Friends article about Joey and Rachel:

LOS ANGELES (Zap2it.com) - A few things about "Friends" are certain: Rachel will have her baby at the end of this season, during May sweeps. And the top-rated show will return for one final season, its ninth, in the fall.

Looking past that -- to the series finale in May 2003, for instance -- is something the show's creators haven't even done yet.

"I think the end will be on our minds as we begin next season," Marta Kauffman, who executive produces the series with Kevin Bright and David Crane says.

"Every year we say this is the one where we're going plan the whole thing out," Crane adds. "But then we never do." That looseness allows for storylines the writers didn't foresee to become part of the show, like Joey's (Matt LeBlanc) secret (until Thursday) crush on Rachel (Jennifer Aniston).

The Rachel-Joey story, which Kauffman calls one of many "happy accidents," wasn't part of the plan for this season, the executive producer trio says. But it's become a focus of "Friends" in recent weeks, an out-of-left-field development that has kept loyal viewers buzzing and helped keep the show at the top of the Nielsen ratings this season.

The three are tight-lipped about the resolution of the Joey-Rachel issue, further complicated by the fact that Rachel is pregnant with the child of her ex, Ross (David Schwimmer). They do say that some closure will come in the next few episodes.

Kauffman admits that the love triangle currently driving "Friends" has a soap-opera quality to it, but such storylines won't overwhelm the comedy. "I don't think suds is what we're going for," she says, "but once we got onto the Joey-Rachel story, we wanted to play it through to the end."

Crane does offer a few tidbits for the rest of this season. Alec Baldwin and James Le Gros will do guest stints as men in Phoebe's (Lisa Kudrow) life, and Rachel will indeed have her baby in the season finale.

"At the moment, there's talk about it maybe being the longest labor in the history of the hospital," he says.

As for the series finale, "We tend to do hour[-long] season finales, so my guess is the series finale will go an hour and five [minutes]," Kauffman jokes. "But there are no particular plans at the moment."

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I must admit, I found this article to be rather surprising in how little consideration they seem to take in making important plot choices. I really thought they had an idea throughout the shows early on this season they were planning a Joey/Rachel storyline for later on in the season, but apparently this is an idea that they literally started hours thinking of before filming it, without really any idea of where they wanted to go with it.

I'm a little concerned now that they don't even have an idea yet of a season finale cliffhanger, which I would have thought would have revolved around this Joey/Rachel/Ross triangle, and maybe it still will be. And I'm really concerned that they have now jumped into the fire without making sure they had some plan(s) to resolve the storyline, and this plot choice can be very dangerous if Ross or Joey gets hurt in this. That will alienate a large chunk of fans very quickly.

what j/r/r finale cliffhanger? we all know thats r is gonna dump j and the creators said there's gonna be closure on the subject in the next few episodes...its all becoming pretty clear

"Anonymous" wrote in message news:[email]...

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Subject: Re: Friends article about Joey and Rachel: From: "ChandlerGR" [email] Date: 2/27/2002 5:29 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: wrote

what j/r/r finale cliffhanger? we all know thats r is gonna dump j and the creators said there's gonna be closure on the subject in the next few episodes...its all becoming pretty clear

As much as I'd love to see the Joey/Rachael thing bomb, the closure thing they are referring to could be Ross and Rachaels feelings for each other. Personally, I hope it's Joey's feelings towards Rachael.

[email] (Anonymous) wrote in message news:...

Kauffman was quoted in the article as saying they wanted to play Rachel/Joey issue from start to the end and all three producers agree that some closure will come in the next few episodes. Therefore I doubt very much they jumped into the Rachel/Joey plot without thinking the end through. They would have alienated a large chunk of fans if they extended this plotline for too long and they will definitely alienate Ross and Rachel fans very quickly if they do decide on Rachel falling for Joey.

[email] (NARAG) wrote in message news:...

