My Night With Daria

SPOILERS for "My Night With Daria"
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• Do They Or Don't They?

We learned a _lot_ about the love lives of several characters this ep. This includes:

A) Helen - It's obvious from her "stunt car driver" throwaway line that she did _not_ lose her virginity to Jake!

B) Jodie - Almost certainly having sex with Mack, and afraid to tell her parents. Makes sense.

C) Jane - Did _not_ have sex with Tom, ending one major speculation. Probably a virgin then, as Tom was her most serious boyfriend.

and most importantly

D) Daria - Probably not going beyond kissing or at most light petting, which actually surprises me.

Oh, and we know that:

E) Brittany - Has gone all the way with Kevin. Well, big surprise! :)

2) Daria and Jane have _totally_ gotten over their summer quarrel, considering that they were actually comfortable discussing whether or not Daria was going to have sex with TOM!!! If they hadn't, this would be a _very_ tender subject.

• Bad Move, Daria

She made the mistake of first deciding to have sex (on her own initiative), then changing her mind, _and not telling Tom_. Standing him up, and dodging his phone calls, was a very immature thing to do. She should have called him and told him she was scared to go through with it. She avoided this because she was scared of the emotional intimacy involved in even _talking_ about this.

I actually think it's a good idea that she didn't have sex with him ... it was totally obvious from the scene where she offered to that she didn't really want to, that this was something she was about to do just because she felt it was "expected" of her. It would have been a bad thing for her relationship with Tom if they _had_ had sex at that point.

• Way To Go, Tom

Tom, on the other hand, was incredibly nice and understanding -- the way I bet most girls _wish_ most guys would be. While he wasn't _impossibly_ noble (he was willing to go for it, and he was keeping the non-neon condom handy), he was instantly willing to forgive Daria after she pulled the stand-him-up-and-break-up-with-him. I think it's very obvious that he's seriously in love with her.

• Way Not To Go, Quinn ...

Calling up Stacy and dishing out "the dirt" _on her own sister_ was a really low thing to do. This is explainable by the fact that Quinn was seriously shocked (as I thought, she's at least as much a prude as Daria), and that Quinn had literally no one else to talk to about it.

It's interesting to see confirmation that Stacy's her best friend now, though.

5) Postman - The way the story boomeranged was funny, though Daria didn't see it that way. I like the part about Jake "coming in on them in the middle" and "black high heels." Especially the black high heels :)

Conclusion - I really liked this episode. What I especially liked was that it made the point that you can have a serious relationship even if there isn't (yet) any sex. It made this point not only in reference to Daria and Tom, but also (by implication) in reference to Tom and Jane (since from Jane's reaction in DDMD it's obvious that she saw the relationship as serious).

Kudos to the writers :)

Probably during or right after high school (64 to 68'). Not surprising given the time period.

She is a virgin. She told Daria as much (waiting for college).

Yeah. I think if Daria found out that Quinn was having sex, she'd probably have to talk with Jane about it just to sort out her own feelings about it.

I really wish they'd made more out of Daria's feelings of being betrayed by Quinn like that.

"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_

BA said:

She did tell Daria this, that's right. Though I doubt she's really going to lose her virginity on the _exact_ schedule she gave :)

I thought Daria looked really pissed, myself, but I guess totally flying off the handle would have been way out of character for her.

BA wrote:

Probably not.

Daria isn't the type of girl to lose control easily. Besides, she put her anger into good use (for her, at least) -- she started the rumor about Quinn. I think the writers felt that was sufficient.

Belle Book

Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) did write in news:[email], on the date of 18 Jun 2001:

S u s h i - p a r a s i t i c - w o r m - S P O I L E R - S P A C E [snippage]

I've been wondering how serious the Powers that Be were going to make Tom and Daria's relationship, and at this point it wouldn't surprise me if they get engaged in the movie.

Hmm - I would have characterized her reaction differently: she was thrilled to have such a juicy piece of gossip to spread - her first reaction to overhearing Daria and Helen was "Phone!" (and I refuse to believe that she thought Stacy wouldn't tell anyone - this is "It's a neck zit!" Stacy, after all). On the other hand, she was repulsed by the thought of actually hearing the details, so much so that she didn't give Daria a chance to explain that there *weren't* any details.

(I can't help but wonder how the conversation between Stacy and Tiffany went...)

