainly would rather see her with Ross whom she loves than Joney whom she likes and would be settleing for.
And what is wrong with a little happy ending and fantasy espically seeing as how this is a TV show.
If Ross ever does marry Rachel she is going to insist on a new wedding dress because he's seen the one that she wore in 101, "The Pilot" (and she wore it again in 420, "TOW All The Wedding Dresses." So, it's already well used.)
I would offer a link to the Frequently Asked Questions, but I seem to have misplaced my own link. If someone could help with a FAQ post it would be much appreciated.
In the meantime, TOW stands typically stands for "The One Where" or "The One With" or something similar. There are only a few episodes that don't start that way.
You are correct about the season/episode numbering system.
I believe this is what you are looking for (it is still there at the given web address, so I assume that Lora is still maintaining it):
Read Before Posting -- alt.tv.friends Netiquette FAQ
This netiquette FAQ is a guide to posting to alt.tv.friends. It does not contain questions about the show itself. For FAQs about the show, see http://www.friends-tv.org/faq.html.
Posted weekly to alt.tv.friends. Available on the WWW at: http://members.aol.com/loraj/atfnet.html
Contents:
Getting Started --------------- 1. Hi! I'm new to Usenet/alt.tv.friends. Anything in particular I need to know? 2. Are there any other Friends newsgroups on Usenet? 3. How do I post? 4. Can I just post a test message to see if my news software works? 5. In what situations should I e-mail an individual instead of posting to the group? 6. Everyone's talking about "TOW This" and "TOW That." What does "TOW" stand for?
Topic Conventions ----------------- 7. I just heard about what happens on next week's show! Anyone want to hear it? 8. What is considered a spoiler and when should I use a spoiler warning? 9. This thread has changed topics completely. Is there anything I should do? 10. This thread started out "Friends"-related, but really doesn't have anything to do with the show anymore. Is is OK to continue it?
Things To Avoid --------------- 11. I've got some great pictures of Jennifer Aniston. Should I post them here? 12. Anyone want to know how to make $50,000 in 30 days? 13. I just saw <insert cast member> in an old <movie/TV show/commercial/music video>. Did you know about that? 14. What about the other Thursday night NBC shows? Can we talk about them? 15. I read in The Enquirer that Lisa Kudrow is a transexual nazi satanist... what do you think?
Keeping the Peace ------------- 16. Some people seem to get too much "into" the show... they take it way too seriously! It's just a TV program... shouldn't they just relax? 17. I just read a post about <fill in your favorite controversial topic> that really made me mad. Can I tell the poster how stupid he or she is? 18. I just read a *really* *really* offensive post. What should I do about it?
GETTING STARTED
---------------
Q1: Hi! I'm new to Usenet/alt.tv.friends. Anything in particular I need to know?
A1: Hello, and welcome to alt.tv.friends, a newsgroup for discussion of the NBC sitcom "Friends." ;>
If you're new to Usenet, the first thing you should do is subscribe to the newsgroup news.announce.newusers and read the posts there. They'll tell you a good deal of what you need to know about Usenet in general. In particular, the following articles will be immediately helpful to a newcomer to Usenet:
A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Usenet
Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette
Rules for posting to Usenet
If you're new to alt.tv.friends, first thing you should do is read the Friends Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) list, which will answer most of the burning questions you have. After you've read the FAQ, you should lurk (read without posting) on the group for a couple of weeks, to get a feel for how this particular newsgroup works.
The Friends FAQ can be found at the following site:
http://www.friends-tv.org/faq.html
Q2: Are there any other Friends newsgroups on Usenet?
A2: Yes... there are five other Friends-related newsgroups:
- uk.media.tv.friends, for discussion of the "Friends" episodes airing in the United Kingdom. Note that the UK group was created *specifically* to help non-U.S. viewers avoid spoilers (advance info on episodes they haven't seen), since other countries tend to be about a season or more behind. Therefore, *don't* go to uk.media.tv.friends and make posts or even offer info about episodes that haven't been aired in the UK yet (their FAQ will tell you where they are in the season at any given time).
- alt.binaries.tv.friends, for posting Friends-related binary files. This is the *only* Friends newsgroup where one should post binary files.
- alt.tv.friends.fanfic, for posting Friends-related fan fiction (original stories featuring the characters on Friends).
- alt.tv.friends.northamerica, This newsgroup is for people who are watching friends in North America who want to discuss friends without worrying about spoiling information for viewers in other parts of the world.
