non-spoiler review of C.E. FORMAN's Fan Fiction

Sep 2, 1999, 1:31 PM ET14 posts by 9 postersalt.tv.daria
14 posts
William Ian Gasarchalt.tv.daria

Now that there won't be NEW episodes of DARIA for a while, I would like to urge the newsgroup to turn their attention to FAN FICTION. There is ALOT out there.

(http://systech.simplenet.com/daria and click on Fan Fiction. Or http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/wildbill/155/dmain.html Or the occational poster who says `see my fan fiction at...')

Once a week for a while I will post an item ABOUT fan fiction. I am really hoping to spark intelligent debate about these stories.

This weeks topic:

A REVIEW OF THE WORKS OF C.E. FORMAN (NO spoilers--- this note is to ENCOURAGE you to read the stuff.)

GENERAL COMMENTS:

Forman does not do Crossovers (one exception), future stories, or anything of that sort. ALL stories really COULD be episodes of Daria. No major continuity changes. The hardest thing seems to be making the fashion club doesn't find out that Daria is Quinn's sister.

Forman includes Commercials, those scenes before commercials, and Sick Sad World. All quite good.

There are also comments on the story both before and after, so the reader can see what was trying to be accomplished.

Forman seems to have MEMORIZED every episode and The Daria Diaries and The Daria Database. This tends to increase enjoyment if you catch a reference, but no problem if you don't. Also some of the later stories reference events in prior ones, so its good to read them in order.

--------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- A+ stories: To get an A+ a story has to be interesting, funny, AND have some GREAT SCENE. THE LOST GIRLS had the EDGY scene. LENS had the NELSON MANDELA scene. SPEEDTRAPED had the bar-scene and the kids party scene. (I know some people would NOT give LOST GIRLS at A+, but hey, this is my posting.)

TO HELEN BACK: On ``take your daughter to work'' day Helen takes Daria and Jake takes Quinn. Daria thinks the law system is a farce, Quinn flirts with job applicants. GREAT scene at the end when Sandi's family and the Morgs, and Jodie's family all get together for dinner. Both plots interesting and funny.

----------------- ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUES: The Best scene of all the fan-fiction is the second to last scene in this way (Cant' tell about it without spoiling). An adult substitute teacher who is rebellious against (among other things) a Book Ban by Ms. Li appeals to Daria but really troubles Jodie. Very interesting and funny. Character development for Jodie.

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A stories.  These are A+ stories that are missing that one great scene to make
them A+. Or they have great scenes but have a major plot flaw.  ESTEEMERS,
QUINN THE BRAIN would qualify.

LOTTO NONSENSE: Daria wins the lottery (5000 dollars) and becomes popular. Quinn is goaded into shoplifting by the Fashion club. Both plots good and reach reasonable conclusions. The very end left me a bit cold though.

An excerpt:

DEMARTINO: ... you might try showing us a little enTHUSIASM for once instead of just SITting there in your usual HALF-APATHETIC STATE!!

JANE (to Daria): *Half*-apathetic?

DARIA: Yeah. I don't even care enough to exhibit complete apathy.

-------------------------------------- RAIN ON YOUR PARADE/QUINNTET (a two part story): Ambitious!. At least 4 plot threads (Daria, Upchuck and Ms. Li, Quinn, Jake). They don't connect up much, but thats okay. It takes place at a fair, but its much better than FAIR ENOUGH. And different enough from it to be original. Only problem- The Daria plot--- she's too overwrought.

An excerpt:

HELEN: The point is, this constant fighting (between Daria and Quinn) has to stop. What do we have to do with you girls?

DARIA: Pit us against each other in a bloody struggle to the death?

JAKE: Fifty dollars on Daria!

----------------------------------------------------------------- ALIENATION LEGACY: The Morgendorffers go to the funeral of Great aunt Ellie, who is Aunt Amy's Aunt, and had a similar relation to Amy that Amy has to Daria. Similar to I DON"T, but distinct in its own right. 3 great SCENES (Daria claims she's serial killer, the will reading, dreams of funnerals). Flashbacks are used alot which can get confusing, but better on a second reading. A few logical flaws knock it down from A+ to A.

