Happy Thanksgiving

Just wanted to send out a "Happy Thanksgiving" to all the Daria fans out there! Have a happy holiday!

Happy Thanksgiving.

Please, noone say "Turkey Day". It cheapens the holiday into a time for overeating and sports. There are 364 days for that, let's take one for overeating, sports, and giving thanks.

On 26 Nov 1998 00:46:48 GMT, [email] (Laniakea) wrote:

Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister...

On 26 Nov 1998 02:09:43 GMT, [email] (Kyle) wrote:

I too would like to take a moment to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving. In an hour I will be on my way to Kentucky to visit family, eat, and pretend I like football.

I'll be gone until Sunday so feel free to break into my house and take anything you want while I'm away.

Happy Thanksgiving.

- Oh! that's a meat thermometer? Well I don't have a fever, that's for sure. -Ben Katz

Happydude of MagicNet, Inc. writes:

Party at Happydude's! Now, who has the address?

Laniakea wrote:

Hey! There's Daria fans in the UK, too! I don't get a fucking holiday. I get two whole weeks of exams, and my Art exam is tomorrow!!! I have to sit there, painting little circles (I'm doing a piece influenced by Varasely - bad idea) ALL DAY!! I can't even concentrate for the hour-long lessons, and this is *six* hours! We aren't allowed to talk, and we can't even bring in personal stereos, which is not fair 'cos last year's year 11 did. I'll stop compaining now. Bye. :)

Alli

So is Op Art back in fashion or something? I guess I'm a bit out of touch with the art world, when I was at school we were mostly into the Surrealists (Yves Tanguy was my favourite).

It's remarkable how an exam can concentrate the mind though. Speaking of time, my newsreader says that you're posting your messages 8 hours before you've written them (the one I'm replying to now won't have been written for another hour yet according to the header). Useful trick if you can pull it off in your exams too. I think your computer clock is set to the Pacific time zone.

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

Wow...from Mervyn Peake to Tanguy...is there no end to the coolness that is alt.tv.daria. I have a Tanguy T-shirt...everyone always thinks it's Dali (No, that's that *other* shirt I always wear).

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"'Thin Thighs For Your Man.' But I don't *like* men with thin thighs" --Daria

N.P.:"Fingers II"- B l u e M o t i o n

Yes, Tanguy is a bit like some of Dali's plastic forms. I like the ones of squiggly little pebbly objects that seem to be perched on the shores of eternity. Actually that image makes me think of the endless virtual beach in Neuromancer. I have some Tanguy postcards somewhere, I didn't know there were tshirts too. I should scan one of them in for my Last Stop Cafe website, it would fit right in.

-Shez.

Shez wrote in message ...

Please, Shez, can it be the one called something like "Suffering softens pebbles"?

There is a bit of Tanguy online already. Not all the images at www.tanguy.org/ actually work, but the links might be worth exploring.

Octavio Ocampo is one painter I get enthusiastic about (won't bore you with the others). His "Metamorphic" art is arresting, to say the least, once you spend time looking at it. Nothing much online, AFAIK, only one of his (IMHO) lesser works, at http://www.valuenetwork.com/business/visualconcepts.html

I'm told there's a place in Leeds that exhibits some prints; a gallery in York has a few, though not the one I was looking for (still, nice day out in York, anyway). I bought my first (and, so far, only) Ocampo print in the craft centre in the former RAF Hemswell missile base in Lincolnshire.

The one I've got is "Calvary." A visiting friend saw it, changed holiday plans, and drove 80 miles to buy a print!

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

Yeah, I like some of his work. I like Richard Oelze, he does theserather gloomy paintings with like, oh, it's so hard to explain. I don't know if any of his stuff is online, so I can't give you a link. It's sort of like animals, weird ambiguous creatures, all sort of stuck together like rocks or something, like ones that have been there for millions of years. Usually they're all the same colour, and they all have their eyes open, and it's quite eerie to look at because it looks so still and quiet. It's weird.

Alli

Progbear wrote:

No, there isn't. Cool TV shows have cool newsgroups. :)

I like Dal�'s work. I was looking through a book of his stuff in class once, and within 10 minutes all the girls were looking at the painings going "Eww! That is so gross!" and all the guys were looking and going "Hey, you can see that woman's tits!" Isn't it strange how art can be interpreted differently by the different sexes?

Alli

Shez wrote:

I've done some work on Surrealism. I think Art Nouveauis pretty popular, and Pop Art. I think I'm the only one who's done any Op Art, but it all depends on what question you pick for your coursework/exam, 'cos it'll say to look at Picasso's still life, or design a mural for a public place in the style of Lichtenstein, or something like that. Some are more vague than that, I picked one about the patterns on shells. I thought the little dots in Varasely's work looked like that, sort of. It was a stupid idea, really, 'cos it was really hard to do.

Yeah. I think the incredible fear of not being ableto finish in the allocated time drove me into some medetative state which enabled me to concentrate for more than ten minutes at a stretch. Odd, that. :)

I'll check that (or better, get someone else to). I'm nogood with computers. I'm posting now from one of our other computers, (my dad buys a new one, like, every year, so we've got about four) because the one I was using before started making funny noises and then stopped working while I was using it, so guess who's gonna get the blame for that. :)

Alli

Exams exist in an alternate universe where time stands still for three hours before suddenly jumping to five minutes before the finishing time. Three seconds later those last five minutes have gone. This is usually just long enough for your entire life (which, if you didn't revise, is now over) to flash before your eyes.

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

I remember my SATs two years ago. Exams are done in the gym or in the sports hall, and in both of those places it's either freezing cold or boiling hot, and on this particular week it was so cold I couldn't write, I had to sit there for 10 minutes at the beginning of each exam waiting for my hands to warm up. Of course, it would have helped if we hadn't been made to stand outside for 15 minutes before each exam without coats on or anything, and also if we could have done the SATs *after* the year 10 exams, GCSEs and A levels had been taken by the older students rather than before so it wouldn't have been *snowing* but logic appears to escape the minds of teachers when it comes to exam timetabling. Speaking of which, the reason I was stressed out about the Art exam before, was that we were told we had 3 weeks to prepare, but then they moved the exam forward by a week and a half to avoid 'clashes in the timetable' (which had proved to be no particular problem for anyone) leaving us all totally unprepared for the exam. I'm done ranting now, so I'll shut up.

Alli

What are SATs? I thought they were just some American thing. At least you're the first non-American I've ever heard mention the word. I thought they were just the US version of GCSEs or something.

Just to bring in a smidgen of topicality, I took a look at one of the Daria websites and realised I've not seen any season 1 episodes yet, just 10 from season 2. I guess this means I've lots to look forward to, but only if C5 decide to rerun them (assumung they ran them in the first place).

On the thing about having to line up outside without a coat on, I think schools see exams as some sort of ritual thing. Ideally they'd have everyone line up naked and maybe beat them with birch twigs in a purification ritual, but what with the protection of children act and everything they have to settle for just making you stand in the snow with no coat on. Hey, that reminds me of an episode of some weird TV series, possibly the Demon Headmaster or something.

BTW, what's this "endless, nameless" thing? It sounds like a Taoist or maybe Buddhist reference.

-Shez.

On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:30:10 +0000, Shez wrote:

www.daria.org (if you have real player, if not you can download it for free at www.real.com) gives you all the ep's but one, on the web, commercial free.

Hey, now! If you are going to call Alli a thing, we'll have to kick you out of this newsgroup!

Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister...

Kyle of writes:

Thanks, but I guess they take a while to d/l. C5 shows them commercial free anyway, as it happens.

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

SAT=Scholastic Aptitude Test. Sort of a college preperatory exam, which a lot of parents get all in a tizzy about. Supposedly the score you get on it determines what sort of college you'll get into and, in turn, your whole future...but people like me see it for what it is--a whole lot of B.S. (And if you think that's bad, how about the PSAT, Pre-SAT) Remember Ramona's "My First SAT Prep" reader, or whatever it was called, from "College Bored"? The SAT is famous for the "analogy" questions (e.g.: "Quinn is to Daria as mosquito is to ______").

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"Parece cosa de maligno. Los pianos no estallan por casualidad." --Gabriel Garcia Marquez

N.P.:"Fascist Christ"- T o d d R u n d g r e n (T R - I) / N o W o r l d O r d e r

Shez wrote:

I think they're a different thing over there, but in the UK they're StandardisedAssesment Tests or something like that, and you take them when you're 7, 11 and 14. People my age or older will have only done them at age 14, they were only given to 11 and 7 year olds *after* I was 11, thankfully. You take them in

several different subjects, mine were for Maths, Science and English, and I got

level 8, 7 and 6 respectively. Level 8 is apparently very good, I was one of 3 people in my school to get that in that year. I think it goes up to level 10, and that's equivalent to A* at GCSE, but no 14 year old is expected to get that.

I think they ran all of them, I'm not sure about The Misery Chick, though.I haven't seen The New Kid yet, but I know they've shown it. It's on tomorrow, actually.

We have to wait in alphabetical order, so I always go in last but one,'cos my second name's Yannacopoulou (before anyone asks, it's Greek) and there's some guy called Youngman or something. I think it's some pathetic way of preventing us from talking, but it doesn't stop anyone, because out of the two people you're gonna be standing next to, you're bound to be on speaking terms with at least one of them.

I haven't seen that, but I'd assume that the name is fairly representative of the show's subject matter. We don't have a 'demon headmaster', we did have a demon headmistress but she left after she went mad. I'd say she was already mad, but aren't all teachers?

