Or for those of you not ravaged by the passing of time and haven't
managed to breed yet, would you, etc.
The wife and I don't let the mutant pigs* watch Daria for a number of
reasons.
1: We don't let them watch much TV anyway.
2: We feel Daria is targeted at a more mature group of people.
3: I don't want to give them any ideas for the future.
So the question is, just at what age would you let your kids start watching Daria?
*Mutant Pigs: Boys, ages 9 and 10. Named by their mom(mum uk) after
walking into their room one day. "You mutant pigs!
If you think I'm cleaning this mess up...etc."
Good question! <sarcasm> That's exactly the type of on-topic posting that we here at alt.tv.daria try to stamp out at every opportunity! </sarcasm>
I've actually thought about this before, and I'd have to say wait 'till High School (or your local equivalent). Nine and ten-year-olds just wouldn't get most of the humor in the show, mostly because a lot of that humor depends on the viewer having "been there." Third and fourth graders just haven't seen the likes of dumb jocks and cheerleaders wandering the halls yet. Or, for that matter, high school parties, paintballing field trips, or driving 4 hours to a rock concert. And not having that experience would make the show less funny.
I got the video over Christmas, and my little brother really enjoyed it. I still haven't figured out what he sees in it. He's in 7th grade at a sheltered private school and I know he hasn't experienced any of the topics. But then, he's also a Dilbert fan, so I think he's just screwed up.
i wouldnt let my kids watch MTV, brecasue i dont like what it stands for. i'd let them watch daria. i dont have any kids right now, though, so.... saerah
On 9 Jan 1999 06:25:06 GMT, [email] (AniSaerah) wrote:
That's my parents opinions right here. If I sat them down, showed them an episode of Daria, they'd have no problem with it, more than likely. But it's a risk I'm not willing to take. They could decide it's still MTV, and watch me a little closer. ___ Kyle ICQ #12773280
Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister....
Another Nugget Of Wisdom from the Wonderful World Of Kyle(TM)
My parents have always let me and my brother do basically whatever the Hell we wanted to (within reason). I don't know how I'd bring my kids up - if I have any, that is. I'd let them watch MTV, though, even though I don't like what it stands for, because if I stop them doing stuff because I don't like what it stands for, they might grow up to be totally shallow because they've been repressed. Or something. I probably won't ever have any kids anyway.....
MTV stands for something?!? All this time I thought it was a cable TV network with occasionally entertaining and informative programming in the midst of a bunch of interchangable Road World/Real Rules crap and a music video or two. Now I find out that it stands for something, and I don't know what that something is! Dammit! Why didn't someone tell me MTV stands for something??
Well, that's sound. At least they won't *need* to watch Daria as an antidote to some of the other stuff on (M)TV.
About 11-85, IMHO. Having said that, maybe age shouldn't be the criterion. As a parent who knows Daria and knows your own children, you can judge if *this* child of yours is mature enough to watch Daria, and, whatever age they are, barring absurdity (eg, "He's a normal eighteen year old and I judge he's not ready"), people who don't know your children as well as you do can't, with any authority, criticise your decision. I don't imagine, BTW, that you were implying age is the sole criterion: I realise it's a useful reference for discussion. 8-)
Um, what ideas did you have in mind? Like thinking for themselves? Like defying the herd instinct? Like acting ethically in the face of pressure to do otherwise? Like standing up against the abuse of authority? I'd like everyone to get those ideas, as early as possible. Oh, hang on, maybe you mean like "How to get better bribes out of your parents." ;-)
Well, I was invited to do a "Week in the life" visit in an RE class. I said that if I'm free at 11am on Sunday I watch my favourite TV programme, the only one I watch every week if I can, and I asked the class to guess what it was.
"Songs of Praise?" "My Favourite Hymns?" (They made that one up, I think) "Morning Service?" "Some programme about the Bible?"
By telling them it's Daria, I suppose you could say I was recommending it, and so far I haven't been censured by the Governors. The pupils were in the second year of secondary education, so they'd be aged 12+.
In the interests of full disclosure: the 11 o'clock Sunday screening is on c5, and some UK Darianites who've also seen the MTV screenings say that cuts are made for the c5 screening.
We're trying to instill all of the above in them, except the last. ;) My recurring nightmare is that one of them is going to get the idea that he wants to grow up to be just like Kevin. Wake up in sweats, I do.
