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spoiler for episode 815
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Just having watched 815 I have to say that this Joey loves Rachel business is pathetic. He had a similar thing, albeit in a shorter time span, with Monica. This is even worse than Joey and his hand twin. Of course it'll be the second most pathetic story line ever if Rachel dies.
"Keyser Soze" wrote in message news:...
WHAT??? You're comparing this with the flashback scene where he makes a pass at Monica or the dream scene in 805. Maybe you should rewatch 812-815 again and watch it without bias. The writers have done a fantastic job of portraying the story in the best possible way. Moreover, MLB is on terrific form now; Joey's feelings for Rachel are truly believable. How can you even compare this with the Hand Twin thing? You can be an R&R fan and you don't have to like an J&R pairing but *this* story is by far the best thing they going on right now.
Oh and Rachel's not going to die.
Priya Priya
"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...
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business is pathetic.
is even worse
story line ever
My sentiments exactly.
Joey has never really had a season spanning story arc, unlike the other characters (R&R, C&M and even P and her brothers babies). He has mainly been used purely as a comedy vehicle. MLB's perfomance in the last few episodes show what we have missed out on in the past 7 seasons. I hope it continues for the rest of this season and, fingers crossed, into a ninth.
How you can compare the J&R storyline and the Hand Twin scenes baffles me. Surely even the most ardent R&R fan can at least appreciate the writing and the performance of MLB during the past few episodes.
I too don't believe the stories about the series ending with Rachel's death. But, playing devils advocate, it wouldn't be the first time a comedy series has ended with a death - think of Soap, and I seem to recall that Roseanne ended on rather a downbeat note, though not having watched the final season I am not entirely certain about that reference.
John
Without bias? If memory serves I do recall that you mentioned sometime back that you were hoping David Schwimmer would leave the show and that should pave the way for Rachel and Joey. How objective was that?
I've watched 812 to 815 and have to agree with Keyser Soze. What Joey has can be best described as puppy love and nothing more. I sure hope the writers keep it that way. One end of the night move and Joey's got it bad for Rachel? I don't think so.
There was an episode (can't remember the title its one where Ross had bought a new sofa) where Joey after seeing how cozy Chandler and Monica asked Rachel if he could get one of those (i.e. relationship) with her. Rachel found the whole situation absurd and where were Joey's feelings for Rachel back then?
Remember TOW the book where Rachel wanted Joey to "sex her up" and had pinned him against the wall? What was Joey's reaction? Scared.
TOW the bag where Rachel points out the bag's unisex and Joey remark about having sex with Rachel, not once but twice. It's been all about sex for Joey in most cases. The one relationship I can recall Joey had that looked serious was with Kathy. Even then he was two timing her.
How serious is Joey? Well he proposed to both Phoebe and Rachel within a space of 5 minutes. Joey is protective as Rachel notes and I would view his love as being more brotherly.
Personally I don't think Joey's got the emotional quotient to have a serious relationship with Rachel. He's dumb and he's na�ve and Joey's been believable and lovable in that role. I hope the writers keep it that way.
[email] (p r i y a) wrote in message news:...
[email] (NARAG) wrote in message news:...
DS has been threatening to quit for so long now. The producers probably made him the 'dad' just to get him to stay. Just to cover their bases, they put Joey into the mix and bham, the ratings went through the roof. So what I was saying may very well be what BKC have in mind too.
You're entitled to your opinion. The writers aren't looking to please everyone. They know they'll lose some diehard R&R or J&R fans whichever road they take but they're not bothered with them. Its the average viewer they're targeting and to them its all in the execution. Quite frankly, I was willing to go along with an eventual R&R reunion if it was done well. I was happy with the sonogram scene in 803 and two episodes later, its a whole new ball game.
Monica rejected Chandler many times before they got together.
That scene just establishes that she knows how to get to him. She's been rooming with him for a while and they know each pretty well. He wasn't scared of her. He was just surprised that his Friend is making moves on him.
He was kidding and it was a really funny line.
Wrong, he wasn't serious about Kathy. It was all about sex with her too. He genuinely cared about Kate and probably Janine. But look at how the guy has changed. He's sitting in Central Perk on Valentine's day without a date. He has changed over the years. Don't quote character references from past seasons. People do mature.
