Two seasons into Daria seems like a time to start favorite/least favorite episodes of the show. Like, Top 3's. Here's mine...
Favorite: 1. Write Where It Hurts 2. See Jane Run (funny as hell) 3. The Invitation
Least: 1. The New Kid (UUUUUUUGH) 2. Pierce Me (uuuugh) 3. College Bored
By the way, am I the only one who notices that Brottany is voiced by someone else in epiosdes 101 and 102? I believe Sarah Drew did it thereafter...
On 28 Aug 1998 20:28:29 GMT, [email] (Adam0013) wrote:
FWIW, it appears that the Obsessed About The Daria/Trent Thing people must have stuffed MTV's ballot box, because this weekend's "Favorite Daria Episodes" double feature is "Road Worriers" and "Pierce Me", two episodes guaranteed to give The Obsessed Ones the hot sweats over Trent. You'd think they'd have them on tape to watch over and over again, so they don't have to inflict it on the rest of us... *sigh*
You are not alone, my friend. I thought that Brittany's early voice was a lot better (except for "Esteemsters", where she sounded more like a film noir sex kitten than an airheaded blonde), but it's now at the point where only dogs can hear it. :-(
Martin (To send E-mail, remove the "nospam" from my E-mail address.) ---- Quinn: You kids know where Grandma's TV is. Go watch something educational. TV: "Breast implants for chickens???" Quinn & Daria: Not that!!
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8< Lists snipped to save space... 8<
I'll chime in with my list after I finish watching Season 1 again on tape... I want to keep a bit of perspective. It seems that these lists are skewed a bit towards Season 2, simply because they're fresh on our minds.
I myself voted for "Pierce Me," because it's one of the best they've done, IMO. The A and B plots meshed perfectly, and shared a common theme: Stupid, painful things done in the name of beauty. Our Heroine spending quality time with Trent is also a plus. Let me put my standard "Daria and Trent" disclaimer here, though. Daria and Trent should *by no means* "hook up" (Jake: "It's 'hook up' now, right?") on the show. There's too much right about their present situation, and too much of a risk of things going horribly wrong for the show if they do.
That being said, I have to wonder if the folks at MTV aren't looking at these results and seeing a clamoring for a romance on the show. Let's hope not.
Chris Majors (who most assuredly does *not* get hot sweats over Trent...) :)
On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:12:53 GMT, [email] wrote:
I do agree that "Pierce Me" is a very good episode (I admit, it's in my Top Ten list). I guess my growing aversion to the "drooling Daria" angle is no so much the concept itself, but the growing ranks of The Obsessed Ones who have taken an innocent teenaged crush, read between the lines, and discovered things that simply aren't there.
Would it surprise you if I said that your disclaimer and my disclaimer are virtually identical? :-)
I've said before that I wouldn't necessarily object to some kind of romance, but IMHO it should wait until the series is almost over. As you said, they've got too much of a good thing going now to spoil it with a romantic angle.
FWIW... you may have noticed that in Daria's "future story" in WWIH, she was *NOT* married, engaged, or in any other way hooked up with Trent. If this were really as serious as The Obsessed Ones think it is, you'd expect this to be the exact opposite, or at the very least *some* mention of Trent made. If I were to read between the lines, I might think that this is a sign from the producers that a Daria/Trent hookup is not in the cards, period... iI were to read between the lines. <grin>
Martin (To send E-mail, remove the "nospam" from my E-mail address.) ---- Quinn: You kids know where Grandma's TV is. Go watch something educational. TV: "Breast implants for chickens???" Quinn & Daria: Not that!!
It didn't really say, did it? Helen asked if she had plans to expand her family, so Daria was probably married. No one said who to, though.
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In article , [email] wrote:
The lucky fella was identified as "Marcello".
However, look at what she is wearing around her neck while in that "future story"...it sure looks like Trent's necklace.
In any event, "Marcello" was apparently a college professor. And they didn't want kids.
