John Berry's Not-as-Delayed Reaction [#302 SPOILERS]

I'm gonna type in spoiler space, but the last time I did that with Dejanews, it just went in the same line instead of down. If there's no space, blame them. Thank you. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

TO&tB was very funny, but the plot seemed lacking. For some reason, I don't mind if they get rid of plot altogether for the sake of humor ("Fair Enough"), but when a plot is actually attempted and then fails, it seems more empty.

Highlights:

DeMartino's delivery of his sarcastic "interesting perspective" rant in the beginning caught me better than it usually does. I think it was the delivery. Just dripping with more sarcasm than usual.

Okay, now the weird "ghosting" effect in the film is really beginning to freak me out. Is this gonna happen all season? It seemed especially strong when Li entered the classroom.

Jake's lack of lines is also beginning to bug me. He was stuck with nothing but "Mmm" in TaLD, and both he and Helen were nothing but background characters in this episode. It's kind of a downer after Jake's climax in "The Musical."

On the upside, Kevin had some of his best "stupid" lines in this one. From reading comic books to the elderly to his suggestion on how to change Daria's voice.

Brittany does seem to be slowly, sloooowwwwllyyyy getting smarter. Must be hard for her to do with the family she has, though. I'm surprised she got along with her step mother so well, which, BTW, is dumber than a sack of toenails. She makes Brittany look like a Grove Hills scholar.

Li was at her worst, on the other hand. Her sneaky underhandedness is getting less sneaky. At least for this episode. It may just be a temporary case of Lazy Writing Syndrome. At least I'm hoping it's temporary. The same Syndrome is what caused Homer Simpson to get stupider and stupider every season.

Overall, most of the episode was funny. The Fashion Club subplot and the "happy" ending seemed tacked on though. Is it just me, or does the second episode (production number-wise) always seem a little off? "Invitation", "Daria Hunter", then this. I'm not saying they're *bad*, just... I dunno, off par.

--- John Berry

On March 4, 1999, > John Berry wrote:

I think every season they have to have at least one or two epiosodes that don't work. However if you were to ask the writers (which I hope someone will do in an interview someday), they'll probably tell you that it all sounded good on paper.

It's just the start of the season. They'll probably get more to do later.

I think they're doing a lot more with the character than in the second season. He's a perfect idiot foil for Daria.

I guess being around Daria will do that to you.

     I didn't like "Daria Hunter" after a couple watchings, but "The
Invitation" is vital because it introduces all the main characters of the show.
And there are some funny scenes there.
     From its description, I figured TOaTB to be one of those filler eps. they
put in until the more major eps. come out. It was okay. Nothing to write home
about. Altho the next episode looks to have some possibilities- A dance at
Lawndale High. Can't wait.

Jeff Morris

On 4 Mar 1999 16:41:48 GMT, [email] (JMorris830) wrote:

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Yeah, nothing wrong with filler eps. Every show has them, it's when they're ALL filler eps that a show should really be retired.

A dance. Hmm... any speculation? I almost think, just to throw us off, they WON'T throw Treant and Jesse in there, but tease us with them constantly walking on and off the set (at Janes house) for random reasons. But, I think it may be predictable. I think this ep will be the "resolution" to the Daria-Treant situation (but not a goal post). - Tarvok http://members.xoom.com/Tarvok remove NOSPAM to reply via E-mail

In article , [email] (Tarvok) wrote:

eps. they

I think that episode is set to air the week after next. The MTV schedule says that the next episode has something to do with Holidays.

[email] (Tarvok) wrote:

Don't hold your breath on that. Remember, show history indicates that all of the big eps and the D/T eps come at the end of the season. Frankly, I wouldn't expect to see a resolution until #310 or higher. And if you look at the survey results I've been keeping, you'd also see that the really good eps (in the eyes of most hard-core fans) don't usually come until the latter part of the season.

Of course, I could be wrong, and they could've decided to throw us all for a loop early on in the season. (Which, frankly, I wouldn't mind a whole lot.) ;-) Considering, however, that #307 has already aired, that just adds even more fuel to the speculation fire, should #304 be the D/T resolution ep. <g>

Oh, and next week's ep isn't "Daria Dance Party." It's "Depth Takes A Holiday." DDP isn't until the week after, so you'll have to wait 10 more days or so. The agony! <vbcg>

rich.

Jane: You're a twisted little cruller, ain't'cha?

not a goal post). << Tarvok

? There's several ways we could take this, y'know ...

Do you mean Trent will firmly tell her "no, you're too young?" (Quite possible, this would be the vanilla way of resolving the issue)

Or do you mean that Trent will become her boyfriend, but they won't have sex right off (Would make sense, neither Daria nor Trent are particularly impulsive, and Daria's both highly moral and a bit of a prude).

Or is Daria going to find someone else?

Or will Trent leave town?

A lot of possibilities ...

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Fire away......

Vanilla it might be, but I have a feeling that's how it's going to resolve. Most of the major episodes seem to be dealing with Daria's development as a person.... I think before she can truly love, she's got to feel hurt, rejection.

I....don't think so. Not unless MTV wants a lot of controversy. Of course they could become lovers, but it really doesn't seem like it's going in that direction.

That's a possibilty too. But not for a while, if ever. Wait until the fourth season.

I think our best bet is to watch and see.

Jeff

<< JMorris

Maybe, but Trent sure does seem fascinated by her ...

person .... I think before she can truly love, she's got to feel hurt, rejection. <<

(1) I think Daria's capable of love already.

(2) I think she's already been hurt and rejected a few times already.

(3) Finally, I've usually found in my personal life that hurt and rejection tends to fuel alienation and paranoia; it's usally joy and acceptance which have enabled me to open more to other people. Hurt Daria enough, from her starting position, and you'll have a catatonic on your hands.

