Ross and Rachel: Any hope left?

S P O I L E R S P A C E J U S T I N C A S E

I just finished watching the recent top 10 episode DVD box set. When I was done, I couldn't help but think about how badly the writers have totally destroyed these two. These two were so great together. But now, we get silly storylines such as Rachel's fling with her assistant. Last year we had Ross with Elizabeth. These storylines are horrible and just a total waste of time. For the life or me, I cannot understand why the writers continue to ignore these two. They barely have any scenes or storylines together anymore. So my question to all of you R&R fans who are still out there: Do you still believe these two will get back together? I think the show is really struggling right now and now more than ever, the show needs these two back together. Their chemistry onscreen is still unmatched by any other pairing. I think they are the spark that this show is desperately missing right now. Any opinions out there or has everyone stopped caring?

Robert

I think you're about to receive a barrage of posts saying that they don't really care anymore because the show has gotten so bad that they don't care about the show anymore...yet they still find time to go on the Internet and post on a newsgroup about a show that they love to hate.

My personal opinion is there will be an R&R cliffhanger for C&M's wedding. It'll get dragged out until February or, more likely, May of 2002, where they finally get together. Will it be the same as it was three years ago? Hell no, what with Mental Geller (even though he's lightened up) and Rachel the Horny Slut being the couple, instead of Ross and Rachel.

And another opinion of mine...those who have come to truly hate (or so they say) the show are the ones who are the biggest R&R fans. I'm a huge fan of R&R, but I realize that the show is in its seventh year, and it's normal for the quality to sink a little. Personally, this season has been better than last. Also...since "Survivor" is airing opposite "Friends," I think that the writers might have to hurry for a big reunion to gather ratings.

Mike the Real American Hero wrote:

ROFL! Gulity! Force of habit, I think, and I'm genuinely fond of a lot of the people here. A deja news search would probably reveal that my output has drastically decreased, however.

Chandler and Monica fans certainly have more to be positive about; the aspect of the show that they love most is now center stage and will remain so. If you love watching Perry and Arquette be gooey, you will like Friends as it now exists. Fair enough. Tennant says Monica's less obnoxious than she used to be. That's possible.

It WOULD take an R&R reunion - not a tease, not another chase, not another fake, but a REAL reunion for me to tape Friends rather than Survivor in February.

Had you in mind for this one, too, Claire. No offense, I hope. :)

Mike the Real American Hero wrote:

Well my big hope here is that if they do get back together, we will see the return of a normal Ross and a normal Rachel. I hope it doesn't take as long as you predict. Their reunion, if it ever happens, is long overdue.

I know a lot of people think Friends will lose this ratings matchup. I doubt it. Survivor was great the first time around but I think the novelty has worn off. With that being said, I agree that a ratings challenge would be good because it would most likely force the writers to do something big, as in R&R big.

Robert

Nah. That would be too logical. If the ratings drop, we'll be seeing:

715 - TOW Chandler and Monica's Wedding Rehersal 716 - TOW Chandler and Monica's Wedding Part I 717 - TOW Chandler and Monica's Wedding Part II 718 - TOW Chandler and Monica's Wedding Part III 719 - TOW Chandler and Monica's Wedding Part IV 720 - TOW Chandler and Monica's Honeymoon Part I 721 - TOW Chandler and Monica's Honeymoon Part II 722 - TOW Chandler and Monica Come Back From Their Honeymoon 723 - TOW Monica's Pregnant Part I 724 - TOW Monica's Pregnant Part II

--Doc

You forgot the subplots, Doc!

715--Phoebe says something stupid; Joey does something stupid; Rachel has sex with someone 'cause she's horny; and Ross yells. 716--Phoebe says something stupid, Joey does something stupid; Rachel has sex with someone 'cause she's horny; and Ross yells. 717--"" 718--"" 719--"" 720--"" 721--"" 722--"" 723--Phoebe sings something stupid; Joey eats a sandwich; Rachel has sex with Ross 'cause she's horny, and Ross yells the whole time. 724--Cliffhanger--Will Phoebe and Joey say stupid things?! Will Ross yell?! Will Rachel have sex?!

spoiler

hehe. I was laughing out loud as i read this. It is so funny and soo true...

