An Honest Opinion:TOW The Morning After

I took some quotes in order to make explaining easier:

Rachel: I don�t know, I don�t know. Look, maybe we should take a break.

Ross: Okay, okay, fine, you�re right. Let�s ah, let�s take a break,
      (goes to the door) let�s cool off, okay, let�s get some frozen
      yogart, or something.. (opens the door)

Rachel: No. (Ross is standing in the doorway.) A break from us.

~**~ Rachel broke up with Ross. A break is a break. To take a break means you have broken up...as you can see from below evidence. -----

Chandler: So, what are you doing here? I thought tonight was your big anniversary dinner.

Ross: Yeah, little change in plans. Ahh, we�re gonna break-up instead.

(Chandler and Joey stare at each other in shock.)

~**~ Ross thought(rightfully so) that he had broken up with Rachel. -----

Mark: Rach, are you okay?

Rachel: (on the verge of tears) Yeah, I�m fine.

Mark: You wanna talk, I mean I can come over?

Rachel: No! Really, no, please, please, that�s, that�s okay.

Mark: All right, all right, I�m coming over, and I�m bringing Chinese food.

~**~ This mess is also partly Mark's fault. He forced his so called friendly help on Rachel. ----

Chloe: Still no smile?

(She kisses him. Ross leans back for a second, and then they both kiss, more passionately this time.)

~**~ Chloe is also at fault. She initiated the kiss on the clearly drunk Ross. --- Monica: How�s the big anniversary dinner?

Rachel: Well, we never actually got to dinner.

Monica: Ohhh, nice.

Rachel: No, we kinda broke up instead.

~**~ Rachel explicitly confirms that they "broke up." (in the future she will not be able to admit that she was wrong) ---- Ross: Listen. Oh hey, hey, the important thing was that she meant, she meant nothing to me!

Rachel: And yet she was worth jeopardising our relationship!!

~**~ There was no more relationship. They broke up. ---- Ross: Look, I didn�t think there was a relationship to jeopardise. I thought we were broken up.

Rachel: We were on a break!

Ross: That, for all I knew would, could last forever. That to me is a break-up.

Rachel: You think you�re gonna get out of this on a technicality?

Ross: Look, I�m not trying to get out of anything, okay. I thought our relationship was dead!

~**~ Here Rachel says its a technicality but in the quotes before she clearly says they broke up(talk about being redundant). ----

Ross: Look Rachel, I wanted to tell you, I thought I should, I-I did, and then Chandler and Joey convinced me not to.

~**~Chandler and Joey...sure gave some bad advice...Honesty is the most important thing in a relationship and I give Ross props that he was willing to tell Rachel the truth about sleeping with Chloe.

----
Ross: Don�t you realise none of this would�ve ever happened if I
      didn�t think at that same moment you weren�t having sex with
      Mark?

Rachel: All right. Let�s say I had slept with Mark. Would you have
        been able to forgive me?
...
Ross: (covering his ears and screaming) La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la!
      Okay, okay, yeah, I would have been devastated but, I would
      still want to be with you. Because it�s, I mean it�s you.

~**~ "I mean its you"----how sweet :)
----
Ross: What, now you�re not even talking to me? (moves over to the
      coffee table) Look Rachel, I-I�m sorry, okay, I�m sorry, I was
      out of my mind. I thought I�d lost you, I didn�t know what to
      do. Come on! Come on, how insane must I have been to do
      something like this? Huh? I-I don�t cheat right, I, that�s not
      me, I�m not Joey!

[Cut to Monica's bedroom]

Joey: Whoa-ho-ho! (He looks at Chandler, who gives him a �come on� look.) Yeah, okay.

~**~Joey underlines the fact that he's a cheater(even though we only have
evidence of him cheating 2 or 3 times).
-----
Ross: Look, look, there�s got to be a way we can work past this. Okay,
      (takes a hold of one of her arms.) I can�t imagine, I can�t
      imagine my life without you. (Both of them are starting to cry.)
      Without, without these arms, and your face, and this heart. Your
      good heart Rach, (drops to his knees and hugs her around her
      waist) and, and....

~**~ I  cry at this moment every single time...so heartbreaking to watch.
David Schwimmer and Jennifer Aniston were absolutely wonderful in this
episode. Great acting!
----
Rachel: (crying) No. I can�t, you�re a totally different person to me
        now. I used to think of you as somebody that would never, ever
        hurt me, ever. God, and now I just can�t stop picturing with
        her, I can�t, (Ross stands up and backs away) it doesn�t
        matter what you say, or what you do, Ross. It�s just changed,
        everything. Forever.

~**~ What about Rachel hurting Ross? They love each other and they should have worked things out in my opinion. Marriages survive things like these...i think that they could of also and they aren't married.

Sofya wrote in message news:a34pct$u5i$[email]...

<snip>

My opinion? Technically, they were separated. Emotionally, Ross did something unforgivable. I just jumped right in and now I'm jumping out again :)

"CandiGrrl" wrote in message news:a34pkt$k54$[email]...

again

I agree completely that what Ross did was wrong. Not because he was cheating on Rachel, but because he betrayed his own emotions. I disagree that it was unforgiveable, but I feel pretty strongly that it was wrong.

