Alt Tv Rewind

Paul HyettDec 26, 2001, 2:08 AM ET

I thought this would make a change from 'favourite scenes'.

3-12 : TOW All the Jealousy - Joey's last dance scene. 1-15 : TOW the Stoned Guy - Ross practising his dirty talk, to Joey. 2-21 : TOW the Bullies - All of the 'bully' scenes 2-22 : TOW the 2 Parties - Most of the episode! 4-02 : TOW the Cat - Ross being forced to apologise to it.

I know there are lots of others I could list, but those stick in my mind the most. I *always FF past them!

p r i y aDec 26, 2001, 5:03 AM ET↩ Paul Hyett

Paul Hyett wrote in message news:...

What??? I thought that scene was hilarious. Chandler reaction was awesome.

Priya

Marita BakkenDec 26, 2001, 8:28 AM ET↩ p r i y a

On 26 Dec 2001 02:03:19 -0800, [email] (p r i y a) wrote:

I agree, Priya. I think that's one of the funniest scenes in the entire first season.

As for cringeworthy scenes, I would have to go with:

314 TOW Phoebe's Ex-Partner - Ross mouthing "no!!" behind Rachel's back 402 TOW The Cat - The whole cat-story 613 TOW Rachel's Sister - All the scenes with Monica 705 TOW The Engagement Picture - Chandler and his "smile" for the umpteenth time

SofyaDec 26, 2001, 10:49 AM ET↩ Marita Bakken

"Marita Bakken" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

awesome.

Definately the TOW the Cat...this was the stupidest storyline up to 811, seriously! And i think Ross should have beat Phoebe with a "get a brain" stick. TOW the Engagement Picture made me aware how excrutiatingly UGLY Chandler looks when he's so thin.

And personally i thought all the scenes with Phoebe getting pregnant, talking w/ her bro & his wife, giving birth...etc. I thought they were all boring. Just my opinion.

Sofya

Paul HyettDec 26, 2001, 2:30 PM ET↩ Sofya

On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Sofya stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

That's 3 nominations so far...

p r i y aDec 27, 2001, 6:02 AM ET↩ Marita Bakken

[email] (Marita Bakken) wrote in message news:...

Thanks. I was a bit suprised when Tennant sent me his list of favourite eps. and this wasn't in it. But he later said he liked parts of the episdode.

Yup these were all cringeworthy scenes. :)

I'll add 523-524 Joey's Hand Twin Story All the Eddie scenes Rachel making a fool of herself with the moo point story with Tag Actually, most Tag stories

Can't think of anymore just now.

Priya

Paul HyettDec 26, 2001, 2:27 PM ET↩ p r i y a

On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, p r i y a stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

I nearly always find 'gay' scenes involving obviously straight characters, cringeworthy.

p r i y aDec 27, 2001, 5:54 AM ET↩ Paul Hyett

Paul Hyett wrote in message news:...

Oh okay. Gay jokes are almost always on Chandler. So, this was a nice change.

Priya

JamesS1889Dec 31, 2001, 9:37 PM ET↩ Paul Hyett

spoiler

Reading the "Small promo for TOW Joey Dates Rachel" thread and Claire's discussion with johnsonwalker reminded me of a particularly cringeworthy scene in (I believe) episode 102 TOW The Sonogram At The End.

The scene involved Ross, Susan, and Carol either at the hospital or at Carol's doctor's office. The very idea that Susan "We agreed on Minne" Bunch should have as much say in the naming of Carol and Ross' child, much less more say than Ross, I found incredibly offensive. Almost as offensive as the notion that the baby's last name will not be Geller nor even contain Geller.

Admittedly, Ross to easily gets drawn into a pissing match with Susan, one that he's not even up to, but to see someone who had *absolutely* nothing whatsoever to do with bringing this child into the world presuming to displace the biological father in these decisions strikes me as twisted. Fortunately, Ross was able to contribute to the naming of the child after all in 123 TOW The Birth - the first name, that is.

But still. Susan doesn't want the child to bear the name of its father, and even wants to bypass said father in the first-naming process, and she has the gall to accuse Ross of trying "to get his way"????

Annica SvenssonDec 26, 2001, 10:31 AM ET↩ Paul Hyett

TOW the Proposal when Chandler and Monica proposes. Its' embarrassingly badly acted and it's also badly written. I've only watched the scene once and always fast forward it.

Paul Hyett skrev i diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:[email]...

Paul HyettDec 26, 2001, 2:29 PM ET↩ Annica Svensson

On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Annica Svensson stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

You're not the only one who thinks that (Hi, Claire A.), but I have to disagree, I found it very moving.

XMuSicFrEAk820Dec 26, 2001, 4:55 PM ET↩ Annica Svensson

I totally agree with you. They were trying to create another GREAT scene like Ross and Rachel's break up but they failed. (I hated the fact that RnR broke up but that was like the best performed scene ever!) Monica and Chandler's relationship is pretty mushy anyway and they make me kind of cringe too.

The cat storyline in 402 was kind of bad too. The Engagement picture episode was funny at first but got annoying after a while.

Lance AppolonaireDec 27, 2001, 8:40 PM ET↩ Annica Svensson

Yeah, that scene has to be the WORST EVER. It was the complete opposite of when Rachel found out about what Ross did or tried to do on her Prom night........THAT was the best scene ever.

On Wed, 26 Dec 2001 15:31:52 GMT, "Annica Svensson" wrote:

CandiGrrlDec 29, 2001, 3:32 PM ET↩ Annica Svensson

Annica Svensson wrote in message ...

Me too. Can't bear that scene. In fact, I don't like much of that entire episode. I'm not too keen on the whole Ross/pants/powder/paste storyline in TOW All The Resolutions either... hmm, let's see, what else... oh, I know! That HORRIBLE Screechy Monica bit in TOW Chandler Can't Cry!!! I can't even watch that ep!

SofyaJan 4, 2002, 10:04 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

"CandiGrrl" wrote in message news:a0l987$7et$[email]...

I thought that the Ross leather pants scene where he can't them back on was one of the funniest scenes ever. So hilarious!

hmm, let's see, what else... oh, I know! That HORRIBLE

ep!

CandiGrrlJan 5, 2002, 3:54 AM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a15qcr$c9v$[email]...

once

The

was

Well, I liked Joey in it, I have to say - but I would have preferred it if they hadn't had that storyline. I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here though! :)

Tennant StuartJan 5, 2002, 1:24 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

In article , "CandiGrrl" wrote:

I agree with you Mari. Joey's weird guitar lessons were good, and Rachel learning the big secret, but the leather pants story was cringeworthy.

But of course, the *best* thing in the episode, was all the Ross/Phoebe and Joey/Rachel foreshadowing... :)

Tennant

CandiGrrlJan 7, 2002, 12:06 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Tennant Stuart wrote in message news:...

I liked Monica's pictures too, actually. Did you? I just loved the bit where she went over to pose with them with the camera on a timer :)

"I bet they're doing it!"

Tennant StuartJan 7, 2002, 7:30 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

In article , [email] (CandiGrrl) wrote:

Yes, even when you see it as a rerun, you're like "what is she doing?" for a moment before the flash goes off.

Exactly, and Joey cleverly manipulating his friends so that he gets Rachel to kiss at midnight, and how his logic dictates that Ross gets Phoebe.

Tennant

CandiGrrlJan 8, 2002, 5:49 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Tennant Stuart wrote in message news:...

Hehe! I love that.

Of course... how could I forget that?

SofyaJan 8, 2002, 3:18 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

"CandiGrrl" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

back

Rachel

cringeworthy.

Ross/Phoebe

Rachel

"joey" and "logic," oh not that again. Ross and Monica are siblings and the rest is just concidence. If you're going to poke into every thing that happened since Season 1 and say that it was fate or subconsciously there were feelings behind it then you're just going to get disappointed; because only the writers forecast whether there are feelings behind it or not. We can only guess or pretend or play denial and say "oh that must be because Joey has secret feelings for Rachel" or the sort.

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 8, 2002, 7:42 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

It was *so* not coincidence!

At every step of the way, Joey did indeed use logic to talk his friends into doing things the way he wanted them to, and in very little time.

Why do some people feel the need to dismiss *every* time that Joey is clever, and then go on & on about how dumb they think he is?

Tennant

Paul HyettJan 9, 2002, 5:31 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Tennant Stuart stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

Simple - this is Usenet! :)

abrahammyJan 10, 2002, 12:35 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

He's both, Tennant. Sometimes he is very clever indeed, and sometimes he's a dumb as a mud puddle. He's a swiss army knife; the writers use him for whatever purpose they have at the time, and it's not always consistent. I think Joey is generally more effective when he's clever. but I don't think the writers put as much thought into this as you do.

Tennant StuartJan 11, 2002, 8:09 AM ET↩ abrahammy

In article , "abrahammy" wrote:

A lot of the time that people say he's dumb, it's really because they do not understand his cleverness, but of course they don't see it that way.

As for blaming the writers, you're the one who taught me to follow the text.

Tennant

Julio DuarteJan 12, 2002, 11:15 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Tennant Stuart wrote in message news:...

There's a difference between being dumb and being uneducated. Joey is clever on a basic, intuitive level, but he's no book lover. But remember how he once bought the "V" volume of an encyclopaedia and learned a whole lot out of it? Only, when he attempted to show off his newly acquired knowledge, as soon as the conversation started drifting away from "V" words, he got stuck.

Tennant StuartJan 13, 2002, 7:21 PM ET↩ Julio Duarte

In article , [email] (Julio Duarte) wrote:

Indeed, that's a good example of the advantages & limitations of learning from books. And of course dumb people do not read books at all, let alone whole volumes of encyclopedias, "I wanna see how this bad boy turns out".

Tennant

JamesS1889Jan 13, 2002, 1:31 PM ET↩ abrahammy

Was just watching my Vol 4 DVD of Best of Friends, and found a cringeworthy scene or two:

1. TOW All The Resolutions: The sight of Ross in his girlfriend's bathroom trying to fix his predicament with his leather pants. I cringe all over just watching that.

2. TOW Chandler Is In The Box: Sorry, but idea of Joey lecturing Chandler on what it means to be a friend really offends me big time. The whole "Chandler In The Box" act two in Monica and Rachel's apartment was done fairly well, and of course it ended well. I believe that what Chandler did was wrong. I believe that Joey was sincerely offended by it. And I believe that in Joey's little world (and it belongs to the other 5 as well, since nobody seemed to think Joey was out of line), the punishment fit the crime.

All of which makes me shake my head and roll my eyes at what a twisted morality governs a group of 6 so-called friends that looks the other way as Joey constantly two-times the women he goes out with, while crucifying Chandler for accidentally falling in love with a woman Joey was no longer interested in anyway. The only one who came close to criticizing Joey for his punishment was, you guessed it:

Ross. Who else?

KathyJan 13, 2002, 5:53 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

Actually, I thought this was one of the funniest scenes ever by Ross! Joey had no clue how to fix Ross's predicament, but yet Ross was buying everything he said. It is especially funny when Ross's hand slips and he whacks himself in the head. ~~ Kathy

all over just watching that.

Tennant StuartJan 14, 2002, 8:28 AM ET↩ Kathy

In article , "Kathy" wrote:

Joey gave Ross perfectly good advice - to use talcum powder to dry off his legs, and enable the pants to slip back on. This is what divers do to pull their very tight leggings on.

What Ross did was quite stupid. Instead of a normal amount of powder that he carefully rubbed in, he covered himself with clumps of the stuff.

When Ross reported his failure, Joey advised him to try Vaseline instead, a poorer, but still sensible suggestion, since it's a lubricant.

What Ross did was even more stupid. Instead of cleaning off the clumps of powder *first*, he sprayed lotion (not Vaseline) on top of the powder.

Tennant Stuart

SofyaJan 14, 2002, 1:01 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

He put it on top of the powder because Joey said "yeah, throw that on there." Joey was bullshitting...anybody knows powder or Vaseline could do the trick if not used together.

See for yourself:

Ross: No, I-I got really hot in my leather pants so I took them off but they must have shrunk from the-the sweat or-or-or my legs expanded from the heat. Look, I-I can't put them back on. I can't!

Joey: Oh. That is quite a situation. Uh, do you see any like, powder?

Ross: Powder! Yeah! Yeah, I have powder! (Grabs some of her shelf.)

Joey: Good-good, okay, sprinkle some of that on your legs, it'll absorb some of the moisture and then you can get your pants back up.

Ross: Yeah, okay, hold on! (He puts the phone down and proceeds to spread a large amount of powder on his legs and makes another attempt at pulling up his pants. It doesn't work, and without picking up the phone leans down to it.) (Almost in tears.) They're not coming on man.

Joey: Umm, do you see anyï¿½oh, Vaseline?

Ross: Ohh, I-I see lotion, I have lotion! Will that work?

Joey: Yeah, sure, spread some of that on there.

Ross: Hold on.

(Ross proceeds to apply copious amounts of the lotion on his legs. He literally starts spraying the back of his legs with the lotion, and as he applies some to his butt he makes a happy face like he enjoyed that sensation. After using about half the bottle he again tries to pull up his pants, but at the first sign of resistance, his hand slips off of the pants and hits him in the forehead.)

Joey: Ross? You okay?

Ross: They're still, they're still not coming on man and the lotion and the powder have made a paste!

Joey: Really?! Uhh, what color is it?

Ross: What difference does that make?!

Joey: Well, I'm justï¿½if the paste matches the pants, you can make yourself a pair of paste pants and she won't know the difference!

Rachel: (entering) Joey, do you have a minute?

Ross: Dude, what am I gonnaï¿½

Joey: (To Ross) Uh, Rachel's here, so good luck man, let me know how it works out. (He hangs up the phone and strands Ross in the bathroom.)

-------

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 14, 2002, 1:15 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Where does Joey say that?

Joey did say "Yeah, sure, spread some of that on there." and he was referring to letting Ross use lotion instead of Vaseline, he wasn't telling him to throw it on top of the powder.

Anybody but Ross in a panic. You can't have it both ways, Sofya.

Joey's mistake was to assume that Ross would use the tiniest amount of intelligence about what he was doing. The advice itself was good.

Tennant

SofyaJan 15, 2002, 12:11 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Well obviously he knows Ross has powder on his legs, when he says "spread some of that on there" he knows that Ross has to put it on top of the powder.

Ross: Ohh, I-I see lotion, I have lotion! Will that work?

Joey: Yeah, sure, spread some of that on there.

and he was

And what did Ross do wrong? Besides creating a paste BECAUSE of Joey?

The advice itself was good.

Tennant StuartJan 15, 2002, 7:54 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Sofya, I'm afraid this is exactly what I mean about you having a closed mind. Joey is trying to advise someone on the other end of a phone line, so he can't see what that person is doing. Ross is acting quite foolishly yet you excuse him and hang it all on Joey.

Ross is a big grown boy who should not need his hand holding. It's okay that he might not know the diver's trick with talcum powder, but it was his own fault for putting lotion onto it, not the guy on the phone who couldn't see. You have to let Ross take responsibility for his actions.

Tennant

SofyaJan 16, 2002, 12:06 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

"spread

Joey meant for Ross to put lotion on top of the powder because he doesn't know better. That is why he wasn't surprised that a paste was created.

Tennant StuartJan 16, 2002, 1:25 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Sigh. I give up Sofya, you are just not listening.