- alt.tv.friends.puke.puke.puke, for people who hate the show. It's a rather dead group. :>
Q3: How do I post?
A3: The exact procedure for posting a message will, of course, depend on your newsreader. However, here are some general guidelines for writing and formatting your post... keeping these things in mind will make your post easier and more enjoyable to read:
- Don't type in all-caps (IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T SHOUT)... it's difficult to read.
- Do use punctuation, sentences, paragraphs, correct spelling, and good grammar when writing your post. Proofread your post before you send it.
- Don't, however, flame (verbally abuse) someone for spelling or grammar mistakes... we all make them, and it can come back to haunt you. Besides, it's rude and more than a little petty.
- Don't flame, period. For some reason, people are usually willing to read and consider polite disagreements of opinion. Conversely, responses like "You're an idiotic moron!" only seem to anger them, make them laugh at you, and/or cause them to ignore you. People are strange like that. :>
- Do insert a carriage return every 75 characters or so (by pressing Enter or configuring your newsreader to do it for you). If your lines run over 80 characters, other people's newsreaders will either wrap your lines strangely or cut the ends off your lines, which makes your post difficult to impossible to read. Keeping the line length at about 75 characters also leaves room for attribution marks, if people quote your message in followups.
- Do use a meaningful Subject line. Believe it or not, posts that have Subject lines such as "READ THIS NOW!" are the most likely posts to be ignored by everyone, because they tell nothing about the content of the post.
- Do quote posts that you respond to. Don't, however, quote the entire post if it's not necessary... just include the minimum amount of text required to let us know what the previous posters were talking about. Don't quote people's ".sig"s (or signature files... lines of text that most posters have added to the ends of each of their posts), unless you're specifically commenting on something in the .sig.
- Do keep your own .sig short. Four lines is considered an adequate line length for a .sig. Huge ASCII art or a forty-line excerpt from a "Friends" script may be interesting the first time people see it, but it becomes old hat by the third time and a downright annoying eyesore by the fifth.
Q4: Can I just post a test message to see if my news software works?
A4: Yes, but *don't* post it to alt.tv.friends. Any and all test posts should be posted to one of the many designated "test" newsgroups, such as alt.test.
Q5: In what situations should I e-mail an individual instead of posting to the group?
A5: If you wish to respond to a post, but know that your response is only going to be of use to one or two people, then *don't* post it... send it via e-mail.
This goes double for requests for items (or anything else) offered on the group... if someone offers something on the newsgroup, *don't* post "Send it to me!" or "Me, too!" Send the *original* poster your request via e-mail. If the original poster asked that responses be posted to the newsgroup, then he or she most likely does not even have what was offered and is just looking to create a big, annoying thread full of "Me, too" posts. Don't fall for it.
This also applies to surveys, to a point. If someone is conducting a survey that doesn't involve any discussion ("Vote for your favorite episode!", for example), answers should ideally be sent to the person conducting the survey, and that person should post the results when finished. A long thread full of posts that contain nothing but single episode titles gets very boring very quickly.
Q6: Everyone's talking about "TOW This" and "TOW That." What does "TOW" stand for?
A6: Most of the "Friends" episode titles begin with the phrases "The One With..." or "The One Where..." Or TOW, for short.
TOPIC CONVENTIONS
-----------------
Q7: I just heard about what happens on next week's show! Anyone want to hear it?
A7: Some do, some don't. To try and make everyone happy, we use SPOILER warnings on posted material that reveals *any* upcoming plots (including copies of TV Guide synopses and summaries of commercials advertising new episodes).
If you have spoilers you want to post, make sure to do the following things:
- Put the word SPOILERS in the Subject line, along with a *vague* topic. If the upcoming event you're spoiling is that Phoebe and Chandler elope on the next episode, *don't* use the subject "Phoebe and Chandler elope! SPOILERS" You've just spoiled it right there. Instead, use something like "Phoebe and Chandler 5/5. SPOILERS" or "May 5 episode. SPOILERS." That way, people know who/when you're talking about, and that spoilers are involved. Also, if the title of the show gives away the spoilers (such as "TOW Rachel Finds Out"), don't include it in the Subject line, either... treat it as spoiler material, as well.
- Use spoiler space in your post. Not everyone has threaded newsreaders, and won't be able to avoid spoilers by the Subject line alone. When you begin your post, repeat that the message contains SPOILERS, and press Enter about twenty-five times, so that there is a large amount of blank space between the beginning of the post and the spoilers.