Yeah, that's about the age we're looking at. Should have all the tapes by then too.
And to everyone else who added their two bits to this thread, Thanks for the input.
Jon Armstrong The Space Ranger Graveyard shift gives one a unique outlook on life. A dark one.
I remember my introduction to daria. I was watching some kids,
and one of them wanted to turn on Daria. He was probably in sixth or
seventh grade at the time. I figured it was probably "just another MTV
show, inappropriate" so was reluctant, but was curious. The little
one, when he saw it, said, "oooooh, you're watching a cussing show,"
probably for the same reason I had dismissed it beforehand; it's an
MTV cartoon. I saw nothing harmful about it, indeed, thought it was
good.
I even wondered what in the world those kids saw in it? It's
not something they could "get", I would think (seeing how I would
watch nothing but Thundercats and Voltron at that age). It's not
particularly "bad", meaning it couldn't be a form of rebellion against
parents.
The only risk I see in the show is that it could possibly
reinforce the natural tendency of intellectual types to behave
arrogantly toward those not so intellectual, especially parents (I was
the worst when I was a teenager; I am now 21, and try to keep my
arrogant impulses under control).
Does anybody here have any idea why kids under the age of 13
would like this show? Personally, I don't get it.
I was 12 when I started watching Daria. I don't think I got as much of the humor as I do now that I'm in a <sarcasm>big middle school</sarcasm> with jocks, goths, cheerleaders, etc., but I did understand a *lot* of the parts about stupid people in general. The kind of person who appreciates Daria will probably understand most of the humor, because people who are shallow and crass are universal, no matter what their age (within reason, of course - find me a fashion obsessed 3-month old, I dare you). <Crawls back under the coffee table and listens to the big people talking>
Well my mother's friend Mag claims that her baby daughter takes quite an interest in her clothing. But, then again, she's not particularly trustworthy especially with regard to her darling Abby...
Yep! They're everywhere.... aaaahhhh....
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
Several reasons. Grade-school kids seem to have a natural affinity for shows about teens (hence the popularity of stuff like Sabrina and Saved by the Bell among the pre-pubescent set). I know, you're saying, "But Daria isn't like THOSE," but really, the main difference is it's better written and treats its characters with more respect, which older grade-schoolers can apreciate (at least some can). And even a grade schooler can identify with being the "class brain" while "cuter," more "athletic" kids get all the attention. And young kids can certainly root for Daria to outsmart her teachers and parents.
Personally, when I was a late grade schooler (in the '70s) there was a brief mini-trend towards "adult-oriented" animated sitcoms on network television. Two that I remember were "Where's Huddles" and "Wait 'Til Your Father Gets Home." These shows weren't as well-written or well-animated as Daria (or King of the Hill), but they did deal with some fairly "sophisticated" adult themes - sometimes moreso than the live action sitcoms at the time. Especially Wait 'till ... Father. I recall one show where the teen-age daughter ... who was drawn slightly overweight, btw ... snuck out on a date and came home shaken up from having to fight off her overly-amorous boyfriend. This is material that even Daria hasn't tackled yet (of course, it's harder to deal with such subjects humorously today than it was 25 years ago ... not that this episode was particularly tasteless). The point (and I do have one) is that I watched these shows at the time, and didn't found them acceptably entertaining and not particularly disturbing. I think there's something about animation itself which just appeals to kids, even when the subject matter is a bit over their heads.
On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:46:56 -0600, "Chris McCubbin" wrote:
To my thinking, the obvious choice for the character to be put in such a position would be Quinn. She flirts with guys like there's no tomorrow, but what would happen if she encountered a guy who wanted to take things a *bit* too seriously, and wouldn't take "no" for a demand?