Having gone on record many times saying that they like the storyline, the producers aren't going to shelve this storyline by 817, remember they said only some closure would be brought. They will not alienate Ross and Rachel fans if they did Joey and Rachel in a tasteful manner, because Ross has shown no signs of interest this season in Rachel. If they do have Joey fall in love with Rachel, only to turn around and throw Ross and Rachel together again, then they will alienate viewers who are interested in this storyline, which is a large chunk.

"Anonymous" wrote in message > Having gone on record many times saying that they like the storyline,

You are suggesting that some folks will be alienated if Ross and Rachel get back together. I agree that some people will be disappointed. You are also saying that **nobody** will mind if Joey and Rachel get together and R&R becomes a dead idea. That I do not agree with. Some folks will feel they've been strung along for many years and left out to dry by a last minute switchout. Others will be alarmed by the moral statement about part-time parenthood, and still others will just think that was a rotten thing to do to Ross. Now, the producers, faced with a situation where they know they cannot please everyone, will decide to please themselves, and nobody knows what that means. But some folks *will* be unhappy if R&R are RIP after all these years of teasing. It's an artistic judgement call. We can only hope the writing quality remains sensitive and high.

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

Perhaps the reason for the producers' comments in the article was to drive home the message that they want to avoid a lead up to an unsavory situation where they could not please everyone without upsetting a significant group either way.

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

Actually, I never said nobody will mind. Unless you think Ross and Rachel fans are the entire group of fans of this show, then I can't help you there.

"Anonymous" wrote in message news:[email]...

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on

get

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No, Johnson, either you aren't reading my comments very carefully or you are deliberately reading things into them that aren't there. And you most certainly did say

You did in fact say that this could be done in a way that will avoid making any R&R fans angry. That's just not true. I am telling you that yes, they will alienate *some* people no matter what they do. In not one sentance of my post anywhere did I breathe so much as a hint that I thought "Ross and Rachel fans are the entire group of fans of the show", and I can't help wondering how you made the logic jump from me saying that a J&R pairing will upset some people to you asking if I think R&R fans are all that is out there. Now, to use your exact wording, if you think J&R fans are the entire group of fans on this show, then I can't help you. The spectrum is wide. That's why this is tricky for the writers.

An interesting story could be told either way.

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

Sigh...abrahammy PLEASE read!

I said Ross and Rachel fans wouldn't mind if Joey and Rachel was done tastefully.

You said this: "You are also saying that **nobody** will mind if Joey and Rachel get together and R&R becomes a dead idea. That I do not agree with."

Ok now. Read carefully what I said, then read what you said. I didn't say **nobody** will mind, did I?! There could be other groups, such as people for a Joey and Phoebe pairing, that would mind, but I did not include them. Therefore, I did NOT say **nobody** will mind.

You *assumed* I included everyone, but when in fact I only said R&R fans. Therefore, I made a sarcastic remark that you thought R&R fans were everyone. Understand now?

[email] (Anonymous) wrote in message news:...

It seems like an equal divide to me. So, whichever side they lean on, they would be risk losing the other side. But like Paul says, if they go with J&R and its done tastefully, the majority would like it (including some R&Rfans).

Priya

[email] (p r i y a) wrote in message news:...

[email] (NARAG) wrote in message news:...

he he. I wrote that. Nice work but just so you know, I don't belong to the "can't wait to see what happens, interesting to see how Rachel and Ross react" category. I haven't liked R&R since early Season 3 and I joined the J&R camp after hearing about the possibility here on ATF during the summer hiatus. When I wrote that message you've quoted, I was disappointed that Ross was the dad and was resigned to accept an R&R story, *if* it was done well. Mind you, this was before Joey entered the story. Even in 803, the sonogram scene was the only thing I liked. If they had kept Ross in the same character, then I wouldn't mind R&R so much. But they haven't and I've never liked the supposed *teasing* all these years. People can be swayed either way if the writing is good. I can quote examples where many R&R fans liked Joey and Rachel together in 812. As for the online opinion polls, the number of people who vote are so few in number (I haven't voted in any of them) and one can't assume that the results are the opinions of the 25+ million viewers who watch the show every week. They are just for fun. The ratings is what the network cares about. The people who tune in to see the new twist in the show are the ones who are adding to the ratings and BKC wouldn't want to lose that group of viewers by wrapping this up in any predictable way.

