Mike's Delayed Reaction Review-#402 (4-41), "Antisocial Climbers"

Mike's Delayed Reaction Review-#402 (4-41), "Antisocial Climbers"

Spoilers Space for #402 (If you don�t want to know, then don�t scroll!)

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Mike's Delayed Reaction Review-"Antisocial Climbers"

MDRR #402 (4-41) Two questions: am I getting too cynical? And are these things getting too long?

At Whom Should We Really Be Mad? � Quinn or her fan club. It�s true that she manipulates the three J�s into doing almost anything and they tend not to think too clearly around her, but they should shoulder some of the blame for forgetting the supplies. Mack, who�s probably already had more face time than in all of season three, seems to be the only one that even gets close to being mad at the three J�s. While I�m not defending Quinn for valuing her loads of unnecessary gear over food and water, but if those guys even thought about it for a second, there might not have been a problem.

Can It Be? � Did the standoff between Sandi and Quinn finally boil over into life changing occurrences? Yeah, if by �life changing,� you mean �for a couple or minutes.� Sandi temporarily had Quinn kicked out of the Fashion Club for a stupid skin care �charge� (as opposed to having a large part in stranding them without supplies). However, the expulsion became short lived when Quinn started bribing Sandi by giving her stuff. At least she did join the cheerleading squad while waiting to be reinstated.

What Was the Point? #1 � Did anyone else think that the Sick Sad World promo was somewhat gratuitous? It didn�t even really comment on any part of this episode and put an awkward pause in the scene it was in.

Made Up Word of the Week � �halternative� I thought that one was funny.

Intimacy Challenged � I�m going to go out on a limb here and say that one of the reasons that Helen and Jake are still married, is the fact that they communicate on completely different levels. This is how I would try to explain the inconsistency in their attempts at intimacy in this episode. It�s almost as if they can�t even talk to each other without an interpretation or a diversion, like Mr. DeMartino (BTW, charades has to be one of my least favorite games of any kind). The scene where Jake brings in the �snow turkey� is representative. When Helen asks him about being intimate, he gets whiny and asks if they�d not already �done that.�

Crazy � I know I just commented on the sanity of Lawndale�s faculty last week with some comments about Miss Bennett�s relative normalcy, but this episode shows just how nuts the rest of them really are. Miss Li is nothing if not consistent, she�s always looking to make a quick buck for lavish security, even if it puts her students in jeopardy. Mr. DeMartino was obviously on a half hearted suicide mission. He seems too afraid to live and too scared to die. Miss Barch, for as tough as she tries to be, folded fairly quickly in an adverse situation. Finally, Mr. O�Neill, who knows he has some sort of asthma (or else he wouldn�t have an inhaler) goes on a hike in the woods, with a lot of pollen. No wonder these kids don�t learn much.

Soul Search � I wonder exactly what Daria and Jane might have been thinking while they were braving the elements. While it isn�t the best idea to be wandering around in the woods in the middle of a blizzard and they were in danger I think they both knew that things would more than likely work out somehow. This is sort of shown through how they tried to �make piece� with each other before meeting their maker. After the appropriate apologies related to each other�s love lives, come the more wise ass remarks about being an only child and blue M&Ms.

What was the point, #2,� - �of leaving Kevin stranded in the woods, forgotten by the bus? It�s not like we haven�t seen that ending before. Let�s see if there�s a pattern: there was Sandi, left at the paintball range in The Daria Hunter; Kevin, stuck in the car with Brittany in Fair Enough; the Fashion Club, locked outside in Daria Dance Party; and, well, you get the picture.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this episode isn�t particularly bad when viewed independently for the rest of Daria-dom but when coupled with the fact that there have been a bunch of episodes with very similar scenarios played out in entirely different venues, Antisocial Climbers loses some of its luster. Maybe I should just learn to accept a filler episode here and there but, at the very least, an effort should be made to fill the filler episode with something different. That being said, I�ll have to admit that Antisocial Climbers is probably one of the stronger episodes of this ilk, if only for some of the funny one-liners and most of the Helen and Jake subplot. The only other point I�d like to make is that some of the outcomes and occurrences were a bit too easy to predict.

The Final Verdict � The Daria Hunter on the side of a mountain, but a little bit better.

Grade: B

Daria as a Whole #1, Alter-Ego of the Week � This week I�m declaring a tie between Jodie as Jimi Hendrix because it was good and Jane as a Green Beret, holding a gun because it was appropriate.