(Fanfic readers will recognize this issue, as it's one I took to its ultimate extreme in my own story, "Sins of the Past", though I'd never expect "Daria" to do the same. What happens in my story would be far too intense for the show itself to tackle... but, of course, that's why we have fanfic. <grin>)
Martin (to send e-mail, remove the "nospam" from my e-mail address) ---- "Don't worry. Today it's brains, tomorrow pierced tongues, then the next day, pierced brains." - Jane Lane ---- Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria! http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/
I'm not sure what the first one was, as like most series that I watch I eased into it gradually. You know the sort of thing, you see the odd snatch of something whilst jumping from channel to channel, then after stumbling across it a couple times you end up watching the rest of an episode to the end, and then after that you start to make a point of tuning in each week and suddenly you can't live without it and the days in between are spent sighing and waiting and rerunning old tapes of the show... that's how I was with Caroline In The City too, and now Channel 4 have gone and cancelled it again after *one* episode the bastards, even though they were still in the middle of showing the second season. TV is really going downhill fast as we approach the multichannel future. We all knew quality would take a nosedive as the number of channels expanded and TV got all americanised but I never expected broadcasters to start pissing on their viewers from such a height so soon in the day. About the only good news is the BBC deciding to show Buffy, but even that has had chunks bitten out of it to make it "suitable for children". They even censor children's programmes here to make them suitable for children, like duh, if they think children's TV shows aren't suitable for children, who the fuck do they think they're being made for?
Anyhow, the first Daria I can remember seeing though was the tail-end of "Quinn the Brain" (which was probably a confusing place to start, what with the cross-dressing), and then I recall seeing "I Don't". I think I only saw three or four of the episodes in all on the first run through on C5, it was too early in the morning for me and it hadn't registered as important enough to tape. It was only on the reruns that I started taking it seriously. I still haven't seen any of the first series episodes AFAIK, but I intend to get the video just as soon as I remember to go shopping.
I dunno, I can think of some "children's programming" that might be censored.. It's mostly because there have been many instances in the past where TV stations have shown sows that really just shouldnt be intended for children. I can think of two examples right away..
Ren and Stimpy. I don't think i'll have to explain this.. unless you guys dont have it in the UK. I mean, don't get me wrong, it was a great show, but I still can't understand what Nickelodeon was thinking when they picked it up. It originated on MTV, and it was pretty much intended for adults.. immature adults, but adults nonetheless. I mean, if you look at the stuff that the former creator of R&S is putting out now (http://www.spumco.com), you really wonder how the show stayed on as long as it did. I can't really complain about them showing it on Nickelodeon, because this is how i was introduced to it. I suppose, they were thinking that "If we're able to corrupt just one young mind out there, maybe ir's all worth it." :-) However, the fact that it was constantly pushing the line also eventually brought about it's downfall.
The other being.. The Adventures of Batman Certain episodes of this show could appeal more to children, but I always thought it had a very adult feel about it. Alot of the subject matter has always been geared more towards adults. I seem to remember several romantic interest stories. The campy 60's version with Adam West would probably be more suited for kids. Most interpretations of Batman make him feel upbeat and nice and kind, because the companies are trying to appeal to the masses. (This is how Joel Shoemacher<SP?> ruined the franchise). Some interpretations, very few, including this cartoon, make Batman to have a very dark feeling about it, which, i think, is how Batman always should be. Coincidentally, this is also why the first Batman film was the best, because Tim Burton directed it, and partially because as a general rule, sequels suck.
Yes, the BBC used to put that out around 6pm, it's certainly not a kids show though, I always found it quite disturbing really. A more suitable slot would be around 11pm which is when Channel 4 used to screen Beavis & Butthead (and now screen South Park). Of course, kids love all these shows anyway, as they like violence and gore and bad language more than adults do, but broadcasters are obliged to exercise a little responsibility.
I think Tim Burton got this right, also the graphic novels like Arkham Asylum, basically Batman (like more superheros) is a nutcase, as is evident from his stupid mask & cape. However the old Adam West shows are also good, very funny and old fashioned, ITV used to run them in the middle of the night when they first started doing 24 hour broadcasting. (Or maybe it was Channel 4, I forget now.)
The stuff I had in mind that gets cut though include the Australian soaps, Home & Away and Neighbours, which get whole storylines cut as ITV or the BBC deem them inappropriate for children (eg. about schoolkids having sexual relationships) or because of language or something.
Also the BBC cut bits out of Clarissa Explains It All, and in one notorious episode they removed pretty much a whole scene because she said "bloody". Nickelodeon used to push this show as suitable for 9 year olds, yet the BBC chopped bits out even though they showed it in a slot aimed more at young teenagers (4:30pm). I don't know why they're so sensitive about these things.
They also showed an episode of Round the Twist out of sequence, holding it back to the end of the series, because it featured a boys' pissing contest and they were afraid there'd be some backlash from outraged viewers. I think they're over sensitive about these things.