Tennant

DennisJan 16, 2002, 1:49 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

"spread

Ok ok.. Yes, Ross is a big grown boy and is partly at fault but Ross was under extreme pressure and wasn't thinking straight, whereas Joey (who originally was looking for Chandler cause he obviously didn't think that he could provide any help) was sitting casually on his stool providing solutions. It was Ross's mistake for taking advise from Joey in the first place (although he didn't have any alternative and was desperate) but it appeared (to me) that it was Joey's mistake all in all.

Tennant StuartJan 16, 2002, 7:23 PM ET↩ Dennis

In article , "Dennis" wrote:

Ross was there in the bathroom, Joey was not.

The advice about using talcum powder was good, and that is not my humble opinion since that's how divers cope with a similar situation. But unseen to Joey, Ross panicked. That can't be used to criticise Joey.

Tennant

SofyaJan 16, 2002, 11:11 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

you are the one not listening...Joey knew Ross was going to put the lotion on the powder. Why would you think he didn't know? Maybe he thought that putting them together would be another way to put the pants back on...and thats why he said put "that on there."

Sofya

JamesS1889Jan 15, 2002, 8:22 AM ET↩ Kathy

In article , "Kathy" writes:

Tennant StuartJan 15, 2002, 7:57 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

Yep, I totally agree James. :)

Tennant

TriggerJan 24, 2002, 2:12 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Tennant Stuart wrote in message news:[email]...

[email]

"Kathy"

idea

Agreed!

LaurieJan 14, 2002, 1:57 AM ET↩ JamesS1889

"JamesS1889" wrote in message news:[email]...

just

I laughed till I fell over with that scene!

on

"Chandler

and

Joey's

morality

for

That was a strange episode for me. I just couldn't understand Joey's "logic" at all. I couldn't understand the writers' points of view about it, either.

Tennant StuartJan 14, 2002, 8:30 AM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

How many examples can you provide to justify that word "constantly"?

Tennant

JamesS1889Jan 16, 2002, 8:21 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

One is sufficient:

106 - TOW The Butt:

... Monica: Oh. I'm sorry it didn't work out.

Chandler: What 'not work out'? I'm seeing her again on Thursday. Didn't you listen to the story?

Monica: Didn't you listen to the story? I mean, this is twisted! How could you get involved with a woman like this?

Chandler: Well, y'know, I had some trouble with it at first too, but the way I look at it is, I get all the good stuff: all the fun, all the talking, all the sex; and none of the responsibility. I mean, this is every guy's fantasy!

Phoebe: Oh, yeah. That is not true. Ross, is this your fantasy?

Ross: No, of course not! (Thinks) ...Yeah, yeah, it is.

Monica: What? So you guys don't mind going out with someone else who's going out with someone else?

Joey: I couldn't do it.

Monica: Good for you, Joey.

Joey: When I'm with a woman, I need to know that I'm going out with more people than she is.

...

Tennant StuartJan 16, 2002, 1:27 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

Oh, come on James. You should judge him by what he does, not what he says.

Heaven help you if someone is recording every word you say, to hold one remark against you seven years later as evidence of constant infidelity.

Tennant

SofyaJan 16, 2002, 11:12 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

[email]

Are we not watching the same show? Tennant, you definately must be like Joey if you don't think he's a player.

Sofya

JamesS1889Jan 18, 2002, 8:21 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

I disagree, at least in this case. I think Joey was proud of himself when he said it.

Tennant StuartJan 18, 2002, 1:32 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

Even if he was proud of it, that doesn't make his words true.

The only time AFAIAA that we have seen Joey two-timing anyone was in 407 "TOW Chandler Crosses the Line", when he had an early dinner with Casey, while planning a late dinner with Kathy.

Despite that boast, you cannot describe him as "constantly" two-timing women, and his actions are not quite so bad as Phoebe dating both Jason and Vince in 323 "TOW Ross's Thing", or Ross cheating on Rachel & Chloe in 316 "TOT Morning After", or for quantity Ross three-timing a woman from Poughkeepsie, a woman from uptown New York, and a woman from Nova Scotia in 410 "TOW the Girl from Poughkeepsie".

Tennant

SofyaJan 18, 2002, 7:32 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

[email]

infidelity.

THEY WERE ON A BREAKKKK!!!

SofyaJan 18, 2002, 7:34 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

[email]

OMG, OMG, OMG!! You are so LOST!! I'm pretty sure you were the only one that actually DOES NOT BELIEVE Joey when he said that. Are you kidding?? I find Joey to be the most truthful out of all of the friends...i mean as in he tells the truth to his friends...not to his numerous g/fs he's dating at the same time.

Sofya

infidelity.

TriggerJan 24, 2002, 2:15 PM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a2af3u$akc$[email]...

that

find

the

Wow, you don't have to yell. Remember, we already talked about what is civil and what is not. :o)

SofyaJan 24, 2002, 9:59 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:X2Z38.12524$[email]...

Stuart

It wasn't yelling, thats just what was going on in my head when i read his post(OMG, OMG, OMG). It was supposed to be funny yelling, not rude yelling. And we can yell in a ng anyway.

Sofya

abrahammyJan 25, 2002, 12:25 AM ET↩ Sofya

This thread appears to be turning into a Cringeworthy Scene.

Seran PerryJan 25, 2002, 7:37 AM ET↩ abrahammy

<~~~Seran and her alter egos fall over themselves laughing

hehehehehehehe!

DennisJan 19, 2002, 5:28 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

[email]

infidelity.

I think that Joey also did the same when he slept with Lauren and then with Kate (TOW With the Screamer).

JamesS1889Jan 20, 2002, 8:22 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

Oh, I think it does. It is certainly true that that is part of his philosophy of dating. I hardly think Joey defies his own philosophy in practice.

Interesting that you should bring up the very situation I was commenting on ;-) Even if I was wrong about my general statement about Joey, I was right about it in this particular case, which is sufficient to make Joey's self-righteous attitude in the scene I mentioned quite insufferable.

Oh, but I can. Speculating about what happens off-screen is, as always, imprecise, but in this case I believe I am entitled to think this was not the only time for Joey.

As for whether others are as bad or worse than Joey, that is irrelevant to my argument. Joey was the guy pontificating about how people should treat each other, and he didn't have even half a leg to stand on.

Tennant StuartJan 20, 2002, 6:21 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

Whilst being pleased by the way you word that, I must then ask where are all these other women he's been dating? Who was he going out with when he was at the restaurant with Bob, Monica, and Angela Delvecchio? Who else did he screw while at Monica's party with Sandy? Whose bed did he visit while Lorraine was slathering him with three chocolate mousses? Did Joey kissing Phoebe mean that he was cheating on Ursula? Was he pleasuring all three of the Basketeers? Did he screw the whole casting team for DooL to get that part? What about him dating Sophie before he got anywhere with Kate Miller who knew all about it, or did he carry on with Sophie just to fulfil his personal philosophy? Did the stripper steal Ross's ring while Joey had nipped out to screw another floozie from the agency? Did Fergie help out when he became bored with Felicity? Did timid Cynthia run away just in time for Joey's second woman of the evening? Was he dating the sexy teacher at the male self-defense class while Katie was hitting his shoulder? Did he sneak a whole string of non-smoking, non-ugly possible roomies into his bed, while Janine was asleep next door? Did Phoebe have sex with Joey so he could cheat on Amy, to earn herself more free muffins and lattes? Did he have sex with the woman at the hardware store because the drycleaner's wife was getting too needy? How many more women was Joey hoping to take to an upstate bed & breakfast with Erin? Was every actress on the cast of Dool spreading her legs for Joey while he was with Cecilia Munro? Since Kristen Lang had two guys, who were Joey's other two girls?

You're welcome, James. :)

Well, that was the point of that aspect of the story I guess, to make what Chandler was doing with Kathy more palatable to the audience. Certainly, on this occasion Joey was two-timing. Maybe he'd done it before, or since, but if he has we just don't know, and can't assume that.

Yes, I'll agree with that - if he did it once, maybe he did it more than once. But we have no grounds for assuming that he did it constantly.

Fair enough, he was in the wrong; but if everybody in "Friends" behaved like saints, there would be no dramatic conflict in the show - and the barbs of "Seinfeld" fans about its supposed niceness would come true.

Maybe, but the quote from 106 comes from when Chandler was having sex with a married woman, who was seeing several other guys. :)

Tennant

JamesS1889Jan 22, 2002, 10:53 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

Since you're the one with the database and/or all that extra time, let's just skip past the part where I dutifully answer "nowhere/noone/noone's/no" or whatever as the case may be. Some of them, I can't even remember ;-)

One possibility: if the writers actually showed Joey being the two-timer often enough to satisfy your criteria, he'd be far less likeable, or likeable to a narrower scope of prospective viewers.

I would claim that if he hasn't, it's only because he hasn't had the opportunity. I realize that is hard to prove, but remember we're only talking about 8 years out of Joey's life. This is the guy who had lots of sex in high school, remember? It is possible that he was like that in season 1, but was beginning to move away from it. However, the ease with which he two-timed Kathy makes me feel like he wasn't that much out of practice ;-)

Sufficient grounds? Perhaps not. No grounds???? That I don't buy, for the reasons already stated.

Excuse me? We've been overdosing on sainthood in "Friends" lately? There has been an epidemic of saintly acts on our favorite show and I somehow missed it?

Who are all these saints you see clogging up the universe we call "Friends", burying the sinners under all the rubble of sainthood?

Just what exactly is your definition of "saint"?

Tennant StuartJan 23, 2002, 1:04 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

Well okay, but even so that long list which you so casually dismiss is what *you* are saying. The word "constantly" means that Joey was two-timing every single one of those women (except for Kristen whom he'd have to three-time) yet there is not the slightest shred of evidence in any of those episodes for Joey doing that, let alone in all of them, which is what you are saying.

Yep, and maybe Joey's boast was just something he said when Chandler was being the stud of the group, and has no further relevance.

You can't draw a graph through one point, James. One might just as well extrapolate that Ross & Phoebe are also constantly two-timing.

It's that word "constantly" James. It means an awful lot, and needs an awful lot of evidence to back it up. You're making a mountain out of a molehill, and I reckon you know it - you just won't admit you're wrong.

That's what I'm saying, "Friends" is not saintly as "Seinfeld" fans claim.

Please read what I said more carefully.

And again.

In that case, you should see that Joey was making an idle boast, not confessing his sins to a priest, or testifying under oath in court.

Tennant

JamesS1889Jan 24, 2002, 2:04 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

I did *not* casually dismiss it. I conceded it.

three-time)

No, that is not what I am saying. "constantly" is not the same as "always". In fact it is a bit on the vague side. It may often seem like it is "always", but in fact I did not mean it that way. "often" perhaps would have been more like it.

Maybe. I don't believe so, but you are entitled to your opinion. It is certainly possible.

You may be right, though you lost me with the reference to Ross & Phoebe.

Forgive me, but it sounds to me like you are saying I don't have anywhere near sufficient grounds, and of course I would be insane to try to convict Joey in a court of law. But it is simply not true that I have absolutely *no* grounds whatsoever for what I thought of him in season 4.

I responded:

You responded back:

Oh dear, we've taken a wrong turn into confusion-land again.

*That* is precisely what I am saying as well.

Please read what you said more carefully: "but if everybody in 'Friends' behaved like saints, there would be no dramatic conflict in the show."

"if everybody"????? I'd like to see just one of them behave that way once a season, is what I'm saying. In other words, I don't think you really have anything to worry about regarding Friends being too saintly, so I don't understand why you would bring up this caution.

Sorry, I still don't know. For one thing, "and the barbs of 'Seinfeld' fans about its supposed niceness would come true" means nothing to me because I am totally unfamiliar with what you are talking about.

I responded:

You responded back:

I don't.

That is patently obvious, and not at all what I was implying. He was boasting, but I hardly believe he was telling tall tales. That was simply not true to Joey's character, at least not in the first 4 seasons.

Frankly, my impression about Joey gains added plausibility from what someone else pointed out in this thread, namely that Joey in the first 4 seasons never really viewed the women he went out with as persons in the fullest sense of the word. Priya, I think it was, put it a lot better than I am here. I didn't bring that up because you never said that Joey wasn't shallow toward women, the issue we were debating was specifically about whether he two-times a lot or not. Nevertheless, I suspect that is part of why I believe the way I do. We probably draw different conclusions from that data. --- James Squire - http://members.aol.com/jamess1889

p r i y aJan 24, 2002, 5:43 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

[email] (JamesS1889) wrote in message news:...

Oops! I was supposed to be helping Tennant's case. Sorry pal. :)

James, Ross and Phoebe have two-timed but why attack only Joey? And Ross and Phoebe cheated or two-timed on people who they had a serious relationship with. Joey only two-timed on women he had no feelings for. I don't think that means he looks at women as sex objects. There have been woman who he has been sincere with..ie Kate, Janine. A lot of things go unsaid on the show. I'm willing to bet that Phoebe two-times more often than Joey has.

I didn't

Oh great, all of what I said above is totally pointless to your argument. But are you trying to establish to that he two-times a lot and if so mark his character badly. Then that would be wrong, he's got the highest set of morals among all six.

Priya

SofyaJan 24, 2002, 9:47 PM ET↩ p r i y a

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

[email]

Stuart

are

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episodes for

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ROFL!

JamesS1889Jan 26, 2002, 3:12 AM ET↩ p r i y a

In article , [email] (p r i y a) writes:

If you'll recall, it was Joey's holier-than-thou attitude toward Chandler's transgression that turned my crank in the first place. I don't recall either Ross or Phoebe being this judgmental and hypocritical.

I strongly disagree. To me, viewing women as sex objects is distinct from two-timing. I think the very fact that Joey constantly has sex with women for whom he had no feelings is evidence enough for this conclusion.

Yes.

Maybe so, but that is not the point I was trying to make.

Well, I'm sorry Priya. Apparently I misrepresented your viewpoint. Something you said resonated with me, but obviously you draw a different conclusion from it than I do.

As for Joey having the highest set of morals among all six, I could not disagree more. Lowest would be more like it in my book. Note, we were talking about the Joey of season 4. I have in no way made comments about the way Joey is in season 8. The Cringeworthy scene that started all this was from season 4. --- James Squire - http://members.aol.com/jamess1889

Tennant StuartJan 24, 2002, 7:07 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

Oh - okay then, I'm sorry James.

Shall we go for "occasionally"? :)

Let's just say that there must be many girlfriends that we have never seen, and some of those *may* have been two-timed. But of the girls that we have seen, only Kathy was two-timed, and she two-timed Joey.

Ross cheated on Rachel, and he three-timed in S4-10. Phoebe led two guys a merry dance in 323, and she may also be bigamist.

Okay, you didn't like his attitude about Kathy & Chandler. Fair enough, it was hypocritical, but this whole show is about six friends against the world, so what Chandler did to Joey is counted as being worse.

Yep - let us please agree to agree. :)

Well, how about Monica's sacrifice for Chandler in 717 "TOW the Cheap Wedding Dress"? A good girlfriend might give up the perfect gown like that, but IMHO what was saintly about her actions was that she never took any credit for it, to save him from feeling guilty.

I just think we should draw conclusions from what we see Joey doing, not from one thing he said. If Chandler had said that, he would just be regarded as making a wisecrack.

Tennant

SofyaJan 24, 2002, 10:45 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

[email]

Thats because it would probably be a wisecrack, lol.

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:07 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

I'm afraid that attitude is exactly what I mean, Sofya. :)

Tennant

JamesS1889Jan 26, 2002, 3:12 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

Ok ;-) I'll take "often" and you take "occasionally", and who knows, maybe we'll meet in the middle somewhere ;-)

OK.

