There were at least a couple of episodes in which references were made to the days of their youth, all of which were quickly cut off by Helen. We know they were hippies, but what do you picture them mostly doing?
My money is on Helen doing coke, and Jake smoking pot. Kinda representative for their spirits... Although the hobbit candle looked like the byproduct of some more serious substance.
Any input, anyone? Myself, I don't remember living that era so my view may be distorted.
MW
Mike Wilson said:
I see them as mostly smoking pot and posing as revolutionaries. They may have done a few more embarassing things, which Helen devoutly wishes to forget -- harder drugs, streaking, experiments with swapping or something of that sort.
"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote in message news:[email]...
have
forget --
sort.
Helen and Jake at key parties?
EEP!
Firah
Firah said:
If we assume it stays in tone for the series, Jake would insist they do this to be "liberated," Helen would reluctantly go along, Jake would chicken out at the last moment and go looking for Helen, only to run into her in the hall, looking for him :)
"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote in message news:[email]...
this to
at the
looking
I don't know. Helen has shown, sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly, that she is a woman with a hearty sexual appetite.
Who knows? She could have ran in to some swingers earlier in her law career, and went along with it as a good business move.
Then realized she made a mistake.
I don't think Jake would stand for it but Helen, being Helen, could have forced him into it.
Where do think Daria gets her possessive-obsessive behavior?
Firah
Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) did write in news:[email], on the date of 30 May 2001:
Seriously, I can't picture Helen doing coke or anything else that would make her *more* hyper, and frankly it's a frightening thought. I can picture her going through tranquilizers like water, though.
Hmm...I don't think Helen wants to forget them so much as prevent Daria and Quinn from finding out about them. Helen's idea of a good time is blasting "White Rabbit" on the stereo while Jake chases her around the living room; I'd say she cherishes her memories of her wilder days.
As for Jake, I picture him doing peyote or something like that, i.e., something that sounds cool but actually proves to be disgusting (not that I know this firsthand; my authority on Sixties drugs is Gilbert Shelton's 'Freak Brothers' comic books). Given the way his cooking experiments turn out, I can't imagine his experiments with drugs were any better.
Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus nothing stronger than the occasional beer, these days
Corvus Marinus said:
She could use some tranquilizers _now_. They _both_ could :)
A little of both. Oh, she'd be _mortified_ if _Daria_ found out about them, cuz she knows Daria would disapprove :)
Yeah, but she likes the idea of being sexually wild _with Jake_. Helen and Jake are very much monogamous; I think she and Jake were each other's first serious loves, and possibly first and only lovers, too.
LOL
Teenaged JAKE (nervous): Um, Helen, am I _supposed to be_ seeing swirly things?
Jordan S. Bassior wrote in message news:[email]...
I
turn
things?
Going "wow" and "urrgh" as four sided blue triangles pinwheel across his field of vision.
Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) did write in news:[email], on the date of 30 May 2001:
[Warning - there's a very minor spoiler for "Sappy Anniversary" later in this post - if you don't want to be spoiled, don't read on!]
Beautiful, beautiful tryptophan...
She's also very much a "do as I say, not as I did" person. Daria's not in much danger, but after seeing Quinn's experience with the glitter berries, I can't blame Helen for being concerned.
I'd say that's quite likely; but to judge from her willingness to reminisce about hot-tubbing with Jake in "Sappy Anniversary," I think she enjoys thinking about their younger and more carefree days.
Teenaged HELEN: Oh, Jake, for Heaven's sake, can't you even *groove* properly?
Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus
Corvus Marinus said:
I agree. I'm not saying that Helen didn't like being carefree and doesn't like thinking about it now, I'm saying that she really loves Jake and _he's_ the only man she really wants. Being monogamous does not preclude being passionate.
LOL!!!
I could see this! :)
Beautiful, beautiful tryptophan...
[email] (Corvus Marinus) wrote in message news:...
