Monica and Chandler. Where did it all begin?

Okay. Monica and Chandler's relationship officially began almost 2 years ago at Ross's wedding? Correct? Okay. But the question of this coupling is when their relationship really began?

1. One instance would be in the episode TOW the flashback. We see the friends before they became friends. Towards the end of the show we see Chandler comforting Monica after finding out that Pheobe moved out of their apartment to move in with her grandmother because she couldn't stand Monica's clean pickiness. The hug lasted a while but then they ceased and continued with their ordinary lives. But, they felt something with that hug. Right?

2. Another instance. In the episodes TOW the beach and TOW the Jellyfish, Chandler was trying to pick up Monica. Insisting that he would be a great guy to go out with. He failed, unfortunately, but who knows if Monica was thinking about it.

3. And finally in the episode TOW all the free porn, in Chandler and Joey's old apartment(Monica and Rachael's new apartment) we see Monica and Chandler cuddling in the big chair. My reaction? What's this? They hadn't started going out yet, and yet, they are cuddling like a cute little couple. There was plenty of room to sit, but they managed to sit together in the big comfy chair? Again, were they thinking about each other at the time?

I find that these three examples are the producers telling us that this relationship was going to happen but weren't sure how or when until TOW ross's wedding came about.

Wasn't there a Thansgiving episode (I think it was TOW all the Thanksgivings---is that even a title) where we see that Monica's got a crush on Chandler?

Vishal

Right. Missed that one. Then Chandler tried to pick Monica up after she lost all that weight and she accidentally cut off one of his toes in an attempt to turn him on with a kitchen knife. Good one.

In article , "Vishal Ailawadhi" wrote:

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Except the Thanksgiving flashback was shown *after* they got together. Not saying that it mightn't be an indication, but we all knew that they were a couple when we saw it, and the writers knew what had happened. Because nobody else knew at the time, and Monica kept on telling Chandler that he *really* didn't want to know about this one.

[email] wrote:

Elspeth wrote in message news:[email]...

Not

Yeah, but that's just a technicality. If we are to believe that the "Friends" world really exists, then whether or not C & M were together when the story was told is irrelevant...

Vishal

[email] wrote:

We have evidence that the producers were interested in hooking up C&M by the end of season two. Within the Friends universe, it is clear Chandler was examining his feelings for Monica by the end of season three. But he had the whole Kathy saga to go yet. C&M's relationship "really" began at Ross' wedding. (After all, Ross' ten year crush on Rachel didn't make their affair "really" begin ten years early, did it? Same thing.)

In article ,

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True, but only Ross expressed feelings for Rachel. Rachel didn't have a clue until 10 years later when Chandler blabbed to her about it.

With Chan and Mon, they both flirted on and off, but Chandler officially made the first step in establishing that relationship.

[email] wrote:

Yes, and then even then, they didn't actually get together until after 1. Rachel pined for Ross 2. Ross discovered she liked him 3. Ross blew it 4. Fate intervened and Rachel forgave him. That took six months.

And was rebuffed. Monica rejected him repeatedly. Not as nastily as Rachel rejected Ross, but Monica rejected Chandler's initial advances on the grounds that he "wasn't boyfriend material, he was Chandler" and then would "always be the guy who peed on me." Their relationship did no more begin at the beach than Ross and Rachel's began at that first kiss in Central Perk.

What about TOW Ross finds out? I saw the rerun yesterday and Monica was trying to get Chandler to lose some weight. At one point, she *encouraged* him to do five more push-ups by telling him :" I'll flash you." And at the end, when Monica was feeling down, Chandler comforst her with a hug (ok, maybe that's pushing a bit...but....) JRP

[email] wrote:

In the previous post, the mostly harmless JRP claimed:

I think she would have said to any of the other guys too.

Yeah, after Chandler talked her into this depression..;-)

Bram

In article , Bram wrote:

I always thought that was rather cruel of Chandler.

Tennant

In the previous post, the mostly harmless Tennant Stuart claimed:

Well, I guess it can be quite an annoyance when someone doesn't buy 'no' for an answer. Though indeed, it was a bit harsh to push it that far.

Bram.

Tennant Stuart wrote:

Lighten up! She was fine afterwards! ;) JRP

In article , JRP wrote:

She was all bright & beautiful, his perky little energy train, and he just *deflated* her with his cunning wiles...

Tennant

For what it's worth, I thought that was a pretty unkind thing to do as well, and NOT a good indication of them having any future romance!

claire abraham wrote in message news:[email]...

of course it was bad taste of him but the main reason he did it was the comedy reason.. and it also underlines how immature Chandler was at that point of the series.. but from maturing as a man and his experience "through the tunnel" with Janice.. (or leaving her behind) he became the kinda guy that Monica could consider having a relationship with. not that she ever thought about it before London..... I think she got that desperate that she realise she was looking too far a field for Mr Right.. cos he simply was just accross the hall "arhh.. the beauty of love" I'm forver the romanticised.." *spell??* just like Rachel never considered Ross really to be more than a friend until she found out she meant so much more to him. she hadn;t allowed herself to think of him as anything more until she was given the opportunity to act on any possibility of love...

someone have a go at me now.. I am bound to have offended someone *smiles.. give it your best shot !*

Helena !!