I so agree with you. The show was basically based on Ross and Rachel and how much anticipation Ross wanted to get with Rachel and then how Rachel wanted to get with Ross.

One thing for sure was that The One the Morning After was real good although it had to deal with R&R split. I thought after Ross said Rachel at his wedding (TOW Ross' Wedding) they were going to realize that they both still have feelings for each other but instead the writers decided to screw it all up by hooking Mondler together and then somehow tried to create a big gap between Ross and Rachel.

I think first off that Mondler was a big mistake. It should be Ross and Rachel who should be having the wedding. R&R have a realistic past unlike Mondler which had a few continuity errors to make it seem as though they had an actual past but instead was made-up along the way.

I just hope that R&R do get back together even then maybe we will see both the normal Ross and Rachel from the first 3 seasons.

Matt

In article , [email] (XGeNsPiCeBoYx) wrote:

Disagree. The show was basically based on a complete ensemble. Okay, I was enthralled with that storyline too, but only for the first half of the second season. There were other good stories before, during & since.

The boxset looks so good because it was chosen to be the best episodes of the first five seasons, and only an ardent fan would say that the selection is dominated by Ross & Rachel. They just have a fair share.

Tennant

Robert wrote:

Any hope left?

No. I think it's over. The writers like Chandler and Monica better, and some of the fans do, too. I agree with you that the show is faltering badly and I no longer really mind if I miss it anymore. This is one of two bottom line reasons why I am no longer a fan of Friends, and yes, I have pretty much stopped caring. The finale last year told me, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that Ross and Rachel would never been seen by the staff as a worthwhile storyline again. They are, at best, a backup sweeps stunt.

The show is lesser because of it.

Claire Abraham wrote:

Hi Claire. Well I admit I still love the show, but I've become very disheartened lately. I've been there since day one and I'll be there right to the bitter end. If the writers feel R&R are a backup couple, they ought to sit down and watch the box set that just came out. These are all outstanding episodes with R&R being a huge part of at least 6 or 7 of them. It's so incredibly obvious how important R&R are to the show. It just boggles the mind that the powers that be can't see it. It truly is a shame.

Robert

I absolutely agree with what you guys have said in this thread. Your feelings and opinions were articulated very well and I agree with them. As you may know, I have been a DIE HARD r and r fan since i started watching the show. But as much as i would like them to get back together, i am also dreading it (A LOT!!). I can't imagine that they would be half as good together as they were in season 2. And the writers have messed them up so much, both individually and as a couple, that i am not really sure that i even want them together anymore. No, scratch that!! I DO!!!! (i just hope the writers use them *well*, for a change)

I totally agree. Elizabeth and Tag have done nothing for the show, except make R&R look stupid.

Since 701, we haven't had one R&R story. Rachel spends all of her time now with Tag and Joey. Ross is always with C&M or Phoebe.

I'm confident they will eventually get back together. Unfortunately, it is looking more and more like it won't be until near the final episode. The writers simply do not know what to do with R&R. As long as they can keep cranking out C&M stories, I wouldn't expect anything big with R&R.

I think the show is really struggling right now and now more

Don't forget C&J. C&J were just as important as R&R, the first few seasons of the show. The writers are not using the original elements that made this show good. That is the problem.

--Doc

IMO...

"Ross and Rachel" is the carrot that the writers like to dangle in front of the Friends fans who've been with the show since the start--they will bring it out every once in a while, whenever they think they might need a ratings boost. Or at least to appease said fans before they leave in frustration.

On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Robert stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

I *have* to believe that, or I'll go insane! :)

Can we really go back to the old R & R story? I dont think so. The characters of Ross and Rachel have changed so much since then that I think the writers have burned those bridges forever. Sure they hint at it (With the kiss in this years season premiere, and in the episode with Rachel's sister where Ross says that they may never date again, but he still wants there to be a chance) But the fact of the matter is, if you look at the whole show, Ross and Rachel werent a couple for that long, and probably wouldnt work today anyway.....

Happy Toucan wrote:

I think it would. If written properly, I don't see any reason why it couldn't work. The fact of the matter is that neither one of them has had a successful relationship since they broke up. Sure they had their problems, but I still think they never had it better than when they were together. I don't see why they can't have that again, even if they have changed. It's not as if they don't know each other anymore. It's true they weren't together very long, but in my opinion that was a huge mistake on the part of the writers and producers. It's a mistake that needs to be rectified.