Except:

JAKE: She's being cremated DARIA: Don't forget the mashmellows.

NOTE: Forman's attention to detail: the three bridesmaids from I DONT appear here. Forman feels an obligation to apologize for this as they are probably not close enough relatives to be there. The apology is unneeded, but shows attention to detail.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- DRIVEN WILD: Daria and Trent go out on a ``date'' set up by Jane at Le' Chez. Lots of Daria fantasies throughout. Three great scenes (Resturant scene, Car Dealer scene, one of Daria's fantasies) Ending is a cop-out, which knocks it from A+ to A.

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B+ stories.  Funny and interesting, but lacks a great scene and somethings
not quite there.  JUST ADD WATER is in this category.

TAKING DEBATE: The main plot--Daria gets involved in an extracurricular activity (debate team) and regrets it-- seems somewhat generic. The Jane plot (she makes a new logo for the football team) is more original, but it was secondary. The Debate-plot didn't end smoothly.

Excerpt:

O'NEIL: The pen is mightier than the sword. DARIA: Maybe, but its alot harder to decapitate your opponent with a bic.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- WEIGHTING TO EXHALE: Quinn thinks she's overweight and unravels. Daria and Jane both like the same guy. The Daria/Jane plot revealed some nice insights about both of them and their differences, but ended too artificially. The Quinn plot worked pretty well and made some points of interest. The idea of Jane getting a boyfriend was explored better in JANE'S ADDITION. (To be fair--- written after this story was written.)

An Except:

JANE: He likes us DARIA: That automatically classifies him as a poor judge of character.

--------------------------------------------------------- NO PICNIC: The Morgendorffers and the Landen's (Jodie's family) go on a picnic together. Nice contrasts: Daria/Jodie, Quinn/Rachael, and Andrew/Jake were very interesting. (Helen/Michele wasn't devolped much). The episode was really about Jodie and the stress she's under. No real plot or resolution. I don't mind the lack of plot, but I do mind the lack of resolution. More interesting than funny.

An Excerpt:

DARIA: I'm now a card carrying member of the Isolated Recluse society. JAKE: Thats great kiddo!

----------------------------------------------------------------------- DARIA VERSUS THE IRS: Jane's family owes LOTS of Taxes/Someone is writing nasty graffiti about Quinn. Both stories start out well. But both have cop-out endings. Some of the themes here were much better done in LANE MISERABLES (to be fair--- it aired after this was written). Funny but not logical.

An Excerpt:

DARIA: ..... They got audited a couple of months ago.

QUINN: Good. That whole family's weird, its about *time* someone did something about it.

DARIA: Do you even know what an audit is Quinn?

QUINN: It sounds like a kid of makeover, but for like a group, and they teach them to act less geeky to.

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C: Not funny enough AND not interesting.  DEPTH TAKES A HOLIDAY.

ALL WASHED UP: Daria decides she cares about her looks after all. Done much better in THROUGH A LENS DARKLY. Daria volunteers for an activity (car wash) and REALLY regrets it. But nothing funny or interesting happens in the process. The fashion club is picking on Daria instead of just ignoring her (their reaction to Daria in QUINN THE BRAIN was much better). A flashback to Trent in school was interesting, but didn't connect up that well. There were two other plots (Helen and Jake go to a better-your-marriage thing, the fashion club goes rollerblading) that were better, but secondary. Contained the best commercial of all the fan-fics.

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SUCK/DIDN"T SUCK If you know Beavis & Butthead then episode DID NOT SUCK, else the episode DID SUCK.

GOOD BYE DIARRHEA. I'm not a B&B fan, so alot of it went over my head. But I can judge it as a Daria fan. This episode was about Daria's last days in Highland (where Beavis and Butthead lived). It tied up some lose ends and parts were funny, but there wasn't quite enough to relate to. The comments the author made afterwards were more interesting than the story itself.

On 2 Sep 1999 13:31:31 -0400, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (William Ian Gasarch), and it said:

Forget it man, any attempt at this is DOOMED! DOOMED, I SAY!