Actually, it was very sweet of him to propose the way he did. He thought they were pregnant and he wanted to be there for them. It was not a romantic proposal for us to be dissing about timespan between each proposal. Quite frankly, his proposal was more sincere and sweet than Ross's proposal to Rachel in 803.
Your view is also Matt Le Blanc's view. He's mentioned that he's always thought Rachel was like a sister to Joey.
He's been absolutely believable and lovable in the episodes where they have shown him caring about a woman for more than sex. You should see the Kate episodes and 711's got a nice story along the same lines. MLB is a good actor and I'm glad that they're finally using him properly.
Priya
[email] (p r i y a) wrote in message news:...
This is mere speculation on your part. Other cast members have threatened to quit as well. I doubt that making DS the 'dad' had an bearing on whether he stays on the show.
I thought the best ratings this season was in the opener? Did 812 top that rating? Or did ratings dramatically improve after introducing the possible J/R pairing?
As you are entitled to yours. The problem here is you appear to be speaking on behalf of the show's executives. Did anyone on the network or crew actually said the above?
A relationship that's mired with inconsistencies. Pre-friends flashbacks illustrate their budding attraction but nothing at all in S1 -4 until London. That too if I remember correctly, Monica initially wanted to do it with Joey. Chandler was the accidental lover. Do we really need to see another pairing or Rachel and Joey and Ross?
Wrong. Joey actually said "I'm scared". He certainly didn't look surprised. And what it does establish is Rachel knows Joey will back down on her advances as Joey is not attracted to her and would be uncomfortable.
Certainly was funny but Joey wasn't kidding. He genuinely did not know what unisex meant. To him it was "You Need Sex". Just like omnipotent meant "I'm impotent" and Vicar as being a hockey goalie.
And what's wrong with character references? I would have thought part of the process of maturity was better judgment and control over one's emotions. Joey exibited neither on that date, knowing what he already knewn at the onset with Ross, Rachel and their soon to be born baby. Past character references do apply unfortunately as they usually do pave the way for the future. Being the stud Joey is with the women, I would have figured he would know better how to handle a crush.
I'm not sure how any proposal can be sincere and sweet when you propose to two women one after the other. Joey was simply being naive and a complete dumb ass once again and that the endearing quality about his character. Once again from a character POV he did not have the slightest clue what he was getting himself into showing he lacks EQ and maturity. I can understand Ross proposing as he's after all the father and feels responsible.
A lot of people also felt they were using MP properly in season 5 by pairing Chandler up with Monica. Now the couple has been pretty much relegated to a secondary role with silly filler plots and MP's comic talent is being completely wasted. BKC if you're reading this no more pairing please. I can handle the R&R situation but the last thing I want to see is another friend becoming yet another lover. MLB's a fine actor and they can use him yet in creative ways that should not include yet another romance between friends.
[email] (p r i y a) wrote in message news:...
Absolutely. Judging by the hype we've seen over the last couple of weeks in the USA, the show is now focused on Joey and Rachel, and the average viewer will tune in to watch an episode with an intriguing plot, not because they have watched the show as much as the die-hard fans have.
He was reacting the same way as he did in the beginning when he realised his feelings for Rachel. ("Terrified." - Joey, 812 TOW Joey Dates Rachel.)He's afraid of what will happen to his friendship with Rachel, and back in 702 TOW The Book, he was nowhere ready to cross the line between friendship and a sexual/romantic relationship.
I totally agree, Priya. It seems to me that we have a double standard here. We are perfectly aware of how much Chandler, Monica, Rachel, Ross and Phoebe have changed since the early days of season 1. I don't think anyone will deny that Ross is no longer as young and na�ve as he was back in 1994, or that Rachel is as spoiled and dependent as she was right after she ran into the gang in Central Perk.
Joey *has* changed his ways. He isn't the relentless womaniser anymore, who only cares about flings and his dear sandwiches. He's in his thirties, and he even started talking about having kids in 707 TOW Ross's Library Book. One year earlier he wanted what Chandler and Monica had. Therefore, I think it's sad that so many people won't give him a chance to be the guy Joey obviously wants to be.
I agree. Ross's proposal was a mere suggestion in order to follow old-fashioned traditions. It came off as a rude remark which he used to show just how incapable Rachel is of taking care of herself. I have never been more provoked by a single scene of the show than this one, and I cannot watch it anymore because it's so incredibly degrading.
