I Am SO ANGRY With These Writers... (SPOILERS)

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I am extremely upset that the "Friends" writers missed a chance to give us a defining Chandler/Monica "moment," and continue to write this couple as though they are together out of convenience instead of love.

There is NO WAY that Monica should not have decided at the last moment to get on that plane with Chandler. Monica is being portrayed selfishly, and it is so frustrating to have to sit here and watch this as though this is what true love is supposed to be like.

When Monica came out the door and explained to Chandler that he was above both her old job and her new job, she should have gotten on the plane with him then and there. No job should be standing in the way of these two, and I think it was just poor execution for the writers to play this storyline out this way. For Monica to choose a job in New York over Tulsa with Chandler really gets to the heart of their relationship and makes me wonder why these two even got married in the first place. This is a sad reflection on the relationship between these two for it to go down this way.

The writers set themselves up with a great opportunity to show how deep the love between them is. Had Monica got on that plane with him in the show's final moments and abandoned her "dream job," we would have gotten a memory on par with the end of the Prom Video episode. As it stands, we have a maturing Chandler at the same time we have an increasingly more selfish Monica, quickly foregoing four days a week with her husband without even taking the time to deliberate on it. She just suddenly decides that the job is something she "has to do," even though she never once called Nancy the "restaurant head-hunter" before to check on the availability of the position.

I am quite upset with the end of tonight's episode. Naturally, I will continue to watch the show, as I have always done, but the writers need to either commit to a loving relationship between Chandler and Monica, or get them a divorce and get it over with. Monica needs to appear on Chandler's doorstep in Tulsa within the next four weeks if there is to be any salvageable relationship between these two. Right now, Monica doesn't deserve Chandler. End of story.

Dan

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:08pp9.129079$[email]...

wonder

Uhm, isn't Chandler choosing his job in Tulsa over Monica?

Lewis.

"manhn" wrote in message news:Bppp9.489615$[email]...

I don't see how you can compare the two situations. Chandler was forced into a choice of either going to Tulsa or (conceivably) losing his career. Monica wasn't forced into any choice. As a matter of fact, she didn't even KNOW the restaurant job was available to her until she called her headhunter friend. Just goes to show you how important the "dream job" was to Monica... she had never even bothered to inquire about it.

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:IKpp9.129421$[email]...

forced

Chandler didn't have to be in that predicament if he didn't fall asleep.

Besides, wouldn't Monica have been in the same dilemma--losing her career by going to Tulsa?

even

headhunter

Chandler didn't know anything about Tulsa until he accepted it!

At least Monica knows what she does for a living.

Lewis.

"manhn" wrote in message news:7Zpp9.519693$[email]...

with

career.

by

Monica has a great career, a creative career, with a limited amount of head chef roles out there, and New York is a great place to be, if you can't be in London.

Chandler is a manager in a data processing department. He can get a job in another data processing department - and probably never notice the difference !

Dream job .v. fell asleep ad got transferred ?

No contest, Chandler should have resigned, or he just doesn't love her enough.

Lauren

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:IKpp9.129421$[email]...

forced

even

headhunter

Great opportunities come as surprises and are unexpected. How do you "inquire" about your dream job? you don't know its your dream job until you get the opportunity...

Sofya

"manhn" wrote in message news:Bppp9.489615$[email]...

EXACTLY!

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:08pp9.129079$[email]...

While I agree with you Dan, to a certain extent, it is glaring that *Chandler* is the one leaving Monica, and under that circumstance it makes him the 'selfish' one not her. I don't think we can blame Monica completely for this.

Gone are the days [ I hope!!] that women (and children) are expected to follow the man of the family around for his career to the detriment of their own lives. Love is important yes, but so is self development, respect and choice.

