Ok, this may sound weird 'cause Daria's a cartoon and all, but I think that Daria HAS affected my life in some ways....how about yours? Tell me what you think!
How Has Daria Affected Your Life?
S03E01 Daria!retroJan 31, 199917 days before it aired80 posts by 22 posters
80 posts
Everyone wear protection, this one hit a pet peeve of mine.
On 31 Jan 1999 16:42:03 GMT, [email] (MiniCat155) wrote:
I think that Daria has not effected my life in the slightest. I realize, unlike too many Daria fans, that Daria is simply a character. It is not a justification for how you want to live your life. If you life your life the way Daria does, then something is very wrong, because Daria is a TV character in a TV world, and there's no way her character could possibly translate into real life. In this area, Daria has done more harm than good. Many people have put themselves in situations and personalities they aren't happy with, but convince themselves that they must be right because they are martyrs for non-conformity, like Daria. WWDD? Sorry, it shouldn't be that way. Daria is as screwed up as the rest of the world, and conforming to non-conformity is no more being your own person than anything else. In conclusion, I apologize to the original poster for using this post as a springboard to my opinions, and I thank you all for your time. Now please get a friggin life if you think your "just like Daria".
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Kyle, I believe you have succeeded in writing an extremely original and thought-provking post, the likes of which I cannot recall having seen in a.t.d. Due to its ground-breaking content, no doubt, I did not quite understand some of your points. Perhaps you could clarify them, aiding future discussion?
Kyle wrote in message ...
Absolutely! Of course Daria is "just" a character. So is Hamlet. And it would be silly to say Hamlet is a justification for anything.
"Very wrong" with who/what? Do you mean "very wrong" with: (a) the person like Daria, for Daria's life is intrinsically immoral and undesireable (b) Daria, for she is supposed to be unique and not like other people, or (c) the universe, because Daria's lifestlye is in violation of the laws of physics and it is inconcievable that a real person should vaguely resemble her
Also, does saying there's "no way" Daria could "possibly translate into real life" constitute an attack on the show's realism? On what grounds?
Who are these "many people" who have rearranged their lives in ways they themselves "aren't happy with" just to be like Daria? And how is this "doing harm?" Are people with normal vision wearing glasses to "be like Daria" which cause them to stumble into sharp objests? Do you mean people originally unlike Daria have since become like Daria but regret it? If they weren't like Daria originally, why would they find her appealing? Wouldn't a martyr for non-conformity's motto be "what wouldn't Daria do?" If WWDD is a poor standard, then who *should* people emulate? Or if they should emulate no one, how can they avoid being like Daria, who would do exactly that?
"As screwed up as the rest of the world?" Do you mean we are all screwed up equally, in which case Daria is as good as any, or do you mean Daria is especially screwed up; i.e. more than some other people? (And who are they?)
This was particularly confusing. Do you mean: (a) Daria is a pathetic loser and so anyone "just like Daria" would be one as well, necessitating that they "get a friggin life," (b) Daria is such an absurdly unrealistic character that anyone thinking they resemble her is delusional, and so needs to "get a friggin life," or (c) people who believe this are BOTH pathetic losers needing a "friggin life" AND so absurdly unlike Daria as to be delusional as well.
I hope you will answer some of these questions. You have opened up many new and interesting lines of discussion seldom seen in atd. But I'm afraid I must go back to reading my Plato now, *sigh*.
BB
On Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:38:30 -0500, "B_B_England" wrote:
D) The person's personality, because Daria's personality is designed to provoke specific types of responses from the world around her. The world around us is different from the world around her, and therefore will not ilicit the same types of responses.
The grounds that it is a TV show, and it can't possibly be completely realistic. The show takes specific points about life and conveys them in a very honest way, but that is not the same as being realistic.
These "many people" are people I know in real life, as well as several I've met on the internet. Not that long ago, it included me, which may be why I feel so strongly about this.
The rest of these questions are a Clinton-esque nitpicking of phrases that don't deserve a real response.
Now I'm SURE you are Bill Clinton.
*sigh*
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Kyle wrote in message ...
Ok, so Daria is realistc but her surroundings are not. I'll agree to that.
So you object to the concept of "realistic fiction" in general, and not just this show? Then it's just semantics between us.
they avoid being like
I think I see now. Your comments were self-criticism made in the thrid person? I can respect that (and have been known to do it myself). I had assumed (mistakenly) that your original remark that "Daria has not effected my life in the slightest" meant you would be the last person to have adopted Darian habits. A misunderstanding.
I'll admit you post challenged my preconceptions. As TV Daria always struck me as rather harmless, relative to B&B anyway. No sex, drugs, violence, or other serious illegal activity. Even a "get good grades" message. Subversive, yes, but I didn't think it was dangerous. Apparently not.
As for being Bill Clinton: 'we may share certain chromosome pairs, beyond that I'm not supposed to say'.
BB
On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:40:11 -0500, "B_B_England" wrote:
No. Daria is designed to function in her world. Daria as we know her could not exist in our world.
I guess so. I'm sure it's possible for fiction to be realistic, but Daria isn't.
It's reckognizing an old problem in a new body.
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Kyle wrote in message ...
Ahh, let me see if I understand. You see personality as being directly dependant on surroundings, thus in different surroundings one must have a different personality. Meanwhile I'm viewing personality as a relatively constant thing which may respond differently to different circumstances. If that is correct, then our difference here is about the philosophical nature of "personality" rather than Daria, and we're in the wrong NG. If I misinterprated you, could you tell me one specific charicteristic of Daria's personality which "could not exist in our world?" That would settle things.