(4) Though something as minor as Trent's rejection wouldn't be anywhere near enough to send her that far. Just one more piece of crap dumped into her life.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

JBassior wrote:

Now, wait a minute. While I agree that Daria wouldn't leap immediately into having sex with *any* boyfriend (unless the writers started smoking crack or something), I don't see any evidence that she's a "prude." *thinks for a moment* Well... since it actually means someone who's really modest, that's not entirely true. But what I mean is I don't think she's *necessarily* a prude when it comes to sex. Nor do I think that her being a moral person would prevent her from having sex with someone she felt truly committed to. The thing that would be most likely to stop her from having early sex would be the fear of disease or pregnancy, IMO. Then again, I could be wrong. It's really hard to judge a person's sexual outlook just by outward appearances...

Hmm, is it just me, or is it REALLY messed up to be discussing the sex lives (or lack thereof) of cartoon characters?

--J.

into having sex with *any* boyfriend (unless the writers started smoking crack or something), I don't see any evidence that she's a "prude." *thinks for a moment* Well... since it actually means someone who's really modest, that's not entirely true. << Jessica L.

This was actually my main point, though I'd argue that she might have some irrational inhibitions on top of the rational ones. Remember, she's not used to having a boyfriend, let alone a lover.

to sex. <<

Not necessarily a major prude, just a minor one. In case you've noticed, one of the thing's she's critical of (perhaps overly critical of) is Kevin and Brittany's overt displays of affection. Having been in Daria's shoes (um, combat boots?) at one stage of my life, I know what it feels like to not have a significant other when everyone else around me is pairing up.

Also, note her reaction to finding Jane in the closet with Bobby Big-Head. Not happy. Of course, Jane was doing something kinda stupid there ...

sex with someone she felt truly committed to. <<

You are absolutely right. Daria would have no problem (morally speaking) with making love to someone she was in love with. She is shy, though, and it would probably take her a while to feel comfortable with the whole idea.

be the fear of disease or pregnancy, IMO. <<

And heartbreak. Remember, Daria's a pessimist. And a lot more sensitive, idealistic, and even (gasp) romantic, than she lets anyone else (even Jane) realize.

(or lack thereof) of cartoon characters? <<

Not really. Animation is but another form of dramatic presentation, the characters on Daria seem a lot more real to me than those on (say) Melrose Place, and *Daria* does have some strong romantic subplots.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Maybe this is just the influence of the recent episodes, but I think Daria's main problem would be this business of caring what others think. Assuming the subject of sex came up, she'd probably spend a lot of time sweating about if doing it or not doing it would be what other people want her to do. This would be a little more complicated than contact lenses because teenage sex has social pressure on both the pro- and anti- sides. In the end, she'd probably (I hope) decide on the basis of what she thought was right and appropriate.

Lately, my opinion of Daria has been changing. In the beginning, I saw her as being very mature and competent because she was cynical and independent. Of course, she acts cynical and independent because she wants people to think she is mature and competent. Really, she's just another teenager. She's letting society control her just as much as Quinn does, except that Daria is compulsively contrary, instead of instinctively conforming.

Really, I see her recent concern over how other people perceive her as a positive development. She's becoming more complex, and not restricting herself to a few rigid rules.

On 8 Mar 99 04:30:16 GMT, Eric Stevenson wrote:

I think your going a little too far. Daria admitting she cares what other people think about her does not mean she'll be joining the FC or cheerleading any time soon. She still does think for her self.

Good insight. It is simply unnatural for a human being not to care what people thinks of him or herself. We aren't wired that way. Daria holds herself to a standard she is beginning to realize she can't uphold, and she's accepting that.

"Hi, I'm 13 and I'm just like Daria! I'm cynical and noone likes me because I make sarcastic comments all the time."

Next person I hear say that's gonna get a wet trout right between the eyes. ___ Kyle

I saw the best mind of my generation. I was looking into a mirror at the time.

Cubs Win! Cubs Win! The Good Lord wants the Cubs to win!

On the mountaintop, [email] spake thusly: <Snippage of really observant comments>

Should I?

"Hi, I'm 13. I'm cynical, and I make sarcastic comments. In that way I'm like Daria, but I realize that there are depth of character issues which make Daria as unique as I am. There are many things that make Daria who she is that simply aren't a part of my personality, and I'm not going to try to change that." Now I think I'll go to Cashman's and try on sequined gowns." <g>

-Mindy "Doesn't anyone in this town wear pants anymore?" "Is it wrong of me to take quotes from an episode I despise?"

main problem would be this business of caring what others think. << Eric Stevenson

Um ... sex is a pretty personal decision, perhaps the most personal someone can make. Daria's morals, ethics, and (yes) shyness are all strong enough that worrying about what *other* people would think of her would be pretty far down her list. Remember, she doesn't know she has a nationwide TV audience or is serving as anyone's "role model". The only people she would want to have know about it would be herself, her lover, and (maybe) Jane.

Disease and pregnancy are easily prevented; heartbreak would be Daria's major concern. She's sensitive, insecure, and inexperienced; she'd be very badly hurt by a treacherous lover. It's so hard for her to trust people in general that she would have to make a major effort to trust someone enough to let him make love to her.

was cynical and independent. Of course, she acts cynical and independent because she wants people to think she is mature and competent. <<

Both. She's very mature and competent in most ways for a 16-17 year old. But socially she's very inexperienced, sexually even more so.

Virginity isn't uncommon at that age (especially for upper middle class girls) but the evidence is strongly that Daria has never had any boyfriends or even been kissed. For her to go from that to full intercourse would be rather a large step, and Daria's a rather cautious girl.

In my opinion, she's a very special teenager.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan