This is the bet, for those who have forgotten:

Oops, my hand slipped. Let me try this again.

This was my wager:

about a *crisis* (not a resolution) in the Joey/Rachel relationship, I will be very happy to write you *one* long essay, with thought and enthusiasm, about every good thing that could come out of a Joey/Rachel pairing. Because I can do that with conviction. There are certainly points that can be made. And many thanks to Priya for the idea.

This was the wager for Johnson Walker:

write a daily essay. And you don't have to insult anybody. Just give me an essay discussing the advantages of Rachel staying with Ross.

If the cliffhanger involves Ross or Rachel declaring love for each other, discussing really getting married again, or some other significant step forward in their relationship with each other, I would like that essay. Now, if Ross and Rachel declare their undying devotion AND Joey skips town, we will BOTH be writing essays on the other's position! Which could be an absolute hoot! <<<

I think this may actually be kind of confusing and require outside judges, but I DO have my essay planned if it becomes necessary, and I WILL follow through if I need to. Has anybody actually heard from Paul in awhile?

Can you state who has what position and who's writing what essay and what are the essays??

Sofya

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:KpWE8.3176$[email]...

will

can

to

an

I

other's

"Sofya" wrote in message news:ac3b2b$vjr$[email]...

Thought I did. Here it is again.

If the cliffhanger "is about a crisis (not a resolution) in the Joey/Rachel relationship, I am to write one long essay, with thought and enthusiasm, about every good thing that could come out of a Joey/Rachel pairing.

If the cliffhanger "involves Ross or Rachel declaring love for each other, discussing really getting married again, or some other significant step forward in their relationship with each other," Paul is to give me an essay discussing the advantages of Rachel staying with Ross.

I'm seeing a tie here. Joey and Rachel do have a crisis, but the major setup of the episode was about whether or not Ross and Rachel will take significant steps forward. Rachel wants it, Ross has admitted he still loves her, and Judy has this ring, just in case. So who has to write the essay? And is Paul even around? If he's a no-show, this point appears moot. Hmphf. A few months ago he sneered at me for talking the talk but not walking the walk. Well, here I am, walking. And if I'm off base about the tie, please set me straight, folks.

enthusiasm,

me

or

other,

judges,

follow

I vote for both of you to write essays.

Of course this is motivated by my own self interest in reading both. However I do think the cliffhanger puts all three characters at the crest of a significant relationship that could lead in either direction.

Katie

Okay, I agree about the tie. In fact, I was thinking that very thing minutes after the ep aired. But what does that mean? Neither write an essay, or you both do? Personally, I'm thinking I need to read two essays in the near future. Any other opinions?

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:6PaF8.69$[email]...

what

Joey/Rachel

essay

not

I

that

want

again,

"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:J8gF8.2800$[email]...

That's a fair assessment. I said I was thinking this was a tie. Tell ya what, if Paul makes ANY indication he's anywhere around, my essay will be coming forthwith and before the weekend is over.

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

I suggested the essay and I feel that you both need to write one. :)

You should write one because not only did the cliffhanger involve Joey, it also opened the door on Joey's feelings again.

I thought that Joey accidantly revealed the ring to Rachel because he was shocked by the realisation that things were moving quickly with Ross and Rachel even though he has been dealing with the rejection quietly. This could open up the Joey in love with Rachel story again in full force.

Paul needs to write one because both Ross and Rachel have been shown to have feelings for each other.

I do hope that Paul comes back to ATF and writes his. I haven't seen him around since 820. Let's hope that he is good at keeping bets as he claimed.

If he is a no show, then another J&R fan could take up his place and write it instead. I might do it, will let you know. :)

Priya

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

an

ya

be

Priya, you are on. Thanks for honoring this bet.