Hmmm, you say "a TV show""can't possibly be completely realistic," but you're "sure it's possible for fiction to be realistic." Therefore TV is not fiction? And if it's not fiction it's real? Yet it can't possible be realistic? If you can call me "Bill Clinton" then I must call you a Statue by Daedelus, which always run about and never stay in one position.
not
Fair enough. Hey, wait a minute. . .
BB
well, thats how i felt all through high school. that everyone and everything around me was fake as hell. Saerah
I'll second that!
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
Look, Im still @ high school.........and let me tell you its all fake from where Im sitting.
Eccles9697 wrote in article ...
that.
everything
you
In article ,
I know what you mean. Even though she's a TV character, I really feel that Daria helped me get through high school. Toward the end, I was becoming very cynical about the people and my surroundings, and it was reassuring that I wasn't the only one who felt that way.
I'm not saying that I couldn't have made it through without Daria, but watching the show definitely helped cheer me up and made me realize that it was OK to want to be somewhere other than where I was.
Daria Fan
Daria helped me get through high school. Toward the end, I was becoming very cynical about the people and my surroundings, and it was reassuring that I wasn't the only one who felt that way. << Dariafan
Plus I like the fact that despite her cynicism, Daria's really a good person. Most of the time she does act on her own initiative, it's to help. She only gets really nasty when people try to force her to pretend to an opinion she does not in fact hold. And I can sympathize with that outlook.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
Kyle wrote in message ...
I think you raise some profound questions here, Kyle.
(Warning: long-ish response)
Daria *is* a dramatic character, not a messiah. But what is the purpose of drama? I'm making no distinction here between cartoons, TV plays, and the theatre.
Drama can be used in the "bread & circuses" mode. "Under the pretext that people need to be distracted - that is, that governments are interested in distracting people's minds and lulling [sic - dulling?] their critical sense - the dramatic art can be used by the theatre, the cinema and television in a degrading manner, appealing to sexual excitement, money-making and cheap laughter." (reference 1)
But I don't think Daria is like that. I think it "entertain[s] through educating" (reference 2), that it comes close to being "an art of justice... useful to the public, since it purifies and revitalizes human beings, since it reassures them against anxiety and against solitude." (reference 3) I think the plots in the episodes I've seen satisfy Aristotle's definition of universal truths: "The kinds of thing a certain kind of person will probably or necessarily say or do in a given situation." (reference 4)
An art of justice, since Daria often chooses to do what's right above what's popular. A useful art, reassuring against anxiety and solitude, presenting universal truths (in Aristotle's definition), since people who empathise with Daria see reflected in the cartoon a fictional character saying or doing the kind of thing they would probably or necessarily do in the situations portrayed by the writers. This is not only enjoyable, but carries with it, for people whose self-confidence is still in the process of development, a sense of validation: hey, Daria just did what I would do, maybe I'm not such a freak.
Whether the fact that people turn to TV for validation is good or bad, I reserve judgement; but TV is the way most people access drama, and people for aeons have turned to drama for validation, education, guidance - and entertainment.
It saddens me that so much else on TV at best promotes the herd instinct and at worst degrades its viewers: I think that if Daria promotes anything, it's reflected living and the willingness to make ethical choices that may be unpopular.
I agree with you that non-conformity is no guarantee of being right, and that to make a habit of non-conformism *for its own sake* or *because Daria's like that* (note 1) is as damaging as anaesthestising one's critical sense, and conforming for the sake of conformity. The non-conformist needs to be self-critical, if they're not to sink into arrogance and cynicism.
I agree with you that using "WWDD?" as a person's sole method of reaching a decision would be unhealthy; but, perhaps, not so unhealthy as consulting the horsocope, or phoning a premium phone line for a Tarot reading to decide what to do. I haven't seen anyone here asking WWDD? except in jest, or as a way of stimulating discussion about Daria's character - which is valid for a ng about Daria!
Like I said, you raise profound questions. I think anyone who says "I'm just like Daria" is actually saying that they recognise in this well-constructed character some elements they can empathise with; not that they plan to base their life on what Daria would do if she were in their shoes. They've got a life already.
And no, I don't think Daria has changed my life. Except that - I have a respect for MTV for funding this show; that's new. - I think there is (was?) something worth watching on channel five; that's new. - I've gathered new evidence (Daria itself, and the psotings of people in this ng) that not all American people are shallow and crass (I didn't think they all were, but when most other US TV is presented as evidence for that view, now I have counter evidence). - I've gathered new evidence (mostly the postings of people in this ng) that not all people under 21 are brain-dead, popularity-fixated, image-driven, compulsive conformists (again, I didn't think they all were, but it's nice to have new evidence).
Phew!
Martin.
reference 1: Jean-Louis Barrault, the Zaharoff Lecture, Oxford University, 1961; translated by Manalo Santos and John Hodgson in _The Uses of Drama_, ed. John Hodgson, Eyre Methuen, London, 1972, pp17f.
reference 2: Jean-Louis Barrault, ibid., p18
reference 3: Jean-Louis Barrault, ibid, pp25f
reference 4: Aristotle, _The Poetics_; "The Purpose and Nature of Drama" in _The Uses of Drama_ (see above), p62
note 1: But Daria doesn't always get it right, doesn't always live up to her own standards - just like the rest of us (more scope for empathy there). E.g., "I just did something stupid for a guy, didn't I?" (Pierce Me, quoted from memory - correction invited).
On Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:38:22 -0000, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:
<snip>
Well said!
I'll have to disagree with you on this one. People, in my opinion, don't have nearly as much free will as they would like to think. How many people do you know want to change their lives for the better, but don't? So if Daria helps a few people feel better about their situation, this is good, since I don't think this is going to significantly alter their chances of changing their situation. True, dissatisfaction is about the only thing likely to make people alter their lives, but most of the time, it just isn't enough. So, while a few people may have lost something they needed to change, I suspect the entertainment value of the show outweighs this.