Ah. I remember now ;-)

I *know* that, Tennant. It is in fact quite typical of group dynamics. It is by no means praiseworthy. I find it to be a twisted kind of ethic.

I responded:

You responded back:

Well, we don't, not really, it's just an optical illusion. You were expressing a genuine fear that "Friends" was on the verge of a sainthood epidemic. I was expressing the view that "Friends" dabbles in sainthood so rarely it isn't even funny. Somehow we both end up saying that "Friends" is not saintly, but we're like two ships passing in the night on that one. Any agreement between us is momentary at best, at least that's how it seems to me.

I didn't say it never happened, I just think it so rare that there is no danger of overdosing on it.

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:17 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

I'm not going further than "occasionally", take it or leave it, James :)

Okay.

Yep, and elsewhere Claire has said that Rachel was guilty of cheating when she had sex with Barry knowing he was in a committed relationship with Mindy, and I agree with her (Claire, that is).

And Ross would have cheated on Carol with Phoebe if they hadn't been interrupted (though Claire is absolutely right to point out that this was more or less written in to prepare us for Ross & Chloe).

Fair enough James, but that dynamic is the "sit" of this sitcom.

James James James - without debating this point any further, will you *please* just trust me, and accept that we are in complete agreement about it, but somehow caught at cross-purposes?

Okay.

Well, Chandler was having sex with a glamorous serial adulteress at the time, that's pretty hot to me. But I would say that Chandler, and Monica, are the least likely to cheat out of the six.

Tennant

DennisFeb 1, 2002, 9:51 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

David BuehrleFeb 1, 2002, 9:10 PM ET↩ Dennis

"Dennis" wrote in message news:[email]...

But Ross never technically cheated on Rachel. Cheating is when you dally while in a committed relationship. The only time he dallied was after she broke off the commitment.

The point being that it was a committed relationship.

off

Not only that, but Carol had already called it off. Even though the paperwork wasn't finished, the relationship was done.

JamesS1889Feb 1, 2002, 9:31 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

OK, same with me and "often" ;-)

I *know* that, too. What's your point? I never said it wasn't.

Tennant StuartFeb 2, 2002, 9:54 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

Feh. For something that we have only seen happen *once*, "occasionally" is already going a long way; thus I'm not accepting even "often" for a proposition that we just do not see in the show. It's sheer speculation.

Well, what are you arguing for?

So why are you still arguing about it?

Tennant

JamesS1889Feb 4, 2002, 12:38 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

Hence we agree to disagree.

Beats the heck out of me. You have this unintentional (I trust) talent for sucking me into such arguments. When this whole thing started, all I was doing was sharing my own contribution for Most Cringeworthy Scene. The argument was over an assertion that I made about how often Joey two-timing women. The fact that "this whole show is about six friends against the world" is quite irrelevant to the argument we were having as far as I can tell, which is all I'm trying to tell you here, and having succeeded in getting us off on a tangent, you then ask me why I'm arguing.

<sigh>

Tennant StuartFeb 7, 2002, 1:29 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

If you like, we've been arguing about this long enough.

I suggest we agree to agree, James. :)

Lol

Tennant

JamesS1889Feb 16, 2002, 1:43 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Oh, Tennant? I couldn't help think of you today, as I listened to my Friends Soundtrack (the second one), and on the tail end of the track called "Delicious" was yet another damning quote from Joey from "TOW The Metaphorical Tunnel".

Something to the effect of, "Well, I've never been through the tunnel myself, because as I understand it, you're not allowed to go through with more than one woman in the car, right?"

Tennant StuartFeb 17, 2002, 6:30 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

Joey has a reputation to keep up, it's all just talk.

I thought we'd agreed to differ?

Tennant

JamesS1889Feb 18, 2002, 12:53 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

ROFLMAO. Whatever floats your boat ;-)

We did. You didn't see the smiley? The wink and the nod?

SofyaFeb 18, 2002, 4:10 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

[email]

Would you want there to be a vote in this newsgroup on your opinion versus James'? (just for fun)

Sofya

Seran PerryFeb 19, 2002, 6:24 AM ET↩ Sofya

I vote James. but I haven't been paying much attention. I just want the controversy

p r i y aFeb 19, 2002, 9:09 AM ET↩ Seran Perry

[email] (Seran Perry) wrote in message news:...

I vote Tennant. - Priya

SofyaFeb 4, 2002, 6:07 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

[email]

:)

In that case, we are speculating about everything that happens on Friends. That Ross sees Ben every weekend, that Ross goes with Rachel to her appointments, that Chandler still has his job, that Phoebe visits the triplets, etc. You can't use speculation when it comes to Joey and the above. They don't have to show us everytime he does it because there are only 24/25 episodes a season and 30 minutes to an hour...what would be the point of showing him cheating on every girl(i mean "often" not "always") in every episode? Besides the fact that we would get bored...we would basically "get the point." Besides the fact that Joey talks about his numerous galpals and going on 2 dates with two different women in one day, I feel its safe to say that Joey isn't faithful....BUT I guess i don't count it "cheating" with Joey because i think cheating is for actual relationships like he had with Janine and Kathy. He cheated on Kathy; he called to tell chandler to stall Kathy because he was on a date with another woman. So here's what i'm saying. I dont' think its cheating but if there is such a thing as cheating in "non-relationships" then Joey is doing it.

Sofya

ethic.

LaurieFeb 4, 2002, 8:23 PM ET↩ Sofya

"Sofya" wrote in message news:a3n45p$137$[email]...

I don't consider Joey a "cheater" since you have to actually be in a real relationship to cheat. I would call Joey a "player".

DennisFeb 5, 2002, 1:21 PM ET↩ Sofya

David BuehrleFeb 5, 2002, 8:54 PM ET↩ Dennis

"Dennis" wrote in message news:[email]...

Stuart

James

"occasionally"

speculation.

Friends.

are

the

relationships

tell

a

long

But wait a sec. The thing with Kathy-Casey was while he was still determining whether he wanted to settle on just one woman, wasn't it. IIRC, he could get off with a technicality. He wouldn't even need a break. There was nothing to break from . . . yet. I could be wrong. I'm winging it on this one.

p r i y aFeb 6, 2002, 2:28 AM ET↩ David Buehrle

"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:...

Joey never thought of Kathy as a serious relationship. He's even told Chandler that they're 'not exclusive'. Thats how he saw that relationship. So, I don't think we can make a big deal about him going on a date with Casey.

Lauren was a kid and a bit of an airhead if I remember correctly. I think, she was shown that way to show the contrast between her and Kate. (We saw the same scenario in 812 where Joey's date was a moron and he realises that he doesn't want to be spending time with her and goes back to his room mate that he secretly loves.) Joey, obviously in love with Kate goes after her. Not much different but a lot better than what Ross did with the Julie/Rachel situation. No Dennis, I'm not bashing Ross, just pointing out the similarity.

We can point fingers and scream "cheater" if he cheated on people like Kathy, Janine where he was supposed to have genuine feelings. The others were all just women he dated with no strings/feelings attached.

Priya

LaurieFeb 6, 2002, 2:58 AM ET↩ p r i y a

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

Didn't Joey get Lauren into the sack and then dump her in favor of Kate? I know you all love Joey and I do too but he has had a habit of jumping into the sack with girls he doesn't seen to care too much for. I mean if you're going to constantly compare Ross and Joey on very selective storylines(and this is getting a little old, in my opinion) I would say that what Joey did was not better at all.

p r i y aFeb 6, 2002, 10:32 AM ET↩ Laurie

"Laurie" wrote in message news:...

Actually, this discussion has been about Joey sleeping around a lot and some have claimed that he is constantly cheating. I put the example with Ross on the table only to point out that the Ross has done the same thing too. What Ross did to Julie was a lot worse than what Joey did to Lauren cos he wasn't in a proper relationship with her like Ross was with Julie. So, why is it okay for Ross to dump Julie for Rachel and its not okay if Joey dumps Lauren for Kate?

Priya

LaurieFeb 6, 2002, 4:02 PM ET↩ p r i y a

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

What Ross did to Julie was worse only in that it was because they had a real relationship and it hurt her more. I guess that's what you mean. But (in my opinion, anyway) it's worse to jump into the sack with people you have no relationship with than to wait until there is some real feeling there. That is why I feel that what Joey did was worse.

David BuehrleFeb 6, 2002, 11:44 PM ET↩ Laurie

"Laurie" wrote in message news:nRg88.30159$[email]...

and

in

Kate?

I

Ross was in a relationship with Julie, which surely caused her a lot of emotional pain when Ross broke up with her, but keep in mind, he broke up with her BEFORE he tried to get anything going with Rachel. So, that's not cheating.

LaurieFeb 7, 2002, 12:32 AM ET↩ David Buehrle

"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:8Dn88.364289$[email]...

I really wonder what people think Ross should have done about Julie in this instance. Never break up with her because it would hurt her feelings?

p r i y aFeb 7, 2002, 10:25 AM ET↩ Laurie

"Laurie" wrote in message news:...

Well, Joey didn't exactly jump into the sake with Kate either. So, how's that cheating?

Nobody's saying that. Nobody cared for Julie cos she was just a temporary situation in the long saga of Ross and Rachel. I for one, was glad to see her go because I was a R&R fan at the time. The reason I bought her up in this discussion is not to discuss if she was treated badly or not. I did it only to arguments about Joey's character. Nobody cared when Ross cooly dumps one woman for another. But many R&R fans are going through everything that Joey did in the last seven years against him in the current situation. U get?

Priya

DennisFeb 7, 2002, 11:33 AM ET↩ p r i y a

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

correctly. I

and

moron

her

obviously

better

Dennis, I'm

of

much for.

very

opinion)

lot

than

with

had

mean.

of

I should check this first but I'll just say it anyway. I think that Joey slept with Kate one night and then broke it off with Lauren the next day (all this took place in TOW the Dollhouse) and went to tell Kate that he had dumped Lauren and then Kate gave him the cold shoulder. He didn't understand why Kate didn't want to be with him but she said that they should not make a big deal out of it and that she was caught up in the moment or something like that. So, how is that not jumping into the sack with Kate?

abrahammyFeb 7, 2002, 11:46 AM ET↩ p r i y a

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

Joey, obviously

of

Yes.

much for.

Yep. It makes no sense to argue otherwise - it's like saying Monica isn't a neat freak.

lot

than

with

Because Joey slept with Kate *before* he dumped Lauren.

He most certainly did. One moment they were coworkers having a simple rehearsal, and the next minute, they were in bed. Lauren, his girlfriend, had no idea what was going on. He broke up with her later. That was absolutely, positively cheating. No question about it.

I have not really been following this thread particularly closely because I seemed to be seeing a lot of revisionist history about what a playboy cad Ross has always been and what a prince Joey has always been. (Three-timing? Over coffee? Are you serious?) It may just be me, but I always got the general sense, something in the Friends atmosphere, which suggested that however geeky Ross was, he generally was a more serious date than Joey, and that Joey had a way of playing around. In the case of Kate and Lauren in particular, I think it's pretty clear cut. He started sleeping with Lauren, even though he was very attracted to Kate. The very moment he had an opening with Kate, he bounced into bed with her - so quickly it was actually filmed as a surprise joke - and broke up with Lauren after he did that. Ross dated Julie, found out Rachel was hung up on him, sat down carefully, thought about what he really wanted, (clumsily, and got punished for it) and did not sleep with Rachel until the relationship with Julie was over. Now, he clearly had a more serious relationship with Julie than Joey did with Lauren, and you can certainly argue that it was shallow of him to do that to her. But he did not sleep with another woman while dating Julie. Joey did sleep with another woman while dating Lauren. (Please do not jump in and start talking about The Break here. That was a very complicated, sad situation which has been rehashed to death and does not indicate general preferred patterns of Ross' behavior, except possibly his insecurity.) The show has had nearly as many jokes about Joey cheating on his girlfriends as they have had about three divorces. Joey has cheated on past girlfriends. It's a given, like the fact that Ross was more favored than Monica when they were young. Any argument against it is really, really strained.

It is not, however, a good indicator that he would then cheat on Rachel because his feelings for her are much more well developed, and whether or not he would cheat on Rachel does not play a factor in whether or not I think he should be with her. I am satisfied that he would not. If they put this couple together, it would be plausible for them to have them be a stable, happy couple. On the other hand, it WOULD ALSO be plausible if they chose to have Joey to cheat on her. He's got much more of a history of that than Ross did in season three. This is up to the writers. They've got the framework to go either way.

DennisFeb 7, 2002, 12:13 PM ET↩ abrahammy

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:Jby88.17382$[email]...

favor

of

isn't

has

dump

I

(Three-timing?

and

Lauren,

actually

and

Now,

to

did

The

as

they

of

got

ITA.

Tennant StuartFeb 7, 2002, 8:28 PM ET↩ abrahammy

In article , "abrahammy" wrote:

This is true, although as you say it came as a surprise, and Joey did call Lauren the very next morning.

And yes, in a similar situation, Ross broke up with Bonnie *first*, and he was cruelly betrayed by Rachel for doing so.

But the accusation is not just that Joey has ever two-timed anyone, but that when he is with a woman, he has to be going out with more people than she is.

Kate did not call Marshall (her boyfriend & the play's director) in the morning, on the grounds that there was really no reason he should find out, then she informed Joey that what they did was not a big deal.

On this basis, instead of immediately calling it off with Lauren, Joey should have found himself a third woman to keep ahead, but he didn't.

Instead, he telephoned all the women whose feelings he had failed to consider, telling them that he'd recently learned what's it like to be on the receiving end, apologising, and begging their forgiveness.

Joey learnt a great deal from that night, and since then he has done another five years of (belated) growing up.

Tennant

DennisFeb 8, 2002, 9:49 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

One of those phone calls was to a lady that apparently Joey was seeing while
also seeing her daughter right???? He called this lady up and asked to speak
to her daughter and she wasn't there and he said that he had something to
tell her as well...
    Another thing i want to point out is that we are not concerned about
Kate's morals, so whether or not she called it off with her boyfriend is
indifferent...Joey called Lauren the next day and broke it off, we agree
there. *but*...it's still a couple hours too late and still considered as
cheating..
    I am not saying that Joey would cheat on Rachel if they ever got
together and I must admit that he has show signs that he has matured but
let's not go completely to the other side making Joey out to be the guy that
was great towards women nor make all the other guys on the show look like
crap so that we naturally assume Joey is no worse than them.

DennisFeb 6, 2002, 12:13 PM ET↩ p r i y a

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

Tennant

for a

the

there

be

"always")

numerous

feel

to

So

such

so

times he

He is

last

ok, point taken. I just do not understand why this is not considered cheating but Ross has been labeled as a threetimer...

Tennant StuartFeb 7, 2002, 1:34 PM ET↩ p r i y a

In article , [email] (p r i y a) wrote:

Ooh, that's a very good point, Priya. Thanks.

I'd quite forgotten that they weren't exclusive. That means that the one example people have of Joey two-timing was in fact no worse than Kristen Lang dating Joey & Ross at the same time. All above board.

Tennant

abrahammyFeb 7, 2002, 11:47 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Well, first of all, it's not. If it was all above board, and a completely open relationship, then Joey had no business freaking out so much about a kiss between Chandler and Kathy. I also think a person should not be sleeping with somebody unless they have an exclusive thing going at the time.