Priya

[email] (p r i y a) wrote in message news:...

Sniff :( Fair enough and we'll be in opposite camps then. :-)

I agree they looked good together and funny at the dinner table and at their apartment later that night. It was a date between 2 good friends and being roomies for some time now it was nice and refreshing to see then have an evening out together. I did watch that episode several times but I don't think I would have enjoyed it or felt comfortable if they threw their arms around each other and started smooching. I'm an old fashioned guy and would never look at my best friend's ex-girlfriend/wife in a romantic light let alone if she were pregnant.

What's important in stats is representation, not the size of the sample. You don't need to drink an entire pot of soup to know what's in it but a single scoop if its properly mixed beforehand is deemed sufficient.

I do hope the quality of writing remains high and sensitive. Having said that ratings do climb where there is a new twist to the plot, but its difficult to prolong the suspense and once the climax is reached the ratings goes back down until another twist comes up. Its easier to do that on a show like x-files where anything and everything is possible including alien abduction vis-�-vis Friends where you are limited by comedy and a sense of reality.

[email] (NARAG) wrote in message news:...

Nothing with that. May the best man win. :)

Well, I'm not too sure the soup was properly mixed beforehand. :)

How realistic are Ross's three divorces? Anyway, they couldn't prolong the suspense after TOW Prom Video. Ross and Rachel are together. Oh what do we do, what do we do? Make them fight. Split them up. Now what do we do? Make her jealous. Make him mental. Okay, now what do we do? Get them drunk and married. and then? oooh, a divorce!

We've had more than enough with that story. I say, end it. Maybe the writers just want R&R to raise a baby together (but not be together) just to appease the R&R fans who waited *eight* years.

Priya

[email] (p r i y a) wrote in message news:...

Maybe the writers aren't as creative as they make themselves out to be. However, Ross and Rachel have provided the climax at the end of seasons 1,3-5 and 7 including several fine moments in between. But since season 9's the final I'm pretty sure they'll be able to work out a definitive storyline for Ross and Rachel. That may very well be the challenge for the writers cause I don't think the solution will be to recycle what you've described above with Rachel and Joey now that we've seen 816. Its too easy, predictable and lazy and not especially in the last and final season.

[email] (NARAG) wrote in message news:...

Ok, first off, the cliffhanger in season 7 had nothing to do with Ross at the time, it was all about Rachel being pregnant. You could say it now after the fact that it had to do with Ross and Rachel, but the producers recently said that they decided on the father over the summer break, so the cliffhanger really had nothing to do with the prospective father.

So is any relationship story with Joey and Rachel going to feel like a recycled story of Ross and Rachel to you? I think if anything, Joey is going to be more like Chandler in the relationship since he has never been in a serious adult relationship. There are loads of stories to tell for his personality trying to deal with that, just like there were for Chandler, but for much different reasons.

And you talk about a Joey/Rachel relationship being predictable and lazy, my God what is a Ross and Rachel wedding in the finale supposed to be? That is something anyone can see coming from miles away! I tend to agree with priya, Ross and Rachel raising a baby is going to be enough of a closure for fans for that couple that they won't be obligated to put them together in the end. Having Rachel move back into Joey's apartment, and having him deal with a baby and being in an adult relationship for the first time would provide a lot of funny material for the 9th season. And that's the bottom line for these writers, what situations would provide the most comic material.

[email] (Anonymous) wrote in message news:...

Okay, I’ll give you the season 7 cliffhanger.

‘fraid so. Joey will be going where Ross has gone before. No pun intended.

I’m sure there are plenty of stories to capture the imagination of viewers but there’s only one final season with the producers having to wrap the series up. There’s Monica/Chandler and Phoebe whom fans would want to see a bit more and can’t be ignored. For a Joey/Rachel pairing to even remotely stick a lot of time needs to be invested in the build up first. Personally I felt that Joey’s crush and telling Rachel was beaten over our heads. Can the writers afford to devote season nine to a Joey/Rachel plot?

