OK, feeling a little out of place here

The whole "'Daria' -- should it be studied in school, along with other commerical, non-'academic'-type stuff?" thread has made me realize something...

I am _so_ out of place.

Am I the only person here in this group who happened to HATE English class? I can't stand the fact that I'm being forced to do advanced comp. this semester, because I just want to get over and done with ALL English.

I don't even want to read very many authors anymore. I feel like this -- when I'm reading something that could very well be studied in high school, that it needs to be analyzed over and over and over again, paying close attention to the climaxes and denuements (sp?) and whatnot as well as the tone, syntax, diction, etc., etc., etc.

And you know what the sick thing is? I probably should thank those classes for introducing me to some authors who I like to read now. Because otherwise I would've probably breezed right past them.

But still...I don't really read much literature these days (other than the stuff I'm compelled to read for a class). I don't know -- I just can't get into being like that. I'd much rather work on antiderivatives or analytical chemistry or programming in C++ or something.

*sigh*...sorry 'bout this...I guess I might've proved something here...maybe not...I don't know...I just felt like ranting a bit.

I'm feeling better now, though. Wow.

deena lissa who shall promptly shut her trap now and read on happily

"You've got to live with yourself for the rest of your life..." (Duran Duran 1997) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

Naaah. I'm a lurker here, and I hate english stuff too. I'm all math and science. FWIW, I'd take physics and calculus rather than read Paradise Lost--I suck at interpretations. Thats the thing that amazes me about this ng--all these people watch one episode of Daria, and you come up with all of these interpretations, and I'm thinking, how the hell did you come up with that? Thats also the biggest reason why I never post.... I'm digressing, well, sort of....

~Sair

"His mind slid away into the labyrinthine world of doublethink. To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which canceled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself--that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink."

[email] wrote:

Sorry, but I loved all of my Lit classes-- it was why I was a Lit major in college. Science is okay, but it always seemed a little lifeless to me. *shrug*

Well, I never could get C++. I was born to be right-brained, I guess. <g>

Sorry, but PL is one of my all-time faves... the last epic that was written in the classical tradition, IMO. And I have traumatic memories of HS physics-- *shudder* -- while I have warm, fuzzy feelings about my HS English teachers-- all three were great.

As for the multiple interps, well, for some of us, we've had a lot of practice-- if you analyze enough lit, you learn the knack to it. (And there is a knack to it.) But like any muscle, if you don't use it, it atrophies.

And if you don't agree with an interp, by all means, say so! Sometimes people can get a little out-of-hand, and it helps to keep discussions grounded. (Just ignore the pop-culture crit thread, unless you want to jam your newsreader. <g>)

So post away! Usenet's a free country. <g> Besides, the more points of view, the better-- you can learn a lot about people by trying to see the world through their eyes, and you don't even have to agree with them.

Granted, some subjects do get beaten to death, but that's also part of the charm of this group. Digressions are always welcome as well.

rich.

Quinn: People are so weird!

Daria: Some are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.

In article , [email] wrote:

and

*giggle*...what, you talking to me there? I've only just put what I consider to be the highlights of the episodes I have reviewed (two at the last count). They're not really that hard to do...just watch the show and write up what you liked best. That's why I don't find it at the least hard to do. Or...are you talking about the others...hm...I think you're talking about the others.... :)

Anyways, please, step out of lurk mode. I'm sure you've got some cool "Daria" observations. As someone pointed out to me earlier, you like "Daria". You're on this "Daria" newsgroup. So what do ya need to worry about?

deena lissa

"You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:15:50 GMT, deena lissa wrote:

Actually, I enjoyed English class. For one thing, I enjoy reading, a trait that too many people seem to lack these days. :-( For another, it helped me immensely with my writing skills; I'll never be a World Famous Author, but I know *how* to write. I know how to construct a sentence and a paragraph, and I pay close attention to spelling and grammar. I cringe every time I read a fanfic where a decent story is smothered under a positively atrocious writing style.

Would it depress you even further if I told you that English was the one series of classes where I consistently got straight 'A's? ;-)

In article ,

Would I depress you if I told you I got a 95 in my first semester of comp. sci in high school and a 97 in my second semester of comp. sci.? And that I also got a 98 overall grade in Chem I? And that I also had a 95 overall grade in Pre-Cal? *giggle*

I'll stop.

Strangely enough, I did quite well in most of my English classes. I think I got straight 90s in English I - English III (H) and that I got an 86 in AP English IV.

I was once a brain, ya see. Now it's gone.... :)

deena lissa (who graduated from high school with a 92 GPA and # 11 in her class and who will summarily shut up because now she's got no brain left)

"You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

deena lissa wrote in message ...

