Hi. I've just discovered this ng recently and am really enjoying it. A recent post mentioned the R&R break, and it got me wondering if there was a big debate about it on this board at the time. If so, was there anything like a consensus one way or the other. Personally, my sympathies were with Ross because Rachel was so cold in bringing on the break. Anyway, I know this is ancient history, but I wasn't around this board then so I was just wondering.
Steve S
"Steve A Simon" wrote in message news:[email]...
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You know, I think there has been and there's still tons of folks to discuss this...I'm a long time lurker who occasionally pipes up...however....Last nite I saw the rerun of the one where the break happens. All along, since the original showing of it, I always kinda' thought that Ross was just a big jerk (which I still do think he is) about Rachel saying "break". Yet, when I watched it again, I saw she really did say "we need a break from *us*". So just as I'm reeling from that, understanding finally that HE did think they were on a break, they spend like 8 minutes showing how Rachel is seriously upset about it, and hoping the phone rings so she can talk to him. Then he finally does call, he MUST hear it in the words she says that she wants to talk and 'didn't mean it', but then hear that fella Mark in the background (who came over for chinese food) and wham, Ross hangs up, and promptly goes off to drink more and winds up fooling around w/ that other woman. So, my original thought still stands. Ross was a jerk. They were not on a break, and come to think of it, even if they were, to have slept with someone else within 8 hours of the damn 'break' was just too tacky!!
Just my .02 cents,
Mary
In article , "Mary \(RMR\)" wrote:
Ross didn't even wait as long as 8 hours...
CHANDLER: You slept with somebody three hours after you thought you broke up. I mean bullets have left guns slower!
Tennant Stuart
"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...
Haaaa!!! I had forgotten that line...Did Chandler say that to Ross? Gosh, I wish I didn't have that short term memory loss...
:)
mary
In article , "Mary \(RMR\)" wrote:
Yep, Ross was at Chandler's apartment, spying on Rachel & Mark...
ROSS: I knew it! I knew it! I always knew she liked him! Y'know,
she'd say no, but here we are! Right? We just broke up, first
thing she does!CHANDLER: You didn't just break up.
ROSS: Hey, it's been like three weeks!
CHANDLER: You slept with somebody three hours after you thought you broke up. I mean bullets have left guns slower!
Awww, that's probably because this was not 316 "TOT Morning After", but 319 "TOW the Tiny T-shirt".
Tennant
So, he slept with someone else the night of the break-up! Big deal. It happens all the time. He was hurt, the relationship was over, and he was free to do what he wanted. Why should he have to wait? It's not like she died. She dumped him for crying out loud.
"Banglebabe30" wrote in message news:[email]...
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Yah, uh huh.
NOT!
Haha. Not what I saw happening.
But thanks for your feedback!
Mary
Banglebabe30 wrote in message news:[email]...
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If he slept with someone three hours after they broke up then he must not have cared that much about their relationship! And to beg her to take him back after that! I don't think so. If I were Rachel and Ross had slept with someone right after we had broken up I wouldn't take him back either. To Rachel, she saw that their relationship hadn't been that important to him!! MY Own Opinion.
In article , "Trigger" wrote:
And one of the rare occasions that Ross said "I love you" to Rachel was while another woman was putting her clothes on, in his bedroom.
Tennant
"Trigger" wrote:
If the relationship was so important to *her*, then she shouldn't have broken up with him. This is an important point-- *she* broke up with *him.* She ended it. (To someone like Ross, who was head over heels, the distinction between taking a break and breaking up is a little too subtle too make much difference.) However you put the fine print, his punishment for being so in love with her (and showing it) was that she broke up with him.
The right response when Ross came back apologizing on his knees would be to say: "Hey, we both acted impulsively and put the relationship in danger, but now we realize how much it means to us, so let's try again." Or at least, let's talk about it. That self-righteous tone she took like he'd committed murder or something when she had ended it was too much to take. At least that's how I saw it.
