spoiler space x x x x x x x x x x
i mean joey was willing to sacrifice his happiness with rachel for his "friend" ross but when the role was reversed ross did not care can you say screwed up? i think the season 10 opener will be definitely interesting!!!!!!!!!!
joey and rachel finally!
Wait, wasn't Ross a good friend to Joey when he tried to help him with Charlie a few episodes ago?
And you can't compare Joey & Charlie's relationship with Ross and Rachel. Rachel is not the mother of Joey's child. It's not quite the same.
*NjnTx* :
He did, but wasn't as strong. Neither was Joey in the end.
Almost exactly what I wanted to reply.
That was probably the most predictable cliffhanger in the history of
Friends. So predictable, that I really didn't think, they'd do it.
Although, going by the twists they've done with R+R, in the opener of
season 10 Rachel will probably drop Joey like a hot potato, when she learns,
that he's only getting back on Ross, while the professor reconsidered. Not
that I'll know it, except when someone tells me by chance, because -- as I
promised -- this was the final Friends episode I watched.
I, however, still think they'll end up the RGs together, what they
probably would have done this season already, if it had been the final one.
I just don't care enough anymore! One stupid, soapy plot twist too much.
That can't be compensated by Chandler -- Did I note, that I almost puked
when he turned from sarcastic table-tennis audience to dull Mondler
again? -- or other fun.Good bye, farewell, and amen.
"Christoph Paeper" wrote in message news:ba1l97$30gu$[email]...
learns,
<snip>
Joey didn't go to Rachel to get back at Ross. He went because he realized that Ross wasn't hung up on their (Ross & Joey's) friendship as an obstacle to a meaningful relationship. So why should he (Joey) be? Ross's kissing Charlie indirectly gave Joey permission to give into his love for Rachel. Ross has someone special now, so Joey doesn't need to feel guilty.
Real friends want each other to be happy. After the first awkward admissions, I think Ross and Joey will be just fine.
Kat
"D&K Condron" wrote in message news:[email]...
his
of
obstacle
Please explain the reasoning why Rachel and Ross having a child would make it different. If Ross and Rachel were together, as a couple, it would make a difference, But they are NOT. Rachel deserves to be happy with the man she chooses. It is better for the child if she is happy and in a loving relationship. Whether that will happen or not is debatable, but just because she is a single mother should not put her off limits.
I do agree it was a very predicable ending. Let's just hope they play it out instead of writing it off in the opener. I wouldn't mind watching 4 couples.
Katie
Having a child with a person is different than just dating them for a short time. No matter how much people want Joey & Rachel together, it won't change the R&R history. Joey is a good friend and this is clear in Joey's mind.
Not saying that in real life that Rachel & Joey should never get together if that would make them happy. There's just some things that may complicate things and make it a bit awkward.
Perhaps you should explain the reasoning why it is NOT differant. Any logical person would immediately see that it's differant. Ross was in love with Rachel for years, they had a serious relationship, and even had a child together. Joey probably didn't even know Charlie's last name. Oh yeah, Ross kissing Charlie definitely give Joey permission to sleep with Rachel.
"Jennifer7258" wrote in message news:[email]...
make
logical
Rachel
Yes, Ross *was* in love with Rachel. But he's not now. NOW he likes Charlie and is right in giving that relationship a chance. And yes, R&R *had* a serious relationship, but they don't now. Joey is in love with Rachel NOW, and Rachel wants to explore her feelings for Joey NOW, and that is their business. It's OK for people to live for themselves, not for others, to look forward to their futures instead of being hung up on their pasts. Ross kissing Charlie did give Joey permission to pursue a relationship with Rachel, because it let Joey know that Ross has moved on from Rachel to someone new. The past is the past - it's time for everyone to move on.
Kat
Well said, Kat! ~~~ Kathy
"D&K Condron" wrote in message news:[email]...
together.
kissing
Charlie
NOW,
Ross
Well, I thought it was awfully clever that Ross and Charlie and Rachel and Joey had all this stuff in common..like suddenly everyone was clicking on all cylinders. That right there makes me leary about those couples staying together. But, who the hell knows? For all we know they might put Ross and Joey together!!
