I'm not Mike Quinn, but what the hell...

Spoiler Space . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Okay, those of you who've complaining that the episodes aren't Daria-centric enough should be satiated for a while by the nice, juicy bone they just threw you. :)

THE BEST:

Daria - I'm not as convinced as everyone else that Daria and Tom just made a love connection, although I see *definite* potential in that direction. For now I think that Daria's finally warmed up to Tom now that she's seen first-hand what a great guy he is. He's also probably the first friend she's ever found that's her intellectual equal (Jane's smart, but she never struck me as being quite on Daria's level) as well as sharing her cynical outlook.

I was glad to see her conscience come into play with Tad. Perhaps her willingness to blow off O'Neil's problem in the last episode was simply due to the fact that he was old enough that he should have known better; it would have been far worse had she abandoned a *real* child.

Tom - I'm impressed. He's definitely turning out to be a keeper, both as a new character and as a boyfriend (to whomever he ends up with). As I said above, though, I don't think Tom's suddenly crazy for Daria. I think he does like her and wants to get closer to her as a friend, for her good as well as for himself (she's been needing to unbend a little since long before he came on the scene). I think that last look was more of concern than anything else (for now).

That said though, I do see turbulence between Tom and Jane even without Daria getting in the way. That comment he made after the float crashed and burned about how Jane wouldn't be paying him any attention anyway suggests that there might be some rough spots in the relationship. Of course, that's true in *any* relationship, but it remains to be seen how serious it is. Daria may not have to get involved to ruin their relationship; it's entirely possible that there won't be anything between them until he and Jane break up on their own anyway.

Also, if he *does* end up with Daria, he'll be a hell of a lot healthier for her than Trent could ever have been. I do wonder what everybody's favorite narcoleptic's reaction to a Tom/Daria relationship would be... I'm still not sure exactly what he really feels about her.

THE REST:

Jane - Mostly superfluous in this episode except as motivation for Tom and Daria to be in certain places at certain times. Although compared to Tom's reaction, I was a little surprised at how unconcerned she seemed about Daria's misadventure with the paint. Then again, perhaps I shouldn't be; she's usually willing to have fun at Daria's expense, especially where Trent is concerned. Maybe it just stands out a little more next to Tom's offer of his jacket.

Fashion Club - These girls have long since become my least-favorite part of the show, even including some of Helen's less-than-successful attempts at parenting. While some of their individual antics can be amusing (like Tiffany's attempts at counciling in IHON), watching and listening to them go at it together is almost painful. Is it possible to be verbally lobotomized? Because that's about what it feels like. It was vaguely satisfying to see them all get their dust-based makovers at the end, but the only part that was really funny was Stacy's unwitting comparison of looking at the Fashion Club too long to looking at the sun - "it kinda hurts."

I couldn't agree more, girlfriend.

Jodie and Mack - It seems that Mack shares some of Jodie's frustrations, even if he's not under as much pressure as she is. We didn't really learn anything here, and I didn't really find anything funny, but it was touching to see Jodie's willingness to put up with a lot of crap for those who look up to her and Mack's willing to do the same for *her.* At the same time though it's also sort of a shame; Jodie *needs* to take more of a "screw-the-world" attitude, and blowing off the rest of the parade would have been a great start. She proved to be a sort of polar opposite to Daria here... Daria's conscience got ahold of her at the best possible time; Jodie's took over at the worst.

Kevin and Brittany - More stuff from the "Kevin and Brittany breaking up" department, and not nearly as funny as in ATGIL or TFW. The only near-chuckle I got was from the other cheerleaders mindlessly pantomiming Brittany's movements even after she went from cheering to ranting. At least it didn't take nearly as long this time.

The only thing I really got out of this was that Brittany's attitude about Kevin and other girls seems, in retrospect, to be fully justified. Has that idiot (Kevin, not Brittany) been taking lessons from Upchuck?

Upchuck - Speaking of whom, I think his final scene in this episode pretty much answers the question of whether or not Upchuck is a brain. The answer is clearly "no." Even if he was before, the brain in question is doubtless now splattered all over the pavement (okay, okay, so my optimism's showing again). Was that "fiesty" enough for you, Chucky-boy?

O'Neil - He wasn't really important in this ep (except that he gave Tom a chance to do right by Daria), but it was something of a surprise to see O'Neil in the suit. Based on the obnoxious, aggresive attitude, he was literally the *last* person I would have guessed it to be.

