My latest Fanwork, something which every good Daria site needs.

X-mas is a time of peace and goodwill�

So I enrich the internet with another violent webpage: Oh goody! It is my personal "TOM SLOANE HATE SITE".

http://www.geocities.com/ace_trax/Fanwork/HateTomeSloane.html

Happy X-mas everbody!

In article , [email] says...

All I can say is...wow!

You're hatred of young Thomas is so blind, so pure, that my dislike of the character pales in comparison.

I concede defeat.

In regards to your "holiday jingle" I'm kind of reminded of an old song by the group Fear:

Hatred is purity Weakness is disease.

Is that what you're saying about Dariadom's ambiguous feelings about Tom?

You should do a search on Google and read the old "Tom has Mullet" thread to see how people really felt about this subject.

Yeah the thread was started by a troll, but the feelings were very real and pretty divided. Crazy Nutso's old Message Board was, and still is, "Poochie" central.

And even though I wasn't in the fandom when DDMD originally aired, I bet the PPMB was probably in flames around that time. Too bad those message boards don't archive their stuff.

Oh well, God Bless Usenet.

<SPOILERS>
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In case you didn't know, Daria handed Tom his walking papers in IICY.

I'll admit even I was floored when it happened...at first. Then, after the shock wore off, I "Snoopy danced" all over the living room, out the back door, and around the satellite dish.

After the breakup, the whole "Death to Tom Sloane" thing became a moot point. (Okay I'll admit I did post some pretty good digs afterward - I caught hell after DDMD and up through IICY because I wouldn't get in lock step behind the whole "Tom thing". So a few "nyahs" were in order.)

In the end, Daria chose a brand new future, and Jane's friendship, over a high school romance.

And for that I am very thankful.

Without Jane, Daria would become another sullen, angsty young woman with crippled social skills. She would also had a very bleak future if she thought she could remake the world into something worthy of her ideals if all she had to offer was snarky comments and indifference.

Jane will ease her into understanding the world a lot better than Tom Sloane ever will. Daria would always be a beat behind Tom because he has a pretty good idea how the world really works.

And, of course, Daria would always resent him for that, regardless.

<Oh boy, does Tom know how the world *really* works. The scion of wealth and privilege would have gained this knowledge earlier than most people. And I know he resents the hell out of it...well most of the time anyway. I'm sure that explains his "quasi-rebelliousness" and why he has removed himself from others of his "social station".>

Learning life *with* Jane will be much better for Daria than always being *guided* by the all-knowing Thomas Sloane.

I will agree with your line that "It is just so absolutely typical for Daria Morgendorffer, to fall in Love with someone her fans truly hate."

I think the blame can be squarely placed on the series creator, Glenn.

After all he gave Daria the dream of every teenage girl: a smart, cute, rich, understanding boyfriend. A young man who saw one relationship sinking and moved on to another one, regardless if it was going to be with his soon to be ex-girlfriend's best friend. (As I said earlier Tom really does know how the world works) This was something that was the antithesis of everything Daria represented.

And you know what's really mind-blowing? DDMD was the episode that finally got me watching "Daria".

The ep that divided a fandom, forever.

Firah

I HAVE SNIP A LOT.

Firah wrote in message news:...

Yes and No. The Song "Taxi Drivers must Die" is one of my favriotes of GTA2. Suddently I had the enlightment, that the songtext was very representive to a lot of things the people hate, but actually couldn't fight back. Like Tom Sloane.

No. I know what happened in season4, IIFY, season5 and IICY: With Daria, Jane, Tom and the whole "becoming human process".

I don't mind Daria stealing Tom from Jane. The problem was, it went so fast because the "evil" MTV writers wanted a cliff-hanger in the end of season 4.

And I don't mind Daria becoming more human. The problem was, as you said, that Tom Sloane was so sickeningly patronizing in that process.

Yes, you are right. The concept of the Daria-antithesis is very interesting, but the MTV-writers have screwed up that concept. Well, why not? It is their babies.

Yes, and DDMD was that episode, which finally got ME into writting Daria-fanfiction.

[email] (Ace Trax) wrote in message news:...

Becoming "human" to me is something of an excuse to cover your hinny in case you screw up in life, particularly when you *know* it's wrong. Example: Taking cocaine is wrong, and I know it. Yet, if I take it anyway, and do something stupid to myself or someone else, can I simply say that I'm "human"? Sure, I suppose I could, while in jail...