Agreed. If you're going to pick someone to model your behavior after, at least pick behavior that will amuse you.
On 1 Feb 99 18:49:42 GMT, Eric Stevenson wrote:
But we can have the entertainment value without them "feeling better", ecspecially when this "feeling better", like prettiness, comes at a price.
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I've known two people who were exactly like Daria (though both were male). I was at school with one, and he was one of those accelerated persons who are put in the year above the one they would normally be in. Due to his superior attitude and sarcastic nature, stupid people hated him, and some would pick fights with him; but he was good at sticking up for himself and survived. Those of us who were intelligent found him rather abrasive but were generally friendly towards him.
I met another Daria-type person at university and again I noticed that many people, in particular the "popular" crowd, disliked him, but I found his originality, cynicism, and continual curiosity about the world refreshing.
Being an outspoken cynic like Daria seems to be a two-edged thing. It can make you many enemies, or at least put you in many difficult situations, but by having to deal with these it seemed to me that the Daria types I knew were able to develop their strength of character in a way that other people often fail to do, which stood them in good stead for making a success of their lives.
Perhaps an unrealistic thing about the Daria series is that her outspoken and abrasive nature doesn't seem to provoke outright hostility from anyone. People think of her as a weirdo and ignore her, but in the real world there are some people who take great exception to weirdos and will either beat them up or at least be generally nasty to them. This is more likely to happen to younger kids of course, but even at 16 I would have expected one or two characters to have been more vicious towards her. I suppose maybe it wouldn't be a comedy any more if it were too true to life though...
-Shez.
Yeesh. I get on the ng to see if anyone knows when the new season is starting up (the commercial flashed by while I was reading posts, amusingly enough) and get deep philosophical discussion. Only on Usenet.
I'm just afraid of what I'll find if I ever get around to catching up with rec.arts.tv.mst3k.misc.
Kyle wrote:
*Blink* Where does the original post say *anything* about "liv[ing] your life the way Daria does"? Yes, she's just a character. Yes, it's just a TV show. But it is, I think, probably one of the best television series ever created. Much like _Babylon 5_, _Daria_ constantly amazes me because I have never seen anything like it on TV. It *has* had an impact on my life, but so did reading _The Hobbit_ when I was nine or ten; and I don't want to live my life like Daria any more than I want to live my life like Bilbo Baggins.
As for how it's affected my life, I'd say mostly by giving me a little glimmer of hope that the world in general and the television industry in particular isn't completely overrun by idiots. It's also one of the few things that every single one of my friends enjoys.
Now if the show had been made ten years earlier, I think it probably would have had a bigger impact on me. If I were going through high school while _Daria_ was on, I think it might have inspired me to be a bit more assertive and a bit less self-deprecating. But even then, I don't think it would have ever made me want to live my life like Daria; for one thing, I don't think I could be or would want to be nearly as blase about life as Daria -- panic is a big part of my self-image.
MiniCat155 wrote in message ...
I have just read kyle`s reply to your post..i have to admit that i share *some* of his misgivings about the thought of people using Daria to decide who they are...nobody is Daria, Daria does not have to put up with pressures and fears of the real world, the creators can make Daria infinitely brave, effortlessly. Us lot, out in the real world don`t have teams of writers behind us giving us a direction and suplying us with a pertinance or a moral point..we have to get that from finding out who we really are...errr perhaps ;-) Daria is an attractive character she adresses issues in people and situations that are usualy either ignored or covered up...but she doesn`t SOLVE these issues. Her character has a perspective that acts like a pointer to these things..."Look, see what i found under the carpet, now isn`t that interesting?". Attempting to take Darias perspective as your own, i feel, is almost the atithesis of what Daria stands for..ie making your own world view from your own thoughts and applying what you see in the world to proper scrutiny. I think it is fine to be *effected* by anything..especialy Daria :-) but there is a difference between using Daria to trigger thought about yourself, and using Daria as an excuse for not bothering to find your own way through the maze...Most importantly unless you are exceptionaly resilient "being like Daria" will not "Glue" together. I certainly couldn`t be like Daria i would probably end up in some home somewhere if attempted to apply Darias approach to my life...thats not to say that i don`t appreciate why her perspective is worthwhile and admirable...just that I have to deal with the realities of my nature not the "realities" of Darias nature Looking back at what you wrote though, you didn`t say anything about using Daria in this way,.you just asked for opinions. I hope you don`t think these comments were *directed* at you, i mean you only wrote two lines for chrissake :-) I think Kyles post to this thread just triggered some thoughts i wanted to share Cheers
On Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:16:35 -0000, "Paul gate" wrote:
This last line makes me a lot happier than a million people agreeing with what I said.
___ Kyle ICQ #12773280
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I think that if you're going to try to be like someone from TV, Daria is probably a lot better than most characters... in terms of being "like Daria", well, no one is exactly that way but people can share things in common with Daria, even if she is just a character.
Has Daria affected my life? It's given me something to watch after school instead of watching my Monty Python tapes for the 10 millionth time.... that's about it.
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
In article ,
Daria has had such a profound effect on my life that I don't know how long it'll be before I finally discover the full extent. I make no secret of the fact that high school was not the best time of my life. Without being fixated on it, despite my best efforts I've had some difficulty putting it entirely behind me. Daria prompted me to look at it with a different viewpoint that finally resulted in an epiphany for me that has at long last allowed me to forgive my tormentors and bring myself some peace. Anger is such a corrosive emotion, anything that can help bring calm is wonderful. Daria has given me serenity.
