Best Daria Moment

This week's survey: Best moments on Daria

A stand-up-and-cheer moment from "Fat Like Me":

Stacy: How come?! Because I can't take it anymore! I'm sick of doing all the work while you just sit there! I tried my best, and even if it wasn't as good as Sandi's or Quinn's, a chain is only as strong as its weakest round thingie, and you refused to lift one frikkin' finger! I'm through running the Fashion Club all by myself while you (imitating Tiffany) staaare in the mirrorrr and talllk about yourselllf (normal voice) and I - I - I *QUIT*!!!

M Man

M Man wrote:

That's a great moment, but I have one from "Life in the Past Lane" that's just as good!

Stacy: Oh Sandi, you are so naive!

Sandi: Huh?

(The teachers get the coffin open -- and Upchuck's gone!)

I have to admire Stacy for faking those tears!

Belle Book

Yes, that was a good one.

Hmmm. I don't know about a "best" Daria moment. I couldn't pick just one. There are so many great ones. My favorite Brittany-scene:

(dialogue from Outpost Daria)

Brittany - By the way, Daria, I just want you to know I think it's really brave of you to get those contact lenses and admit that you care about the way you look, even just a little. Because knowing that a brain can be worried about her looks makes me feel, um, I don't know, not so shallow or something. Like we're not that different, just human, or whatever.

(Daria emerges from stall)

Daria - Well, thank you, Brittany. You're right. We *are* just human or whatever. (bumps into door and groans as she leaves)

Jodie - That was really nice, Brittany.

Brittany - It was?

Jane - I gotta admit, that was the right thing to say.

M Man

"MMan37x" wrote in message news:[email]...

one.

brave

you

about her

we're

You left out the clinching line:

Brittany - Wow! (puts on cheap glasses) These things really do work!

I had enough trouble picking out favorite episodes. But to pick out one single moment? Sheesh! I'll post one line here that says it all, but believe me, it's one of many...

"Besides, why shouldn't I act sisterly towards her? After all...she's my sister."

Jeg7777 wrote:

That's one of my favorites as well. I * loved * seeing Quinn finally admit that Daria was her sister. And it was about time, too!

Belle Book

"GeoBQn" kirjoitti...

Again, a problem of too large selection. Here are my choices of the best moments chosen from episodes between #101-#311. Quotes from Outpost Daria.

First, some great plot opening wording:

<#306> Helen - A mortician?! Daria - Hey, it's not my fault. Neck model was already taken. Helen - "Your lack of interest in personal interaction makes you an ideal candidate for working with the dead." Daria, have you given any thought to your career plans? Daria - I guess I'll just wait around for people to kick the bucket. Helen - I can't believe you're not more ambitious. Daria - You want me to kill people to drum up business? </#306>

Then, a mid-episode scene:

<#206> Jake - You just can't put a price on a moment like this Daria. And once these years are gone, they're gone. Daria - Dad, it's 4am. I just woke up from my worst nightmare, resembling my sister. You're reliving an instance of parental neglect from four years ago. You call this parent and child bonding? Jake - Works for me. Daria - Let's watch again. </#206>

In my opinion, ending should be the best part of any fictional program. A flat ending makes the whole preding episode feel worthless. A /deus ex machina/ makes it needless. A perfect ending keeps up the atmosphere of the episode while giving the finishing touches to the story.

While "Daria" frequently fails with the opening scenes, the closing scenes compensate them well enough.

<#211> (Daria and Jane unenthusiastically do cheerleading drills) Ms. Morris - Come on, ladies. You've got a lot of work to make up. (claps) Jane - Tell me that at least I have my integrity. Daria - Integrity is a funny word. Jane - Well, then, at least tell me I'm marginally less corrupt than the jocks. Daria - You refused to participate in a crooked system where good grades are exchanged for athletic performance. But you didn't try to reform the system, either. Jane - For fear of complete teenage exile. Daria - Right. So the system continues, you haven't redeemed yourself, and we're ostracized anyway. Jane - Come on, now, stop trying to paint a rosy picture. Daria - You know what? Jane - What? Daria - They really are preparing us for the real world. Brittany - Daria! Jane! Come on! It's time for splits! (falls on face) Ow! </#211>