LOL. Yeah, it could be, but it's actually the name of the hidden track onNirvana's Nevermind! Nirvana - Buddhist - pretty close, I guess. :)

Alli

I realised on watching it just now that I'd seen part of it before, back in the days before I was a Daria fan (ie. earlier this year). I like the web hits bit at the end. TV without violence just wouldn't be TV.

There seems to be some inconsistency between episodes about who the fashion club members think Daria is, last week she was Quinn's "cousin" but this week she was just some random girl that Quinn wants to help. Are the episodes being shown out of order? I hate it when broadcasters shuffle the episodes of a series 'cos they're too ignorant to realise there are subtle subplots that progress from week to week.

In the episode in question these prefects (who are under the hypnotic control of the headmaster) make a couple of kids stay out in the playground without their coats for a couple of hours and clear up all the snow, as punishment for wanting to have fun at breaktime.

I always thought that was just part of Something In The Way, though I did wonder why they downed instruments for 10 minutes in the middle. It gives you time to go make a cup of coffee though.

Bjork's Debut is a bit like that, some versions of the album have a minute-long countdown at the end followed by an extra track, Play Dead, which I think is the best one on the album.

I wonder if Nirvana were into buddhism or anything or whether they just thought the name was cool. There was a Dilbert cartoon once where they mention the geek equivalent, nerdvana.

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

Yeah. But it can be too much sometimes. Like in the filmCasino, they've got that guy's head in a fucking *vice*, and I had no idea if they were actually gonna squish his brains out or not!

Yeah, that's really annoying. Who was it who posted what the C5annoncer-person had been saying to introduce each episode? Well, today, it was "And now on channel 5, some cartoon fun!" Fun. Yearbook. Fashion Club. Sure.

When we were in year 7, without fail we'd be locked in the LowerSchool building when the sun was out, and shut in the playground whenever the temperature dropped below 5 degrees. I never managed to find any logic in this. Oh, yeah, and when it snowed (the one winter weather condition that a 12 year old *wants* to be outside for) we'd be inside again, to prevent us from having any fun, ie snowball fights. Of course, now we're in year 11, we're allowed to go in the hall or outside whenever we want, because noone listens to teachers when you're bigger than they are.

That's a use for a hidden track, I guess.

Kenickie (recently deceased) had one on their first album, andit's hilarious! It's called Montrose Gimps It Up For Charity, and is basically bassist Emmy-Kate Montrose singing some song that includes the lines "I've been jumping around the scaffolding for quite some time now when I saw your pretty face looking through the windows when you were cleaning the windows.... I like your shoes, I like your groove, so come on!" and all the other band members standing around laughing. Or, worse, Ash had one on 1977, which was a recording of their bassist (what is it with bassists?) vomiting and urinating all over the floor in a drunken stupor. Lovely.

Neither, apparently. I think they liked it at first, but then got a bit tired of it, especially when they had to pay out $50 000 to another Nirvana who were around in the '60s. Courtney Love is a Buddhist, though, but Nirvana had been Nirvana for several years before she appeared.

I didn't see that. What is Dilbert anyway?

Alli

But as they said on the Fry & Laurie show once, "You could take the sex and violence out of TV, but where would you put it?"

School Yearbooks are another of those curious American things. I never knew what one was until recently. Angela Chase summed it up pretty well in the My So-Called Life yearbook episode when she tells her teacher why she doesn't want to be involved with the yearbook:

"People make this book, to supposedly remember what happened. But in fact they put in what was supposed to happen, because if you made a book of what *really* happened, it would be a really upsetting book."

Power. Power corrupts. It brings out the sadist in people. I think teachers fall into two categories, those misguided souls who want to indoctrinate the nation's youth to make the world a better place; and those who enjoy the sense of absolute power that comes from being in charge of people who are much smaller and weaker than they are.

A comic strip about office life (at some software company IIRC). I think there's a daily or weekly web version though I don't know the URL. It's sindicated in some computer magazines and newspapers though. Dilbert also has a dog called Dogbert, in fact I think it was the dog that coined the term "nerdvana". It's sort of a Calvin & Hobbes for grownups in a way (always supposing C&H aren't for grownups).

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

That's a very good.point. But still, some is fine. But not too much.

LOL. I never understood the concept of the yearbook. And the prom. What's with that? There's so much that could go wrong, I mean, what if you can't get a date? Then you can't go. What if you can't afford to buy good clothes? It's just.... stupid. Pointless, really. Why have all these things to remember your high school years when they were the worst years of your life? We just got a crappy photo of the whole year together. Oh, yeah, and on the last day of school there's this sort of ritual where everyone signs everyone else's shirt. I've still got mine from when I left primary school, it's got all these signatures of people I haven't spoken to for five years. Someone wrote "Guns 'n' Roses Rule!!!" accross the back, which is kinda depressing, I always hated Guns 'n' Roses.

Ah, but most of the older students are both bigger and strongerthan the teachers. And it's amusing when I get told off by a teacher who, with her four-inch heels on, is still a good 6 inches shorter than me. Hehehehe.

I'll have to watch that. :)

Alli

Shez wrote:

Yeah. Do you have younger siblings? I've got a 12 year oldbrother, and I'd like to hit him 3000 times.

Oh yeah. I can imagine why that would be fun.

Why did they cancel it? I watched it when it was first on,but I was about 12 and I didn't really get it then. But thinking back, some of it is so true to life, "I bet it's possible to die of embarrasment. I bet it's been medically proven," or whatever she said. That was so annoying that it got cancelled.

Ah, I saw Carrie. I mentioned it here not long ago. Actually,the bit I found most disturbing was Carrie getting locked in that little room by her mother - that hit much too close to home for me. That thing with the pig's blood, I was just waiting for them to pull the rope and it took so long! Suspense is sooo annoying sometimes. But it would have been a worse movie without the suspense.

Alli

You mean you haven't already? Get with it. Before you know it, he'll be all grown up and able to hit back.

Eric Stevenson wrote:

I probably have. I've attacked him with a chair, I know that (it was just the first thing that I picked up, OK?). The good thing is that by the time he gets big enough to hit back, I'll be away at Uni, hopefully, so I won't have to deal with him. :)

Alli

But without annoying BBC announcers, Monty Python would have missed out on making about half their jokes on Flying Circus.

Always looking on the bright side of life (is that allowed on this newsgroup?),

Dagny

Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697 Monty Python, Spike Milligan, Marx Brothers and More!

"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche

"The Misery Chick" is an interesting one. First, they showed all of season 1 up to "Teachings Of Don Jake". Then they decided to stop there and rerun season 1 again. They stopped at "Road Worrier", and Daria disappeared for months. They finally showed "The Misery Chick" when they decided to run season 2, and it hasn't had a second showing yet.

I'm starting to get curious now, what is the ratio of English to American posters here? Originally I was the only English regular, now there's Alli and a few others.

Shadowcloak [email] (NOT @aol) http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/7252/

"Oh, no. The toilet is talking to me again." - Jane Lane

Shadoc64 wrote in message ...

and a

Good question. There's also at least one guy from France. I guess most of us have web access, so I've cooked up a web-based survey!

Go to http://www.sylvesternet.freeserve.co.uk/members/daria/survey.htm to participate.

Martin.

Shez wrote in message ...

Standard Assessment Tests, or Standard(ised) Assessment (Achievement) Tasks, or (in the USA) Scholastic Aptitude Test (TM). Used, in the UK, with GCSE results to measure the standards of teaching in a school. SATs are taken at 7, 11, and 14. It goes something like this: Look at the last SATs, predict likely grades for the next SATs (or the GCSEs), then compare actual grades: (actual)>(predicted)=good, (actual)<(predicted)=bad.

If only I could say the same! (I'm a school governor.) The introduction of SATs has put a lot of teachers under stress. But it is better than just measuring GCSE results, since it lets you see what the school has achieved rather than simply what the school's intake of pupils is like. One of the schools I govern recently scored (I think) CC compared to *all* schools, and (I know) AA compared to all *similar* schools!

They did run them, and I hope they repeat them. I've got seven unseen First Series episodes to look forward to! <smug grin>

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

<even more smug grin> Well *I* have cable, so I don't have to watch themon shitty C5! :) I don't like the idea of watching a channel that started itself with by showing the Spice Girls, so I like to avoid C5.

Alli

Martin Sylvester wrote:

And of course they always predict lower than they think you're goingto get, because if they say you'll get a higher grade than you actually get, the teacher gets fired. And if the results are looking a bit pathetic from all schools, the Exam Board just change the grade boundries so that everyone gets a higher grade, so I'm told. :)

Yeah, 'cos they don't enter people if they think they're going to geta U, do they? Oh, yeah, and if they haven't handed in enough coursework.

'Similar'? What, ones getting the same results as them?, or ones taking in similar pupils?

Alli

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

That can be done if the teacher is free to predict on subjective opinion. But if you're using objective SAT data, and a mathematical model to arrive at the prediction, and the teacher in question isn't the one running the calculation... I think the practice you refer to is one of the things SATs were brought in to defeat.

Wasn't there a lot of suspicion recently when A level grades suddenly jumped up? The Boards deny any tomfoolery....

do

You do need to keep an eye on the proportion of pupils entered for exams, in case the staff deny people an opportunity to take an exam for fear they'd mess up their pretty figures. OFSTED inspectors look out for this, and so should governors. You can't keep pupils away from SATs, so the 7/11/14 progression is still there to be measured.

and

Similar pupils. Social indicators like the proportion of children with free school meals are factored in. I'm simplifying for the sake of clarity (but our latest OFSTED report will soon be online, huzzah!).

I guess this is not the best time to be discussing the exam system! Sorry, Alli!

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

But it still happens in the GCSEs, according to my Frnench teacher.Last year, all the GCSE grades she predicted were wrong because she'd said they'd be lower than they were. That happens a lot, she says, in the GCSEs. But I don't know about the SATs.