Joey was trying to help out one of his best friends by marrying them. He didn't do it because he "had to"; but because he wanted to help out.
Exactly. Matt LeBlanc deserves a good and long storyline, since all the others have had big storylines where they have been in the spotlight. Chandler & Monica and Ross & Rachel have had their relationships, while Phoebe had her pregnancy. MLB has been the funny sidekick who has offered support to the others. It's about time his character is the main focus.
"Marita Bakken" wrote in message news:[email]...
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Umm....wouldn't that mean that he didn't think Rachel could handle the baby on her own??? which is the same thing you think Ross was doing?? Whats the difference between Ross's intentions and Joey's intentions?? Ross has more of a right to ask Rachel to marry him than Joey. And Joey made Ross look bad when he did the same thing as Ross.
Sofya
"Sofya" wrote in message news:...
The main difference here is that Joey had nothing to do with the baby. He wasn't the baby's father, so he had no responsibility for it. He proposed because he wanted to *help out*, not because he didn't think Rachel or Phoebe couldn't handle the baby on their own. He even said so himself in 810 TOW Monica's Boots: "It's different for you [Rachel]. You're so strong and together. You're not some dumb kid who doesn't know what she's doing."
This proves a very important point in this discussion. Age and maturity. That's why his behaviour in 810 wasn't nearly as disturbing as Ross's despicable act in 803. Being ready to have a child doesn't have anything to do with gender or marital status, but it's about a person being mature enough to take the responsibility of another human being.
Ross "proposed" because he thought that everybody has to get married once they have a baby. This is against everything I've learnt and seen in my home country, and just the fact that Ross insulted her and assumed that just because she was on her own, she wouldn't be able to take care of a baby, made me furious. It's obvious that you don't see it the same way that I do, and that's fine, but nothing and nobody will make me like Ross in this scene. :)
"Marita Bakken" wrote in message news:[email]...
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was
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Help out??? he has to get married in order to help out??? Thats exactly what Ross wanted...to help out when you want to help out that means someone needs help which both Joey and Ross think.
You are just biased because you don't want Ross together with Rachel. Joey did something stupid and the same thing Ross was doing. You're saying Joey wanted to marry Rachel to "help out," how do you interpret help out? Because help out means that the person needs helping showing that he thinks Rachel can't handle it on her own. Couldn't he help her out as a friend, why does he have to marry her??
, not because he didn't think
Exactly, and Joey wanted to help her because he didn't think she could do it on her own, just like Ross.
Sofya
"Sofya" wrote:
baby.
exactly
someone
Joey
saying Joey
Because
Rachel
why does
I'm not going to lie to you; I don't want Ross and Rachel to start dating at the moment. They have too much else going on in their life, and a romance between them would only complicate a situation which is difficult enough already for the people involved. I believe they should focus on the child and their friendship right now, so yes, I don't want any Geller-Green tension across the street from Monica and Chandler's apartment. I want little Ruth (?) Green to grow up with two parents who care about each other and have a great friendship. If they end up together, so be it, but now is not the time IMHO.
When I say "help out," I mean "help out" a friend out of the goodness of his heart. Joey was not trying to propose to Rachel based on an old-fashioned tradition where men think it's impossible for women to have children on their own. And he surely wasn't stupid. Marriage isn't something the conventions of society should force you into, which was what Ross was trying to do. And that is what I disliked about this scene.
disturbing
doesn't
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could do it
I'm sorry, but I don't see it that way. And it's not because I think Rachel is "the queen of everything" (Phoebe, 621), and Ross is a "loser." He really isn't! I saw some incredible improvement in his character last year (709, 710, 716, 723, 724 etc), while Rachel acted like a ridiculous, spoiled teenager in the infamous Tag-episodes. And this is why I was so disappointed in Ross in this episode. The scene had the potential of being one of the biggest RnR moments ever if he only could have acted more like a gentleman and skipped the Mental-act for a couple of hours.
Ross was too focused on his ideas and traditions that he didn't approach the subject the way he should have. Marriage should be about respect and love, and by "proposing" to Rachel in such an awful way, he showed neither of the two; least of all, respect.
"Marita Bakken" wrote in message news:[email]...
What was Joey trying to do in your opinion then? The way I see it he was definitely thinking along the lines that a female needs to be married when she is pregnant. That's why he proposed to both girls when he thought that they were pregnant.