I doubt there is going to be a Ross and Rachel wedding next season cause I can’t see them squeezing this in. It would be nice though… for the RnR fans, that is.  But I’m very sure they’ll end up together though.

I can’t see how Ross and Rachel are going to raise a baby with Joey in the middle. Also I don’t think the final season is going to be about seeing Joey in an adult relationship for the first time. The finale and the episodes leading to it is going to be about 6 friends and the friendship they share before going their separate ways. Ross may not end up with Rachel and his baby in the end but the odds for Joey/Rachel pairing is remote, as it’s a significant deviation

[email] (NARAG) wrote in message news:...

As you've had said before, that is a baseless statement. There are an infinite amount of storylines that can be written about the human relationship, and yet you have already judged it to being a derivative of another one.

It was only "beaten over your head" if you didn't like or care to see the relationship in the first place...

And your argument that Monica/Chandler and Phoebe should get more screen time doesn't work with your defense of Ross and Rachel, because M&C and P would get as little of screen time if R&R got back together, as if they would if Joey and Rachel got together.

And to answer your question, yes they can devote a large amount of season 9 to a Joey/Rachel relationship as ONE of the subplots of the show. They don't need 24 episodes to plan to say goodbye. And if they plan to end the show with Joey and Rachel together, which many of us are now rooting for, then they need to develop the relationship in order to properly send them off.

You can't see two male characters on this show raising a baby? Have you never heard of stepfathers before? I think that situation right there provides for a lot of funny material.

The finale and maybe a few episodes before that will lead to the end. You can not point to one sitcom in it's final year that had every single episode devoted to them saying goodbye. Most of season 9 will be like normal seasons, except there may be various mentions of events that they may leave on in the end.

Anonymous wrote:

<several posts defending the idea of JnR as a permanent couple>

Anon, you do a good job defending your POV, so this is not a criticism or an attack. Rather, it's more along the lines of a comment.

The writers and producers will do what they want to do. MAYBE they'll decide that Joey and Rachel belong together forever, and MAYBE they'll decide to reunite Ross and Rachel. It's far too early to say.

One can read oceans of tea leaves trying to figure out which is more likely, but the bottom line is that we just don't know. It could go either way, or neither way. So, what the discussion comes down to is arguing in favor of what we want to happen, not what we know will happen for any reason except, at this point, wishful thinking. (Yeah, I do it, too ...)

The thing is that, despite all his problems and foibles, and despite Mental Geller, there are many of us who like Ross and want him to end the series happily. Up to now, we have been given absolutely no reason to believe that this can happen without his being with Rachel.

I think this is the point that I and others have tried to make: As things stand right now, your solution leaves no visible route to a happy ending for Ross, and therefore I don't like it. You feel differently, which is entirely your right; but no amount of logical argument from you will change my mind, any more than I'm going to change yours. We each see what we want to see. For example, you think it's a happy solution if Ross' daughter lives with someone else as long as he sees her regularly. I don't see that as a happy solution because, once again, Ross (who is clearly a loving and devoted father and would certainly WANT to be living with his children full time if he could) gets the short end of the stick ... among other reasons.

Don't get me wrong -- it's fun to speculate. My point is just that we are all espousing theories of the series ending based 99% on what we want to happen; and, since we want different things, we are probably not going to convince each other. Not that it isn't fun to try ...

Cheers,

Rollie

[email] (Essex9999) wrote in message news:...

Thanks, and you do a good job too while being sensitive to the other POV. I'm trying to be more sensitive to the other side as well.

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying. They will do what they want, which is why I can't understand people taking what happened in last Thursday's episode and calling the rest of the storyline out.

And so do I.

Lately, he hasn't even been happy being around Rachel. I don't think Rachel controls his thoughts and emotions like she may once have. If Ross was still in love with Rachel, and he didn't end up with her, then I can see your point.