Jake - What can I say? In classic form tonight, even if we never actually *see* him. He should give Daria the twenty bucks anyway; she's definitely earned it, even if she didn't do right by *him.*

OTHER STUFF

Spot the one-shot! It seems the writers have gone "Where's Waldo" on us... while I didn't notice Dr. Shar like someone else said they did, I did see rock'n'roll Randy a couple of times by Drugs'n'Stuff. And it was nice to see Ted DeWitt-Clinton and the Guptys again (even if the kids relapsed into PC-zombie mode).

FINAL ANALYSIS:

Great character episode for Daria, and we get to know Tom better. While I didn't find this episode nearly as laugh-out-loud funny as TFW, it was a lot more satisfying than a lot of the season 3 (and earlier season 4) stuff. If the writers can keep cranking out more episodes like these last two and follow up on some of these scenes (Kevin and Brittany, Jodie and Mack, and Upchuck) instead of just putting everything back to normal at the end of each episode I'll start watching religiously again.

-IdentityCrisis

idcrisis said:

Jane's intelligence is more spatial, Daria's more verbal. Jane is also actually more of a natural conformist than Daria; she's just been raised very strangely.

Note that she didn't, in fact, wind up blowing off O'Neil, she actually helped him. Well ... Daria would probably like Mr. O'Neil a whole lot better if he wasn't so weak and whiny.

Quite possibly. Jane is a classically self-centered artistic type. She's also had very little experience dealing with people.

Extremely likely, in fact. Daria has a very strong conscience, and truly loves Jane. I don't think she'd be capable of deliberately wrecking the love between Jane and Tom.

Quite possibly.

I think it'll wake him up.

Admiration. Respect. Possibly love.

Actually, Jake's bowel movements, inability to seek a substitute for toilet tissue, and willingness to bribe Daria were her initial motivation to be at the parade.

It's only paint, not acid.

If Jane caught even a fraction of the way Tom was reacting to Daria, it would not be surprising if she was in a slightly nasty humor towards Daria. But I actually think Jane was oblivious to most of it.

I liked Tiffany's explanation for why you shouldn't stare at the sun "You get wrinkles."

I don't know, I thought there was some character development here. Quinn was the only one who comprehended that Tad was actually making a moral argument. Sandy was picking on Stacy even more than usual. I think there's going to be a rupture in the FC's future.

Consider that whether or not Mack really has much in the way of romantic feelings for Jodie, he's definitely her best friend. And he's easily smart enough to realize the utter phoniness of a lot of what he has to do to show that he's a "success", and to resent it. Which is why both of them admire Daria.

It's not as "funny" because I think they're really heading for a breakup. Kevin was riding high on being popular; when you consider that he's only going to be in high school for another six or so months (Lawndale time), and that he's an idiot even by jock standards (which may prevent him from playing for college teams; they're more serious about academic requirements in college); he may be headed for a major fall.

That was good :)

Nah ... Kevin's just impulsive and thoughtless. Not really a bad guy ... he just does whatever feels good, at the moment, without considering the consequences. Remember his earlier shoplifting?

Kevin was being put in a high-status position (standing on the float), had a pretty girl standing next to him, and felt that this meant that he could take liberties. He didn't bother to think about the significance of Brittany being right behind him (the girl did, though, notice?) That's Kevin's basic problem in life ... *he doesn't THINK*.

Nah, the lady cops just probably dragged him away and he cooled his heels in a jail cell for a few hours till Charles Ruttheimer Jr. bailed Charles Ruttheimer III out and refused to listen to his complaints because he knows his son is a weenie.

O'Neil was venting the emotions he doesn't dare to vent without a mask on. O'Neil in the lion costume was kind of ... surreal.

I think that was a hideous example of "learned helplessness" there. Surely there must have been paper towels, kleenexes, or *something*, in their house?

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

And then he'll likely roll over and go back to sleep.:)

Surreal, maybe, though it sort of made sense. (I was treating it as a proper mystery, as I kept crossing suspects off the list as they showed up until I was down to it being some extra like a bench-warmer from the football team. That it was even a member of the faculty never occured to me.)

Since he obviously wasn't expecting to suffocate and need to remove the head in public, he might have just been acting out the emotions that he, for some reason, leaves buried. If he let them infuse his normal personality instead of saving them all up for one obnoxious explosion, he'd be far better off.

Actually, when he said that the magazine was only 68 (?) pages, my first thought was "he needed THAT much paper?"