On the other hand, I don't think Stacy appreciated being called a dope. This is the second time that Quinn's lost her temper with Stacy over the phone (the first was in "Mart of Darkness"). I guess the gorillas aren't the only ones who need anger management training. ^_^

That was priceless.

I agree completely. After last week's outing, I would have been grateful for a halfway decent episode; "My Night At Daria's" was a lot more than that - it tackled a serious subject without getting bogged down in it, and it also provided some of the funniest lines this season (Daria and Jane reacting to the thought of their parents having sex was a classic, and I loved the scene where Jake was lording it over Helen because he'd been right about the parasite). Great episode!

-Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus

Corvus Marinus said:

It's quite possible. I was speculating before this ep that Tom only viewed Daria as an agreeable companion, but he looked truly upset when she "broke up with" him (*), and if he feels as strongly about her _and_ respects her as much as this ep makes out, he's probably looking at her as a possible future Mrs. Tom Sloane.

(*) I wouldn't call that a _real_ "break up" :)

Well yes, but this was her _sister_, and her behavior was kinda thoughtless to say the least.

I half expected Daria to _grab_ Quinn and explain this to her.

Especially since, in fact, we know that Daria's parents are quite romantic with one another when they get the chance :)

Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) did write in news:[email], on the date of 19 Jun 2001:

S u s h i - p a r a s i t i c - w o r m - S P O I L E R - S P A C E

I would have said that his reconciliation with her at the end of "Aunt Nauseam" demonstrated that he viewed her as more than an agreeable companion. He *wants* to be with her, and he's willing to let her set the terms. Looks like true love to me.

Neither would Tom.

I wasn't defending Quinn's behavior. Her thoughtlessness is easily her worst quality; she just doesn't take other people's feelings into account. She's been unthinkingly rude to Daria, Jake, and Helen too many times to count.

She probably thought about it, but she's just not the grabbing type. (Jane would have done it.)

I've been labeling my tape collection and watching the episodes, and I just saw the scene in "Depth Takes A Holiday" where Quinn walks in on Helen and Jake kissing and says "I need a shower." Jake and Helen acting like 'lovebirds' is one of my favorite things about that episode. ^_^

Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus

Corvus Marinus wrote:

Agreed. He's definitely showing a lot of admirable patience, which reminds me of the lesson he probably learned in "Is It Fall Yet?" about Daria: she's nervous about going too fast into something, so take it slowly with her. He * must * really love her.

Considering what he did at the end, I'd agree with you on that.

Belle Book

I think it was more "Daria had her long term steady boyfriend in her room all night which probably means they had sex and that couldn't have happened because Daria doesn't do those things but Daria had Tom in her room all night which means that she and Tom ... my concept of how the universe functions is breaking down and I need to talk to someone about this RIGHT NOW to make sure I'm not going insane."

I think Quinn's main objective is to get reasurance after learning this bit of news. What's most telling is who Quinn decides she /must/ talk to.

But isn't the fact that Daria has a boyfriend at all (without getting a makeover!) already incomprehensible to Quinn?

Stacy's always been Quinn's sounding board for juicy gossip. Nothing new, except that this gossip was about Quinn's family.

The problem is that, to Quinn, this is just one more piece of juicy gossip.

M Man

No. Neither of them fit Quinn's definition of "normal", so it's perfectly understandable to her that they'd be compatable for each other.

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No, it's not (that was the entire point of my post, that it wasn't).

Quinn's idea of a properly functioning universe includes the idea that Daria doesn't do something as icky and gross and disgusting and inconceivable (yes, yes, I've heard the joke) as not only let a boy see her naked, but to put his... ewwwww! In her .... /EWWWW!!!/

(Her reaction is very similar to Jake's. "This can't be happening and I don't want to deal with it.")

Look at Quinn's face when she realizes what Daria and their mom are in there talking about. She is completely FREAKED. So Quinn /has/ to talk to someone about this, just for reassurance and comfort (especially about her own fears about someday doing that).

She can't talk to Daria about that because the fact that Daria did that is what's created this personal crisis.

Jake's right out (not only is he a guy but he's her father and that's just... ewww!).

Helen also doesn't work (for the same reason that Daria and Jane are icked out by the idea of their parents having sex).

She needs a peer whom she trusts and whom shares her fears and apprehension about sex. She probably doesn't trust Sandi to take her concerns seriously, and doesn't trust Tiffany to offer much in the way of helpful comments.