"Marita Bakken" wrote in message news:[email]...
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baby
I see. So because Ross felt responsible for his baby (because he *is* the father), that makes him despicable. Because Joey isn't the father, what he did was great. Both had the same intentions-to be there, and to help out. But because Ross is the father, he was despicable. Hmmm...
"Laurie" wrote in message news:...
I think there are some who feel that Ross does not deserve our empathy is not worthy of Rachel. Hence his actions are always questioned. Can't blame them when you look at some of the things he did. This season alone he's had a seemingly meaningless relationship with Mona, dashing off to be with her when he should have been with Rachel and when Rachel actually moves in with him, fails to come clean with Mona. Who's he kidding?
When you look at TOW the Detergent and Poker its easy to understand why so many at that time were rooting for Ross. He was sweet and considerate.
I think Ross needs to first redeem himself. Hopefully the writers/producers will help make Ross a more likeable character. For example, he was at his element at the sonogram scene with Rachel. The writers were going in the right direction but they stopped short there.
Now does anyone think Joey and Gunther will make a great couple? :)
"NARAG":
I feel the same way, Ross is just a bit old-fashioned. He should have known better. Bad, authors, bad!
Many men are jealous of someone not better than they're having chances on JA.
Who do you blame for staying with a girl who likes everything others, including your big love, hate about you, or at least consider as boring? Mona's too perfect after all.
Are you missing the scenes where he forget about Mona, just because he was with Rachel and the baby? Or are you instead blaming him for that?
That's Ross. I suggest the writers thought this was a good way to end that relationship.
Oh yes, additionally 319 "TOW the Tiny T-Shirt" and 321 "TOW a Chick. And a Duck." and that's after they broke up, although before all the beach stuff. I'd claim Ross saying Rachel at his wedding, too, but he messes that up afterwards. I even thought it being cute to draw out the annulment. But Rachel can be sweet too, like in "519 The One Where Ross Can't Flirt" and the following ep where she erases Emily's message.
I still like him, but I'd spend a bit of my karma to get him more likeable.
I can't await the beginning of 816. I think Ross' character showed up as adorable in season 8 not only in the sonogram scenes, but especially * after he tells Rachel it's a girl, * right before he meets Mona again at the Central Perk ("TOW Rachel's Date"), * when he's learning Dutch etc. to get the appartment and * with all the video tape stuff. There are scenes forcing the opposite, though.
<g> I'm good with everything that keeps Joey away from Rachel.
Christoph
"Christoph P�per" wrote in message news:a4gb52$s5g$[email]...
Hmmm...
Um...she wasn't sweet when she was talking to Ross about the message! She was trying to convince him not to call Emily back!! She's only nice to get her way!
Sofya
"Sofya":
I might remember that episode wrong, I'll check today. Seems as if Rachel is the one to be nice more often, although she doesn't mess up things up as often as Ross does. Maybe it'd help if Ross would be really, i.e. intentionally, mean to her once, he never was yet.
Christoph
"Sofya":
I rewatched it today. My long term memory is a bit wrecked obviously. But I don't think she's being egoistic here. She cares a lot about Ross and knows him pretty well. Monica, who even knows him better, would have adviced him the same way if she'd have had the guts to tell him Emily called at all.
Christoph
"NARAG" wrote in message news:[email]...
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And then, in the next episode, the writers have him size up his own behavior, decide he deserved to be in trouble, and take his lumps with good grace, as if that made up for it, because they needed him to be sympathetic that episode. They aren't thinking very clearly.
I have really felt like the writers really don't know what to do with Ross. They use him for some cheap, easy jokes because he's easier to write funny that way, then expect him to be able to carry storylines that require empathy. They want it both ways and don't realize this really isn't working.
But then, again, I think we are seeing the Writers Can Only Write Two Good Characters At a Time syndrome.
"abrahammy" wrote in message news:wqPa8.7936$[email]...
father,
Hmmm...
good
sympathetic
I agree. Not when it comes to Ross, they aren't. I think you've hit the nail on the head... the writers have no idea what to do with Ross. And I also think that Schwimmer's role as a director has taken away from his own personal vision for the character, as well. His characterization is wildly inconsistent from one week to the next, and quite frankly he just doesn't deserve to get Rachel in the end.
Ross.
