I was watching some episodes from season 4 the other day, when it occurred to me that the "Mondler" phenomenon isn't just something we've seen in season 6.
Do you guys remember the episode (418 The One With Rachel's New Dress) when Phoebe decides she wants to name one of the triplets after one of her friends, i.e. Chandler and Joey? I think Chandler's attempts to win in this episode could classify under the "Mondler" obsessive-category, even though he wasn't seeing Monica at the time.
Maybe we have seen other Mondler-incidents in the past seasons? Just a thought... :)
~Ariel
"Money isn't everything, but it's right up there with oxygen"
I bet you're right! Because you tend not to notice things when you dont pay attenchine to them..or dont think about it. I'll have to go back through some older episodes..or look out for it when i see repeats.. Just to be sure. ~Act
There have been *many* Mondler incidents, Ariel, in fact there are whole websites devoted to listing them. I won't recommend any, since they all go too far by including mere friendlinesses.
The first on my list is at 11:46 in 102 "TOW the Sonogram at the End". The most typical occurrence is Mondler squashed into one chair, while there is plenty of room on the sofa. But the incident that made everyone take notice was the famous "I want a baby" scene in 123 "TOW the Birth".
Ya I remember seeing that a few weeks ago..when I wasnt even thinking about the Mondler thing.. I saw them both in that one small chair that Chandler and Joey had faught over and then more than half the couch was empty.
But the incident that made everyone take notice
ohh and there are many that this web site missed... ~Act
Mondler is the character that Chandler has become since he began to date Monica, the competitive, obsessive-compulsive. (don't get me wrong, she's my fave!)
The name came from ep 6.07 TOw Phoebe runs, where Chandler was cleaning the apartment, and Ross came in, saw him and called him Mondler.
There is more, but I know you don't wanna be spoiled.
What Ariel and others are speculating is that Mondler has actually appeared before Chandler and Monica started dating.
FYI... :)
Shaz "Turkey's burnt, potatoes are ruined, potatoes are ruined, potatoes are ruined." http://zap.to/ERweb (ER Multimedia) http://members.xoom.com/shaz915/ERcreative/FAQ http://members.xoom.com/shaz915/GellerBing http://members.xoom.com/FriendsQuote
"Mondler" has become associated with C&M fans who are Mondlerians, while R&R fans are Roschelians, and fans of both couples are Mondleroschelians. However, I've let this take me too far by referring to Monica & Chandler (especially before the character changes of Season 6) as Mondler.
But don't you agree that Chandler & Monica are very good for each other?
I agree that they *should* be. I do not agree that they are. In season six, their romance has made Monica into a domineering nag and it has made Chandler into a spineless, simpering weakling who makes Ross seem assertive. It is not the fault of the *idea* of the romance, but the execution is not as good as it should be.
Mondler began to emerge a little bit in season five, and really took hold this year. Mondler, like Red Ross, is a new character that has taken the place of more interesting and three dimensional characters that were originally created by Crane and Kauffman. You may see Chandler and Monica, those two charming characters, interacting in a tender way in older episodes, but that's not Mondler.
Monica is not as bad as you're making out - she's a bit like that but Chandler likes it, as his speech in 612 (no spoiler) makes clear. Monica has become screechy in S6, but she's always been assertive. Chandler has never looked happier or more relaxed, unusual in a naggee.
I'm the first to agree that we have lost 1/3rd of the old Chandler and 2/3rds of the old Monica but there's no good reason for it, it's certainly not due to their relationship. Chandler may not need humour as a defence mechanism any more, but since he's learnt to be witty he ought to carry on being so. Monica should be the same as she was in Season 5.
No argument there. It was not necessary to change the characters; for some strange reason, they just did. (I guess they were so happy with the resounding success of Red Ross, whom they apparently think went over well with "ordinary" viewers, that they decided to create Red Monica.) But again, as I've said, it isn't the idea of the romance that is a problem. It seems to be that this particular batch of people really don't enjoy writing romance and don't do it well. Ross and Rachel were interesting during the first phase of the chase. After that hook was over, they began to bore some people and the writers couldn't think up any new ideas for them, so here comes Chloe. Chandler and Monica were interesting during the Secret hook, but now they are boring (or downright annoying) some people.
Actually, if you think of it from a technical point of view, Chandler and Monica haven't really lasted longer than R&R. At least, not yet.
The hook period for C&M was not their secret affair, but a few scenes in 424 "TOW Ross's Wedding (part 2)". If anyone wants to argue that earlier episodes should be included in the hook, I'll be fairly easy about that.
C&M have been in stage 2 since they returned to NY in 501 "TOA Ross Says Rachel". The story of R&R has been going on for many years, but that's not what Mondlerians mean when we claim C&M have lasted longer. We are talking about romantic togetherness: no secret longings, no bitchy breakup. I don't know how they're doing in the USA, but in Britain we're up to episode 612, where C&M have been together for 36 episodes, twice as long as R&R.
BTW, I'd have thought the title for 501 would be "TOA Ross SAID Rachel", but that's not what Darcy Partridge or http://epguides.com/ have. Anybody know?
Yes, it was, Tennant. It was the suspenseful gimmick that gave their
story tension. The hook has *nothing* to do with how far along they
were in their romance. I am speaking of the function it served the
show. This is about the way they built the story arc, not the status
of the love affair. Each hook left a big question that everybody
wanted the answer to:
Will Ross and Rachel get together, and how? Will the others find out about Chandler and Monica, and how?
Both led to a huge payoff February sweeps episode: TOW the Prom Video Vs. TOW Everybody Finds Out.