"Sycamore'sLady" wrote in message news:[email]...
Charlie
NOW,
Ross
Yes, the finale did have a lot of getting along famously, didn't it ;) I justify it to myself by assuming that Joey and Rachel would hang out/have fun/do stuff together quite a lot in the times we never see - especially when living together - it's just only written into the show when it is relevant. Similarly, when Monica and Chandler got together and just clicked all of a sudden, many fans said they saw it coming. But I didn't, and in reruns still don't, see any hint that those two would be drawn to one another romantically. But once their relationship became a focus of the show and the writers really worked on making them compatible, it made sense. I think it will be clearer with Rachel and Joey if the writers make them an extended storyline.
Kat
"Jennifer7258" wrote in message news:[email]...
make
logical
The correct spelling of "differant" is quoted in the line above as d-i-f-f-e-r-e-n-t. The use of logic is based on a cause and effect relationship where correct reasoning is based on science. Single parenting is based on what is best for the child, not on science. Most people have experence that emotion is not always logical.
together.
Yes they had a child together. They attempted to live together and work through their problems. It DID NOT work. They continued to insult each other and disrespect each other. Ross loved Rachel for years, but he did not treat her like someone he loved. A child learns by what they see. In my opinion the behavior of Ross and Rachel in regards to each other is not something a child should see.
Joey has been dealing with feelings of love for Rachel for over a year. He didn't just fall in bed with her. He has thoughtfully considered Ross and Rachel's past on more that one occasion and stepped aside. The way this was setup clearly indicates it isn't something that just happened in a heat of passion. It was a slow building of passion over time (at different times for each character) and a multitude of events that led to this.
Katie
"res0vdhd" wrote in message news:4Scxa.34396$[email]...
other
treat
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for
There are similarities in the two relationship triangles, and there are differences. Charlie doesn't have a long standing relationship with either guy--Rachel does have a much longer history with Ross than with Joey. I think it really boils down to this--the show's center point used to be Ross with Rachel revolving tightly around him. But that shifted to Rachel being the central character and Ross (and Joey) revolving around her.
You mention the slow building of passion. I see a pattern with Rachel about that. I mean, the way things played out with Ross in the beginning is the same pattern as with Joey. The guy falls in love with her. She finds out. There is a period of time in which she thinks about it and dismisses it for some reason. Suddenly something happens to turn her interest. And just as suddenly, she's falling in love with him.
"David Buehrle" wrote in message news:JiKxa.55443$[email]...
parenting
opinion
something
He
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I forgot to mention that the next step is for something else to happen that makes her angry at him, but finally he does something wonderful that makes her fall back in love (or infatuation--whatever) with him.
"res0vdhd" wrote in message news:...
The only interesting comment in this thread and your guess is as good as mine. The show has a track record for writing off its "cliffhanger" in the opener. Take another look at what they did to the ending of S3, S4, S5, and S8 and you sense a pattern. There wasn't any cliffhanger in ending S2 or S6 as far as I can remember.
I'm betting its going to be yet another predicable opener. Something along the lines of this.
The camera zooms out from the liplock; Joey and Rachel break away from the kiss and stare at each other, then Rachel says : "This is not right" or "I cannot do this" and Joey goes: "Damn, so close". :-)
Sonny Black
Christoph Paeper likes to play a special version of 'Hey Jude', with 25 minutes of 'na nananana' and an extra verse that goes like this:
Amen to that
Christoph Paeper wrote in message news:...
Just checking -- are you one of the people who said they'd never watch Friends again several times over the last few years?
Toward the end of the first season, Friends came in for a lot of bashing.
And it's always in the top ten or top five, so most of the poeple who say stuff like "this was the final Friends epidsode I watched" are still watching it.
*Thyme* :
I've not started watching Friends on a regular base since beginning of 2002, thus "for years" can't apply. I said I'd stop watching if they seriously raise the R&J story, namely a kiss. When it began in April with "TOW Rachel's Dream", only her remark "Definitely just physical!" kept me watching, as I hoped it would go away like a bad dream, or even turn out to be a restarter for R&R (people you dream about are not necessarily the ones your subconsciousness meant).