<#308> Trent - Janey's right. Monique and I just aren't meant to be. Too bad you're not a few years older, huh? I could take you out. (chuckles, coughs) See you. (leaves) (Daria's fantasy) Trent - Daria, you're the best thing that ever happened to me. (fantasy ends) Daria - Damn. </#308>

<#213> Jane - Wow. Well, listen, now that you've got such a great attitude and everything, can I have your boots? Daria - Yeah. Turn around and I'll give you one right now. Jane - Daria, do you think... someday... /I/ can read your story? Daria - No. But you can read the one where you run away with Kevin. Jane - /What?!/ </#213>

[email] (GeoBQn) wrote in message news:...

The Social Hell dream sequence from "Ill". I think the scene of Daria plummeting through the clouds was used in Season 2 promos.

Daria laying out all of her family's emotional foibles (including her own) in "Psycho Therapy".

"The Daria Hunter": Daria marching through the woods in combat gear while narrating her grim observations of "war".

"See Jane Run": Daria takes up talking to herself after Jane joins the track team and doesn't have as much time to spend with her.

and really too many more to mention...

AHH!! Me too!!!! I thought I was nuts, no one else remember that other than me!! But wasn't it from an earlier promo than that? I swear it was used on a commercial to introduce Daria as a new series.

Kristi

x~x~x~x~x Fanfic, pictures: www.gurlpages.com/ofnone

WWDD (what would darwin do?)

Spoiler space:

All the dream/fantasy sequences are good, apart from the chair one in Sappy Anniversary.

The one from TALD where Daria's marching down the hall is a favorite.

But nothing gave me more chills than when Young Daria crawled into the refrigerator box in Boxing Daria. The formative moment....

Al B

Al B. wrote:

Definitely the key event in determining how Daria became the way she was. She learned to shield herself from hurt by "hiding in a box" -- at first a literal box, later her cynical and sarcastic remarks. But what she learned in BD was that her shield could ultimately turn destructive if it outlived its usefulness.

Belle Book

I always liked the Quinn's "breakthrough" speech from Monster. It was the first time I saw Quinn as a *person*, rather than a parody.

(this isn't exact) "It's like sometimes I'm walking down the hall with Sandy and Stacy and Tiffany and I think, 'Who ARE these people' Can't we talking about anything else other than makeup and boys and cars?' But then, what WOULD we talk about? You have to be good at something. Like, you [Daria] have you reading and writing; and you [Jane] have your little drawings. So I guess being cute and popular is what i'm good at. It may not be like important or whatever, but it's something. <nervous twitter>"

Ice Queen

x~x~x~x~x Fanfic, pictures: www.gurlpages.com/ofnone

WWDD (what would darwin do?)

You know what? I wondered if Quinn actually *knew* that Daria and Jane were originally making that documentary of her to mock her shallowness, as opposed to "glorifying" her popular lifestyle, and took a "pre-emptive strike" with her little speech, knowing that her "Cousin Daria" (at the time) would suddenly get a hit in her conscience afterwards?

If any of you recall, Helen had done the same sort of thing earlier in the ep to Daria and Jane after seeing the (in)famous pore complaint scene from Quinn on the TV screen.

Quinn herself sneaked into O'Neill's classroom to see how her sister and Jane had portrayed her near the end of the ep. I think Quinn *had* to know what she was doing. What do you think? Thanks.

-Steven Galloway

Apparently the only scene Daria removed was the pore-complaint scene. The repetitve "which is my best side?" scenes still made Quinn look extremely shallow - except to her many admirers, of course.

By the way, which *is* Quinn's best side? :-)

M Man

MMan said:

Neither.

She's cursed by perfect symmetry ;-)

"MMan37x" wrote in message news:[email]...

were

opposed

with

suddenly

the

Quinn

what

Yeah but the one thing that bothered me about that episode was when the girl came up to Quinn and said she thought she was the only one ashamed of her pores.

Quinn answers that it's okay to be ashamed of your pores but do not be ashamed of your shame. Now how did the subject of pores come up if Daria had cut that scene out of the movie?

Firah

Good question. I thinks it's come up before.

