Does anyone think it could be possible that the show's writers want Trent and Daria to get closer together but they're not allowed to because some MTV executives fear that an adult-teenager relationship could cause viewer outrage ? MSB
conspiracy theory: Trent and Daria not allowed to get together
S03E01 Daria!retroJul 27, 19995 months later79 posts by 26 posters
79 posts
Matthias Benkmann said:
It's quite possible. Of course, that's a problem that solves itself, since Daria's getting older.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:53:06 GMT, [email] (Matthias Benkmann) wrote:
Doubtful. The reason that Trent and Daria have not, do not, and probably will not get together -- except in fanfic, of course :-) -- is that the sexual tension angle makes for more interesting stories. Put them together, and you change the whole dynamic of the series; witness "Cheers," "Remington Steele," and "Moonlighting" (the latter being the textbook example of how badly it can go wrong). Daria tripping over her hormones is more interesting than Daria indulging in them... although, granted, there is the danger in both of it becoming an old and stale plot device.
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Sincerely, Rev. Paul L. Vasquez
On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:26:17 GMT, father_v wrote:
Believe me, I'm trying to. :-)
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http://www.lawndale.net -OR- http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/Seriously, though, there was one comment you made that got me thinking.
I don't know. Every time Daria goes into her "Trent" routine I find it incredibly funny. Maybe because her character is so set, that the behavior with Trent is so atypical and unlike her, that it's always funny. Incongruity is the essence of humor, to use a two-bit expression.
On the same note, because Daria is so unemotional in general, even an extended romantic episode would still be interesting. Hmm...I wonder. We'll have to see how they handle a serious relationship with Jane later in the season to see if they have the knack for this to pull it off. Writers have a hard time writing the serious relationship stuff: married couples, serious couples, etc. I wonder why. Mad about You was one of the only ones of recent times to get close, but even there, as soon as the kid entered the picture, the writers lost their creative edge. 7th Heaven does OK there, but the relationship is somewhat idealized, although certainly the most realistic family reactions in recent times. Even Jane Austin always cut off her novels after the main male and female had gotten together, or shortly there after. The Crofts in Persuasion are some of the only happily married folks in all of her books, and even that is somewhat unrealistic--it's mainly there as a comparison for the relationship between Anne and Captain Wentworth.
Tough call. Glad I don't write for a show. I'd go crazy. Sincerely, Rev. Paul L. Vasquez
On Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:04:53 GMT, father_v wrote:
I don't know about any "real" writers. But for me (I've written a few short stories and sketched some novels, one of them romance) it is a matter of being confronted with your own dreams and realities. It's hard for a writer who's still looking for his first romance to write about it because he has to face all that longing and loneliness. When I read that sketch mentioned above, it almost makes me cry, honest. And for a writer who's actually married I think it's hard to write this stuff because it touches his own life, maybe his disappointment, unfulfilled expectations and so on. I think Ephraim Kishon must be a very exceptional person to write about all these personal things. MSB
Take a look at a few of my fics. I mean, I now regret having brought Trent and Daria together, but their relationship *is* quite realistic. It should be: I draw a lot on my 12-year successful marriage to my musician hubby Richie for inspiration.
--.\\<-H--
It doesn't have to kill the series if they bring the characters together. There are endless possibilities for humor in the interaction of the Morgendorffers and Lanes, let alone the interactions of Daria and Trent. Life does not end when love, or for that matter marriage, is achieved, and neither does comedy. This fact may be a bit obscured for us because of our FICTIONAL tradition of ending a story at one of these points (love or marriage).
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
On 30 Jul 1999 10:23:00 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Jordan S. Bassior), and it said:
Though you have to admit, it would alter the nature of the show, and, possibly, the nature of the fanbase. It wouldn't necessarily be a *bad* change, but it would be a change.
Tarvok said:
It would alter the nature of the show somewhat, but I think that allowing characters to grow is always a good thing. Consider the alternative options:
- Daria remains lonely.
I think this would be rather cruel to the character; it would turn the show into the cynical version of "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" (in which the heroine lived a pathetically lonely life).
- Daria dates a lot of people casually, not becoming sexually involved.
Improbable given the nature of her personality. Daria tends to avoid people whom she doesn't care a lot for; there's no reason to assume that this would work significantly differently in a romantic sense.
3) Daria dates a lot of people casually, and becomes sexually involved with several of them.
Very improbable given her demonstrated sexual morality, and this WOULD lose some of the fanbase. This, incidentally, is the solution most writers would take to the problem of character "growth" ... and this is one reason I don't watch most "serious" TV dramas or live-action sitcomes.
- Daria gets seriously involved with someone other than Trent.
Very probable if Trent continues to see her as "too young" for him. This could generate a lot of dramatic conflict, especially if (as seems probable) this changed Trent's atitude towards Daria. A lot then depends on HOW seriously, and how soon Trent realizes what's going on.
If Trent gets involved with Daria, I don't think that this would alienate that much of the fan base. It's true that many fans admire Daria for being strong enough to remain a virgin, but few would want her to stay a virgin forever. Eventually, Daria must find a man to love, and, one day, probably marry.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
So? Life is cruel.