Daria as a Whole #2, Writer Watch � According to the credits, this episode was written by Jill Cargerman, a new addition to the Daria writer�s club. I�d have to say that this comes as a bit of a surprise, since this episode seemed to have �written by Peggy Nicoll� written (chuckle) all over it.

Daria as a Whole #3, Miscellaneous � It seems that Quinn has changed her shirt for good�. If I�m not mistaken, this is the first time there has been a flashback sequence that used clips from past episodes.

Copyright � 2000 Mike Quinn [All Rights Reserved]. "Daria" and all related characters are � 1997-2000 MTV Networks, Inc.

Got a question about a review? Drop me an email at: [email]

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Mike Quinn said:

(Spoilers for 402)

Oh, absolutely. Note that they drop the supplies without a second thought, and are idiotic enough not to realize why this was a bad idea even when confronted with the consequences.

Yes. He looks for a moment like he wants to kick them down the mountain, then realizes that it would be pointless. His anger's justifiable; their actions have endanged his life, and Jodie's.

If they'd been able to say "no" to Quinn. Or make the effort to carry two bags each.

I was hoping for more.

Thus showing the FC's *total* disconnection from reality.

Jake is childlike; Helen has trouble having fun.

He of course meant "making love". He doesn't grasp that Helen wants to have a calm, serious conversation.

Miss Li is being penny-wise and pound-foolish (risking her students' lives to buy equipment to ward against improbable threats). I will point out that she's not wholly evil: I think that her paranoia is a misguided maternal drive.

He didn't mean to walk off the cliff. He was trying to do something important, but not being careful enough about it.

She weakened from the effort of trying to pull Mr. O'Neill up the mountain.

Mr. O'Neill was being mindlessly PC ("nature" is "good") without really thinking about the situation he was getting into. He might have been ok if he'd stocked up on inhalers ... he didn't plan things very well. He also failed Ms. Barch.

At least they were smart enough to realize that they *could* die. That's more than anyone save O'Neil did (and his way of facing death was just plain silly).

They were serious about those.

They had to lighten up at that point. They were getting too deep with each other for comfort there. Remember, both of them have been solitary most of their lives.

It was amusing, but yes, done before.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

In article ,

I realize that, I'm talking more about the way he was talking about going and looking for, whatever. It just seemed to me that he felt defeated.

Good point.

I'm not denying that

Would it be fair to say that you think that by lightening things up a bit they were trying either a) to not become to obsessed with the possibility of freezing to death, b) get mad or overly frustrated at what they could have done differently or c) not start an argument

Frankly I'm surprised anyone replied this fast.

see ya,

Mike Quinn [email]

Michael J. Quinn said:

Very good point. Well, in general it was a pretty dark situation, and they didn't want to let it get any darker.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Jordan S. Bassior wrote:

I can speak to that.That scene stuck a real chord with me. I once found myself in a similar circumstance. (It was with a boy scout troop instead of a school group, and I remember the day: Saturday, March 8, 1975. Experiences like that, you tend to remember, even a quarter-century later.)

I'd say they were aware of the seriousness of the situation, confident, with the bravado of youth, in their ability to deal with it, and intelligent enough to know that dwelling on the darkness of the situation wasn't likely to improve things, so just "get on with it."

Peace Kevin

In article ,

Most of the students probably realize what these guys minds are like with Quinn around and blame her.

You would think someone else would notice the situation that the 3 J's left them all in. Daria and Jane knew, but you think stop them from wrecking a perfectly good lynching?:P

After almost 2 years(Lawndale time) it's about time they either confront Quinn about leading them on and finally choose one of them, or stop being her servants, its up to them to grow a spine.

Am I the only one who sees Sandi as a hypocrite here? After looking to kick Quinn out and finally getting an opprotunity, a pair of earmuffs gets her back in? She could of easily humiliated Quinn there but missed the opprotunity.

Something is developing here. Probably a trial seperation, but possibly much worse. What effect will this have on Daria and Quinn, we will probably find out soon.

Agreed.

He realized no one else would go out, and took the risk himself, he'd probably rather die doing that than with his processed sausages, I mean students.

There may be more coming with this, but I don't see it.

Simply put, those were heartfelt feelings from people who rarely show their feelings. They honestly meant every thing they said, including the blue M&M's.