Len

On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 14:44:03 GMT, I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len Pitre) wrote:

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who thought that. MSB

---- They couldn't conquer the world. Now they're out to corrupt our kids! Dirty Drawings from Deutschland...Next on

You may have a point, but she does get worse grades than Daria (except in art class, obviously).

Here you definitely have a point. But then, Tom's more outgoing as well.

As I pointed out in another post, she wasn't *going* to help him until Jane pointed out that she could get something out of it. Her helping Tad was an act of self-sacrafice and was rather noble of her, but her helping O'Neil was completely mercenary.

...For all of five seconds. ;7

Maybe. But after their talk in "Jane's Addition" I get the impression that neither of them sees that much potential there any more.

True, but she could still be a *little* less quick to enjoy seeing Daria humiliated. The only time I recall Jane really helping Daria out of such a mess on her own initiative was in IHON, and then only after Daria blew up at *her.* I really do like Jane and I know she cares about her friend, but it seems that Jane has never really *needed* Daria as much as Daria needed Jane, even before Tom came into the picture. And fairly often, it shows.

I'm still not convinced that he was acting innapropriately for someone else's boyfriend. He's a nice enough guy; it's possible that he's just being platonically friendly at this point.

At least she didn't say "it makes you look faaaaaat..." ;7

She's made what seemed to be impressive progress before (she damn near had my jaw on the floor in Jake of Hearts), only to completely relapse by episode's end. It's whether anything long-term comes of it that counts.

Gods, we can only hope. How many seasons can Quinn and Sandi go on sniping each other or Stacy be the whipping girl before somebody cracks?

If they do split up or shift the balance of power, I hope Quinn doesn't forget about Stacy. She's probably the closest thing to a true friend Quinn has (even if she borders on obsessive about it), and she deserves better treatment than she's been getting. She reminds me of Brittany in alot of ways.

Agreed. I'd like to see more of them; Jodie's proven an interesting character in her own right (and perhaps Daria's only intellectual equal at school), but we hardly ever get to see her in action. And I believe we've seen less of Mack than any other major character. Take some damned screen time away from Upchuck and give it to these two!

Hmm... I see your logic. But it still justifies Brittany's attitude.

And no, I don't recall the shoplifting. Which episode was that in?

Maybe. But it would still be nice if he came to class next episode with bruises and a broken bone or two. It *MIGHT* teach him a lesson... But I won't hold my breath. After all, the tender loving care Sandi applied to his genetalia with her knee in Fair Enough didn't leave a lasting impression either.

My guess is that Daria thought of that, but didn't say anything in order to squeeze some cash out of him.

-IdentityCrisis

[email] wrote:

(Spoilers if you're WAAAY back on your episode watching.)

"Malled", I believe it was called. As an economic class kind of thing, students were taken to the mall and had to study something about the way a mall works. Brittany and her knight in shoulder pads got to study shoplifting, so he decided to try it for himself on some cute trinket Brittany liked. When she found out about, she dragged him back to the store to return it.:)

Len

idcrisis said:

Tad's a kid; O'Neil's an adult.

Mostly because *neither* of them think that Trent can live up to what Daria needs in a man. But Trent is not necessarily caught in his rut forever.

I don't know about that. Daria needs Jane more short-term, but I think Jane needs Daria more long-term. Daria is inherently stronger and more true to herself; Jane needs external approval more than Daria does.

It's hard to say. We'll need to see in future episodes. He looked sad though ... and Daria's expression was almost heartbroken.

I think Quinn is learning, slowly, but still learning. She's trapped by her desire to be "popular", though.

I wouldn't want to be her. She hangs out with the Fashion Club, but none of them are really her friends, except maybe Stacy, and Stacy's attitude towards her is *not* healthy. She dates a lot, but she doesn't really like anyone she dates: it's fairly obvious that she's repulsed even by kissing these guys, precisely because there's absolutely no feelings for them on her part.

I'd especially like to see more of Mack because I think (especially in the first couple of seasons) every extensively characterized male was a real a**hole. Mack is truly admirable; he deserves more exposure.

I think it was in "Malled".

Upchuck's determination would be admirable in a better cause.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Jordan S. Bassior wrote:

Why'd you cut the spoiler space?
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Which was exactly my original point; I think she feels colder towards O'Neil because he's old enough to know better. She doesn't hate him, but she doubtless gets enough of that from her father (as this episode illustrates nicely); why should she feel the need to babysit her teachers as well? At least Tad has an *excuse* for not being able to handle himself.

True. But he may not get out of said rut in time to salvage his chances with Daria, if he's even really interested that way. I *do* hope he snaps out of it... He may not be right for Daria, but he's not a bad guy. He deserves *something* out of life... If only he'd get up and reach for it.

I hadn't considered that; I think you're right. Jane does seem to be moving down the right path, though, slowly but surely... Her choice in TFW shows that.

It's hard to guess what she's feeling at this point (for me, at least).

Agreed on all of the above. The sooner she admits that the fashion nazis and the sycophant swarm aren't good for her (*please,* let it be coming), the better. I think it's going to be how she treats Stacy afterwards that will be the true test of character for her, though...

That may be exactly *why* he doesn't get more exposure; the action revolves around mocking people's and society's flaws, and Mack has so far proven to be too intelligent, decent and otherwise non-defective to be a viable target. And as Daria and Jane already have the "mocking" part of the equation well in hand... <shrug>

-IdentityCrisis

In article , [email] wrote:

someone

he's just

Maybe... but then, what's up with Tom and his "Thanks for getting lost in the moment with me" remark? That's not something I would be very likely to say to someone with whom I was just trying to be "platonically friendly." Daria seemed a bit taken aback by it. Plus how nice is it for her to talk to a guy who actually can talk to her on the same level? Case in point, the Pol Pot remark. I think he actually got a smile out of her for that, and I can understand why.

Personally I think Tom might've been a little out of line. You don't try TOO hard to make your girlfriend's best friend like you, that can lead to trouble. Well, we'll see. At the very least, those two would make really good friends, I'd think.

MPierry wrote in message news:[email]...

Grrrhhhhh.

Please have the consideration and courtesy to use spoiler warnings, spoiler space, or both.

Thank you.

In case you're unfamiliar with these concepts, here's some information for you:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: ! New here? Reading this could save you embarrassment...
Date: 07 April 2000 10:02

Who's this for? What's in it?
-----------------------------

If you're a regular reader of alt.tv.daria, you need read no further! This is a new version of the reminder about spoilers for people new here. You might choose to filter (killfile) the above subject header so you won't see it again. Thanks to all the regulars for your courtesy in using spoilers with such consideration.

If you're new here, welcome! 8-)

If you're familiar with "spoilers" then all you need to know is that atd is an international community, and some atd readers don't yet know when they'll get to see episodes in Series Four of Daria - the series now premiering in the USA. You might choose to read on to see how you can make sure that the warning in your subject line will be picked up by other fans' killfiles. Thanks for your consideration!

You'll also find here the location of the Daria FAQ (thanks to Jessica for suggesting a reference to the FAQ).

Is all this gobbledegook to you? Read on...

Spoiling other people's enjoyment
---------------------------------

Please read through this posting before posting to this group any message that refers to an episode from Series Four of Daria. This is the series presently being premiered in the USA. Fans in other countries don't yet know when they'll get a chance to see Series Four.

Because we want everyone to enjoy the new series, the regulars here have chosen to adopt a procedure to follow if we are posting a message that gives away details that might spoil someone's enjoyment of an episode. We invite you to join us in following this policy, to avoid the embarrassment of discovering that *you* have spoiled another fan's future enjoyment of Daria. <gulp>

There are two ways of protecting people from inadvertently stumbling upon information that spoils their future enjoyment of an episode: header warnings, and spoiler space.

Header warnings
---------------

If your subject header contains a warning in one of these formats:
    (Series 4 Spoiler)
    (s4 Spoiler)
OR contains the episode number in the #4NN format, for example:
    #401 (if you don't know the episode number, you can use #4??)
then fans who set their filters (killfiles) accordingly won't even get to
see your message. Nifty, no?

Some fans might find it useful if you also include the episode title in the header.

Some readers of atd choose not to use filters, and some use a newsreader that doesn't offer that facility. What about those fans? If they're just hitting the key to move to the next unread message, they may not see the header at all until it's too late and the full message is there in front of them. That's where spoiler space comes in.

Spoiler space
-------------

If the word "Spoiler!" and forty lines of space precedes anything within your post that may spoil someone's enjoyment of an episode, other fans can choose to skip that message and go on to another without even seeing the *content* of your message: they'll just have seen the space. Ah, so clever!