It would be true to life though. Lots of people don't/didn't have a boyfriend/girlfriend when they were at school.
If you mean several at once then that might make for a racy fanfic....
Strong enough? It's not like it's required any effort on her part. I would think she's more likely been trying to find the strength to lose it! People always talk of virginity as if it's this thing that people have, whereas in fact it's about a thing they *don't* have, an activity they haven't done. It's an absence not a presence, so it's ironic that people talk about virginity as something you lose.
It's like, I could say that when I learned to read I lost something, namely the ability to see words as meaningless squiggles. I suppose you could describe any new experience in terms of a loss of innocence regarding that activity, but for some reason people only seem to do so in respect of sex.
-Shez.
On Sat, 31 Jul 1999 16:40:16 +0100, Shez wrote:
I'm sure if you tried *really* hard, you could return to the world of meaningless squiggles. Ecspecially with American public education.
Actually, I think there's a very appealing Freudian quality to the point of view that every new experience is just losing something.
Kyle He complained when I hit him. All my friends do. Wusses.
Or you could just read the Arabic/Japanese/Russian sections of some instructions booklet or something.
There's only 1% more illiteracy in the US than in the UK, iirc, so it can't be *that* bad. No, i take that back; yes it can. ;)
agreed. :(
probably... there is no strength, imho, in most virgins' virginity. some people remain a virgin through choice, but most just don't have the opportunity to get someone to have sex with them.
there is/was some supposed "purity" in virginity. i guess it's the loss of this "purity" that causes this attitude.
"endless, nameless" wrote:
Or can't be bothered with maintaining a relationship in which sex eventually becomes an issue.
Or can't be bothered with the risks of getting disease or getting (someone) pregnant if one forgets birth control.
... Or can't be bothered to pay the twenty dollars.:)
... Or really likes seeing all those unicorns.:)
Len
Shez said:
Eternal loneliness would be an unlikely fate for someone as charismatic as Daria. Believe me, girls like her find admirers when they enter college. Maybe not LOTS, but usually the special one they're looking for.
Keep in mind that if the show survives the fifth season will see her enter college.
Yes, but not very true to her personality. Remember, Daria is rather a moral perfectionist, and exceedingly faithful (to her friends, anyway).
If Daria was willing to be a slut she could get laid. Easily.
All she has to do is say one word to Upchuck ... "yes". Or just about any other unattached guy ... it's really that easy.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
i was at one point very willing to be a slut. never got laid.
ahh yes, she has upchuck. if i had known an "upchuck" when i was 14 or so, i would have probably shagged him.
In article , [email] wrote:
any other
EEEEWWWWWWWWWW!!!!! --.\\<-H--
Hee hee hee, Alli, you hit a nerve there. If you've ever read Michelle's fanfics you'd know that Upchuck isn't her favorite person in the Lawndaleverse :)
I'm not sure how to take your comment, though, Alli. Do you mean that you kind of like Upchuck or that when you were 14 you had absolutely no self-respect? Anyway, I bet your present boyfriend is happy that you didn't go for an Upchuck :)
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
In article , [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:
Actually I think Upchuck will be a decent, funny guy once his hormones calm down. In the Lawndale, CT Continuum Upchuck will become a successful radio personality with a troupe of talented individuals performing improv skits with him over the air. He's already on the road to it now as you could see in "Phenom."
I could see Upchuck also becoming a standup comic, or even a talk show host. In any event, he will not be far from the spotlight.
--.\\<-H--
On Sun, 01 Aug 1999 19:19:56 -0700, [email] (Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:
Uh, wasn't that in "The Premiere" (where he and Daria compete to get onto "Win Ben Stein's Money")? Either you're right and it's been too long since I've read your fanfic, or I'm right and it's been too long since you *wrote* your fanfic. :-)
He and Quinn actually share a lot in common: both are desperate for attention, no matter what kind it is. ("Doesn't anyone want to know what ungodly hour *I* got in?")
Martin (send all e-mail to "[email]") +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
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http://www.lawndale.net -OR- http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/In article , [email] (Martin J. Pollard) wrote:
You're right...it was "The Premiere!" It's been too long since I *wrote* that fic, dammit!
--.\\<-H--
i have read some of them, yes. (i have enjoyed all the ones i have read, btw) :)
the latter, definitely
it is highly probable ;)
haha... i was *desperate*... i had, like, no friends. people made fun of me for being ugly and spotty. i would honestly have appreciated the offer; it would have been the only gesture of any kind of acceptance i would have recieved. i would have hated the guy, but i hated all guys at that time. ;)
Alli said:
Well, I guess the people around you at 14 had little taste. You're a cool girl.
That tells us something bad about those people, not about you. I have no idea what you looked like then (and only the vaguest now) but I doubt that you were so hideous as to counter your evident intelligence and charm.
I'm sorry to hear that you were so sad at 14. I'm glad you have friends now, though.
Why was that?
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
thank you. :)
my intelligence and charm were not at all evident... i would still deny that they exist, but if they do, i never had a chance to display them, when the only time anyone spoke to me was either to tell me how disappointed they were that my grades had dropped so badly (ie teachers and parents) or to tell me i needed to wear some make-up (guys at school and - on one occasion - teachers).
yeah, like, two. ;)
i didn't know a single guy i liked on any level... i just completely lost faith in that half (or 48% or whatever) ;) of the population.
