over-bashing?

When it comes to the topic of male-bashing, Daria said (in the Daria Diaries): "I don't go in for male-bashing. Why limit yourself?"

I would now like to extend this quote to the phenomenon of US-bashing which seems to be quite prevalent on this NG. "I don't go in for US-bashing. Why limit yourself?"

I'm not saying the US is perfect. Of course it isn't. Being a non-US citizen, I *know* it isn't. But fer chrissakes, can we get off the holier-than-thou pedestal and start broadening our bashing skills every once in awhile? Can someone actually look at all of this from a neutral position?

This sort of resembles the strong anti-West position that certain Asian countries have shown towards the US and most of Europe. It is accused that the Western world is without morals, that the people are uncouth and rude, that they have no love for culture or heritage, that they are overtly racist, that they are overly saturated with excessive sex and violence, and many other not-so-nice things. Some of these accusations are true. Some of them are not. It is a broad sweeping generalization that all Westerners are evil and cannot be trusted. It has permeated so deeply into many Asian countries, that if anything goes wrong, they will blame the West. Their youth are having more promiscous sex? Oh dear, it must be that damn American TV. Their youth are committing more crimes? Oh dear, it must be that awful German music. Blame Baywatch. Blame heavy metal. Blame the West. Anything but themselves.

You get the idea.

All I'm saying is, maybe it's a good idea to actually look in your own backyard for any weeds before going on to accuse your neighbor for not mowing his lawn.

And how about a Daria-related thread fer once eh?

Cheers, Nicole Lee

http://www.neekole.com

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny..." -- Isaac Asimov

"No, no, no, Lisa. If adults don't like their jobs, they don't go on strike. They just go in every day and do it really half-assed." -- Homer Simpson

Daria Code v1.1: A D T3 Ws Q+ FN^Fr O- OH+Oo+Od m- c+++ MV C5X F:111,213,313,406 BB- FCD DT q fN

Well, despite what my red-sympathetic viewpoints may imply, I'm not down on the US. They've done about as good as anyone else at being a country.

On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:42:01 GMT, [email] (Nicole Lee) wrote:

Kyle

I can't stand US bashing, but male bashing I find very helpful to society.

I hate US bashing because it's usually a lot of ignorance about capitalism, religion, race, etc. and it makes me sick.

But male bashing is good because men can be pretty sick and disgusting and they need to be controlled.

Grachman, The

<obST:TOSref> Someone find those funky bracelets from Spock's Brain for this one... </obST:TOSref>

On a more serious note, that's one of the most disturbing statements I've ever read - mainly because (and maybe it's just me) there's a sick, throbbing anger there that makes me think 'borderline psycho'.

Taking it at face value, yes some men are jerks. So are some women. Unfortunately in Western culture these days (maybe Eastern culture too.. don't know since I don't live in one) the jerks get the most press. Who do we hear the most about? The jock doing drugs... the gangsta rapper slapping down with his posse... the tycoon squashing everything in his path... the Rambo wannabe mowing down everything in Quake 3 (oh wait... that's just my friends.. :)

Fortunately, I firmly believe that _most_ men (and women) fall between the jerks and the Mr. O'Neill's of the world.

Don

On 27 Apr 2000 04:16:27 GMT, [email] (Grachman Olajuwon) wrote:

You have a very strange worldview, Grachman.

Religion and women should control men, who are violent apes.

Grachman, The

On 30 Apr 2000 03:15:46 GMT, [email] (Grachman Olajuwon) wrote:

You are straddling the line between amusing ideosynchrasies and crazy trollings quite admirably. I'm impressed :)

Kyle The Jeff Huson of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs

Wow- thanks for the compliment!!

Grachman, The

On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:42:01 GMT, [email] (Nicole Lee) wrote:

Just a moment. Hmm. I see your point. I'll contact my alien comrades immediately and tell them to pulverize the whole planet instead of just the USA. Thanks for pointing that out. I just wish all native inhabitants were like you. Would make my job a lot easier.

zrrrbxeeez yuuvvvly

---- They couldn't conquer the world. Now they're out to corrupt our kids! Dirty Drawings from Deutschland...Next on

On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:42:01 GMT, [email] (Nicole Lee) wrote:

At least the Japanese won't run accusations like that. The stuff they produce is way beyond everything Europeans and Americans put out.