On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:25:02 GMT, Tennant Stuart wrote:
Not going to get in on the debate - I agree that he moved too damn quick, break or not. But it makes me think of something from my life. In HS, my girlfriend and I broke up at like 11:58 pm Dec 31. Good timing. But I ended up meeting someone else, and kissing her, a couple of days later. My old girlfriend was PISSED! Man, how could I have moved on so quickly? I had to retort that at that New Years Party, didn't she SLEEP with some guy? Well, yeah, but that was a one time thing, whatever, but you kissed a girl 2 days later...
I still can't get my mind around the logic on that. And it's been 12 years.
In article , [email] (John R. Rybock) wrote:
You could have told her that you waited until the next year... ;)
Tennant
On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:25:25 GMT, Tennant Stuart wrote:
Finally get a good comeback, and it's 12 years later. Would it be to weird for me to call her out of the blue and say that?
"John R. Rybock":
No, Nike. A girl you remember 12 years after is definitely worth a second try. Carpe diem.
Dr. Christoph
In article , [email] (John R. Rybock) wrote:
Not at all, go for it.
Tennant
"John R. Rybock" wrote in message news:[email]...
R.
The trick to this is to just call and yell out "Oh yeah? Well, at least I waited until the next year!!!" and then just hang up. lol. I can just imagine some girl just sitting there going "what was that all about?" lol
In article , "Amy and Dave" wrote:
Unless she's a big fan of "Friends", and has been reading this...
Tennant
Mary wrote:
Wow, we really see this differently. I saw the episode again last night, too, and I had forgotten how sad it is. Maybe it's because I'm a guy, or -- more likely -- because I'm a Rossophile, but to me the final moments of the ep clearly tip the sympathy balance to Ross.
I can't absolve him completely ... he should never slept with another woman so quickly after breaking up (he thought) with Rachel, even if he did suspect her of being with Mark. He also was a little too pushy about the anniversary thing, which started the whole fight. On the other hand, Ross was dead right when said that it was Rachel who ran for the door when things got tough. Furthermore, she was bitchy and cold about the anniversary dinner -- expecting Ross to understand and accommodate her feelings 100% while choosing to ignore his completely -- and, after the fight, should never have let Mark come over knowing how jealous Ross was. Also, her words DID sound like a break-up, whether she meant it that way or not. On the third hand :-), I can see how hurt she would have been at learning that Ross had had sex with someone else.
So ... up to those last moments, I'd put the blame at 50-50.
However, Rachel's behavior at the end completely turned me off. I'm sorry if I'm offending Rachel/JA fans here -- but how could she have stood there, with Ross on his knees crying and holding her, and still pushed him away, when it was obvious that he was deeply and sincerely sorry and desperately in love with her? I don't like or understand that kind of ruthlessness toward a basically good and decent person who is clearly in emotional torment. How cold and selfish do you have to be to be so unforgiving? She says, "I thought you were someone who would never, ever hurt me." Well, Rach, here's some breaking news: Ross is human. (Actually he's a fictional character, but you know what I mean.) Welcome to the real world, where we sometimes hurt people we love. How emotionally immature do you have to be not to understand that?
I don't hate Rachel and never have, but this episode lowered my opinion of her all over again last night. Sooooo .... I guess you're right. There's a lot to talk about. :-)
--Rollie
<snipped respectfully for bandwidth>
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Agreed!
He also was a little too pushy about the anniversary thing,
"a little too pushy" ??? Agreed, but I would add he was annoyingly horrifyingly DEMANDING! :)
Furthermore, she
Agreed again, very much so. I would say I couldn't agree with you more. The one thing off about the whole thing for me was that suddenly we seem them in this way, where as my memory of them was of a relatively happy couple, then boom, all of a sudden there is this horrible tension and we are I assume, supposed to "know'' that things have been building up to this. I don't think they did that part well but of course, I could've been in a fog or soemthing. It just seems that they should've led up to the tension, job stuff, and Mark issue more.
Also, her words DID sound like a break-up,
hurt
Agreed that she'd be hurt, and also, her words did sound that way too...however, the phone calls after...and her behavior too....
And, I as a woman (hahahahah) would say 70 - 30 (Ross of course, being 70)
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mean.)