Take care, --.\\<-H--
I remember that, and I remember Helen saying that Daria's husband's name was Marcello... okay, is it Trent's middle name? I doubt it. I think it's because Daria wrote the story, and it's definately NOT Daria to put the name of the guy she likes in the story.... as her husband. That's waaay too cutesy for her. Besides, Marcello is a classy European name, much like Daria's attitude was in that whole story segment; classy and artsy.
In article , [email] wrote:
WARNING: RAMBLE AHEAD ...
I don't really want to get into the whole debate, but either way, the D/T thing will be a problem for the writers. Too much throwing D & T together with nothing happening will get just as old as too much throwing them together with something happening will get old. Any plot device, when overused, becomes hackneyed, cliched, and trite. That's why IMHAHO, the best shows only last for a few seasons, then gracefully depart, leaving us wanting more. This is unlike some "great" shows that become so bad that when they finally do shuffle off their mortal TV coil (or is it cable now?), the viewers are not as much saddened as relieved. Yes, I'll admit it: I danced when MASH ended, I cheered when Cheers hit the bricks, I was glad to see The Cosby Show go, happy to bid Murphy Brown adieu, and I know I breathed a bit easier when Seinfeld ended. All were strong starters, and all made me laugh so hard at times that I alomst damaged some internal organs, but good Gawd, they were all bad for a while towards the end (some for longer than others), and their lingering demises made me root for their demises to accelerate, because it pained me to see such bad writing. The writers on all of them started to rely on the same formulae that had gotten them to the top as a crutch, and that'll make any good show as bad as any pilot that never sees the light of day.
If Daria were to conclude within the next few seasons (and, knowing MTV, it'll happen just as soon as the episodes get even more intelligent), my plea to the writers would be to tie everything up in a big neat bow over a few eps, a sort of a present for the faithful viewers. (Or at least the ones with brains.) And, yes, that would also mean wrapping up the D/T thing one way or another (but surprise us!). But, if the show still has legs, and Viacom is still behind its big animation push, then it's still way too early for any of that.
BTW, a good example of a show that had a "graceful exit" is Babylon 5 (if you're not into sf, well, suffice it to say that they stuck to 5 years of eps, telling one complex story with a beginning, a middle, and a definite end. They even had a 4 season contingency plan to wrap it all up early, just in case they didn't get to season 5.) The finale airs in a few months. You may/not like the plot, but you've gotta respect the resolve of the creative forces behind the show to let it grow, then let it go.
Good examples of "shows in trouble/crisis," IMHO, are Friends (they beat that horse to death), Caroline in the City (approaching unwatchable-- the characters are as two-dimensional as the cartoons she supposedly writes), Dharma and Greg (Ok, now what?), ER/Chicago Hope/Generic Doctor Shows (overplayed, overhyped, overdramatic-- See, e.g., LA Law), and Frasier (it saddens me to add this show, but they're really stuck in some bad plot ruts over there.)
"We're through playin' now!" --Hee Haw. END RAMBLE.
Rich.
"Absolute certainty is stasis, boring. We need uncertainty -- it's the only way to go." -- Dr. Leon Lederman, physicist.
In article , [email] wrote:
these
8<snip some good rambling... 8<
Agreed totally! {cheers}
You
Excellent example. I've brought up B5 before as an example of what to do. The creator of the show had envisioned >at the beginning< a 5-year story, and they've stuck to it. I get the feeling that the same kind of long-range story is being told with "Daria." It's apparent from interviews with Glenn Eichler that he truly cares about his creation, and has a definite idea of where she's going. If it takes him 3 seasons to tell that story, then that's fine with me. What will get me sending hate mail to Viacom, though, will be if the show is cancelled before he's done with the characters. Daria's going through the classic "transformative journey" saga, much like any of your better epic poems, or even "Star Wars," for that matter. By the end of the show, Daria should realize that, like she said in "College Bored," high school may not have been the best years of her life, but it certainly had its moments.