Probably not. You like Daria. You're on a Daria Usenet group.

Seems simple enough ;^)

I

semester,

I don't know if you're the only one. I loved English class. It was the only class in which I could actually thrive while slacking... mostly because I find it very easy to analyze and convey my analysis.

when

it

to

Out of curiosity I have to ask, are you a writer? If you're not a writer, and you're not interested, don't sweat it. It's all good. If you are a writer, then pay close attention. It really helps to take a look at how other folks get their message or point across.

otherwise

Maybe you should call up your English teachers and thank them. Right now. Go ahead, we'll still be here when you get back ;^)

analytical

Cool. To quote from the theme to that wonderful and classic sitcom, "It takes different strokes... it takes different strokes to row the world, yes it does."

Not everybody likes the same things, which is perfectly fine.

here...maybe

Glad to hear it ;^)

On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:39:32 -0500, "Chris Seamans" wrote:

In HS, we (my friends and myself) refered to this skill as, "BSing" :p

Tarvok wrote in message ...

only

Yep, I'll agree, and I happen to excel at it. ;^)

In article , "Chris Seamans" wrote:

*giggle* How funny. And yet how right.

Oh god, I was so burned out on it. I guess that's why I can't stand English class anymore...precisely because I'm burned out on it. I remember having this phone conversation yesterday with my best friend, who also had the same teacher for the same senior-year English class (it was an AP class), and she remembered hearing from her instructor that this one section that we had covered to death in senior year English wasn't going to be discussed because "it's too advanced and it's only for junior-year English majors". And this is a top-notch school we're talking about. Ick.

OK...*whew*. I'm not a writer. Probably never will be, either -- I don't think I could handle it. Thanks for taking a load off me. :)

LOL. Or maybe shock them by actually showing up at the school. Although...we did have directories, yes, but the majority of the teachers there chose to not disclose their home phone numbers. Maybe call up their voice mail boxes...?

I know I tried to e-mail my senior year AP English teacher last year and it came back to me as an unknown address. Even though I took it off my school's website. Hmmmm....

Thanks. OMG, I remember that show theme! Want to hear something I think is funny? OK, well, one time when I was eight I said something in class to the effect of, "different strokes for different folks", and some of my classmates started bursting out into that same theme song. God...wow. :)

Actually, I've been feeling much better overall today. I just found out that Duran may or may not have officially signed on with RCA Records, which just kicks major arse in my book because they were getting screwed with Crapitol.

Sorry...it's things like these that make me have a really good day.

deena lissa who wishes everyone a wonderful weekend just in case I don't get to do so later on

"You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

deena lissa wrote in message ...

English

same

she

because

Welcome to the college system. Check your common sense at the front door, leave your check at the front desk and we'll all be happy. ;^)

I'm always trying to hammer out my own style, seeing how other folks pace their work, or how they manage to get a point across in a few words... stuff like that. That's because I fancy myself a writer ;^)

Although...we

However you want to play it... Just make sure that it's not at 4 A.M...

There's a story to go with that, but it's long, drawn out and boring. ;^)

school's

Perhaps he or she is in the witness protection program? ;^)

is

the

classmates

My knowledge of early 80s TV show themes is my own dirty little secret. Most people find it annoying when they mention "Trudy" or "Joe" as female names in my presence get serenaded immediately with "You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life!"

Likewise they don't like it when I track them down after class and inform them how the sado-masochistic overtones of the theme song to "Charles in Charge" scarred me for life...

that

Crapitol.

Cool enough.

In article ,

No, you're not the only person who despised English classes. In high school I was thrust into taking AP English and that retarded my writing ability severly. When I started college and was forced to take two CHS (Core Humanities Seminar) courses that were writing intensive, I was in hell. I've never really liked these sorts of things because they force the students to write about stuff that might not interest them. For me, personally, it is easier to get into writing about a subject if I'm interested or even inspired by it (like Daria or PIN Diodes). I've always enjoyed math-intensive courses, mainly because they ask for black and white answers (it's either right or wrong- there's no debate) which is more the way I think most of the time (sometimes I can be too rigid and that's a side effect of the way I think). Of course, I have chose a career in Electrical Enginnering, which is one of the most math-related fields out there. Sorry to ramble, but you don't have to be a literature freak to get into debates about Daria or even to write reviews. It just one perspective that you can look from.

Well, maybe not Chemistry (I'm more into microwave theory- I like too cook, you know:) ). I don't really read many books, outside an occasional sci-fi novel.

Me too.

Mike Quinn [email] "...the race is long, and in the end it's only with yourself..."

In article ,

Probably not. I didn't actually HATE English, but I didn't love it either. About the only thing I've learned from English is how to spell correctly; I wouldn't hazard a guess as to the state of my grammar though.