You don't think Ross will be happy if he ends up being with someone else; well you can make the exact same argument for Joey. Having Rachel go back to Ross without returning Joey's love is a terrible conclusion for Joey. The ONLY person he's ever fallen in love with decided that she doesn't love him in "that way"...yet. At least Ross had his shot(s).

We each see what we want to see. For example,

I think Ross having to walk across the street to see his daughter is a much, much shorter stick, if you will, than Joey never having a relationship with a close friend that he loves. The R&R fans typically are downplaying the impact of what Joey's "love" is, which sadly is a product of stereotyping that dumb people can't love as well, and closed-mindness that people can't change. I think Joey's transition from dumb comic relief to sweet friend to love interest has been very gradual this season. I know the resistance has less to do with Joey than with Ross and Rachel never getting back together, but no one ever will know if Joey and Rachel makes a better couple unless they try.

It is fun to try. I would be the first though to admit it if it looked like that the couple I was backing weren't going to get together. That doesn't mean I'm not a fan of them, but that I have enough common sense to know when it's not going to go my way.

I think it's fair to say Rachel's pregnancy and Joey/Rachel have driven the show this season. This season has been the most successful in the show's history. One storyline, by forces of nature, is going to end this year. I would like to think that even ardent R&R fans can put 2 and 2 together on what they are going to do with the other storyline when there is, more importantly, the producers' liking of the storyline, and less importantly, an increase in ratings and critical praise of the show since the storyline began.

I just can't see Rachel with any of the Friends. Something about her personality makes me think she would be the most likely to want to end up with someone outside the group. I think she'd end up with a somewhat older, already well-established and (at least somewhat) wealthy guy.

Steve Simon

[email] (Steve A Simon) wrote in message news:...

Well that somewhat older, well established wealthy guy turned out to be a crybaby. So, she dumped him. :)

Priya

I just want to say that the thought of RnR makes me cringe. I never really liked them as a couple. I just don't hink they are right for each other. I also think that a lot of the RnR fans (I am not saying you) are afraid of change. I like the idea of RnJ, but I like the idea of anyone but RnR. I just can't stand them together. i think they bring out the worst in each other.

"NARAG" wrote in message news:[email]...

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"Amy and Dave" wrote in message news:...

This is a baseless statement. Attempting to put a seemingly rational spin but a spin nevertheless without any basis whatsoever on why there are so many RnR fans is in poor taste.

"NARAG" wrote in message news:[email]...

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really

of

I am sorry, but I couldn't find any other explanation for people still wanting them to be together. They are awful as a couple. They just bring out the worst in each other.

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"Amy and Dave" wrote in message news:0F9g8.29726$[email]...

I'll give my own explanation. It's not fear of change. I just think that the 2 of them have a very intriguing chemistry when they're together. I can actually enjoy both characters when they're a couple. No mental Geller, no stupid stories. When these 2 are together they light up the screen. Forget the jealousy stuff. It was put there as a reason to break them up. And all the crap afterwards was put there to keep them apart. When the writers had them together, they took more care to write their stories. After all these years of Ross being degraded and left out to dry, I would like to see him redeem himself and become a real person again and worthy as a partner to Rachel and a dad to their daughter.

"Laurie" wrote in message news:zcag8.16698$[email]...

other.

afraid

Well, you know, that might be one reason why some people felt this way. It surely is not the only reason, and to categorize ALL R&R fans in this way is incorrect. There are lots of different reasons to be for or against R&R.

out

Well, actually, they were just fine until their story got stale and the writers had to break them up. Then R&R became a sure fix for excitement during sweeps months, so they kept doing outrageous, contrived things to them to grab attention - but the writers wouldn't allow any of the character's decisions to have any permanent consequences. This baby marks the first deviation from that in a long time.

Ross and Rachel bring out the worst in each other when the writers want to shock us. If they decide this is the couple they want to have at the end, they will need to write, and will be able to write, scenes of healing, probably connected with the baby.