Hm. A bunch of shows I don't watch anyway. Thanks for confirming my suspicions about them. :)
Chris Majors
[email] wrote:
[Stuff I wrote about B5 snipped, blah, blah, sanity, blah]
Who can forget that wonderful literary term, "Bildungsroman?" I think that describes the concept in one big ol' German word. And yes, HS sure did have its moments. (Lawd, yes!) And they weren't always sweet, but if they had been, then you'd never have any really good stories to tell. <g>
I try to keep an eye on what's going on when I'm doing one of a hundred other things thanks to the VCR, which faithfully helps to weed out a lot of the garbage out there. There really are some good shows being done these days, and a lot of the above shows had strong starts, but all are/becoming very fast-forwardable, or will be very soon.
Let's face it, there are two kinds of shows, there are the ones that everyone says that they watch (like Frontline, Nova, anything with Desmond Morris), and those that no one admits that they watch (ER, Springer, Loveline, etc.). One of my former English Lit. profs called these latter shows "guilty pleasures." My guilty pleasure? The Crocodile Hunter. That guy is nuts, and his wife is even crazier, but for some reason, I can't help myself... it's like trying not to rubberneck... I mean, those crocs are friggin' HUGE! ;-)
As for my friends, it's kinda funny to find out what their guilty pleasures are. One friend who is a staunch NPR listener and generally dislikes almost all TV (and reminds us frequently) also watches Melrose Place and South Park religiously. Another "intellectual" friend of mine has a weak spot for Sabrina. Another friend, who doesn't even have cable, (and claims to spend that extra $30 on subscriptions to Foreign Affairs and other mags of its ilk) won't answer the phone when Spin City comes on. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.
rich. (testing out a new way to post his long-winded messages...) Mr. O'Neill: Let's pledge to make Daria's dream a reality!
Daria: You mean the one where people walking down the street burst into flames?
Mr. O'Neill: The coffeehouse!
that
I'll admit that "Frasier" may not be what it used to be, but it's still a Hell of a lot better than most shows. Here in England, one of the four major stations currently shows two episodes every Friday, between "Spin City" and "South Park". Although this doesn't prove its quality in any way, it's one of the highest rated shows we get.
Shadowcloak [email] http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/7252/
"Hey, Bernie, could you rig me up for Pac-Man while you guys finish off the planet?" - Zonker Harris
[email] (Shadoc64) wrote:
Okay, granted Frasier has had its moments (yes, some damn funny ones, and some very smart ones, too), and I do like the show, but they get so hung up on the same themes that it seems that the charcters are becoming more and more flat and stereotyped with each ep. Whatever happened to character development???
rich.
"Absolute certainty is stasis, boring. We need uncertainty -- it's the only way to go." -- Dr. Leon Lederman, physicist.
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I never understood the whole "Frasier" phenomenon at all. He was one of the least appealling characters on "Cheers" and frankly I would have been satisfied if they killed him off of that show. I tried to watch "Frasier" at the beginning and it was tremendously painful for me(Same thing goes for "3rd Rock...." How did that crap ever get on the air?).
[email] wrote:
I love "Frasier"--the interplay between the characters, the writing quality is what does it for me. It took a little while before I watched it regularly, though.
(Same thing goes for "3rd
Not even God knows.
In article , [email] wrote:
The early "Frasier" episodes were painful, and I didn't watch it for a long time, but it improved a lot. There are still a lot of weak episodes, but the occasional one is brilliant. A favorite scene is a romantic triangle between three psychiatrists, who when all is revealed argue between Freudian, Jungian, and Gestalt psychology interpretations of the affair!
In article , [email] wrote:
Well, a full season only appears to be 13 episodes long so a few more seasons isn't a tremendous amount but I do agree here. This is the sort of thing that should be handled at the very end of the series and only kept as sort of "background radiation" until then.
creative forces behind the show to let it grow, then let it go.