That is what I mean by hook. Not the initial courting stages of the relationship.
No, they haven't. This is not about them being romantically hooked to each other. This is about them having a conflict - keeping it from the others - that took months to resolve. It is a structural analysis, not a romantic one. In each case, people thought the hook part of the story was interesting, and folks only really began to call for a breakup when they got settled and they began to be perceived as dull.
The story of R&R has been going on for many years, but that's not
No, it's clear what *you* mean. They've been a couple for two years. You misunderstand what I mean. The C&M STORYLINE has *structural* parallels to the R&R STORYLINE.
Hook. (The chase, the secret) Settling, which leads to boredom. (R&R as a happy couple, Chandler and Monica out in the open.) Winding down/shakeup. (R&R breakup. It sounds like C&M will have some kind of shakeup in the finale. We do not yet know exactly what is going to happen.)
Ross and Rachel had a shorter actual romance because their hook did not include actually being together; through a very clever bit of plot manipulation, Chandler and Monica's hook did. Now, like R&R before them, C&M have come to close to the end of a settling period that has become tedious, and are due for a substantial change. Spoilers indicate that something that will change them somehow is about to happen. (Calm down, Tennent, I didn't say they were breaking up. I don't know exactly how what we know will affect what will happen.)
Fair enough. I take it that what you are disagreeing with is this: The C&M story is not structured to have a gimmick that causes tension, a resolution of that tension, followed by a period of little conflict. Followed, as I strongly suspect, by a period where a new tension comes up that will either end the storyline or take it off in a new direction. We'll see.
But I'm under the impression that the Roschelians think that Mondlerians are completely Anti-Roschelian.... and if that's the case, I'm not simply a Mondlerian.
Tell me I'm wrong... :)
Shaz "Turkey's burnt, potatoes are ruined, potatoes are ruined, potatoes are ruined." http://zap.to/ERweb (ER Multimedia) http://members.xoom.com/shaz915/ERcreative/FAQ http://members.xoom.com/shaz915/GellerBing http://members.xoom.com/FriendsQuote
Well Sharon, you are asking me to judge what Sharon thinks of the way the Roschelians think of what the Mondlerians think of the Roschelians.
All I can say is that Tennant thinks that some people resent those who disagree with them, whilst other people just express their preferences while being happy for everyone else to do the same.
me neither.. I'm not a mondlerian because I am not anti-roschelian, I am just not bothered about it, I actually think that it may be better for the show if they got back together one day.. but not some tacky little ending.. it needs to be given a proper amount of time.. and with the finale only left to film.. I believe it's just not enough.. and any Ross and Rachel fans need their couple to be given time to rediscover their true feelings so we should all be saying "roll on *and pray for* season 7 "
Why must everyone assume taht Mondlerian's are against Roschelians. We disagree but that doesnt mean that I dont like the Roschelians or dont like them together..or think that they should never get together. ~Act
On 03 Apr 2000 12:09:10 GMT, [email] (TOW Shaz) wrote:
Exactly! :)
We've been discussing the romance between Chandler and Monica and the signs for that in the past.
What I was talking about was the "Mondler" thing. You know, to find out if we should blame Monica for Chandler's supposedly "obsessive" behaviour (however, I still think he's the funniest character on the show), or if it has been there for a long time already...
~Ariel
"Money isn't everything, but it's right up there with oxygen"
I wouldnt have called this a Mondler insidant because Chandler was simply doing something nice for Monica not actually becoming her. He was doing her a favor..this is different..
and Ross came in, saw him and called him Mondler.
Phew That's what I thought u guys were talking about in the first place..Tennant confused me a bit. Ahh but we do know that chandler and Joey can be very competitive against each other! Ok I'm going to keep my eyes peeled *owww* when i watch the repeats. ~Act
It was a Mondler incident because Ross commented that 'couples who live together *do* start to act the same'. That's probably not perfect, but close enough. So, yes, Chandler WAS acting like Monica, because he was in the middle of cleaning the entire apartment... hence.. Mondler. (and NO comments about me saying hence<g>)
Shaz "Turkey's burnt, potatoes are ruined, potatoes are ruined, potatoes are ruined." http://zap.to/ERweb (ER Multimedia) http://members.xoom.com/shaz915/ERcreative/FAQ http://members.xoom.com/shaz915/GellerBing http://members.xoom.com/FriendsQuote
But my point is that he doesnt do it because he likes to clean or because he is obbsessive about it..which is how monica is. He just looked like Monica that doesnt mean that he was acting like her he had a different intent than Monica would have. THerefore its not Mondler. ~Act
OK... the reason I pointed out that scene is because that's where the NAME started. Ross came out with Mondler after seeing Chandler cleaning. That's all. I'm not saying it's an incident where Chandler was obsessive or competitive... I'm saying he was like Monica because he was cleaning...period.
Shaz "Turkey's burnt, potatoes are ruined, potatoes are ruined, potatoes are ruined." http://zap.to/ERweb (ER Multimedia) http://members.xoom.com/shaz915/ERcreative/FAQ http://members.xoom.com/shaz915/GellerBing http://members.xoom.com/FriendsQuote
Sorry for sidetracking your topic Ariel, I misunderstood.
I don't think that Chandler was Monica-obsessive in 418, but he could be accused of being Monica-competitive. I wondered at the time that there was something rather female about the psychological methods he used to win the baby's name, but I put it down to the teleplay being written by two women: Jill Condon & Amy Toomin, (from a story by Andrew Reich & Ted Cohen).
I would have thought that of the men, Ross was the most obsessive.