Tennant once suggested that I was really more of a Ross fan than I was a Ross and Rachel fan. You know, he's right. I am not a fan of Mental Geller. I can't stand that irresponsible fool, but they are so far opposed they almost don't seem like the same person. Mental Geller was not in 816 at all - not for one second - and I really enjoyed watching Ross. I want Ross to be the permanent character.

When Ross began with Emily, I tried to support that. It blew up. When Ross began with Mona, I tried to support that. It blew up. Both times, the dynamite was Rachel. Her presence in the world prevents him from having any chance at any kind of happiness with anybody. Ever. Unless they heal themselves.

I am just not willing to watch an ending where Joey and Rachel take Ross' daughter and waltz off into the sunset while Ross sits in a corner and tries to pick up girls by telling them how gas has no smell. One of the biggest arguments about how this affects Ross is simply that he doesn't deserve to be happy, and his fate is unimportant. He's just a side annoyance. I can't buy it.

Another thing: NBC is reportedly trying to create a spinoff with Joey as the main character, trying to make it in Hollywood. Alone. Aniston will not be in this show. If these rumors are true, Joey and Rachel will not be together at the end.

abrahammy wrote:

Yep. The writers have sent that message, loud and clear, many times, and continue to do so. They have, in a sense, written themselves into a corner on this issue.

In total agreement. I hope the series ends with happiness for everybody, and, as I said elsewhere, we have been hit over the head with the idea that happiness for Ross = happy relationship, and so far the only prospect of that is with Rachel.

Very good point. Very good post generally. Thanks.

--Rollie

"abrahammy" wrote :

Should this really surprise anyone? As I've mentioned before BKC *know* the potential of R&R and the interest the couple generate. R&R have really been the cornerstone of Friends and the baby adds another dimension to their relationship. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

Not gonna happen. First, it'll be extremely insensitive of BKC to have an ending like that. Rachel will have the baby and while I have my doubts on whether Rachel ends up with Ross, I'm very sure she wouldn't end up with Joey.

Despite the fact you said that season nine's a wildcard, this is way too much to work into the final season to even be remotely convincing and a 180 deg turn around angering many fans.

Joey's crush on Rachel has already come off as hollow, forced, contrived, annoying, depressing and unbelivable. Poor build-up compounded to the problem. The plot rode on an interesting and light hearted date they shared in 812, dragged through 813 to 815 and fell miserably in 816. All Joey did was go on and on about how much he loves Rachel. Do we need to see more?

"NARAG" wrote in message news:[email]...

Johnson's counter argument is that not putting Joey and Rachel together will alienate fans. Face it, somebody's gonna be disappointed, so the producers will suit themselves. E Online, however, is reporting that there are plans to write Joey a spinoff. Jennifer Aniston is done with TV for awhile, so LeBlanc will do it alone - and if this pans out, well, no, Joey and Rachel almost certainly will not happen.

Blink. Well, I gotta say, I thought it worked better as a short-term story than you did. Blink. And I didn't even see 812. (Survivor problems. Long story involving Compromise in Marriage.) Fell miserably? I thought 816 was a very good episode, though it wasn't very funny. (Did not care for the subplot. Phoebe can be absolutely poisonous to Chandler. I'm not even a Chandler/Monica fan and I spent the whole time wrinkling my nose.)

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

Its only a rumor at this point and a spinoff if one does take off will be on the fall of 2003 earliest. Even if MLB agrees to it, I doubt it would have any bearing on how Friends ends. They could have him walking off into the sunset with Rachel and the baby if they wanted to and explain it all away in a spinoff.

But knowing the peacock its likely that they will try and tempt one or more Friends stars to stick around for a spinoff. They've tried it with Seinfeld's Kramer who turned them down. Julia Louis-Dreyfus after a hiatus seems to be having some success on "Watching Ellie" though its too premature to tell.