May be so, but I've only seen one episode on US-American television (IIRC 621 or 622, with Bruce Willis) and not many more on German tv. I'll rewatch older eps probably, but I'm not planning to watch anything of season 10--I never did this on purpose before to any show, so I can't say how successfull it'll be. If I'll hear from someone that it's incredibly funny, well-written and non-awkward anymore, I'll perhaps change my mind.
Season finale S P O I L E R R R R R S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S and I do mean S S S S S
I don't know. A couple of shows back, Ross went out of his way to talk up Joey when Ross wanted Charlie so bad. It wasn't the best thing for him to do tonight, but it seemed like her and Ross needed to be together.
It will have repercussions, and I wouldn't blame Joey a bit if he's p.o.ed at Ross. It should indeed be interesting!
I really like the Joey and Rachel thing..... as a storyline. I see it making for a number of good shows next season, bringing some real resolution to the Rachel/Joey story from last year. But I see the series ending with Ross & Rachel ultimately together. I see that as the most solid case of denial on television, among characters. These 2 never stopped being in love with each other, but just burried it too deep.
Comparing it to the master of star-crossed romantic tension comedy, Cheers, Ross and Rachel are Sam and Diane (except a better and more successful match ultimately), and Rachel and Joey more likely will mirror Sam and Rebecca 'doin' it' ('cept, in Joey's case, a 'How YOU doin'...it' ;o)) .Especially for how it came about tonight.
But then, I really thought it'd be Phoebe and David together, so what do I know? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------
"If there were more men like you, there'd be less men like you"
"...Because Buckwheat would've wanted it that way." ;-)
Spoiler . . . . . . . . . . . . Nope, R&R has been played to death....doesn't matter if she is the mother of his child. That isn't a good enough reason to be together. They tried it, remember? Didn't work then and it definitely won't work now!!! Rachel and Joey are made for each other!!!!! ~~~ Kathy
"Mibbitmaker" wrote in message news:[email]...
Joey
at
making
the
each
Cheers,
match
'doin'
how it
*Kathy* :
Actually the series was from the beginning planned to be about Rachel getting mature in general and her great love Ross in particular. Thus Ross and Rachel are made for each other, or at least were. Hadn't we had as many seasons as we do now, or if the creators knew about the number, everything would be Hugh Grant flick fine by now. That's what it should be like in a sitcom. If I wanted to see cheap drama, I would watch soap operas or Titanic like movies.
Mibbitmaker likes to play a special version of 'Hey Jude', with 25 minutes of 'na nananana' and an extra verse that goes like this:
yeah, what's up with that? Someone at BKC really doesn't like me :( Whenever Hank Azaria is on, he absolutely rules, I was so happy when I saw he'd be back and felt royally fucked when they released the news of that Mike Guy signing for another bunch of eps... And I'm not even upset about Joey and Rachel, I hope it'll *finally* close that stupid triangle book, one way or the other. The other things that really piss me of was how Ross at first said Charlie that it couldn't be because of Joey but cracked in the end and how Chandler went from being Chandler to Wussy Moron again.... S10 will be a waste of time, just like everything since S7 has been. There has been the occasional enjoyable episode, but most of it was plain awful
Andr�
"cookie dude" wrote in message news:...
I was hoping she'd end up with David, but then again, I am against the whole Joey/Rachel thing too. I hve a feeling in the premiere Ross will feel guilty and cool things off but Rachel and Joey will already have done the deed. Thsi will cause jealousy and ultimitely Ross/Rachel will wind up together.
spoiler . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes, Joey & Rachel forever!!!! This is THE WAY it was meant to be!!!!!!! ~~~ Kathy
"DominicanIndian" wrote in message news:[email]...
"friend"
Wow, you *sure* convinced me!!!! I was an R&R fan but now I am convinced that Joey & Rachel belong together forever!!!! ;)
"NjnTx" wrote in message news:OWYwa.1495$[email]...
be!!!!!!!
bit too soap opera in my opinion..but an ok storyline....