Yah, I'm torn about this. I mean, on the one hand, if they showed a history of her with bad relationships and her struggling to break the mold by putting her boundaries in place or if they had shown more of it being in line with her personality, then yes, it would fit. But it seemed too much of a stretch for her, I agree. I don't think her character is that "cold" and unwilling to be 'merciful' or whatever, but I think they had no where else to go with the writing at the time. Just my opinion.
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Agreed again. I appreciated your insight. I think that sometimes when the characters are so well written for years, then suddenly do something so "OUT of character" it's a bit of a shock. I think her behavior (Rachels) was definately the most out of character as we have come to know her during these episodes.
Just a followup! :)
mary
RMR wrote:
I suppose ... but we've seen so, so, so many sitcom episodes where women were angry, hurt, vengeful, etc., because their bf/husband was less than romantic on their anniversary that I think turnabout is fair play.
Well, they have to squeeze a lot into 22 minutes a week. I think there was an effort to show Rachel's growing involvement in her work and Ross' resulting feeling of resentment. I agree that the Mark thing was rushed and silly in its buildup, but they needed an element of sexual jealousy to fuel the events of the breakup, I think.
Oh, WE know she felt, that's very true. The problem is that Ross didn't see her behavior because he wasn't there, and Rachel barely got a word out in the phone call before Mark the jerk starts mouthing off in the background, sparking Ross' fury.
Well ... given Ross' infidelity, I could maybe go to 60-40. :-) She should still have forgiven him, though, or at least been willing to cool off and postpone making a final decision, given how sincerely contrite Ross was.
--Rollie
"Essex9999" wrote in message news:[email]...
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True, and I must say that I personally object to those sitcoms that do this stereotyping. In real life, I have seen many men just as 'romantic' and many women much less so.
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True again. I guess with those 22 minutes there is only so much that they can do. Maybe the bottom line is that I just don't like Ross all that much so probably am more prone to favor the other side of whatever conflict he happens to be on...I enjoy David Scwhimmer(sp?) but not the character....
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Yah, I'm so glad to know I'm not the ONLY one that thought Mark was being a number one butthead.
Yah, okay, I would most graciously accept that...60/40. Might even notch it up a little (not much). I think postponing decisions should be a rule in real life, but then again, we don't have to do it all in those 22 minutes. Thankfully!
:)
mary
"Mary \(RMR\)" wrote:
Very interesting to hear that. I've been saying for years that men are often the more romantic ones in relationships even though it goes against the stereotype.
"Steve A Simon" wrote in message news:[email]...
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I actually had a woman who worked for me once, who used to complain her husband was 'too' emotive.
Takes all kinds. Luckily! haha!
:)
In article , "Mary
PHOEBE: I'm dumping him today.
MONICA: What?! You said he was sweet!
PHOEBE: He is sweet. He's too sweet. He calls me all the time.
(Mimicking him) "So did-did you get home from work okay?"
"Did-did you get out of the shower okay?"MONICA: Just don't pick up your phone.
PHOEBE: Then he comes over! (Mimicking him) "I'm so worried about you". Uck! Be a man!
Tennant
"Steve A Simon" wrote in message news:[email]...
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The Break is the biggest controversy in Friends history. The debates have been endless, sometimes acrimonious. There has never been a consensus.
That is because there will always be different opinions on it - they all vary, not only because there opinions but because people have different ethical and moral standards.
Some people, no matter what "rachel" said would never have done what ross did, but some would.
That's just how life is.
I0\/E @IW@YS, -- Christineee AkA "Mrs. Duke Castiglione" [inside joke ;p]
LETS GO METS in '02!
"abrahammy" wrote in message news:0DBf8.25133$[email]...
We have agreed to disagree in my house. We just don't discuss it at all because we see it different ways and after talking about it for hours and hours and hours we weren't gettng anywhere so we just dropped it.
"Amy and Dave" wrote:
It's fascninating to me that people can see the same episode so drastically differently. It almost reminds me of OJ that way. :-) Do you think opinions break down almost entirely by sex?
"Steve A Simon" wrote in message news:[email]...
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Verrrry interesting point. When the OJ thing was going on, my brother in law and I had a major disagreement about it. He believed it was all about the 'witchy' ex-wife. Now of course, he has come to his senses and realizes he WAS guilty.