I would think doing a spinoff with Gunther might be a better idea as we hardly know much about his character except he likes Rachel and works in Central Perk. Joey is one of the main characters who's story we have seen unfold over the years so I'm not sure how far they can go with the spinoff and keep the audience interested. Contrast Kelsey Grammer, who used to sit at the bar most of the time, hardly anything was made known about him on Cheers but became immensely popular in the spinoff Fraiser.

[email] (NARAG) wrote in message news:...

FYI, he didn't turn them down. He did that Michael Richards show that was cancelled after 8 weeks.

Yikes, do you really see James Michael Tyler and Kelsey Grammer on the same level.

Priya

James Michael Tyler is actually a very underrated comedic actor. He doesn't get many choice scenes but when he does, he knocks them out of the park.

Dan

"p r i y a" wrote in message news:[email]...

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"Dan Silverstein" wrote in message news:...

oh, okay, I haven't seen him in anything outside of Friends.

Priya

[email] (p r i y a) wrote in message news:...

It'll be interesting to see how long a Matt Le Blanc spinoff lasts. With the current level of competition or lack of, it'll be about a season.

That wasn't my point but since you brought this up...we don't get to see much of James Michael Tyler unfortunately, but he's a much better actor than MLB.

[email] (NARAG) wrote in message news:...

Didn't this article from which this thread originated have Marta saying how much they liked the Joey/Rachel storyline? Yes, the writers *know* the potential of R&R, but they *now know* the potential of J&R can even be greater than that.

Well, Joey was pretty much a side annoyance for the first few seasons of the show, and now Ross is stepping in and taking his place. You may not like it, but someone has to be butt of the joke now that the writers have elevated Joey's status to that of a main love interest. Joey will still be Joey when he gets together with Rachel, but it will be on much more mature level. So Ross has stepped in and done a good job in Joey's place.

It's not insensitive if the writers make Ross happy with it. Which they can do by the way. They could anything conceivable to these characters that they want. They are not going to say "Hmmm, we can't have the nice fake Joey walk off with the nice fake Rachel into the sunset because fake Ross might be upset with that."

They've already had in the span of 5 episodes: Have Joey fall in love with Rachel, have Rachel move out of Joey's apartment, have Joey tell Phoebe, Monica and Chandler, have Joey confess his feelings to Ross, and have Joey tell Rachel and have her reject him. This storyline is moving along a much swifter and more believable pace than the R&R relationship did. It may only take a couple of episodes now for Rachel to return Joey's love, and then you've got the 9th season for the relationship.

I'm sorry, the Coke I was drinking flew out of my nose when I read this. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't see how many could seriously agree with that paragraph of statements.

"abrahammy" wrote in message news:...

First of all, it has become very clear over the last couple of weeks that most of the fans of the show have split up into two "camps"; one supporting Ross & Rachel, and one supporting Joey & Rachel. The writers will therefore have a very difficult job pleasing everybody; in fact, it seems literally impossible to make everybody happy at this point. RnR-fans claim that history should come first, while JnR-fans prefer the unknown. I have really enjoyed watching Joey mature and grow into a potential love interest this season, but I'm starting to believe that the maturing process itself may have been this story's main goal for the writers.

No matter how this will end, one of the parts in question will get hurt. Discussing who will get most hurt is very subjective and won't help the situation, so I'm not getting into that, but to me it seems that regardless of what alternative the writers opt for, the friendships on the show will be affected. What will make me unhappy with the show is if this story turns into a plot where one or two of the friends "lift out" of the group.

The friendships between Joey & Rachel and Joey & Ross were two of the best plotlines in the last two seasons. Personally, I thought Joey and Rachel were fabulous together when they were roommates, and if there's anything I miss on the show these days, it's that dynamic. In many ways they were the new "Joey & Chandler" since those stories obviously aren't happening anymore. If Joey, Rachel and Ross start acting awkward around each other because of Joey's feelings, it will affect the group, and I don't think that's the way to go this late in the season.