I've noticed for a long time, but I just wanted to post it now (for no apparent reason. That seems to be the phrase of my life right now) I think Jordan is the peace keeper of the group. He always replies to the self- negative posts giving an uplifting comment and telling them how vital they are to the group. And though he stands up for himself when needed, he mostly solves or tris to reason through conflict. Hmmm...just an observation.
A poster girl with no poster,
wicka_chick
Tiffany- Upchuck. Eeeeew.
In article ,
cool girl.
no idea
you were
friends now,
In article , [email] wrote:
M'Lady, I do believe you've hit the nail square on the head. I read your post and thought yaknow, Jordon really is the soul of this ng. But he's not the only one. How about the head angel in the pantheon. There are others, both Martins come to mind, along with others.
Jordon's posts are intelligent, on-topic, witty, I could go on and on. Whenever I feel my dementia coming on, a post of Jordon's gives me that warm, cuddly, fuzzy, dreamy feeling just like a couple of hits off an opium pipe.
If there is one thing that is going to cause Jordon to spend a couple of millenia in purgatory, it's his habit of playing with porners. I don't see the spam, deja filters it out, but Jordon's replies always crack me up.
Damn, getting serious again. Watson, the needle...
[email] wrote:
I *love* the song "Fallen Angel"! "I don't believe it all, but I believe in you"...um, *ahem*....
As for Jordan, yeah, he is the quicker picker upper, isn't he, but there's also Mike Quinn's recent nothing but sweet-ness. Fr Martin left a *really* nice message for me on my guestbook. And...I forget who else has been superb here...oh, remembered one...paperpusher...and Ann Booth. And a multitude of others.
Diane
Diane Aguilar wrote:
Where is Ann Booth, BTW? Haven't heard from her in a while...
rich.
Jane: You know, I don't know why people say we have a bad attitude.
Daria: Screw 'em.
In article , [email] wrote:
believe in
there's
*really*
been
a
Well, I got kind of busy finishing my art class last week, then I went on my summer vacation this past weekend, visiting a few friends down in Boise. But now I'm catching up on a week and a half of messages this afternoon. And evening, too, considering this ng....
Ann
Ann Booth wrote:
I know what you mean-- I'm just finishing up on clearing the 210 messages posted since my 'puter got hosed. :P
But I'll have a site update done soon, thank goodness, so I can head to the beach and do some SERIOUS relaxing. Ah....
rich.
"Joseph Stalin, grab my armored muu-muu and together we will leave this foul Earth behind." -- Toon-La.
On the mountaintop, [email] spake thusly:
How do y'all think I felt when I got back from my 3 weeks at camp? And I'm gone every weekend either camping or partying or being hateful at my mom's. Imagine comin' home to your nice little 215 or so messages every Monday, like everybody who doesn't have weekend access does... *sigh*
Mmmm... beach... think I'll go across the street and hang out on their beach. Lake Michigan is awesome this time of year. =P
-Mindy Who lives on Lakeshore Drive, so far north it's not Lakeshore Drive anymore but Sheridan Road, Rural Route 2, State Memorial Highway Division 32, and Chickory Road =P
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P)
In article , [email] wrote:
I guess I've been on a bit of a roll lateley. However, Diane you've been at least twice as sweet as I could ever hope to be (boy, I AM on a roll :)
I agree that Jordan is the man, he's almost always says the right thing and even if he disagrees, he is never ever rude about it. A real class act. Come to think of it, that can just about describe almost all of us to some extent (but Jordan's probably one of the most consistant).
Mike Quinn wrote:
*blushes radiantly* Um...thanks. Couldn't have done it without you guys. (loses ability to communicate)
This is the greatest forum, isn't it? The only times we're really on topic is when there are episodes to discuss (and details to iron out), but it's been great being able to communicate here. No one is nasty to each other, there aren't put downs, no one's clawing each other, etc. *snif*
Diane :)
In article , [email] wrote:
believe in
there's
*really*
Wow, someone remembered me! Now I'm going to go all mushy, too.....:)
Ann who's learning once again why it's bad to leave this ng for a week--200 messages down, 900 to go.
In article ,
Wouldn't it be after the 6th season since 2 of our years = 1 in "Lawndale time"?
Sorry to nitpick, A.J. (math geek, extraordinare)
You think it would be easy to say "yes" to Upchuck? I think that would require enormous inner strength and determination on her part. As would saying to Trent "give us a shag then", though for rather different reasons.
-Shez.
On 31 Jul 1999 13:37:11 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:
Life IS cruel to characters like Daria. I've been lonely all my life and I expect my funeral will be held on Usenet to make at least some people take part (though involuntarily). The best thing about it will be that after I'll have annoyed people with my completely off-topic funeral it will be to late to put me on their kill-lists. And the flames I'll be receiving will make my cremation really cost-effective.
Agreed.
