I think that Ross is not very good at holding onto relationships. He has wreaked a lot of relationships. Yes, Rachel did say that they were on a break, but Ross wasn't honest with her. Then when Rachel wrote him the letter and he didn't finish reading it and he wasn't honest about that telling her "yeah sure" when she asked if he could do that. Also why does everyone hate Rachel? Everyone on the show has faults and yet everyone picks on Rachel. She was hurt by Ross and yes he was hurt by her, but why do we have all the sympathy for Ross and all the anger for Rachel. I think if Ross and Rachel were to get together they might as well take season 3 and throw in a baby. It would just be boring. The thirll of the baby might take some of the bordem out of it, but it would not be fun. Now Joey is a very nice person and he has tried to get close in the past seasons. He is not as stupid as people potray him to be, in the eposoide where Monica looses her eyelash curler, Joey put two and two together, that was smart thinking. Joey has acted smart on many occasions. It doesn't really matter how smart Joey is because there are more important things than brains in a relationship. I think that Joey and Rachel could have a good relationship and I think that Mona and Ross could have a good relationship. Ross is very dedicated to his job and he needs a women who accepts his job like Mona. Also Ross sent Rachel all that stuff when her and Mark were working together and he was acting insane. He should have trusted her. Rachel doesn't cheat. That was another way Rachel hurt Ross
Rachel/Ross/Joey
"Caitrion" wrote in message news:[email]...
Didn't Rachel sleep with Barry when he was engaged to Mindy???? Sounds like she does have the ability to cheat afterall.
But, who was she cheating "on"??? She wasn't involved with Ross or anyone else when that happened, so the only cheater in that scenario was Barry. ~~ Kathy
like she does have the ability to cheat afterall.
"Kathy" wrote in message news:lL%38.57357$[email]...
That's a specious argument. Anybody knowingly involved in this scenario on either side is guilty of harming Mindy. That's why if a single woman has sex with a married women, BOTH are considered to have committed adultery. Rachel was cheating on Mindy, same as Barry, and yes, it is wrong.
Of course, not taking into consideration that MINDY slept with BARRY while he was with RACHEL....so, I look at it as turn about is fair play. You are trying to imply that Rachel and Mindy had some kind of lesbian relationship.....or cheating on her as a "friend", but Mindy apparently wasn't thinking about that when she slept with Barry, was she? ~~ Kathy
on either side is guilty of harming Mindy. That's why if a >single woman has sex with a married women, BOTH are considered >to have committed adultery. Rachel was cheating on Mindy, same >as Barry, and yes, it is wrong.
"Kathy" wrote in message news:Al448.78935$[email]...
I think that argument would work better if Rachel had known Mindy was sleeping with Barry during her engagement. Turnabout is not fair play if you don't realize you have something to turn about.
You are
Grin. Oh, no, we already have enough lesbians in the show! No, I mean that she willfully participated in behavior that she knew would hurt her best friend. It is sad to learn that Mindy's morals turned out to be similarly low, but Rachel - and anybody else in her position - is wrong here in two directions.
1. As she did not know Mindy slept with Barry, her sinful intent is the same of that who is betraying a blameless friend; it would be as if she now went out and slept with Chandler, with Monica's own behavior entirely unknown.
- Revenge is never really a good reason to behave like this anyway.
Now, to segue into why that particular episode is not really about how irredeemable Rachel is, I have not forgotten that Rachel 'fessed up and told Mindy what happened. She did take the steps required to mend the friendship and that took a good portion of her considerable courage. However, to say Rachel would "never" cheat is not quite true.
The real reason why I am arguing this isn't really about "Friends" at the moment. I think it's important that anybody unclear understand this basic moral concept: Sleeping with somebody who is in a committed relationship is as bad as betraying your own committed relationship. Finding out that a friend has wronged you does not make it acceptable for you to wrong her in exactly the same way, though it DOES give you the right to chastise her for it. If a friend rifled through your purse, would that make it OK for you to rifle through hers? A sin is sin. Moral behavior requires the high ground. Otherwise we are just animals.
Well, yes, you are right, She wasn't cheating. She was showing her unethical side though.
"Kathy" wrote in message news:lL%38.57357$[email]...
Dennis wrote in message news:[email]...
like
That was soooooo long ago, and I think that of all of the Friends that she has grown up the most. She has been so nice this season to Ross. Letting him choose how much he wants to be in the baby's life, she has been more than willing to let him experience the pregnancy with her (names, dr. appointments, etc...), and she has supported him in his relationship with Mona. Going as far as tell Mona what a great catch he is. She has grown so much and I just can't believe that people are still bashing her character. So she didn't want to admit that she came onto Ross (when she got pregnant) but she did apologize and admitted that she made a mistake. They all have faults, but for some reason people have chosen to magnify hers!
