DVDaria -- Important -- Please Read

* Special note to those outside the US: As you will read here, you are the reason that any regular episodes of Daria have been released. Please do what you can to demand releases of Daria episodes for your region, or agitate for a Region 0 releases. Honestly, you are the market they're listening to right now. *

DVDaria: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria -- The Fan Petition asking MTV to Release all of Daria on DVD

Executive Summary: It is not impossible that MTV will release "Is it College Yet?" on DVD. This depends very much on sales of "Is it Fall Yet?" on DVD. If both sell well, then Daria boxed sets may well follow. The task at hand for all who want this to happen is to spend time and effort promoting sales of "Is it Fall Yet?" in the US and internationally beyond the current, Web-based fandom.

The source for these assertions works for Viacom...somewhere. This person, who is in a position to know, contacted me on condition of anonymity in response to John Takis' review of the "Is it Fall Yet?" DVD, posted to DVDaria.

What I may disclose:

1. DVDaria and fans' desires for an eventual full-series release are known to MTV. We are complemented for offering concrete and feasible suggestions. They are being heard. It will be possible for some of these suggestions to be incorporated into future releases. The source says we should be proud of ourselves for getting it together.

2. The domestic sales of the three Daria video releases (two separate releases of episodes from season one and the clamshell-enclosed tape that combined the first two) were "not very profitable." Sales outside the US have been much stronger (especially in Italy) -- therefore, there have been a total of five non-domestic releases. The message -- sales are everything. Sales equal more product.

3. The source is happy to see fan interest for home video releases, as Daria's ratings "have been in a very steady decline for the past couple of years."

4. The breakup of MTVA was taken very hard by all involved in Daria and other projects.

I sincerely hope I've been obscure enough to protect my source. I'm relating this much in order to make a point. I hope all who want DVDaria will take this all to heart and do the following:

A. Reach out to Daria fans in your circle of friends -- _especially_ those who don't hang out online on message boards, IRC and Usenet. If they haven't already, tell them to buy "Is if Fall Yet?" If you have the money, buy a friend a copy. It is _all_ about sales numbers. Please also ask them -- point them at it if they're not into the Web -- to sign DVDaria. That number should be 27,000, not 2,700. The petition is clearly a distant second to IIFY sales in terms of importance, but it does set another benchmark for fan interest. Suggestions for increasing DVDaria's visibility and search-engine placement will be gratefully accepted.

B. If you run a fan site, please promote IIFY and offer links to places where people can buy it. The Web is made for impulse buying -- let's see if that frictionless marketing stuff really works. DVDaria banner makers -- new banners wouldn't be a bad idea, with thanks in advance. It would help a great deal if everyone provided a link or toll-free number to as many places that are selling the DVD as possible. I'll compile them and post them to the site, suitable for stealing/linking.

C. Fr. Martin, take a bow. You are the main hub for Daria information for viewers outside the United States. It appears that, until the IIFY DVD, fans outside of the USA were the main reason MTV had any interest in continuing to produce Daria home videos. Please help us to use your database of information on fandom worldwide to get this message out. Kudos also to sites like Planete Daria and others serving the non-English speaking fans. As for us Yanks -- it's well past time we expanded our idea of who and where Daria fans are -- those outside the US have saved our bacon.

D. Ideas have been tossed around about creating a central registry of real name and address information that would serve as an informal -- but potentially powerful -- pre-order list for Daria DVD product. One would gather personal data -- no money -- to be shared ONLY with MTV/Paramount to market IICY and future releases. I believe that this would be a tremendous lever. Given that we actually have someone's ear, I think work should begin immediately. If others already have plans afoot along these lines, let us know what we should do.

Many thanks to my source for the information and recognition that DVDaria is having an impact. The site and petition are and have been the effort of many fans, and I thank you all. Thanks especially to all who have and will sign the petition.

If there is any good reason to remain involved in Daria fandom -- something beyond our individual creative expression, something that will carry it through for years to come -- I'd say this is it.

Um

i think i know what gifts my friends are getting for their birthdays this year: IIFY DVD :)

-l

Yes... I agree... what better way to celebrate President's Day than with the gift of sarcasm?

rich.