Okay, that's my two-cents on the subjest for the week. That means it'll cost me about twenty cents more in the coming weeks leading up to his proposal to her in episode 8-24. That's the episode I'm calling "The One Where Ross's Wish Comes True". That's until they give it a real name, of course. It will probably be something more like TOW Ross Moves to Chicago.

David Buehrle wrote in message news:OLn58.333173$[email]...

Yeah, maybe "unforgiveable" was too strong. I couldn't think of a better word.

Chicago.

Or TOW Ross Falls Down An Elevator Shaft?

"CandiGrrl" wrote in message news:a3596v$fkp$[email]...

disagree

One

of

Or, God forbid, TOW Ross Surfs the Shark.

"CandiGrrl" wrote in message news:...

I agree. If we're going to look at it technically, the issue here isn't what led up to the break/break-up, but what happened that night. They had both done some pretty stupid things to each other up to that point. Ross couldn't handle that Rachel was slipping away from him and trying to get a new life away from Central Perk, while Rachel should have made an effort to get away from her job in order to celebrate their anniversary. Their anniversary was basically the last straw.

However, regardless of how we look at their mistakes in 311-315, the fact still is that he slept with another woman right after running away from Rachel. I'm not saying that he's the only one to blame for the break-up, because he's not, but I can understand why Rachel was extremely hurt by it.

Good god, you need a life.

"Sofya" wrote in message news:a34pct$u5i$[email]...

means

willing

OK, I'm sorry. I need more bran in my diet.

"Dennis" wrote in message news:[email]...

"Sofya" schrieb:

[snip: well known R&R break-up cites]

If she hadn't had said & meant this and their relationship were still broke I'd fully blame her for everything. But if you discover such a change or detail unknown before of the person you thought you love it's IMHO at least not wrong to end that kind of relationship. Although there might be one of another kind, maybe even stronger.

Authors are mean. Okay, let's sum up who did which thing wrong:

Ross:
 - was too jealous and omnipresent.
 - had no talk under men with Mark.
 - didn't understand how important her job was for Rachel
   "It's just a job!".
 - went to the wrong place after the start of the break,
   while knowing better what could happen to him
   after break-ups (TOW the Flashback).
   Well, maybe he just searched for J&C there.
 - phoned instead of going back.
 - drank alcohol then (see above).
 - had meaningless sex
   without being really, really drunk,
   otherwise he would have said that
   he didn't remember how Chloe was.
 - didn't try to tell Rachel immediately (see C&J),
 + but tried to.
 - didn't say Chloe was bad in bed [1].
 + was completely honest afterwards.
 - "We were on a break" and similar sentences.

Rachel:
 + was stressed.
 - didn't invest as much time as (such) a relationship needs,
   i.e. her job was more important to her than Ross
   (and wasn't ever again after that episode).
 - said words she didn't mean,
   instead of calming down before or
   having the discussion a different (earlier) time.
 - let Mark come to her.
 - didn't try to find Ross after he found out Mark was there.
 - didn't kill Mark after interrupting the call.
 - seemed to be very true to principles.
 - was too sure she didn't do anything wrong.

Mark:
 - came over to Rachel while knowing better.
   IMHO he _wanted_ to misuse the situation
   as he later that season confesses his crush on Rachel.
 - spoke while Ross' phone call --
   IMHO intentionally.

Chloe: - obviously just wanted an egoistic one-night-stand without thinking, yet knowing, about consequences for others. - told other people about her and Ross.

Chandler & Joey: - didn't take the chance to fetch up Chloe, which was each's plan IIRC. - didn't neither help Ross - nor stopped him from getting drunk and being hooked up. - convinced Ross not to tell Rachel.

Gunther: - told Rachel. Egoistic bastard!

Monica & Phoebe: * No interferences I know of.

It's IMHO mostly Mark and Chloe's fault. I hate them. Oh yes, and Ross' jealousy, but I can't blame the character for that. The only chance to save the relationship at that point would have been a proposal [3]. Although I don't think R&R were ready for this before the incident (neither was the audience), it should have worked after it, if their characters were/became just slightly different.

Christoph -- having serious English tense problems

[1] What about the following? Ross: "I wish it would have been the best sex I ever had, thus there were at least one good thing about all of this. But it wasn't. I even can't hardly remember what it was like. The only thing I know is you're the only one I want." [2] together with original "Don't you realise none of this would've ever happened if I didn't think at that same moment you weren't having sex with Mark?" and mine again: "It was just a stupid, stupid kind of revenge, that I wish so hard to erase from existence, but can't." [2] Okay, "I would still want to be with you. Because it's, I mean it's you." is surely better and should have made Rachel hug him immediately. [3] Yesterday's German rerun episode was TOW Chandler's first proposal (don't remember the correct name). The ending made me sick, as well as the German voices, especially Ross'.

I think that they where just on a break, you know like a pause. It's not right to jump in the sack when you just think that you're relationship is dead. Ofcourse, I understand Ross' position, but I've to agree with Rachel's feelings

~Lizette

Rachel told Monica they she broke up with Ross, explain that.

Sofya

"Lizette" wrote in message news:3c56e63b$0$90047$[email]...