You mean Bach, Beethoven and Mozart? Isn't this the only German music that ever made it to Asia? MSB

---- They couldn't conquer the world. Now they're out to corrupt our kids! Dirty Drawings from Deutschland...Next on

MSB wrote:

No, I think she's talking about the Scorpions and Falco. >;oP

(btw -- isn't David Hasselhoff like, one of the top sellers musically in Germany? [howling with laughter])

*evil cackle*

I love this.

LI

On Mon, 01 May 2000 04:07:01 GMT, Lady Interference wrote:

ARGH! It's this damn Conan O'Brien, right? He's telling that all the time. Hasselhoff had ONE big hit and that was this album with "I've been looking for freedom". And I think his popularity was largely carried over from the popularity of Knight Rider which I must admit was also one of my favorite shows as a kid. Anyway, neither David Hasselhoff nor Baywatch are particularly hot here right now. And BTW, David Hasselhoff's German was a lot more intelligible than Phil Collins's. When I first heard the Tarzan soundtrack I couldn't figure out what language it was (neither could my brother. He didn't even understand it when I told him it was German). Like those guys (can't remember if they're from the US or UK) who are doing a cover of Nena's "99 red balloons" right now. I guess not everybody can be a John F. Kennedy. Granted, it was just one sentence, but then, he wasn't being paid for it. The Beatles did a rather good job, too (still worse than JFK, though). I don't know about Elvis. BTW, does anybody know how well Phil Collins did for the other languages? I think he did 4 or 5 himself. MSB

---- They couldn't conquer the world. Now they're out to corrupt our kids! Dirty Drawings from Deutschland...Next on

Nicole Lee wrote:

Have I ever told you how much you frickin' RAWK, Nicole? Love ya muchos and muchos.

I also extend the love to Father Martin...Father, you RAWK hardcore! I just got the tape converted and IT IS SO DELICIOUS! THANK YOU! And thank you for also including the commercials...that is so beyond cool.

Anyways, I was born and raised in the States. I still live here now. I'd be the first to admit the US has its faults, but dammit if that isn't also the trademark of every other nation out there. Every nation out there has been created by humans, with their own fallibilities and slip-ups. The US has gone through its dark days already. The same cannot be said for many other countries who seem to enjoy needling the US ceaselessly.

On a side note...damn, I'm going to have to seriously catch up. *sighs* This is what happens when one gets really busy.

Missed ya guys,

LI

Lady Interference wrote:

Welcome back. Gonna stick around this time? :)

And where have you been, BTW?

-IdentityCrisis

[email] wrote:

Many hearty thanks, idcrisis. :) And...I'll try to...but I'm seriously looking for a synopsis of what's happened in the past two weeks. I have 775 unread messages here; I'm looking for a bone.

Oh, here, there, everywhere. Mainly just have time to check up on e-mail and two message boards lately.

http://pub10.ezboard.com/bintellectualbabeltd http://pub8.ezboard.com/bthezoidhomeworld

And I've also been trying to instill in my mind a slogan I find most admirable: "No one thinks neurotic is cute you stupid fuck." I'm practicing it along with trying not to be neurotic, like, ever.

I'm always available on AIM, though. AIM is cool. AIM is the best.

And also at first rejoicing, then cursing, the Daria browser. At first it was the coolest thing; now I don't want to use it.

Missed *ya*, idcrisis,

LI

Hmm... Well, the main thing I was going to say is to stay away from 2 or 3 specific threads unless you want to argue about politics and/or Elian (which would have saved you a good chunk of back-reading), but seeing as to how you've already dived into one such thread flames-first, I don't think that such advice would do you any good. :7

Aside from that, nothing really big comes to mind... Nicole Lee took a vacation and got to touch Trent Lane, MSB is giving an online programming course, some sadistic bastard inflicted a little finfic number called "Abruptly Amy" on us... But nothing I can think of off-hand that I'm sure would save you more than a dozen or so messages per topic...

Of course, I may be overlooking something, as I don't remember all of these conversations in detail...

Well, "neurotic," no. But don't give up on "quirky" or "eccentric" just yet. Those are still fun. ;7

"AIM?" I'm familiar with ICQ, but not AIM. What is it, exactly?