Agreed again. Maybe its Schwimmer himself who feels he can switch effortlessly from one extreme to the other. If you look at the first season Ross versus the Ross we have now, it's hard to believe it's the same guy. You're supposed to naturally mature as you age, but as Ross' character has aged, he's progressively become less and less mature. And less and less likeable, in the process.
Dan
"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message
season
What this weird shifting has really done for me is to make me really aware of the degree to which writer's technical problems, biases, and even creative laziness affect the characterization and outcome of storylines. I don't really think in terms of "well, this - and - so can't happen because X doesn't behave this way" like I used to. If it serves the writer's purpose to make Joey intelligent in spurts and then expect us to think Chandler can still get away with making fun of his brain power, they will do so. If it serves their purpose to make Ross mistreat girlfriends and then have the Friends all talk about what a great guy he is, they will do so. If they want Ross, who was a virgin when he met Carol, to be plagued by jokes about his high school affairs with cleaning ladies and librarians they will do so. If they want to ignore Phoebe entirely for ten straight episodes, they will do so. When somebody points out a legitimate logical problem, David Crane asks why we don't have more interesting things to think about than their consistency errors. These folks are sloppy.
So, if they suddenly want Ross to be sane, stable and a good husband to Rachel, Mental Geller will instantly vanish as if he never existed. If they want Joey to get over Rachel, PRESTO! The only thing I will not be able to stomach: if Joey marries Rachel and becomes Ruth's primary father figure, and Ross' objections are not portrayed as being legitimate, I will have profound moral objections to the artistic decisions made. I do not believe in lobsters anymore. Ross is allergic to shellfish (unless the next flawed script decides to have him suddenly try to enter a Crustacean Eating Contest) and my aversion to Rachel's Princess Bitch mode is well documented.
(Why, might you ask, do I dislike Princess Bitch more than Mental Geller? Because he gets punished and she gets away with it. Both are obnoxious, but she's much more dangerous.)
"abrahammy" wrote in message news:eY0b8.10026$[email]...
guy.
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purpose
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about
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True, but this is a classic example of too many cooks spoiling the broth. When you have at least a dozen different writers adding to the story throughout the course of a season, you are destined to wind up with inconsistencies and poor storytelling unless there is an extremely capable head writer or editor overseeing the entire process. "Friends" has been extraordinarily blessed by six gifted actors, and survived despite the writing, not because of it. With a few exceptions, the writing on the show has never been as good as it was during Season 1. I think Bright, Kauffman and Crane exhibited much more creative control over the series during the first year, and then when the show exploded, they sort of left the series to other producers while they went on to develop other shows like "Veronica's Closet."
they
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Wow... you don't believe in lobsters anymore? Harsh words. Question... if it turns out that Ross wasn't Rachel's lobster after all, does that mean there's no such thing as lobsters?
Dan
It isn't Buffy which I've got to say is pretty well written. Although it's hard to make comparisons between the two shows, Buffy is written by big geeks who really care about the characters and the nitty gritty. Okay so Friends is a sitcom, a comedy, it doesn't mean they should be able to pull fast ones, short shift characters for a quick laugh. For a show to have a solid loyal fan base there must be geeks, a show must respect the geeks! Which just makes me think of the Simpsons a show which almost has no continuity (not that it needs it) but is always mocking that fact. I long for the day when Monica walks into a club to hear The Boss playing and asks how anybody could dance to that.
but
I hear you, Rachel walks a very fine line with me, one that got finer since I've remembered TOW The Cat and TOW Nobody's Ready.
Always Coca-Cola
In article , "Coca-Cola" wrote:
I might be wrong on this, since I don't watch the show, but didn't Buffy suddenly acquire a sister which she'd never had before, who appeared in between the two times that Buffy has died so far?
Tennant
Dawn, yes Buffy did but because it was a good show it was all soon explained and had been planned really well. The same with Buffy's second return from death, it was handled well. Buffy even recently got away with a musical episode, ". . .they got the mustard out!!!"
Always Coca-Cola - The things you can do with good active writers and a show based on the Hellmouth.
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, Tennant Stuart stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -
Well explained in the show.
It's a lot more complicated than that.
Besides, the first time she 'died', she was revived by CPR within minutes, so nothing supernatural there.
As to the second time - well, it *is* a comedy/horror/drama show, so the term 'willing suspension of disbelief' is involved! :)
Most of all though, the show is fun to watch.