Robert

spoiler space

One thing i don't understand is this: In 701(i think) during their conversation, r and r said that the two of them together was "CRAZY"(as they put it). And they couldn't think of any good times together........................HELLO??!! I mean what about season 2??? What about before mark?? They seemed very much in love. Surely they could find one good thing, rather than "the stuff." I think this is a clear indication that the writers do NOT want r and r together.

In article , Happy Toucan wrote:

By the very next episode, on January 4th, Chandler & Monica will have been happily together for three times as long as Ross & Rachel were.

Tennant

Tennant Stuart wrote:

And not surprisingly, three times as boring as Ross and Rachel were.

Mike

Well..you're intitled to your opinion, but I don't agree. At the time I found R&R contrived and really sappy.

====== es*o*ter*ic b : of or relating to knowledge that is restricted to a small group

2 a : limited to a small circle

EsotericGrrrl wrote:

And you are entitled to your opinion, but *I* don't agree. I thought the proposal scene was one of the most maudlin, phony, overacted scenes in one of the show's most artificial and contrived episodes. TOW the Proposal is the final straw that completely destroyed my opinon of this show for good. I still may enjoy a singular episode, but I will never think well of the show as a whole again unless the Chandler and Monica phenomenon DIES.

To be honest, if Ross and Rachel had been allowed to go on for three years, they might have gotten this overwhelmingly dull and sappy, too.

found

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Okay own up, who's hid Claire's prozac?

Always CC

Coca-Cola wrote:

David Crane. He gave me coffee instead.

Lol I should have said more..while I felt that at the time, I don't feel that way about R&R anymore. Even though I'm not a fan, I know that to be right in the Friends world they have to get together again.

Sorry for saying anything, I don't want to get into a couple war. Simply put..I enjoy C&M, I don't mind if R&R get together again, but I don't want them to even think of putting Joey & Phoebe together. Lol now there's a couple that I think a lot of us would hate.

====== es*o*ter*ic b : of or relating to knowledge that is restricted to a small group

2 a : limited to a small circle

Well some of us would like to see them as a couple, you know, even it would only last 3 episodes. I mean at least they have an actual past that can conclude that they should/want to be a couple. It would of been better for the writers to put them as a couple before they put Mondler together.

Matt

EsotericGrrrl wrote:

I agree. R&R were getting boring and sappy which is why breaking them up was the best thing for the show at the time. But C&M have become the reigning heavyweight champions of contrived, boring, predictable, and sappy storylines. They unseated R&R a LONG time ago.

Mike

In article , Mike Allen wrote:

That's your opinion, Mike. There's been a few truly dreadful C&M stories in all that tine, but also many wonderful ones. I would agree that they should interact more with the others, which why we hardly ever saw R&R together, (until it all went bad when she stopped being a waitress).

Tennant

Tennant Stuart wrote:

Alot of people are indifferent to what you just said including me. There have been TOO MANY C&M stories regardless of whether they were good or bad. And to me what's worse is that after Season 5, I have pretty much predicted the entire C&M relationship. It's gotten to the point where if you've seen one C&M episode you've seen them all.

I personally think that this show is worse because of them.

Mike

Tennant Stuart wrote:

That's just rubbing it in, Tennant, and it sounds smug even if it isn't meant that way. Do you really HAVE to do that?

In article , Claire Abraham wrote:

It was not meant to be smug, but I am sorry if I hurt you. However I am truly glad that Chandler & Monica have been happily together for so long.

Tennant

Tennant Stuart wrote:

And truly glad that they beat R&R by such a large margin.

In article , Claire Abraham wrote:

Again Claire, that is most unfair of you, not to say presumptuous, to put words in my mouth. You are complaining bitterly about what I said about fictional people, and yet you see fit to pass judgement on me.

Tennant

Tennant some things you say can be interpreted quite differently to how you mean them. At times your posts appear to have a somewhat 'superior know-it-all' quality about them, I know that you don't mean them in that way but it's taken me a while to realise it. I sometimes still don't see it straight away or forget and end up flaming or aborting a reply to you. Claire, quite plainly, is very touchy about the subject of R&R against C&M at the moment, for whatever reason, so much so that I don't want to follow up on my normal jibe. Take my advice and say only 'sorry', shut your mouth and wait for her to calm down.