LOL. Suuure...

OFSTED. Ah, yes. We had the inspectors in earlier this year. It's quitefunny to see how some teachers react to that. Our Electronics teacher refrained from making his usual racist comments directed at this one American boy in the class, and my French teacher (not the one I mentioned before) managed to remember all his stuff; pens, cassettes, everything. Also, these beautiful displays of students' work suddenly appeared all around the school, and the canteen suddenly decided to have an 'Italian week', ie, they put up posters of places in Italy on the walls and served Spaghetti every day.

Yeah, especially as I'm reading messages about exams rather than actually *revising* or anything....better go do some work.....later...

Alli

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

in

year,

Are we talking about the same thing? Teachers still make subjective predictions about individual pupils' grades, but in measuring the standards in a school one would want to see how the objectively calculated averaged predictions for the school, or for a department, compare to the real outcomes. "In an average school, with these SATs scores for this year group, one would expect x passes at GCSE; in this school there were y passes. Over the last three years, results exceeded/fell below the average prediction by z%. There were m people measured. These figures have a confidence rating of n." Of course the model will improve in accuracy as more data become available (not only adjusting the model in the light of more datasets processed, but also as the data at ages 7 & 11 becomes available). It seems a more objective method than leaving individual teachers to set their own targets ("Oh, look, I exceeded them again!"). Whether it will work is another question!

quitefunny to

LOL! There's little as entertaining as seeing your teachers enter Headless Chicken Mode. I suppose it might mean a bit of variety (Variety? Spaghetti every day?) in the canteen once every three years. Did you get yourself a copy of the full report and compare it to your own experience? Did the inspectors spot the pantomime?

Sorry,

Yep. Last thing you want to do is get it all into perspective. Until the exams are over, anyway. 8-)

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

Hehehe. I was actually a good little girl for that week, but only because Iknew I'd be in for it after the Inspectors had gone if I threw ink at the racist Electronics teacher I mentioned. He wears this white coat, you see, and it's sometimes very hard to resist squirting ink on people who're wearing white coats for me, especially when they pick on that American guy, 'cos I like him....

The school were apparently very proud of the report, they sent copieshome to our parents just to show off. But it was all a load of crap, really. we did have one teacher who didn't give a crap about OFSTED, he called one inspecter arrogant and annoying to her face!

Hehehe. We've got two tomorrow: English Language, and Physics.English exams are always the worst, I think. I don't know *how* I managed to get into set 1 for English, I'm terrible at it!

Alli

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

Headless

Iknew

Do you have a bad memory related to people in white coats? <g>

Vavavavoom? (Sorry!)

to our

'Tain't necessarily so. They're legally obliged to send a copy of the summary report to every parent, and to tell the parents that they can demand a copy of the complete report.

Fine example. No, really! Commendable: (i) refusing to be intimidated by someone with power and (ii) choosing to be upfront instead of bitching about her behind her back. (Not commendable: giving in to impatience?)

are

That would have been a dream day for me, English and Physics. They put me in advanced maths, and I could never work out why. Especially when I got the O/A result (O/As were an exam at sixteen pitched somehere between O level - GCSE A to C - and A level).

Good luck, Alli.

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

Possibly. But actually, it's more to do with wanting to be four years old again, you know, like when your parents had just decorated, and you scribbled all over the walls? You must have done that at least once, I'm sure everyone has. I can't possibly be the only one.

Shut up! :)

I wasn't there, but I'm told it was because she was trying to tell him how to teach his form or something, and he got annoyed. I find that strange, he's not usually too irritable, so I think he just did it to make his class laugh.

Physics, I can do. English, no. For some reason, I've alwaysbeen very good at the subjects that boys are generally better at, and bad at the ones that girls are supposed to be good at. For example, I was crap at Textiles and HE, but good at Electronics and Physics. Strange. Sort of.

Thanks. I'm gonna need it!

Alli

Shez wrote:

That can't be true! Come on, has noone here done that?I was a terrible child, I really was. That wall/crayon/scribbling incident was one of many very very bad things I did. It was 'cos my mother was busy and I wanted attention and I decided to get revenge by adding my own decorations to the newly-painted walls. Another one: I was about two. We were staying in some hotel, we'd just arrived, and my parents had turned their backs for about 30 seconds, and in that time I had taken the hotel room telephone to pieces and was in the process of scatteriing its remains all over the room. Oh, and another: when I was at play group, I took all the brand-new felt-tipped pens and dipped the drawring end in glue, ruining the lot of them. Then, I wandered off and looked innocent when the teacher questioned us about the pens.

I never ate crayons. I may have force-fed them to mybrother at some time, but I don't think I ever ate them myself.

I don't like Chemistry. Biology's worse, our teacher is soooboring, she just repeats everything she says about 50 times. For Physics, we've got a really good teacher who gets us to learn stuff by telling us these little anecdotes and talking about his mad grandmother and his wife and kids and stuff, which sounds like it would be very boring but is actually truly hilarious the way he tells it. And, oddly enough, he manages to relate most of it to what he's trying to teach, and I'm never quite sure how.

I've never been accused of cheating, possibly because myessays are so appallingly bad that I'd have had to have got my 12 year old brother to do them for me, and noone on earth would be dumb enough to do that!

My teacher usually refuses to even mark my essays. She's got this really high-pitched Scottish voice, and she sort of screeches at me so the whole class can hear. "Take it back! It's rubbish! I can't even mark this, if you wrote this in the exam you'd fail! It's terrible! Here, do it again!" Of course, I always do better in the exam, because it's, like, you've got adrenaline or something. With non-exam things, it's like, you've got 8 weeks to do this so I just leave it until the last minute. You can't do that in the exam! It's *all* the last minute!

Alli

I was (am, I don't like thinking of myself as almost grown up at 16) an incredibly shy child. BTW, where's your sig?

On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:42:51 -0800, "endless, nameless" wrote:

___

Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister...

Another Nugget of Knowledge from the Wonderful World of Kyle(TM), ICQ#12773280

Kyle wrote:

I wasn't too shy when I was younger. I am kinda shynow, but I'm improving. I still like to sit in a corner not saying anything, but I have now discovered that there are people on the planet who're worth talking to. Sort of.

The hard disk on the 'good' computer melted. I'musing one of the 'bad' computers, now, and I have yet to figure out how everything works, and it's got all different applications and stuff, and I'd only just gotten used to the other one, and it's all so confusing! One day, I'll find out how to create a new sig, but for now I'm concentrating on finding out how to work Netscape, which is broken or something....

Alli

Alli aka endless, nameless wrote in message ...

First demonstration of your interest in electronics!

My brother gave me a battery, some bits of wire, a bell, some bulbs and so on to play with when I was four, or younger. Paper clips made great switches. I got really excited when I got a relay to play with. Wired up a contraption with it, to sound, and keep sounding, a bell, when anything came through the letterbox. The flap completed the circuit when it brushed against a wired drawing pin. Didn't bother to tell anyone else about it (it'll be a nice surprise), and they'd not had chance to spot it before the postman came. Blue flash, nice inductive kick from the relay coil, postman leapt back, bell starting ringing (and only I knew how to turn it off), and parents (may they rest in peace) started wondering if they'd ever have a postal delivery again.

Martin.

Impressive achievement for a four year old! Interestingly enough this probably means you knew more than your school teachers at that age: in tests a while back, most graduate primary school teachers proved incapable of making a bulb light, on being given a battery, bulb, and one piece of wire. Even more surprisingly, when the test was repeated with MIT engineering graduates, most of them were also incapable of making the bulb light up. After a great deal of research of this type, it was concluded that teaching science was actually reducing people's understanding of the subject: the reasearchers amassed a large amount of convincing evidence that many pupils emerge from their lessons knowing less than when they went in! (But, as indicated in Alice in Wonderland, maybe this is why they're called _less_ons.)

-Shez.

Shez wrote in message ...

came

Nah, can't claim the credit for the post-bell contraption at four. The relay didn't come with the first box of junk, it came later. Can't recall exactly when; sometime between five and eight. At nine I wrote a letter suggesting a way of cutting down transmission losses in power lines; worse still, I posted it. That led to me being given a tour of a newly-commissioned power station, and a very nice tea. No wonder I went through a pompous phase later (What do mean, "What makes you think it's over?"?)

Never found out. At that age it was bells, bulbs and batteries at home; sand, bricks and water at school. I guess I just assumed that electrical stuff just was something you did for fun, not in school time.

That's staggering!

If credible, that's a real indictment of the way science is taught. I was lucky to have an unquenchable fascination for physics, and a chemistry teacher who knew how to teach. Still remember his explanation of solid, liquid and gaseous states. Not so lucky in biology. As for IT, it wasn't then offered, in our school, until sixth form, and I never remember seeing any good IT books in school. I had to make private arrangements that included timesharing a sixth-former's identity so I could get processor time for my programs (and so I could get to punch the cards in the first place), and relying on my height and a bit of chutzpah to get into the college library and study the computing books there... I've said too much already! But I'm wondering, given what you've said, whether I learned more pursuing IT semi-licitly than I might have done in a taught course?

Martin.

Martin Sylvester of NRCDT

Well I heard about it at least 3-4 years ago, so the research would probably be a couple of years older again. Hopefully the way science is being taught has been changing as a result. Certainly the stuff on teaching science that the OU broadcast these days shows improved ways of doing it.

There was a documentary about this research, also rebroadcast by the OU, and they questioned all these students on their graduation day with two basic tests. What seemed to throw them was that only one wire was supplied, and instead of touching the other bulb contact directly to the battery, a lot of students would try and make it light with just the wire connecting one terminal to the bulb. It was staggering to watch them doing this and saying stuff like "maybe the bulb is broken, or perhaps the battery is flat".