Daria *knew* she was wrong in starting to have feelings for Tom, and in not being honest with Jane when Jane gave her the chance. Remember, this is *Jane*. Jane.A suddenly-quiet and very guilty-feeling Daria at that point could've spoken volumes, too. To me, had Daria done so in either case, even an angry Jane couldn't have accused her of going "behind her back" with Tom (like what Daria did in kissing Tom back), since Jane would've already known. The only part about "not meaning to" that I'll ever accept with Daria and Tom is the budding feelings, NOT the kissing scene. They *meant* to kiss each other, screw Jane.

Sorry, but I do. In fact, I blamed Daria *equally* with Tom. It takes two to tango, you know. I also looked at Daria differently as a character from that point on until she and Tom parted ways, and even then she wasn't quite the same. Hmmm- maybe that's what Eichler actually meant to do...?

True, but I wish they didn't cop out for the cliched method, "Dawson's Creek" style...

See above.

Now, *that* part I agree with, somewhat, though to me at times in Season Five, Daria seemed to come off as a whiny you-know-what, and *no*, I'm *not* a Tom-hater, just neutral.

Heh.

Heh. Again.

Hmmmm. Wonder if that applies to Darren and Jane...?

See above.

True, unfortunately...thanks.

-Steven Galloway

I still think it's possible that Daria didn't *know* she had feelings for Tom. In fact, she may never have had the feelings Jane accused her of.

Let's think about it. Daria has some nice adventures with Tom in ILAP and looks regretful when he and Jane leave. Eps. 7-11, Daria expresses *no* interest in Tom. Not "How's Tom doing?" or "Hey, why doesn't Tom join us? He's not so bad afterall." We do learn in "Fire!" that Daria called up Tom and told him about a movie, but all that says is that Daria thinks of him as a friend, nothing more.

It's Jane and Trent who keep telling Daria that she has feelings for Tom, that something is going on between them. Daria keeps denying it, but is it because she is in a river in Egypt, or because she doesn't see her feelings as being what Jane and Trent say they are? It's entirely possible that Jane and Trent are projecting their *own* attitudes toward relationships. We've already seen in "Jane's Addition" how quickly Jane can go from acquaintance to one part of a couple. So for Jane, wanting to be Tom's girlfriend after one friendly outing would make sense. For Daria, it wouldn't.

Then there's the kiss. The first time, Tom kisses Daria. Daria does the "Dammit!", then Tom says "I liked it, too." But really, that kiss was so fast, who's to say Daria even had time to like it? She goes back in for more -- because she really *does* like Tom, or because she wants to really feel what it's like to be kissed this time? What Daria does here is wrong and betrayal, but it still isn't certified proof that she's had deeply-buried feelings for Tom.

Also remember that Daria can be very open to persuasion, especially when coming from someone close to her. She can mow down those who can't fight back, like Brittany and Kevin, but when faced with someone who offers intelligent, but flawed, logic, she crumbles. Examples: going against her principles in "Partner's Complaint" after Jodie chews her out. Giving in the Helen's logic that "people should believe whatever they want as long as it makes them happy" in "Groped By an Angel." Therefore, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that Daria might not have had feelings for Tom, but let Jane and Trent persuade her into thinking she did.

That brings us to "Is It Fall Yet?" and Season Five Daria. Daria in IIFY? dates Tom and seems to be uncomfortable with it. Tom assumes that she is afraid of letting down her walls in the relationship, but maybe what really bothers Daria is that she wasn't ready to be in a relationship in the first place. Her best friend was super pissed-off with her after the kiss, and told her she should start dating. Here is Tom, ready, willing, and able. Someone who doesn't hate her. Someone who can take Jane's place. So Daria goes out with him, tries to get used to it, but never really seems to (although the kissing ain't bad...).

This discomfort spills over into Season Five, causing Daria to act like possibly the worst girlfriend ever, either shutting Tom out or chewing him out. In the end, she and Tom are so distant, it's almost funny. I don't recall one moment in "Is It College Yet?" where they touched.

Bottom line: Daria was a bad girlfriend because she wasn't ready to be a girlfriend because she never wanted to be one. And deep down, she knew it.

In article , [email] says...

Riiight. Not even Trent fell for that excuse. When it came to ignoring Tom's feelings for her, and hers for him, Daria decided to make like Cleopatra and sail down that ancient Egyptian river.