You know what? On second thought, I say you're right -- she's no coke person. Now mushrooms, on the other hand.... :-)
The Lanes, however.... they had to be doing some SERIOUS stuff. Trent acting like a stoner could very well be an involuntary reflection of what his parents may have behaved like during his childhood, assuming, of course, they spent it together. The Lane offsprings are so very different from each other (disrespect for organized living as their only similarity) that saying "lack of parental involvement" would be an understatement. Could they have been also dealing drugs, what with all the traveling and living in the islands? They do seem to be well off, yet nothing ever hinted at real jobs in the Lane family. Of course, living off an inheritance, as a distinguished poster had mentioned some time ago, is also a possibility. Heck, even Helen scoring drugs from Amanda as a campus dealer is a (remote, however) possibility.
Good show. Too bad at times they try to be politically correct.
MW
Mike Wilson said:
I think all the Lanes are or were druggies at one point or another. This includes Jane.
I don't think that Jane's a druggie anymore. I don't know about Trent.
"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote in message news:[email]...
So that's why Jane's voice is no longer so low and raspy anymore.
No more bong hits with Trent in the basement!
LOL
Firah
Firah wrote in message news:hLkR6.56758$[email]...
She must have used it just before being asked to go Chocolate bar selling in Cafe D.
In article , "Firah" wrote:
I figured out a long time ago that Trent was a stoner. He is, after all, a rock musician. Jane probably was a stoner but quit. I suspect she got sick of forgetting what she was doing in the middle of a painting. Pot does things to your short-term memory.
Dammit! I was going to add some more to this post and forgot what it was!
Steve Cross
I bet it was wreaking havoc with her running times, and that's why she quit. That, and do you *really* think she could keep that from Daria? Daria would throw fits if she knew Jane was doing pot. Actually, she wouldn't throw fits, she'd just freeze Jane out systematically. ; )
Serra said:
I think that Daria's influence had a lot to do with getting Jane to abandon a _bunch_ of bad habits -- ones that she may not have been very strongly into in the first place. Drug use, making out with random guys at parties, etc. Didn't one show actually mention that her grades had been going up, too?
"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote in message news:[email]...
quit.
would
fits,
abandon a
into in
Didn't
They have both been good for each other.
Jane for prying Daria out of her shell (the surprising outcome of the 'Tom thing') and Daria helping Jane realize her academic potential.
The random guys at parties thing has been toned down but as 'Jane's Addition', 'See, Jane Run' and 'Life In A Past Lane' have shown, Jane can be swayed by a cute guy pretty easily.
As opposed to any 'cut guy' she is now looking for a guy who is cute and outside the mainstream.
Bobby Bighead was not. Evan was a hard core jock. Tom was almost there. and Nathan was a fanatic.
She's not there yet but she's figuring it out.
I really wouldn't want her any other way.
Her 'joie de vivre' is what makes Jane such an interesting, volatile, and complex character.
Besides she's only 17 years old. She's got a lifetime to figure this out.
Firah
Hmmm. I don't think she keeps "times" (except for when she was on the track team). I've noticed that the episodes when we see her running are pretty much when she's under a lot of stress (Misery Chick, Lane Miserables). I think she runs to burn off energy. She's pretty high-strung, though she doesn't show it all the time. How do think she stays so thin eating all that junk-food?
Do we really have strong reason to believe she was doing this? Even in the sixties (presumably her parents heyday) there were more people talking about drugs than doing them. And Jane wasn't even born until the 80s.
Actually, don't you think Jane was in a shell herself when the series began? Failing self-esteem class six times to "feel special", because otherwise "what would I do with my afternoons?"
I think she needed a friend more than Daria did.
Tom was almost there?
OK, who's using Firah's account? :-)
M Man
MMan said:
Not really _strong_, but then the series generally stays clear of the darker issues, intentionally, as an artistic choice. And three things we _do_ know about Jane is:
1) Most of her early social life consisted of tagging along after Trent, who acts a _lot_ like a stoner, and
2) The first time that she went to a party with Daria, she wound up in a closet making out with a virtual stranger.
3) Despite her creativity and brilliance, she was doing poorly at school (as was also the case with Trent, her role-model).
