Ross as a parent...

Although I previously posted that I would refrain from posting to ATF I feel compelled to violate that statement in order to post the following evidence.

In the episode 511 TOW all the resolutions we are shown how Ross prioritizes his responsibilities as a parent. On the night he has visitation with Ben, he does not spend the visitation time with his son. Instead he chooses to leave his son with a babysitter so that he may have a first date with a woman he just met. It is irrelevant that the babysitter is in fact the child's aunt Monica, because the point is the child's father is not with him. The point is the father has not only separated the child from his other parent, but has also placed more importance in going out with a stranger than in spending quality time with his child.

This is not the case of a parent who spends 7 nights a week, 52 weeks a year with their child and chooses to hire a babysitter so they can go out. It IS the case of a parent who voluntarily chooses to leave his child alone on the night he has visitation rather than schedule his personal activities on a night that does not conflict with visitation.

One does not need to read psychology text books in order to grasp the significance of the child who expected to spend time visiting dad and was set aside for a stranger. So we are left with Ben drawing a picture of the absent father who choose not to spend the allotted visitation time with his son.

To me these actions are not indicative of a parent who places the proper priority on their child. In addition the family law court division,in the United States, heavily frowns on this type of behavior.

Katie

"res0vdhd" wrote in message news:P7WG8.6672$[email]...

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evidence.

I will give credit where it is richly due. That is an excellent, well-considered rebuttal. If Ross is leaving Ben with his friends during his own visitation time, one can indeed make quite an argument that he is not committed to him.

And in that case, if we are taking the hardest possible line on Ross - which is entirely valid - then we should probably take the hardest possible line on Rachel, too, which is that she's going to leave her on the changing table unprotected while she throws stuff away. Emma will get injured in her care.

Consider also that when Joey babysat Ben, he left him on a bus and had a 50/50 shot of bringing home the wrong child.

This means Emma, with two very badly flawed natural parents and an even more terrifying potential stepfather, is in very deep trouble indeed and her grandparents need to take her. Oops, one of those grandparents is Judy. Judy does *not* treat female children well. The only possible solution is either Sandra, Monica or Child Protective Services. (I am not attempting to be sarcastic here; you raised a point worthy of a court of law. Great argument.)

Katie - that was absolutely the best possible argument you could possibly have come up with. If we hold all the characters up to the entirely valid standard you set for Ross, about the only one I think would really pass muster is Monica. (Chandler, remember, left Ben on the bus.)

The only hope for Emma in this case is that she's in a sitcom and somebody is going to improve their expertise, level of responsibility or committment with no particular explanation from the script. I think it's safe to say that, no matter which couple ends up being her full-time parents, this will probably happen.

Nicely done.

On Thu, 23 May 2002 02:40:49 GMT, "abrahammy" wrote:

Do you not remember Monica *Bang*?

"CleV" wrote in message news:[email]...

possibly

valid

Accidents happen. Hees naut pernamently damagd.

In article , "abrahammy" wrote:

Don't forget that Monica banged Ben on the head.

And maybe Sandra made Rachel what she is today.

Tennant

"res0vdhd" wrote in message news:P7WG8.6672$[email]...

feel

evidence. "res0vdhd" wrote in message news:P7WG8.6672$[email]...

feel

evidence.

I will give credit where it is richly due. That is an excellent, well-considered rebuttal. If Ross is leaving Ben with his friends during his own visitation time, one can indeed make quite an argument that he is not committed to him.

And in that case, if we are taking the hardest possible line on Ross - which is entirely valid - then we should probably take the hardest possible line on Rachel, too, which is that she's going to leave her on the changing table unprotected while she throws stuff away. Emma will get injured in her care.

Consider also that when Joey babysat Ben, he left him on a bus and had a 50/50 shot of bringing home the wrong child.

This means Emma, with two very badly flawed natural parents and an even more terrifying potential stepfather, is in very deep trouble indeed and her grandparents need to take her. Oops, one of those grandparents is Judy. Judy does *not* treat female children well. The only possible solution is either Sandra, Monica or Child Protective Services. (I am not attempting to be sarcastic here; you raised a point worthy of a court of law. Great argument.)

Katie - that was absolutely the best possible argument you could possibly have come up with. If we hold all the characters up to the entirely valid standard you set for Ross, about the only one I think would really pass muster is Monica. (Chandler, remember, left Ben on the bus.)

The only hope for Emma in this case is that she's in a sitcom and somebody is going to improve their expertise, level of responsibility or committment with no particular explanation from the script. I think it's safe to say that, no matter which couple ends up being her full-time parents, this will probably happen.

Nicely done.

Generally, visitation falls on a weekend, which can make it hard to find other times to go out. It is good for a child of separated parents to spend time with the secondary carers extended family also. While I don't usually like to read too much into TV shows, your comments about family courts angered me, are you saying that on the other 10-12 days of the fortnight that the childs mother should not go out also? and leave the child with a baby-sitter? Maybe if you had ever been in this situation you would not be so condemning of people who are.

"Robrell" wrote in message news:3cec5d8e$0$2525$[email]...