As for Trent, see above.

As for Jane, I think the whole "jealous bitch" rages had more to do with ego than anything else. From anyone outside Jane and Tom's relationship it seemed that the two were just not getting along. However for Jane it had to be Daria's fault. I mean, Tom just couldn't leave *her* for Daria? I mean plain, quiet, antisocial, Daria? Daria had to be doing *something* to make Tom look her way. Maybe Daria was flipping her pleated skirt and showing her thong underwear when Jane wasn't looking. Maybe they *were* creeping around Degas Street together when Jane was in her room putting together her next masterpiece.

In Jane's paranoid mind it had to be the only explanation for Tom chasing after Daria. It just couldn't be because Tom found Daria more interesting or *attractive* than Jane?

Ah Jane, thy name is vanity. And girl, I do understand....

I do agree that Daria got caught up in the giddy high of someone of the opposite sex actually being attracted to her both physically and mentally.

After all she's still a teenager.

And that is what caused her deep guilt in both Fire! and DDMD. Of course that guilt did not stop "the kiss" but it did have repercussions that carried over in to IIFY? and Season Five.

Firah

Doesn't the fact that *Trent* caught onto it raise suspicion? Trent thinks that his band is actually going somewhere and that hot water is a suitable beverage to offer a houseguest. He can't even get through his head that Monique isn't right for him, even though they've broken up several times.

When it came to ignoring

Ignoring his for her, possibly. I won't deny that on Tom's end, the attraction was very real. However that doesn't mean it would apply equally for Daria. Liking a guy doesn't always mean wanting to jump into his pants.

As I said, there were no dreams, no references, no private thoughts, nothing. Even Daria's ne'er realized crush on Trent got more consideration.

Definitely. It could also be because Jane had more history with Daria and knew she could hurt her more effectively than Tom. If she confronted Tom, she would have to face some painful truths, that he was rejecting her for whatever reason. It was easier to put blame on something Daria was supposedly doing, on vibes Daria may or may not have been giving off, than face the simple fact that Tom just was more drawn to her.

Well don't forget, Jane talked about her all the time. Plus, I'm sure Daria hung out with them on several occassions, and when Jane was being "difficult," Tom may have found her to be the droll, level-headed alternative. She is also more of his intellectual equal (another development I didn't like in Season 4: although Jane has never been as intellectual as Daria, she was definitely enough of an intellect *prior* to S4 to like foreign artsy films).

I've been in Daria's situation in RL. Sometimes it doesn't take much than a friendly smile for a guy to hook onto you and think that you feel the same way about him. I've also been in the position where I feel conflicted, like maybe I should just give this guy a chance and date him because, hey, he's nice and how often do the nice ones come along? That doesn't mean that I encouraged him to pursue me in the first place, or that I most definitely had designs on this person from the beginning. And consequently, many times I've left the potiential relationship to die on the vine.

In article , [email] says...

I know that Trent isn't the sharpest guitar pick in the guitar bag. However a pet doesn't have to have much intelligence to understand peoples feelings either. Especially people they have known for awhile.

A man just barging their way into Daria's affections?

No way!

Any man that tried that before was shot down in flames. From Bobby Bighead's friend in "The Invitation" through the Rutthiemer twins in "Daria Dance Party and all the way up to Mr. Sloane himself.

If you're male, the only way you're getting under Daria's romantic radar is if she also likes you in the same way.

And even then it's whole lotta work!

I think Jane was being just being sarcastic because of Tom's "cinema" remark. It wasn't because she *suddenly* no longer liked art films. We all remember the episode "Monster" don't we?

That happens to people of both sexes. Some people end up being married with children before they figure that out.

But I really don't think that this is what happened to Daria.

I wish we could have seen the budding courtship of Daria and Tom between DDMD and IIFY? just so we can settle this once and for all.

Firah

Though as far as we know, Trent has never caught on to Daria's crush on him, even though that was way less subtle.

Yeah, but Bobby Bighead revealed his assholeness within three seconds of their meeting. His come-on was about as sincere as Tommy Sherman's "You, maybe -- three hours into a kegger" to Jane.

Brad and Brett were being friendly, not necessarily romantic. They were also just making conversation; Jane and Daria must not have been too stuck on them if they let something petty like the Ruttheimer lineage influence them so strongly.