B5 is great example, before it even started it was set to end after five years no matter how popular it was at the end. So, in effect the whole thing was planned in advanced where the story would go(now the episodes themselves weren't written but a general direction was laid out) so there would be only a small chance of the writer "writing himself into a corner." Personally, I wasn't into it at first but when I started watching, I liked what I saw.
[email] wrote:
Same here. At first, I thought it was going to be one of those really cheesy syndicated series-- you know, the ones that are so low on budget that they not only have cheap SFX, but also B- talent. I was surprised by the ability of the storylines to suck me into the show, and I've more or less tried to follow it over the last 5 years.
Taking a Byte for Lunch, rich.
Mr. O'Neill: Let's pledge to make Daria's dream a reality!
Daria: You mean the one where people walking down the street burst into flames?
Mr. O'Neill: The coffeehouse!
what time are these two airing...I missed Pierce Me the first time around, and I'm dying to see this now.
bh4
On 29 Aug 1998 03:20:01 GMT, [email] (WalMartbh4) wrote:
7:00pm and 7:30pm EDT on Saturday, 2:00pm and 2:30pm EDT on Sunday. If this post doesn't reach you in time for Saturday, it should still give you ample warning for Sunday. :-)
Martin (To send E-mail, remove the "nospam" from my E-mail address.) ---- Quinn: You kids know where Grandma's TV is. Go watch something educational. TV: "Breast implants for chickens???" Quinn & Daria: Not that!!
Thank you very much...setting up the VCR right now 'cause I have to be at work then, but I'll get to see it when I get home.
bh4
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My favorites would be:
1. Road Worrier (NOT because I'm obcessed with Daria/Trent, but because it's a very funny episode.) 2. Pinch Sitter (Tad! Tricia!) 3. See Jane Run (You'll laugh, you'll cry. I loved this one, even though I over-watched it pretty quick...I'm giving my VCR a couple weeks off.)
Least Favorites...:
1. "The New Kid"- Maybe if Ted didn't have such a grating voice, I would have accepted it, but I couldn't make any sense of this episode. 2. "The Daria Hunter"- I thought this one was all right the first time, but after "Fair Enough", a nearly identical concept, came out, I found the string-of-subplots concept pretty tiresome. "Fair Enough" was funnier, though. 3. "Quinn the Brain"- I thought this one was fine, right up until the climax. I had fits when Daria started dressing up as Quinn. I understood what Daria was trying to do (show Quinn what it was like to have her identity stolen), it seemed like a lame attempt to get Daria in a funny outfit, and at the same sort of say "See, Beavis-and-Butthead audience? Daria is secretly hot! You can watch this show now!" Plus, any episode with that much Quinn...'nuff said.
Funny, these are among my FAVORITE episodes. The objections to "Quinn the Brain" are the reasons I like it. We see that Daria is a very attractive young lady and she merely hides her attractiveness. I think that's the whole point of the show and the character. It would be easy for an unequivocally unattractive character to complain about "Isn't there any time when how you look doesn't affect how you're judged?" Such a complaint might be dismissed as "sour grapes" coming from an unattractive person. Coming from someone like Daria such an observation is quite meaningful since, as we later see, she can easily move from between being unattractive and unpopular to being attractive (an maybe popular) any time she chooses. I think that makes her observation about being judged on attractiveness all the more significant.
"The New Kid" has several themes to commend it. First of all there's the satire about the anti-technology, anti-business counterculture. Then there's a new character who appreciates Daria for who she is, rather than how she rates on the popularity scale. We also see that Daria isn't quite as well-read and well- informed as she thought (Goya, Orpheus). She's not perfect. She admits it to Ted ("I can't keep up...) It adds to her human character. There's more to being human than merely doing something stupid for a member of the opposite sex.
Of course in my view there aren't ANY bad Daria episodes. Some are better than others, depending on your point of view, but even the worst episode of Daria is better than a good episode of most other TV shows, though I'd be pretty hard pressed to decide which Daria episode I'd call "worst." I like them all.