Jacqueline

"Jacqueline Rochelle" wrote in message news:fxpp9.489635$[email]...

will

to

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Chandler's

completely

Why not? She was all ready to go with him. She made a split second decision when she heard about a new job opening. She pretty much dropped her plans with Chandler like a rock as soon as something better came along. Something that she hadn't even been out actively looking for, so her claims that this was her "dream job" are out the window. Had it been her dream job, something that she had wanted for years, you'd think we would have gotten some exposition about how she had been trying to get that position for years. Or at least months. How about a week...?

their

She made a choice. She chose to go to Tulsa with Chandler. She even told him that four days a week is too long to be gone from her husband. So she made her decision and she chose to go to Tulsa. Then, as soon as a new opportunity came along, she threw out her commitment to Chandler and decided to stay. This has nothing to do with outdated notions of female obligation. This is just old-fashioned caring and sympathy I'm talking about. Wedding vows apply equally to both sexes. She knew this, at least in the first 20 minutes of the episode, because it wasn't until she heard about the "dream job" she had never looked for that she decided to ditch Chandler and renege on her earlier statements that she wanted to be with Chandler.

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:GOpp9.129454$[email]...

need

makes

A second longer than how long it took Chandler to accept the job to Tulsa.

along.

Sounds like what Chandler did last week.

claims

Again, why is Chandler going to Tulsa? This is NOWHERE near his dream job.

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new

decided

I don't know--why doesn't Chandler then stay in New York? What exactly does Tulsa have? He gets no raise in pay, this isn't a promotion, and he leaves all of his friends. Where's the attraction?

Sure it does.

So, where's Chandler's caring and sympathy?

Apparently, it doesn't apply to Chandler.

renege

It's not as if Monica got a job in Broadway, it's a restaurant job. We know she's a chef and that she loves it. That's more than we can say about Chandler and his career aspirations.

Lewis.

"manhn" wrote in message news:B4qp9.509399$[email]...

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know

Thats right. So he loses his job...not like he can't find another one. And most Americans have 3 or 4 different jobs/places of work during their working careers I've read.

Sofya

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:GOpp9.129454$[email]...

need

Well, Dan, you were quite prepared to trash the hopes of Ross and Rachel fans who have been waiting for years for a reconciliation, but you appear to go ballistic when your own favorite couple runs into a snag.

Never fear. I think this is a great twist, the best story opportunity they have been given in years, and it's going to add up to some of the best C&M stories we've seen in ages. And they will NOT end up divorced; Tulsa will end up trying them, causing them anguish, and in the end they will meet each other in some center place as Monica announces she's pregnant. Really.

Chandler has been forced into a very difficult situation because of his own foolish actions. That situation stands to absolutely ruin Monica's career. For a restauranteer, having some vague job in a cheesy chain just does not compare to being the main chef of a major restuarant. She ran up against a conflict that talented women like her face DAILY. And to her credit, and to the writer's credit, they treated Monica as if her life's aspirations should not be trumped by a random stupidity on the part of her husband. They also stand to champion a very important concept: love can withstand trying situations. They will be apart for a little more than half the week each week. This could break a weak couple, but these two are for real. They will withstand the inevitable buffetting that will come, and they will endure. Those problems they face along the way will be real problems, interesting problems rich in comic opportunities that they have needed for some time now. Chandler and Monica had stagnated; conflict for them mostly seemed to center around how he pissed her off for some small infraction, and I didn't enjoy it. She turned screechy and tiresome. Now she's softer and more believable, more like the character I actually liked the first few seasons of the show. They have a REAL problem, one without easy solutions. They are taking it head on, pointing out how hard it is for everybody (including Joey. That was great stuff!) This is the stuff of which really good stories are made and I applaud them for it. But be certain of this, Dan. Chandler and Monica WILL endure, and they will come out of their trials funnier, more enjoyable to watch, and quite as much in love as ever. With, I think, a baby finally on the way. Enjoy the ride. This is the best Chandler and Monica we've seen since season five.

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:gisp9.21072$[email]...