On 1/29/02 5:20 AM, in article kHu58.445$fL5.1221@rwcrnsc53, "lupin" wrote:

Oh, sure. That's a *great* way to celebrate it.

M Man

In article , [email] says...

First shot: Everybody signs the petition.

Second shot: DVDs for gifts, even though I don't like being blackmailed.

Third shot: MTV releases all Daria episodes and movies anyway.

If the A&E Cable Channel can release "Pride and Prejudice" on tape for $100, and Cable Channels like the Discovery and History Channels can release EVERYTHING they broadcast at the end of EVERY program I watch for $20, then I don't see what the Hell MTVs problem is.

Alternate third shot: MTV admits they don't know how to market the "Daria" property, and they license the "Daria" rights to a smaller and more specialized company that DOES want to market them. MTV walks away with some "sure" money, and the rest of us are happy. Every person reading this message has tapes of cartoons from third-party companies. It's done all the time and MTV has a "hot" product to market in this way.

I would pay up to $200 for a complete set of Daria Eps on DVD. 65 episodes fills maybe 35 hours, which fills maybe six to eight DVDs with all the normal extras. Each DVD costs $2 - $5 bucks to manufacture. Editorial costs would double that figure. MTV breaks even at maybe $50 - $75 bucks per set: MTV can make some real money from me if I'll give them $200 bucks.

... and I'd pay up to $400, if I got some nice extras with that set, but I want more than a Tee Shirt or a coffee cup. Give me an exclusive well-done booklet written for people who are knowledgeable about cartooning, animation, script writing and pop culture; a serious half-hour review of the "Daria" writing and animation process for people who can write or draw -- include the "Daria" bible, if appropriate. Include "Daria" scenes, intros and trailers that were cut from final production. Include A complete searchable index of all the scripts, including some eps that weren't produced. Include some story boards for these unproduced eps if they were produced. Include an exclusive coupon booklet with real discounts for other MTV tie-in products. ... and include interviews with all the regular suspects. I'd pay $500 if the coupons were especially valuable and not just marketing bullshit.

MTV is overlooking a fortune in continuing sales from people with real money, chasing ephemeral boy-band and faux-HippityHop money from 12-year-olds.

*****

While I'm grumpy today; I'm also serious. Why doesn't MTV just go ahead and release Daria, since they certainly would make money? It doesn't cost much to manufacture DVDs and they could sell them on the web, if nowhere else. I don't see what their problem is.

I would like it if somebody could post an explanation of what MTVs business model is, and how that business model has determined that "Daria" shouldn't be released.

L&R

Well, I would certainly part with $200 (and quite more) for a legal integral DVD set too. But zone Europe, or, better, unzoned, to reach a worldwide audience. But who cares at MTV ? Their business is in selling high-priced global advertising on a broadcast medium, not chasing small profits.

"love and rockets" a �crit dans le message news: [email]...

[...]

In article , love and rockets wrote:

It's a matter of what makes them the most money. If it would cost (for example) $100k to release Daria on dvd and make $400k in profit, but they would make $800k profit if that initial $100k is instead spent on a Best of Spring Break dvd, guess which they're likely to do? It's often not a matter of doing both: MTV only has so much money to spend, and there are just other things that will make them more money then Daria. The Discover and History Channel don't have anything else to release on video then the programs you watch :)

In article , [email] says...

Good start, I think. If this is the case, then MTV should simply license "Daria" to a third-party publisher who would make them some free, easy money without that investment. MTV releases the forgettable 'Spring Break' video, while RCA or Columbia or Fox releases the "Daria" DVD.

Another argument: Money is money. MTV doesn't have to practice triage here, developing only some profitable projects while letting other profitable projects die. The key word is "profitable." MTV passing up a profitable project is like you or I passing a ten dollar bill on the street because we don't want to invest the energy to bend over and pick it up. It's free money to MTV, whether it's a ten dollar bill or just a single penny.

I also suspect that MTV can also borrow as much money as they need to develop anything they want, at interest rates you and I could never touch. MTV essentially has an unlimited development budget, provided they develop projects that turn a profit.

Some of those shows are worth what they charge; others are not. This brings up some interesting questions, though: What business does MTV think it's in? Who do they think their customers are, and what do they think their customers want? Why do they think they need to choose between profitable projects?