Sounds like the sort of stuff my brother did for A-level English. He hated it by the end. I'm sort of glad I didn't do A-Level English, because that's when I read things like "The Picture of Dorian Gray", and Edgar Allen Poe, and having the back of my mind analysing sentence structure, etc, would have killed them for me.

Heh, I like to think of myself as Post-Literate nowadays. I like to read, but not "Literature" authors like Jane Austen, or... or... QED I can't think of any. During my first year at University I'd read a book a week, but these were old Sci-Fi paperbacks called things like "New Worlds 7" or Robert Heinlein short story collections which I'd pick up for 50p. I haven't stopped reading comics though. Or crap Science Fiction. :D

The "Daria" analysis course notes suggested Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" as recommended reading. I'm going to recommend it too, as it _is_ a very interesting read. An "academic" text with pictures and converations! ;) .

Side note: Liverpool Central Library is "investing" in a large collection of Graphic Novels, etc, ranging from "Spawn", through "Maus", to "Strangers in Paradise". As a member of the Ian Hering comics Workshop, we're contributing to a display on comics (production process, scripting, inking, etc). Hopefully we'll be able to sell significant quantities of <PLUG> "Comics Express" (the workshop's official organ, this year themed around Vampires), and "Square Eyed Stories" (small press anthology I contribute to)(back issues of both still available, ask for details)</PLUG>.

Who hasn't? If you've proved anything, I know I've missed it... If I've proved anything, I've missed that too.

On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:15:50 GMT, deena lissa wrote:

I did, up until my junior year in high school. By any chance, have the majority, or, perhaps, ALL, of your english teachers been women? <patented sexist mode on> Until I reached the 11th grade, ALL my english teachers were women. All of my teachers in grade school, except one, were women. I hated school from kindergarden to second grade, when I had a male teacher. The problem with school at earlier times was that it was little more than Advanced Coloring up until I had a male teacher. Then we did some real math and such, wich I enjoyed immensely. My fourth grade teacher was a woman, but she was Psycho Science Woman, so she was cool. :)

When the classes were divided into periods, all my english teachers were women. All the reading analysis assignments were just the sort of un-fun analysis crap, usually them effectively saying, "You WILL see what WE see in this story, and that's that! We weren't expected to think, we were expected to read, and then write about crap like "our feelings" and "our personal experiences" and shit like that. Never, "Here's a blank piece of paper. Write whatever you want!" (thus allowing my passion for sci-fi and fantasy to emerge) until 11th grade, when my teacher was Jim Davis.

I had been avoiding GATE and honors english classes until him. I decided to go with the GATE english the next year, and ended up going AP (advanced placement). Mr. Rosche was great! I learned to LOVE writing under him. Haven't found much of a actual use for it yet, but still, I no longer fear english class like I did before.

The only things I read these days are history, and the Wheel of Time, of corse. Plus research for that archaeology project...

In article ,

Yeah, and I don't know about what you said. Because I've never had a male English teacher. I don't know, though...I usually feel comfortable around female teachers...I know that in high school all of my science teachers were female and the only male math teacher I had was in junior year Alg II. I only had maybe four or five male teachers in high school altogether, and that's not a lot considering the fact that I must've had somewhere close to twenty teachers in high school.

Seven classes a day...seven teachers...some repeats...others only for one year.

Thanks again for your perspective. I'll have to read more into it later. Don't have much time (so I'm kinda breezing by all the posts).

deena lissa

"You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

deena lissa wrote:

Hmm... I first read this and thought, "Geez, that's ridiculous, I've had many, many male teachers." But then I got to thinking about it... I've had exactly 4, all freshman year at my old high school in Washington state. I suppose teaching is still a mainly female profession...

As far as English goes, I enjoy it a lot, and may end up majoring in it. But then again, my teachers have all been wonderful, and the last two have been a couple of my all-time favorites. My current English teacher has the whole sarcasm thing going on and can be quite amusing indeed to listen to. I wouldn't at all be surprised if she watches "Daria" on a regular basis, in fact. She also seems to find my comments interesting... my class is especially moronic this semester and so she kind of relies on me and one or two other people to keep the discussions from devoluting into a series of grunts and other primitive noises. Siiiigh...

--J. (Who is counting the days until college...)