Similarly, ITV cut big chunks out of Sabrina because she sang a song about fannies, but the presenters could simply have explained to viewers that "fanny" means something else to Americans. If they're concerned about people misinterpreting American slang then they should pull their fingers out and commission a British sitcom instead of buying American stuff and then chopping it to bits!
The latest casualty is Buffy, which the BBC are cutting because they want to aim it at kids, on the usual patronising basis that all Sci Fi is just "kids stuff". Someone was complaining on Right to Reply tonight that C4 have done the same with Babylon 5, putting it out in a kids slot during the mornings recently. I sometimes wonder what goes on in schedulers' heads.... "Hmm, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Sci Fi / Fanstasy, therefore it's a children's programme. Ah, but it contains adult material. How can a children's show have adult material? Does not compute. Must square circle. Must find scissors... snip gore ... snip language... snip violence... snip sex... Ah, that's better, NOW it's a children's programme! Next task - find slot for Terminator II ... hmm, Sci Fi, must be children's programme, let's try screening it after Teletubbies..."
Depends: During the late 70's early 80's (I can't vouch for the accuracy of this information, as I have no source books with me, so I'm writing from memory) TV stations got all concerned about violence in cartoons, so they put out some guidleines on what not to do: No character looking stunned or in pain after being hit, NO BLOOD, things like that. That's pretty much held sway, until now.
It's probably mainly stations who buy programmes/cartoons to broadcast, that worry about this stuff. Cartoon Network, which makes it's own shows, has no such qualms about it (watch the opening credits for "The Powerpuff Girls", a select few "Dexter's Labs", and enough "Cow & Chicken" and you'll see what I mean).
On 9 Jan 1999 19:36:54 GMT, [email] (CrtoonDude) wrote:
Actually, I think even The Muppets would qualify under this category. It's those kinds of of things that make a show suitable for both children and adults. The muppets have cute, floppy puppet guys running around doing silly stuff, and some silly humer a kid could get, but a lot of those jokes are political in nature. I remember watching as a kid, and likeing the silly stuff and the muppets, and the songs and stuff, and watching again as an adult and getting a lot of jokes I definately didn't get when I was younger. The only people that wouldn't like them are 11-14 year olds, because they're "too mature" (read: stuck up) to enjoy the kid stuff, but they're not yet mature enough (read: too stuck up) to grasp the more adult humor.
Mine was the latter half of "The Teachings of Don Jake", I think, or possibly "Road Worrier". It was a marathon on a Sunday morning, and one of the first times I had ever watched an MTV show from beginning to end.
The first one I ever saw was the first episode, "Esteemsters". I wanted to check it out, because I liked the character on B&B, so I wanted to see how Daria worked on her own. Frankly, I didn't care for it, and it was a while till I gave "Daria" a second chance (it must have been "Pinch Sitter" which caused me to reevaluate my opinion on the series. That or "Road Worrier", I love both of those). Still, while I don't think "Esteemsters" is as well written as some of the other episodes, I have come to appreciate some of the episode. And it's not my least favourite (that dubious title would have to go to "That Was Then, This Is Dumb", the only "Daria" episode I dislike).
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
make GEORYN disappear to reply
"'Thin Thighs For Your Man.' But I don't *like* men with thin thighs" --Daria
On Sat, 09 Jan 1999 14:49:23 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Esteemsters for me, thankyeeverymuch. I anxiously awaited this show since it's first commercial. I had no idea what it was, but I'm all for nerd pride, and Daria looked like a nerd.
___ Kyle ICQ #12773280
Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister....
Another Nugget Of Wisdom from the Wonderful World Of Kyle(TM)
I can remember seeing the commercial now, I was in the kitchen, and I heard a Pulp song (Disco 2000?) playing on the TV in the living room, so I went in there and it was this commercial for Daria. I thought it looked cool, so I decided to watch it. Then I forgot to for the next month or so.
I managed to catch the first ep, "Esteemsters," from the get-go. For some reason, however, after the first 6 or 7 eps, I just lost track of the whole second half of the first season, and missed it until late fall in reruns. (Hmmm... could that have something to do with scheduling and lack of promotion? Mmmm, could be...) I wasn't really a big fan until I caught one of the mini-marathons MTV has a habit of unexpectedly running in November or December of 97, and I finally realized that this was one helluva good show. The main reason being that it's intelligent without being condescending, and funny without being crass. (This from a fan of B&B and old school R&S (before Kric. got run off the show.)) "Daria" kind of carves out a whole different area for the toon to go, a lot like KOTH-- the sitcom cartoon. (The Simpsons don't count-- that's more parody, farce, and satire-- it doesn't have a sitcom feel to it.) Both Daria and KOTH are character-driven, while the Simpsons isn't nearly as character-driven-- it's more subject-driven. YMMV, of course.