Oh yes, Lawndale 12345. Episode 666: Daria breaks up with Kevin and returns to Mack. Andrea is pregnant from Jesse and the 3Js discover their homosexuality. Trent is excited about the concert at which he's going to play because he's heard that some talent scouts will be among the audience. Helen confesses an affair with an office collegue and Quinn is finally getting those breast implants. I would love this show :-)
Very probable? I think it would be very improbable. Her life is already pushing the odds. She meets a true friend who understands her on the 1st day she arrives. And lo and behold! This friend even has a brother who is at least somewhat of a match for her. Now how likely is it that Prince Charming will just pop into her life completely out of nowhere. And I don't think it would work well. The show would end up having two characters that are both popular among the audience and both competing for Daria. That's not a good situation. The audience wouldn't like it (I know I wouldn't).
You make that sound as if she was in an I-can-hardly-keep-them-back-but-I-insist-on-saving-myself-up-situation. Of course she would resist if any attempts were made, but it's just not an issue since it's not happening.
Maybe not so few among MTV executives, to get back to the original conspiracy theory topic.
If just Trent could get a grip on his life. Show a little responsibility. Get a little more mature. Hmm, maybe if he finally gets that offer from a record company. He would have obligations, appointments, deadlines and money. Being confronted with such a situation might change his attitude. Maybe he just needs to be given the opportunity to show any real responsibility. MSB
Matthias Benkmann said:
But remember, Daria does have considerable charisma. In the limited environment of Lawndale, she simply can't find anyone else who is her match, because she's a very unusual (and superior) individual, and she's too moral and too much of a perfectionist to settle for a man who isn't her match simply to relieve her loneliness.
In a very short time (less than one year her time), Daria will be an adult and a college student. Her social world is going to vastly expand, and she will meet men who are more like herself. Not exactly dozens ... her personality type is rare ... but enough that it is extremely unlikely (given the fact that we know she WANTS to get married and has the self-control to avoid bad romantic choices) that she will have a lonely future.
In my opinion, Trent has realized this and this is exactly why he does not get involved with Daria. He doesn't consider himself good enough for her and does not want her to waste herself, even temporarily on him. While Trent is less mature than Daria in some ways, one way in which his age gives him an advantage is that he has seen how unimportant the social categories of high school become after graduation (that was pointed out, btw, in "Road Worrier") and he is well aware that Daria will be attractive to college men.
How old are you, Matthias? I strongly suspect from some of the things you say that you are somewhere in the 16-20 range (please don't be insulted if you aren't) and in my experience life can seem a lot darker than it is around that time. You seem like a nice guy; you probably just need to meet more people if you want friends or a lover.
ROFL!! Actually, I could see Daria falling in love with Mack ... he's not given much attention in the show but he's clearly highly intelligent, forthright, and decent. His main problem with her is that he'd be the eternal straight man.
Kevin, no, not unless Daria was engaging in some bizarre form of self-punishment.
Intellectually, Jesse's a dim bulb compared to Andrea. But he does have the art of non-communication down pat. Their shotgun wedding lasts a long time because neither of them can say the vows loud enough for anyone else to hear. Their child starts talking at 10.
Could easily see that, though the IVG will kill me for this if she hears it ;-)
(if you think about it, it IS kinda weird the way these guys hang around each other and collectively pursue someone unattainable).
Heck, that's just a reasonable projection from what he's doing now.
Her boss already has a crush on her, almost confessed in "Daria!", if you remember?
Now, we don't actually know that Quinn needs them. Her boobies are indeed tiny but she's only 15; they may well grow some in the next few years.
Considering how many male fans of the show ALREADY worship her, I think it isn't as improbable as you seem to think. Maybe not probable in Lawndale, but Daria's not going to spend her whole life in that town or high school.
Daria's an attractive personality type to intellectual, decent guys ... she's intelligent, funny, strong, moral, and highly loyal to her friends (and presumably would be to her lover). Cowards and the imperceptive would be kept away by her cynical and sarcastic shell, but she probably doesn't want a cowardly or imperceptive boyfriend anyway.
Incidentally, Upchuck has already realized these things about Daria. The database makes clear that he has a real crush on her (beyond his habitual pursuit of all things female). Upchuck's problem is that he acts like such a phony scumbag that he repels her. If he grew up a little bit and simply TALKED to her instead of coming on to her, Daria might like him.
I might not like it (cause I'm a Trent fan too) but I do see how it would create the kind of dramatic conflict which would work well as a plot engine.
About the whole "admirability of virginity" issue ... perhaps I was misunderstood. It is not *virginity* per se that is admirable, rather it is the refusal to give oneself sexually to someone one does not love, and the strength to wait until one meets someone one does.
Daria could EASILY get a guy interested enough to have sex with her. To begin with, teenage guys are generally horny, and we already know (from "Quinn the Brain") that Daria can look sexy anytime she wants to.
I would assume that Daria has sexual urges like any other 17 year old girl. She certainly has romantic - erotic dreams, which implies a normal libido. It's my opinion that she's actually more passionate than most people, certainly more so than her sister (who also hasn't matured much sexually, despite her frantic dating).