The other test was a biology one, and is perhaps more understandable. People were handed a small log and asked what trees were made of, ie you plant a seed and it grows into a tree or plant or whatever, where does all that mass come from? Most people said it's made of soil, whereas the answer is that it's mainly made of carbon from the CO2 in the air. When told this, a lot of the students expressed surprise, because "air isn't heavy like wood is". They were also sceptical about wood being mainly carbon, which left me wondering what on earth they thought coal was. I thought we all learned where trees and coal and stuff came from in science lessons at school, but for many people the lessons about photosynthesis, ancient tropical forests being squished, etc etc never sank in.

As to the value of science lessons, it seems to me that bright people will learn the stuff no matter how badly its taught, and really dumb people won't learn it no matter how well it's taught. But there's a wide middle ground in between of people who can learn stuff provided it's taught well, and it was these people who were coming out knowing less than when they went in, as the lessons were just confusing them. This sort of thing is probably true of many subjects though, in fact probably all subjects, it's just that no-one's done the research.

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

LOL! Like, duh!

There's some things that aren't really pointed out, liketrees being made of carbon. I wouldn't have got that, although it's obvious now, because I don't think any teacher every said to us what happens to the carbon when the tree takes it in, and you don't really connect it with coal. Or maybe that's just me.....

Hehehe. There's this girl in my science class, and she's kindabecome a standing joke now, because she gets confused about the strangest things. Like, in Physics, we were doing that 'red shift' thing about stars and the universe moving apart, and she didn't understand how everything could be moving away from everything else. It seems to be that the more the teacher explains it to her, the more confused she gets. Strange girl...

It would be interesting to see that. I guess in, like, foreign language subjects it wouldn't be so true, because you can't know that stuff until you're told it, really, but most subjects I think it's true.

Alli

This seems to be pretty common really. One guy who was actually involved in this research, who I think was a Physics professor, said that he didn't actually know it either until this biologist pointed it out to him. The biologist guy was saying, if trees and plants were really made of soil, then you'd end up with big holes in the ground and people would have to bring in truckloads of soil to restock their backyards after the trees had used it all up. The thing I remembered from school though was some guy once did an experiment where he'd grown a tree in a big plant pot. He weighed the dried soil in the pot before and after growing the tree, and it had only used up maybe a 100g of soil, even though the tree weighed maybe 50kg or whatever. So the conclusion was the tree must be made largely of air and water as there was nowhere else for the mass to have come from. All living matter is basically made of molecules made of long chains of carbon atoms, with mainly hydrogen atoms attached to them, but also a few other elements such as oxygen and so on. But since hydrogen is very light, the bulk of a hydrocarbon molecule's weight is the carbon, which comes from the CO2 in the air. This is why in Star Trek and other Sci Fi stories they are always harping on about "carbon-based life forms", 'cos that's what we all are, but they like to think that in some other galaxy life might be based around some other element.

Of course the reason I know all this is that I dropped Biology when I was 13, so I didn't suffer the unlearning experience of years of biology lessons that most people go through!

I don't believe that stuff anyway, I think the astrophysicists make it up as they go along. I was reading a while back in some magazine, probably Fortean Times, or maybe New Scientist, how the big bang theory doesn't square up with the accepted method of telling a star's age. It turns out that some distant stars are something like 10 billion years older than the universe itself, which of course is impossible, so they have to keep thinking of new excuses to account for these embarrassing inconsistencies. I think it was the same article that said Steven Hawking isn't the "new Einstein" at all, but a total loser who's never come up with a useful new physics theory in his life. I thought that was pretty funny given his god-like status in the media.

The problem with languages teaching is when it's taught. Our brains pretty much lose the ability to learn languages after the age of ten, which ironically is when they start teaching them to us! This was discovered maybe a decade ago at least, so I was horrified to discover from a teacher friend recently that languages are still not taught in primary schools, which is absolutely the best place to teach them. OK so they'd have to cut something else from the curriculum, but it would free up an awful lot of time at secondary school level. This is why people in other countries are so much better at English than we are at their languages, because in other countries eg. in mainland Europe, kids have always been taught foreign languages such as English at primary school.

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

LOL! Yeah, I find all that stuff hard to grasp anyway.It's kinda odd to think that before the universe, there was, like, nothing, so I try not to think about astrophysics any more than I have to! I just think, OK, I have to know this, even if it isn't true and I can't quite understand it, 'cos it's going to be in the exam.

Total loser. That figures. He's sort of supposed to be really great, but noone can name anything he's actually *done*.

I'm very good at languages at school (I do French and Spanish) and I think that might be because I learnt two languages when I learnt to speak, Greek and English. I can't speak Greek anymore, I stopped using it when we moved to England, but I think that helped me become good at learning other languages somehow. That's my little theory, anyway. :)

Alli

His claim to fame is his theory about black holes, but unlike Einstein whose theories of relativity and quantum mechanics are made use of by scientists the world over on a daily basis, no-one seems to need to deal with the problems of black holes in their day to day life, at least not outside of Disney movies anyway.

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

Hehehe. I know this guy, actually, who got this PCfor his birthday, and he took the bloody thing to bits just to see how it worked! Of course, it didn't work when he put it back together, so, guess what, his parents bought him another one! Spoilt bastard.

Daria, much more. I didn't do it 'cos I was stupid, I did it to get revenge on the teacher. She told me off for attacking Amy Pugh, who I still hate to this day. I'm not one to bear a grudge, oh no. :)

Oh, no. I was much too sensible to eat things like that.I ate snails a few times, but they were cooked, so that was OK. I made my brother eat mud, not that he needed much convincing or anything. You could just give him some and say "look, chocolate mousse!" and he'd eat it. And then he'd start crying when he realised it wasn't. I have a friend who used to eat small stones and gravel. And her twin sister would eat grass until about 3 years ago, which I find quite depressing.

Alli

Shez wrote:

She was about four at the time, I think. She still actslike two, though.

Hehehe. I think there's many misdemeanors that I haven'tyet been punished for, or even told anyone here about.

LOL. Nah, she's not really the sort for, shall we say, experimentation, so she would only eat the sort of grass that you find in people's lawns, the legal kind. I find it depressing that a 13 year old would still be at the stage of eating things she found in the garden. She maintains that she was only 'testing' it to see if it would be good enough to feed to her precious guinea pigs, but I think that's just as bad really. She's a strange girl.

Alli

The SATs are tests that school children take every year to measure their knowlege in school work. I took the test every year since Kindergarden (I think now it starts in 2nd grade). Nearly four years ago I was pulled out of public school so I haven't taken the test since 8th grade. By then we were getting a little punchy.

"Turn to the corresponding section of your work book and fold it back so only that page is showing. Read along silently as I read aloud."

Nine years of number 2 pencils and filling in those circles correctly was about to drive SOMEBODY nuts.

Laniakea wrote:

Over here you only have to take them 3 times, at ages 7, 11, and 14.I only took them once, as I think I've already said, 'cos when I was 7 and 11 they didn't have SATs for 7 or 11 year olds.

Alli

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

write,
[...]

Didn't realise you went to a public school, Alli! 8-)

(Note to USA readers, before you diagnose snobbery: "Public school" does *not* mean in English English what it means in US English, as at least one US author has found to their embarrassment.)

I remember six years of termly exams in a college hall that was freezing cold in winter. In the year of the Big Freeze I wore my winter sports underwear, two pairs of socks, shirt, sweater and bodywarmer, woolly hat and woollen trousers; and I took in with me a vacuum flask and a few biscuits, and took a restorative coffee break at the normal time. (Why push on without an accustomed break when you most need to be working well?) By the third exam, some fellow students were taking in empty mugs and sitting near me. Fortunately it was a big flask.

I carried on with the coffee break even in summer; great way to restore concentration halfway through the exam (it was the break, rather than the coffee, I think).

Now, whether you can get away with that in school is another matter. And it would lead to a reputation for, shall we say kindly, mild eccentricity.

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

What does it mean in the USA?

Well, we have to wear school uniform, and that isn't particularly warm.There's this one guy I know who couldn't get a jumper big enough to fit him (he's tall, over 6 ft, I think) so he wears his white school shirt with this KoRn t-shirt on underneath. So, of course, he trys to keep his back turned away from teachers because it says "All Day I Dream About Sex" across the back! Tsk.

In that Art exam I just had, we were allowed to eat, and I kept hearingsomeone going "Psst! Alli!" I soon realised this was coming from my friend Wendy (who eats about as much as a small elephant and still manages to stay under 8 stone) who was offering me biscuits. This continued throughout the exam at 5 minute intervals, and by the end of the first hour I had to refuse the biscuits (I'm trying to keep my weight down!) so she produced a large bag of Starburst and offered me some of them! She showed me all the food she'd brought afterwards, you'd be amazed at how much someone that thin can eat.

We're not allowed to do that in school, no. They'd accuse us of cheatingand we'd actually be banned from taking any of the other exams and given a U for all the exams we'd already done. If they thought it was particularly serious, we'd never be allowed to take any exams on that examination board again. I always thought that was a little excessive, but it has happened.

Alli

Alli wrote (referring to "public schools"):

<<What does it mean in the USA?>>

In the USA, "public school" is what, in the UK, you'd call "private school." That is, a tax- supported school, to which students who live within a certain geographic area are assigned to attend, unless they choose a "private school" (which is what you call a "public school" in the UK). See?

Peace Kevin

KTrick45 wrote in message ...

school."

certain

A better definition than mine, since I neglected the concept of assignment by area. BTW, we'd call this a state school, or a council school, not a private school.