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That's not really fair, is it? Accusing me of trying to trash the hopes of R&R fans, just because I suggested that Joey and Rachel made a better couple? I don't even think I was in the minority on that one. Ross had been painted as an utter moron for two seasons, plus, their relationship had that tired, been-there-done-that feeling that I didn't want to plod through for the show's likely final season. Well, now that Ross has had another complete character makeover, and Joey's feelings for Rachel have magically vanished, it looks like Ross and Rachel fans are going to get their wish after all. But I wasn't trying to trash anyone's hopes, I honestly felt that the way the show was progressing, Joey and Rachel made more sense than Ross and Rachel. There was no animosity intended and I apologize if you felt there was.

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each

I felt the best story opportunity they had in years was to go to Tulsa together, spend some time alone together instead of constantly flanked by the other four, and discover what love meant *together*, instead of discovering what it meant with respect to each other's absence. I'm not big on having love defined by the negative space that exists when your significant other is gone. Love ought to be defined by what happens when they're around. Keeping these two apart may be a story device, and it may be used well, but I would much rather see the chemistry between them together than the pained longing that exists when they're apart as an expression of their feelings for one another.

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should

More and more, this thread is taking on overt sexist overtones. My opinion that Monica should have gone to Tulsa with Chandler has nothing to do with the fact that she's the woman and he's the man. It has to do with the fact that she said she was going to go with him, and then took her sentiment back mere hours later after she got wind of a new job opportunity. So what did we learn this week on "Friends"? Love isn't about sacrifice, it's about selfishness. It's about doing what's best for yourself, not what's best for your relationship. It's about breaking your word to the man--OR WOMAN--you married because it provides some instant gratification. You have to understand that my problem with the way tonight's episode doesn't stem from the fact that Monica is a woman and should follow her man to the ends of the earth. My problem is that Monica told Chandler she would go, she made up her mind to go, and specifically told him that four days a week without her husband was too much for her to bear. Then, not even a full day later, she takes it all back because she gets some new information. That is just downright selfish. Once agreeing to go with him, she should have stuck by her word. This isn't like telling Rachel she'd loan a sweater and then deciding not to. She told her husband she had decided to go, and then backed out. I have a real problem with that.

Dan

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:Bfup9.130940$[email]...

Tulsa

Whether or not that's a good storyline for C&M, that would totally make the show suffer. The show is the best when the six characters are together. With Monica still in NY, there's a reason for Chandler to visit NY often. If Monica was with him, why would they go to NY on any regular basis?

opportunity.

Where was the anger for Chandler last week? Why should he expect Monica to come to Tulsa with him for a job that means nothing for him? Note: I'm not mad at Chandler. But I'm not mad at Monica either.

Again, why is what Monica did this week "selfish" and what Chandler did last week not selfish?

And letting each other do what they think is best for them and believing that their relationship will survive shows plenty of sacrifice to me.

Was going to Tulsa really the best for their relationship? Again, why is Chandler going to Tulsa? No pay raise, no promotion, no added prestige, and he leaves his friends. Monica, meanwhile, will have very few job possibilities and will leave her friends AND family.

Didn't Chandler promise Monica that he would get out of his obligation to go to Tulsa last week?

Did you have problems with Ross promising Emily not to see Rachel and then seeing her anyway?

And getting the type of job Monica received is not "instant gratification."

information.

Note the new information. It's not as if she stayed because a new mall was opening. We've known since the very first episode that Monica takes her career seriously. Why should she forget that because the guy she loves is going to a place he never wanted to go in the first place?

Besides, Chandler understood perfectly.

sweater

What if her mother got sick? What if Emma got into an accident? What if Ross left, leaving Rachel all alone with Emma? Would those be good enough reasons for Monica to stay?

Or would that still make her selfish? I guess it depends on how seriously you take Monica's career.

Lewis.

"manhn" wrote in message news:...

I think what the writers did was brilliant. Once again, as in the "We were on a break" issue, they have shoved a controversial plot twist in our faces, one which can be interpreted in different ways by different viewers. So one viewer sees black, the other sees white, and hey presto! We've got ourselves a heated debate. And as any self-respecting TV network marketing executive will tell you, heated debates among Internet-savvy viewers is the right stuff for soaring ratings. Long live the number one show in prime time, even if it may be for this one last season only (which is not yet a sure thing, by the way).