True.

A.J.

On 07 Mar 2000 20:04:33 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

Ain't seen the episode yet, so bear with my comments. As for why I'm "spoiling" it... if knowing the plot ruined it for me, I'd never be able to re-read a book. (Spoiler left for those who feel otherwise.)

(But stuff I have no comment for snipped out.)

Surprising. If one had thought it might impress her with how "Big tough and manly" he was, al three of them would have done it. Even by lackey standards, they're stupid...

So when you say he's childlike, you mean he's not even pre-adolescent...

(Snip)

Must have been a damn big mountain, if it could support blizzards *and* pollen...

Mediocre attempt at a running gag, perhaps.

Yes. He's smarter than a lot of the teachers, though... that's his problem.

Well, there are some episodes where you find out something new about the characters... but you can't have them every week, since it would be hard to get all the writers to agree, and you don't want that many changes anyway (someone who misses a couple episodes should know what's going on). Admittedly, this one is a formula that has been done before... they're better off with ones that form a strong commentary on an issue, like "Arts 'n Crass" or "The Lost Girls" which were, in my opinion, some of the best episodes made despite not significantly changing the continuity of the episodes.

Dagny

http://firefly.cc.st

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Daria code: Ap D+ T5 W1 Q+ Fn^Fr O+ OH m c MV- C5X F:113,201,305 BB+ FCJ -DT+ q+ fT^fD

On Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:36:21 GMT, Mike Quinn wrote:

I forget. What do those numbers, (4-41), mean?

When I saw that, I was thinking "What? Why are they going after *Quinn*?" Granted, Quinn did pack too many unnecessary items, but she didn't exactly tell those boys to leave all the other supplies behind either. Those 3 J's need some backbone implants, and soon.

It's getting to be a joke. Quinn was kicked out for forgetting skin-saving liquid (or something like that) and was accepted back for a pair of ostrich feather ear muffs. What a cop out.

Unrelated Sick Sad World promos! Did the writers run out of ideas, or were they just stoned! Next, on Sick Sad World!

Jake is a childish man, who prefers simplicity over complexity. He doesn't have an inner child, he IS the inner child. Helen, on the opposite spectrum, is a highly intellectual individual who appears to be quite a complex woman. This means that she has more complex needs as well. Notice that she's the one who's trying to "fix" the marriage, not Jake. Jake, I feel, thinks everything is hunky dory, and can't quite understand why Helen is making him do all this intimacy training. But being the simpleton that he is, he goes along anyway. Helen, on the other hand, is worried that they aren't as communicative as she would like them to be and tries hard to remedy the situation.

To be honest, I'm rather concerned about the future of their marriage. They do seem to want to stay married, but it doesn't look like it's going to be a very happy one - aside from the occasional roll in the hay. The constant arguments, misunderstandings, and lack of communication are not good signs. And if Eric, Helen's colleague, actually acts on his suspected feelings for Helen, there are going to be major sparks flying. I do believe that Jake and Helen love each other. But sometimes love just ain't enough (that's a song!).

And what's with the expensive camera backpack? She couldn't get a *regular* portable video camera for this? She obviously knew that Mr O'Neill had breathing problems, and she still insisted that he carry the heavy camera equipment. She should be sued for utter disregard for her employee's health. What if Mr. O'Neill *did* die in that snowstorm? She'd really be in trouble then.

Okay this is my theory on this. Remember when Mr. DeMartino was translating Ms. Barch's murmurs? She mentioned something about Mr. O'Neill "abandoning" her "just like all the other men" when he went down the hill to look for an extra inhaler. This was after she had pulled him up the hill. Remember that flashback when she swore that she would "never pull a man's weight again"? Prompted by her love for him, she *did* end up "pulling his weight."

But when O'Neill left to look for his inhaler, she felt like her work was all for naught. She felt betrayed and abandoned, which brought back memories of her ex-husband. Granted, it wasn't entirely O'Neill's fault, but she felt that way anyway. This is why she was shaky all over when she was in the cabin. At least, that's what I think.

I agree with Jordan on this. They realized that they were touching on serious issues, and because they aren't the type to get all touchy-feely (even at the brink of death), they decided to lighten the mood. Besides, discussing depressing stuff like that further would make them more pessimistic than they already are.