Bob
In article , [email] wrote:
While we're on the subject of favorite eps, I thought I'd throw my two cents in, too. I voted for "Road Worrier" on MTV because it's a riot... I just love the part when the fashion club comes into the diner and Stacy freaks because she thinks she's wearing stretch pants and Sandy has to calm her down. ("They're LEGGINGS!") My other favorite would have to be "The Misery Chick"... there are some great jokes in there, but it also has a more serious sting in its tail. I really related to it. I also loved the b/w pilot, "Sealed With A Kick" just cuz it's so interesting to see how Daria and the gang have evolved.
On the whole Daria/Trent thing... I love the "moments" they have, but I think of them kinda like Mulder and Scully on "The X-Files": as long as the possibility is there, it's great, but I think the show'll be wrecked if they actually do get together... I hope MTV continues to tease us with it now and then, though, as they did in "Road Worrier," "Pierce Me," and "Ill".
Any thoughts?
Jeanne
In article , [email] wrote:
have
My favorite episodes are always in flux. In no particular order:
PINCH SITTER ROAD WORRIERS ESTEEMSTERS ILL SEE JANE RUN I DON'T PIERCE ME
My least favorite episode, again, in no particular order:
FAIR ENOUGH DARIA HUNTER THIS YEAR'S MODEL.
* It's interesting to note, that my least favorite episodes are all episodes where the basic plot could have been told sans Daria ...
�S. Mc Allister
Adam0013 wrote:
On 28 Aug 1998 20:28:29 GMT, [email] (Adam0013) wrote:
Even though I am a newcomer to the fans of Daria, it doesn't take long to get some ones to watch over and over and ones to fast forward past on my tapes.
Top 3: 1> Write where it hurts (Felt like it was my life) 2> Arts 'N Crass (wouldn't you love to do that to your principal?) 3> The Big House ("I didn't know we HAD a curfew!/Thats funny Daria, I didn't either.., but according to your mother..")
Bottom 3: (even these aren't bad)
1> The Daria Hunter (Boring) 2> This Years Model (And I thought my High School was bad) 3> Fair Enough (It was good up to the point of the preperation for the fair.)
I wonder, does MTV/Animation monitor this newsgroup or other Daria discussion boards? Would be interesting if they made an ep based of someones FanFic.. Just a thought
They did. They called it "Quinn the Brain."
Wraith I'm really quite pleasant until I'm awake
On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:45:04 GMT, [email] (Nick Schirmer) wrote:
Problem is, they have way too much work to do just sifting through all the scripts and story ideas submitted by professional agencies and their own writing staff. They'd never have the time to adapt a fanfic story, even if there weren't legal issues involved (compensation for the author, potential lawsuits if a fanfic story is plagerized, and so on).
That's not to say that some of our ideas won't make it into a future episode, however assuming that any of the "Daria" or MTV Animation execs read these groups. (It's not unheard of; more than a few ideas and suggestions floating around the Internet, BBS, and FidoNet groups appeared in episodes of "Star Trek: The Next Generation".)
Martin (To send E-mail, remove the "nospam" from my E-mail address.) ---- Quinn: You kids know where Grandma's TV is. Go watch something educational. TV: "Breast implants for chickens???" Quinn & Daria: Not that!!
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They do. Although, they're in permanent "lurk" mode. Distrust >anyone< who posts saying they're from the show. It's too easy to fake an address.
"Daria" seems to have settled on a "stable" of writers, anyway. A large percentage of the shows have been written by the same 5 or 6 people: Glenn Eichler, Anne Bernstein, Neena Beber, Peggy Nichol, Sam Johnson and Chris Marcil.
In fact, this has happened. You can find a list of fan plot ideas used in the show at Sick, Sad World ( http://www.ssw.net ). But I'd attribute that more to coincidence than the writers mining the fans for ideas.
Chris Majors
Just one point that needs to be made: Fan fiction by its very nature is plagiarization ...eh?