I don't recall anyone coming up with a better answer than "somebody goofed". :-(

M Man

Even better example: Quinn admitted to the group offscreen that even she has pore problems, etc., to make herself look more normal-yet-distant, therefore gaining even more "relate-ability"/likeablility/popularity at LHS.

Adam

SGall23241 wrote:

I pretty much assumed that at the time, which doesn't necessarily make it any less honest. It was both a preemptive strike and an honest appraisal of her life at the same time. That's what made it great to me.

-michael farris

Steven G said:

I think Quinn originally thought Daria's documentary would be good for her image. Any publicity is good publicity, so even publicity by Daria couln't be THAT damaging. After all, Quinn knew that she was eternally pefect, and that there wasnt' a single thing about her that was unpleasant. Quinn thought that until she started to notice what Daria was filming, and started to see herself through someone else's eyes, and realize that she may sometimes act just a TAD conceited. So when that happened, Quinn started to think about WHY she behaved the way she does, and she found the reason: "I act snobby to fit in with my friends.... but if I really AM snobby, it's ok because being snobby is just who I am." Thus the speech, in which Quinn was trying to prove her own personal value to Daria, and to herself.

Think of it as the *beginnings* of Quinn beginning to re-evaluate herself and change, culminating in her admission a year later that Daria is her sister. Remember, _Daria_ deals in subtleties. Quinn didn't notice what Daria was taping and then suddenly decide to completely change herself. It was part of a slow evolution, a gradual process of growth and maturity that affected both the Morgandorffer girls over the course of the show.

Kristi

x~x~x~x~x Fanfic, pictures: www.gurlpages.com/ofnone

WWDD (what would darwin do?)

Kristi said:

a

the

This is one of the good things about the show in general. It deliberately avoids the "problem solved by end of episode" format so common in most sitcoms. Instead, problems may be displayed to the audience one ep, then many eps later noticed by the character, then _seasons_ later solved.

Most sitcoms don't do character development like that.

Jordan mused:

I agree COMPLETELY. If Daria had stuck to the format, I wouldn't have lasted through the first episode I ever saw. not only is it so unrealistic that it makes the characters unrelatable; it's just annoying. Plus, it completely disrespects the intelligence of the viewer, and it assumes that we live to see "happy ending," and that we'll keep watching each episode so we can feel happy. On the contrary, not resolving issues by the end of each ep, and instead making them into an arc (which still making each episode a stand-alone) is far more enthralling and addictive. :)

Kristi

x~x~x~x~x Fanfic, pictures: www.gurlpages.com/ofnone

WWDD (what would darwin do?)

Kristi wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly, and can give my own example -- "Dye! Dye! My Darling" and "Is It Fall Yet?" DDMD was the first episode I ever saw, and IIFY? was what hooked me onto the series. DDMD had a problem that definitely * couldn't * be solved by the end of the episode, and while IIFY? * did * manage to solve that particular problem, the reverberations from the TV-movie in that and other issues in the movie continued into Season 5. All for the better, since I got to see so many issues emerging in Season 5 -- the development of Quinn's intelligence, Stacy's finally getting a backbone, Daria and Tom's continuing relationship (and its ups and downs), and of course, "Boxing Daria", where Daria perhaps completely breaks out of her rebellious track and learns to use her considerable intelligence in a more constructive way.

Belle Book

Kristi wrote:

I'd say that at that point, Quinn realized that she acted just a little * more * than a tad conceited, and I also think Quinn's realization of how Daria sees her might well have been the beginning of her re-evaluation of herself. She doesn't change overnight, because this change doesn't happen instantly (heck, the changes she underwent in "Is It Fall Yet?" didn't happen instantly), but she does change.

That reminds me, what episode do you think is the beginning of Daria's * own * maturation?

Belle Book

Belle Book said:

maturation?

The very first one, "Esteemsters." Daria reached out and found a friend :)

Interesting that, in "Esteemsters", we never really see which one of them takes the initiative - such as who invited whom to walk home together, or who first introduces herself by name (though presumable Jane caught Daria's name when DeMartino introduced her to the class).