"Trigger" wrote in message news:hD348.57725$[email]...
Grin. Well, you rehash the Break stuff on a regular basis to criticise Ross, and that was a long time ago, too. It's OK. This is just a TV show.
She has been so nice this season to Ross. Letting
That's not generous. That's his right, and if she had not done this she would be a really, truly bad person. It's like praising her because she went to the store and freely, generously offered money to pay for her purchases. I might also add that if she had NOT done this, the fallout in her circle of friends would have been ferocious; Monica might have cut her off.
and she has supported him in his relationship with
Score a point for you. She certainly has.
Going as far as tell Mona what a great catch he is. She has grown so
pregnant)
Only when she was cornered in the lie. They tore the truth out of Rachel on that one.
Because everybody pretends they don't exist at all. We are trying to level the playing field. The alternative view is that perfect St. Rachel Pureheart puts up with that sniveling frog, Ross Loser, out of pity, and that's a point of view *I'm* tired of reading. We've got two equally dysfunctional people who have spent five years creating problems for each other.
"Caitrion" wrote in message news:[email]...
I agree with that.
I don't see that "everybody" hates Rachel. More people are fond of Rachel than of Ross, and indeed, she is presented as more appealing much of the time. The reason why *I* tend to be so hard on her is that I am seeing a serious injustice here; he is raked over the coals and punished unbearably cruelly for his admitted sins, and she is never, ever taken to task for anything questionable she does by the writers or the other characters, and only rarely by eagle-eyed fans.
She was hurt by Ross and yes he was
It is my experience that the opposite tends to be true.
Joey
Agreed.
I think that Joey and Rachel could have a good
That is one way they could write it. I see signals that they are not heading that direction, but it's one route they could take.
Also Ross sent Rachel all that stuff
No, she's just the frequent Other Woman, participating often in and general acts of self-centered destructive bitchiness all wrapped up in an absolutely adorable, vulnerable veneer.
Caitrion wrote in message news:[email]...
Thank you!!! I thought that I was the only one who felt this way!
She was hurt by Ross and yes he was
"Caitrion" wrote in message news:[email]...
Actually, as someone stated before. No one has pointed out Rachel's flaws because JA is such a good actress and we seem to dismiss the bad stuff that she does. We have only recently brought up the way Rachel has treated Ross badly(see the other threads). We don't hate her...but I am one who is still upset with the whole "break" thing.
Sofya
Everyone on the show has faults
I am no huge fan of Ross, but HE didn't leave his first wife. He'd probably still be with Carol if she hadn't been a lesbian.
Donna My opinions might have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
I am sorry if this comes out wrong, but I don't think these conversations are getting anyone very far. i keep seeing pretty much the same posts from the same people, they just change the words around some. It seems like the arguments about Ross is better than Rachel, Rachel is better than Ross, Joey is a player, etc. just aren't getting anywhere. The people that are arguing about these things really have it stuck in their heads what they are going to believe and no matter how much you say you aren't going to change their minds.
i just wanted to put in my 2 cents.
"Caitrion" wrote in message news:[email]...
"Amy and Dave" wrote in message news:0h648.12168$[email]...
Joey
arguing
I disagree, the reason we have these discussions is to open up people's minds and maybe (like phoebe did to Ross about evolution) some people will agree and some won't. Thats why its a newsgroup...we discuss to open people up to ideas and make the show more fun.
Sofya
"Amy and Dave" wrote in message news:0h648.12168$[email]...
from
the
Joey
arguing
going
their
I think that a very strong indicator as to "Rachel with Joey or not" is that she's pregnant with somebody else's baby, it's especially bad since it is Ross. If she hadn't been pregnant it might have worked out, but this way I highly doubt it. There's certainly a huge amount of soapy elements in season 8 (which is why I think it blows big style), but having Joey and Rachel hook up would just be so over the top for a comedy show - which is what this show was originally intended to be, right? Now, I'm not saying that Ross & Rachel should be together instead, since the writers are not getting tired of having the two characters stating that they're nowhere near in love with each other any more, so it'd take a lot longer than season 8 will last to make a believable couple out of these two again. You might argue "what about a ninth season?" - well if season eight continues on this rather soap opera level, I'm not even sure if I'll make it to the end of this season, which is mostly focused on Joey/Rachel and the other four main characters are left with really crappy stories, especially David Schwimmer and Lisa Kudrow. I'd even go as far as to say, that if you've started watching friends at the beginning of season 8, you'd hardly be able to tell that she belongs to the main cast. So if these two dont wanna go on with the show, I'd be more than understanding.