I don't know if you've missed the whole Lauren/Kate discussion here, but
we've got another example that is absolutely indisputable.  Tennant, I don't
have as much free time to spend on this kind of thing as you do, and I'm
just not as obsessive about it, but the show has, in its dialogue, made it
extremely clear repeatedly that Joey cheats on his girlfriends.  He has said
it, the other friends have said it, and jokes have been made about it.  We
have actively watched it twice.  Your argument as absolutely no merit at
all.  Zilch.  The thing you should be arguing, which *is* supportable, is
that Joey's method of treating his other girlfriends does not necessarily
indicate how he will treat Rachel.   That's what actually got you going on
this insane tangent, the idea that Joey didn't deserve Rachel because he was
incapable of being a stable boyfriend to the right girl.  He could well
treat Rachel much better.   You could also argue his marked emotional
growth.  But end this business about how he has never cheated.  It's like
saying Rachel doesn't really shop that much because we haven't actually
watched her do it that often.   It's nonsense.

Tennant StuartFeb 8, 2002, 8:33 AM ET↩ abrahammy

In article , "abrahammy" wrote:

It was all above board, and Joey did indeed have no business freaking out so much about a kiss between Chandler and Kathy. It was hypocritical of him, but in this show, it's supposed to be six friends against the world.

I don't defend that, it's just the "sit" of this sitcom.

I was objecting to the proposition that Joey *always* cheats on every girl that he dates. I did actually concede that Joey occasionally cheats, which is what you are saying, but that was roundly rejected. We are actually in agreement Claire, whilst with others I've already agreed to differ.

I quite agree, Claire, but the debate was not allowed to reach that level.

I will repeat Claire, since people keep claiming things I did NOT say, that my position is not that Joey has never cheated. It is that Joey has rarely cheated, maybe even occasionally cheated, but not constantly cheated.

Tennant

p r i y aFeb 8, 2002, 8:36 AM ET↩ abrahammy

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

Joey freaked about that Chandler was the other guy. He didn't seem too upset that there was another guy.

Chandler: Hey, look, what do you want me to say? Do you want me to say that I’ll stop seeing her?

Joey: Look, it’s not about her. Okay? But seeing you two together just reminds me of what you did. And I don’t want to live with some one who doesn’t know what it is to be a friend. So, I’ll see ya.

It was because Joey thought that, Chandler doing what he did meant that, he didn't think much of their friendship.

Well, it's hard to keep to the specific subject when people hold everything he's done in the past seven years against Joey. The silly thing is that, they're just looking for reasons why Joey wouldn't be able keep Rachel on past behaviour with women he cared little about.

Priya

abrahammyFeb 8, 2002, 8:55 AM ET↩ p r i y a

"p r i y a" wrote in message

Yes, I agree with that. Joey could be a faithful boyfriend to Rachel; I see signs that the character wants to become more stable and responsible. Of course, I am also seeing folks hold everything he's done in the past seven years against Ross. :-) Which, I guess, is a matter of quid pro quo? :-)

Grin. Folks are digging too deep. The writers will probably focus on the matter directly at hand, not stuff from years ago.

abrahammyFeb 8, 2002, 8:59 AM ET↩ p r i y a

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

told

going

completely

a

Gee, what an interesting time to bring this up! :-) Does this mean Joey is a hypocrite? Hey, would somebody go get Ross a furniture box? :-) I have been heavily struck by the parallels for several weeks now... except that Kathy did not mean nearly as much to Joey as Rachel does to Ross. Not by a mile.

The other may not really have been about *Kathy.* This really IS about *Rachel.*

DennisFeb 8, 2002, 9:34 AM ET↩ abrahammy

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:eRQ88.19602$[email]...

about

the

is

have

a

You raise a very interesting point here. This is going to open loads of doors for discussion now...

DennisFeb 8, 2002, 9:28 AM ET↩ abrahammy

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:tLI88.20137$[email]...

don't

said

was

Thanks so much for posting that Claire. For a minute there I thought that everyone was going to be fooled to believe that Joey is a virgin. Too bad you do not have a lot of time to post here cause I consider your posts superb.

DennisFeb 8, 2002, 9:24 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

This guy never ceases to amaze me...The worst thing about it is that I really like several of his posts but there are times when I sit here wondering if Tennant's watching some other friends show. He managed to *prove* that Joey has never ever two timed a woman and that he has always been a stand up guy when it comes to women...

DennisFeb 6, 2002, 12:08 PM ET↩ David Buehrle

"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:_0088.1123$[email]...

a

the

"always")

feel

So

such

he

is

IIRC,

There

on

If Tennant, and anyone else who agrees with him, consider Ross a threetimer, then the above is definitely cheating on Joey's part. I hear everyone talk about Ross's threetiming ep which I did not even consider as a twotiming one. If Joey could get off on a technicality, couldn't Ross? He was also trying to figure out which of the two women he wanted to be with and the third girl is not even considered as a date IMO. Yet, Some people tend to overemphasize all of Ross's faults and completely make Joey out to be the good guy. In any case, my point was that Joey could not actually cheat on women that often cause he rarely had a relationship that lasted long enough for him to cheat on someone.

Tennant StuartFeb 7, 2002, 1:32 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

It's reasonable to assume that the characters do normal things, like Ross visiting his son, but not unusual things. Should we assume that Chandler goes to a strip club every night, with all three girls for company? Does Rachel kiss Mr.Zelner each time she meets him? Did Monica date the sons of all her boyfriends? Does Phoebe always find severed thumbs in canned drinks? Is Ross working his way through every Xerox girl in New York?

You can't assume that Joey is constantly doing something which we have only seen him do once, just because of a boast in the 6th ever episode.

Tennant

SofyaFeb 7, 2002, 10:31 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

there

I am so shocked. You seem to know everything but you also interpret or are passing things by that is evidence. Do you not hear how the other 5 always comment on his behavior and how Joey always talks about chicks???

Sofya

Tennant StuartFeb 8, 2002, 8:30 AM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

I'm just going by what we actually see him do, not gossip.

Tennant

DennisFeb 8, 2002, 10:41 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

So, what all the other 5 say about Joey is gossip and not fact? I never saw Joey deny anything the others have said about him in front of him...

DennisFeb 8, 2002, 9:21 AM ET↩ Sofya

"Sofya" wrote in message news:a3vgnk$665$[email]...

to

would

different

faithful....BUT

Ross

are

always

Sofya, it is clear that Tennant is watching a different show than the rest of us are. Maybe its in some sort of a parallel universe where Joey is still a virgin or something..

DennisFeb 8, 2002, 9:18 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

there

Can someone please advise Tennant that we have seen Joey do it *twice*. Also, can someone please tell him that there have been numerous discussions abot Joey's love life but no particualr mention of all the ridiculous examples he posted regarding Monica, Rachel, Ross etc...I can't understand why Tennant feels the need to seem to think he is always right. He posts some great stuff here but there are times at which I have never seen a person twist things so much as he does.

Andrï¿½ KnocheFeb 8, 2002, 11:54 AM ET↩ Dennis

"Dennis" wrote in message news:[email]...

discussions

now c'mon, Joey waited till he was 25 until he slept with a woman for the first time. Just like he advised his sisters to do. :D Dennis, just let it go, if you keep getting upset about Tennants posts (though I am on your side like 99% of the time), you'll have a heart attack before the end of the year. Just leave him with the idea, that he's one of the three people in here who actually understands what is going on in Friends...

Andre

SofyaFeb 9, 2002, 1:18 AM ET↩ Andrï¿½ Knoche

"Andrï¿½ Knoche" wrote in message news:[email]...

understand

attack

Please tell me that was sarcasm. Joey had sex during high school while Joey and Ross were reading(oohh fun! lol).

Sofya

abrahammyFeb 9, 2002, 8:47 AM ET↩ Sofya

"Sofya" wrote in message news:a42f0i$k8m$[email]...

*twice*.

posts

the

of

Joey

Heavy, heavy sarcasm.

Andrï¿½ KnocheFeb 9, 2002, 11:30 AM ET↩ Sofya

"Sofya" wrote in message news:a42f0i$k8m$[email]...

*twice*.

posts

the

of

Joey

of course it was sarcasm ;-) but you gotta explain something to me: how did Joey manage to have sex, while he was also reading books with Ross? ;-)

Andre

SofyaFeb 9, 2002, 12:05 PM ET↩ Andrï¿½ Knoche

"Andrï¿½ Knoche" wrote in message news:[email]...

ridiculous

a

one

lol, i meant Chandler and Ross. :)

Sofya

abrahammyJan 25, 2002, 8:53 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message >

The show has made various comments from time to time regarding Joey's behavior with women. I don't have a database and hours to search it either, but I recall that during the pleading of "The Morning After" one of the things Ross said was "I'm not a cheater! I'm not Joey!" That line establishes a general point of reference; it is casually accepted by the Friends that Joey cheats on his girlfriends. This is the same Joey who worked with Monica to break up a couple so they could go out with the broken ends. (While not cheating, it is unethical dating behavior.) The Kathy incident was very casually introduced; he just happened to mention that he was keeping Kathy waiting because he was out with another girl and he wanted Chandler to keep Kathy occupied. That is not the action of a man who is cheating on a girlfriend just this once. There is another scene with Phoebe, and I'm sorry, I don't remember the episode and this just isn't important enough for me to spend hours researching - he and Phoebe made a light joke about how to cover up when they are cheating.

None of this is to say that Joey would cheat on Rachel. She's a whole new ballgame and he's seen what she does when she feels she's been two-timed. By virtue of their very long friendship, she's also much more important to him, infatuation or no infatuation. But the idea of Virtuous Joey The Chivalrous Boyfriend doesn't really have a lot of support in the show's history, and it's got some demerits. His dating life, with the exception of a very few special women, has had the flavor of a cad. If he were to be with Rachel, it might be different. He is getting older and he actually cares about her. There are arguments I might make against Rachel and Joey, but Joey's well-established wayward eye isn't really a big factor here.

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:14 PM ET↩ abrahammy

In article , "abrahammy" wrote:

Maybe, but we've only seen him cheat once. We've also seen Phoebe cheat, and she could well be a bigamist. Ross is the only one to cheat upon a fellow member of the group, and the only three-timer in the group. You yourself argued that Rachel cheated when she had sex with Barry knowing that he was in a relationship with Mindy, and I agree with you.

Absolutely, Claire. I was merely defending Joey against the accusation that he cheats on every single woman he dates, just because of a boast he made when Chandler was mixed up with a glamorous serial adulteress.

Tennant

DennisFeb 1, 2002, 9:49 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Threetimer??? So, falling asleep on a train and ending up in Montreal and having a cup of coffee with someone is considered a relationship? Oh come on.That's taking it too far. And if Joey was only seen once as a two timer (I assume you mean the Kathy-Casey (sp?) relationship), what about when he was with Kate and the other girl? Besides, Joey's relationships do not last long enough for him to actually have time to cheat with someone.

JamesS1889Feb 1, 2002, 9:30 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

You are exaggerating again, Tennant, unless you are talking about someone else besides me here. I never said "every single woman he dates". I said "often".

Tennant StuartFeb 2, 2002, 9:52 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

What you said was "Joey constantly two-times the women he goes out with."

Tennant

JamesS1889Feb 4, 2002, 12:38 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

Tennant StuartFeb 7, 2002, 1:28 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

In article , [email] (JamesS1889) wrote:

So I wasn't exaggerating? :)

Tennant

JamesS1889Feb 9, 2002, 8:03 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

p r i y aJan 23, 2002, 4:07 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

[email] (JamesS1889) wrote in message news:...

It may not make that big a difference as to how people view Joey. Because, as it is, he dates women without attaching anything but physical feelings to them. Nor has he been shown offering them anything more than the 'Joey Love'. So, the girls he dates must be really stupid to go out with expecting to get anything more than sex. Rachel behaves like a total bitch and still we all love her. I thought "TOW No one gets ready" was horrible but its a favourite with many people. A character can do all the dirty deeds but if its portrayed as well as JA and MLB do, they can get away with it. Perhaps thats Joey's secret.

With Kathy, he never showed any real feelings towards her. Which is why cheating on her was probably easy for him. He clearly states that its not about the girl that he's upset about but its about Chandler going behind his back. Basically, he wouldn't have thrown a fit if Chandler had come clean about Kathy early on. If, I remember correctly, this is what Ross said to Chandler! We've seen how Joey was with Kate or Janine for that matter. I don't think he would two time someone he really cared about.

In 113, he's upset about his father cheating on his mother. (Sorry about quoting this scene for the umpteenth time but Tennant hasn't read those treads yet! :)

Tennant StuartJan 24, 2002, 12:55 PM ET↩ p r i y a

In article , [email] (p r i y a) wrote:

What a superb quote, I'd forgotten that! Ta muchly, Priya. :)

Let me guess (but no S8 spoilers please) the R+R fans are saying that Joey would cheat on Rachel, whereas Ross *never* would...

Tennant

Marita BakkenJan 25, 2002, 2:20 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Tennant Stuart wrote in message news:...

You hit the nail on the head, Tennant. :)

p r i y aJan 26, 2002, 11:15 AM ET↩ Marita Bakken

[email] (Marita Bakken) wrote in message news:...

Yep, you certainly did! :)

Priya

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:12 PM ET↩ Marita Bakken

In article , [email] (Marita Bakken) wrote:

Hey-hey, I guessed right! Thanks, Marita!

Tennant

p r i y aJan 23, 2002, 3:40 PM ET↩ JamesS1889

[email] (JamesS1889) wrote in message news:...

Why not? If Chandler said it would have been wisecrack but if Joey says it, then he's damned for it?

Priya

JamesS1889Jan 24, 2002, 2:04 AM ET↩ p r i y a

In article , [email] (p r i y a) writes:

some

It didn't sound like a wisecrack coming from Joey. I would have to have heard Chandler say it to say for sure. Not everything he said in season 1 was a wisecrack. Furthermore, you may have missed it, but in another post I effectively damned all three of the guys for their attitudes in that episode, so there is no favoritism here. --- James Squire - http://members.aol.com/jamess1889

CandiGrrlJan 9, 2002, 5:28 AM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a1fk89$8a6$[email]...

in

preferred

bit

the

because

Hey, if I had my way none of them would ever have hooked up, not even C&M or R&R. Tennant's just hot for Ross and Phoebe ;)

Tennant StuartJan 8, 2002, 7:39 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

In article , [email] (CandiGrrl) wrote:

Yep!

Hehe. Ross should do as Joey says more often, he'd be much happier.

Tennant

SofyaJan 9, 2002, 12:04 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

I disagree. ex:TOW the Videotape: he taught Ross how to get sex easily. He's teaching Ross how to be a player like him and forget about falling in love. I hope Ross STOPS listening to Joey a.k.a. the Player.

Sofya

CandiGrrlJan 9, 2002, 2:50 PM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a1htal$rhp$[email]...

Have you seen 'The Player'? Great movie.

SofyaJan 9, 2002, 6:19 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

"CandiGrrl" wrote in message news:a1i6us$2jf$[email]...

in

No I haven't. Your point? lol :)

Don't get me wrong, i'm not a playerhater but I don't want Ross to be a playboy like Joey and Joey has on many occasions given Ross advice that is very "playful"(lol, you know what I mean).

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 10, 2002, 8:37 AM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Such as go home to make up with Rachel, instead of screwing Chloe?

Tennant

Tennant StuartJan 10, 2002, 8:35 AM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

He *tried* to teach Ross, who was too stupid to learn the lesson.

Sofya, try looking at just a *few* more examples...

Ross wouldn't need to be a player if he'd listened to Joey. Instead he would be married to Rachel with kids, for about four years by now.

Tennant

SofyaJan 10, 2002, 2:18 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Whoa, whoa, whoa...before putting such crazy ideas on the table you better back them up with evidence.