Ultimately it will be Ross and Rachel together.After all it was Joey who way back when gave Chandler the advice to break up with Janice because she had a child with her ex-husband and Chandler wouldn't want to be "that guy".......so it would at least be a continuity error otherwise.
"Halo" wrote in message news:0aZwa.4556$[email]...
a
"Mike Connor" wrote in message news:QBZwa.7069$[email]...
way
a
It's easy to say you shouldn't be "that guy" until you *are* that guy, and then you see things from a different perspective. Now that Joey is in love with a woman with a complicated life, I'm sure he sees that it's not so clear cut.
Kat
"NjnTx" wrote in message news:...
I've always wanted Ross to get Rachel. Ross is a geeky guy with a Ph.D. and no style with women. People think that he's boring because he likes science.
Yes, I could be talking about myself.
And, yes, Rachel isn't that kind of person. Who says, though, that the geeks of the world can't find happiness with the Beautiful People?
Well, somebody must have said it.
So, I'm all bummed out that Joey gets Ross's dream girl and Ross is stuck with the really, really hot, smart woman who appreciates him for his intelligence and can earn his respect for her intelligence.
Bummer!
In alt.tv.friends on Fri, 16 May 2003 at 02:11:15, DominicanIndian wrote :
Crap - along with the C&M infertility story, that makes two distinct directions that I wish the show hadn't gone! :(
Suffice to say that I can't look towards S10 with any real enthusiasm now.
it's so disgusting... seeing the ross/rachel/child history... i'm having a hard time not vomiting over this horrible event in friends history...
First of all:
Spoiler space, people!!! Don't ruin it for the people outside the US who haven't seen this yet (although I'm aware this is totally bolting the stable door after the horse is out)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Secondly ...
Maybe the Waltons or Little House on the Prairie would be more to your taste - I mean, c'mon, it's the 21st century, people who have children with one partner can never, ever, have another partner or love in their lives? If your feelings about personal relationships are that strong, I'm surprised you lasted this long watching Friends, since the very first episode dealt with a marriage involving a child breaking up, and had the wife starting a new life as a lesbian, to boot. If the J&R thing offends you this much, then surely that should too.
Caroline
Why is this so disgusting for you? Was C&M disgusting when they finally got together?? It is the inevitable end to the series, which IMO, is really the way it should be. R&R may have been OK together in the beginning, but they've both grown and matured in DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. The reconciliation attempts have been feudal. Let R&R go on to other relationships and be happy. ~~~ Kathy
"wb" wrote in message news:ba38g9$giu$[email]...
"wb" wrote in message news:ba38g9$giu$[email]...
The operative word here being "history". Let's review, shall we? Ross and Rachel get together, take a break, he cheats on her, they break up for good. Sort of. They try getting back together, it doesn't work out. Eventually they end up accidentally married, but don't stay together. They hook up one night and end up with a child together, but still can't make it work. See a pattern? Ross and Rachel are not right for each other - forget about the lobsters!
Why could they not make it work? Bottom line, they don't have enough in common. Rachel has never had an interest in Ross's work, which is so important to him. Just look at how happy he has been to have Charlie share this interest. He's practically been glowing when he's with her. Ross isn't into Rachel's career interests either, but she and Joey share the same love for the more shallow, pop culture, TV/fashion kind of life - look at how excited Rachel has been to be invited into his work world. Rachel and Joey share the same sense of humor and enjoy a laid back, fun-loving lifestyle. Ross is at his happiest when he finds someone who appreciates his intelligence and can share conversations on all of his cerebral interests. Ross fell in love with Rachel because she was beautiful, fun and unobtainable. Then he did obtain her and could not sustain a meaningful relationship with her. Rachel fell for Ross because he worshipped the ground she walked on, and she needed that boost of self-esteem at that point in her life. But when the going got tough and Ross stopped treating her like the center of the universe, they couldn't make it work. They may always care deeply for one another, but they are not compatible for a lifetime together.