- If you respond to a post that contains spoilers and also quote the spoilers, leave the spoiler space *in.
Q8: What is considered a spoiler and when should I use a spoiler warning?
A8: There are different types of spoilers that you should be aware of.
- Any information on an upcoming episode that hasn't aired yet. This is very important to use proper spoiler warnings. Once, again, do not put any sort of spoiler information in your thread title. I.E. "Ross is getting married." Instead, write "SPOILER for upcoming US episode. - - Almost half of the members of ATF are not from North America. They see the episodes after they first air. They like to come to this forum and discuss the show once they see these episodes so that they can get a different viewpoint of the show with North American viewers. They usually have questions about pop culture items mentioned in the show. Those who utilize ATF strive to not give out spoiler information to those in the UK since they are a vital part of the newsgroup. So, how long before you can start freely talking about a storyline happening on Friends? It varies, so it is best to keep in tune with what episodes they are currently talking about. So, if you want to post about last weeks show, it is still advised that you put the Episode # along with the word spoiler in your topic heading, as well as the proper spoiler space. It isn't a big deal, and it keeps the forum free of people fighting about spoiler space. - - If you read an article in a magazine or hear news on a tv show that speculates what may happen, try having the following in your thread "Season 8 speculation - may contain spoilers" - Q9: This thread has changed topics completely. Is there anything I should do?
A9: You might want to change the Subject line to reflect the new thread topic, while including the original thread title so people know where the conversation came from. So, if the thread "Joey's girlfriends" has drifted into a discussion about Carol and Susan, change the Subject line to "Carol and Susan (was: Joey's girlfriends)."
Q10: This thread started out "Friends"-related, but really doesn't have anything to do with the show anymore. Is is OK to continue it?
A10: Here's where we stride into the murky grey area between being on-topic, being off-topic, and being a community whose interests sometimes wander. :>
A discussion about Phoebe's favorite movies can quickly turn into fond reminiscing about Xanadu and other cheezy 80's films, which really doesn't have anything to do with "Friends." :> This isn't a problem, as long as the group as a whole doesn't seem to mind this off-track discussion.
However, to help out those people who don't want to be distracted by non-Friends topics, we've used the subject tag "TAN" (for "tangent") in the past. By marking off-topic threads TAN, people who don't want to read them can easily skip them or killfile them. So, if the thread "Phoebe's favorite movies" turns into a discussion about bad 80's films, then change the Subject line to "TAN: Bad 80's films (was: Phoebe's favorite movies)".
However, even when they're marked, TANs *can* get out of hand. If a TAN thread is becoming extremely long, or if other posters request that the discussion be taken to e-mail or a more appropriate newsgroup, try to do so. It's always nice to discover that we have other common interests outside the show, but we are here to discuss the *show*, after all. :>
THINGS TO AVOID
---------------
Q11: I've got some great pictures of Jennifer Aniston. Should I post them here?
A11: No. Because of their sheer size, posting binary files to discussion newsgroups is a *big* faux-pas. If you have a binary file that other people on the newsgroup might like to get, post the file to one of the "binaries" newsgroups (either alt.binaries.tv.friends, or another appropriate "binaries" group if you don't get the Friends group). Then post a pointer on alt.tv.friends telling us what the file is, where you posted it, and what it's called. That way, the people who want the file can go get it, and those who don't will not have to pay to download it.
Q12: Anyone want to know how to make $50,000 in 30 days?
A12: *No*. The various "Fast Cash" schemes are all just rewordings of the old cash pyramid scam, which (despite any false claims to the contrary) *is* illegal because it does *not* work. If you are still tempted by one of these posts, you should first consider the following:
- People are not going to like you if you post Fast Cash scams to the newsgroups they read. If you do, you will likely open your in-box the next day and find a mass of angry letters flaming you to a crisp.
- Most access providers *will* cancel your account if you distribute these posts.
If you see a "Fast Cash" post on the newsgroup, *do not* post a followup. People who post these scams rarely check the newsgroups for responses, especially if the post has been spammed to multiple groups, and you'll just end up adding to the spam.
Q13: I just saw <insert cast member> in an old <movie/TV show/commercial/music video>. Did you know about that?