Oh, I don't exactly go around thinking about what a bad person Chandler is for what he did in one episode four years ago. I am just saying that this particular episode is a poor example of how far back their romantic feelings go.

Look, let's look at the show as it actually, specifically advances their relationship.

In the beginning, Monica has a crush on Chandler. He insults her, and she harbors a grudge for a year. In her clumsy attempts to get even, she injures him. End of romantic inklings for awhile.

By the time of the Flashback, they have become good friends, and something subliminal may still be in the back of their minds as he hugs her in her towel. However, if either feel anything, neither is ready to admit it.

Through the first two seasons, they are a model of a really good, solid platonic male/female relationship. By the end of the second season, the writers have realized this and have thought about exploring it. Chandler begins to speak his mind at the end of season three, but Monica really doesn't see him like that and actually tells him he's not a boyfriend - he's Chandler. Later, he becomes the "guy who peed on me."

The germ is still there. Monica helps Kathy seduce him. Later on, she is one of the people he wants to fantasize about sex with as he recovers from Kathy. (Mind you, so is Rachel.)

By the end of season four, they are sufficiently attracted to each other to sleep together, but it takes them a few days to accept the idea that they want to try to make a relationship out of it. They are so insecure about this that they keep their feelings a secret for six months, and aren't prepared to say "I love yous" that they are comfortable with until then. That's when everybody finds out. By the end of that year, they are deeply in love, and ready to marry, but R&R's rash behavior scares them and they do something a little less permanent. By now, most reservations have subsided, and they are finally comfortably, completely in love.

And I really wish the writers would show us that Monica is aware of how lucky she is. That was one of MNL's things - he felt people should be grateful for their blessings, and felt that Monica was one person who usually was. It seems quite wrong that she'd be so hard on Chandler now.

In article , claire abraham wrote:

A masterly summary, Claire. Well done. :)

Tennant

Tennant Stuart wrote...

I agree =)

Adeline.

===== "Your timing couldn't be better, I'm puttin' out fires all over the place." ~Joey Tribbianni, "Friends"

"I'm right! I'm right! Am...I...right??" ~Chandler Bing, "Friends"

So do I , I even saved it.

Claire would you mind if I used some of that for my web page?

~Act

Sure. Be my guest. Heh. Not bad for an R&R enthusiast who can't stand Monica....

Yea I was surprised. Of course I will be adding a few of my own thoughts into it. :o) I'll give you some credit.

~Act

It's called a completely objective review, with no agenda at all.

That's fine - as long as you note where my analysis ends and your additions begin.

I might have to intergrate. So I'll just say with some help from Claire or some ideas are Claire's..somethign like that. I dont think I'm going to do word for word more of using the same ideas.

~Act

claire abraham wrote...

"You are the best listener I have ever met You are my best friend, best friend with benefits What took me so long?

I've never felt that healthy before I've never wanted something rational I am aware now I am aware now..." ~Alanis Morissette, 'Head over feet'

I think the above looks like something Monica might want to say if the writers let her see how happy she is.

Adeline.

===== "Your timing couldn't be better, I'm puttin' out fires all over the place." ~Joey Tribbianni, "Friends"

"I'm right! I'm right! Am...I...right??" ~Chandler Bing, "Friends"

What was this about?

Thanks for the explanation. I don't think I ever saw that one. It seems they only have a few favorite syndicated episodes which they like to play over and over again such as TOW the Flashback, TOW The Morning After, TOW Ross' Wedding, TOW The Poker Game, etc.

NP

Where do you live?

~Act

I live in the NYC area where I watch the re-runs on WB11 on 7 and 11 p.m. Sometimes it seems like they will repeat the same episode after 1 week!

Yea I watch the same. Right now they are being good ACTUALLY going in order. TOW the Jellyfish is going to play at 11pm not next thursday but the thursday after. So the 11pm is in season 3. The 7pm is in the end of season 4 almost 5.

~Act

for a person who (I may wrongly) consider as not really liking C+M being together.... you wrote a lot in their favour I understand why people don;t like them together.. it hjas completely changed the show.. and many people aggree in a not positive way, but despite the poorer episodes I still love the show. I think I actually have an obsession with the group phenomenon (even though many say they are not really such a groups as the glory days of season 1). and the characters themselves.. especially my favourites (Chandler, Joey and Monica) Chandler because - I love his look on life, and he has a very attractive character. I tend to try to be witty and clever like him, but unlike him, I don;t succeed. he's above all my favourite, and I want him to be happy !!

Joey - he's very sweet.. may appear foolish and a womaniser.. but he is a genuinely loving character. he has become very very funny as the series progresses, and I truelly love his funny (and yet not very good) little pieces of story he is given.