Always CC

In article , "Coca-Cola" wrote:

Thanks - how about sorry, and BTW, I too was an R&R fan at the time.

Tennant

It came across that way to me, too. Everything was fine until those siamese twins moved in together.

Hey..it's not like Tennant wrote the episodes ;p I think he was just stating the fact..don't shoot the messenger.

====== es*o*ter*ic b : of or relating to knowledge that is restricted to a small group

2 a : limited to a small circle

EsotericGrrrl wrote:

No, he was emphasizing something we already know in order to put a spotlight on how Ross and Rachel weren't together long. He was deliberately pointing out that R&R fans got screwed, with an attitude that suggested approval. Tennant was NOT just stating a fact. The person who said R&R weren't together long was, but Tennant was gloating.

In article , Claire Abraham wrote:

No I wasn't Claire, that's most unfair of you. I was replying to Desmond Jones who remarked that that R+R were together for a very short time. Fans (not necessarily such as yourself) carry on as though R&R are the majority part of the show, what "Friends" is basically about, and I was just trying to put such remarks in context. No way was I gloating.

Tennant

Maybe they were not "together" as long as Chandler and Monica, but what was the driving dramatic force behind season one? Ross and Rachel. They were together in S2. Half of S3 had them as a couple, while the other half saw the "will they or won't they?" crap start. S4 was just as dramatic, with them together in the premiere, then broken up once again. When Ross said "Rachel," it showed that they ARE a huge part of the series. The sixth season had Ross in love with her once again, but quickly dropped, as well as a two-part episode which, once again, proved that feelings are still there when the writers want them to be.

R&R's "open" relationship was roughly from 101-424, 601-605, and 613-614, making it about 106 episodes.

C&M ended up in bed together in 424, 501-710. This comes to a grand total of 60 episodes.

As far as the "majority" goes, R&R's ups-and-downs outweigh the sappy screeching of C&M. You always rely on facts and numbers from the show, Tennant. Try this one. :)

season 6 spoiler

this is one thing i cannot understand. And it makes me very angy to think about. In season 6 TOW ross hugs rachel, the WHOLE EPISODE was about ross re-falling in love with rachel!!! At the end of the episode, they hugged and ross did that face, where we knew he was intrigued. Here's my bone to pick: They hugged, ross obviously realized he had feelings, but the writes just DROPPED the storyline, as if it had never happened!!!! That makes me soo angry. If they weren't going to make anything come of it, they shouldn't have had ross realize his feelings in the first place, nor should they have ahd that storyline AT ALL. You just can't drop a storyline like that. It doesn't work.

Rachel >argue about their "Break" and Ross sleeps with the Copy girl. That episode >for me was one of the best episodes that >worked for Ross and Rachel, and >ironically ended their relationship for >good.

I agree with this. As much as it hurts me to watch this episode, i still think it was wonderfully written and acted. And that's just it--back then, the writing was good. VERY good. That's what made the r and r relationship so good (in my opinion). The writing is what made the fans keep coming for more. As many times as i've said this, I'll say it again. Currently, the writing is not very good. It's better than last season, but overall, nowhere close to season 1-4 (about). I have nothing against monica and chandler together, except that their storylines are STUPID, DULL, and BORING. Certainly, people would enjoy them much more if the writers gave them something interesting and good. Honestly though, I don't think these writers are capable of such a large feat.

In article , [email] (SHNOCODY) writes:

same writers aren't they?

In article , [email] (SHNOCODY) wrote:

The following Season 1-4 episodes were written by writers of Season 7...