:)
Mary
[email] (Steve A Simon) wrote in message news:...
I guess all that controversy is evidence of how well written that episode was. The whole buildup to the breakup was engineered to be as ambiguous as possible. OK, so it was not perfect; there were a couple of far-fetched plot twists (regarding Ross and Rachel's reactions). But warts and all, the episode was very effective in generating mixed responses from audiences.
"Julio Duarte" wrote in message news:[email]...
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After all, controversy breeds interest. Have you ever seen ANY interesting show that didn't have some level of controversy in it?
"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:rDBh8.37042$[email]...
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Look at Will & Grace, in my opinion its been funnier than Friends this season. Hilarious show.
Sofya
"Sofya" wrote in message news:a6e1g1$9dm$[email]...
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I agree it's a very funny show, but there's always some conflict. Jack does something stupid, Karen does something mean, Jack tells his boss that Will is straight and wants her . . . controversies. They are most effective when wrapped up with honest feelings and understanding. It's ultimately a "feel good" show after all.
In article , "Amy and Dave" wrote:
Which way is Amy, and which way is Dave?
Tennant
"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...
"Amy
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I believe that Ross was wrong in sleeping with someone so quick after they "broke up". i think they may have (in their minds) broken up for a couple of hours, but since they talked on the phone and both agreed that they want to work on it, then they were still (in a way) together. It is really hard to explain how it is in my head. i just think that what he did was wrong even if they were completely broken up (which I don't believe they were). i think they were in a big fight, nothing more than that. Dave believes that Rachel is wrong because the word "break" was used. He still thinks that Ross was wrong in what he did, but still thinks they were broken up.
In article , "Amy and Dave" wrote:
Thanks Amy, I agree with you, how you feel is more important than one word.
Tennant
"Amy and Dave" wrote:
Reading your post made me realize what bothered me so much about this whole thing. No question there was a lot of gray here, which is realistic since there's lots of gray often times in real-world relationships. But Rachel acted like the whole thing was black & white, like Ross was a monster and she the poor suffering victim. Since she had a lot of responsibility for what happened, I thought she should have met Ross halfway, or I'll settle for a quarter way. But I didn't think that Ross should have been made out to be clearly the one wearing the black hat. So, to me, Rachel's character came out looking callous and self-righteous. I would have rather seen her acting like she saw the gray too.
On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Steve A Simon stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -
Oh boy, was there ever! Any regularly since, too!
No.
[I cower in the corner, fearing the consequences of this request] :)
Just to add more fuel: I think that a person's POV on this debate says a lot more about their own personal relationship history than anything else.
[email] (Jaime) wrote in message news:...
In my opinion.... I thought that Rachel and Ross were not on a break until that morning when Rachel said to Monica "We kinda broke up instead" That shows that she thought the fight was more then just a fight. Still I place most of the blame for the destruction of the relationship on Ross. Here is the women he has loved since high school and the moment she says "break" he is sleeping with somebody else. He should have known that Rachel wouldn't have been sleeping with Mark. He should have trusted her more. I also think that Ross should have told Rachel because she might have took it better if he was just honest. I know Joey and Chandler convinced Ross not to tell her, but he was most likley looking for an excuse not to tell her and they gave it to him. I say the blame is 70-30 on Ross.
In article , [email] (Caitrion) wrote:
Joey & Chandler convinced Ross not to tell Rachel that he'd immediately had sex with another woman, but their advice would have been quite the opposite if Ross had not left the club in such a hurry to get laid...
JOEY: We figured when we couldn't find you, you'd gone home to make up with Rachel. Which is probably what you shoulda done. Huh?
Tennant
Tennant Stuart wrote:
That part of the ep surprised me a little. I thought Joey & Chandler would be more sympathetic to Ross's situation, even if obviously it turned out to be a disastrous move to sleep with someone else that night.
In article , [email] (Steve A Simon) wrote:
The guys were all alone, so Joey & Chandler were giving it straight to Ross. That's what best friends are for. They're not yes-men.
Tennant
In article , [email] (Jaime) wrote:
Alright, how would that go then?
Tennant Stuart