So Stacy is the one she goes to to get this off her chest and get reassurance from. Unfortunately, being the best of three bad choices made her not that great of a person to talk to about it.

BA said:

After all, Quinn sees Daria as being _less_ interested in guys than Quinn herself, and _Quinn_ wouldn't let a guy do that. The degree of love or passion required where this would no longer be "icky", but actually _desired_, is literally at present beyond Quinn's emotional comprehension.

"Would ... _I_ ... look ... good ... with ... Tom?" :D

Yep.

Jordan S. Bassior wrote below:

I love that one! :-D I can just imagine Quinn mentally reminding herself of why she shouldn't tell Tiffany this by imaigning her asking that kind of question.

Belle Book

Though I imagine if she got a busy signal on Stacy's line she'd have called Tiffany next :-)

M Man

Quinn: Phone!

Quinn doesn't consider Daria "normal", but why not Tom? Tom is hardly going to be unattractive to "normal" girls.

OK, but Quinn TREATS it as one more piece of juicy gossip. She did exactly what she would do if Brooke wore socks with sandals, or whatever.

But Quinn does "deal with it". She calls her favorite gossip-friend and starts flapping her gums.

Why not just refuse to talk to *anyone* about it, if it's so "icky"? Why not "I didn't hear that, this isn't happening, I refuse to talk about it."?

Reassurance and comfort? She calls someone she gossips with. Why not Amy or Erin?

We're not talking about Helen participating in sex here, but talking about it. Why not Helen?

And if Quinn is so *freaked*, why not a minute or two to gather herself? Why just "Phone!"? Not even "Stacy!", but "Phone!"

Why not Sandi? Why wouldn't she take Quinn's concerns seriously? Or is it that Sandi's not her usual partner for long gossipy conversations?

Of course not. She may have made a good listener, though. Quinn isn't really looking for helpful comments, but for someone to talk to without interrupting her.

I don't suppose Sandi or Tiffany would have burst into tears. But then, it surprised me that Stacy did at this point in the series.

If you look back at past conversations between Stacy and Quinn, without Sandi or Tiffany present, almost all such conversations are about some sort of gossip.

I understand that this situation hit Quinn harder than finding out Brooke wore socks with sandals, but Quinn's reaction was pretty much the same.

And she called her favorite gossip-friend when others were available.

M Man

I'm not even bothering with spoiler stuff anymore.

*Sigh* What part of "Stacy is Quinn's FRIEND" is not computing here?

I mean, really, is this going to require footnotes and a slide show with little charts?

Because they are ADULTS.

Because Quinn is NOT close to either of them.

Because both of them have ALREADY HAD SEX.

Quinn is FREAKED and has to talk to someone who understands and SHARES her FEAR AND CONFUSION about having sex.

That means ONE OF HER FRIENDS.

THIS IS NOT SOME LAME PIECE OF JUICY GOSSIP SHE'S CHOMPING AT THE BIT TO SHARE.

IT'S SOMETHING FREAKY AND SCAREY AND SHE WANTS SUPPORT.

If Daria found out that Quinn had sex, she is going to go to Jane to talk about it. And it's not going to be a "hey, Quinn had sex so lets make some jokes about it" talk. It's going to be a "you didn't cause Tommy Sherman to die/you're not the Misery Chick" talk.

The difference is that Jane is a more reliable friend than Stacy is.

I'm done with this thread. Someone wake me when Boxing Daria starts.

Pembleton: Do you think some people work harder to be stupider than others? Bayliss: I'm going to go out on a limb and say, "yes." — Homicide: Life on the Street

I will

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I understand Stacy is her friend. A friend with whom her entire friendship is based on a love of gossiping, as far as we can see.

She didn't say "Stacy, something big's going on and I'm scared and I need someone to talk to." And Quinn's capable of being that way - she was when she talked to Daria about her crush on David - she slowly worked her way into the subject.

But this time, it was "Wow! A guy was in my sister's room all night!"

She *treated* it as one. While she was talking to Stacy, and when she talked to Daria about it later. She certainly didn't seem horrified that it had spread all over school - even though she could trace person-by-person how that had happened.

On top of which - with all the dating Quinn's done, surely oodles of guys have tried to seduce her (and Stacy). She can't be *that* freaked out by the whole idea - if she was she'd have quit dating.