What if your post contains general discussion as well as material that may spoil an episode? In a case like this, you needn't include a warning in the subject header as long as in the post itself the general discussion comes first, followed by a warning (such as "Spoiler: #401") and forty lines of spoiler space before the you get onto the stuff that may spoil an episode for someone. Then they can read the general stuff and skip to another message once they hit the spoiler space.

What if the thread ceases to be a spoiler?
------------------------------------------

If the thread's mutated in such a way that nothing in it could possibly spoil anyone's enjoyment of an episode, then of course you can remove the spoiler warning and the spoiler space if you want to open up the discussion to those people who are avoiding spoilers.

Want to comment on this document? And thanks!
---------------------------------------------

If you would like to start a discussion about the contents of this posting, please don't reply to it, but instead start a new thread with the subject "Spoiler policy." That's because some people may filter out the subject header of this regular posting, so that having read it once they need never see it again: if you replied to this thread, they wouldn't see your message.

Thank you for your co-operation; your fellow fans appreciate it.

Frequently asked questions
--------------------------

One of the most common gaffes on usenet is that people ask a question that's been asked again and again. "Read the [expletive deleted] FAQ!" is the usual response - though here in atd, we're more tolerant than most other ngs! The FAQ - list of Frequently Asked Questions and their answers - for Daria is maintained by Chris Majors, and is located at URL: http://www.gisol.net/daria

Acknowledgements
----------------

My thanks to those who suggested using spoiler protection, originally to help non-US fans when Series Three was debuting in the US; to those whose ideas aired in discussion were incorporated in the above; to rich for organising a vote on spoiler policy and inviting proposals; and to those who took part in the vote; to Jessica for her suggestions to include the URL for the FAQ and to mention removing protection on mutated threads, and to Chris for setting up the FAQ and keeping it up to date. And to you for your co-operation in applying the spoiler policy, protecting the future enjoyment of those who hope *someday* to see series four of Daria.

Who's responsible for this awful document?
------------------------------------------

This document is my adaptation of the policy that atd fans voted on and adopted when Series Three was debuting in the USA. Any errors and omissions are my own. If you want to inspect the original document, you can find it at URL: http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=448064347

Don't get the wrong idea
------------------------

NB The fact that I'm posting this must not delude you, welcome newcomer, into thinking that I have any special status in this ng: I don't. I just took on the task of posting at intervals a message similar to this, while Series Three was being aired for the first time, and now I'm continuing this task for Series Four. And I'm not a Daria expert, just a fan: hang around and you'll find out who the experts are, and you'll discover with delight, as I did, how patient and helpful they are!

Martin Sylvester

Thanks, but I'm well aware of spoiler space procedures already, which makes it all the more embarrassing. Quite simply, I goofed big time. Sorry about that!

MPierry wrote in message news:[email]...

Thanks for your gracious apology. We all goof sometime! 8-)

Martin.

MPierry said:

It may have just slipped out. He may have been feeling more than he'd expected for Daria, and not thought about all the implications before he spoke. God knows I've done that often enough ;-)

I think it's an incredible relief. Remember when she tried to talk to Trent on a couple of occasions and when she got intellectual she totally lost him?

Before this, though, Daria was being hostile to him. It's not surprising that he would try extra-hard to make friends with her. It's also not unreasonable that the results surprised them both.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

On 11 Apr 2000 18:54:37 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

The whole show is based around making witty, sarcastic comments about life, so I don't know how you guys can miss it. The simplest explanation is the best, in this case. It was a funny line.

This line of thinking doesn't really support "Daria wants Tom" any more than "Daria is finding friendship with Tom"

I've been there, anytime a significant other and best friend aren't too friendly, it's a bad thing.

Kyle, he who means well The Shane Andrews of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs

In article ,

breaking

a breakup. Kevin

only going to be

and that he's an

playing for college

college); he may be

cheering to

attitude

lessons

bad guy ... he

considering the

float), had a

he could take

Brittany being

basic problem

I kind of wonder why the Lawndale students didn't elect Brittany as the football sweetheart. Everyone KNOWS they're going out. Almost every other high school in the world would vote for Brittany just because "Awww...wouldn't it be sweet for a boyfriend and girlfriend to be on the float together?" Hmmmmmm....

-----> Violator's Toad <-----

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Perhaps there are more Darias (speaking figuratively, of course) at Lawndale High than we're led to believe.

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"Fetch Daddy's hard, plastic eyes, so that he can see the TV" --Carl, of Carl & Sons.

N.P.:nothing