101 "TOW Monica Gets a New Roommate" 102 "TOW the Sonogram at the End" 108 "TOW Nana Dies Twice" 116 "TOW Two Parts (part 1)" 117 "TOW Two Parts (part 2)" 123 "TOW the Birth"

208 "TOW the List" 221 "TOW the Bullies"

303 "TOW the Jam" 305 "TOW Frank Jr." 306 "TOW the Flashback" 314 "TOW Phoebe's Ex-Partner" 316 "TOT Morning After" 317 "TO Without the Ski Trip" 320 "TOW the Dollhouse" 322 "TOW the Screamer" 323 "TOW Ross's Thing" 324 "TOW the Ultimate Fighting Champion"

401 "TOW the Jellyfish" 404 "TOW the Ballroom Dancing" 406 "TOW the Dirty Girl" 409 "TOW They're Gonna Party!" 410 "TOW the Girl from Poughkeepsie" 414 "TOW Joey's Dirty Day" 415 "TOW All the Rugby" 416 "TOW the Fake Party" 418 "TOW Rachel's New Dress" 419 "TOW All the Haste" 424 "TOW Ross's Wedding (part 2)"

Tennant

In article , [email] (Mike the Real American Hero) wrote:

I said "happily together".

Tennant

"majority"

:)

Well they could have been more 'together' but they were together and quite happy. :p

Always CC

In article , "Coca-Cola" wrote:

Except when they weren't. :b

Tennant

ok children, let's settle down. I'll turn this newsgroup right around!

In article , [email] (EsotericGrrrl) wrote:

Thankyou, Phyllis. :)

Tennant

On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, Tennant Stuart stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

But R&R being *happily* together might be a different length of time from them merely *being* together! :)

In article , Paul Hyett wrote:

I was already making that distinction, Paul. :)

Tennant

On Sat, 30 Dec 2000, Tennant Stuart stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

So at what point to you consider R&R stopped being happy together?

In article , Paul Hyett wrote:

The first tiny crack opened in 311 "TOW Chandler Can't Remember Which Sister". There have been bigger cracks in C&M's relationship, but they all fully closed again, whilst R&R's crack kept right on growing.

Tennant

In article ,

now,

Last

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Remember when Cheers was on where Diane and Sam were flirting with each other by arguing? Well, the arguments brought in the ratings. When Same and Diane were together smooching and being a cute couple, the audience was turned off. The producers learned their lesson and broke them up. The ratings were up again, and stayed up because they weren't together. I'm not saying that the reason Friends producers broke up R&R was so the ratings would stay at no. 1, because it never had that problem, but I think the producers enjoyed toying with the audience about R&R and whether they would get together. Once they became a couple, I think the producers didn't know what to do, and decided to break them up. I still, to this day, love watching TOW the Morning After where Ross and Rachel argue about their "Break" and Ross sleeps with the Copy girl. That episode for me was one of the best episodes that worked for Ross and Rachel, and ironically ended their relationship for good. And even the following episode TO Without the Ski Trip where the remaining 4 friends can't decide which of the broken up they should hang out with because the two can't be in the same room together and winds up jeopardizing their friendships with them. Those were good. I think the problem with the writing is that the writers don't know when to stop with those two. By the end of season 3, they were semi back together and then broke up again. In real life, when couples break up, that usually indicates that they really don't get along well together and should stay broken up. But, I know, that's TV. I think the writers should find closure with R&R and move on. There's nothing more annoying with this show than to view every 2nd or 3rd episode that involves Ross or Rachel dating someone just to get the other one jealous. Or when Ross or Rachel date, the other's upset about it. If they're going to get back together, great, get them back together. If not, then for pete's sake, quit stringing us along with these lame storylines that pinpoints their once loving relationship and end it, because it's not good anymore, it's repetitive.

Just my 2 cents.

In article , [email] wrote:

I agree with pretty much everything else you said, but I was a big fan of Ross & Rachel's dalliance, and I was happy to see them together even though that was much the end of their story. But I so hated it when Ross couldn't hack Rachel improving herself & his subsequent lack of trust in her, especially the barbershop quartet incident - so although the ending of 315 "TOW Ross & Rachel Take a Break" was a terrific cliffhanger, I so *hate* watching 316 "TOT Morning After" and avoid it if at all possible.

Tennant

Tennant Stuart wrote:

TOT Morning After is an absolutely brilliant episode with outstanding performances by Jennifer and David. However, as a diehard R&R fan, the episode is very difficult to watch. As a result, I also try to avoid this one.

Robert

In article , Robert wrote:

Oh yes Robert, just because I hate watching it doesn't stop it being very well done. And the early "Trail" sequence is fine.

Tennant

In article ,

now,

Last

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I care about R&R as much as anyone in this newsgroup does. The writers on Friends are so screwed up nowadays.