OK. Anyone else want to discuss this? If so, I'm game. If not, I'm done.

M Man

MMan said:

Yes, but see -- that would have been admitting weakness -- serious weakness -- to Stacy.

the

I'll note though that Quinn has _only_, as far as we know, displayed this sort of behavior to Daria.

There's a major difference between "guys want me to have sex, but I say 'no'" and "my sister IS having sex." Remember that, fundamentally, Quinn respects Daria.

I re-watched the scene on tape since my last posting and I was surprised - Quinn doesn't look like she's "freaking" at all. She's initially quite astonished at what she hears (why wouldn't she be?), but rather low-key, under the circumstances, after that. Especially when Stacy bursts into tears: she just sighs and rolls her eyes. She certainly doesn't seem agitated.

Interesting.

M Man

Rather surprising we got that news so unambiguously.

At least Jodie's got enough hidden rebelliousness to be doing *something* her parents don't approve of. (And at least it's something fun :-) ).

Which raises an interesting question: Who was Tom's first? He seemed a little too cool about the whole thing for us to believe this was to be his first time.

I wasn't surprised.

I wasn't surprised, either :-)

I think Jane's completely over it. Even in LITPL they were joking about it a bit (Daria: "Do I have to go out with this guy, too?" Jane: "I knew you thought Nathan was a jerk since you didn't try to steal him." Rather pointed jokes, but jokes nontheless.)

Rather sad. I thought she would handle it better by this time.

Or she does want to but she's scared? Not mutually exclusive.

I don't know if her hormones are "raging", but she is 18 ....

Yep.

I was surprised at Daria's reaction. I thought she'd go ballistic on Quinn. Not her usual style, but this was not her usual situation. And we know from "The New Kid" that Daria's not above using her fists on Quinn.

If ever there was a time ...

At least give her the chewing-out of her life.

Outside of being a compulsive talker, why did she have to talk to anyone about it?

And if she really had to, why not Helen?

After the first segment, I thought the whole episode was going to be a take-off on "Wake Up, Little Susie." I hope everyone who knows that song noticed at what time Tom woke up in Daria's bed. :-)

I haven't been able to get that damn song out of my head since that moment. :-(

Too bad MTV ditched the closing themes. It would have been interesting to see if this would have been it.

I wonder how much truth was behind Jane's remark "I should have jumped Tom when I had the chance." It sounds like Tom heard "I'm not ready yet" from Jane, too. And now Jane regrets it.

M Man

MMan37 said:

little

time.

Hard to say. He's rich, smart, and suave, so it wouldn't have been hard for him to find someone. I bet it was someone conventional, conventionally beautiful, and ultimately shallow, too -- the antihesis of Jane or Daria.

Maybe Daria was just too paralyzed by the utter horrible embarassing unfairness of the situation -- she'd _literally_ been studying with Tom, and fallen asleep with him doing that in bed. In other words, she'd really done what many girls would have been giving as an excuse for being caught in bed with their boyfriends.

Jane,

Though I truly don't think it would have saved their relationship.

It may be crossing his mind at this point that shallow, conventional girls do have their good points. :-(

Maybe.

This is the sort of damn thing Daria might expect if Sandi was her sister.

I wonder if Quinn would have done this if she'd still been trying to pass Daria off as her cousin. Back then, she wouldn't even talk about Daria to the FC.

And once more I have "Wake Up, Little Susie" running through my head. (Poor Susie was "innocent", too.)

Nope. But that's sort of implied by "when I had the chance".

M Man

MMan said:

The point at which this may have occurred to him was when Daria stood him up. At the end, though, he was very obviously still in love with Daria. And it's obvious now that it _is_ really love.

I don't think he'd trade her for someone more "normal."

I don't either. Just that it might have crossed his mind. Daria and Jane haven't exactly been trouble-free girlfriends, have they? But Tom seems to know what he's doing.

M Man

Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid [email] (MMan37x) did write in news:[email], on the date of 19 Jun 2001: S u s h i - p a r a s i t i c - w o r m - S P O I L E R - S P A C E [snippage]

Why, I oughtta...I was specifically avoiding dragging Sandi into the thread, and then I see this! It's like chum to a shark, I tell you. ^_^

In any case, Sandi would have either blackmailed Daria or revealed the secret to gain some strategic advantage. As I've noted in the past, Sandi's intentionally mean and Quinn's thoughtlessly mean; in general, Quinn comes off better than Sandi, but you never know when she's going to do something cruel out of sheer thoughtlessness. I'm glad she's not *my* sister...