Second, Daria has prompted me to embark on a rediscovery of myself. I thought I'd pretty much mined out everything there was but under Daria's positive influence I've found out there's still more. I've been prompted to read books I'd never have considered reading before. I've been prompted to read books that I'd always meant to get to but never had. I've been impelled to attempt new things that I'd wanted to try but had never bothered with. I have some things on my to-do list even yet. New things to do, new things to learn. Now ennui has been replaced by excitement--because of Daria. I can hardly wait to see where it's going to lead. Daria has reawakened me.
Third, Daria has led me to re-evaluate women. Let's face it, most women are boring. That's my observation. Daria illustrates that there ARE intelligent, interesting women in the world who have something on their minds besides dating and bouncy hair. I'd always suspected there might be such women, somewhere, I've even met one or two (already married), but Daria makes me think it might be worth making the extra effort to try to find them. I've always admired women with wits. When I see one I shout, "Wow, get a load of the wits on that babe!" ;-) I'd given up, now Daria makes me believe there might still be hope. Further, Daria makes me consider what I ought to do to be worthy of this intelligent woman when/if I do find her. Borrowing the Jack Nicholson line from "As Good As It Gets": Daria, you make me want to be a better man. Daria has given me hope.
No I don't want to BE Daria. I don't even want to be like Daria. I have to be ME and no one else. But Daria has prompted me to look at things from a new perspective. I think that's pretty significant for a cartoon show. I can't think of many other works of art that have given me as much and affected me so much. Seriously, that's how good art becomes great art. Yes, this cartoon girl has had a very positive effect on my life. It's almost like being in love but without the expensive gifts. Thanks Daria.
Bob
[email] writes:
That might be true of the ones you know, but I've always found women endlessly fascinating! I find it an especially surprising comment given the makeup of this newsgroup. Sure there are a lot of dumb boring women, but there are just as many stupid shallow men, in fact probably more. If you'd said most *people* are boring then I'd be inclined to agree with you...
-Shez.
Shez wrote:
I only know one guy who's really worth talking to at all (yeah, guess who). I know several girls who're worth talking to. But that's just in my opinion, of course. I think on the whole women are more interesting than men, but others may disagree.
On Fri, 05 Feb 1999 20:46:25 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
I'll admit that I know more interesting females than males, but that's just cultural, I think.
Actually, I'm a horrible conversationalist if I don't know the person very well. I just have trouble thinking of topics of conversation, or continuing what's been brought up.
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[email] (Kyle) wrote:
well, you just need to practice your cliches, then... like the weather, "some weather we're having, isn't it?" sports "hey, how about that LOCAL TEAM! did you see how they beat the OPPOSING TEAM the other night? that was sure some SPORT game, huh?" politics "i can't believe what those people in CAPITAL CITY are doing! man, those PARTY MEMBERS sure are nutty."
remember, kyle, cliches are good-- they keep you from thinking about how dreadful it can be to discuss substantive issues with strangers. ;-)
rich.
Quinn: People are so weird!
Daria: Some people are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.
On Fri, 05 Feb 1999 22:34:25 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:
I'm not outside often enough.
My sports conversations go over everyones heads. Honestly.
Person: "How bout that Sammy Sosa! 156 RBI's!"
Kyle: "True, but those were a factor of Mickey Morandini's career year in front of him. When you adjust for change in potential runs/AB relative to league, he's not too hot. And the latest Adjusted Batting Runs formula has a higher weight on out on the basepaths, which hurt him a little in his Total Player Rating. His PRO+ wasn't too bad".
No good, high schoolers are so uninformed it's pathetic.
___ Kyle ICQ #12773280
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Kyle wrote:
I'm terrible at that, too. I am immensly proud of myself today, though. I went into town with this guy I fancy and I didn't say anything stupid and I managed to keep the conversation going.....I kinda spoiled it when I dropped my purse and all my change fell out and scattered all over the floor, though.....
"endless, nameless" wrote:
Well, I wouldn't worry about that *too* much... I mean, it's okay if you drop things, just don't drop things *on* him. <g>
rich
"This is Precious Roy, and I just ate a handful of honeybees!" -- Precious Roy.
paperpusher wrote in message ...
What about tripping over midgets when you're trying to get someones attention, is that ok as well ?
Yours concerned
Paul
Paul gate wrote:
I'm sorry, no.
In fact, you are probably the only person on the planet - or any other for that matter - who has ever, in the presence of someone they fancied, tripped over a midget.
But you got the girl's attention, I guess. :)
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
I'm not so i`m sure on my own, with this Alli There must be people reading this group who have had *similar* experiences..ie that you are attempting to appear "coherent and interesting" to some person in the hope that in future they will give you the time of day, and suddenly the universe goes "peculiar"...liquids take on a life of their own The pavements become riddled with man-traps, doors open the wrong or slam bizarly as if propelled by some poltiergeist into the faces of innocent people, previously robust objects, crumble in your hands as if made of pastry.
That sort of thing?
Yes, she passed a pitying look over me before leaving the shop.
She did say "hi" just before the incident....maybe i can take comfort from that.
Paul gate wrote:
I just concentrate on the "coherant" bit, as there's no point being interesting if the noone understands what you're saying. Plus, coherance is a big problem for me even when I'm not around someone I fancy. :)
I can totally and completely sympathise with all of the above, yes. But I think it is highly unusual that the universe's metamorphosis is such that it causes you to trip over short guys. :)
Could'a been worse, she might have laughed at you.
Did she ever say "hi" to you after the incident? :)
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
Here you have unearthed a great truth, Alli I shall have a think about this :-)
I can usualy remain coherant when it is not important i do so. As soon as it's neccesary for me to say something pertinent, I start talking about newts..........or something :-)
Paul gate wrote:
I always hope that if I can manage to remain coherant, I can convince myself that I'm much more confident about the situation than I actually am, so I might - if I'm lucky - relax enough to think of something interesting to say instead of just sitting there thinking "Say something, you stupid bitch!".