A13: Chances are, we did. :> The Friends FAQ contains filmographies (which, despite the name, aren't limited to movies) of the six main cast members. You can access the film credits, TV credits, and biographies (when available) of any other actors on the show by checking out the Internet Movie Database at: http://www.imdb.com/
Q14: What about the other Thursday night NBC shows? Can we talk about them?
A14: Because they're on the same night as "Friends", and due to lack of their own newsgroups, discussion of other Thursday night NBC shows has a tendency to leak into alt.tv.friends. However, unless you're talking about a crossover between "Friends" and another show, such discussion *is* off-topic. If someone requests the discussion be taken to e-mail, please comply.
If you wish to talk at length about *any* show that doesn't have its own newsgroup, rec.arts.tv welcomes any and all television discussion.
Q15: I read in The Enquirer that Lisa Kudrow is a transexual nazi satanist... what do you think?
A15: Generally, we don't care. :>
Many of us are interested to hear about the goings-on of the cast members... what other projects they have lined up, bits about their lives they let us in on in interviews, etc. However, just so you're warned, unsubstantiated rumors from questionable sources (including tabloids, word-of-mouth rumblings, outright speculation, or your best friend's ex-wife's second cousin who delivers packages to the set) don't tend to get a very enthusiastic response here.
If you live for dishing the dirt on Hollywood celebrities, though, you'll find hundreds of kindred spirits right around the corner in alt.showbiz.gossip.
KEEPING THE PEACE
-------------
Q16: Some people seem to get too much "into" the show... they take it way too seriously! It's just a TV program... shouldn't they just relax?
A16: No... because "too seriously" is an awfully subjective phrase (not to mention that everyone *realizes* that it's a TV show, so there's no need to remind anyone :> ).
This newsgroup is here for the purpose of discussing *all* aspects of "Friends." That includes character motivations, past continuity, possible developments based on previous characterization... i.e. anything to do with the characters and the show, within the bounds of the fiction in which they've been set.
There's a very broad range of discussions going on here, and chances are you're not going to be interested in all of them. You might even find some that you personally think are silly or a waste of time. No problem... but do be polite and just *ignore* the ones you're not interested in. All the topics here are being discussed for one reason... the posters who participate in them think they're enjoyable and interesting. No one appreciates being patronized and told what should or should not be considered fun, and anyone who tries is just setting him or herself up to be flamed or (more likely) ignored from then on. After all, if a person has no respect for what others are talking about, he or she isn't likely to get any respect in return.
To summarize... be tolerant. If someone is digging deeper into the show than *you* prefer too... let them, and go on to a discussion that you enjoy.
Q17: I just read a post about <fill in your favorite controversial topic> that really made me mad. Should I tell the poster how stupid he or she is?
A17: Well, you *could*, but it's really not very mature and isn't going to do any good.
Like almost all other newsgroups, alt.tv.friends has had its fair share of flamewars involving religion, politics, race, homosexuality, sex, morality, etc. In the interests of the group, try to use these guidelines when posting about sensitive issues:
- Keep the discussion centered around the show or the characters. Topics like those listed above can quickly fly off the handle into very broad discussion that really doesn't have anything to do with the show... and usually, there are more appropriate newsgroups in which to talk about them, anyway.
- Respect other people's opinions. Everyone tends to have very pointed feelings about controversial issues, and you aren't going to change someone's mind based on how loudly you yell your opinion or how many insults you can jam into your post. Stay polite when debating sensitive topics, and don't try to force your viewpoint on someone else... simply state what you think and why, or explain why you disagree with someone else's viewpoint.
- Discuss the subject of a post, but refrain from attacking a poster personally.
Q18: I just read a *really* *really* offensive post. What should I do about it?
A18: Generally, ignore any post that seems specifically designed to offend... because most likely, it *was* specifically designed to offend. Many people like to cause chaos on a newsgroup by posting a message that they know will be offensive to a large amount of people, then hoping to sit back and watch everyone tear into each other. Posts like these are called "trolls," and are responsible for a great many unnecessary flamewars.
The best way to combat trolls is to ignore them. Completely. Pretend that you never read them and that they don't exist. No matter how angry or exasperated or speechless you are, no matter how many excellent arguments or witty retorts you know you could make. Sit on your hands and go on to the next post. The people that post these messages thrive on attention... if that attention is denied them, they'll go away, and we'll all be a lot happier.
Acknowledgements
Thanks to Brad Bethke, Cathi Madden, David Migicovsky, Larissa Markiw and Jim Squire for their help in creating and correcting this FAQ.