I tried this on two occasions. First, I wanted to see if at least one other person was interested in a "reading schedule" to deal with the drought. Nobody was. Second, I posted a review, supposedly the first of many, of a fanfic, this one being... I can't remember, but it was okay. I also wanted an "atd rebuttal." Didn't get it, from anyone.

If you manage to get fanfics to be a common topic on atd, I salute you! :)

- Tarvok (UIN 37083068) http://members.xoom.com/Tarvok remove NOSPAM to reply via E-mail Ap D+ T3 Wn Q++ FN^FR

On the mountaintop, [email] (Tarvok) spake thusly:

Perhaps an alt.tv.daria.creative newsgroup would be a good idea. ^_^

-Mindy Who now *knows* she has to hang around with her anime 'net friends less

Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P) Find the Daria Geek Code at http://www.geocities.com/TelevisonCity/Taping/3017/

Hey, check out my website at http://mindy.simplenet.com.
Crazy NutsoMindyalt.tv.daria

On Fri, 03 Sep 99 02:24:56 GMT, [email] (Mindy) wrote:

or we could just mention in passing our favorite fanfic writters and hope for the best.

I'm Partial to:

-Peter Guerin -Michelle Klein H�ss -Sbedd D

and a few others. But what TYPE of fanfics do people like? Crossovers? Largly comidic or the more dramatic ones?

I should also add that the message board at Outpost Daria is in theory at least devoted to the discussion of fan fiction.

"Doesn't ANYONE in this town wear pants?" ~Helen, Daria! The Musical

"I've seen more people collapse this week..." ~Daria, Jake of Hearts

"I've always dreamed of the day my picture would hang in a nuthouse." ~Daria, Once Opon a Nut

visit my no-thrills Daria fanfic site at: http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/wildbill/155/dmain.html

The artist formerly known as Crazy Nutso Since no one reads down this far anyway...

The Daria Code: v1.1 AP D+ T0 Ww Q+ Fw^FR O Ow m+ c++ MV- C5X F:112,F:201,F:306 BB FCJ DT q fJ^fD

In article , Crazy Nutso wrote:

I don't know whether to feel honored or feel insulted? ;-)

--.\\<-H--
DariaCode(tm) 1.1 (gold) Ap D T10 Ww Q+ Ff^Fr On m++ c MV-- F:111,211,308 BB++ FCD/J -DT-(in spite of my fics) q+ fN

Michelle Klein-Hass wrote:

LOL...I don't know. All I really do know is that I do hope I get the chance to read up on your fanfics. They do seem to be quite lengthy and as I only have time for one volumers now I apologize for not being able to read any. But I will get to them.... Just have to finish up Invisigoth Gypsy's fanfics (already read four...yay me LOL).

Diane

http://sites.netscape.net/citygirl7609/ "daria" geek code: Ap D+ T7 W1 Q++ Fn^Fr O+ Ow+OH+Of+Oh m+ c+ MV- C5X F113,213,301 BB- FCD/J/H DT+ q+ fT

On Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:33:04 -0700, [email] (Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:

well, if I were you, I'd feel honored, because feeling honored feels better than feeling insulted. :>}

"Doesn't ANYONE in this town wear pants?" ~Helen, Daria! The Musical

"I've seen more people collapse this week..." ~Daria, Jake of Hearts

"I've always dreamed of the day my picture would hang in a nuthouse." ~Daria, Once Opon a Nut

visit my no-thrills Daria fanfic site at: http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/wildbill/155/dmain.html

The artist formerly known as Crazy Nutso Since no one reads down this far anyway...

The Daria Code: v1.1 AP D+ T0 Ww Q+ Fw^FR O Ow m+ c++ MV- C5X F:112,F:201,F:306 BB FCJ DT q fJ^fD

TarvokCrazy Nutsoalt.tv.daria

On Fri, 03 Sep 1999 04:41:37 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from Crazy Nutso , and it said:

<note: not replying to Crazy Nutzo, my newsfeed didn't get the message I want to reply to>

In general, if the traffic doesn't already exist on Usenet, creating a group about it will only make an empty newsgroup. This is the place to discuss it; if people want to discuss it, they can discuss it here. It's only if it creates an offensive amount of traffic that a new group needs to be made.