Well yes. That's my point. Trent has to mature a bit to be worthy of Daria, one of the many ironies in the show given that he is chronologically older than her. And I suspect Trent knows this on some level.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
haha... mine stopped growing when i was 13. then they shrank. lol.
i remember going to buy my first bra, with my mother... "hello, i'd like to buy a bra for my daugher.. something quite small, i think."
Matthias Benkmann wrote:
OK, I will be the first to admit that college social life sucks, especially considering the tremendous academic pressures you're under at that time. But the key is staying in contact with the friends you made in lower school and gathering together to do one fun thing a month. My two best friends from way back and I all go to completely different schools, yet we find the time to do *something* once a month -- go to the mall (even if you hate clothes shopping as I do, the mall can be fun with a group of like minded individuals to roll your eyes with), go to a theme park (which I LOVE to do because of my intense love of rollercoasters), or even a simple trip to the movies will suffice. And try to make at least one or two quality friends at college. I know I love communicating with my friend Tracy, and we've taught each other a lot (like she's expanded my knowledge of Wicca and I've expanded her knowledge of Catholic education).
22? You're a young one. Very young. Too young to be thinking about stuff like this, IMO, and I'm an Aquarian (old soul).
God, that's what stopped me from reaching for the knife to cut my wrists when I was like ten and eleven. The thought of pain is a good deterrent. Then again, there's always drowsiness-inducing medication and hard liquor from your parents' liquor cabinet. I think what made me stop thinking like that is getting into Duran Duran and getting passionate about music.
I think sometimes I too feel comfort in thinking about my suicidal past, but then I look at what I have that keeps me strong (close friends, family, religion, music, "Daria", this newsgroup, singing) and I gain the strength to shake off that bit -- at least temporarily.
Don't get me wrong, I am much better than what I used to be, but at the same time I believe that if you think suicidal thoughts sometime in your life you are not completely healed from thinking those thoughts, especially if you're like me and have kept them at bay by your own free will. I think for me suicide is like a good line of cocaine to a former cocaine addict with everything to lose if a lapse occurred...it may look attractive as heck but I have better things to do, thanks.
I didn't find those comments funny. I know you're straight out serious.
HEY -- I was an extracurricular demon in high school (with seven clubs under my belt in junior year alone, two of which had officer positions attached) and I don't consider myself wrong or a sellout because I was in so many clubs. Dancing *can* be fun, or you could perhaps take up singing (which I've been really into for quite some time). Going to the occasional wedding reception with a small group of friends can be much more fun than partying -- I will give you that partying seems like a waste of time. At least that's how I feel.
That's not brainwashing. You can't say it is unless you *try* it. I mean, look...even Daria's been to a party and to a dance, *and* to concerts. Daria has a social life with a quality friend to share it with. And I know, she's just a cartoon character, but she is the reason we're all gathered here, right? So, if she can try out parties and dances...why can't you?
You can talk over the phone with close acquaintances! I wish you were here in the States so I could phone you up and we could have a nice phone conversation, or at least leave each other voice mail. Really, I am trying to help. :)
Diane
You guys should read my tribute to my best friend, I posted it on the day that would have been his 25th birthday...he killed himself 2 weeks before his 23rd birthday. I miss him terribly. Suicide is not the answer. It sounds so easy, but it's really not. If not for you, then for your family, friends, and others that care about you. I know, I found out the hard way. Not only by losing a friend, but by trying myself.
Jess "Morgendorfer" [email]
Daria: With a hey nonny nonny, tra la, tra la.
Daria code thingy A D+ T0 W1 Q+ FN^FR O+ Ow+OH+Os M+ C++ MV-- C5X F:308, 105, 210 BB+++ FCD -DT+ q+ fT
In article ,
Suicide is not the answer. Anyone who has had a freind or family member that has done this can comprehend the pain that this causes. My uncle took his own life a week before Christmas a couple years back and my mother (who is his sister) and our entire family is still living with the guilt that maybe there was something we could've have done to prevent it from happening. We feel responsible because we didn't know what he was going through and didn't help. To this day my mother is still not herself, at least not the self that she was before this happened.
Again Matthias, it's not the answer. Even if you don't realize it, there are people out there that care about you.
Diane Aguilar of Diane Aguilar Stylistics
Isn't that an oxymoron?
I hate telephones, in my house I mostly leave using the phone to my computer, it's much better than me at dialling those fiddly digits and performing handshaking with whatever's at the other end of the line. Most of my phone calls to friends are basically along the lines of "see you down the pub at 8:30, bye."
-Shez.
Shez wrote:
Um, at least not to me. I recognize different types of acquaintances -- the ones you just know of, the ones you know of and say hi to/are nice to, and the ones you know quite well but don't really consider to be friends. The third kind is the one I was talking about.
I recognize there are people out there who may hate using the telephone, but Matthias said he liked talking, so what better use of it than to phone up people he knows quite well but not well enough to be friends, and perhaps make a friend or two out of them. And once that happens, he could just phone up the friends. Just my brain working overtime here....
Diane
On Mon, 02 Aug 1999 19:52:56 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Matthias Benkmann), and it said:
I fail to see how joining a club would qualify as a complete brainwash. I do know what you're going, through. When I was in high school, I had _loads_ of friends, a very unusual thing for a guy like me (I had few to none in earlier years). I attribute this to the practice of concentrating as many nerds in one place as possible.