We also use the term "private school" to refer to fee-paying schools. Most people here would understand "public school" to mean a private school (ie most pupils are there because their parents pay for them to attend) which (i) is for pupils aged 11 and over (if they were younger it would be a "prep school"); and (ii) has a certain social cachet, perhaps by virtue of great antiquity or enormous fees. If we heard a school described as a public school, we would also assume it is a boarding school (cfr "day school"). Public schools also have a reputation amongst the general public, fairly or otherwise, for spartan living conditions, physical discipline, and bullying, and for offering easier entry into Oxford and Cambridge than pupils would have if they went to lesser private schools, or to state schools.

Another category here in the UK is that of the "Voluntary Aided" church schools, which people can elect to attend without making any payment; public funds pay most of the costs, and the church congregations pay the rest.

There are others, too, but I'm not going to muddy the waters any more than I have already!

Now I am *not* going to go on to describe how cricket is played, other than to say there are eleven in each team, dressed in white, and the game involves a hard leather-covered ball and a wooden bat made ideally of willow.

"Ah, those happy summer days at public school. The First Eleven in their whites, the crack of leather on willow. Willow's a cabinet minister, now, of course."

Martin.

KTrick45 wrote:

Ah, now that's what we'd call a state school, actually. Private schools areones you pay to go to. Public schools are the really posh ones like Eton and Harrow. Or something like that.

Alli

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

we'd

particularly

happened.

Even if you take your break at the desk, without leaving the hall, without getting up, without talking to anyone? With the biscuits in a clear plastic bag, and the Thermos open to inspection by the invigilator? That isn't excessive, that's Draconian! I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I would *not* want to be fifteen again!

Alli, college is going to seem like freedom must to a released long-term prisoner.

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

Absolutely. It's very stupid really, but I'm pretty sure we'd still be disqualified.

Ah, luckily I've only got another 2 and a half weeks of that.

Oh, good. But I have stupidly decided to take A levels at my school (Maths, Maths Further, Physics, Electronics. Yes, my feminist principles are once again rearing their ugly head) so I won't get to go to college, 'cos it'll be school only without the uniform.

Alli

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

Oops! Okay then, *University* is going to seem.... 8-)

Best of luck! Hope you manage to keep up the art, or take up reading philosophy, to keep your intellectual life well-rounded.

Martin.

I'm sure eating in exams was totally forbidden when I was at school. Imagine trying to work whilst the person behind you is munching crisps and slurping coffee. You know, in California it's actually *illegal* to eat on public transport, never mind being banned in exams! They have all sorts of weird little laws like that, antisocial behaviour is basically legislated against there. It's probably a clever ploy though, as then people who want to rebel against society just do stuff like eating a hamburger on a bus, whereas over here the equivalent act would be slashing the seats or something.

-Shez.

In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:

Er ... why is this feminist? At least, in this day and age? Well, maybe it still is in the United Kingdom.

In article , Shez wrote:

I am having to use public transport for work into San Francisco right now, and BART (Bay Area Rapid Transport) is the worst I have ever been on. It is exhorbitantly expensive (one day's round trip including bus to and from the station is $7.50) and the stations are horrendously ugly ... they lack the sleekness and futurism of Washington D.C.'s Metro, the style of Detroit's People Mover, or the antique charm of London's Underground.

Mikel Midnight wrote:

Hey, I like BART! But then, I've had my whole life to get used to it. It is expensive, though, but where else can you watch nude sunbathers from your train car (actually happened once, when passing an apartment rooftop in Albany or El Cerrito somewhere). Anyway, if you don't like BART, you won't like Vancouver's Sky Train or Atlanta's MARTA, both of which have similar (nearly identical in the case of MARTA) design.

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"'Where do you get your ideas from, Ms. Le Guin?' From forgetting Dostoyevsky and reading road signs backwards, naturally. Where else?" --Ursula K. Le Guin

N.P.:"Pulse Piece"- B i r d s o n g s o f t h e M e s o z o i c / S o n i c

G e o l o g y

Mikel Midnight of *fuzzies* and

That's the sort of prices we have to pay in London too. The difference is that in SF you can (or could when I was there) rides the buses for $1 a round trip, which is a fraction of what I have to pay. For the equivalent of $1 you can travel precisely one stop in London. It amazed me to discover that the fabled "land of the car", where even schoolkids seem to have their own transport, actually had a much better and much cheaper public transport system than we had.

-Shez.

Mikel Midnight wrote:

I had a really long reply to this, but then Netscape crashed before I could send it, but basically, it was: how many female electronic engineers do you know? I don't know where you are and whether you're male or female, but I don't know many girls who've even done Electronics at GCSE, let alone A level.

Charm? London Underground? LOL! Nah, it's not too bad. Just a little dirty. And those map thingies are really confusing.

Alli

I think that's a requirement. I got lost on the New York Subway because the map was confusing. Well, lost may be a little strong since it was always quite clear where we were cuz of the little sign things, we just couldn't figure out how to get where we were going and went back and forth between two stops about 10 times. But we eventually got where we were going.

Dagny

Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697 Monty Python, Spike Milligan, Marx Brothers and More!

"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

Do you have the Girls into Engineering Challenge where you are? One of the schools I govern has a great record of success in this.

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

I don't know. They did basically force me to do Electronicsat first, but I took it upon myself to get a reasonable grade when Vayia decided she was more of a cookery person.

Alli

In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:

Actually I know quite a few female electronic engineers, but I live in Silicon Valley, so perhaps have an unrepresentative sampling ...

OK, at least comparative charm. And the maps are less confusing then the ones in BART which are often out of date ... I once missed a train because the map that was in the station didn't show an extension which had been built.

In article ,

I'm graduating in May from An Eltrical Engineering program, and about 15% of my graduating class are female(4 out of 26). And to respond to Alli, they are all ranked very high grade average wise(they're all in the top half of the class- that's got to mean something). Maybe the reason they do better is because they want to take the courses in this area as opposed to another(I'm saying maybe you just don't know the girls that take Electronics).

[email] wrote:

I have done a little research into this (and when I say "a little," I mean it) and I have discovered that at my school, in last year's year 11, there was 1 female Electronics student, ditto this year, that's 5%. In this year's year 10, there are no girls in Electronics. This year, no girls took A level Electronics, and next year, one girl will, ie me. My uncle is an electronic engineer, and where he works, there are no female electronic engineers. I'd say women are definitely a minority in that field.

Alli

Mikel Midnight wrote:

Possibly. I just know that I'm the only girl in myElectronics class, and that last year there was only 1 girl did an Electronics GCSE, and that they had to initially force me to take Electronics, I only got annoyed about the gender issues when I found out that I was the only girl. Also, after sitting through 1 lesson I was pretty pissed off about the general attitude of everyone else there towards me, the teacher made some comments (I forget what exactly) and I got pretty tired of hearing jokes like:

Q. What do you do if your dish-washer breaks down? A. Slap the bitch.

The main problem I have with the London Undergroundmaps is that they use colours like black, dark brown, dark purple, grey, and those are all pretty close to the colour of the dirt. And they have, like, three different shades of orange or something as well, making it pretty hard to identify which line is which.

Alli

On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:44:26 -0000, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

This does not sound promising. I'm going to college next year, and this statement reminds of of the old librarian in the Shawshank Redemption for some reason (Not giving you any ideas, Alli) Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister...

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

one

Oops. Missed this question. Too busy muttering darkly to myself about stupid exam regulations.

In the USA, it means schools you can attend without paying, cfr "Private schools."

The American writer who goofed had read that Lord X. had agreed to be President of the (English) Public Schools' Ski Club (Association?), and in speculating about His Lordship's motives wrote something like, "We can be certain that Lord X. would not have attended a public school." He was informed that Lord X. had attended a very ancient public school, thank you very much.

Martin.

On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 22:09:32 -0000, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

Pardon my ethnocultural-centricity (I always wanted to use that word in a sentence), but what does it mean in England?

Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister...

Kyle wrote in message ...

Pardoned!

A public school is a private school. Zen, or what?

For an intelligible answer, see my earlier, verbose post in reply to Kevin. <g>

Martin.

Kyle wrote:

<blank stare> Huh?

A school you pay to go to; one of the really exclusive ones that arenot public at all really because your grandpa has to be in the House of Lords for you to be accepted, almost.

Alli

Kyle wrote:

<blank stare> Huh?

A school you pay to go to; one of the really exclusive ones that are not public at all really because your grandpa has to be in the House of Lords for you to be accepted, almost.

Alli

I see you've been indoctrinated by their american rebadging. You mean Opal Fruits of course. And Snickers are really marathons, not that it makes them any less icky.

The key is not how much you eat, but remembering to bring it up again. Since she showed you afterward what she'd been eating, I take it she did. (That's funny, I seem to recall Jane entering an art contest on a similar theme.)

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

I think Opal Fruits was a much better name. And Iremember being, like, 5 years old, and we did this mini-marathon thing at school (for charity, I think) and afterwards our teacher said, "We were going to give you all Marathon bars now, but they were renamed a week ago, so you can all have a Snickers instead." We were all quite annoyed, 'cos Snickers is such a crap name, but we ate them anyway. It's funny how you can remember things like that from over 10 years ago.

No, I meant she showed me all the empty sweet [address] is much more likely to affect me, she's not worried in the slightest about her weight. I don't know why I'm worried about my weight, I'm only 90 pounds.

Maybe I should have done that for my Art exam.I could have just puked all over a sheet of paper, and said I was influenced by Pollock or something. Who was it who cut up sheep and put them in formaldehyde? I guess if that's art, so's vomiting. In fact, cutting up sheep would definitely make me vomit.