(On a tangent: a few weeks ago we were discussing Quinn's behavior in "Pierce Me," and how her foray into Sandi-ness backfired on her at the fashion show. It struck me on re-watching the episode that her attempt to get Daria into trouble with Helen and Jake by telling them about Daria's navel ring was also the kind of thing Sandi would do, and it also backfired on her. She needs to stick with being unintentionally mean. ^_^)

That's a good point. There is a downside to being openly acknowledged as Quinn's sister!

[snippage]

As I commented in another post, she sounded more wry than rueful - less "I could have saved the relationship" than "I could have had hot sex!" (This is Jane we're talking about...^_^)

Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus

Actually, I remembered our earlier conversation and was beginning to see your point - to an extent. Of course, if I had the "honor" of discussing the incident with Quinn, I'd try to loudly convince her that she was double the bitch Sandi is.

Still and all, I'd rather have Quinn for a sister than Sandi.

Sandi's intentional meanness backfires too. "The Daria Hunter", "Just Add Water", "Fat Like Me", "Lucky Strike", "Life in the Past Lane" ...

Well, I think they had few enough good memories from their relationship as it happened.

M Man

Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid [email] (MMan37x) did write in news:[email], on the date of 19 Jun 2001: S P O I L E R - S P A C E - F O R - E P I S O D E - 5 1 2 - * * * * * * [snippage]

I actually figured that you were probably alluding to the earlier discussion, which is why I didn't go completely postal (to paraphrase Sandi).

Well, I have to concur. I definitely wouldn't want Sandi to be my sister. I feel bad enough about my impure thoughts as it is! *^_^*

For sure. One of the underlying themes throughout the series is "It Doesn't Pay to be Mean"; even Daria has done mean things that have backfired on her. The only character I can think of who consistently gets away with meanness is Ms. Barch, but perhaps her punishment lies in having to be Ms. Barch...

[snippage]

Jane has some - from her conversation with Daria in "Sappy Anniversary," I'd say that the 'romantic crap' Tom tried after he began to lose interest actually worked on her; at least, she didn't convince me with her attempt to discount the romantic candle-lit dinner because they didn't play the whole song and the breadsticks were stale...

-Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus

As I mentioned in another thread, Quinn *really* pissed me off this episode!

Now you know why I wouldn't want Stacy to be my sister. :-)

... talk about cruel and unusual punishment!

Well, she kind of mentioned it as an afterthought after saying "Tom never took me anywhere." So I think the impression it made was somewhat limited.

She did apparently like that sort of thing when she was with Nathan, though.

M Man

On 19 Jun 2001 09:50:44 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

Probably the primary reason he was attracted to Jane, and then to Daria, in the first place. I bet that probably way too many of the types you described are infesting Fielding, Tom got tired of them, so decided to venture out onto "the wrong side of the tracks" (his quasi-rebelliousness against his family's wealth probably helped), he ended up at the Zen/Zon/whatever, met Jane, and the rest is history. Or infamy. Whatever. :-)

Probably not. If anything, it probably would've made things even more complicated, which would in turn have made the breakup even messier (hard as it is to believe that it *could've* been more messy).

Martin J. Pollard said:

Well, for one thing, if Jane had gone all the way with him, she would have been even more hurt when he broke up with her, and the rift between her and Daria would have been harder to heal. So it's probably a good thing that Jane didn't "jump him when she had the chance."

Jane also underestimates (and I can understand why) the role that _Tom_ played in this. I think that Tom could have had her if that's what he'd primarily been interested in -- especially if he'd taken advantage of her insecurity -- if he'd been, in other words, more like Allison.

Well, it might have been harder to heal, but at least Jane would have had some good memories of her relationship with Tom. I don't think she does, and that's part of the serious meaning behind that remark about not "jumping him when (she) had the chance."

Hmm. Jane wasn't in quite the vulnerable position with Tom that she was with Allison. Not to mention that Allison took her totally by surprise. Her own boyfriend isn't quite going to be able to do that.

And, of course, Allison failed. And not *only* because Jane is straight.