I don't believe any of the couples will get together this season. If anything romantic is supposed to happen between Rachel and one of the single, male characters on the show, it won't happen until next season. Having said that, I don't think we should automatically assume that Rachel gets together with any of them (regardless of how many RnR hints we get). Rachel isn't a trophy Joey and Ross should fight over; Rachel is old enough to make her own decisions, and I'm afraid choosing a husband isn't among her top priorities right now. The child she's carrying is #1 on her list, and it should be that way.

"Marita Bakken" wrote in message news:[email]...

Yeah, but still, I thought the last three episodes (that I've actually seen) have been good ones, even though I'm in the R&R camp. Joey isn't going to STAY this mopey, but it was logical, and boy, it got our attention! I thought 816 was very good. Not the best of the best, but quite admirable.

Not a chance. Somebody's gonna be disappointed. Actually, a lot of people are. Not only do we have the R&R camp and the R&J camp, we have the Couples Suck camp.

RnR-fans claim that history should come first, while JnR-fans

Well, I'd agree with you here, but of course my agreement is predictable. I thought that was the point two episodes ago.

So the question is...how do they avoid that?

Which is a shame. Good comments, by the way.

Is there any way to avoid that if Rachel and Joey become a couple? (Or R&R too, I realize that.)

Agreed. Too much time left.

Yes, I agree with that too, and have said so. One of the points of this season was that Rachel didn't *need* a man - just any old man - to get her through this. She is living with Ross for his convenience, not hers.

Amen.

[email] (Marita Bakken) wrote in message news:...

See, I tend to disagree here for two reasons.

1. The cliffhanger for the 8th season has got to be something major to entice the viewers to buzz about it over the summer break. Nothing Monica and Chandler can do, short of one of them cheating on the other, is going to elicit any buzz. Phoebe's chances of getting some major bombshell dropped on her are slim to none. Rachel is going to have her baby in the season finale, so there can be no cliffhanger there. I think the only interesting cliffhanger involves Rachel making her choice in the season finale, but we won't know until the next season.

2. The importance of the baby's welfare isn't going to register with the majority of Friends viewers because most are teens to young adults, and it is an unrelatable experience to most of them. People are naturally going to be more invested in love interests of characters they have watched for 8 years, than what the welfare of a new television baby is. I mean, the show is going to be off the air just as the baby is learning to walk, so I don't think these domestic issues of custody and the like will rear it's head at this age, or affect the relationships of the characters. If Rachel wants to pursue Joey or Ross soon after she has the baby, then what's to stop her? There's no set time limit on that in Televisionland.

[email] (Anonymous) wrote in message news:...

I wonder how many fans saw Rachel&#8217;s pregnancy coming in the season 7 finale? Wasn&#8217;t that finale supposed to be Monica and Chandler&#8217;s big day?

We might not see much of the baby next season but it will be interesting to see how Rachel sets her priorities one the baby's born.

We are working on the assumption that Rachel&#8217;s going to want to find a mate next season yes? Any possibility that the writers might not do a Rachel/Joey plot in the final season?

I wouldn't worry too much. They have kept this show fresh and exciting even after 7 1/2 years. Every time things seem to be getting routine and stale they throw a new twist into the story that makes the show worth watching all over again. Regardless of what inferences you draw from this article, one thing is clear:

THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

"Friends" has been the best sitcom on television for six of the last seven seasons (I'll give "Seinfeld" props for its final season) and I'm confident that the storylines will all be resolved to the fans' satisfaction at the end of next year.

What we really need to worry about is: What the hell are we going to watch when it's all over?

Dan

"Anonymous" wrote in message news:[email]...

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I realize that I may be in the minority here but..........I really REALLY did want to see Rachel and Joey get together......

Joey has "evolved" over the years and he is now "ready" for a serious relationship..... To his surprise, his feelings are directed toward the very pregnant Rachel.....

Joey, so uncharacteristically, is willing to "step up" and be a stepfather to Rachel's baby...... He finally realizes that he LOVES her........and there is absoluted NOTHING else that would be "acceptable" to him..........

I realize that next year will be the last year.........please oh please allow for Joey and Rachel to get together..........

Cassie