In article , [email] (Dan Silverstein) wrote:

Two words: circumstances change.

wg

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in

opportunity.

But Dan, last week Chandler said he was going to try to get out of Tulsa and he didn't. They both broke promises to each other because the promises were foolish. They wrote this story because it actually happens - a lot - when both partners are talented professionals.

Well, this could go both ways. Chandler's postion was pretty selfish, too. OK, honey, I screwed up, now you have to leave everything you love to follow a job I don't even like.

It's about breaking your word to the

They both did. If she's selfish, he's a coward. Or we could be kinder to both and say they are in a tough spot that will require commitment, love and patience. This is a common story. It has a resonant theme - and it gives them the genuine conflict they've been needing for several years in order to be interesting. TV shows require problems in order to be watchable, and it really helps if the problems aren't superficial and silly. This is a winner.

I don't like that she didn't even ASK her friend if there was a job in Tulsa..they have 5 star restaurants there, the least she could have done is asked. I think they will sort it out soon, I hope...I am sure they will make it great...somehow...but now it looks a little bleak... "Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:Bfup9.130940$[email]...

Naturally,

Monica,

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"Jacqueline Rochelle" wrote in message news:fxpp9.489635$[email]...

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Chandler's

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their

I think i'll bring this up in my Women's Studies class...

"Sofya" wrote in message news:ao7imj$pb9$[email]...

and

Well Sofya, don't tell them that I moved from Australia to Canada for my husband's career then, or I'll just come across as a big hypocrite. :-) Actually it is not so bad! I am a math teacher, and people all over the world do math!

Jacqueline

Sofya, I'm getting my Masters in Women's Studies...I know totally off the point sorry ...;) anyway geesh could this season BE any more messy...?? "Sofya" wrote in message news:ao7imj$pb9$[email]...

need

makes

and

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:08pp9.129079$[email]...

as

I was so surprised to see your post, and the support it received. I was thinking to myself, "FINALLY an episode where we see Monica and Chandler have some truly loving moments together." I was blown away by the way you saw it. It's a valid point, but I was concentrating on how they were speaking to each other, and how they were kissing each other so passionately.

Having been in a marriage, and separated by a thousand miles because of work, I didn't have a problem with that aspect of the storyline. Plus, the idea that it's a temporary situation makes a big difference.

In the big scheme of things, a year really isn't that long, especially when you're going to be together from Thursday night through Monday morning. Of course, Chandler would get home from the airport too late Thursday nights to watch the early shows like "Friends", but Monica could tape it for him. ;-)

"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:1zsp9.65807$[email]...

give

couple

LOL... what support? The only support my position seems to be getting is my own :) It seems like everyone else thinks that what Monica did is no different than what Chandler did deciding to go to Tulsa in the first place. Well... that's what makes this such a great show. All the major conflicts usually have equal numbers supporting opposite sides... somewhere out there, there are probably fifteen or so million people who agree with me... I just hope one or two of them post in this newsgroup...!

I was

In my opinion, they were empty kisses. She should have been on that plane with him. Deep down I *knew* Monica was going to decide to go with him at the very end, when they were out in the hall. When she didn't, it was a huge letdown. I just can't believe she didn't go. Arghhhhhhhh

the

when

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to

;-)

Knowing Chandler, he probably just pirates them off the Internet...

Dan

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:36:02 GMT, "Dan Silverstein" wrote:

hehe, I'm a C&M fan and I would have liked if Monica went with him, it would have made a nice ending to this episode but that is all. I'm pretty sure, their stories in Tulsa would have been dead boring.

My husband is thousands of miles away due to work and I can relate to this story. Chandler would have been an ass to expect her to move with him. He doesn't like his job and doesn't want to move to Tulsa. Why should we expect Monica to follow him? If anything, Mon should ask him to quit his job and stick around in NY and look out for his dream job.