Likewise. :)

<snip>

<Barch mode> Good for you, dearie! You've castrated your .sig file! What brought you to this new level of enlightened behavior? Tell the rest of the males! </Barch mode>

-IdentityCrisis

[email] wrote:

LOL...I always end up getting stuck in those highly controversial debates even if I'm not particularly looking for a discussion of that sort. Normally I don't fare well, but on the '80s Server board, there was a debate about the whole "gay Boy Scout decision" and I argued my case well, methinks.

Ah, hm. I guess I'll have to read these messages, then. *sighs* Mentos ain't gonna save me now.

It's okay. I wouldn't expect you to remember every single word. Especially with some people being long in wind (and not the kind that stinks, either). :)

I think I was born "quirky", and some people think I'm "eccentric", so I should have no problem with that. I'm strictly going to be focusing in on "neurotic", though. btw -- how'd you like that slogan? I didn't make it up; borrowed it from someone.

AOL Instant Messenger. I have ICQ, but it's AIM I use all the time. It's sorta like ICQ, except you can type a lot more in reply-wise, it has the double-paned window that allows you to see what the person typed back to you, as well as what you're typing back in response, you can save the conversations if you'd like, you can do a lot more text formatting, and you can leave specific away messages that tell exactly why you're away. And it's easier to add and delete people, too.

I should get paid by the AOL people for that. LOL.

Ultrasupercoolness. :)

Heh heh heh. *snicker* Actually, I got fed up with so many things in one .sig, and besides, I'd tried to pattern it after the .sig I had on ezBoard, but I've long since changed it. I just kept the stuff I most wanted in the .sig. Might add a couple more lines, but that's it.

LI (um, did what I type make any sense?)

Lady Interference wrote:

I've managed to get myself into one here too, it seems. :7

Eh, a bit vicious for my tastes. I prefer more twisted and/or humurous slogans.

But, whatever keeps your head on straight, I suppose... :)

-IdentityCrisis

On Mon, 01 May 2000 04:48:38 GMT, Lady Interference wrote:

How can I get your AIM name? You don't have to post it on here, obviously. I'm never up late enough to catch you on ICQ anymore.

Kyl� The Jeff Huson of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs

"Lady Interference" wrote in message news:[email]...

just got the

including

<g> I'm pleased you enjoy the tape!

be the

trademark of

humans,

dark days

Beware complacency! "For evil to succeed, it is enough that the good do nothing." To live in a modern democracy is a great gift that carries with it great responsibilities.

That a nation tolerates criticism is a sign, I think, of its maturity. That its citizens *are* critical of public policy is a sign, I think, of a healthy democracy. The other options (suppression of dissent, or a citizenship too apathetic or unthinking to offer criticism) are sadly too common elsewhere in our world.

The US is a very powerful nation, so needs to be be self-critical, as well as open to the criticism of others. "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Many remarks that Americans interpret as anti-US are, I imagine, the fruit of envy or xenophobia. Some, such as the attitudes I'm told Americans often encounter in France, seem to spring from a fear that an ancient culture is drowning under American-led global culture.

There's also the misunderstanding that can spring from failing to allow for cultural difference. The relative values placed on humility and self-confidence vary from country to country, so attitudes that seem perfectly well-balanced in an American context can seem arrogant to people brought up in a different culture. See Daria's response to Tommy Sherman (that football guy) for the dynamics of an encounter with someone who appears to be arrogant and powerful.

But some remarks that might seem anti-American may spring from a genuine and well-intentioned concern that such a powerful nation should exercise that power responsibly, and with respect for the integrity of other nations. Even Henry Kissinger, hardly anti-American, is concerned. "[T]he post-cold-war generation of American leaders (whether graduated from the protest movements or [from] business schools) finds it possible to imagine that foreign policy consists merely of instructing the rest of the world. This turns our diplomacy into nothing more than demands for compliance with an American agenda." [1]

You too!

Martin.

[1] Henry A Kissinger. "The Legacy: The Long Shadow of Vietnam." _Newsweek_, 1 May 2000. p51.

Martin Sylvester wrote:

I am, I am!

It's not complacency, Father.

I've read some of what Nicole was talking about. It seems that the majority of this newsgroup is anti-American. I am proud of the country my family's called home for about 80 years. Therefore I'd want to defend its honor. Unfortunately, this newsgroup is seriously overflowing with people who are way too narrowminded to see that the US isn't "The Great Satan" or some evil to overthrow.