In article , "Jessica L." wrote:

only

not

4,

teaching

I guess my teachers have been the exception, because I remember having a number of male teachers in high school. Three of my four English teachers were male, three of my four science teachers, my math teachers were female, but I had one teacher for three years, so that doesn't count much, I suppose. My history/government teachers were all male, and both of the CS teachers were female. Hmm....what was my point again? Oh yeah, whether or not teaching is a female profession. I guess from my experience secondary education isn't as much anymore. And I think university professors are about even, but being in CS, it's hard to tell overall because just about everyone in the department is male. According to my friend Eric, though, elementary education is still very much female. (He's a senior elementary ed major, and very much in the minority there)

Ann

In article ,

I've had a good mix of both Male and Female English teachers. In Middle School they were all women, but in High schol I've had two male and one woman. I liked all three of them, athough the guys are much more challanging as teachers. My current one keeps tryign to boraded my horizons which is annoying. He'll give an open topic reprot and I'll say "can I do it on the Byzantine Empire?" him: "nope" and so it goes. I have yet to do a SINGLE papper on Anything Byzantine, although I did write a rather good papper about Sassnid Persia, and learned from that :)

were

many,

exactly

Daniel McCollum Mono@Transformers: Lost years "death is a feater, duty is a mountian" Ravid Wisconsinite Nationalist

I have bizarre feelings with regards to English classes. I have the intention of becoming an English major, yet I have unique problems with English classes. I hate having to read for English classes because I hate having a stupid, mindless teacher telling me what to think about the book and what the author was saying. I got into an argument about "Of Mice and Men" with my English teacher last year who ended up with the argument "I'm the teacher. And I have these sheets". Which really proves she got right into Steinbeck's mind. She'd probably tell Steinbeck he didn't know what he was talking about.

Then that's fine. I wished for a long time that I was better at math or science or something since it is more definite and less subject to the interpretation of the teacher. But I ended up hating Chemistry and doing better in English. Not that this is all bad since the Science teachers are beginning to annoy me, my AP Bio teacher was telling us how to cheat in English classes like this is an admirable thing. But if you're good at science and stuff, cool.

Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony

Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche

On 26 Feb 1999 00:32:41 GMT, [email] (Eccles9697) wrote:

Uhg, I can't STAND teachers like this!!! They know nothing about the subject itself, are reliant on sheets, yet they claim to teach it.This is why I hated english for so long.

In article ,

science

I could try and rub off some of my still-existent scientific/mathematical love onto you, and you could try to rub off some of your incredible English love onto me. Deal? (starts rubbing) :)

Anyways, thanks tons to those who've responded. You guys have made some wonderful points. I shall go off now and try to have a good weekend (unless I post some more to this group).

deena lissa

"You are lost and alone, but a prisoner of your pride..." (Duran Duran 1986) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

I can't stand the fact that I'm being forced to do advanced comp. this semester, because I just want to get over and done with ALL English. << Deena Lissa

I actually liked English class, but my high school English teachers were all uniformly good. A bad English teacher can suck all the life out of the greatest literature, or so I've heard.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

deena lissa wrote:

I am really torn. I like reading and writing, but the college literature course was like pulling teeth without anesthesia for me. Why? Well, for one thing, I don't like the way it was taught. I always got the feeling that the teacher was trying to make me feel dumb. I felt so frustrated just because I couldn't find the "Christ figure" (actually, the "Virgin Mary figure", but it's the same basic concept) in James Joyce's "Araby". It certainly didn't help that the instructor had a taste for either very dry writers like Raymond Carver (I have nothing against Carver, but that very dry style is generally the opposite of what I usually like to read), or torturously unlikeable stuff like Faulkner. (ugh! Don't get me started!) At least she got me interested in reading fiction again, even if it's stuff like Samuel R. Delany, and other such things I know she would loathe with a passion.

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"Siento que debemos saber para el sue�o de qui�n brillar� esta luz o consagrar una propia estrella" --Alberto Felici

N.P.:"Mr. Meener"- E n g l a n d / T h e L a s t O f T h e J u b b l i e s

In article ,

it's

that

Faulkner.

My English class last spring semester was pretty bad. As I remember it, we read "The Red and the Black", "Indiana", "Anna Karenina", and "Madame Bovary". One of my classmates joked that we really only needed to read the first book four times. He was right; they all followed the same basic formula: a) Wife has jerky old husband, so she's weepy and sighs a lot. b) Wife meets dashing young hero, and they have sex. c) They repeat that last part of 'b' a lot. d) They spend a lot of time trying to keep the jerky old husband from finding out because he'll kill them both. e) He finds out anyway, but instead gets all weepy and depressed himself. f) Dashing young hero gets killed some other way, or finds another girl. g) Wife gets all weepy again and either dies of misery or commits suicide.

It was one of the worst courses I ever took in college, especially because the professor talked sort of like Mr. Rogers, but speaking in a Ben Stein-like monotone. The average attendance, out of maybe 13 students in the class, was about 5 or 6.

****************************************
Things to do:
Take the time to reach out to someone...
...and strangle them.