But what would happen after they get to Tulsa? They would have stories that didn't involve the other four and that isn't something new. There have been many complaints that these two are like siamese twins who can't seem to exist without the other being within each others breathing space. With Chandler out of town, Monica can spend time with the others and get different stories for a change. As for Chandler, there is no hope of anything remotely interesting happening in Tulsa but that's just to get him out of the way for a while anyway.

Knowing Chandler, he probably just used the internet for getting porn...

Priya

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

is

place.

conflicts

there,

just

Chandler

you

nights

He could always download fake nude pictures of Jennifer and Courteney.

"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:...

Why would he need porn? He's probably the only one of the guys who's regularly getting laid. <g>

Overdosed on Teletubbies, p r i y a thought it'd be a good idea to post this:

Is that a wild guess or a reference to the spoiler for 904???

On Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:23:55 +0200, "Cookie Dude" wrote:

Nope. We know for a fact that Chandler mostly uses the net for porn.

621: The One Where Ross Meets Elizabeth�s Dad Joey: But I got to act with a robot Pheebs, and-and I don�t know anything about technology! I can�t even use Chandler�s computer except to find porn! And-and that�s only �cause it�s right there when you turn it on!

624: The One With The Proposal Chandler: Oh, just hanging out, talkin� about uh, websites. (Joey laughs.) Yeah, we saw this really interesting website about marriage and how totally unnecessary it is and how its just a way for the government to keep tabs on you.

Joey: (laughs) Yeah, Big Brother.

Monica: Well that�s a little crazy. Although I am y�know glad to hear that you�re branching out on what you look at on the Internet.

Priya

"Dan Silverstein" skrev i melding news:08pp9.129079$[email]...

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job

I'm glad she didn't decide to go with him to Tulsa. Ok, first of all. Chandler doesn't like his job right? So why does he go without trying to find a new job in NYC first? He's apparently good at what he does and has a college degree. Of course this is TV, so things can't go smoothly or else there'd be no plot. Still, I think perhaps they should have at least brought up the subject. Not a big deal though.

Chandler loves Monica and Monica loves Chandler. Chandler just had to relocate to another state, and Monica prefered staying in the city with her new job. Is that so crazy? Doesn't this actually happen in real life? They will still be with each other three days a week and although this whole Tulsa thing is a bit weird, I'm sure it will work out fine.

I see Monica having storylines with the other five (or six if we include Emma), BUT remember that Chandler is going to be home in the weekends, so it's not like they can't have storylines together anymore. I think it's quite obvious that they won't have Chandler alone in Tulsa for the entire season, so he'll either move back to NYC in a few episodes, or he'll stay in Tulsa, but we'll mostly see him when he's home with Monica and the other Friends.

This is something I prefer much more than C&M being together in Tulsa. How boring would that be? At least this opens for storylines where C&M don't have to be together 24/7. They can branch out a bit, and try something new.

I personally don't see why Monica wanting to stay in NY makes her a bad person/wife. I don't blame either Chandler or Monica. This is just something that happened and they have to deal with it. Where would you rather wanna be a chef? On Manhattan in NYC, or in Tulsa Oklahoma (which is pretty much in the middle of nowhere. No offence to the people who actually live there.)? Yes, Monica changed her mind, but aren't people allowed to do that? She was never totally crazy about going in the first place.

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:...

Wasb't it you that only a few days earlier posted how much you loved this season? Well C&M have been in the sidelines since they married in 725 playing secondary roles. What with Monica's boots, the honeymoon overshadowed by Rachel telling Ross and the soulmate. And you're only just getting upset? Jennifer Aniston's character is pretty much the lead these days with the the other 5 being party of the "ensemble" cast.

Anyway, Friends won its time slot but is in 2nd place behind CSI whcih improved its ratings, wait Friends slipped further.

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:08pp9.129079$[email]...

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Monica going to Chandler? Chandler should go to Monica!