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:6PaF8.69$[email]...

what

Joey/Rachel

essay

not

It is leaning slightly towards what you said, isn't it? Both Ross and Rachel seem to want to take their relation a step further, they "only" haven't told each other. I don't think the scene at the end qualifies as a crisis, it's more of a misunderstanding. That's all I'll say about this here, now I'm off to some finale discussion thread, where I'll post the rest of my opinion :-)

Andr�

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:ylWE8.3159$[email]...

Priya, I'm going to wait until tomorrow to do this. After my spirited debates with Dan, I'm just not in the right frame of mind to argue for Joey and Rachel effectively.

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

hehe. No problem. Perhaps you can pick up points for your essay from Dan's posts on J&R. ;P

I won't have anything by tommorrow. Say we'll get back to this by this Saturday. Is that okay?

Priya

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

news:...

Joey

news:...

Joey

Well, since I think very little of what Dan said was valid, I probably won't. There are SOME valid reasons why Rachel might be able to make a life with Joey - if she breaks her life patterns and gets away from Ross completely forever - but Dan didn't touch on them.

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:fa6G8.637$[email]...

Claire. You charmer. Do me a favor, next time you think I'm making an invalid argument, just ignore it instead of making me respond for the better part of a Sunday afternoon...

Dan

"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:[email]...

an

better

Actually, Dan, there is only one argument I really thought was completely invalid. The idea that Rachel accepted Joey's proposal because she has feelings for him and would never rush into a marriage she hadn't considered carefully has no basis in Friends history at all, and a lot to discredit it. But that one still has me shaking my head in confusion - especially when you said I was on "shaky ground" - and that my belief that Ross admitted to genuine feelings with Phoebe was "an absolute, utter cop-out, and chances are you knew it the moment you wrote it."

Well, no, it wasn't a cop-out. It WAS taking the entire story progression of the past several episodes completely at face value, including the great preponderance of Rachel's behavior *before* that final scene. That decision could turn out to be a mistake, but the evidence supports my position at the moment. And the idea that Rachel wasn't behaving rationally ten minutes after she gave birth indicates that I have a low opinion of women in general? Dan, I've given birth! Been there, done that, know exactly what it does!

Oh, Dan, you charmer. :-)

I do think that this final pronouncement from you kind of ticked me off, and I believe I have mouthed off a little bit more than I should have. Tell you what, if you will admit my arguments aren't cop-outs based in disdain for women, I won't wander around verbally agape about arguments you make that I find invalid.

It is extremely evident that we have very little common ground here. The bottom line is that you have about the same amount of respect for Ross that I do for Rachel. Well, no, even less. I think there might be hope for her; you think he's beyond redemption. You find the indicators of his behavior unreliable; I do the same for her. We are probably BOTH harder on the one we don't like than the writers intend us to be. The trick then, will be for each of us to try to cut through these very strong biases and determine what the *writers* intended to communicate rather than what each of us chose to see.

I think this is why I probably deal in the kind of analysis you don't like - I'm always trying to figure out why the writers did what they did and what they meant when they did it, whether or not it worked the way they wanted it to and whether or not that decision was even wise.

I think the real story happened in the first 58 minutes of the show and they stuck on the cliffhanger at the end because they needed to shock us and keep us guessing. You think the cliffhanger represented a real epiphany for Rachel. If it was an epiphany, I think they set it up extremely poorly with very little indication that it was coming. Good fiction always involves a coherent, logical and consistent unfolding of events. Joey's story shouldn't have been dropped for six episodes if Rachel was going to discover she loved him in the final seconds. If it was a shocker for ratings, it worked.

As in the case of Johnson Walker, I told him that our debate actually had a
right and wrong answer which would be revealed in time.    Once again, what
we are really doing is getting out our tea leaves.  If she admits to Joey
that she said "OK" because she loved him, then you were right.    I will
think the writing was seriously flawed from 816 on, but that will be the
show's reality, like Ross going crazy for a year.  If Ross and Rachel end up
in love and happy, then I was right, and you won't think it was written very
believably.

By the way, even if they do end up together, I AM going to agree with you that parts were not written well!

We will see.