Every year, MTV loses millions of viewers who just get too hip to be enchanted with faux hipHop boy bands any more. Alarmed, MTV redoubles its efforts to replace those viewers by getting ever more shrill and phoney on my TeeVee, hoping to replace the ones they lost with new teen viewers who haven't seen their act yet. Damned near a tobacco marketing strategy. It doesn't work and it kills quality shows.

Meanwhile, A&E and History and Discovery and TLC and Animal Planet don't lose viewers. They provide reliable, specialized schedules that attract new viewers at a steady pace. Their profits grow too, and many specialized programming models expand to become general models -- and very profitable indeed.

I've worked for very profitable companies that threw away the good stuff they had because they wanted to focus on hot stuff. Most of those companies aren't around any more (like Atari and Montgomery Ward and much of GM and JC Penny's and Sears). MTV seems to be doing the same thing. It might have cost us "Daria."

Rave, rave, rave.

L&R

They *do* lose viewers. Consistent viewers die at about the same rate new viewers are born and arrive to MTV, then to other channels later on. :-(

"love and rockets" a �crit dans le message news: [email]...

[...]

"Frederic G. MARAND" wrote:

MTV probably loses more viewers because they grow up than because they die...

Send email to jsachs177 at earthlink dot net.

In article , Jonathan Sachs wrote:

But you have to understand the whole Viacom Empire plan. When someone is a little kid, they're hooked on Nickalodien. As they grow into a teen they become part of the MTV audience. Later they move onto VH1 or one of the dozen other cable channels they own. It doesn't matter if you stop watching MTV, so long as they can transfer you to some other product of thiers.

In article , love and rockets wrote:

In order for MTV to agree to that, RCA or whoever would have to pay MTV the same amount of money MTV thinks it would make in profit if they were to release it themselves. To do otherwise would be, from MTV's point of view, losing potential income. They may not want to release Daria now, but the market may change in a year or two that would suddenly make Daria more profitable due to some fad.

But it's NOT free (and we don't know for sure it's profitable). It will cost money to release it. If the ten dollar bill and the single penny are rolling (or blowing) down the street in different directions, which will to chase after and which will you let fall down a sewer drain?

Ha! MTV traditianly does things on the cheap, usualy working out deals with studios and advertisors so that thier shows end up being close to free. Show me anything that they have invested heavily in. (PBS's FRONTLINE did an excelent documentary that focused partly on MTV)

Their customers aren't Daria fans, otherwise they would of treated the show better. Face it, there aren't that many of us.

And a new generation becomes old enough to be enchanted with faux hip-hob boy bands.

MTV isn't SUPPOST to keep thier viewers forever. They just have to keep replacing them with 11 year olds.

I disagree with nothing you've said.

I honestly just let the petition ride for a long time...it got 5-25 hits a day, and that was okay. When it was first created -- a truly collaborative effort of people here (Hi, Aapo, Web designer of my heart) and the Paperpusher boards -- it was a cry of rage and a laundry list of wishes.

Well, 3,000 is a nice round number, and 1,000 signatures in 10 days following IICY? is nothing to sneeze at. And anyone involved in media knows that the feedback one gets should be multiplied by some co-efficient or other, and I leave it up to the experts to do so. But a lot more than 3,000 people have viewed DVDaria's index page -- about 10,100+ -- and some of them, obviously, have swiped their badges at 1515 Broadway.

I'm convinced that it's an imperfect vehicle for feedback, but it does work to some extent. Thanks to all who have signed it.

Well, no one does. But they own it. They'll let you have it on their terms. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It WOULD be unreasonable if top management figured that the DVD sales didn't make ENOUGH profit to continue. Regarding the rest of your post, does this make any common sense? No. In the real world, you have a desired product, and you sell it, and make a profit. In the corporate world -- Viacom is certainly an offender here -- a project not only suffers at the hands of palace politics, but has to be enough of an ass-kicker, moneywise, to make the unit look good.

MTV's problem is that it makes enough money -- unlike A&E, I'll broadly assume -- on straight-up advertising of crap movies and pimple cream -- and payola-esque arrangements from record lables and film companies -- to not need to market home video. Not to say that it doesn't...but it's neither a priorty nor a major component of the business model, I'm guessing. And if it's not a priority in a company the size of MTV/Viacom, it's not gonna happen.