I know the feeling. My main problem, actually, is that I can never speak loud enough for anyone to hear me when I'm put under pressure/stress of any kind at all. I have never worked out how exactly this happens - my voice is quite loud when I don't need it to be.
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
talking
You've brought back a memory of the hour that I used more adrenalin than I normally do in a week.
It wasn't the first time I climbed a HVS route after pottering happily at VDiff (explanation on request, if you *must* ask).
Nor was it the time I broke my clavicle into five pieces when skiing.
It was the exam that ISTR they called "De Universa Theologica." I was sat at one end of a long table. Three examiners sat one side, another three the other. At the distant end, with the window behind him (they come out of the sun, you know), was the professor who'd flown over from Louvain to preside at the feeding frenzy (okay, they weren't that bad, but you should have sat where I was sat). I had twenty minutes to defend my thesis, then another forty minutes when they could ask me anything they felt like (anything academic, relating to the last six years' study, that is). And they did.
Somehow, thanks be to God, I managed to speak audibly and avoid mentioning newts.
Speaking semi-coherently and audibly under stress hasn't been a problem since then! And I did get a very nice piece of paper with some writing on.
Martin.
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:08:06 -0000, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:
Well, YOU'RE the lucky one! All I had were three judges at a try-out for the local Honor Band. (I play trombone... and disagree with the assessment of Jodie as a trombone player. She's got the lips, but her attitude suggests flute... never mind) My breath got so constricted by nervousness that I COULD NOT PLAY! I probably could've made, well, eighth chair (maybe), or at least not sucked as I did, were I not so nervous.
Tarvok wrote in message ...
Wow! To be so nervous playing the trombone that you *sucked* must be bad.
I'd have thought that even under severe stress you'd have remembered you're meant to blow.
<g>
Martin.
Martin Sylvester wrote:
I'm asking: what's a HVS route and what's a VDiff? :)
I broke mine once, when I was 10. Only into two pieces, though, but IIRC one of the pieces was sort of in the wrong place and was almost sticking out through my skin.....ugh.....
I might'a managed reasonably in a situation like that. I can sometimes do stuff like that. Sounds like a language oral, only worse. I was surprised how well I managed in my orals, I got 8 points in French and 7 in Spanish, but that's almost completely irrelevant.... :)
They're British rock climbing route grades, Hard Very Severe and Very Difficult. The grades were actually devised in relation to walking, so V.Diff is actually a pretty easy climb for a climber. The main grade names are Moderate, Difficult, Severe and Extreme, which are subdivided by using "Very- whatever" and sub-sub-divided with "Hard - whatever", with everything normally abbreviated to initials. So you get progressions like S, HS, VS, HVS. Beyond that you're into the extremes which they just numbered (E1, E2, etc) as people pushed the boundaries. I don't know what it's up to now, at least E9 I think.
Just to confuse things there are also technical difficulty grades which are applied pitch by pitch or even to individual moves. These go 1a 1b 1c, 2a 2b 2c, etc etc. A VS route will typically have climbing of about 4c difficulty, whilst HVS starts around 5a.
I think different grading systems are used in Europe and America.
I thought a clavicle was a musical instrument.
Hey, I hope there's a Daria episode where she goes rock climbing!
-Shez.
Shez wrote in message ...
That's why they sent me to the piano workshop, instead of the fracture clinic, then. Thought it was funny, but, well, with the NHS in the state it's in....
And there's still a clavichord attending fortnightly appointments.
Seconded.
( <g> - will Shez be the only one to get that pun?)
Martin.
Martin Sylvester wrote:
Quite possibly.....
Martin Sylvester wrote in message ...
Have you ever been to the isle of sky, Martin? There is a lovely mountain range in the south of the island called the cuillins I nearly died on a little mountain called Sgur Nan Gilleon I got to the top and it was absolutely breathtaking.....There is something about the geology of the area that gives the rock a slight pinkish ting. So picture pink mountains poking through wispy, light cloud....wow! However half an hour or so later i forgot all about about concepts like "colour" and "beauty". unfortunatly the journey down was "eventfull" Mmm to get down i had to through a ravine filled with rubble...ie go down the way i came up,.but i hadn`t realised that there were two ravines filled with rubble...one leads to you safely down to the bar at the hotel...and the other leads to certain death..I took the route to certain death! I do this sort of thing all the time, but i shan`t bore you with my little problems :-)
Paul gate wrote in message ...
I've been there only for a day (the Talisker distillery was my principal destination <g>). I planned to go there last summer, but it didn't work out.
cuillins
You might also enjoy the Isle of Arran. There's a fantastic ridge-walk along the Achir (sp? A'Chiar?) ridge, but very good scrambling or simple climbing skills are needed to complete it. I remember walking along the ar�te with a cauldron of cloud below my feet to the left, and clear skies and long views to the right. Breathtaking!
other
Reminds me of an incident one of the mountain rescue teams was called out to. There was a grid reference for the casualties' location, there were no missing persons, so no search would be needed. The odd thing was, the grid ref wasn't out on the hill, but near a road. The shout turned out to be in assistance of the ambulance service, who were in attendance, but couldn't retrieve the casualties.
A group of climbers had pitched tent in the field next to the pub. It was great. All they had to do was hop over the stone wall and go in to the pub through the back door. They had an enjoyable evening, appreciating the well-kept real ales and fine whiskies. They staggered out into the pitch darkness, and hopped over the wall to get back to the tent. It was the wrong wall: the other side of it was a railway cutting, and they plummetted down, onto the tracks below.