Those mini-marathons are insidious-- I used to hate B&B until I caught a moronothon, and after watching 4 or 5 in a row, I realized that the people behind it were geniuses. (And I laughed my ass off, too.)
As for the net presence of Darianites, well, to be honest, I didn't even think of there being anything on the Net about the show until April '98, when I stumbled around and finally found a.t.d., et. al...
rich.
Jane: Do the names Beavis and Butt-Head ring a bell?
Late '97, I caught "Malled" on Channel 5. I can't even remember why I was watching it, but I held the TV aerial in my hand (the best way to get good reception) for the entire duration of the show. The next week I missed 'This Year's Model" because the picture was just too bad. After that I tried to watch (or listen to) it every week, until MTV started running it after Xmas. I was amazed at how good the animation really was (Channel 5... sigh...). A few weeks ago I realized that I'd been watching "Daria" for a whole year. It really doesn't feel like that long.
Mine started watching when I did, during the first season. They were 11 and 13 at the time. The older one, at 13, was within the target audience for the show, I think. The younger one was well-read for his age, and has the correct mind set to understand wit and sarcasm. They still watch it, though with perhaps a bit less enthusiasm than their dad.
I can appreciate that, since I'm "Prince of Darkness" for the current schedule. That's just one of the things we get called as the 19:00 - 07:00 supervisor. It's my fault, really. I came up with that one, and it stuck.
Do you have one of those "Kill your television" bumperstickers? Or the "10 Arguments Against Television Pop-Up Activity Book?" ;-)
Seriously, though, I can understand why. "Vast wasteland" is an understatement. Then again, I watched Gilligan's Island and Brady Bunch reruns when I was a kid, and it gave me a feeling of community with other members of my generation when I went off to college. I could join the debates about who was cuter-- Mary Ann or Ginger, or why did the Skipper always call Gilligan his "little buddy?"
Name a cartoon that isn't. That's what's so funny-- most cartoons (esp. cartoon movies) are targeted at the parents, cause if the parents like the cartoon as well, they're more willing to buy the merchandising, and more willing to let their kids see it, too. Movies targeted at kids only tend to do poorly at the box office.
Aww, c'mon, help your kids start their own Montana Cabin Funds. ;-) (That's got to be one of the best gags from the Database, BTW.)
Well, since I don't have kids, I can't say for sure, but I would probably wait until they were 11 or 12, depending on how precocious they seemed to be socially and/or intellectually. True, most kids don't start HS until 14 or 15, but it never hurts to give 'em a little warning ahead of time. (Oh, if I knew then what I knew now, muahaha!)
You know I used to obsessively watch like Pinky and the Brain, Animaniacs, and such for a while, and that was like all I watched, too. Now all I watch is Daria since I work so much anyhow. But I was going somewhere, I think it was I like cartoons. And also anime like Ranma 1/2. It was really funny at one point in time I was reading 3 things at once which were "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" (for American Lit), "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" and a "Ranma 1/2" graphic novel. Which I thought was the most bizarre collection of books to be reading at one time possible.
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
So just what is it about Daria that you think might be inappropriate for children?
Language? Surely they hear much worse on other TV shows. I know they'll hear worse on "South Park." They almost certainly hear worse at school. They may even hear worse at home.
Themes? I can't think of a single issue discussed on Daria that children of almost any age don't need to become aware of and discuss with their parents--on an age-appropriate level. That's where parents earn their stripes. Watch with the kids so you'll be handy when they ask questions. That's the wonderful thing about Daria, viewers of all ages can enjoy it so mom and dad won't get bored while they spend some quality time with the tikes. Of COURSE they aren't going to understand everything in Daria. That's part of being a kid. There are a lot of things kids don't understand. How are they going to increase their understanding if they aren't allowed to stretch?