M Man

M said re: how did Jane and Daria's friendship get started:

Y'kno, with the "Jane" to my "daria", my closest and oldest friend (whom I got to be close with when we were the same age as Jane and Daria), it's the same situation. neither of us can remember the turning point that took us from classmates to friends. I think a good, long-standing friendship grows naturally and doesn't seem to have a beginning. You could say that Daria and Jane became friends in the Esteem class, or that they weren't really "friends" (as opposed to acquantences) until episodes later.

Belle Book pondered which ep was Daria's maturation ep. (btw, that word makes Daria sound like a biology experiment) I agree that she grew and changed a little in every ep, from Esteemsters on. But I think I have to pick the obvious one: Boxing Daria. Maybe it was just the CULMINATION of a lot of "maturity moments", but I think it in that ep Daria burned the bridge to childhood and embarked on adulthood. She realized then that she can't blame her problems on her family, that personal issues are a complicated issue and, in her case, they are no one's "fault", per se. This realization means that for the first time, Daria considered her life not with the thought processes of a rebellious teenager, but with those of an adult who is willing to accept responsibility for her own thoughts, behavior, and emotions.

Kristi

x~x~x~x~x Fanfic, pictures: www.gurlpages.com/ofnone

WWDD (what would darwin do?)

Kristi said:

Before then, she had merely rebelled. Now, she realized that crticizing the flaws of others and breaking free from their prejudices was only half the task; the greater task was to construct something new and good of her own to champion, and to open herself to those willing to help her in this project..

Jordan said:

Yes, exactly.

Kristi

x~x~x~x~x Fanfic, pictures: www.gurlpages.com/ofnone

WWDD (what would darwin do?)

Jane does. She's the one who offers to tell Daria whats going on with the self esteem workshop. Jane has something to say that Daria is interested in. So she lets her guard down just a little, and finds herself enjoying Jane's wit and skewed outlook on things. The fact that Jane is not put off by Daria's comments or intellegence simply cements things.

One wonders what might have happened had Daria and Jane met under any other circumstances. If Daria hadn't been placed in a situation in which she needed the information Jane had, would she have simply dismissed Jane as yet another person who "doesn't interest me" (read, someone who's going to make fun of me so I need to drive her away now before she learns anything about me)?

"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_

On 06 Sep 2001 07:52:18 GMT, [email] (BA) wrote:

If you're into Daria fanfic, check out "Jane on the Side" by The Alchemist, over at Outpost Daria (www.outpost-daria.com), for one possible answer. The story's premise is that a single day can make all the difference in the world, causing history to unfold in a very different way. In this instance, a delay of one day due to a flat tire during the move from Highland to Lawndale helps Daria avoid the self-esteem class, which has significant consequences.

Excellent book. I've been working forever on a Daria fanfic based on this story, but hope for its completion grows dimmer each day. :-(

When you stop and think about it, Jane is probably the most important friend Daria will have in her life. While she probably would have matured eventually, it might not have gone as it had without Jane.

This was the first King book I ever bought, during my mad Stephen King obsession of the terrible teens and it's one of his best. Although I still buy his work from time to time, he doesn't have the same pull for me he used to.

Jeff M.

On 06 Sep 2001 14:34:28 GMT, [email] (JMorris830) wrote:

According to the news wire at www.sci-fi.com, another miniseries based on it is in the works. I liked the 1979 version with David Soul and James Mason (even though it simplified many of the book's elements, mainly for time's sake) -- Reggie Nalder's portrayal of Barlow was simply terrifying -- but I'll still be curious to see how the remake turns out. With any luck, it won't be anywhere near as bad as the recent remake of "The Shining"... *shudder*

"JMorris830" wrote in message news:[email]...

other

of

Alchemist,

The

delay

helps

friend

eventually,

If you want a totally topsy-turvy "when Daria never met Jane" story I think you should read Mr Anonymous's "Kinesha's First Kwaanza" It's totally bizarre but a damn good read anyway.

http://ssw.net/ssw/fansub/fanfic/af/anonymous/kfk.htm

Firah

If, like most of us, you need an occasional break from CNN these days :-(, this is an excellent fanfic. It's long, but unlike most long fanfics, it doesn't scream for an editor wielding a hefty red marker. It rewrites the entire Daria series, in short vignettes, with one huge difference: Daria and Jane never hook up as best friends and barely get to know each other.

As you might imagine, their lives proceed a little differently than they did in the real series (that's the whole point! :-) ). But what's often more interesting is how much turns out the same - or nearly so.