I said joey gave playboy advice on many occasions, i didn't say always. Like so many have mentioned, we have had "a few" glimpses of Joey having a "brain" in past episodes but Joey is a playboy at heart and it affects advice he gives. Of course he's "lovable," how else could he get so many women?

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 11, 2002, 8:13 AM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Instead of talking to Joey & Chandler at the Philly, Ross went off with Chloe instead, as we found out in the next episode...

CHANDLER: Oh my God! Oh my God!

  JOEY: Yeah. We figured when we couldn't find you, you'd
        gone home to make up with Rachel. Which is probably
        what you shoulda done. Huh?

ROSS: You think?! God, I, ah, I'm in hell.

There have been hugely more than "a few", and they were more than just glimpses. Have you actually *watched* the last 8ï¿½ seasons of the show, or do you just have a selective memory? (Sorry if that sounds harsh).

Tennant

SofyaJan 11, 2002, 2:18 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

better

Yes i have watched the last 8 1/2 seasons. I see you are one of the big Joey fans. If you think that when Joey is being dumb that it is actually cleverness then you got yourself a problem. What do you call clever? what do you call dumb?

For me, Joey is dumb. And only a couple of times has he proven otherwise.

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 12, 2002, 12:38 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

People who are not dumb can act dumb.

People who are dumb always act dumb.

So you have already proven that Joey is not dumb.

I could list *dozens* of occasions on which Joey has been quite clever (I'm not claiming that he's brilliant) but quite frankly Sofya, there is no point in my doing so, since you have such a closed mind. Sorry.

Tennant

SofyaJan 13, 2002, 12:57 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

actually

what

otherwise.

I am not close-minded. I was open-minded enough to think about the possiblility that Joey "might" not be dumb. I looked at it and now i'm on a mission; since you said "dozens," this is what i'm going to do. Every episode that I watch from now on(if i'm not lazy at that time): i will list "clever" things Joey has done and "dumb things." And then add it up after a certain time period.

But first of all what do you call clever? Some of the advice he gives is not clever its just not dumb but good advice(remember...i said some...the rest is "playboy").

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 14, 2002, 8:36 AM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Okay. :)

Well, please watch *all* the episodes, don't be lazy when he's clever and alert when he's dumb, then remember that a person who is sometimes dumb and sometimes clever is not a dumb person acting clever, he's a clever person acting dumb.

And please be sure not to misinterpret cleverness you don't understand as stupidity, (such as the leather pants or the Dr.Suess book, mentioned elsewhere in this thread). I had to have the book explained to me.

I've said many times that he's no genius, I'm just reacting to people who say that he's dumb, some say that he is so dumb that it's a wonder he can walk upright, or even breathe.

Please don't confuse cleverness with education - Joey wasted his time at high school by having lots of sex with pretty girls instead, and of course Phoebe spent her high school years in a cardboard box. Meanwhile, Ross was given every opportunity to learn, that I suspect was denied to Monica.

Please don't just go by the advice he gives out, but how he behaves, how he reacts, how he understands. And don't be fooled by him taking his time, that's better than rushing into saying or doing the wrong thing.

And for any episode where he was neither dumb nor clever, make a note of that too, and then we'll know which of the 182 episodes you've covered.

Tennant

DennisJan 14, 2002, 9:59 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

As soon as you mentioned it, I remembered that in the last ep of Series 2 when Chandler was talking to his "cyberchick" on the internet, Joey suggested that a good way to find out of the person he was talking to was a female or a male, would be to ask him/her how long they will live. Joey explained that it's a known fact that women live longer, therefore Chandler would know if his "cyberchick" was a female or not. Then Chandler turned to him and said :"How do you not fall down more?" lol

SofyaJan 14, 2002, 1:10 PM ET↩ Dennis

"Dennis" wrote in message news:[email]...

is

not

"dumb

who

can

a

Chandler

to

LOL, I loved Chandler in the earlier seasons!! I miss him...

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 14, 2002, 1:19 PM ET↩ Dennis

In article , "Dennis" wrote:

Yep, Joey has got Chandler completely fooled.

Tennant

SofyaJan 15, 2002, 12:06 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

I guess you don't understand American "dumbness" or "silliness" because Joey was being dumb here.

Sofya

DennisJan 15, 2002, 10:46 AM ET↩ Sofya

"Sofya" wrote in message news:a20ddl$emh$[email]...

Series

live.

therefore

Joey

I totally agree. It appears Tennant wants to always think he is right. Apparently everyone goes and locks themselves in an entertainment unit TWICE. Joey is very very smart...sure...

Tennant StuartJan 15, 2002, 7:59 PM ET↩ Dennis

In article , "Dennis" wrote:

That is most impolite & very unfair of you, Dennis. :(

I have always made a point of thanking people who set me straight, for I dislike being incorrect.

I never said that Joey is very very smart. I've constantly repeated that I'm objecting to people who say he is very dumb, and I've often said he is no genius. My position is that dumb people are dumb all of the time, so people who are sometimes dumb & sometimes clever are not dumb.

Heaven help you Dennis, if you should ever repeat a mistake.

Tennant

DennisJan 16, 2002, 1:38 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

I am in no way trying to be impolite and definitely not unfair Tennant. I just call things like I see them and, to me, it seems like if someone states their opinion, and you disagree, you appear to present your reply as fact, rather than merely you opinion. I read so many of your posts here and many times I like the things you post and others i don't but there are times when I love disagreeing with you rather than just sitting here noding my head agreeing with every single word you post. If you think my criticism was not proper, I apologize. It is just that the impression I get from several of your posts, is that you like presenting your opinion as if it is fact.

As i recall, you didn't thank me for corercting your 8 1/2 season issue. Instead, you counterattacked by telling me that I didn't type 7 and 1/2 the way you wanted me to which had nothing to do with your mistake. I replied to that post but you may have not seen it. I replied by telling you that you made a mistake and didn't like me correcting you so you tried to put me down with that 1/2 remark.

Even a broken clock shows the right time twice a day. I agree with you, though, that Joey is not very dumb. I jus tthink that you are over emphasizing his smart moments and underestimating his dumb ones (which outnumber the former by a lot).

 lol...

There are mistakes and then there are MISTAKES. Locking yourself in an entertainment Unit) among numerous other "dumb" moments Joey has had, is not a casual everyday mistake.

SofyaJan 16, 2002, 3:18 PM ET↩ Dennis

"Dennis" wrote in message news:[email]...

I"m not sure...but i think Tennant was talking about himself making a mistake...or am i wrong?

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 16, 2002, 7:25 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Nope, you're right, Sofya.

While thinking about the latest episode being 812, I said to you that there had been 8ï¿½ seasons, which should have been 7ï¿½. You didn't worry about it, Dennis corrected me, I admitted my mistake, David passed an interesting comment, I replied to him, and Dennis is whinging about it.

Tennant

Seran PerryJan 17, 2002, 5:37 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Hey hey hey! Whinging is fun!

Tennant StuartJan 17, 2002, 6:38 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:

It is, when someone as nice as you is doing it, sweetie.

Tennant

Seran PerryJan 18, 2002, 5:47 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Well Dennis doesn't seem that bad to me

DennisJan 17, 2002, 9:37 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

???????????????? No, Sir Tennant. I corrected you and you didn't like that, so you attacked me by telling me that i didn't type 1/2 correctly.

Tennant StuartJan 17, 2002, 6:40 PM ET↩ Dennis

In article , "Dennis" wrote:

Sigh. I have had quite enough of you distorting the truth, Dennis.

This is the whole of my post to you, this thread, January 13th at 12:38...

*ï¿½In article , "Dennis" *ï¿½ wrote:

*ï¿½> where do you get 81/2 seasons from????? This is the 8th season, so in *ï¿½> reality what you should have said was 7 1/2.....

*ï¿½My mistake. Software engineers start counting at zero. ;)

*ï¿½Tennant Stuart

I did not attack you, in fact I said nothing to you about typing.

What you refer to was my correspondence with kindly David Buehrle, into which you leapt, and then started taking great offence.

You have just been killfiled, so goodbye to you Dennis.

Tennant

DennisJan 18, 2002, 9:36 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

This is what you replied to me that day...Read and don't ever tell me that i am not telling the truth:

Actually, it was just my mistake, I should have said 7ï¿½ seasons.

But at at least I can *say* 7ï¿½, instead of having to make do with 7 1/2. ;)

Tennant

You see???? Read that last part again and remmeber what you typed.

DennisJan 18, 2002, 9:39 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

So I am killfiled for no reason other than the fact that i proved to you that I did not distort the truth.

Seran PerryJan 18, 2002, 10:52 AM ET↩ Dennis

<~~~Looks out of her hole to see a huge argument errupt in front of her. After listening for a while, she's had enough.

Oh for the love of Feck...

*Smacks Tennant upside the head* *Smacks Dennis upside the head*

Oh my god! You are arguing over one little post! What's the matter with you two? Have you gone back to nursery or something? Tennant, someone standing up for what they said is not a viable reason to killfile that person! Just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you have to ignore everything he says from now on! You've both admitted your mistake, now deal with it! Dennis! Tennant did not attack you! He was making a small joke! A pathetic one albeit but it was a joke! Jesus Christ... Now grow up the two of you before I smack your heads together! Someone get me a cup of tea, all that shouting has killed my throat. *Glares evilly at Dennis and Tennant*

DennisJan 18, 2002, 11:04 AM ET↩ Seran Perry

"Seran Perry" wrote in message news:[email]...

that

worry

an

it.

correctly.

12:38...

in

After

you

one

before I

*Glares

everyone

I am not here ot get into fights with people. All i did was say that Tennant had made a mistake and then he took it all wrong and thought that the best way to deal with it is to take cheap shots at me. Other than that, I post normal posts here regarding issues in the channel and nothing else. I don't see what I did wrong apart from daring to disagree with someone. And I even apologized (although after seeing how he reacted, i shouldn't have) to him cause he thought i was impolite . He said that i distorted the truth and i didn't. He was just prefers remembering what he wants to. This is my last post regarding this particular issue cause i don't think i should sit and waste my time wih such a stupid thing as this. I will continue to post my opinios though on other, even if certain people like it or not. I apologize to the rest of the group for having to sit and read all these posts between Tennant and myself. I got carried away and let that guy take shots at me and felt that i had to reply. I won't from now on.

TriggerJan 22, 2002, 6:19 PM ET↩ Dennis

Dennis wrote in message news:[email]...

about

like

so

you

to

mean

pathetic

Tennant

don't

even

it

all

guy

Nice appoligy there my man! But are you blaming this whole arguement on Tennant? WOW, are you shallow. Hey, It takes two people to argue.

DennisJan 23, 2002, 12:04 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:msm38.10229$[email]...

Sofya

passed

her.

with

your

best

post

him

i

I said that I apologize and that I got carried away. Does that seem like I am saying it's all his fault? Please try to be less aggressive with your statements. I misunderstood something he said and I apologized for that and for making an issue of it. You call me shallow and I also see that you are taking shots at others too. Just state your opinion on all the issues here in the NG and drop all the rude comments about others here. We are all here to discuss our fav show, not fight with eachother. You say that it takes two to argue but I don't see you blaming anyone but me and calling me shallow whereas the other person is something like a saint to you apparently. It is your right to like or dislike anyone you want but at least respect the others. I don't see who made you God in deciding who is shallow and who is not. If anything, I think that I did the right thing in apologizing and yet you see me as shallow and someone who blames everyone but myself. Whatever....

SofyaJan 23, 2002, 5:19 PM ET↩ Dennis

"Dennis" wrote in message news:[email]...

didn't

Dennis.

season,

Buehrle,

to

reason

and

think

like

read

that

and

you can say that again...

Trigger made me cry... (not!)

Sofya

about others here. We are all here

least

shallow

CandiGrrlJan 23, 2002, 8:13 PM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a2nct2$ebo$[email]...

whinging

at

typing.

of

doesn't

admitted

you

throat.

when

the

I

to

on

I

are

here

Okay, like Seran said (but in a more compressed version), can we stop this? I feel like I just walked onto the set of a Scorsese movie!!! Can't we all just get along??

Amy and DaveJan 18, 2002, 12:42 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

lol. thanks. I needed a good laugh.

"Seran Perry" wrote in message news:[email]...

that

worry

an

it.

correctly.

12:38...

in

After

you

one

before I

*Glares

everyone

Tennant StuartJan 18, 2002, 1:29 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:

The thing is, Seran, that Dennis is *lying* to you.

He is taking something I said to David Buehrle as a reply to him (Dennis) which it was not and making a stink about it, while totally ignoring the reply I made directly to Dennis in which I was most pleasant to him.

Tennant

Seran PerryJan 18, 2002, 5:57 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Do not whine to me about this!

*Reads Dennis's posts as well* I don't want to hear it! I refuse to get sucked in! You're behaving like brats! You're both saying "Oh the other started it" Now behave like mature responsible adults and just please, for the love of Feck, just stop! Please! for the sanity of all!

<~~~Goes back to her hole, and refuses to come out again until this thing is settled, well after she replies to the other posts.

Tennant StuartJan 19, 2002, 6:50 AM ET↩ Seran Perry

In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:

Well, I've already killfiled the person concerned, so if you don't continue to reply, the matter will be dropped. Okay, sweetie?

Tennant

SofyaJan 18, 2002, 7:30 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Sorry to interrupt, but i just wanted to say that I knew that Tennant was replying to David B. and I was confused when Dennis jumped in...so now i'm even more confused.

Sofya

ScorpioJan 18, 2002, 10:18 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Tennant Stuart wrote in message news:...

On the 13th of this month, this is what you wrote to Dennis.

Actually, it was just my mistake, I should have said 7ï¿½ seasons.

But at at least I can *say* 7ï¿½, instead of having to make do with 7 1/2. ;)

Tennant

Tennant StuartJan 18, 2002, 1:33 PM ET↩ Scorpio

In article , [email] (Scorpio) wrote:

That is *not* true.

I did *not* say that to Dennis.

You have deleted the part of the message concerning whom I was talking to.

I was replying to *** David Buehrle *** when I said that, not to Dennis.

In my reply to Dennis I was nothing but pleasant to him. He ignored it.

Tennant Stuart

DennisJan 18, 2002, 3:50 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

correctly.

12:38...

;)

I said I wasn't going to talk about this but I need to add one last thing. It was my impression that the 7 1/2 comment was a shot at me not being able to type 1/2 the way you do. What you are saying now is that you were talking about the way *** David Buehrle *** typed it (which was exactly like I did). I thought you were referring to me and that's why I responded accordingly. Since you say that you did write it but not towards me I must apologize for not understanding that you were saying " But at at least I can *say* 7ï¿½, instead of having to make do with 7 1/2. ;)" to someone else. I hope this puts an end to this whole issue.

TriggerJan 22, 2002, 6:21 PM ET↩ Dennis

Dennis wrote in message news:[email]...

didn't

like

so

in

1/2.

to.

able

can

Dude, you are pathetic!!!

DennisJan 23, 2002, 12:07 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:oum38.10231$[email]...

Sofya

Dennis.

it.

thing.

responded

must

I

Whatever...

SofyaJan 23, 2002, 5:13 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:oum38.10231$[email]...

Sofya

Dennis.

it.

thing.

responded

must

I

Tennant, i think someone likes you *wink, wink* :)

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 24, 2002, 12:53 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

She's actually very sweet. :)

Tennant

TriggerJan 24, 2002, 9:27 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Tennant Stuart wrote in message news:[email]...