Yeah, but do I have to take some of the things being said here lying down? No.

So many of the people who are critical of the US on this newsgroup either don't know what they're talking about or are living in other countries SO THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. Canada and the US are two separate countries. England and the US are two separate countries. There are so many people from so many different countries who think they can tell the people of the US how to run their own country even when they don't have all the facts straight.

But there seems to be a glut of it on this newsgroup, like people are taking for granted the advances the US has made political-wise on democracy and other healthy developments around the world. So many people think that the changes brought on by the US government have always been there; in reality, where would the world be if the US hadn't existed?

I suppose you're right there.

Yikes, wish I could continue with the discussion but I have to go to school now. Part II...when I can get back to the newsgroup.

Ciao for now,

LI

On Mon, 01 May 2000 13:13:58 GMT, Lady Interference wrote:

Let's see. We'd all be speaking one language now. There'd be no more conflicts between different religions. We'd all have a single world currency. And there'd be no more people starving in the 3rd world. Sure, we'd all have the F�hrer's picture above our beds, but isn't that a small price to pay for a united world? Sometimes I wonder if I'm too cynical :-) MSB

---- They couldn't conquer the world. Now they're out to corrupt our kids! Dirty Drawings from Deutschland...Next on

Which advances did you have in mind? The Constitution and separation of powers were certainly advances on the British political system, but if the UK is anything to go by the spread of these ideas has been somewhat patchy - 200 years later we still don't have a written constitution here, and the Executive still controls the Legislature. As for democracy itself, it was supposedly invented by the Ancient Greeks, though of course they were rather selective in who they allowed to vote. Universal suffrage was introduced in Britain & America at around the same time I think, just after the First World War, but I feel sure there must have been other countries that had it sooner. The Vikings for instance used to have an annual people's parliament, so maybe Iceland or Denmark beat us to it?

It's hard to say, as I'm not sure which changes you have in mind here. History marches on and in most cases it seems if something hadn't been invented in one place it would have happened somewhere else sooner or later. It's like evolution, some things (such as eyes) turn out to be inevitable even though they are remarkable.

-Shez.

New Zealand was the first country to allow women to vote. Sometime in the 1890's.

Shez wrote:

I believe Finland was the first European country to give women voting rights.

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"Fetch Daddy's hard, plastic eyes, so that he can see the TV" --Carl, of Carl & Sons.

N.P.:"R i c o c h e t" - T a n g e r i n e D r e a m

On Mon, 01 May 2000 04:02:40 GMT, Lady Interference wrote:

I rawk? As in rawk and rawl? Er, that didn't work. Never mind.

You "rawk" too Diane ;)

Father Martin is an ultra-super-cool guy IRL too. I can vouch for that. ;)

Just in case you missed the post, come and see me and Trent Lane having a lovely pose together ;) The pic is at:

http://www.neekole.com/burtontrent.htm

On a side note: I saw a truck today that had a the name "Mack" on the side of it. Too bad I didn't have a camera then.. that would be an interesting pic :)

Cheers, Nicole Lee

http://www.neekole.com

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny..." -- Isaac Asimov

"No, no, no, Lisa. If adults don't like their jobs, they don't go on strike. They just go in every day and do it really half-assed." -- Homer Simpson

Daria Code v1.1: A D T3 Ws Q+ FN^Fr O- OH+Oo+Od m- c+++ MV C5X F:111,213,313,406 BB- FCD DT q fN

"Nicole Lee" wrote in message news:[email]...

But it did! 8-)

I checked my guess by looking up "rawk" in Cassell's Dictionary of Slang. [1] It's in! And <phew> yes, it = "rock"!

\|/
8-)
/|\

Blushing to the roots of my beard, Martin.

[1] URL: http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ser/serdsp.asp?shop=3530&isbn=0304351679&DB=220

Uncool, but IMHO necessary, caution: if you consider getting this book, you should be aware that since it is a comprehensive dictionary of slang and swear words, it contains some *very* rude terms. Fortunately, "Rawk" isn't one of them. ;:-) Parental review before use by minors is strongly recommended. You might not want to leave this book where your kid sibling can get at it.