It was reported that the MRT were laughing so hard it took twice as long as it should to retrieve the casualties. It was even whispered that (allegedly) they were so overcome with laughter at one point that they dropped the stretcher - with undesirable effects on the casualty who was in it.
Always, always, check the compass bearing, Paul!
Martin.
Martin Sylvester wrote:
I remember going on holiday to some Greek island once (I forget which) and going up to the top of one of the mountains surrounding the town we were staying in and seeing the sun setting. The sky went all pink and blue and all these little stars started appearing. I'd never seen anything like it, having lived in Athens where there's too much pollution to see any stars, and England where it's always cloudy, plus there's not even any hills around here, let alone mountains. Actually, in Athens, it is quite nice once you get up above the smog. There's this restaurant on a hill near where we used to live (Kalithea, possibly) from which you can see a nice sunset most evenings in summer.
<story snipped>
LOL!
Those stars may have looked little to you, but they're damned big when viewed close up!
-Shez.
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
Yes perhaps my case is a little "special", Perhaps the universe is singling me out for special attention. Anyhow i`m making a list of all these "peculiar" problems i`m encountering, and when Jugment day comes i intend to read this list out, in the hope that God will be embarrased into letting me in :-)
laughter would have been far better, though Imagine if after you droped your purse, Scott just wandered off, looking confused and doubtfull, Mmm the trouble here is that reaction would be a bit odd. Imagine if you were a bit more clumsy, than just dropping your purse and Scott just raised his eybrows and peered at you doubtfully, then you turn around for a second and he has disapeared round the nearest corner :-)
Did she ever say "hi" to you after the incident? :)
Yes...but i think i noticed her attitude change...she would stand back a bit and keep an eye out, as though something terrible might happen at any moment :-)
She was quite bright :-)
Paul gate wrote:
Just sue the bastard! :)
Hmm, I see your point! I'd have just *died* if he'd done that! But I would have had grounds to complain if he'd walked off, because he was the one who didn't want to go to town on his own. :)
Evidently, "fifty fifty Paul"! :)
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
God wakes up struggles into the kitchen and puts the kettle on then strides into the hallway. He shuffles through this mornings mail one envelope informs him that he has been chosen from thousands as a lucky winner ..he grins at the irony of this then he stops at one of the envelopes and opens it up... "crikey i`ve been subpeoner-ed!...what git did that!"
You're forgetting the old adage, "when in doubt, mumble"
-Shez.
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:15:23 -0000, "Paul gate" wrote:
<nostalgic giggling> Yeah, I remember during my freshman year, there was this girl I liked. I was finally having a genuine conversation with her (or as close as I got in those days), and was about to make a comment about the different way she had her hair that day... or something like that. I was right next to the wall of the library, and just as I was about to, the door slammed open into my face! Needless to say, I completely forgot what I was talking about.
Okay, newsgroup poll. Who thinks I tell enough "Stories from my Youth" to be officially given the title "Grandpa"?
Thats exactly what i mean. How many times during your life have you been hit in the face by a library door?...I`d wager its not more than twice. So why did fate wait untill it was absolutely imperitive that you were not hit in the face by library door, to hit you in the face with a library door? Blind watch-maker my ass, blind watch-breaker more like. :-)
Paul gate wrote:
ROTFL! I am lucky enough to never have been hit in the face by a library door - or any other kind of door - in front of someone I fancied. My main embarrassments in front of people I fancy have been due to other people's comments/idiotic giggling....I believe I have explained the latter to you before, Paul. :)
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
Its different for everybody, see. the universe "gets us" all in different ways so we don`t all gang up together, and make a proper complaint :-)
Idiots giggling loudly and proding you in the back, cos you happen to be sitting next to your sweatheart, is just one way the universe has its "little fun" with its helpless inhabitants :-)
<crotchty mode on> Listen you young whippersnapper..... <crotchty mode off>
Okay. You can have "Grandpa". I want 'Old Goat'.
Jon Armstrong The Space Ranger Graveyard gives one a unique outlook on life. A dark one.
In article ,
</presence mode="lurk"> Don't worry...now that I've been 20 for almost 24 whole hours I see the rocking chair beckoning me...LOL. Actually I've done tons of "stories from my youth" types of stories, especially since I've now been communicating with *gasp* 13- year-olds...sheesh, those kiddoes were little tykes when I started high school and now they're getting ready to start...GAWD.
On another note...I do hope I can find the time to catch up around here. Haven't been around much lately. Darn. <presence mode="lurk">
Someone who's flipping out over the fact that the season opener will include something ACTUALLY WRITTEN ABOUT IN A PIECE OF FAN FIC (who's hoping it's as good as the fan fic 'cos that fic was GOOOOD),
deena lissa 20 as of 8:28 p.m. Central time (U.S.) 7 Feb 1999
"Sure eyes awake before the dancing is over, Wise or naked in Secret Oktober..." -- "Secret Oktober", Duran Duran (1983)
deena lissa wrote:
How do you think those of us who are even older than that feel? (Hint: *really* old.) <g> What seems to freak out anyone in my generation (X), though, is someone who didn't see "Star Wars" when it first came out because s/he hadn't been born yet. I just hope my generation doesn't make a dreadfully boring self-involved show like "ThirtySomething," though, in order to prove to everyone just how great the 70s and 80s were. *shudder*
(Now here's the part where others can say, "They already have, it's called _____________.) (Yes, you too can play the Match Game at home! <g>)
Just wait till you turn 30. It's supposed to be very depressing, or so I hear. <g> (I'll find out soon enough, I guess.)