Daria is different. Daria is content worth preserving, keeping alive. MTV accidentally made something like that, and they're going to need convincing to do the right thing.

Boy oh boy, you don't know how I wish this would happen. I'm pulling for this to happen in, oh, say, 10 years, once the management changes over serveral times and they're tickled to get an offer for the rights to what they see as worthless, decade-old content.

I'm there.

What other MTV tie-in products do you want?

I honestly think the current price-point -- $20 MSRP a disc, $15 or so discounted by online retailers -- is groovy. Six discs then cost $140, we'll round up to $150.

Now, OTOH, when I was pestering the Suncoast people at the mall today to find me IIFY? so the could keep it in mind (I knew it would be sold out), I saw that the 26-episode boxed set of Cowboy Bebop is $200. So...$600 for Daria? Perish the thought.

I want to make friends with MTV marketing, or at least convince them that we're right...so I'll say only that I hope they find a way for our desires to be met within their business model for releasing their content on home video.

Um

In article , [email] says...

Thanks. Refreshing.

To answer a couple of your questions,

There isn't much current MTV product that I would pay money for today. MTV could "partner" with other firms in order to offer tie-in products that I would pay for, though. Lots of people watching MTV are hobbyist musicians and artists, for instance. I don't have specific ideas, but in general; I've bought a lot of CDs this year, ALL retail :( ; several musical instruments; about $500 of graphics software, and I regularly use MIDI and notation software that cost me another $1000. I am in fact always in the market for good Tee Shirts, jackets, posters, books, coffee cups and other KollectableKrap, but it has to be GOOD krap. "REAL" krap. All of this stuff is high-discount merchandise that wouldn't cost MTV much to discount.

MTV has lots of muscle when it comes to Concerts. Some coupons for next-to-free folk, jazz and rock concerts by real musicians would be nice, but those coupons would have to raise my eyebrows. No 15%-off stuff.

If "Daria" isn't going to sell a million copies, then MTV could afford to give me a loss-leader Concert or two, and the loss- leader could well afford to essentially offer a thousand tickets to Daria fans in the course of a nationwide tour and wind up finally seating maybe a hundred of us. They'd get it back in CD sales. ... you know, I'll bet something really bizarre from an MTV Marketing standpoint would do especially well: How about a 90% off Amazon Books coupon worth retail $200?

===

MTV has a real problem with lost viewers: Their viewers outgrow what MTV does, and very quickly. Even Nickelodeon doesn't have the problems MTV has. The "Daria" audience could help them.

"Daria" fans frankly have better taste than most 12-year-olds, we have more money to spend, and we hang with what we like a lot longer. We can't make up for every 12-year-old that finally turns 20, but we can help hold the line. It doesn't even take much. A couple of hours of programming like "Daria" per week, and I'd be happy.

===

I agree with you about DVD price points. $400 is a ridiculously high general market price for a boxed set -- I put a $400 figure on my offer in order to emphasize the point that "Daria" actually means that much to me in personal raw economic value. I'll give them my advance order today, if they'd take it.

===

I understand that MTV needs to go after the big score to keep their operation alive. Unfortunately, that 'big score' money is volatile and makes it hard for them to predict their bottom line from quarter to quarter. MTV has been especially desperate for more than a year now, because of a very sharp and drastic CD sales downturn starting about 18 months ago. All this injects lots of inefficiency into their business model which causes even more lost revenue.

Specialized business like "Daria" can not only provide profits, but can also help create the business stability that makes their whole operation more efficient. We are "found" money. We are "new" money. We are "regular" money. We are "predictable" money. We are "elbow-room-so-MTV-can-go-after-the-big-score" money. It also lends MTV credibility and gathers new viewers that they need.

I wish I had better answers.

L&R

"Al B" wrote in message news:[email]...

we'll

find

that

Perish

Cowboy Bebop is available on DVD Box Set? Wow! I'd better stash my money under the mattress.

we're

met

Well, I hope you can because some of the comments on the petition are pretty irate. I hope it doesn't convince them not to comply.

D. T. Dey

Well...that's what they think, eh? I don't think they care what we think of them as much as how much product we're going to buy.

Al B