Paul Hyett wrote in message news:...
And a possible name for the baby girl Sarah Michelle Green-Geller. :)
"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:...
This will not be the case in future Friends episodes. As the show will be wrapping up next season, the writers will figure out what to do with Ross and he will be consistently written as the finale will be within sight. My money is he'll end up with Rachel in the end. Ross actually came of very well in the first few episodes of the season 8 before the writers lost their bearings; a lot of people were and are still rooting for RnR. Therefore he will be deserving of Rachel in the end as she can't end up with Joey for obvious reasons.
I do not think Schwimmer gets much of a say in how his character's developed even though he may direct and have directed a few episodes. That's the job of the writers and producers. And if I remember correctly, TOW truth abt London was directed by DS and frankly it was one of the best eppys of season 7.
Don't fret, I'm sure the writers will make Ross' character a mature and likeable one again.
"NARAG" wrote in message news:[email]...
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Ross has to redeem himself?? what that hell is all this talk about ross redeeming himself?? what did he do wrong??? He went mental for while okay, and he proposed to rachel (maybe not in the best tone) but he was being RESPONSIBLE and he wanted to "help out" like JOEY!!!
So now everybody wants Ross to be mister perfect and an angel around Rachel?? For god sakes, she puts the moves on him and then says "i can't believe i'm having a baby with you"!! How messed up is that?!!
Sofya
"Sofya" wrote in message news:a4i71l$bi9$[email]...
The way Ross "proposed" to Rachel was written in such a way as to not bring any immediate expectations of a reunion, I think. If Ross had done it the way Joey did, it would have had a lot more implications given their history. I believe they wanted the situation to be ambiguous between R&R just to keep their 8th season options open. But I hated that way it was done.
And when Rachel said "I can't believe it's with you", who knew what she meant? Maybe she meant "I can't believe it, it's so great!" or "I can't believe you're the dad because that's what I always hoped!" ;-) Well, it's possible!
"Sofya" wrote in message news:...
Don't get me wrong, for the record I believe that Ross' proposal was sincere and geniune vis-a-vis that miserable charlatan Joey. He actually asked Pheobe to return the ring and in front of Rachel! What balls!
You're absolutely right. I'm at a loss for words here.
"Sofya" wrote in message news:...
Joey proposed much before Ross did and when he proposed he didn't know who was pregnant or who the father was. Thats the difference.
Priya
I think Ross was right in bringing up marriage to Rachel but the way they had him do it (by him implying that she was incapable) was bad. It could have been done so much better than that.
What Joey did was sweet but it didn't have much forethought behind it.
[email] (p r i y a) wrote in message
Wait a minute! Joey panicks when the girls asks his reaction to a woman admitting to being pregnant. Joey, who fornicates more often than jack rabbits do, starts blabbering about some blond woman. Phoebe covers for Rachel and the next scene Joey's on his knees proposing to Pheobe. Monica lets the cat out of the bag and another scene later Joey's proposing to Rachel. Even asks Pheobe for the ring back. He knew Rachel was pregnant.
Someone was suggesting that Joey should have circumcised and converted to Islam. That way he could have, under Islamic law, be able marry and stay married to both Rachel and Pheobe at the same time.
[email] (NARAG) wrote in message news:...
He proposed to Phoebe because he thought she was pregnant. He didn't know that Rachel was pregnant at the time. He freaked out when he thought it might have been some random girl he dated but when he thought it was Phoebe, the guy proposes because he is a good friend. He'd do the same for Rachel and he did.
We found out that he's already circumcised in 719 TOW Ross & Monica's cousin.
Priya
"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...
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We also found out that lunch meat makes a terrible makeshift foreskin.
Dan
[email] (p r i y a) wrote in message news:...
All the more reason for Rachel to nip loverboy's crush in the bud.
"Keyser Soze" wrote in message news:...
Typo in last post : 'in or the dream scene in 805' should read dream scene in Season 5.
Priya
They would never kill off Rachel. They know better then that. Any rumors of that are all bull. You know why I know? Because the producers, writers and NBC would know that fans of the show would just go berzerk and it would be the worst way to kill the show. Weather they were ending it or not this season, they wouldn't want to go out that way. They'd deal with a lot of crap from everyone since Rachel is a much loved character by millions.