To me, this episode was very much a generic popcorn-movie kind of ep. Not too lighthearted, and not too serious. Like your regular run-of-the-mill sitcom. In fact, it was too much like a regular sitcom. If I wanted generic comedy, I'd watch Must See TV. Still, it's by far the best of the ensemble cast eps. As you said, an actual meaningful subplot, and some *damn* hilarious moments.

It snowed *again*! Yet another clue to the Lawndale location, and more flogging of the dead horse that is the "Where is Lawndale" question!

Didn't she direct or produce it? I remember seeing her name *somewhere*...

Did anyone else love the new outfits that everyone wore? I really liked Daria and Jane's look, not only because those are cool clothes, but also because it's just so rare to see them wear anything else. I'm not a fashion victim or anything, I just think it was refreshing to see them in a new perspective. Break out of the mold, so to speak.

And was I the only one who noticed the Blair Witch parody? O'Neill's little one-on-one with the camera certainly looked like it. This scene alone lowers the grade on this ep. I am just so sick of all the Blair Witch parodies - it's just so bloody overdone.

Cheers, Nicole Lee

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny..." -- Isaac Asimov

"No, no, no, Lisa. If adults don't like their jobs, they don't go on strike. They just go in every day and do it really half-assed." -- Homer Simpson

Daria Code: A D T3 Ws Q+ FN^Fr O- OH+Oo+Od m- c+++ MV C5X F:111,213,313,401 BB- FCD +DT q fN

On Wed, 08 Mar 2000 03:08:46 GMT, [email] (Nicole Lee) wrote:

I'm sorry, but I'm not a good observer and my interpreting abilities are not very well developed. Is it so unusual that a SSW promo is unrelated to the rest of the show? How is the toll collector thing in Lane Miserables related to the story? And the foot odor thing in The Old and the Beautiful? (And don't tell me that it's because old people have foot odor, that's not a real connection) And the alien restrooms in It Happened One Nut? The other SSW snippets I've looked at are as I perceive them usually just very very loosely related to the episode, like the supreme court judges thing in The Big House. It has a court in it but that's the closest it gets to the plot of the episode. Please enlighten me. MSB

---- Have you seen this meal before? Restaurant Restroom Recycling - Next on SSW!

In article , [email] (MSB) wrote:

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All of you say is true, but in this particular case the TV was turned on for the SSW line and then turned off right away, and I was making the point that the scene was awkwardly interupted (though, sometimes the SSW promos fit into the episode. See DepthTakes a Holiday)

Mike Quinn [email]

Nicole said:

(Spoilers for 402)

Well ... Quinn was being amazingly stupid packing three bags for a hike up a mountain. She was then amazingly selfish giving them to the three J's to carry. They were amazingly spineless to do this for her, and incredibly stupid to leave the real supplies behind to do this. I'd call it mixed responsibiity, but more the fault of the J's (since they *should* have told her "no" or carried two bags each).

Yes. He was denied the chance to be childish *as* a child, so he now treats Helen as if she was his mother ... which is easy because Helen is very maternal ... in every way but the sexual. And even the sexual aspects of their marriage are probably "play" to him. He really does love her, but not in a very mature way.

Much like Daria.

If Jake doesn't wise up, he's going to lose Helen.

Exactly.

They foreshadowed this, particularly in "Daria!"

Yes, that's true. In particular Helen needs someone who can relate to her as an adult, whom she can discuss her genuine concerns with without him panicking.

Ms. Li, as usual, got carried away with her glory-seeking, ignoring the practical realities of the situation. Well, what do you expect from a woman who wants armored skylights for her gym?

I agree. Remember, for Janet, opening herself to love Timothy was a major step; she acted impulsively in "The Daria Hunter," but we have absolutely no reason to assume she did so lightly. Janet was probably hurt a *lot* when Timothy ran down the mountain.

I'm also glad that they realized that Daria had too much common sense to go hiking up the side of a mountain in winter wearing a short skirt baring her knees ... by contrast, the Fashion Club were wearing bare midriff outfits, and Tiffany was actually wearing her mini! Quinn was particularly silly wearing a scarf *and* a bare-midriff shirt.

Yes. Marie and I noticed this too.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

In article ,

Climbers"

scroll!)

Officially, it's the order in which the episode was first aired (this was the 41st episode aired). Practiacally, it's how I keep track of them on my network drive.

She was credited as "Story Editor"

Mike Quinn [email]