Anyway, when I went to college, all my friends went to these distant universities, whereas I just went to the local state university. To this day, I have _no_ local friends, outside the few high school friends that remained in Fresno (the _very_ few). So, I play AD&D with these two guys, am presently working on getting a trucking job, and I frequent newsrgoups. I hope that, through a little networking, I can get to where I am a welcomed player in other AD&D groups.
The words you need to learn, and repeat as a mantra, are these: "What the hell, how bad can it be?" Using those words I discovered many enjoyable activities that previously I had dismissed as shallow (usually to cover up fear).
For instance, I enjoy dancing. Didn't used to; I thought it was the stupid activity of shallow people for years. Then, during my junior year, some female friends were begging and pleading with me and some male friends of mine to come to a dance that one of their youth groups was hosting. I waffled on the issue for a few days, until I learned that a band that another friend of mine plays in was going to perform. So I said, "What the hell, how bad can it be?" and decided to attend. Being a musician, I couldn't just stand there while the music played... my foot tapped of it's own accord. Somehow, I managed to loosen up enough to actually try dancing. I discovered that it was a lot of fun, and vowed not to miss a single dance the following year.
The magic mantra (as I shall refer to it from here on) also allowed me to discover a great love of roller coasters. ;)
Not that any of this helps. I have no people to go to amusement parks with (not to mention the money), and most of the non-high school dances (and even some of those) around here involve more "partying" than dancing. :(
I hate to break this to you, but you're going to live a long, lonely life if you can't find a way to deal with this general contempt for humanity you have. If you can handle it, continue to live as you do; newsgroups is all I do these days, myself. But if you want (local) friends, there truely is no subsitute to finding something you like to do, and getting out of the house and doing it.
Of corse, the boon of guys that would make a good husband, but lack the knack for meeting people, is their friends "hooking them up." My dad met my mom that way, and I hope some day to have friends that care enough to do that for me. ;)
In general i do agree "socialising" can be a drag I went to a party recently, and spent quite a lot of time staring at a garden I had an "activity path" that stretched from a supply of red wine to an external window ledge...i moved back and forth, taking supplies and standing about trying to look "unnafected", by my complete lack of social intercourse. I had just consumed enough red wine to attempt "wandering about aimlessly" when i realised the party was over :-( in my experience this is what seventy percent of "socialising" is ie just *hanging about* not being in your bedroom, while other people are standing nearby. Parties, are attempts break up, "The dillema of the seperate bedrooms".... :-)
what about that woman following you around? lol... Paul was too wussy to talk to a girl. ;)
and what about that shouting match, after you had drunk two and a half litres of the red wine? Does that not count as "social intercourse"? ;)
<lol> paul darling, spell check... ;)
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
Not true...i had to get a potato...it was urgent
I found a conversation with somebody who hated catholics, but also argued for world socialism, a little "challenging"
What do you mean, here..? <bafled>
with the amount you managed to drink, i am surprised you could manage to eat so much, you know. hummm... on second thoughts, maybe it's not so surprising. ;)
you should have hit the bastard, you coward. it's not as if you were too small to absorb a few punches. ;)
"bafled"... oh very convincing. deliberate typos, to prove that i have an obsession with your appalling spelling. ;P
there's nothing shallow about going to parties... it's what most people at parties do that is shallow. go along, if only to laugh at them. you might meet someone you like, and even if you don't it is better than sitting at home, especially if you talk to people (doesn't matter whether you like them or not btw. :) ). it's not healthy to be sat at home all the time.
go to some parties. ;)
getting out is very good for depression btw. distracts you from being miserable occasionally.
imo you need to be a little more open-minded... (i don't mean any offense by that btw.) you seem like a nice guy, as jordan said, but you're being too *picky*. :) incidentally i would recommend the complete brainwash, but fake enthusiasm will do fine for a while. ;)
What bugs me about parties I go to is that most people don't go to them to meet new people. Rather they go to hang out with people they already know, so despite there being 40 people in a room, you end the evening having exactly the same number of friends as when you arrived (or possibly even fewer...), which makes the whole thing pretty pointless to my mind. You may as well have just had a quiet evening in with those people you knew, and at least there wouldn't have been such a crush to get to the drinks.
-Shez.
what bugs me about parties i go to is that i don't get invited, and don't have the guts to go without an invite, so i don't actually go to the parties... ;) i am invited to one in.. err october, though. i'm glad i was given such a warning, heh.
My personal favourite is when a bunch of friends get together and decide to go to a nightclub. It's so dark you can't see each other, the music is so loud you can't hear each other, and you pay a fortune for a drink which is ninety percent ice (and gets spilt all over you before you manage to leave the bar).
Bill.
Shez wrote:
In article , Bill Harper wrote:
Also: you go to a club, and person A says "Can I crash at your place tonight?" You say "Sure". At some point in the evening, person A wanders off, for several hours, and doesn't rejoin the group. Everyone assumes they've already left. You go back home without person A. The next day person A phones you up, sounding hurt and asking "What happened, where'd you go?" Turns out they'd been lurking in a dark corner somewhere out of the way, and you walked past them twice when looking for them, and neither side noticed the other.