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Actually, Robrell, I think she has been in this situation. In another thread I decided that if only Ross OR Rachel got to be a primary care giver, Ross was preferable. I called Rachel, somewhat harshly, (though I still believe it) an unfit parent and suggested that Ross should be the one to get custody; I based this decision on what we saw of her knowledge vs. his the week Sandra flew in for the baby shower.

This was Katie's rebuttal, that's all. She thinks Ross is the one who should not have custody, and here she dug up evidence why. I still believe that Ross knows more about child care than Rachel does, but one can indeed argue that Ross should not have been using his visitation time to go on a date.

"Robrell" wrote in message news:3cec5d8e$0$2525$[email]...

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condemning

(1) I am a single parent of two children. I am definitely in this situation and have been for over 6 years.

(2) I do not believe in un-necessary separations during the formative years. I think when we make the decision to be a parent we are choosing to put that child first. That means putting aside some of our personal interests that cannot be done with the child.

(3) It is good for the child to spend time with extended family, however this should be done with the parent present. Many people have different ideas on how a child should behave. It is difficult enough for parents who live in separate houses to meet on common ground and hold the child to the same rules. It is nearly impossible to get extended family to do things your way even when you are present.

In fact 6 years ago when I had my son I quit my 42k a year job to stay home with my child, because I believed working 40+ hours a week and commuting an additional 10 hours a week was TOO much time away from my son. After a few years my funds did run out. I could have returned to work, but I still felt the time away from my child would be excessive. Instead I returned to school where I am working on an engineering and physics degree. This only requires to be away from my son for 15 hours a week.

I am constantly complemented on the verbal abilities of my children and their behavior in public. I believe this is because from a young age I have taken them to events where children are not normally taken. Such as the operas, art museums, scientific lectures and etc. There are numerous activities a person can do with a child. If the mother is interested in dating another person that person could come on activities that include the child. This allows a relationship to develop more slowly and be based on more important things than lust. Of course this rules out casual dating, because I do not approve of significant others running in and out of the child's life. My children and I are a package deal. Personally I am not interested in or care to become involved with someone who is not willing to put the best interests of my child first.

As for the courts, it is common in my area for them to frown on a parent taking visitation and not spending that time with the child. My court order does in fact say I can not leave my son with anyone other then a licensed child care giver or facility. My ex was abusive, I believe, he had this inserted as a way to control my activities. I did not disagree, because I do not believe in un-necessary separations. Several years later when he was having his girlfriend pick up our child and was not home at anytime during the visitation I had our court order amended to require him to be with our child at all times during visitation. It drove me up the wall for him to take our son two weeks and not even be within 100 miles of our child for one week of that time.

In my area, visitation is generally one weeknight and every other weekend. This does leave time for both parents to date if they want. I don't believe dating is limited to Friday and Saturday night unless you are into the party scene. And honestly I do not think the party scene is a place for a parent to be.

This is my personal view on how I think I should commit to being a parent. I am not saying anyone is a bad parent if they do not have the same level of commitment. Except during visitation I do believe the parent should be required to remain with the child.

Katie

"res0vdhd" wrote in message news:yu%G8.11122$[email]...

the

I'm with you on everything except this part. I don't think the kids should be introduced to new honeys until things become more serious. I have known so many kids who were hurt by meeting too many new "uncles". :)

"res0vdhd" wrote in message news:P7WG8.6672$[email]...

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evidence.

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(This got a lot longer than I expected, especially since I don't disagee with original point. My appologies for the length, but here it is anyway.)

I think you make a good point, except that we don't know the situation during this episode. Why is Ben with his dad that day? Is it a normal visitation or did Carol and Susan have to leave the city at the last minute for an unexpected death in the family or something like that?

If they had to leave, did they all agree that Monica could handle watching Ben for an hour or so before bedtime while Ross kept his date with Elizabeth Hornswaggle? We really don't know. I would say that it seems reasonable that Susan and Carol approve of Monica's methods in watching Ben since we've seen no evidence of disapproval, even though we don't know what's going on in this case.

We also don't know how much time Ben spends with his Aunt Monica when he's with his Dad. Perhaps he spends a lot of time with Monica and Ross together. After all, when *we* see the show, Ross is at Monica's place a lot (as are all the other friends)! So, it seems reasonable that Ross might bring Ben along when we don't see them.

While I'm still playing Devil's advocate here, perhaps Ross had 50% custody at that time, or maybe he had custody of Ben for the entire summer. The situation would be a little different if it wasn't an occassional visitation.

Unfortunately, everything I've mentioned is supposition. I have no hard evidence to support Ross as a good father beyond what the characters have said on the show. For example, in TOW The Proposal, Phoebe is trying to decide between Ross and Joey as her "backup" when she says, "Ross is a good father, but Joey has a boat. This is hard!"

Frankly, we haven't been privy to the custody details, nor all the little things that happen when we aren't watching. Ultimately, I think we see WAY too little of the situation to really know what kind of father Ross is. Nevertheless, I think the discussion is certainly valid as it stimulates thought about what we all might do in our own realities. So, thanks Katie.