Alli

Shez wrote:

LOL! Nah, I'm about 5'5''. I think that's 1m 65cm.

Last year, everyone gave me chocolate for Christmas. I protested,and they said I needed feeding up!

I've never been able to cope with calorie-counting, allthose numbers, it's much too confusing!

Yeah, it's all the same. And it's all gross. It's all a bit like dissection in Biology class.

Alli

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

said

If it happens again, Alli, let me know and I'll send you a pre-paid jiffy bag. Ah, go on!

I can offer to eat the chocolate for you because I have the secret of successful weight management. (Buy bigger trousers.) And no, I'm not overweight. Just two-and-a-half inches underheight. 8-)

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

OK [address] was one of my friends' birhtday today. We'd all bought him chocolate, because what the fuck do men want for their birhtday? It's so hard to find presents for them that aren't just a big bar of Dairy Milk. He does need feeding too, though. That's 'cos his mother gives him money to buy lunch, and he keeps it, he just scabs food off everyone else. I don't know what he does with the money, probably buys fags after school or something.

I have a problem finding trousers that fit, because notmany shops sell them in a size 6 (that's not the same as a US size 6, I don't think) with a 32 or 34 inch leg. They seem to think that the only people who're a size 6 are really short, which I guess figures, sorta.

I must be overheight, then. That sounds better than 'skinny'. :)

Alli

On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:16:34 -0800, "endless, nameless" wrote:

Men want Ibanez Tube Screamer distortion pedals, or maybe it's just me

How about a Boss RV-3 Digital Reverb & Delay. On second thought give him the chocolate and keep the pedals for yourself :)

Musicians are easy to shop for, guitarists especially, just buy them some strings or some effect pedals.

I wish I were a brit just so I can say things like that and get away with it.

- Oh! that's a meat thermometer? Well I don't have a fever, that's for sure. -Ben Katz

Happydude wrote in message ...

LOL! First public schools, now fags (which has *three* different meanings in English English, all of which differ from the meaning in US English). All it needs now is for someone to mention fannies.

I promise that, to give others a chance, I'll try to sit back for 24 hours before answering any "So what does it mean, then?" questions.

Martin.

On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:44:08 -0000, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

In the UK rubbers correct mistakes, in the US rubbers prevent mistakes. No matter where you are from, never forget to bring a rubber!

- Oh! that's a meat thermometer? Well I don't have a fever, that's for sure. -Ben Katz

Happydude wrote:

We have that one over here, too, but it's not used as much.

Alli

Martin Sylvester wrote:

I only know the one. What are the other ones? Theyprobably aren't used much around here.

You know I mentioned the american guy in my Electronics class? Well, he asked me once what the word 'bugger' meant. How do you explain that sort of thing to someone? I mean, I just laughed and told him to look it up in a dictionary! I am not going to define words like that!

Alli

I only know one in the English English too which is DEFINITELY different form American. But figured that's because I am American, and therefore it's weird enough to know the one.

OK that's weird.... I've heard it used by Americans though... although come to think of it the only one I can remember is the rather gross lines in Regional Girl something about "try to keep the little bugger playing with your pants"... which was cut out (duh) from TV. That was the Monkees believe it or not. New song from "Justus". Aah, I just admitted listening to the Monkees?? That was two years ago, really!!

OK I'll return to my stupor now (return?)

Dagny

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"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche

Eccles9697 wrote in message ...

meanings

much

form

weird

Weird, or well educated. 8-)

I managed to keep my 24 hour self-embargo before replying to this thread!

The three English English uses I know are:

(i) Cigarette. "My parents went mad when they found twenty fags in my room."

(ii) In a public school (English definition), a junior pupil who performs mundane chores (eg, cleaning shoes) for a senior pupil. "It's hard to look up to DeMartino - he was my fag at school." Also verb. "Timmy won't be free to come to Daria Club this evening: he's fagging for Kevin every night this week, and he won't let him off."

(iii) (Less common use) A tedious, unwelcome chore, or something that's more effort than it's worth "The whole paintball thing was a fag - I did the right thing in going to see the Great White Shark." Also verb. "I wasted the night fagging away at revision for an exam I don't care if I pass."

Hope this contributes something to furthering understanding and goodwill between Our Two Great Nations. 8-)

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

I think they would in the US, too!

Ah, I see we're back to public schools again! :) That probably explains why I'd never heard that term before, I don't exactly live in a public school-type area, and so have never met anyone from a public school.

LOL!

Happydude wrote:

No, that's me as well. And I'm not a man. And I don't thinkI'm going to get one, anyway.

That sounds like a good idea. There's so much more you can do with distortion pedals, chocolate is over in 20 seconds!

Ah, but this guy isn't a musician. He's not into sports. Hedoesn't read books. He doesn't even listen to much music. Chocolate is just about the only thing I could think of.

It means gay in the States, doesn't it?That gives the phrase "I need a fag" such a different meaning!

Alli

On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:04:00 -0800, "endless, nameless" wrote:

you could always build one at a fraction of the cost (see below)

I hope you do go into electrical engineering, you may end up designing the next great distortion unit. Perhaps you could build them as a hobby or side project and then sell them as a source of extra cash while your in school. There are schematics for almost any type of pedal on the web, they seem easy enough as long as you have a basic knowlege of electronics and schematic reading. It would be much cheaper to build your own since most of the cost of commercial units are in the brand name, casing, paint job, labor, etc.. I've dropped alt.guitar from my subscription list in favor of alt.guitar.effects, AGE is much better than reading the alt.guitar Kurt Cobain flame-o-rama

yes

I'm not even going to touch that one.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I wanted to call someone a "bloody wanker"

- Oh! that's a meat thermometer? Well I don't have a fever, that's for sure. -Ben Katz

Happydude wrote:

That would probably be a good idea. Better than gettinga proper saturday job, anyway. :) Speaking of electronics and making and selling musical equipment, our Electronics teacher (yes, him with the white coat) got cancer, and the "temporary" substitute is this weird guy who makes snare drums and sells them for eight hundred quid. That's OK, but he keeps telling us about it, which is a little boring, really.

Hmmm....I probably could. And it'd be much better thanspending five months saving up for one.

Hehehe. "Kurt Cobain lives in your gizzard!"Tim Hodge and FA13. Dickheads.

Good...

I wish I had a dollar (or rather, a pound, it's worth more)for every time I actually did call someone a "bloody wanker." But it is a pretty normal thing to say over here.

On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:18:24 -0800, "endless, nameless" wrote:

That's the beauty of it. You're your own boss, you set your own hours, you can work from the comfort of your own home.

Exactly, you could build one for 1/5th the price of the commercial version. Once you build something that sounds good build copies, sell them and keep your prototype. After I spent $60 US for an E/H "Big Muff Pi" distortion pedal (hate the name, love the sound.) I'm seriously considering building my own effects from now on. I'm thinking of getting a tube pre-amp from PAiA, they sell unassembled amp and synthesizer kits, to practice on and save $200, the cost of a pre-assembled pre-amp (plus some distortions sound like crap unless they are driving a tube amp or pre-amp (Fuzz Face and Tube Screamer for example.))

anyway, build the pedals, charge double the production cost, add labor cost, find a good housing for the electronics (hand paint the housings and charge extra for it, they are one of a kind after all.)

Plus the "Yngwie Malmsteen rules" vs. "Yngwie Malmsteen sucks" flame wars. A never-ending debate about a big-hair spandex wearing metal guitarist who was(nt) popular over 15 years ago. I wont even start with the "If Eddie Van Halen did it then it's good enough for me" lemmmings (aka WWEVHD)

- I once shot a man just to watch him die. Then I got distracted, and I missed it. -Dave Foley, the Kids In the Hall.

Happydude wrote:

My God, PAIA are still around? I thought they died along with all the other 70's relics. For those of you who don't know, PAIA are sort of like the musical-instrument equivalent of Heathkit. Never buy a used PAIA synth, BTW, I don't care on how much a budget you're on. ;-{)>

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"The only completely consistent people are dead" --Aldous Huxley

N.P.:"Kyrie"- E e l a C r a i g / M i s s a U n i v e r s a l i s

On 01 Dec 1998 06:24:44 GMT, [email] (Progbear) wrote:

Yes, they are still around. They even have a web page. http://www.qns.com/paia/

70's relics never die, they become "vintage" and sell for 10 times what they are worth.

suggestion noted

- I once shot a man just to watch him die. Then I got distracted, and I missed it. -Dave Foley, the Kids In the Hall.

Happydude of MagicNet, Inc. writes:

I used to think that too, but after a few years of both living and working from inside the same four walls I find I'm going completely ga-ga. I think there's something to be said for the traditional work environment where there are human colleagues to talk to, rather than just TV sets and computers to talk back at during the working day. It's nice having creature comforts around you whilst you work, but I find home isn't really home any more when it's also your workplace.

OTOH, being completely ga-ga is a definite advantage when it comes to posting to newsgroups. If I still had my sanity I probably wouldn't even know about this newsgroup.

-Shez.

Happydude wrote:

Hmmm...and people wonder why I would want to form a band with *no* guitarist. ;-{)>

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"The only completely consistent people are dead" --Aldous Huxley

N.P.:"Gloria"- E e l a C r a i g / M i s s a U n i v e r s a l i s

Happydude wrote:

Except there's little comfort in my home. But it's still better than getting a job. :)

They'd definitely be if I painted them. I'm surprisingly bad with paint for someone who's taking a GCSE in Art....

I am proud to say that I had never heard of the guy untilI went on that newsgroup.

What is the deal with Van Halen? Why?!?