Or person C is upset and wants to go home, but she gave her keys to person J to look after, and J has wandered off and not been seen for over an hour. Spend another hour wandering around getting stressed trying to find J.
Oh Jessica! That was very mean of you.
I told you I was a psycho. I was just doing it to mess with C's mind.
--Jess.
This must be one of the few newsgroups where people wear their misanthropy with pride! We should probably have one of those world tour t-shirt things like someone once did for Hitler, you know "1939 - Poland, 1940 - France", etc. only ours would be "1999 Columbine" etc. (I'm sure Mindy or perhaps Dagny could compile a list of trenchcoaty events to celebrate.) (Which one was it wrote about the Kult of Kim? There was some good material on that site.) Anyhow, such a t-shirt would be really cool as all schools would ban it as being gross and offensive and expel anyone found wearing it, so people would have to wear it under something else, like their green zip up jacket or trenchcoat or whatever. I've just remembered there was a brilliant song by the Boomtown Rats, (Bob Geldof's old punk band) called "I don't like Mondays" which was about a real life girl who went to school and shot her teacher simply because she didn't like having to go to school (well not on Mondays anyhow). It was a very popular song, I think it reached number 1 in the UK, which probably says something about what's wrong with the world, that so many people hate school so much.
-Shez.
On the mountaintop, Shez spake thusly:
Or make someone else do it at gunpoint.
Erm, me. Thanks. :-)
Yeah! Let's make it! *Gets really enthusiastic, then remembers that she's a cynical teenager and calms down*
I don't suppose you know where I could find an mp3 of that?
-Mindy
"I think I'm a mushroom... I must be a mushroom! Everyone keeps me in the dark and feeds me bulls***!" -Ward Rubrecht
Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P) Find the Daria Geek Code at http://www.geocities.com/TelevisonCity/Taping/3017/
that always works.
one of my rather out of high school friends was mad he couldn't find a black trenchcoat after columbine... oh gee... I think it was the whole pinning of the murderers as "outcasts". Dammit, I'm an outcast, what'cha sayin'?
of course high schoolers know better because the principals has ears everyone... someone was suspended for threatening to wear a trenchcoat...
err, trenchcoaty events? I know, we could all dig trenches, shoot at each other, spray gas at each other, cough our lungs up, etc. while people at home are busy convincing the American People that German people are evil and banning German from being taught. Oh, wait, that's World War One. My mistake.
Dagny
http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"I'm not different for the sake of being different, only for the desperate sake of being myself. I can't join your gang: you'd think I was a phoney and I'd know it." Vivian Stanshall
On 22 Aug 1999 00:40:59 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:
Try it on me. I will prove you wrong. MSB
Dagny said:
Yeah. Well, I can see why the school administration couldn't tolerate THAT sort of thing. I mean, wearing trenchcoats. Or even THREATENING to wear them.
Why crack down on real crimes when you can crack down on thouhtcrimes and pick on outcasts much more easily?
Heh heh heh ... yep, that's where the "trenchcoat" came from. And the reason private eyes and spies wore them in films set in the 1920's through 1950's was because they were generally veterans, of one war or another.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
I suppose the thing to do would be to search news websites for keywords like +school +shooting or something and compile a list. I think the ones of the type I'm thinking of mostly happen in the US, the only school killings I can think of in the UK are adults going in to exterminate the children, which of course is totally understandable, I'm surprised it isn't done to a regular schedule in fact so as to reduce the unemployment problem. And of course there are fewer guns here so psychos have to be more creative and use other weapons.
Come to think of it I can't recall a single instance of teachers killing pupils. Having sex with them yes, but not killing them, which is quite astonishing really. I think there's scope for a Daria episode where Mr DeMartino goes postal and holds his class hostage or just runs through the school spraying people with a machine gun.
I might have it on tape somewhere, if I come across it I could mp3 it. Probably quicker to dig out the ol' search engine though, or maybe there's a punk rock webring or something. I think the Boomtown Rats were considered borderline punk though, as they were quite musical. The song probably came out c.1980, give or take a few years. (Is there a music industry equivalent of imdb that lists all records ever?)
-Shez.
Hmm. God, I hate doing this because I'm like basically a stranger here, but I can't see somebody else going through this and not say anything. So please, if I offend or annoy you or anybody else here from what I'm going to write, just tell me I suck and should go away.
What you have described was approximately my mental state for about half of 1997 and portions of '98. I'm much better now, and I didn't even have to take any medication! However, if you haven't looked into it, it's always possible that you might actually have a medical condition which is making you feel so down. So you could check that out.
You're depressed. Why? You have no friends. Why? You don't like going out. Why? You hate taking part in activities. Why? Who cares! The fact is, none of that stuff should matter.
Here is the answer: YOU. That's right, good old fashioned self-reliance. Self-respect. Do you NEED friends to make you happy? If so, you're going about this whole life thing the wrong way. Happiness is utterly dependent on one's outlook. Happiness comes from within. You can't just sit there waiting for someone to come along and rescue you from your misery. You can't make your happiness contingent on certain variables. You have to choose to be happy, because being depressed sucks. At the end of the day, all you have is yourself and your mind, so you'd better learn to be damn happy with who you are.