Thanks Tennant! You know, I think that you are the only person here who has ever stuck up for me! But it isn't as though I need it that much. LOL I do pretty well holding my own. :o)

SofyaJan 24, 2002, 10:04 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:uo348.57712$[email]...

has

do

Lets see how much you like Tennant if he starts talking bad about Rachel.

Sofya

Seran PerryJan 25, 2002, 7:49 AM ET↩ Sofya

Oh! bitch fight!

CandiGrrlJan 28, 2002, 2:50 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

Seran Perry wrote in message news:[email]...

who

I

Great - because that will be something new and unusual for us!

Seran PerryJan 28, 2002, 3:07 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

Well it just means another one for us to break up. How long should we let this one continue for?

SofyaJan 28, 2002, 5:55 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

"Seran Perry" wrote in message news:[email]...

LOL

Rachel.

this

Don't worry its over. I will not reply anymore.

Sofya

everyone

Seran PerryJan 28, 2002, 6:07 PM ET↩ Sofya

It is?
<~~~THUD!

Jez: Er... she's fainted...

CandiGrrlJan 28, 2002, 8:36 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

Seran Perry wrote in message news:[email]...

here

much.

let

I didn't know you could faint while your alter-ego stays fully conscious! What happens if one siamese twin faints?

Seran PerryJan 29, 2002, 11:16 AM ET↩ CandiGrrl

they have minds of their own. If my mind isn't working they can still use theirs. mind you, they all came and hit the floor with me :)

the other has to lay in the recovery position till it wakes up :)

CandiGrrlJan 29, 2002, 1:11 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

Seran Perry wrote in message news:[email]...

person

about

we

Oh... alrighty :)

Oh... that really sucks for it. How do they date people? And, you know, what happens if they want to sleep with someone? And what happens if they argue with each other? I'm going to stop now.

Seran PerryJan 29, 2002, 2:39 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

Oh! There's that documentary about those American siamese twins. They have boyfriends and they sleep with them. er... I think one of them just shuts off or something. It's a bit weird...

CandiGrrlJan 29, 2002, 3:02 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

Seran Perry wrote in message news:[email]...

that

should

conscious!

use

what

argue

off

I read somewhere about a set of Siamese twins who fell out with each other and didn't speak to each other ever again, that's for about 20 years or something. That can't be true can it?

Seran PerryJan 29, 2002, 3:11 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

It would be a wee bit difficult for a start...

CandiGrrlJan 29, 2002, 3:22 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

Seran Perry wrote in message news:[email]...

still

know,

have

shuts

other

Yes, and what happens if one twin dies? Does the other one? Or does it just have to walk around attached to a corpse?

Seran PerryJan 29, 2002, 3:32 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

Rey asked me that too! Maybe the detatch it or something...

abrahammyJan 29, 2002, 5:55 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

"Seran Perry" wrote in message news:[email]...

they

They

or

just

This rather ghoulish question intrigued me, so I checked a few websites. It seems that when one Siamese twin dies, the other usually does as well soon after. That is what happened to the original two from Asia.

CandiGrrlJan 29, 2002, 6:01 PM ET↩ abrahammy

abrahammy wrote in message news:HLF58.5005$[email]...

:)

just

It

Thanks, Claire! It was kind of ghoulish, wasn't it? I should learn to be normal :)

SofyaJan 29, 2002, 8:11 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

"CandiGrrl" wrote in message news:a379jp$ce8$[email]...

fully

can

up

you

each

years

it

soon

I think its great to be curious about wierd stuff. I'm a very curious person. :)

Sofya

CandiGrrlJan 30, 2002, 3:17 PM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a37h5i$rr5$[email]...

websites.

Hehe, glad you think so... once I went through this phase of being absolutely dying to hypnotise a chicken. Seriously. I read somewhere that if you put their beak on the floor and draw a chalk line from their beak going away into the distance they just stay there with their head on the ground forever and ever, and I so wanted to do that. The man over the road had chickens and I had all these plans of how I was going to sneak into his garden one night and hypnotise all the chickens. I was about nine...

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:20 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

In article , "CandiGrrl" wrote:

And?

Tennant

David BuehrleJan 31, 2002, 10:03 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

"CandiGrrl" wrote in message news:a39kdd$p41$[email]...

does

well

be

if

going

Why does CandiGrrl cross the road? To get to the chickens.

Sorry, the monkey came in here and told me I had to say it. He doesn't even belong to me. Who owns this little guy? Go home already.

CandiGrrlJan 31, 2002, 10:19 PM ET↩ David Buehrle

David Buehrle wrote in message news:vAn68.346113$[email]...

to

that

ground

even

Don't you just hate it when that happens?

David BuehrleJan 31, 2002, 11:41 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

"CandiGrrl" wrote in message news:a3d1fn$bcn$[email]...

Or

curious

had

his

Yeah, a real bummer.

DB

My brother tells me, "Sometimes good things happen to bad people. But you've really lived a charmed life haven't you?"

SofyaJan 29, 2002, 8:10 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl

"CandiGrrl" wrote in message news:a370ao$gla$[email]...

just

Doesn't it depend where they are attached because if one dies than the other twin can be affected. I mean there could be a cut off of oxygen to organs in the living twin. Like if they are attached at the hip, maybe a liver could be affected or the lungs.

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:19 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:

Okay, I've been staying out of this, but I just *gotta* ask...

..where were they joined?

Tennant

Seran PerryFeb 1, 2002, 11:52 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

The sides of their foreheads

Tennant StuartFeb 2, 2002, 1:15 AM ET↩ Seran Perry

In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:

Oh, their temples.

Even so, they're both gonna be right in there, aren't they?

Tennant

Seran PerryFeb 2, 2002, 5:43 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

right in where?

Tennant StuartFeb 2, 2002, 9:55 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:

When one sister is having sex, the other one isn't gonna be sitting on the end of the bed reading a good book, is she?

Tennant

Seran PerryFeb 3, 2002, 10:56 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Have you not seen them? She prettty much just shuts off and ignores it.

Tennant StuartFeb 4, 2002, 1:24 AM ET↩ Seran Perry

In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:

That's some well fine ignoring she does!

Isn't the guy like the meat in a sandwich?

Tennant

Seran PerryFeb 4, 2002, 1:00 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

no... One sister lies next to the other face down, while the other is face up, I assume. They don't stand face to face when they stand up, They're both slightly to the side.

Tennant StuartFeb 7, 2002, 1:30 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:

You mean they are like two people who are walking past each other, but slightly collide?

Tennant

Seran PerryFeb 8, 2002, 9:58 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

<~~~tries to remember the program I don't think they would even collide, unless they both bent their heads to the side.

Tennant StuartFeb 8, 2002, 8:34 AM ET↩ Seran Perry

In article , [email] (Seran Perry) wrote:

Yeah okay, I know what you mean now. Thanks.

Tennant

Seran PerryFeb 8, 2002, 12:50 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

no problem

TriggerJan 26, 2002, 4:57 PM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a2qi7b$l60$[email]...

I

We have actually discused this topic and it is not a problem for us. Because we talk about subjects on this newsgroup like adults. Now if you can learn to have a rational conversation about this and other subjects then I would be more than willing to discuse it with you. But you don't have try and prove that you are right. This is not why I talk on this ng.

SofyaJan 26, 2002, 6:28 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:2DF48.23426$[email]...

who

Rachel.

then

try

You talk no better than me. A rational converation? I see...because I don't agree with you, i'm not rational?

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:05 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

What, you mean apart from saying that Rachel has a strong jawline and an Adam's apple, so she should always wear her hair down? Or that she can be a bitch & a liar, and mistreats her friends, especially Ross?

Sarah & I have discussed these & other criticisms of Rachel in a most civilised manner, for that's what she means when she says that people can have differing opinions yet still be nice to each other.

Tennant

SofyaFeb 1, 2002, 12:45 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Rachel.

Depends who and depends how strong the opinion...

Tennant StuartFeb 1, 2002, 8:41 AM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Awww... don't worry, you just have to get to know her better.

Tennant

TriggerFeb 2, 2002, 6:42 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Tennant Stuart wrote in message news:[email]...

Rachel.

Thanks Tennant!! Ya know, I have do have very strong opinions and do like to state them (quite often!!) but so does everyone else here. There are just some people who have stated theirs in such a rude manner that I really don't care for theirs (even though I respect them). Maybe I shouldn't respect their opinions if they won't accept mine. Don't you have to earn respect?

David BuehrleFeb 2, 2002, 7:03 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:OP_68.19174$[email]...

really

Indeed one must earn respect, but one should expect common courtesy without question.

Frankly, I don't respect everyone who contributes here. But that doesn't mean they don't ever have good points. What's that expression? Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.

Fortunately for me it's not a widespread problem, and furthermore, I recognize that even a good person can make a mistake now and then. So, that's what gets me through my daily reading.

Boy, that just cost me another two cents, didn't it.

Tennant StuartFeb 2, 2002, 10:01 PM ET↩ Trigger

In article , "Trigger" wrote:

You're welcome, Sarah.

Yep.

Tennant

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:08 PM ET↩ Trigger

In article , "Trigger" wrote:

Of course you do Sarah. :)

Tennant

DennisJan 18, 2002, 4:01 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

correctly.

12:38...

;)

I was not *lying*. Please stop using such heavy words about me. I thought that you were telling someone that I couldn't type correctly. That is called a misunderstanding not *lying*. Words like *lying* and *not true* have nothing to do with it. Again, I apologize for the *misunderstanding* so please stay away from calling me a liar.

Tennant StuartJan 16, 2002, 7:21 PM ET↩ Dennis

In article , "Dennis" wrote:

Well, excuse me for breathing. I may not pepper my posts with ISTMs and IMHOs, but I do say those phrases, and the rest of the time it should be obvious when the subject is a matter of opinion or not.

That isn't true.

If you care to check my post of January 13th at 12:38 in this thread, you will see that I replied to you, readily admitting that it was my mistake.

David Buehrle also wrote in, kindly commenting that it reminded him of all the hoopla about whether 2000 or 2001 is the first year of the new millennium. I also replied to him, repeating that I had made a mistake, and making a small joke that you took great exception to, whilst also criticising David Buehrle for being irrelevant, which IMHO he wasn't.

At that point I decided it was best not get involved further.

Well - in my humble opinion - not only do any dumb moments not outnumber the smart moments, but even if they did, it wouldn't matter. Your stopped clock analogy - in my humble opinion - is fallacious & irrelevant.

It must be wonderful to be as perfect as you, Dennis.

I make stupid mistakes all the time, some of them twice.

Tennant

DennisJan 17, 2002, 9:43 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

that

Maybe if you quit the sarcastic remarks, things would be a bit nicer around here. In any case, I never said that I haven't made mistakes and several of them more than once. I distinguished the difference between a mistake and a MISTAKE but apparently that eluded you. And by the way, if i had a complete stranger in my house and i locked myself in an entertainment Unit after doing it once already, i would definitely consider myself a dumb person.

Tennant StuartJan 15, 2002, 7:51 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

I understand perfectly well, Sofya. He has got you fooled too. ;)

Tennant

TriggerJan 22, 2002, 6:14 PM ET↩ Dennis

But I also remember when Joey was talking to Chandler about the Metaphorical tunnel. Everyone else thought that his idea was a good one! So he not as dumb as some of you claim he is!! I have many more where this came from, so bring it on!!

Dennis wrote in message news:[email]...

is

not

"dumb

who

can

a

Chandler

to

Tennant StuartJan 23, 2002, 1:00 PM ET↩ Trigger

In article , "Trigger" wrote:

That's right, Sarah. Joey has in fact been quite clever since the pilot episode - check out his "Grab a Spoon" lecture to Ross, and Monica being so annoyed with Joey for setting her straight, "Of course it was a line", that she shoved him off of the sofa - but for most discerning fans it was the moment in 107 "TOW the Blackout", when Joey's calm but serious voice came out of the darkness to so stun Ross with "It's never gonna happen", that it was obvious Joey is not just a pretty face.

Tennant

SofyaJan 23, 2002, 5:13 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Oh, i'll bring it...

oh yes quite clever...you dont' think its the same thing as "there are many fish in the sea"

You think Ross doesn't know there are many spoons and fish? Joey just pointed it out...oooohh thats very clever. Unless you were just talking about the analogy? hehe...

and Monica being

yeah, i knew it was a line too...Monica is just gullible...thats Monica for ya.

He states the obvious Tennant.

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 24, 2002, 12:51 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Just don't be selective, please. Comment on all the old episodes you see.

No I don't, there's a subtle difference - but anyway that doesn't matter.

You can try to denigrate Joey's advice as much as you like, but it meant a great deal to Ross, who went from being scared of the future, to doing something about it. At the end of the episode, Ross told Monica that his much improved mood was because he had just grabbed a spoon.

So you are admitting that Joey is more clever than Monica.

I never said that this was rocket science, Sofya. I am defending Joey from the accusation that he's so dumb that he can't stand up straight.

Ross was staggered when Joey deduced he was in secretly love with Rachel.

It took the girls another six months to find that out, and even then that was only because Chandler stupidly blabbed it to them.

Tennant

TriggerJan 24, 2002, 9:33 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Tennant Stuart wrote in message news:[email]...

I would just like to say that I don't agree that Rachel and Joey should end up together. But he isn't *stupid*. This is not why I don't like them together. I am a true believer of R&R. I really blame the writers on the show for this. They pounded it in my head for years that R&R should be together and anything else seems unatural to me! Anyway, my point (that I started to make) was that I think that Joey is very clever (not necessarily book smart) and not an idiot! Look at the talk that he had with Ross in TOW Rachel's Date. He can be smart and serious all at once.

SofyaJan 24, 2002, 9:53 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

No, Joey stated something that even Phoebe would know(dunno about Rachel). Whats clever about something obvious.

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:02 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

It wasn't obvious to Monica, she spread her legs because of that line.

Tennant

Paul HyettJan 24, 2002, 5:57 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Tennant Stuart stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

I wouldn't say that was clever of him, it just falls within his narrow band of expertise - 'guy stuff'. :)

Ditto.

Tennant StuartJan 24, 2002, 7:08 PM ET↩ Paul Hyett

In article , Paul Hyett wrote:

Even *if* that was all he knew, he wouldn't be dumb.

There are many more examples Paul, not just relationship stuff.

Tennant

SofyaJan 14, 2002, 1:08 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Well as many as I can get on WB and NBC up till lets say March. And i'll report back to you then. Remind me the first week of March. And i'll just make a note at my desk to bring a notepad w/ me when i'm watching Friends.

What do you mean? You don't think Monica is educated? They both went to high school and studied, how was she not given "every opportunity"? I know that Ross was favored over Monica by their parents but do you think they did that for education also? Thats going a little too far.

Sounds good.

--Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 14, 2002, 1:17 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Why not write in as you see them?

Oh, and please don't mention any brand new episodes.

I did say "suspect". We've heard about Ross, Chandler & Rachel at college, but not Monica. Please correct me if I've missed something.

As for her parents going too far, they paid for half of Ross's wedding when they didn't have to, then refused to pay for Monica's wedding.