And don't miss what happens to Quinn, Tom and Sandi.

M Man

----------------

"I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve ... "

Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto (following the attack on Pearl Harbor)

Ditto. Very, very good fic. Kudos to alchemist for this different approach to 'Daria'. Thanks.

-Steven Galloway

I thought it was a terribly sad story, and in a very quiet sort of way. No horrible bathos, just a demonstration of just how Daria and Jane have been so _good_ for each other.

MMan37x wrote in message ...

Alchemist,

The

and

I didn't know if I was going to like this or not...but what an awesome story!! Nice job! I'm going to have to check out more of these fanfics. Seems like that's going to be the only fresh "Daria" I'll have in the near future :(

Joe

Just watch.....fanfic quality can really be hit and miss beyond the writers that are recognized as being really good. I've read lots of fanfics from different fandoms and it's always the same-- the majority is horrible, but the gems really shine brightly.

jessica

Actually, the answer to that one is in "Psycho Therapy". Daria, in an effort to get the doctor to leave her alone, finally just blurts out her honest and very accurate assessment of everyone in her family, including herself. Quinn wears her superficiality like a suit of armor because she's afraid if she looks inside, she'll find that there's nothing there. Quinn knows that Daria's trying to embaress her the moment she overhears the two of them talking as they come up the stairs the first morning of filming. What she says to them later is pretty much a heartfelt plea to not be so harsh on her. Quinn admits that she knows she's shallow, but being popular is the only thing she's ever been good at. Daria's really smart and knows all these thing, and Jane's good at painting, but what is Quinn good at? Being popular is all she has. And so this is why what happened in "Is It Fall Yet?" and later in "Lucky Strike" are so important. David and Daria both help Quinn understand that there are other things she can be good at. And that's a huge boost to her self esteem, which in turn is part of the reason why she finally admits Daria is her sister (the other major reason being the way her and Daria's relationship has stedily improved since the start of the show).

In all seriousness, "The Esteemsters". The entire show has been about Daria maturing. Actually getting a friend for the first time in her life was the start.

Each season ender has been the next huge step: In "The Misery Chick", Jane goes from being just a friend to the person Daria trusts more than anyone else; In "Write Where It Hurts", Daria learns that her mother understands her more than she thought, and admits that, yes, she does want to be part of her family; in "Jane's Addition", Daria not only has to start learning that Jane is not her personal property and she will develop interests that Daria doesn't share, but that this does not mean that she is going to lose Jane as a friend because of it, plus Daria is finally forced to admit that the object of her youthful crush has a few very deep character flaws which make him unsuitable as a boyfriend; in "Dye! Dye! My Darling/Is It Fall Yet?", Daria has to deal with the worst crisis her friendship with Jane has ever had, bonds with Quinn, gets her first real boyfriend, and has to admit that she has trouble trusting people enough to open up around them; in "Boxing Daria", she has to confront the impact her antisocial behavior has had on the people she loves. And then there's the unspoken bit that the reason Daria always refused to interact with other people is because she was afraid they'd reject her for being smart and being interested in stuff kids -- including teenagers -- don't really care about. Now she knows that there are people -- like Jane and Tom -- who won't reject her for that, maybe she doesn't have to drive people away before they get so close and /might/ hurt her, because maybe they won't hurt her after all. Maybe Daria has finally figured out that she's no longer that 6 year old girl that all the other kids made fun of just because she talked about stuff they didn't -- couldn't -- understand; she's an intelligent young woman whose rather unusual interests are actually shared by other people her age with whom she can have fun with.

"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_

BA wrote:

Sounds like Quinn turned to popularity because she believed she had nothing to offer besides her looks, and would have nothing to offer -- which is why her summer tutoring sessions with David had a major impact on her self-esteem, as you said.