Do you want to keep them from learning about the world? Are you afraid they might get the idea that being smart is cool, learning is fun, and reading isn't something to be avoided? (I know the schools are doing everything they can to quash such notions but should parents just acquiesce?) Do you want protect them from learning that it's ok to think for yourself or that Tom Cruise is 5'4"? Don't you think it might be a good idea for them to discover before they go out into the world that not everyone is going to like them and that they might be disliked for quite trivial reasons? When they come home in tears because the other kids don't like them, because their outfit is days old or because they aren't cliquey and snotty enough, wouldn't it be helpful to be able to refer to Daria as an object lesson? When you're trying to interact with the kids, it's helpful to have a central point of reference. If you're both Daria fans then Daria could be that common thread. What could be wrong with that?
I say go ahead and watch Daria--together. These are golden times, and when they're gone--they're gone. You have to take your child/parent bonding wherever you can find it. I not only think ALL kids should be allowed to watch, if they don't do it voluntarily then their case it should be made MANDATORY.
Language? No, not language. I don't think a random 'damn' here or there is going to turn them into sociopathic serial killers. But I'll be damned if I'll ever let them watch South Park before they reach voting age.
Themes? Yes, some of the themes are going to right over their heads.
But maybe I would just like to delay for a little while questions like,
"Dad, why are Daria's mom and dad and sister acting so crazy while camping?".
I remember watching Rocky and Bullwinckle with my dad when I was a kid.
I couldn't understand why he laughed at parts that I didn't think were
funny. Then I rewatched it as an adult and understood. However, Daria
isn't Rocky and Bullwinckle.
As for stretching, I'd much rather they exercised their minds by building
with their legos and k'nex and making stuff up or reading than sitting
in front of the glass teat, even if it is with mom and dad.
Jesus H Christ on a Pogo Stick, man, whatever did I do to you? Or did I just hit a nerve with the question? If so, I'm sorry. I'm just going against the grain by trying to raise two mutant pigs into caring rational adults. Yes, they know life isn't fair. They are not always going to get what they want. And most of the time they are going to be spending their time doing stuff they don't want to. Welcome to life. It's a bitch and it's hard, but they learned that lesson first.
Bob, I've gotta ask you how many kids you have, sex and ages. If you think having 9 and 10 year old boys is the golden ages, I'll trade you, mine for yours. I tell all parents of toddlers to enjoy them while they can, they'll just get bigger and more obnoxious. I'm 6'2" and dread the day when I'll have to look up into their eyes and tell them, no, they can't have the car keys. Hopefully, I'll have raised them well enough that they won't squash me like a bug.
In closing I just want to say that none of what I've written here is flammage of any sort. I just can't believe where you're coming from. Shall we try it again?
Jon Armstrong The Space Ranger Graveyard shift gives one a unique outlook on life. A dark one.
Of course not. No flames ANYWHERE on alt.tv.daria. We just don't DO that in A.T.D.--unless you screw up and get the title of a Daria episode wrong.
You may have misinterpreted my subtle insertion of some references to some Daria episodes. If you aren't as familiar with the show as some of us Daria addicts that might pose a problem. Also some of my remarks might be considered a bit rhetorical, intending to try and draw in other participants. Don't sweat it.
Ok, since you asked. I have no kids. None on the horizon. My sister has kids and I sometimes "babysit" them now that they're too young to run away yet. In addition, I used to be a kid. Some might argue that never ended. There's one particular incident that colors my point of view in this issue:
A few years ago my brother-in-law had knee surgery to repair an old sports injury. As advertised, the post-operative pain is excruciating. He tried all kinds of things to take his mind off the pain, finally resorting to an old interest, building models of WWII-era warbirds. His eldest son got interested as well and the two of them spent hours together. It just reminded me of my own father and I began to realize how important it is for kids to spend some time with parents. That line about "Child/parent bonding" and "Golden years" is a quote from the Daria episode "Monster." It's one of the reasons I realize that Daria is MORE than just a silly little cartoon show. Of course my father wasn't like most fathers. While some dads went out and tossed the pigskin around with their sons, my father wasn't particularly interested in sports. He was an electrical engineer. Instead he spent his quality time with his son fixing TV sets and designing and building circuits.
So when I realized that my B-I-L and his son had an interest in warbirds, I decided to offer to take them in my airplane (Piper Cherokee Warrior) and fly them to Dayton, OH to the U.S. Air Force Museum, probably one of the finest museums of its kind in the world and it's only a couple of hours away in the airplane. My dad said he wanted to go too so that made four of us. It was amazing, these two--they were like kids in a candy store. A memorable day for all.