"a maturing Chandler at the same time we have an increasingly more selfish Monica"

Chandler is the OPPOSITE of "mature" in this storyline. If he was mature, he would face up to his boss and admit what happened and then search for a new job. He can't abandon NYC and his life because of a stupid sleeping mistake he made and his inability to confront his superiors.

Sofya

"Sofya" wrote in message news:...

He did go to his boss and admit what happened. That was in 902.

He isn't abandoning his life - he wanted an integral part of his life (Monica) to come with him. She's abandoning him a bit by staying behind, though.

"Jess" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

mature, he

new

mistake

And was absolutely awful at doing it.

By having her abandon her life .

No, she isn't.

Lewis.

"manhn" wrote in message news:_C4q9.497893$[email]...

a

Dual-city marriages happen all the time, and it's only for a year. I don't think BKC were trying to make this about abandonment; they were setting M&C up to go through a particular struggle faced by hundreds of couples every day in the US. While the setup may have been written to be funny rather than believable, nobody's abandoning anybody. They are going to have to work through this.

"manhn" wrote in message news:...

Well, we seem to be at an impasse, because I think that she is.

Bottom line, Monica's never been nearly as supportive of Chandler as he has been of her. If nothing else, she owes him. <g>

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:...

Dan, I have to say I agree.

Despite the rather ridiculous way that Chandler found himself heading off to Tulsa, I do think he's been far more mature and gracious about this situation than she has. C/M are my favorite couple on the show and I really like them together, but sometimes I have to wonder about Monica. She made the decision to stay in NYC faster than I can decide what kind of soda to buy standing in front of a vending machine. And some of the things she says sometimes irk me... like saying she *had* to go with him "because of this stupid thing" meaning her wedding ring. That's not very mature. Marriage is a commitment and it's about compromise. Yes, he made a mistake by falling asleep in that meeting and getting himself transferred - although on rewatching 902, I think he would have had to go anyway, or lose his job, am I right? He's getting transferred to Tulsa for a year, he said - not forever. He's going to be president of the company there - a significant promotion, and pay raise as well, I'd assume. He's doing the mature thing, the responsible thing, and going even though his life, his friends, are in NYC. He's got a family to think about now that they've been discussing children, and quitting his job would not be the way to go, financially - even though he's hated what he does since we first met him. In short, he's grown up. Moreso than anyone else on the show, I might even venture to say.

That Monica is choosing to stay in NYC might not even bother me if it was played out differently on the show. But she was so quick to jump on this 'dream job' of hers, and so dismissive of their marriage vows earlier in the episode... I have to say it bugged me. It really did. I would hope that one day when I'm married, my husband would follow me anywhere I had to move for my job, and I would do the same for him - because that's part of what comes after the big lavish wedding and all the nice gifts. I like Monica, but sometimes I just want to smack some sense into her. My god, she's got a *great* husband - he's never been anything but sweet and supportive and understanding of her. She could take a few lessons. :)

In article , [email] (Jess) wrote:

No, but it *was* funny, if you know the characters, which is what I think the writers might have been aiming for, it being a comedy and all.

wg

[email] wrote in message news:...

Actually, it really wasn't that funny, either. But I don't expect much more from the writers these past couple seasons.

The fact that the show sets things up to allow jokes to happen should not surprise anyone by now.

In the early years of the show, they managed to set things up so that at least some semblance of human plot development took place -- the show was funny, yes, but there was dramatic development too that wasn't too compromised by the drive for humor -- which, in many ways (I've said this before, many times), undermines the logic necessary for that development to take place.

After those years, though, such development was sacrificed, often, on the altar of "just be funny."

This is when I ceased worrying enough about the show to write about it -- I expect that these lines are the most I've said on the matter in many a year.

"Jonathan Roberts" wrote in message news:Opsq9.474$[email]...

Yes, remember when Joey laughed at Monica being dumped by Wine Guy? Oh, the humanity!

Lewis.

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:...

Monica DESERVES Chandler, no matter what. Screw the writers since they're responsible for breaking up R&R AND having M&C move to Tulsa!