Maybe she * is * beginning to learn that she's no longer 6 years old, but an 18-year old on the verge of adulthood. So finding Jane and Tom might well have been the best things that ever happened to her. Even if it didn't seem at one time like finding Tom would prove to be such a good thing (I'm referring to DDMD for those who wonder what I mean). :)

Belle Book

"Boxing Daria" shows how Quinn got the way she is. To her 5 year old mind, she sees that what Daria does makes her parents unhappy, so little Quinn sets out to make them happy by being what Daria isn't. Daria doesn't like to talk to people and other people don't like to talk to her, so Quinn talks to people all the time and gets them to talk to her. You can probably see the side effect of this coming a mile away: Quinn is not stupid, but she's clearly not as smart as Daria is, and she knows it. Quinn is, however, really good at dealing with people. One of the things that is clear to young Quinn is that the reason no one likes talking to Daria is that Daria doesn't talk about the things other kids like to talk about. It's like talking to a miniature adult, and the other kids don't want to talk to an adult; They want to talk to a kid, about kid things. So young Quinn makes the effort to /not/ talk over the other kids. She talks about what they want to talk about, and, because Quinn's a bit more normal than Daria, these are often the things Quinn wants to talk about anyway (one of the biggest flaws in the way Daria judges her "peers" in the early episodes is that she ignores the fact that they are still kids, and are trying to enjoy the time before they have to start worrying about adult stuff; at the start of the show, Quinn is 14, for Pete's sake, and expecting her to act like she's 24 just because Daria can't grasp the idea that not everyone shares her rather limited definition of fun is silly). This effort to not be labeled as a "brain" (someone who only talks about things no one else finds fun, like homework or dull books) just reinforces Quinn's natural desire to be the best at what she does (something she gets from her mother). She knows she can't compete with Daria intellectually, so doesn't even try to. Eventurally, competing with Daria over anything doesn't even occur to her. Instead, it's competition with the Fashion Club (especially Sandi) that spurs her to try harder in school.

So Quinn focused on popularity to become that which Daria wasn't (and which Quinn thought her parents found displeasing). This meant ignoring accademics and focusing on her appearance and personality. Her naturally low self esteem (something she shares with Daria) led her to believe that appearance and personality were all she had to offer, and now she's starting to understand that that isn't so.

"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them, but more often they work in absolute darkness." Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_

BA said:

they

silly).

That's very true. Also notice that when she does make a friend, it's a normally rather sober girl (Jane's impulsive but not really wild) who is obsessed with art (which Daria can respect). Daria also respects Jodie, who _does_ act like an adult (in the good sense of the word) and probably has been doing so for a long time.

BA wrote:

I sure * can * see the side effect of Quinn's efforts to make her parents happy by focusing on gaining popularity as hard as she does.

Definitely true. Fortunately, Eichler realized sooner than Daria did that Quinn was less shallow than simply immature. I say that because Daria might not have realized Quinn was beginning to mature until "Is It Fall Yet?" while we saw the beginnings in either "Quinn the Brain" or "Monster".

Which brings about an enormous change in Quinn's self-esteem. She might never be as brainy as Daria, but she does learn she's not as stupid as she thought she was. And that's a good thing.

Yes, she is beginning to understand. And I'm glad about that.

Belle Book

BA said:

And furthermore, that if she drives them away anyway, it'll be _her_ fault that she'll be alone -- not the fault of other people. In other words, she's succeeded at making friends -- and now has to deal with the scary consequence of success -- actually dealing with the personalities of the people she's made friends with, instead of just mocking and avoiding them.

Ofnone siad:

Most sitcoms, you realize, wouldn't have had there _be_ anything under the facade.

Well, it's an extended "moment", but I'd say, in "Quinn, the Brain" everything from:

Jane: By the way, is anything eating away at your soul?

to:

Quinn: You win, okay?

I think that's about the best, tightest dialogue/scene/music integration I've seen anywhere on TV, any time.

Peace Kevin

My favorite moment, Daria is bitching about the state of the world as the fashion club drifts past. She says something about how in Afghanistan, you can be stoned for wearing the wrong clothes.

"Hear that, Stacey?" purrs Sandi.

-michael farris

Jordan S. Bassior wrote:

The only "sitcom" I've ever really seen is Daria, but I'll take your word for it. And perhaps that's one of the things I like most about Daria -- the fact that the show dares to show things under facades (Quinn's a prime example of it, but Daria's antisocial nature might be another example of it, although it might be better to call that a defense mechanism that Daria assumed to keep from being hurt, especially considering what we saw in "Boxing Daria").

Belle Book