Monica - the friend I always wanted, the person I can understand.. and although many don't like her in season 6.. I know what it is like to be unpopular, and I'm obsessive too.. well. I'm tidy though and neat though !! I'm just pleased she found love that lasts. *fingers crossed*

In article , "Helena" wrote:

609 "TOW Ross Got High"...

CHANDLER: I can be pretty charming, babe, I won YOU over, didn't I?

MONICA: I don't think you'll ever get my parents that drunk!

Tennant

Kinda of irrevalvent but I loved when he said babe.

She was just saying that..

When you are drunk you tend to let your inner deep feelings out more.

You dont repress them.

~Act

Activia wrote:

Really????????? Self awareness and intoxication are not two things that usually go hand and hand. The only thing I seem to be aware of when I'm drunk is that I'm really horny.

Chris

Have you ever been sober and watched others that are drunk? They say anything that is on their mind, and do also.

~Act

Activia wrote:

You're right. Like....."Hey, I bet I can spell my name in the snow faster than you!"

Chris

Well yea I said it can be about anything. Sometimes its about repressed feelings for someone. lIke you will have more "guts" or you are in a state of mind where you dont care about consequences so will do crazy things taht you have always wanted to do.

~Act

In article , [email] wrote:

Funny thing is, *Rachel* and Chandler cuddled in that chair in 410 "TOW the Girl from Poughkeepsie", he even kissed her. And in the same episode, Monica kissed *Joey*. These are very close friends.

In 424 TOW Ross's Wedding (part 2), Chandler & Monica went beyond that.

Tennant

ahh thanks Tennant.. see I knew I saw them in the same chair, plus numerous times they have been cuddling together on the couch when there was plenty of room to be at least a centimeter (3 yards max) apart from each other. That is just a few, when I get the tapes I'll pick them all out for you,

But their relationship didn't start really till TOW Ross's Wedding..

Flirting doesnt count as a relationship in my opinion. Or being slightly closer than just friends, still they weren't a couple..

~Act

Tennant Stuart wrote in message ... |In article , [email] wrote: |

| |Funny thing is, *Rachel* and Chandler cuddled in that chair in 410 "TOW |the Girl from Poughkeepsie", he even kissed her. And in the same episode, |Monica kissed *Joey*. These are very close friends. | |In 424 TOW Ross's Wedding (part 2), Chandler & Monica went beyond that.

Unless they're just very VERY close friends.

| | |Tennant | |-- |Greetings to family, friends, and neighbours from [email] | |

wrote in message news:8espfb$t0m$[email]...

I seem to remember more than one instance where C&M were sitting close together on either a couch or a chair, but maybe I'm wrong.

Well the way it began was with monica being interested in chandler while he was in college. Chandler rebuffs her, monica gets mad at him. Chandler of course gets interested after she loses the weight, kinda loses interest after the toe thing, however living so close after college bred a friendship and familiarity, so chandler is much closer to her than say rachel or phoebe, and of course monica is closer to him than Joey come lately. Which i think explains the all the couch cuddling that we see in various episodes, and why it is that chandler is the one to comfort monica after phoebe moves out. Possibly seeing an opening, chandler proposes that they 'get together' when they're older and have a child together at ben's birth. Later on monica undertakes a 'chandler improvement' project. with the aforementioned 'flash' incident, and of course the beach episode. London itself was just the culmination of what had been building for years

Nope, you're absolutly right!

~Act

This is actually the point I was trting to get across with my post below (the thole ross & rachel/chandler & monica thing)

Z.

wrote in message news:8espfb$t0m$[email]...

well.. actually it was just the comfy towel.. but it did suggest there was a stroing closeness to them

remember.. she just considered him to be the funny guy from accross the hall.. she never thought of him as anything more.. but maybe might of liked it. I read in a very old interview with CCA she was aksed why Monica had never hooked up with Joey or Chandler, and she said " Monica's is too smart to sleep with Joey, and Chandler doesn;t klnow how to have a relationship" her exact-ish words.. But then Chandler learnt what it was like to go through the tunnel with Janice.. and matured.. and so in season 3 going on 4 he knew how to have a relationship.. and she realised he knew after London !!

nally in the episode TOW all the free porn, in Chandler and

yep.. but this is just their closeness being illustrated.. all the characters are very close.... but these two had a very special friendship. if the couple broke up (like so many people want) then unless it was a very gentle break up (highly unlikely) they would have a lot of difficuilty remaining friends...

yes.. the very beginning or C+M-ism. but one of my friends predicted in season 2 or 3 that they would hook up. . what I like ios the suddeness of it all, it was not done tackily, it was done so it did not undermine the major importance of R+R. it was in stark contrast.. and it was the fact that your best male friend can become something so much more to you than that !!

so sweet !!

[email] wrote:

You missed many, I saw in one other episde that they were sitting in a chair together in the big apartment, unfortunitly I dont remember which one, but it was way before the one with the free porn.

~Act