�S. Mc Allister
Martin J. Pollard wrote:
Steven McAllister wrote:
Just one point that needs to be made: Fan fiction by its very nature is plagiarization ...eh?
�S. Mc Allister
Martin J. Pollard wrote:
Every year, my high school invites the army in to give talks. The yokel conformists lap it up. "Kill the enemy... Whoever it happens to be..."
Shadowcloak [email] http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/7252/
"Hey, Bernie, could you rig me up for Pac-Man while you guys finish off the planet?" - Zonker Harris
After doing a quick run into Planet Daria to look at the episode summaries and refresh my memory about the earlier shows, I am ready to sort things out a little. I'm not going to do a 3 best and 3 worst list. In fact, I can't say there was a bad episode, just some that were less great than others. And the ones I like best are listed in no particular order.
For me, the first 6 or so episodes didn't really stand out, though when I see them again I may change my mind. But they serve more to establish the series and the characters. From then on is where the show really picked up--and the three that stand above the rest from the first season are: Misery Chick, Pinch Sitter and The Big House. As for the second season, I go with: I Don't, Ill, Pierce Me, and Write Where It Hurts.
Maybe in the future as the first season is rerun again I'll make some notes and rank the episodes or grade them or something. But don't hold your breath because I spend too much time online as it is. :-)
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<SNIP>
Okay, it was tough to figure out both categories (mostly because the writing--even in the "bad" eps-- is so much better than the standard fare), but here's my list:
BEST: (In no particular order... all 3 are #1s...) 1. "Ill" -- If you'd ever had a mysterious case of the hives in Jr. High, you could instantly relate... 2. "Esteemsters" -- If you'd ever had to move around a lot, blah, blah, blah. 3. "Road Worrier" -- Again, I could relate to the Road Trip From Hell (not so much the crush thing, altho it is kinda cute.) I've been on quite a few of those RTFHs... Let's just say I don't recommend breaking down in rural NC on a Sunday afternoon, even if you're NOT in a hurry. (*Shudder*)
LEAST BEST: (I'll still watch 'em over most anything else, though.) 1. "Too Cute" -- Amusing, but I just didn't find that it was any more than that. And I pray that no doctor would behave like Dr. Shar, or else I'll give up on doctors completely. 2. "Daria Hunter" -- Implausible premise, fragmented storyline, yell at the continuity guy. Nuf sed. (Worst Continuity in a Feature Film? "Twister." My sister's late iguana could've done a better job.) 3. "College Bored" -- I dunno, I just didn't like it that much. Besides the fact that a 14 year old is hanging out at a fraternity party, add to that the premise that either the students there are too stupid to do their own work, or the professors are too oblivious to tell a canned paper from real work, and, well, it just left me with a "dirty" feeling. (You know, the *bad* kind of dirty.)
As for "Fair Enough," I actually enjoyed it, even though most of the usual participants on the group said something to the effect that it sucked. It had some of the best lines in the whole season, like "Inquisition, inquisition!" "Get away from me, you Howdy-Doody-looking freak!" "Oh, you know that's not true," and "Do I look desperate now?" as well as the lines below my sig, which still make me smirk. And to top it all off, Quinn gets beaned with turkey legs, Brittany & Kevin get beaned with books (irony, irony!), Joey and Jamie get whacked by Mr. DeMartino, and Upchuck gets assaulted by Tom & Linda's spawn (they're *not* children, I tell you...). I ask you, *what* could be better? <g>
Hmmm... I guess I found the theme for that ep... even Mack gets assaulted, and Mrs. Bennett gets dunked.
Rich.
Jane: Uh-oh, someone just left us in a position of authority.
Daria: The day has suddenly turned sinister.
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I'm not going to comment on them because everyone is going to be able to read my opinion on every episode over the next few weeks, anyway.
Favorites(in no particular order): 1) The Big House 2) Pinch Sitter 3) See Jane Run 4) Monster
Least Favorites 1) The Daria Hunter 2) Too Cute 3) This Year's Model 4) College Board