M Man

Martin J. Pollard wrote:

That's what I speculated about in "Inner Demons", though I didn't say Tom probably had sexual experience there. Tom probably dated one too many girls of the type Jordan speculated on, so he decided that the "wrong side of the tracks" would probably win him a better girlfriend, and in a way, it did, though probably not in the way he originally thought.

Yes, we all know how messy the breakup was.

Belle Book

Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid [email] (MMan37x) did write in news:[email], on the date of 19 Jun 2001:

S u s h i - p a r a s i t i c - w o r m - S P O I L E R - S P A C E [snippage]

She may never have told Jake about it; perhaps she thought that she could confide in Daria (she was still half-convinced Daria had 'done it' at that point). She's shown more willingness to talk honestly with Daria than she has with Jake or Quinn.

[snippage]

It was the first thing I thought of when Tom woke up...

[snippage]

Hmm...it sounded to me more like she was teasing Daria. Jane takes a much lighter attitude towards sex than Daria does. My guess is that Jane reversed Daria's original point about people assuming that intimacy equals sex to make a joke: since she and Tom had been intimate, she might as well have had sex with him...

-Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus

M Man wrote:

Yes, that was the only surprising thing about the news.

I'm certain it wasn't his first time. His whole behavior in that episode indicated as much. I'm not too surprised, either -- I did have an idea that Tom had had sex before meeting Jane and Daria.

Well, at least Jane's just about completely over it, since she and Daria could at least make pointed jokes (but still jokes) about it.

Perhaps part of her did want it, but she was so scared she ultimately backed out.

They were raging in "Dye! Dye! My Darling", when she and Tom kissed.

Next time I see the episode, I'll probably think of "Wake Up, Little Susie", where a couple fell asleep while watching a movie. They were innocent, too. And I would've loved to have seen the closing themes, too.

If she does, she probably should be relieved that she didn't "jump" Tom when she had the chance, though she might not see it that way. After all, if she did have sex with Tom, it might've made the break-up all the more messier.

Belle Book

The funny thing is, anyone (such as Helen) who had actually walked in to Daria's bedroom and found Tom and Daria asleep, would have realized after about three seconds of thought exactly what had happened - both fully dressed, textbooks laying on the bed, etc.

M Man

M Man wrote:

I know. I caught on very quickly to what had really happened after the first second of seeing Tom and Daria asleep. Unfortunately, the only one up at the time was Jake, and he was in the kitchen.

Belle Book

Jordan S. Bassior wrote in message news:[email]...

Any screenshots yet?

In article , Jordan S. Bassior wrote:

I think Tom was an idiot in all this. Sorry, but when your girlfriend is talking about considering being intimate for the first time with you, you don't just sit there and talk, or pull out a condom. You hold her hand, look into her eyes as you talk to her, and above all do these things in stages! If they haven't done any heavy making out, seeing eachother in some state of undress, then jumping into sex is just wrong. It sounded like Daria was actualy affraid that Tom would be disapointed in her after sex, and it was up to him to reassure her that he loves her and thinks she's beautiful.

Chris Mack said:

I think, perhaps, that Tom realized how tense Daria was about all this, and fully intended to do all this _when she came over to his house_. I do _not_ think that he intended to "just sit there and talk," nor just try to get her clothes off and get it over as fast as he could. He clearly had everything set up to make it romantic and special -- he even bought her flowers. Daria prevented him from doing this by standing him up.

Incidentally, Tom pulled out a condom because _Daria_ raised the subject of pregnancy. In fact, throughout the episode, save at the very last, Tom was simply following her lead.

Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid Invid Fan did write in news:190620010853425351%[email], on the date of 19 Jun 2001:

S u s h i - p a r a s i t i c - w o r m - S P O I L E R - S P A C E

I think you're being a bit harsh. Daria flatly told him she wanted to have sex, and they'd obviously discussed the subject before. (And of course we don't know whether they've done any heavy making out or seen each other in some stage of undress - I'm still wondering why the windows of Tom's car were steamed up at the end of "Is It Fall Yet?" ^_^ And while it was arguably crass and stupid of Tom to whip out his condom-containing wallet, he didn't do so until Daria raised the issue of birth control. He *is* still a teenaged boy, and by teenaged boy standards he could have done much, much worse.

-Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus

"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote in message news:[email]...