Again, I apologize if this was totally unwanted commentary from a complete stranger. But I have been there (I used to drive to school EVERY day thinking how easy it would be to just jerk the wheel over and plunge over the median into the oncoming traffic, and I used to cry all the time, and just generally felt utterly miserable all the time) so I wanted to share, just on the off-chance maybe I could help a little. I hope I at least made some kind of sense!! Just know that there is hope. Peace.
On Fri, 06 Aug 1999 03:13:00 GMT, Michael Pierry wrote:
You wasted much time writing all this. Just cite self-esteem 101:
The key is "...to stand proudly and proclaim, 'I am.'... "
MSB
p.s.: I hope (and think) everyone gets the joke with the number.
On 30 Jul 1999 10:23:00 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:
Hmm. I'm somehow beginning to warm up to this idea of yours. MSB
(Daria and Trent in bed. It's their honeymoon night.)
Daria: Aren't we supposed to do something? Trent: -
Daria: Trent ? Trent: -
Daria: (shakes Trent) TRENT! Trent: zzzzzzzzZZ
Daria: At least we won't have any trouble getting the spice _back_ in our marriage.
Dear Matthais,
I love the idea of Trent falling asleep on the wedding night. For some reason I find this completely plausible :-)
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
I've just realised why a lot of the posts on this newsgroup don't make sense to me, you know the ones about Daria being attractive and being able to bed anyone she wants, and Quinn actually being very intelligent.
It turns out that in the UK, Channel 5 have reversed the character names! Here, *Daria* is the intelligent one, and *Quinn* is the attractive girl who is still a virgin only through her incredible strength of character which allows here to turn down her suitors week after week so as to retain her innocent purity.
Mystery solved!
-Shez.
Yes. Methinks perhaps the characters have been a tad overanalyzed by our humble group, projecting WAY too much of themselves onto the characters.
On Sun, 1 Aug 1999 15:41:38 +0100, Shez wrote:
Kyle He complained when I hit him. All my friends do. Wusses.
No Shez, both Daria AND Quinn are attractive AND virtuous, in their own ways.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
In article ,
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Morgendorffers
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I was just reading through the transcript for 'Speedtrapped' at Outpost Daria, and I began to ponder the little things of the ep. Now, after Trent's comment in Lane Miz, ("Maybe if you were older we could go out.") some thought maybe he liked Daria back. Well in the kitchen scene , when the band tells Daria about the ahem, "World tour", Trent says: "You ought to come along too Daria" hmmm. Ponder. Reply.
wicka_chick
Tiffany- Upchuck. Eeeew.
Wicka Chick said:
I think that Trent really likes Daria's company in general, even more so after he's experienced the contrast of how well he got along with Daria and how poorly with his supposed "serious" love interest Monique. Daria's probably one of Mystik Spiral's steadiest fans (notice how often they show her and Jane hanging out at McGrundy's listening to them) and Trent thinks she'd make a good roadie. Among other things.
He just plain likes her.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
"Man is a god in ruins" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
On 02 Aug 1999 05:23:36 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:
The Zen, actually (Lawndale's grunge club seen in "Ill" and "Pierce Me," the one with the *really* skanky bathrooms). We have yet to see McGrundy's Pub... which, BTW, has never been seen or mentioned on the show (it has only been mentioned in The Daria Diaries as one of the Spiral's gig sites).
Martin (send all e-mail to "[email]") +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria!
http://www.lawndale.net -OR- http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/In article , [email] (Martin J. Pollard) wrote:
I suspect that neither Daria nor Jane can go to McGrundy's because they are under the age of 21. The place sounds like an adults only venue because of the beer. If they were a full-service restaurant as well maybe they could go to gigs there but from the snippets about it in The Daria Diaries I suspect they only serve munchies, like that "shovelful of onion rings" which isn't enough to allow them to have an "all ages" policy, particularly not in my state which is California.
--.\\<-H--
On Mon, 02 Aug 1999 04:58:20 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email], and it said:
Well, it's only _obvious_. He likes here. In fact, I'd go so far as to say he likes her a *lot*. But the age difference combined with his own lack of a definate future hold him back. In fact, everything he's done in regard to Daria matches almost perfectly to what I would do were I in his situation. That line in Lane Miz tripped me out with it's simelarity to something I'd considered saying myself in a simelar, though not quite so self-perpetuating, situation.
My So-Called Life depicted relationships well, including that of Angela Chase's parents, Graham and Patty. But then MSCL did everything well, except get good ratings.
-Shez.
In article ,
Actually, it probably would cause viewer outrage. Could you imagine how boring the episodes would get if Daria and Trent started seriously dating? Bleh!! The only way they could pull it off successfully is if they would prove Trent to be completely unworthy of Daria in an ep or two, but they wouldn't do that and risk losing one their star characters. It's just nice to have the tension there. Kinda like watching the "Titanic". The best parts were before the boat completely sank. When it was sunk, it was sunk. Just like "Daria" would be if there was a serious relationship in it. MTV would yank the show so fast, you'd wouldn't even know what happened.
silvercandi