Same here. <g>
Oh, and since "Grandpa," and "Old Goat" are already taken, can I have "Cranky Old Man Who Yells At The Kids To Get Off Of His Lawn?"
still sick, and from my rocking chair (yes, I actually have a rocking chair I use as my computer chair <g>), rich.
Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...
paperpusher wrote in message ...
You shouldn't have mixed that bottle of Welsh spring water with your Scotch. <g>
Watch out for RSI. (Rocking Seat Injury).
Get well soon!
Martin.
"Martin Sylvester" wrote:
I know lawyers have an image to uphold of drinking Scotch and Water, but right now, the mere thought of it makes my already twisted stomach do a few more knots. :P
Don't worry- I have a cushion. <g>
I'm trying, I'm trying.
You know, it always fascinates me how we can get so wildly off-topic after only a few posts...
rich.
Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...
Rich wrote:
Well, I did 30, and that was OK. I'm doing 40 now, and I don't think I'm ready to be abandoned on the ice floe just yet.
My role model's going to be Slappy Squirrel. "I'm old. So sue me. Here, have some dynamite down your pants."
Peace Kevin
In article , "Paul gate" wrote:
The other possibility is The Neverending Story.
This is when, in an attempt to be witty and amusing, you attempt to relate an anecdote, then realise that the punchline is, in fact, utterly boring, and that the story itself is way too long ... but you are in the middle of it, there is no way out other than to ramble on and on in full knowledge that you are boring the pants off the person/people you're with without even a payback in the end. I think I completely killed any chances of hitting it off with this one woman on the first date, after one of these stories.
The only solution to this problem, I believe, is to carry a portable nuke in one's pocket, ready to blow oneself to kingdom come if need be.
Actually, the fact that I called the woman "Brenda" when her name was "Laura" as we said goodbye didn't help.
I don't even know any Brendas.
Mikel Midnight wrote in message ...
What you describe is worse..A real living nightmareThe problem is there is no way to "get out" of an anecdote or supposedly "amusing" story Once you have said the fatal words "That's a bit like the time that,...." You have commited yourself to saying something worthwhile. If only there were a universaly accepted way of retracting such claims to "meaning" or "wit", maybe along the lines of "Err my apologies, i am talking crap" Firstly we wouldn`t be forced to sit through half of the crap anecdotes we have to now, Secondly we could of course all save ourselves mountains of embarrasment :-) Finaly if somebody actualy gets to the end of a crap anecdote, we can conclude that they judged it worthwhile...ALL THE WAY THROUGH! and are not the victims of some kind of social pressure......and so view them accordingly :-)
I am experimenting with the "sorry i`m talking crap." technique Ok its not an overwhelming success...but its better than the alternative :-)
LOL...its bizaar...So where the hell did this "Brenda" word come from? Did it spin out of some interdimensional wormhole just at the moment you opened your mouth...or did you actualy say the word? :-)
Paul gate wrote:
It's usually not too hard to sort out the idiots from the people who started telling a story and then realised it was boring, IMO. The latter usually don't expect you to laugh at it.
I apologise for talking crap quite often; I think everyone who knows me is quite used to me talking crap or not at all, so no-one's too surprised by it. :)
In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:
Well ... hope does spring eternal ... in my case these living nightmares are usually followed by desparate, puppy-dog looks ...
An interdimensional wormhole just at the moment I opened my mouth ... hmm ... I wish I thought of that excuse at the time! Someone pointed out to me that there was a TV Julie whose real name was Brenda ... or maybe it was the other way around ... that would be exceedingly odd as I didn't really remember the show and hadn't seen it in about a decade, and didn't even particularly like it, but I guess it might explain why my neurons got crossed. I sent them flowers later with the name "Brenda" on the (inside of the) card, and signed it "Renaldo". Too little too late unfortunately.
In article ,
you
take
relate
of
There's Julie Kavner, who played Brenda on "Rhoda"...did you feel any unconscious urge to call her "Marge", too?
In article , [email] wrote:
That's the Julie/Brenda I was thinking of. Of course, I called the woman "Laura" in my original post, not expecting to relate the explanation, thereby rendering the explanation completely meaningless. Is it any wonder I couldn't get any dates?
See, you missed a perfect Hollywood moment. You both get embarassed and get down on your hands and knees picking up change, suddenly find yourselves with your faces inches apart, and share that first kiss (awww).
Hey, it always works in the movies!
Eric Stevenson wrote:
He didn't help me, though, he just stood there and laughed! :(
In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:
Clever girl. That's just the right thing to do. No guy can resist offering aid to a lady, like when she drops her purse. You can't convince me you didn't plan the whole thing. Poor guy hasn't a chance.
Bob
[email] wrote:
He didn't help, he laughed. :(
On Fri, 05 Feb 1999 22:57:24 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Hey! I did the exact same thing. Except it was a girl I fancy, we were already IN town, and the purse thing didn't happen.
___ Kyle ICQ #12773280
Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister....
Another Nugget Of Wisdom from the Wonderful World Of Kyle(TM)
On Fri, 05 Feb 1999 20:46:25 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Huh huh... yeah, I like women... huh huh... :p
In article ,
In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:
Well naturally the Distaff Darianites are excluded. They're specially-selected members of a special subgroup who wouldn't be here otherwise. By MOST I mean a general population that includes some very uninteresting people. Of course many people are boring, it's just that I'm naturally more focused on the female people. (Of course even the most boring of people have interesting facets--if you look carefully enough.)