This

Either that, or Jody & Mack are both gay, which actually fits in even better with Jody's reaction (sorry, couldn't resist).

considering

going

subject.

Am I the only one who thought Jane was distinctly glowering right after Daria confessed she'd decided to go all the way with Tom?

bet

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he was

He was also definitely getting into the whole "candles and roses" vibe. (LOVED the dice candle.)

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reaction

I liked it too, but I could have used a few more, y'know, JOKES. I hope "Boxing Daria" is actually funny, more like Life in the Fast Lane than the last two shows. The Misery Chick and Dye, Dye My Darling dealt with serious subjects and were actually funny because of it.

Like I said, I'm not totally knocking the ep, I just think that the writers are losing touch with the comedy down the home streatch.

Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid "Chris McCubbin" did write in news:dLJX6.51648$[email], on the date of 19 Jun 2001: S u s h i - p a r a s i t i c - w o r m - S P O I L E R - S P A C E [snippage]

In my opinion, there were plenty of jokes - among my favorites were Upchuck, Kevin, and Brittany parading past Daria and Tom in Pizza King (just the thought of Brittany and Daria sharing "girl secrets" cracked me up); Jane's line about black high-heeled shoes (I laughed out loud at that one); Jane and Daria's discussion about sex ("I hope the guy's a professional wrestler"!); and sak�-befuddled Jake cornering Tom at the front door.

I also loved the scene at the end when Helen tells Daria that she'll support her no matter what and Daria tries to trap her by saying that she and Tom are going to sublimate their urges by joining a biker gang. Helen's just playing along with the joke was great - she actually surprised Daria!

I thought the subplot about Jake and the sushi parasite was pretty funny, too ("I must have gotten in from eating off infected Tupperware!"); kudos to Peggy Nicoll for connecting it to the main plot at the end. I must admit that I also laughed at Quinn's tragic struggle with Malaysian toenail fungus.

Then there's the anger management training for gorillas...in my opinion this was one of the funniest episodes of the season.

-Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus

Jordan S. Bassior wrote in message ...

Or, as another thread has suggested, Mack is gay and Jodie's covering for him. Naaaah. I agree with Jordan.

Probably a

which

As much as Daria thinks she's different from her peers, she's finding out she's got a lot of fears: rejection (what was the episode where she sent in the article?) and intimacy..physical and emotional.

I would agree the only guy Daria's touched below the waist is the art teacher at Jane's camp (closing credits of IIFY. For some reason that picture cracks me up!).

Maybe she's also a little insecure about...oh, how can I tactfully say this....not being good in bed? That would make sense considering how much she cares about Tom.

his

and

was

One might not think that a guy who would whip out a condom at the mention of sex would be understanding if he received such a phone call, but I think Tom would, if anyone would.

was

want

was

Tom

Dittos.

bet

(he

was

Even though they didn't have sex, they did achieve intimacy. Because Tom accepted Daria...even with her fears so exposed. Like most of us **know** we'll be rejected if we show that part of ourselves. And you're right, most guys would have written off a girl who no-showed an evening of romance.

really

Quinn

Quinn's motto seems to be "Look, but don't touch." Interesting that Quinn was more interested in gossip than the truth. This would have been the time for Daria to have a little talk with her sister, beginning with the phrase "Listen, you little bitch" or words to that effect.

though.

Why did Stacy start crying on the phone? Ashamed that a non-popular girl "went all the way" before she did??

see

and

it

More dittos. Moral of the story: sex and intimacy are two different things.

JL

Men who never make passes At women who wear glasses Are asses. -- Rita Rudner

I wondered about that too. I didn't even catch it when it first ran because I had the sound down low (other people sleeping). But I heard it today when I watched my tape.

I thought Stacy left crying jags behind in FLM.

Or maybe Stacy once got caught with a boy in her bed and the memory is traumatic?

M Man

Joe Lancello wrote:

I agree too. Jodie's afraid to tell her parents about having sex with Mack.

The episode was "The Story of D". And yes, she's got the same fears as many of her peers. And who can blame her for haivng fears of intimacy? She * is * inexperienced, after all.

That was an outtake. And it was kind of funny, too.

Also probably a motive for her backing out in the end.

Unfortunately, Daria apparently didn't realize that. Wish she did.

And that's the best part of the episode -- seeing Tom able to accept Daria, fears and all. He's not perfect, but he's the best guy for her at this point, at least, and we see why here.