Ross needs someone who understands his accomplishments and encourages even more. He has been like a kid in a candy store with Charlie, a beautiful woman who thinks he is brilliant and fun to be with, a woman who gets him. He hasn't given Rachel more than a friendly howdy since meeting Charlie. He still cares about her, but is not in love with her anymore.
Rachel is a confident woman now, who knows what she wants and goes for it. Joey is kind, loving, supportive of her and her baby, fun to be with, puts up with her quirks and is sexy as all heck - what's not to like? She doesn't need a man with a PhD to make her happy. She is not in love with Joey, but I bet she could fall quick. She will always care about Ross, but she is not in love with him anymore.
If you are the kind of person who needs a fairytale ending, I can see why you're unhappy with this turn of events. You never know, you may get such an ending yet through some miracle of sitcom shinanigans.
Being a realist myself, I don't see a plausible way of getting Ross and Rachel back together in a way that would convince me they can stick it out for 50 or more years. One or both of them would have to have a major personality change, and then they wouldn't be the characters I have grown to like so much. I have read many fanfics that have tried, and they don't ring even remotely true.
The Ross and Rachel of today are not the same people we met 9 years ago. They have matured and have different needs in a relationship now. The writers know what they are doing, and I'm going to enjoy seeing where they take all of these great characters.
Kat
Well said!!!!! ~~~ Kathy
"D&K Condron" wrote in message news:[email]...
and
good.
one
a
share
same
and
point
He
but
to
ring
Amen. May I copy and paste this in future discussions? ;)
"D&K Condron" wrote in message news:...
You put your finger on it. Ross and Rachel went south right after she got a real job. when she was a waitress at the coffee house, Ross was comforitable with her. When she had her own life, he wasn't.
And it wasn't Mark who was the problem. He wanted into Rachel's pants, but there was plenty of her just wanting to be sucessful and feel sucessful at her career - something Ross didn't know how to handle.
[email] (Thyme) wrote in message news:...
Yes I totally agree. When Rachel was the scared little girl running away from her fiancose and using her parents credit cards to buy shoes he wanted her. He fell in love with an image and he didn't want to wake up. Rachel wasn't a confident person when her and Ross started going out, she was a young waitress trying to make her way in the world when she finally did get a good job she gained confidence and she realized that Ross wasn't respecting her the way he was supposed to.
She was right you aren't supposed to bring a picnic basekt to somebody's work, and it was rude of Ross to fall asleep at Rachel's seminar. The Mark thing was just an excuse. Ross wanted the scared little girl Rachel and he wasnt' ready to have a relationship with the confident Rachel. Maybe Ross needed to be in a relationship with somebody who needed him so he could feel needed. Carol had dumped him and he was probably feeling very unneeded, and Rachel made him feel needed again. Again if Ross and Rachel were meant to be together how come they couldn't make it work, how come even after they decided to just be friends they couldn't live together with their child? How come when Rachel was in trouble she went back to Joey...Could it be because he was the one stable part in her life at the time. How can you trust somebody if they hide your messages? Ross and Rachel are better off as friends when they try to get together as a couple they start feelings of insecurity and jealousy and almost wreck everything.
Their friendship is stronger because of the trails they have been through, through it all they are still friends but they are not together. For the last half of season nine Rachel has been fixated on Joey and Ross on Charlie, they have not been thinking of getting together. As Joey said to Ross when they wer ein the emergencey room Ross will never be just anybody to Rachel. He will always be somebody special but I doubt that they can ever get together and make it work. Ross needs somebody who will accept his work as somethign important and can have an intelligent conversation with him. Charlie gives him that.
Rachel needs somebody to offer her stablity because now she has a child and she needs stablity. Joey has been in love once and that was with Rachel now maybe its their chance for happinesss .
[email] (DominicanIndian) wrote in message news:...
Joey and Charlie only dated briefly. Ross and rachel dated for a year and have a child together.
and made it 290 times ;-)
"Leslie" a �crit dans le message de news:[email]...
news:...
"friend"