Alli

[email] of Cable Internet (post doesn't reflect views of

Aerosols and masking tape, that's how to do neat paintwork. Works for me.

I've never heard of him either

Well this guy I've heard of. He's just a quintessential heavy metal dude, good for a bit of headbanging, and with a good line in hellish album covers, scenes from some 16th century depiction of the torments of Hell, I forget artist's name. (It begins with a 'B'... Hieronymous Bosch I think.)

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

Could go for something Pollock-influenced, ie, just throw paint at the thing until it looks like a total mess.....

That's reassuring.

I've heard of him, but I could never understand why so manypeople think he's so great! :)

That'd be the one. With the little monsters and everything?

Alli

Yeah, you could do like you were saying before and just be sick over the equipment, and then varnish it. That would be so totally appropriate for a rock band's gear.

Bosch I

Yeah, people being cut up and stuff (a bit like that Simpson's Halloween episode really, where Homer is sliced up in Hell). Bosch (if I've spelt that correctly) had a really sick imagination, there's devils having sex with people and stuff too, I forget what else. I bet he's Daria's favourite artist. The Van Halen album cover I have also shows someone strapped to a conveyor belt headed for a circular saw, sort of reminiscent of that James Bond movie where they're going to cut him in two..

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

Yeah! A little gross, but definitely appropriate!

There's all these weird birds and fish and stuff. People beingimpaled on spikes and things.

Hehehe. Quite possibly. She'd probably like to imagine Quinnbeing consumed by an overgrown centipede....

Lovely.....

Alli

On Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:53:15 -0800, "endless, nameless" wrote:

vomit is good, blood too. If it's a fuzz pedal cut off some of your hair and glue it on, better yet your brother's hair.

I have noticed that there is color scheme followed by some effect manufacturers

overdrives are usually yellow distortions: orange metal distortions: always black chorus: light blue compressors/limiters: white or light grey modulation effects: blue-green or purple

If you eat the right foods or add a bit of food coloring you could vomit specialty colors for your product.

Black Sabbath always had strange album covers, satanic demon orgies, angels smoking joints, stuff like that.

- I once shot a man just to watch him die. Then I got distracted, and I missed it. -Dave Foley, the Kids In the Hall.

Happydude wrote:

LOL! What could you eat that would make somethinglight blue? Or yellow? Gross!

I like the cover of Nrivana's Incesticide, with the weird dolland the grey thing and the poppies. It isn't satanic or anything, but it's more original than Van Halen.

Alli

On Wed, 02 Dec 1998 00:26:32 -0800, "endless, nameless" wrote:

light blue = blueberries and milk yellow = nachos, lemonade, orange juice and milk

I always liked Negativland's first album, it came in a box covered with wallpaper samples and 50's magazine articles handmade by Negativland themselves. last I heard they still make them.

- I once shot a man just to watch him die. Then I got distracted, and I missed it. -Dave Foley, the Kids In the Hall.

Happydude wrote:

     I've always liked the cover to their first album, with the zombie Louise
Cooper look-alike in front of the old English house. That's Mack, a favourite
cover-artist of mine, but most of the bands he did album covers for are
hopelessly obscure. I especially liked the cover to Cressida's _Asylum_, with
the seemingly endless row of Styrofoam� dummy-heads stood on pilings going out
into the sea, with one dummy-head on its side on the beach, on fire.
     And speaking of Hieronymus Bosch, that famous painting (whose name I can't
remember) was used as the album cover for albums by Deep Purple and Pearls
Before Swine.

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"'Thin Thighs For Your Man.' But I don't *like* men with thin thighs" --Daria

N.P.:"Red High Heels"- J a n e S i b e r r y / T h e W a l k i n g

In article , [email] (Progbear) wrote:

... [Stuff about album covers]

!!!!

Is that who Queen are referring to in 'Dragon Attack'?

"It's gotta be Mack..." (rest of lines forgotten, bass line remembered...)

[email] wrote:

Oops! Got my one-named people mixed up. It was *Keef* who did the Black Sabbath and Cressida album covers. Mack was the one-time Giorgio Moroder henchman who (like Keith Forsey before him) struck out on his own to produce himself. He's responsible for _The Game_.

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"It is not an obscenity to be free. It is a divine right." --Annette Peacock

N.P.:"T w o R a i n b o w s D a i l y" - H u g h H o p p e r & A l a n G o w e n

On Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:02:59 -0800, [email] wrote:

I wish I were so lucky. There are people who will live their whole lives without hearing his name. I envy them.

There is no easy answer to this question. There was something about half-naked, big-haired, makeup wearing men who sang about cars and getting laid that appealed to a mostly male audience. Personally, I think these people had some issues.

I'm not sure why so many guitarists chose to emulate Eddie Van Halen, he was a skilled player but his playing favored style rather than feeling thus making the music of Van Halen even more empty and meaningless.

Of course the work of Eddie Van Halen paved the way for the next trend of 32nd note wankers: Slash of Guns and Roses.

- I once shot a man just to watch him die. Then I got distracted, and I missed it. -Dave Foley, the Kids In the Hall.

Happydude wrote:

I always hated them. I remember, it must have been, like, '92, andall my friends liked either them or Take That. I was listening to the Beatles a lot about then, not knowing that there was good music out there.

Alli

I'm beginning to suspect that endless, nameless ([email]) is part of the whole evil plot. For example:

?<SNIP>

? Tim Hodge and FA13. Dickheads.

Is there something you'd like to share with the rest of the class Nipplechips?

I'm beginning to suspect that Shez ([email]) is part of the whole evil plot. For example:

? Mister Treze of Miskatonic University ? Dark Brood of Evil Hooded Servants of Nyarlotep and Tennis Club ? writes: ? ><SNIP> ? ? This seems to be one of that new species of troll that's going round.

The kind that follows up posts calling them "dickhead"?

Odd sort of troll...

In article ,

No, the sort that has a huge, unwieldy, pointless and boring .sig attached.

I'm beginning to suspect that [email] ([email]) is part of the whole evil plot. For example:

? In article , ? [email] (Mister Treze) wrote: ? > I'm beginning to suspect that Shez ([email]) is part of ? > the whole evil plot. For example: ? > ? > ? Mister Treze of Miskatonic University ? > ? Dark Brood of Evil Hooded Servants of Nyarlotep and Tennis Club ? > ? writes: ? > ? ><SNIP> ? > ? ? > ? This seems to be one of that new species of troll that's going round. ? > ? > The kind that follows up posts calling them "dickhead"? ? ? No, the sort that has a huge, unwieldy, pointless and boring .sig attached.

Those are my favorites!

Mister Treze wrote:

Yeah. You practically destroyed about 3 newsgroups I read with your dumbass crossposting. Other than that, I have nothing against you.

Alli

I'm beginning to suspect that endless, nameless ([email]) is part of the whole evil plot. For example:

? ? ? Mister Treze wrote: ? ? > I'm beginning to suspect that endless, nameless ([email]) ? > is part of the whole evil plot. For example: ? > ? > ?<SNIP> ? > ? > ? Tim Hodge and FA13. Dickheads. ? > ? > Is there something you'd like to share with the rest of the class ? > Nipplechips? ? ? Yeah. You practically destroyed about 3 newsgr<SMACK!>

You will of course, be able to name them and give evidence?

Thought not.

Mister Treze wrote:

How can I give evidence that they were OK until all those crossposts started? I can name them: alt.music.hole, alt.fan.courtney-love, and alt.music.nirvana. The Hole ng suffered particularly badly as it wasn't very big to start with. I can't give you evidence, but I'm sure you noticed you were crossposting to about 10 different newsgroups. I never did anything to you, and you're complaining because I complained about your unnecessary crossposts. I think that's just a little unreasonable, anad I'm sure most people would agree.

Alli

I'm beginning to suspect that endless, nameless ([email]) is part of the whole evil plot. For example:

? ? ? Mister Treze wrote: ? ? > I'm beginning to suspect that endless, nameless ([email]) ? > is part of the whole evil plot. For example: ? > ? > ? ? > ? ? > ? Mister Treze wrote: ? > ? ? > ? > I'm beginning to suspect that endless, nameless ([email]) ? > ? > is part of the whole evil plot. For example: ? > ? > ? > ? > ?<SNIP> ? > ? > ? > ? > ? Tim Hodge and FA13. Dickheads. ? > ? > ? > ? > Is there something you'd like to share with the rest of the class ? > ? > Nipplechips? ? > ? ? > ? Yeah. You practically destroyed about 3 newsgr<SMACK!> ? > ? > You will of course, be able to name them and give evidence? ? > ? > Thought not. ? ? How can I give evidence that they were OK until all ? those crossposts started?

I'll take that as "I have none."

Which translates into "I know it to be a fact, but I can't tell how or why."

Thanks.

? I can name them: alt.music.hole, ? alt.fan.courtney-love, and alt.music.nirvana. The Hole ? ng suffered particularly badly as it wasn't very big to start ? with.

A quick look shows me:

alt.fan.courtnry-love: 231 messages - 95% on topic

alt.music.nirvana: over 500 messages - 95% on topic

alt.music.hole: 75 messages - maybe 70% on topic, mostly because it seems to have fewer regulars competeing with spam and junk - but not *crossposted* junk just regular ng junk.

They don't *seem* destroyed. Am I missing something?

Furthermore, you said "_You_ practically destroyed about 3 newsgroups.", implying me, sepcifically, did this. There were lots of folks, from lots of groups posting to them. Yes, they got crowded. But how did I get tagged as sharing so very much of the responsibility? Especially when I was involved in the threads, but I certainly didn't start them, and rarely added them?

? I can't give you evidence, but I'm sure you noticed ? you were crossposting to about 10 different newsgroups.