Okay, good for you Sofya. :)

Tennant

JamesS1889Jan 16, 2002, 8:21 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

In article , Tennant Stuart writes:

TriggerJan 22, 2002, 6:11 PM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a1si3q$vr3$[email]...

now.

with

heart

just

show,

big

a

list

a

Get a life!!!

abrahammyJan 13, 2002, 3:59 PM ET↩ Sofya

"Sofya" wrote in message

always.

it

get

Well, Sofya, what I think is happening here is that the writers write Joey inconsistently. Tennant deserves some credit; he's largely right. There are often times when Joey says some very insightful things. My own favorite probably actually went under the radar of many people. Way back during Rachel's birthday in season one he gave her a copy of "Oh, the Places You'll Go", and talked about how that children's book helped him through hard times. It's by Dr. Seuss. Rachel didn't get it, tossed it aside, and I think the audience was supposed to laugh that Joey gave her Dr. Seuss. Those of us familiar with the book are aware that it's about how determination and courage can make you successful as you go through life, despite obstacles. It was a terrific choice for that time in her life. Nobody realized it.

Tennant has rightly observed that Joey is often the mouthpiece of wisdom on the show. The problem is that the writers insist on falling back on their crutch of making him a dumb guy sometimes, which is how we get such awful crap as Hand Twin. His hypothesis is based on a desire to reconcile the character's real split nature. It's certainly the only explanation you can give while assuming the writers actually have a plan and stick to it. I have come to the sad conclusion, after all these years, that they don't, but Tennant is less cynical (and, I think, less exasperated) than I am.

Tennant StuartJan 14, 2002, 8:32 AM ET↩ abrahammy

In article , "abrahammy" wrote:

Thanks.

Absolutely.

I didn't get that one until someone (probably you) explained it to me.

Grin. I must confess I don't really understand the Hand Twin concept either, maybe it's beyond all of us, Claire. :)

The best I can think of is that the whole farrago was there to signal a growing rift between the former Best Buds as Monica became ever more important in Chandler's life, for the whole story featured his lack of support for Joey - then this apparently stupid idea was Chandler's real test, since anyone can support an obviously good idea.

After Chandler struggled with the concept, and finally resorted to lying to his former best friend, Phoebe walked in through the door...

PHOEBE: Hey! JOEY: Pheebs!! PHOEBE: Yeah? JOEY: I found my identical hand twin! PHOEBE: Ohh, you are so lucky!

..and *that* was true support.

Tennant

SofyaJan 14, 2002, 1:23 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Its not supposed to be understandable. Joey is wierd(writers want him to be that way...just like they do w/ Pheebs).

LOL! Okay, you gotta be kidding!? Pheebs is like Joey, meaning their goofy, silly and in their own world. That wasn't support because Pheebs believes in "hand twins" also because she's probably is looking for her hand twin also(lol).

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 14, 2002, 1:18 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

How can you say it's not supposed to be understandable when you don't understand it? I can only say that about things I do understand.

You have completely misunderstood that, Sofya.

Tennant

Marita BakkenJan 14, 2002, 6:39 PM ET↩ Sofya

"Sofya" wrote in message news:...

Oh, believe me, you don't want to try to convince Tennant that Phoebe is silly. Many people have tried to do so, but *nobody* has succeeded yet. :)

Also, I'd just like to say that I disagree with you when you claim that they're stupid. Joey may not know who Gandalf the Wizard is, but he isn't silly. One of the best examples of Joey's quick thinking is IMO the teaser scene of 511 TOW All The Resolutions where he manages to help his best friend so that he can kiss his girlfriend while the others don't suspect a thing. And all this in a matter of 30 seconds!

As for Phoebe, I can only tell you to take a look at 509 TOW Ross's Sandwich and numerous other episodes.

SofyaJan 15, 2002, 12:14 AM ET↩ Marita Bakken

"Marita Bakken" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

lying

goofy,

believes in

So are you saying that Phoebe isn't silly?

I'm not trying to convince anybody. So far Tennant hasn't done so great a job at convincing me...he has only shown me that he's misunderstands everything that Joey does and claims its clever or smart when its just classic "goofball." And who says that when someone's dumb they are always dumb, eh?

Umm...didn't she make Ross into Mental Gellar because of her advice of scaring the shit out of the coworkes?

Sofya

Paul HyettJan 15, 2002, 5:13 AM ET↩ Sofya

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Sofya stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

She is flaky.

Marita BakkenJan 15, 2002, 3:53 PM ET↩ Sofya

"Sofya" wrote in message news:...

Absolutely. She's one of the smartest people on the show. The thing about Phoebe is that she is unconventional, but she sure isn't stupid. She keeps showing over and over again how smart she actually is, so I'm afraid I'll never agree with you here.

People see what they want to see, and sadly, the popular belief seems to be that Joey is a perfect idiot. Fortunately, the popular belief isn't always correct.

Mental Geller had been in the making for quite some time at that point, and what Phoebe did was to try to help him out. Phoebe didn't unleash anything; Ross did that to himself. However, I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about Phoebe and Rachel's story in that episode, where Phoebe proved once and for all that even though she didn't go to high-school, she's really smart.

Amy and DaveJan 15, 2002, 3:56 PM ET↩ Marita Bakken

I have to agree that Phoebe is very smart and wants to learn, but I think being silly and being dumb are 2 completely different things. I really think that Phoebe is silly. You have to admit that she does some very silly things, but that doesn't make her dumb. I think that makes her fun.

Marita Bakken wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

a

always

abrahammyJan 15, 2002, 6:54 PM ET↩ Amy and Dave

"Amy and Dave" wrote in message news:hI018.33795$[email]...

think

Phoebe cheerfully admits that she is flaky. She is rarely actually stupid.

Amy and DaveJan 15, 2002, 11:14 PM ET↩ abrahammy

Exactly!!

abrahammy wrote in message news:jj318.34128$[email]...

think

stupid.

SofyaJan 15, 2002, 4:24 PM ET↩ Marita Bakken

"Marita Bakken" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

I said she's silly not stupid. I am a very silly person at times and yet I'm not stupid. I can act dumb at times but it does not mean i'm dumb. That is how Joey is...but saying that he's smart and clever doesn't cut it for me.

Sofya

a

always

TriggerJan 22, 2002, 6:28 PM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a1v7o0$8gl$[email]...

own

back

him

her

about

through

wisdom

plan

less

be

goofy,

in

Yes, but Joey has said a lot more clever things than Phoebe has! Remember when Monica asked Phoebe to think before she spoke and Phoebe said that there wasn't always time. Atleast Joey makes an effort to try and not look stupid and humiliate himself. Phoebe does not. But they are both good for laughs!!

SofyaJan 23, 2002, 5:17 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:CAm38.10239$[email]...

write

right.

the

it

her

on

real

lying

believes

*laughs* Love that line.

Atleast Joey makes an effort to try and not look

Ok, so he doesn't try to look stupid but he also does not think.

Joey doing that game with Ross and asking him quick questions "who would you rather sleep with? Rachel or Monica?" Ross stares at him. Joey: "oh yeah i forgot you and Rachel have that whole history thing." They are sisters, think Joey, think.

Phoebe does not. But they are both good for

Good for laughs...very true.

Sofya

SofyaJan 23, 2002, 6:06 PM ET↩ Sofya

"Sofya" wrote in message news:a2ncot$s4$[email]...

,

My

Way

helped

tossed

gave

me.

back

get

to

only

a

these

to

signal

more

of

Remember

you

Oops, i meant "siblings," not "sisters" lol.

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 24, 2002, 12:52 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Like I've been saying Sofya, even clever people make mistakes. :)

Tennant

SofyaJan 24, 2002, 9:56 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

ok, maybe Joey isn't as dumb as I said before but I do not think he's as clever as you say he is. That "Grab a spoon" thing i guess could count as clever but thats cuz he's a love machine and he knows this stuff.

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:03 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Sofya, I've made it repeatedly clear that I'm not making Joey out to be any kind of genius. I'm just saying he isn't a dumbass who can't stand up straight, and needs to be told how to breathe.

Well, I'm glad to see you're coming round, but Joey can be quite clever about other things than relationships. Look at 804 "TOW the Videotape", where he corrects Ross's grammar. That episode also has a neat moment in which you can see Joey being dumb, and then he drops the act.

Tennant

TriggerJan 22, 2002, 6:25 PM ET↩ abrahammy

abrahammy wrote in message news:yym08.28447$[email]...

actually

what

otherwise.

favorite

You'll

on

can

but

I completely agree abrahammy!!

TriggerJan 22, 2002, 6:10 PM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a1ne0o$74j$[email]...

he

always.

it

get

Sofya, You know, I have seen no line that you are riding on with your opinions. You are all over the map. You seem to be willing to bash anyone of the friends and everyone in this newsgroup. If you have such a problem with the characters on Friends, then why do you watch the show? And if you don't like what we have to say and we bug you so much then why do you continue to read this ng? We all have our own opinions and you DON"T have to like them. But you do need to learn respect for other people. Your childish ways are giving me (and others) headaches!!! Hey Tennant!!

Tennant StuartJan 23, 2002, 12:58 PM ET↩ Trigger

In article , "Trigger" wrote:

Yes dear?

It does seem that some people (this includes most of the media) have very fixed ideas about Joey being dumb, and they either don't really watch how he is on the show, or they have very selective memories.

Tennant

abrahammyJan 25, 2002, 8:39 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Funny. I read an interview with Matt LeBlanc recently, and HE said Joey was dumb, too. Seems the actor would have a good perspective on this...

DennisJan 25, 2002, 1:00 PM ET↩ abrahammy

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:xed48.14209$[email]...

was

Oh but you must understand that certain people in this ng know better than him and the writers. (or at least they think they do).

Marita BakkenJan 25, 2002, 3:35 PM ET↩ abrahammy

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

If you're referring to the interview with him that was in USA Today last Thursday (01/17/02), here's what he said on the matter:

"Call his character sweet or sexy, but not dumb, LeBlanc says. (...)

But whatever you do, don't call Joey dumb. "I don't think he's dumb," LeBlanc insists. "I think he's wrong. He's absolutely sure he's right. The only problem is, he's not. There have been episodes where I wonder, 'Wow, how did he get his shoes tied this morning?' But I guess that's the license you have in television."

abrahammyJan 26, 2002, 12:07 AM ET↩ Marita Bakken

"Marita Bakken" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

was

Grin. That is an exact quote, and a good contribution to this thread. You are right, Marita, it is the important quotation. I stand corrected; LeBlanc did not say Joey was dumb. He did say that sometimes LeBlanc has wondered how Joey tied his shoes. Define the difference. :-)

SofyaJan 23, 2002, 4:55 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:Bjm38.10221$[email]...

with

actually

what

otherwise.

the

to

them.

And there you go again...hypocricy at its highest...

Sofya

SofyaJan 23, 2002, 5:03 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:Bjm38.10221$[email]...

with

actually

what

otherwise.

the

to

them.

*don't know why i'm replying to this ridiculous post but heck why not, i'll play along* I love the show. It doesn't mean I think they are all smart, they are all nice and they should all act the same. Rachel needs love but is spoiled. Ross needs love but is crazy. Phoebe is funny and quacky but is rude many times. Joey is a sweetheart who deep inside wants love but up till season 8 has been a playboy(maybe he still is, who knows) and is over-the-top at times. I like the fact that they have flaws...thats one realistic thing about the show...it shows the humanity in people. And when i post...i post emotionally because i can relate sometimes and like any other person in this newsgroup I state my opinions (although i have to say you get way too emotional with Rachel-criticisers). If you think I'm bashing then you should look to yourself to see why you would think that because i'm not bashing. I'm just replying like Tennant(he's more detailed). I don't agree with Tennant and you on all notes but I am not bashing you. I'm just rebuting(is that a word?) his and your and all the other people's posts as i see fit based on my opinion. I do not bash. I know what its like to be bashed and i would never do so. Ta ta :)

Sofya

DennisJan 12, 2002, 2:40 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

where do you get 81/2 seasons from????? This is the 8th season, so in reality what you should have said was 7 1/2.....

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

better

David BuehrleJan 12, 2002, 3:00 PM ET↩ Dennis

"Dennis" wrote in message news:[email]...

he

always.

it

get

This reminds me of all the hoopla about whether 2000 or 2001 is the first year of the new millenium. IF the calendar had actually started at the beginning, 2001 would be correct. For anyone who is still interested, I heard a pretty simply explanation that makes sense:

Picture a new born baby. Obviously, he is in his first year. If ages were like the calendar we would say he is one up until his first birthday, at which time we would say he is now beginning his second year. It is his year 2. Then, he doesn't become two years old until the *end* of the second year. It is the same with the calendar. The calendar didn't become 2000 years old until the end of the 2000th year. So, 2001 really is the first year of the new millenium.

Of course, all of this is mute as Jesus was not likely to have been born at the zero point anyway. It's all arbitrary. Pick a point in time and say, "Let's start here."

DennisJan 12, 2002, 3:14 PM ET↩ David Buehrle

"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:4B008.206559$[email]...

with

were

year

at

Sorry, but either way you look at it, this is the middle of the 8th season, meaning that we have seen 7 full season and a 1/2 season. Do the math. This has nothing to do with the millenium issue.

David BuehrleJan 13, 2002, 12:39 AM ET↩ Dennis

just

show,

harsh).

first

2000

first

Oh yeah, that MOOT, not mute. It's quite obviously not silent. I rambled on for about 20 lines there.

say,

season,

This

I don't have any problem with the fact that it's 7 1/2 years. I was just saying that it *reminded* me of the millenium issue.

"Got a problem with that?" Monica Geller

DB (He's going to jump on me for that quote, isn't he?)

TriggerJan 23, 2002, 1:53 PM ET↩ Dennis

season,

This

Why are you still arguing about this? You are beating a dead horse! Tennant has already said that he meant 7 and a half and not 8 and a half seasons. Please, tell me that you are done with this argument!

DennisJan 23, 2002, 2:05 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:HED38.21541$[email]...

This was so many days ago. I don't know when you replied but this issue has ended long time ago...

Seran PerryJan 23, 2002, 3:41 PM ET↩ Trigger

You're a bit late. I already smacked their heads and told them to shut up. This arguments been over for a few days now Sarah

Cornell HurdJan 28, 2002, 9:20 PM ET↩ Seran Perry

"Seran Perry" wrote in message news:[email]...

This

everyone

It's not over till the big guy says it's over. Seran, you're an ass. Trigger, you suck. Dennis, bite me.

David BuehrleJan 28, 2002, 9:28 PM ET↩ Cornell Hurd

up.

Ahhh, now there's a scene I cringed about.

Seran PerryJan 29, 2002, 11:17 AM ET↩ David Buehrle

I know, it's a nice ass isn't it?

Lol! Oh! I now have an idea for a smut story!

DennisJan 29, 2002, 11:29 AM ET↩ Cornell Hurd

"Cornell Hurd" wrote in message news:FJn58.19615$[email]...

math.

half

up.

hm...Seran, you got to change the nominees for most anal poster...I don't think we even have to vote for the winner.

Seran PerryJan 29, 2002, 11:57 AM ET↩ Dennis

lol. Who is this person anyway. I've never seen him before today. He's got a partner in crime called Ken too apparantly...

CandiGrrlJan 29, 2002, 1:12 PM ET↩ Dennis

Dennis wrote in message news:[email]...

Don't know if he's anal, exactly... seems like he's just a troll, and we don't have a category for that.

TriggerJan 29, 2002, 1:52 PM ET↩ Dennis

Dennis wrote in message news:[email]...

Agreed!

TriggerJan 23, 2002, 1:54 PM ET↩ Dennis

Sorry didn't finish....... and David made a mistake too (not just Tennant) But that is OK. We are only human

Tennant StuartJan 13, 2002, 7:40 AM ET↩ David Buehrle

In article , "David Buehrle" wrote:

Actually, it was just my mistake, I should have said 7ï¿½ seasons.