Less than two years later my dad was gone--cardiomyopathy. Three years after that, that trip is one of the many memories I cherish about him, all the more important because it was the last trip I ever made with him. I sometimes miss the long conversations we used to have about all kinds of things. I've since taken my Brother-in-law and both his sons on a return trip. I only hope I've given them some memories to cherish. I only wish there were something like it I could do for his daughter as well.
"It really makes you think." Yeah, that quote from Daria is quite correct. We're all temporary. These moments are all slices of a lifetime and there's no rewind button to allow you go back through them again. Sure, there are going to be problems dealing with kids, I had my own minor problems dealing with my father, but in the years to come those problems become memories too and you realize in retrospect that those problems were quite trivial. This stuff cuts both ways. It's not just you enjoying your kids that's important, it's also the kids enjoying you. It's THEIR cherished memories that are important as much as yours, maybe more so. This all makes me realize that Jake is right, these times ARE golden, even though we may not realize it. You can squander a lifetime waiting for the golden times but if you can't recognize "right now" as golden then you'll never see any golden times. This isn't to say that "this is as good as it gets," but you have to try to mine the gold that lies under the overburden of life.
Finally, my remarks aren't intended to be a definitive answer. They're intended to stimulate thought. That's one thing we do here at A.T.D. We emulate our heroine Daria so we try to think. The thing to think about is: what will your kids remember about you when you're gone? Remember, this is Daria--we're not afraid of thinking about such things. We're not miserable, we just think.
That's one reason this show "Daria" is so amazing, so wonderful. I really think if you "wait 'til they're older" to allow the kids to see the show, you're cheating them and you're cheating yourself. This show is simply too good, too important, to pass. Over the years I've seen all kinds of television, some good, most bad, but I think Daria is one of the most significent television programs of the 20th century and probably the 21st. "Star Trek," the moon landings, "Daria," all these television events must figure in the history of this century just drawing to a close. In the future, when you watch Glenn Eichler standing on the stage accepting the Nobel Peace Prize, like Walt Disney did, your kids can say say, "Yeah, I used to watch Daria with Dad." Hyperbolic? Well--yeah, I guess. But Daria does that too sometimes, doesn't she?
I sometimes wonder what dad would have thought about the TV show "Daria" and how it has touched my life. I think he might have approved. He enjoyed Bullwinkle.
Anyway, you asked for opinions and I gave you mine. Take it or leave it, your choice, whichever is more useful to you. It's ultimately your decision whether to let the kids watch, one of the perks of parenthood.
"R. K. Henry" wrote: <practicing random acts of snippage>
One of the things I liked about this place after lurking here for a while. Ratio of posts to flames nears infinity.
I did misinterpret what you posted. Looked like a slam on raising my rugrats behind castle walls. Do believe I've seen all the Daria eps so far, and looking forward to new ones. No sweat broken.
Laughing. I have a theory that no matter how old guys get, they never mentally mature past the age of 19 or so.
<snip family fly-in>
Just to make you crazy: Every year in Watsonville Ca. they have an antique airbird fly-in. This year they're moving it to Moffit Airfeild, right across the street from where I work. I know me and the boys are gonna love it.
Hitting nail on head.
Another question, why has thinking gone out of fashion?
Some shows I let the kids watch on their own. Some shows we watch with them, to help explain (they're into Babylon5, like their dad). Some shows we feel we need to wait for a little while, which was the point of the question in the first place. Just asking for advice.
Parenthood: One of the nastiest, dirtiest, hardest jobs you'll ever enjoy.
Thanks Bob.
Jon Armstrong The Space Ranger Graveyard shift gives one a unique outlook on life. A dark one.
That's what you think. You...uh...suck or something! I question your sexual orientation!!!!!!!!!!!! Oops. that shoulda been in all caps, cause that makes it more intelligent.
___ Kyle ICQ #12773280
Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister....
Another Nugget Of Wisdom from the Wonderful World Of Kyle(TM)
But fashionable people have to think what to wear and stuff, and they have to remember all those irritating things that only fashionable people do like putting their hair up and then taking it down again and then putting it up in a different way and then taking it down again......
Which bears about as much resemblance to thought as a worm thinking "Oh, I've got to eat my way through this dirt now, so I become a nice fat worm to feed a family of birds"
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:01:13 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Why? Don't they have a right to live their lives the way they feel without being looked down upon for it? I don't see the difference between deriving pleasure out of a specific type of clothing and deriving pleasure out of a good book. It's all a matter of taste.