Another thought that hit me, is this: There are quite a few people out there who claim that Rachel has always been manipulative of Ross when he was seriously in love with another woman. We haven't seen that in a while, have we? The last one I can think of is Emily. I believe that Ross and Rachel should have either hooked up for good after the whole Emily disaster, or they should have become/remained (whichever one you feel is more correct) close friends and nothing more. Now this permanent abuse of the Rachel/Ross scenario has really gotten annoying, why on earth did they have to get Rachel pregnant, when there was absolutely no reason for it? It seems to me that these two cant be analysed with "real life logic" they just serve NBC as a sweeps stunt they pull on a twice-a-year-basis.
Furthermore, what were they thinking turning Ross into such a big jerk? He certainly was a likeable, though at times extremely geeky and inconfident (this is one of the main factors that led to the break obviously) guy in the early seasons, but now he's just one major league pain in the butt. Did he say something about coming up with some of his lines himself, or what?`
All this has very likely been said before, but after I had just watched 813 again and scanned through the topics in here (baby custody, joey & rachel vs. ross & rachel vs. ross & phoebe vs. joey & phoebe etc...) I just had to write this down or I would've exploded sooner or later :-)
Andre
"Andr� Knoche" wrote in message news:[email]...
that
That seems to be one of the main objections of people who are against R&J but not cooing about "lobsters."
the
two
They do not look like a couple right now.
it
That's a good, honest observation. Actually, Ross gets fairly good material when he's involved with the pregnancy, but they have been oddly uninterested in involving him fully in that. I think this is about to be addressed.
been
I think she still gets her claws out fairly often. She went ballistic when Jill made a pass at him, admitting that she really didn't like it when he went out with anybody. Last year, I found her insistence in getting cozy with the father of Ross' girlfriend kind of a callous choice; nobody has ever done a good job of explaining to me how Jill was legitimately off limits and Paul was legitimately fair game, other than Rachel Said So.
one
permanent
I think the real reason why they keep refusing to permanently attach R&R is that, as one of the writers explicitly told us here in season four, they found it too hard to write funny stuff for a peaceful, happy couple. You yourself have noted that C&M are currently given morsels and crumbs for storylines, and the reason why is that they no longer have any kind of central conflict.
It seems to me that these two cant be analysed with "real life
That's a fair assessment. I can string together a "real life logic" explanation, but it involves some heavy head games, deep emotional manipulation, control issues and the need for intense therapy on both sides. Essentially, it appears to me that Rachel wants Ross on a constant leash long enough to keep him under her control AND at bay - or to strangle him when he gets too mental. And he's too needy to break the pattern. Now that they have a baby, they can be sure the game will continue the rest of their lives.
Either that, or it's a sweeps stunt.
That's the million dollar question. Even David in a recent interview said that the writers have made some decisions about Ross that seemed neither warranted nor wise. Michael Curtis once told us the staff thought he was funnier this way.
"abrahammy" wrote in message news:0WD58.4678$[email]...
is
I
lot
make
the
especially
material
uninterested
We
when
Well, Ross strongly objected to her relationship with Paul. I guesss the only difference is that Ross realized that if anything had happened with Rachel's sister, it would be the end of any chance he might have with Rachel in the future (in fact, that's what he told her isn't it?). If it weren't for that, Ross would not back down just cause Rachel said so. Rachel's relationship with Paul would have not jeopordize a possible RR reunion.
"abrahammy" wrote in message news:0WD58.4678$[email]...
is
I
Man... As there are so many people wondering about the symbolic meaning of the ying yang or whatever it was on the magna doodle in 812, does anybody wonder if their ordering lobsters does have some hidden meaning too? dont get me wrong abrahammy I'm not making fun of you, I just noticed how much people could interprete into that ;-)
We
when
I still havent seen all the friends episodes out there, but did Ross ever do something about Tag?
after
earth
reason
is
Well, as of season 3 it was so obvious that they didnt know what to with their "perfect couple". If you look at TOW the football or whatever it is called, they could have made so much out of Ross ignoring Rachel all the time, but they didnt do anything with it :-( And who says they always have to be together? Most of their scenes together in S2&3 were either Rachel sitting on Ross' lap or other way around or them about to have sex (and all that jealousy stuff)
Now, where did you read this interview? I try so hard to dig up web sites where they interviews with the cast but it seems to me as if there werent any. I've read about this David Schwimmer interview where he said that he wasnt happy with a lot of the pain Ross had to go through, but I never actually found the interview :-( And how can anybody think it is funny to have a grown man who's moving toward his mid-thirties behaving like a 12 year old on a really bad speed trip??
Andre