Which doesn't qualify as "an attempt to destroy" by any reach. Irresponsible? Annoying" Possibly. To some. But where, exactly did you come up with the idea that there was a plan to destry any ng?

? I never did anything to you, and you're complaining because ? I complained about your unnecessary crossposts.

A) I wasn't complaining. I was just jumping into the conversation since you brought *me* up. Smoochie smoochie.

B) You weren't complaining about crossposts. You said was "Tim Hodge and fa13. Dickheads".

? I think ? that's just a little unreasonable, anad I'm sure most people ? would agree.

I doubt it. To be honest, it's over. It's *been* over. Everything in those 3 groups seems back to normal.

Get on with your life already.

Grudges are *very* unhealthy.

Mister Treze wrote:

Yes. You've stopped the crossposting now. Alt.music.hole has shrunk to half, maybe a third of the size it was before it was overrun with messages from you, and admittedly a lot more from Tim Hodge.

OK, I'm sorry for that. It wasn't just you, there were a lot of others, and yes, most of it was them, and, as I mentioned before, Tim Hodge. He was by far the most annoying.

Huh? I never mentioned a plan. I have to say, though, I guess you aren't as bad as it seemed originally, you are capable of seeing that it could be annoying and admit it was a little irresponsible. That does show that you have at least some level of maturity.

I brought you up, you complained, implying that I have no right to have been irritated by reading those crossposts (which I admit weren't all you or your fault).

We were discussing the annoying things about alt.guitar, and the crossposts that you participated in enough for me to specificly remember you were a very annoying thing on many newsgroups for some time.

All I did was mention that those crossposts made alt.guitaran even less pleasant newsgroup for a long time. I believe I have said this before: other than that, I have nothing against you.

Alli

I'm beginning to suspect that endless, nameless ([email]) is part of the whole evil plot. For example:

? ? ? Mister Treze wrote:

<SNIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!>

? > ? > They don't *seem* destroyed. Am I missing something? ? ? Yes. You've stopped the crossposting now. Alt.music.hole ? has shrunk to half, maybe a third of the size it was before it ? was overrun with messages from you, and admittedly a lot ? more from Tim Hodge.

I preferred to think of it as "USENET ENHANCEMENT". YMMV.

? > Furthermore, you said "_You_ practically destroyed about 3 newsgroups.", ? > implying me, sepcifically, did this. There were lots of folks, from lots ? > of groups posting to them. Yes, they got crowded. But how did I get ? > tagged as sharing so very much of the responsibility? Especially when I ? > was involved in the threads, but I certainly didn't start them, and ? > rarely added them? ? ? OK, I'm sorry for that. It wasn't just you, there were a lot of ? others, and yes, most of it was them, and, as I mentioned before, ? Tim Hodge. He was by far the most annoying.

Or entertaining, depending on where you live...

? ? ? > ? > ? > ? I can't give you evidence, but I'm sure you noticed ? > ? you were crossposting to about 10 different newsgroups. ? > ? > Which doesn't qualify as "an attempt to destroy" by any reach. ? > Irresponsible? Annoying" Possibly. To some. But where, exactly did you ? > come up with the idea that there was a plan to destry any ng? ? ? Huh? I never mentioned a plan.

Ok. Never mind that then.

? I have to say, though, I guess you aren't as bad as it seemed ? originally, you are capable of seeing that it could be annoying ? and admit it was a little irresponsible.

I'll add you to the fan club. Your first magazine should arrive in 10-14 business days.

? That does show that you ? have at least some level of maturity.

Them's fighting words....

? ? ? ? > ? > ? > ? I never did anything to you, and you're complaining because ? > ? I complained about your unnecessary crossposts. ? > ? > A) I wasn't complaining. I was just jumping into the conversation since ? > you brought *me* up. Smoochie smoochie. ? ? I brought you up, you complained, implying that I have ? no right to have been irritated by reading those crossposts

No, implying you got my attention with "Dickhead."

<SNIP!!!!!!!>

? I have said this before: other than that, I have nothing against ? you.

Are you flirting with me?

It's hardly necessary to give evidence. Anyone who is interested can check deja news to see at what point a certain person began excessive cross posting on those newsgroups.

A characteristic of trouble-makers is that they are offended by anyone who takes offense at the trouble which is made.

Alli wrote in message ...>

in

Yes, there is a limited range of sizes for taller people. The thing that bugs me is jackets: the best bargains always turn out to be only in medium height fitting. Sometimes try them on anyway, hope triumphing over experience, to have a good laugh at the sight of four inches of wrist visible where the sleeve ends.

This may not last. I used to be able to stoke away the food without gaining any weight at all (I know you're choosing to watch the weight, but I can't see why). Once went back to visit Nottingham Playhouse (where I'd appeared in some plays) and the wardrobe lady showed me my entry in her book: skinny build, 28 inch waist, 6ft tall... Things had changed.

Sometime when I was round about 22 years old, somebody snuck in as I slept, opened up an access panel, and turned on the weight gain switch... <g>

Martin.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

Nor can I really. I think it's just fear of being fat, like if I'mskinny, then noone can call me names because I'm too big, and I can say to other people "at least I'm not fat!" if they piss me off. I don't do that very often, though, because it's either not effective at all, like if they aren't bothered by their weight, or it's too effective, and they, like, go bulimic or something. I wouldn't wish an eating disorder on my worst enemy, it's horrible when you see people who're just wasting away, and it must be really frustrating for their families. There's a Manic Street Preachers song called 4st 7lb, that's about anorexia, "I wanna be so skinny I rot from view" or something like that. I forget how it goes.

Hehehehe. My dad won't admit that he's put on weight. He just says his trousers have all shrunk over the past few years. We're all like, suuuure....

Alli

Just to add my comments to what is becoming an increasingly confusing discussion, in the UK "public schools" and "private schools" are one and the same thing, ie. privately run schools. I think they were called "public" to distinguish them from church schools, back in the days when there were no state schools. Another weird thing is that as I understand it, in most countries going to a private school has a stigma attached as people are only sent to them because they're too thick to cope with the normal public (state) schools, whereas in the UK, going to a private school is the norm for rich kids, and they see attending a state school as some sort of stigma. Look at shows like Clueless for instance, they all go to a state school. In the UK those kids would all be in a private school, simply because their parents are loaded. But it has to be that way, to preserve the heritage of our feudal class system. If everyone received equal schooling, our country would no longer be such an inspiration to the Karl Marx's of the world.

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

Where my cousin (no, not my brother) lives, they still have grammarschools and those exams you take when you're 11 to see if you can go to one. So, my cousin totally fails his exam, and can't go to grammar school. Big fuss from his parents. I forget whether they managed to get him into grammar school now, but they sort of went mad about it. I think they're sort of the posh type, they have horses and stuff, so their son *had* to go to a good school. Me, I just went to the local state school. My mother went to grammar school and hated it. She refused to even consider sending me to this nearby all-girls school because it reminded her too much of her old school.

Which is possibly the most ridiculous thing about this country.

Very true. You know, I thought that when Labour got into power, they might be a little bit socialist, you know, because they were supposed to be the workers' party, but no, they go and introduce tuition fees for Universities, ensuring that many people I know will be denied the education they could otherwise have had, like my friends Karen and Wendy. Their older sister will go to Uni, but they can't because they're twins, and they have a brother who's only a little younger than them, and there's no way most people could afford to put four kids through Uni at the same time. So I sometimes think this country could use a Karl Marx.

Alli

On Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:05:23 -0800, "endless, nameless" wrote:

Trust me, there are plenty more ridiculous things about Britain. Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister...

Kyle wrote:

There are an infinite number of ridiculous things about Britain.But there are good ones, like the fact that here, everyone gets free medical care to a reasonable standard, and free education. Not all countries have these. But Britain would be a lot nicer if it wasn't so bloody cold all the time!

Alli

Shez wrote:

Hehehe. No, he is my cousin. Most of the time I wish he wasn't, but he is. I wish I could say that my brother is only my cousin, but he looks just like me, so it wouldn't work.

More so, I think. They're just finishing off what Thatcherwas out to do.

Hehehe. I always think that it's kinda ironic that thiscountry is run by people whose only claim to peerage is that their great-grandmother was a prostitute and had an illegitemate child by by a prince or something.

I never thought of that. I'm not one to look for messages inthings. I just work on the theory that life is stupid and pointless and everything has a message which is that life is stupid and pointless.

In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:

The two main parties in the House of Commons are the Tory party, and the Tony party. What's the difference?

work

Life isn't stupid and pointless. It's just pointless. So you might as well find something constructive to do in the meantime, and give it a point.

If you look hard enough you'll find meanings in things...

[email] wrote:

Anyone ever see that Harry Enfield & Chums ChristmasSpecial, or whatever it was? Tory Boy turning into....Tony Boy! It's quite funny how easy it is to imitate politicians, but on the other hand, it's quite disturbing that the country is being run by a Spitting Image puppet.

If you have an electron microscope or extremely twistedjudgement, that is. :)

Alli

In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:

Or lots of time on your hands... But my main point was "If you look hard enough..." :D

[Apropos of nothing, I'm reminded of the scene in "Ferris Bueller's Day off", when they're in the art gallery, and his friend is staring at the pointilist painting of the people on the riverbank, and he's staring so hard, it keeps zooming in until you can see each individual dot, then he passes out.]

Sorry about that. I guess this is just one of those holidays where Americans celebrate that they are no longer part of the UK. Please, no offense was intended.

Laniakea wrote:

That's OK. I wasn't offended. I probably should have put a smiley there, but I was stressed out about my Art exam. Anyway, here's one :)

Alli