Boring depends on what you're talking about, male subjects of female subjects. I think most men are naturally going to be bored with women's "petty problems and convoluted logic" and I suppose most women are going to be bored with men talking about sports or cars or whatever. (Sometimes you meet women interested in sports and cars--cool.) When you're a guy with a group of guys who only want to talk about the latest scores, and you're not particularly interested in that sport, you can at least nod and play along. But when you're with a group of women who want to talk only about makeup and nail polish or who's dating who, most men I know can only just grit their teeth and endure it--unless they're unusual. I hope the women appreciate the special effort their men have made in such circumstances. They deserve a special reward.
What's sad is when men and women can't find ANY common interests. Sometimes they conclude that sex is enough of a common interest. That'll work for a while but I can't think of a single couple I know that has been able to maintain a relationship based only on sex, though I know some who've tried. That usually only makes the divorce lawyers rich. Eventually you'll have to crawl out of bed, take a shower, and change the sheets--then what are you going to talk about? I suspect that successful relationships must ultimately be constituted by two human minds, coming together, with sex only peripheral (The most important sex organ is the brain). But in order for that to happen you have to HAVE a mind. Can you imagine having to spend any time at all with members of the Fashion Club? "Must...stick...head...cold...water."
And of course what's REALLY sad is that there are still some intelligent women who believe they have to act dumb to attract men. What a tragedy! As if a dumb woman was all a man was interested in. You can spend time with dumb women but those women aren't the ones you're going to bring home to meet mother. If a man rejects a woman for being too smart he can't be worth bothering with anyway. I really can't imagine such a thing. I think that's why so many of us guys are interested in Daria. I think she'd make a fascinating date. I'm sure we could find something to talk about even allowing for my own limited intellectual capabilities. You can't expect to have common interests in every subject but there ought to at least be something.
Sure, there are going to be boring men. I just haven't given that factor much thought. You're welcome to complain about them if you wish. Might be quite instructive.
Just my current thinking on the issue--subject to change with further thought or upon receipt of additional data.
Bob
On Sat, 06 Feb 1999 00:51:55 GMT, [email] wrote:
Fairly easily, actually. Though I'd probably spend the entire time trying to convince her (whomever she was) to try doing some thinking, and to perhaps recognize the worth she buries under to avoid ruffling fashion feathers.
Tiffany, I would try to convince (fruitlessly, most likely) that she is NOT fat, that, in fact, Quinn is "skinny" (as opposed to "thin"). I probably wouldn't get far in this endevor, as convinced as she is. Still, I enjoy a challenge.
Stacy's company would probably prove to be the most agreeable to myself, once I'd convinced her that she doesn't have to agree with everything I say (Put on the right clothes and I'm pretty sure I could snag a Fashion Clubber, arrogant bastard that I am. >;p). I have to agree with the assessment put forth (though perhaps exaggerated, or at least accelerated) in that fic starring Stacy of which I forget the title and author. She, perhaps, would prove most interesting, once she'd grown a backbone.
Quinn, I'd probably just play some head games with. I highly doubt she'd slow down her style for mine (blah blah blah blah... endlessly), but it might be interesting from an anthropological standpoint.
I can imagine spending time with Sandi. Most of it would be spent in verbal combat, as she snubbed me and I deftly turned away her barbs with sarcastic wit, and she failed to comprehend. I so enjoy that sort of thing, unfortunately, I suppose. I can be quite mean at times; but, under certain circumstances, it can be quite an agreeable type of dialogue, on both sides.
I don't think Quinn's skinny, she's just slim. Because of the style that the characters are drawn you can't compare them directly to real people, all of them are drawn with limbs of fairly nominal thickness. It took me a while to decide it Daria was really supposed to be skinny or if it was just the way they give people matchstick limbs, but the wedding dress incident finally convinced me that she is indeed lacking in the full figure department.
I like Quinn, apart from her shrill voice which goes right through my head if I put the TV sound through my hi-fi system. Daria's right, there's depth to Quinn's shallowness.
Which reminds me, I was watching the paintball episode (The Daria Hunter) today with the volume turned up quite high and I noticed for the first time that they've gone to quite a lot of trouble with the sound. During the bus journey I found I could hear the bus's engine throughout, and at the paintball place in the woods there are birds singing all the time, and other woodland sounds. I could even hear the paintball team's flag rippling in the wind! The effects are all at quite a low level though, so if you have the volume turned down you can only hear the voices.
-Shez.
In article ,
Always the optimist. :-)
Really though, through all this discussion I keep remembering the character William in D.H.Lawrence's "Sons and Lovers" (There's NO apostrophe in the title--ANYWHERE). His lady love he finally comes to hate because, as he explained to his mother, she's shallow. She was described as, "She could understand nothing but love-making and chatter." and, "Read a book! Why she's never read a book in her life!" Mercifully, William dies and solves his problem but the rest of us we can't expect to be so lucky.
Really, I think the Daria creative staff must keep a copy of S&L on the shelf for reference, there's so much of "Daria" drawn from this book.
Bob
Ok people, I didn't mean that I think I'm just like Daria and that I should do whatever Daria would do......I know I made another post "I'm Like Daria...." well I didn't mean that, exactly.....I mean I'm like Daria in SOME ways but I was always like that, I didn't change myself to be just like Daria. ahhh, I know i'm not explaining myself well! What I meant when I said Daria has affected my life, I meant (as an example) If I'm in a really bad mood or something and I watch Daria, it makes me feel better....that kind of an effect, ya know? Ok well I'm going to stop rambling now.
On 1 Feb 1999 00:45:22 GMT, [email] (MiniCat155) wrote:
Do you have any idea how much you sound like Quinn when you ramble? It's actually quite entertaining. ;p
In article , [email] (MiniCat155) writes:
Umm, it inspired me to look at the "Timer Program" function on my VCR?
Peace Kevin
In article , [email] (MiniCat155) writes:
Umm, it inspired me to look at the "Timer Program" function on my VCR?
Peace Kevin