I think Daria tried to do that, but Quinn wouldn't listen, so Daria spread the rumor about Quinn.

Interesting theory.

Agreed.

Belle Book

I'd like to think Stacy cried only because she'd just had a good night's sleep (it was 4 AM, after all) interrupted by a moronic blabbermouth with an itchy phone-finger.

I wonder if Stacy was actually awake at 4 AM. Of course she was; she had to wake up to answer the telephone. Silly me.

M Man

[email] (MMan37x) wrote in :

No it wasn't, there's a scene change between the Tom going out the door and Quinn overhearing Helen, specifically a shot with the Sun rising.

And I wouldn't call Quinn a moronic blabbermouth, perhaps not very circumspect, but that's tru of a lot of young people of what is she now about 16 ?

Well perhaps Quinn was speaking to Stacy's answering machine :)

Phill.

On 20 Jun 2001 08:30:32 GMT, [email] (MMan37x) wrote:

Yep, silly you, because it was *morning*. :-) Follow the bouncing ball along the timeline: Jake encounters Tom at 4AM, lets his drunken lips flap to Helen, Helen freaks and barges into Daria's room, lectures Daria until dawn, Quinn awakens -- BTW, she's *still* not a "morning person" -- and overhears at the wrong moment, makes a beeline for the phone, flaps her lips, makes Stacy cry, Stacy blabs to Tiffany later in school, rumors fly through the school during the day, Daria and Tom first get an inkling later that evening. So, I'd say that Quinn probably called Stacy some time after 6AM.

Know all men by these presents, that the aforesaid [email] (MMan37x) did write in news:[email], on the date of 20 Jun 2001:

S P O I L E R - S P A C E - F O R - E P . - 5 1 2 - * * * * *

Who proceeded to yell at her and call her a dope. It reminded me of the phone call in "Mart of Darkness" where Quinn gets fed up with Stacy, yells at her, and hangs up the phone as we hear Stacy wailing on the other end. I think there's no need to infer anything other than Stacy's being upset at being yelled at by someone she worships.

I don't think Quinn called her at 4 A.M.; IIRC, the sun was up - I think Helen and Daria had spent two or three hours trying to sort things out by that point.

Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus

It's a little sad if Stacy still worships Quinn after all that's happened this season. <Sigh> But it's probably as good an explanation as any.

Yes. Silly me about the timing. So Stacy had her *breakfast* interrupted by a moronic blabbermouth.

Maybe 17. Sorry, but I have to stick with the "moronic blabbermouth with an itchy phone-finger" label, at least in this episode. Not only did she go on about the horrors of dating a guy whose CD player skips, she then called Tiffany at a restaurant to rant on about it when Daria and Tom bailed.

Her first reaction to hearing Tom had been in Daria's room that night was "Phone!"

And she plays the radio too loud!

In case you haven't guessed, Quinn really pissed me off this episode. :-)

M Man

Jordan S. Bassior wrote:

Intriguing. I think I missed the full import of that line the first time. Remind me to look at that episode the next time it's on.

Not as surprising as I first thought, since those two have been dating since who-knows-when (definitely * I * don't!)

Yes, looks like Jane's a virgin. Not that losing her virginity to Tom would've saved the relationship, since the problems ran very deep.

I'm not as surprised as you, though I would've said that she at most went into heavy petting but stopped short of intercourse before this episode.

No surprise there, either. :)

Looks like the saying's true, then -- time heals all wounds. Well, most of them, at least.

She pressured herself into having sex with Tom, that was her problem -- and probably a common one among girls. Though I * do * wish she would've called Tom and told him she was backing out -- he would've understood, from what I saw of him in this episode.

Agreed on all counts. Daria's lucky on that score. Way to go indeed, Tom!

Well, she did have Helen and Jake, but most teenagers would rather talk about sex with their friends than her parents. But yes, that wasn't good of Quinn at all, and she deserved to have that rumor started about her -- turnabout's fair play. Note to Quinn: never start a rumor in the future.

Well, if you were in Daria's position, you wouldn't see it as funny, either. But yes, it was funny -- and it was an intriguing way to see the discrepancy between the rumor and what we know really happened.

Yes. Daria learned that she could have a serious relationship with Tom even without sex, and that's something all men and women should learn. Kudos indeed!

Belle Book