This doesn't mean that Jane was really a bad girl -- I don't think she was -- but it does mean that she was in a fairly high-risk category. And it's very obvious how Daria would have been a good influence on her in all three categories -- Daria's prudish, does well at school, and is a total non-druggie.
... into a family that would fit any model of "flaky hippies."
Well, yes. Daria's more self-contained than Jane is.
I wonder if Trent's as much a stoner as Max was a "criminale" in "Speed-Trapped". Rock musicians' images and their real lives can be quite different ...
What does this have to do with drugs?
She may have known "Bobby Bighead" by sight anyway. Presumably Bobby also went to LHS.
Making out with him may have been shallow, but not really dangerous with so many people just on the other side of the door.
Because they're stoned or they don't put high priority on school?
Flaky, but not hard-core.
And Jane's the youngest of five. Likely the whole family would have gotten all that out of their system by the time Jane was born.
We saw the whole family in "Lane Miserables". They just didn't strike me as a family of druggies. Minor experimentation at most, and probably more by the older ones than the younger.
M Man
MMan said:
I think Trent does drugs, but I don't think he's as hardcore as he seems. In general, the members of MS pretend to be a lot more degenerate and jaded than they really are -- they seem in reality to be a rather nice bunch.
closet
Nothing. It's under the heading of "impulsive sexuality."
Oh, of course she knew him -- but she wasn't his friend. Jane didn't _have_ any friends before she met Daria.
It wasn't _horribly_ dangerous, but it wasn't really safe either.
Mostly the latter.
Agreed.
all
Plus, Trent was looking out for Jane.
The Lanes aren't _bad_ people, just flaky people.
Somewhere in this thread it became tacitly accepted that Trent, Jane, and some other characters almost certainly used drugs. Maybe they did, but we have no evidence beyond a bohemian lifestyle or the fact that some older characters lived through the 60s.
Do you really mean "before", or "at the time"?
The worst-case scenario for *any* activity is pretty bad. I'm not a big Jane fan (heresy! horrors!) but I rather like her impulsiveness - she's not going to spend her old age in regret, thinking of all the things she was too scared to try when she was young. I don't think she'd ever be stupid enough to "play chicken" in cars, or Russian Roulette, or anything like that.
And yes, I think she'll live to have an old age.
This seems superfluous. I don't think anyone on this ng ever suggested the Lanes were bad people.
M Man
MMan said:
any
Well, both ... I don't think that, before Daria, Jane had anyone aside from Trent who was important to her life.
to
I think she'll live a long time too, for one major reason. There's a core of common sense at Jane's personality, enough to make it unlikely that she'll do anything _too_ psychologically or physically self-destructive.
I would think she had friends in grade school or junior high - though not as close a friend as Daria.
We've already been talking about the easy way she has of meeting new guys - Bobby Bighead, Evan, Tom, Nathan - but also look at how quickly she made friends with Daria and Allison. I don't think she's been a complete loner all her life.
Definitely.
M Man
MMan said:
That would make sense -- it's common for some kids to be able to make friends when younger, but fail to adapt to adolescence well enough to make friends in high school.
In article , Jordan S. Bassior wrote:
Aaargh that describes me well enough. I was utterly bereft of social skills between the ages of 11 and 17 ... though I did tolerably well before and after that.
"MMan37x" wrote in message news:[email]...
track
much
she
show it
throw
the
about
'Tom
began?
"what
As I said, they were good for each other. They both needed each other as a friend.
I think they are both even as far as who needed a friend the most. Just because Daria was self sufficient, or appeared to be, didn't mean she didn't want one.
Daria probably convinced herself that she couldn't make make friends with anyone.
Remember her speech in Tom's car in DDMD about moving to a new town and finally finding a friend, after a near lifetime of not having one?
Or every thinking she was ever going to find one...
be
I said ALMOST.
Y'know there is that betrayal thing...
Trent: Betrayal, betrayal, yeah...
Firah
SEASON 5 SPOILERS . . . . .
SEASON 5 SPOILERS . . . . . SEASON 5 SPOILERS . . . . . SEASON 5 SPOILERS . . . . . SEASON 5 SPOILERS . . . . . SEASON 5 SPOILERS . . . . .