___ Kyle ICQ #12773280
Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister....
Another Nugget Of Wisdom from the Wonderful World Of Kyle(TM)
I find that most fashion-obsessed people tend to look down on those who aren't interested in fashion/aren't fashionable as much as or more than those who aren't fashionable look down on those who are. And of course, fashionable people generally have more friends and therefore more power socially. Unfashionable people get bitched at or at least ignored by fashionable people. I agree that everyone has a right to be interested in whatever they want, but most fashion obsessives go around making other people miserable. I don't know many nice fashionable people. Actually, that's not true, there's several *nice* fashionable people at my school, but they are horribly patronising. "Take pity on those poor unfashionable girls, don't be mean, you might upset them....."
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:44:30 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
I completely disagree. Unfashionable people have an arrogance and condescending attitude towards fashionable people, they just aren't given a forum with which to express it.
And if unfashionable people had the chance, we'd do the same thing to them. Look at this thread, we're blasting them.
___ Kyle ICQ #12773280
Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister....
Another Nugget Of Wisdom from the Wonderful World Of Kyle(TM)
I guess. But I think unfashionable people usually have a reason to act that way: bitterness about being unpopular or annoyance at being ignored/victimised. Popular people have no reason to be nasty to unfashionable people simply because unfashionable people have no way of getting to them at all. To most fashionable people, unfashionable people seem only exist as pathetic/pitiful creatures pointed out occasionally as examples of how people shouldn't be.
Most of them deserve it for being so fucking self-centred all the time. At least we notice them. How can we not? They are all that is there. Bitter, me? No..... :)
I'm not so much into the comic books, although I have a couple such as Lum (Lum is a sort of Quinn-like alien who's forever pestering this girl- crazy boy Ataru). The animations are good though. My favourite Japanese animation is the film Akira. It's very powerful and strange, and the animation is superb. I like the way they capture the flickeriness of TV screens and fluorescent lights, and the bright glow of headlamps and so on. It has a very naturalistic feel to it, even though the people are still drawn like cartoon characters. And the storyline is incredible, I think it must be one of the best science fiction films ever.
I think the main weakness of Daria is that the animation and images are fairly indifferent, most of the effort has gone into the storylines and characters and not the visuals. They've paid attention to getting the eye movements and expressions right to bring the characters to life, but the movement is clunky and the drawings simplistic and stylised. This is why it doesn't matter so much that the show goes out on Channel 5 which has terrible picture quality. I wonder what Daria would be like if extra effort was put into the visuals, like in Wallace and Gromit for instance. The trouble then of course is that each episode would take about 6 months to make. I think Aardman Animations only produced about 10 seconds a day when they were doing the Wallace & Gromit films, with each film taking about a year to complete. I guess that sort of production schedule is just not an option when you have to produce 13 half-hour episodes a year.
Funny you should mention it, I was just watching "Gilligan's Island" the other night, and I had always known it was stupid...but it never really hit me how bad the *writing* was until then. One wonders how they managed to last three whole years, much less get a fan base that remembers them fondly (But then, "Hogan's Heroes", from the same era, lasted twice as long, and was not only just as poorly written and acted, but in totally questionable taste as well! Remember the MAD Magazine parody? Spot-on satire, I'm afraid. Incidentally, the urban legend of it being a smash hit in Germany is not true).
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
make GEORYN disappear to reply
"'Thin Thighs For Your Man.' But I don't *like* men with thin thighs" --Daria
N.P.:"Sanctuary"- M a h a v i s h n u O r c h e s t r a / B i r d s O f F i r e
Frankly I think that "Daria" is a fine program for kids as young as early pre-teen to watch, particularly for girls.
Daria is an excellent role model. She is a straight-A student, she is intelligent, she doesn't drink, smoke or have sex, she is college-bound, and she is a very strong personality who doesn't let peer pressure get to her. She might be sarcastic and mistrustful of authority, but do you really want your kids to grow up not questioning authority and unarmed for the abuses authority inflicts on the trusting?
Ideas for the future? Ideas like taking your schooling seriously and getting your degree? Ideas like staying away from mind altering substances?
Seriously, a kid can do MUCH worse than watch "Daria". Then again I'm a non-breeder by choice and my opinions probably don't mean a thing.