And the _last_ thing we need is _another_ empty newsgroup. And I estimate that roughly 75% of the groups pacbell.net carries are empty, which is annoying when I'm just browsing newsgroups to deal with boredom.

- Tarvok (UIN 37083068) http://members.xoom.com/Tarvok remove NOSPAM to reply via E-mail Ap D+ T3 Wn Q++ FN^FR
TarvokCrazy Nutsoalt.tv.daria

On Fri, 03 Sep 1999 04:41:37 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from Crazy Nutso , and it said:

CE Forman and Paperpusher are my favorite.

Mostly, I prefer the sort that could be an actual episode, but there are a few notable exceptions. Crossovers can be good, if done well, but there are a lot of _really_ bad crossovers that bear little resembelance to Daria. For instance, that Hitchhikers crossover is a good one (can't remember the name or the author). Most of the "Sailor Moon" crossovers, IMO, are not.

The "Shipper" fics are mostly drivel, and then there's the "Slasher" (if I remember the term correctly) fics, which are absolutely horrid. But, there is one superior one, also can't remember the name, which involves Daria, Jane, Trent, and Jesse going on a trip to... was it the skiing trip or Florida? I'm going to have to read it again! Anyway, though I don't like most shipper fics, this one is my favorite overall.

- Tarvok (UIN 37083068) http://members.xoom.com/Tarvok remove NOSPAM to reply via E-mail Ap D+ T3 Wn Q++ FN^FR

[email] (Tarvok) wrote:

Thanks. :)

<shameless plug> There's a new one up at the site now. Look for another one in the next few weeks as well. I'm hitting a pretty good stride right now, so I'm trying to write as much as possible. (Remember how I've been blathering about "Heart of Darkness?" It gave me a really cool idea this afternoon while I was wating for my car to be fixed. No, it's not a crossover, but I won't say more now. It's not on deck, though, it's in the hole, to use a baseall metaphor.) </shameless plug>

Crossovers usually leave a bad taste in my mouth. No, I don't know why. I think it violates some sort of anal-retentive streak in me that wants to keep the peas and mashed potatoes separate. That's just me, though. (And I still promise never to write another one again. Blecch.)

I really love the good comedic ones-- I think those are the toughest to write. I know that everyone loves a good drama, but to me, a really good comedy is a work of art. (I like the dramas, too, though.)

That's what I try to write. Other folks use a more speculative angle-- good for them! (Austin Covello's "Day in the Life of Stacy" comes to mind as a really good example of excellent spec. fic.) I'm just a bit more conventional. *Shrug.* It's all a question of what floats your boat.

jBone wrote that one, I do believe.

I never could understand that particular cross. *Shrug*

Are you talking about IVG's "Disney World" saga? It is well done.

In theory, ATD is all about Daria. In practice? Hardly. ;-)

rich.

Jane: All I want is to make beautiful things!

http://paperpusher.simplenet.com (remove blah and numbers to send email) Daria Geek Code v.1.10 Ap D+ T10 Ww Q++ Ff^Fr
Tarvokpaperpusheralt.tv.daria

On Sat, 04 Sep 1999 03:55:51 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (paperpusher), and it said:

New fic! New fic! And Forman sent an e-mail to his fan list, saying he'll be coming out with new ones soon. Fic season is, to me, just as good (and sometimes better than!) new ep season. I don't have to worry about the VCR. ;)

Aww, but I _liked_ "Mirror, Mirror." Exceedingly well done, and it wasn't so crossoverish that I couldn't get it (having seen very little original "Star Trek" and having never seen the episode of that name).

I loved that one.

No. I'll... I'll check right now.

<fires up web browser, directs it to Outpost Daria>

Aha! It's "As Luck May Have It" by Nessy Thompson. And it was a trip to Florida, which Trent won over a radio show.

Hey, I have an idea. Would all lurking fanfic authors please raise your hands?