But at at least I can *say* 7ï¿½, instead of having to make do with 7 1/2. ;)

Tennant

DennisJan 13, 2002, 11:47 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

first

;)

You just had to add that extra comment in the end didn't you? It's like you you know you made a mistake and then try and find something that someone else has done wrong to get back at them for correcting you.

Tennant StuartJan 13, 2002, 7:38 AM ET↩ Dennis

In article , "Dennis" wrote:

My mistake. Software engineers start counting at zero. ;)

Tennant Stuart

Alex WashtellDec 26, 2001, 3:44 PM ET↩ Paul Hyett

"Paul Hyett" wrote in message news:[email]...

Didn't think there was anything wrong with these scenes...

Al

Chase CorriganDec 29, 2001, 3:31 AM ET↩ Alex Washtell

I agree about the whole 'cat' story. The scene where Ross had to apologize should never have been aired.

I also agree that most of Eddie Cahill's acting was quite cringe worthy.

A lot of Mental Geller made me cringe, as did the 'screechy Monica' scenes in season 6. I think both Schwimmer and Cox are very good actors, I also think that in the early years they played the most well rounded characters. This made it all the more painful.

In TOW Mr. Heckles Dies, I think the scene where Chandler says 'We'll try to keep it down,' before turning out the lights is a little bit too schmaltzy.

Also there is part of a scene I always have to fast forward in TOW Ross Finds Out. I think overall, this is actually one of the best R&R episodes. However, in the final scene in Central Perk, after Ross walks out, Rachel is left alone. I always cringe here, Rachel is supposed to be crying through heartbreak but IMO it really doesn't come off.

David BuehrleDec 29, 2001, 2:40 PM ET↩ Chase Corrigan

"Chase Corrigan" wrote in message news:[email]...

Sometimes we just have to suspend reality a little more than other times. I never had a problem with the scene you mention, but then, JA allows me a little extra suspension room.

TriggerDec 29, 2001, 4:19 PM ET↩ Chase Corrigan

The most crindgeworthy episode HAS to be TOW Heckles Dies!!!!! Heckles himself was a stupid bit, and who can forget Janice also in this episode. The worst episode of friends ever!!

Chase Corrigan wrote in message news:[email]...

Jim GoodluckDec 29, 2001, 2:10 PM ET↩ Paul Hyett

All of the scenes with "the inappropriate sister".

I don't know about the rest of you, but they kind of weirded me out.

Jim

Keyser SozeDec 29, 2001, 3:16 PM ET↩ Jim Goodluck

Monica when she came hom sick from work and refused to acept she was ill, going on to try and seduce Chandler. Sickening.

CandiGrrlDec 29, 2001, 3:21 PM ET↩ Jim Goodluck

Jim Goodluck wrote in message ...

Then I would *not* recommend "This World, Then The Fireworks" :)

BramDec 30, 2001, 7:37 PM ET↩ Paul Hyett

In a previous post, the mostly harmless Paul Hyett claimed:

4-15 : TOW All The Rugby: Chandler going to Yemen to escape Janice

Horrible, horrible! A torrent of unbelievability. Way overdone. That entire episode could be scratched for that matter. The other storylines (Monica trying to figure out what some switch does, Ross trying to impress Emily by playing rugby) are bad as well.

Bram

Tennant StuartDec 31, 2001, 7:42 AM ET↩ Bram

In article , Bram wrote:

The episode is no classic, but what about this hilarious scene...

  MONICA: This switch thing has been driving me crazy. So I turned it
          off and checked every outlet. Now, four of them don't work.
          Which means, one of them has to be controlled by the switch.
          So, I plugged in things in all four of the outlets that-that
          make noise, so that way, when I turn it on I just follow the
          noise and find out which one it is.
  JOEY: (smugly, to Rachel) I bet I stopped listening before you did.
  RACHEL: Y'know, you also could've used uh, lamps and then followed
          the light.
  MONICA: Yeah, well, I'm using noise. Okay. Alright! So, is everybody
          ready? Here we go. (She flips the switch, and a hum starts.)
          I hear something! I hear something! Where is it?
  (The girls all start looking, until Rachel locates the source.)
  RACHEL: It's coming from Joey!
  PHOEBE: Oh my God, that's so freaky! Turn him off!!

Tennant Stuart

Sydney AssbasketDec 31, 2001, 11:37 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Any scene with overuse of applause and the "woooh" track. For example, the scene with all the candles when Monica accepts Chandler's proposal (I hope I got the scene correct) is ruined, IMHO, by the stadium sized applause/wooh track used.

The whole thing with Phoebe not believing evolution kind of pissed me off. That goes along with the cat story.

I didn't much care for Rachel's $1000 cat. Hearing "It's not a cat" for the billionth time got annoying.

The scene where Joey is eating a pickle and bologna sandwich in the shower grossed me out. (On a side note, I once saw someone at school eating a bag of Doritos in the restroom. Yuck.) ________________________________________________________________

If love of money is the root of all evil, why do churches want it so badly?

Remove "bination" to reply.

TriggerJan 1, 2002, 1:43 AM ET↩ Sydney Assbasket

Sydney Assbasket wrote in message news:[email]...

the

I

the

bag of

I have to openly disagree with you on all of these scenes (except ofcourse the, Phoebe and her mother as a cat scene). The Phoebe and not buying the revolution bit is a friends classic, especially the way she played off of Ross. I laugh hystarically when I see that scene!! It one of the many scenes with mind games that we have come to love over the years, like Monica and Chandler's secret dating (and the new classic) TOW The Videotape. This is when friends is at its finest!!

JamesS1889Jan 1, 2002, 2:03 AM ET↩ Sydney Assbasket

In article , [email] (Sydney Assbasket ) writes:

"Money, so they say Is the root of all evil today But if you ask for a rise It's no surprise They're giving none away." (Pink Floyd)

MandyJan 14, 2002, 9:59 PM ET↩ Sydney Assbasket

which was the episode with phoebe not believing in evolution? i forget...

thanks

Sydney Assbasket wrote:

Paul HyettJan 15, 2002, 5:15 AM ET↩ Mandy

On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Mandy Finkelstein stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

S2-03 : TOW Heckles Dies

I've always wondered - does she *really* not believe in evolution, or was she just winding Ross up, as she hinted at the end?

Tennant StuartJan 15, 2002, 7:55 PM ET↩ Paul Hyett

In article , Paul Hyett wrote:

Exactly.

I think she was just doing her usual flaky act at the start, but because Ross wouldn't listen to what she was saying, she pushed him to see how he coped. Sadly, Ross caved, and thereby lost some respect.

Tennant

SofyaJan 16, 2002, 12:08 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

I didn't lose respect for him. And i don't think that Phoebe was envisioning the ending from the start.

abrahammyJan 16, 2002, 7:56 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Ross did not cave. She made a valid argument. He acknowledged it. She ripped him to shreds, destroying him *personally* for disagreeing with her. It is acceptable because he was being kind of a pain in the butt. It's not exactly TOW the Cat.

Tennant StuartJan 17, 2002, 8:41 AM ET↩ abrahammy

In article , "abrahammy" wrote:

I basically agree with you, with the small difference that Phoebe said that Ross caved (which doesn't necessarily mean that he did) and that there were gaping holes in Phoebe's argument that Ross didn't expose (which still doesn't mean that he caved). Certainly, she was rather cruel & unfeeling with the "how are you going to face yourself?" line that she took, but lack of empathy is one of Phoebe's failings, as in her unthinking betrayal of Monica in 716 "TOW the Truth About London".

Tennant

Tennant StuartJan 15, 2002, 7:41 PM ET↩ Mandy

In article , Mandy Finkelstein wrote:

The episode you have forgotten was 203 "TOW Heckles Dies", and whilst correct, you have rather simplified her complex position...

PHOEBE: There're a lot of things that I don't believe in, but that doesn't mean they're not true.

Tennant Stuart

MandyJan 25, 2002, 10:30 PM ET↩ Mandy

does anyone else cringe when Monica rubs the macaroni and cheese and knife against her in the one with the thanksgivings? ick! Mandy Finkelstein wrote:

SofyaJan 26, 2002, 6:36 PM ET↩ Mandy

"Mandy Finkelstein" wrote in message news:[email]...

No! That was one of the funniest moments in Friends history for me, and another is Ross's leather pants scene in the bathroom. Oh and who could forget the funniest reaction ever: when Monica is wearing a turkey on her head and she's trying to make Chandler feel better and Joey walks into the door and screams his head off when he sees Monica and runs away. That was SO hilarious! And an equally funny reaction was when Ben and Ross pulled a joke on Rachel and pretended to have Ross fall down the stairs...and Rachel's reaction was unforgettable.

Sofya

TriggerJan 27, 2002, 3:18 PM ET↩ Sofya

Sofya wrote in message news:a2vehe$2k9$[email]...

SO

joke

Wow, I think that that is the first time that I have heard you say something about Rachel that you liked (even if it was just a reaction that you liked)! Maybe just maybe you are willing to open your mind a little bit to how funny that character is. By the way, I have to say that you might think that I am obsessed with the character Rachel and this isn't true. I'll tell you why. She is my favorite character but I will stick up for all of the characters on Friends when anyone bashes them because I am a true Friends fan. It just seems that she is bashed more than the rest. I have been sticking up for Joey for numerous posts now because some have said that he is stupid. I just don't think that focusing on any of their bad points is worth this much of a headache. I believe that seeing their good parts and laughing at their jokes is more enjoyable. I just don't see why some of you think that arguing over this is fun. i am tired of it. And yes, I have argued to (not necissarily because I wanted to), but just to stick up for My Favorite Show. This is why I come on the ng!! :o)

SofyaJan 28, 2002, 5:59 PM ET↩ Trigger

"Trigger" wrote in message news:LgZ48.23947$[email]...

her

the

was

something

liked)!

funny

I didn't say Rachel wasn't funny. Sometimes i think she's funnier than Joey and Phoebe with her subtleness(sp?). The only thing I ever said about Rachel was that she has faults like everyone else, and that Ross is not solely responsible for the breakup.

why.

just

much

their

(not

Show.

I'd say i'm a big fan of Phoebe because i'm so much like her. I guess I'm also sensitive to Ross because I feel Mental Gellar has ruined his actual persona--he is a kind, sweet man who loves Rachel and always will.

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 31, 2002, 7:18 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

Subtlety.

Tennant

TriggerJan 27, 2002, 3:09 PM ET↩ Mandy

Mandy Finkelstein wrote in message news:[email]...

Yes, That scene was imbarassing to watch!

TriggerJan 1, 2002, 1:38 AM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

Tennant Stuart wrote in message news:[email]...

I agree. This was a great scene and I have to admit that if it weren't for Joey and Phoebe's lines then it would have been most cringworthy!! -Sarah

Tennant StuartJan 1, 2002, 6:42 AM ET↩ Trigger

In article , "Trigger" wrote:

Thanks Sarah - yes, just reading it makes me laugh again.

Tennant

TriggerJan 1, 2002, 1:52 AM ET↩ Paul Hyett

Here is another cringworthy scene (or multiple episodes if you will). The one(s) when Monica is dating that guy Pete and especially the episode TOW The Ultimate Fighting Championship!! That guy was creepy and not attractive. But this isn't the main reason why this bugged me, it was because I just didn't believe that Monica would try so hard to fall in love with a guy she wasn't attracted to. I mean, she and the other girls have never had a problem turning guys down in the past. But the fact that she worked so hard to have feelings for him because he was wealthy made me think less of Monica herself!! And the guy was Creepy!

PhyllJan 2, 2002, 11:41 PM ET↩ Trigger

Pete was creepy? I liked him...I think the Ultimate Fighting Championship stuff was a really lame reason to have her break up with him. Also having Gary shoot the bird...that was just dumb. I also hate "I take the Rachel" when he was about to marry Emily.

NARAGJan 4, 2002, 11:27 AM ET↩ Paul Hyett

Most cringeworthy scene has to be the NBC trailer for 812 - Joey dates Rachel; all 30 secs of it.

Andrï¿½ KnocheJan 4, 2002, 4:59 PM ET↩ NARAG

how about TOW the Prom when Ross tries to explain this lobster thing to Rachel? he looks so dumb, as does he when he comes to central perk in a sailor uniform in TOW the chicken pox. Thats just too much of sucking up.

Andre

Tennant StuartJan 4, 2002, 9:03 PM ET↩ Andrï¿½ Knoche

In article , "Andrï¿½ Knoche" wrote:

Oh, come on! Even as a guy I can see that was as romantic as hell.

And he did dump her arse-first on the sofa in the end.

Tennant

Andrï¿½ KnocheJan 5, 2002, 4:38 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message...

Why would that be romantic? Because he tried to make true one of her "kinky" fantasies?

well, that was funny ;-)

Andre

Tennant StuartJan 5, 2002, 7:48 PM ET↩ Andrï¿½ Knoche

In article , "Andrï¿½ Knoche" wrote:

Always worth the effort, Andrï¿½.

She pushed it too far.

Tennant

abrahammyJan 7, 2002, 10:07 PM ET↩ Andrï¿½ Knoche

"Andrï¿½ Knoche" wrote in message news:[email]...

"kinky"

Yes. As Tennant said, romantic as hell.

My most cringe-worthy scene? Apologizing to the cat. I am offended by it and I refuse to watch it. It's bad enough being preached to in a sitcom; being preached to by somebody who is clear dead wrong, out of line, out of sync, selfish, and delusional, and who humiliates the only person she knows who was willing to tell her she was hurting somebody else with her inexcusable behavior....aaaaack. Selfish, crazy, nasty little hypocrite. However, there are many scenes in which Rachel's prescribed punishment for Ross comes close to pathological. Those, like the audience with the New York court, get honorable mention.

Paul HyettJan 8, 2002, 6:34 AM ET↩ abrahammy

On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, abrahammy stated this considered view. Waking from my doze, I hastily scrawled -

Hi Claire - yes that seems to be the winner, many people named that scene.

SofyaJan 8, 2002, 3:15 PM ET↩ abrahammy

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:Hnt_7.12419$[email]...

knows

I agree about the cat plot. That was the first time I actually got so angry w/ a character(Phoebe) that i began to hold a grudge against them. That was ridiculous of Phoebe. I can't believe Ross would give in and that the others would just stand around. I refuse to watch that episode whenever its on.

Sofya

Tennant StuartJan 8, 2002, 7:40 PM ET↩ Sofya

In article , "Sofya" wrote:

That wasn't Phoebe's fault, she was in an emotional turmoil - it was that bitch Rachel who guilted poor kind Ross into debasing himself.

Tennant

SofyaJan 9, 2002, 12:00 PM ET↩ Tennant Stuart

"Tennant Stuart" wrote in message news:[email]...

Don't get me started on Rachel, lol. Also, i don't know whether this plot or episode is exactly cringeworthy but i do find it "uncomfortable." TOW the Inappropriate Sister. I just find it so disgusting to watch a brother and sister be so sexual. I'm still debating whether they were really siblings, lol.

Sofya

SofyaJan 4, 2002, 10:11 PM ET↩ Andrï¿½ Knoche

Wasn't he always sucking up throughout their relationship?

Sofya

"Andrï¿½ Knoche" wrote in message news:[email]...

David BuehrleJan 4, 2002, 10:11 PM ET↩ NARAG

"NARAG" wrote in message news:[email]...

Here, here. (or is it hear, hear?)

CandiGrrlJan 5, 2002, 3:55 AM ET↩ David Buehrle

David Buehrle wrote in message news:N9uZ7.167261$[email]...

Go for one of each? Hear here.

Tennant StuartJan 5, 2002, 1:25 PM ET↩ CandiGrrl