Daria exaggerates on this issue.
Jane and Trent teased her about this twice in "Camp Fear". And got a reaction, too. :-)
I think you're mellowing about Tom ...
... not that you'll ever admit it. :-)
M Man
Serra44 wrote in message news:[email]...
things to
quit.
would
fits,
Anyone notice that Mytik spirals Icebox woman sounds a lot like Daria?
"Mark Whickman" wrote in message news:9f6443$v0q$[email]...
I don't know. If Trent ever came on to Daria, seriously, he'd find out that Daria wasn't such an 'icebox'.
You know what they say the quiet ones!
Firah
Firah said:
He would have, anyway. Right now she'd just get pissed at him.
Firah wrote in message news:%VFR6.59171$[email]...
throw
that
Don't. I have just had a flood of memories about the "Dominatrix Daria" posts.
Jordan S. Bassior wrote in message news:[email]...
I wonder what Jane would've taken then...... I can't really see her being a smoker (her lips would've shrivelled).
Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) did write in news:[email], on the date of 30 May 2001:
[shnip]
I think it's a pretty safe bet that Trent's still a stoner, but I have to admit that it's extremely difficult for me to imagine Jane doing anything stronger than the wine she was drinking with Alison in IIFY (and note that that was a social situation). Jane strikes me as the kind of person who prefers to stay sharp and in control; she's severely un-mellow. She might conceivably experimented with pot (and disliked its effects), but I don't see her seeking out anything stronger, especially given the complete absence of peer pressure.
Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus
Corvus Marinus said:
Though as he becomes more of a serious musician and less of a poser, he may be focusing more attention on practicing and less on hanging out and doing drugs.
And she was unused to alcohol.
Well ... before she met Daria, her main "peers" were Trent and the other members of Mystic Spiral -- though of course she was "Trent's kid sister" and hence a protected person: even if Trent smoked, he might not have appreciated his friends getting _her_ into it.
Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) did write in news:[email], on the date of 31 May 2001:
That's what I was thinking - Trent still calls her 'Janie,' and though she gets exasperated with him at times (for some strange reason), she's much nicer to him than to the other members of her family - my guess is that he was protective of her and made sure the other Spirals didn't think of her as a 'peer'; and from the evidence she never had a peer group at school (although it would be interesting to see what her pre-Daria years were like - maybe we'll get a glimpse of that before the series ends).
-Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus
Can't imagine why :-)
In talking about Jane's life pre-Daria, I think it's important to remember that Jane was presumably 15 years old when the series started - not an almost-grown-up woman like she is now, but still getting her bearings as a teenager.
Mystik Spiral would have been much less likely to think of her as a peer at that point, much less when she was 12-13-14.
When we speculate about Jane's experimentation with sex or drugs pre-Daria, let's try to remember we're talking about an early- or pre-teen who lives in an upscale suburb. With a flaky and bohemian family, but not an uncaring or abusive one.
While it's by no means *impossible* that she did such things, we need to consider that it's not just everyday-normal for a 14-year-old in her circumstances to be sexually active or stoned.
That would be great. But I fear we'll have to rely on fanfics for that :-(
M Man
In article , Mike Wilson wrote:
I always assumed that at least one of the Lanes had a highly lucrative artistic career, selling photos or paintings done on these trips. That's just an assumption, however.
My money is on dope and just possibly acid. Most "freaks" were pretty puritanical about anything else, though "junkies" were more pitied than condemned. Maybe Jake and Helen took acid once and then thoughts of the future kicked in. _____________________________
******Martin Edwards.****** |
_____________________________
Come on! Nobody's gonna drive that lousy freeway when you can take the Red Car for a nickel
-Eddy Valiant
Jordan S. Bassior wrote in message news:[email]...
have
forget --
sort.
The camping without chemically softened lavatory paper?
in article [email], Mike Wilson at [email] wrote on 5/30/01 10:22 AM:
My guess is they both dabbled in pot and dropped acid. Maybe some other types of hallucinogens (psychedelic musrooms, anyone?).
Perfection is subjective.