- Tarvok (UIN 37083068) http://members.xoom.com/Tarvok remove NOSPAM to reply via E-mail Ap D+ T3 Wn Q++ FN^FR

I think we need to make a distinction between a "cross-over" and a "parody". They are, after all 2 completely different things.

The Hitchhiker's Guide story by Jbone & Mirror Mirror by Paperpusher are Parodies. The cast from Daria is placed in the tradition roles. ie Daria is Aurthor Dent, Andrea the Goth is Ford, etc. Another example would be my very own (yet another shameless plug) "Through the Rainbow" (now available at Outpost Daria! Somehow it slid through their usually high standards for fanfics!) in which Daria and Jane take on the roles of Dorthy & Toto.

A crossover, on the other hand, is where the cast of daria meets the cast of something else. Peter Guerin is notorius for these. He's done Sailor Moon, Slappy Squirrel, and probly others I've forgotten. And of course their was my own "Daria Where Are You?" Which has Daria, Trent and Jane meeting the scooby doo gang (not available at Outpost Daria! Hoorah for standards!)

parody's would seem to be a little more popular than crossovers, as far as I can tell.

"Doesn't ANYONE in this town wear pants?" ~Helen, Daria! The Musical "I've seen more people collapse this week..." ~Daria, Jake of Hearts

In article <UU=PN4EW9V5KwEn2ZB79EdciPGxc@ 4ax.com>, Crazy Nutso wrote:

GMT, [email]. com

[email] (Tarvok) spake thusly:

fanfics to be a common topic on atd, I salute

alt.tv.daria.creative newsgroup would be a good idea. ^_^

passing our favorite fanfic writters and

TYPE of fanfics do people like?

or the more dramatic ones?

Mostly I like the ones that are as close to an actual episode as possible, Therefore my favorite has to be C.E. Forman as well, runner-up to Kara Wild's stories. Though I read most of the fan fiction that is out there, I like the ones that are a part of a seperate "Daria-verse", even if some of them veer far away from the TV storylines. Therefore other authors that I look forward to their next creations with anticipation are (including the 2 above): Michelle Klein-Haas, Peter Guerin, John Berry,SBBED D. and probably more that I can't think of right now. Best fic out there: "Sins of the Past" it had the best character involvement, plot, and writing that I've seen out there. I honestly got over-emotional when I first read this one, almost broke down at points, kudos to Martin J. Pollard. A very close 2nd is the "Untitled 1" by Katherine Goodman.

I skip most romance and crossover stories as that their vey dumb ideas, terrible stories or usually the most poorly written fics out there.

Lastly I skipped all fics while the new eps were running. I figured that by the time I catch up on what I've missed there will be more to catch up on, and etc. I figure to be fully caught up in about 4 months. I did it this way to try to keep busy when I need my fix during the drought and to try (probably fruitlessly) in my own way to make it go by a bit faster. It may seem like a strange way to do things, but then again I'm a strange person:-)

A.J.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I've read some of the works listed and I would have to agree with your comments on "Accept No Substitute" and "No Picnic" (even though I did end up liking "No Picnic" a bit more). I wished Daria would've been a stronger character in "Lotto Nonsense", though, and stood her ground a bit more. Um...did I just spoil something? I don't think so.

But I've been really getting into the Invisigoth Gypsy's fanfics. Loooooved the one that was set in a chatroom. I printed out a copy of that and read it anytime I get stuck in rush hour traffic. Then again I'm a major 'shipper sooo.... LOL. Does make for an interesting scene...I'm listening to some New Wave song like "Romanticide" by Combo Audio ("it's a clear cut case, romanticide, homicide, oh yeah"..."sitting in a restaurant by myself, couldn't leave a tip...wondering where you are, what you're doing, who you're with"...that sort of thing), and I'm reading a Daria fanfic. I'm sure you're all looking askance at me now. :)

Diane

http://sites.netscape.net/citygirl7609/ "daria" geek code: Ap D+ T7 W1 Q++ Fn^Fr O+ Ow+OH+Of+Oh m+ c+ MV- C5X F113,213,301 BB- FCD/J/H DT+ q+ fT