You and I, maybe. But Glenn seemed to have forgotten that Quinn worked in IHON when he had her say that the hostess job in IICY? was her "first". The writers also forgot little things, like the name of the county and the layout of the town, throughout the course of the series.

It's one of the problems of Season 4 Jane, who was yanked out of character and her quirks exaggerated to a major degree to make her seem like a hot-headed, unstable, easily jealous girlfriend where few of those qualities existed before. It would have been fine had it led to some major character exploration for Jane, but instead it was forgotten, and now seems like something meant exclusively to service the story arc.

Daria, in Season 4, was probably at her weakest and most vulnerable to people's persuasion. In other episodes, she practically echoed back what they most wanted to hear -- "Partner's Complaint," "Groped By an Angel," "Of Human Bonding," "Psycho Therapy," etc. Season 4 was the "Defer to Others' Opinions" season. Is it such a surprise that she would then take it one step too far with Tom?

Here, here.

In article , [email] says...

Oh Trent caught on to the crush real early. His almost cruel manipulation of Daria's feelings in "Pierced" made that more than obvious.

It was almost as if Daria was some groupie he could cajole into getting her belly-button pierced.

Aside from Trent's dumb-and-dumber performances in "Camp Fear" and "Art Burn" I think Trent is playing the cluelessness angle to his advantage. A way of not dealing with the world, not unlike Jake Morgendorffer.

Pretend you're too preoccupied with your own fantasy (the band) or nightmare (can't shake the ol' Mad Dog Morgendorffer blues) and let others run the world because I'm too afraid or lazy to deal with it.

<SNIPPAGE>

Although that is a very good hypothesis, I still can't get behind Daria's apathy as the entire issue.

Usually Daria's encounter with males, on a personal level, were almost Barchesque. Except Daria was keeping them at bay for the same reason she keeps everyone at bay, she didn't want to be hurt, After all, for whatever reason, people will *always* let you down at some point.

It's the human condition. Unfortunately Daria is still figuring that out. She got a brief taste of it when she chose Tom over Jane's friendship.

In this case, Daria let herself down, which really hurt like hell. But it didn't stop her from making her choice. She knew this would break Jane's heart (Daria and Helen's talk in DDMD) but she probably thought to herself, "Well my best friend is mad at me and will probably not be speaking to me for awhile. Tom is ringing my phone and I really can't go back to being alone again (If you think Daria can go back to her solitary existence see her over-the-top psycho performance in "See Jane Run"). Tom and I really do get along and besides Jane and I will iron out our differences later."

Daria took a page from the "Gospel of Quinn", I'll have my cake and eat it too (your man, our friendship), and she did.

Firah

Firah wrote in message news:...

The problem with *all* of this, from Trent's supposed clueless to Daria's supposed secret lust for Tom is that the clues are so vague, they could be anything. How about some fill-in episodes, Glenn?

That could be. It would make sense for Daria to be attracted for someone like her Dad.

<SNIP>

brief taste of it when she chose Tom over Jane's friendship.

That's sort of what I was getting at (see my latest post to Steven). Daria may have expressed interest in Tom and gone out with him voluntarily, but it wasn't so much because of how she felt before The Kiss as how she felt after. She may have liked Tom before, which, as you note, is huge in and of itself because of her hostile reaction to other guys, but because this wasn't a feeling she was used to, Jane, Trent, and Tom might have convinced her it was more. However, it wasn't until Daria was faced with a best friend not speaking to her that she decided to go out with Tom.

It really brings out the family resemblance. ; >

[email] (Kara Wild) wrote in message news:...

See Firah's post above.

Actually, I think that was what *Daria* told Quinn, and Helen turned it on her when Daria vehemently denied that she was helping Quinn when Daria was confronted by Helen, but I understand your point. ;D

Therefore, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that Daria

Hmm--I dunno, Kara. Certainly, Jane and Trent can have a great influence on Daria when she asks them something like even Jodie and yes Brittany (see "TALD"), but *this*...? Hmmm again...

And if that's the case, then I think she'll *never* be in a relationship, because to actually be in one, a person *has* to let the walls down, right? I think she was the way she was because of that guilt she had in the back of her mind over how she and Tom came together in the first place, that and her so-called "crippling" antisocial tendencies she had all of her life that kept her from being more open with Tom...

Sigh--I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, Kara. Thanks.

-Steven Galloway

Saw it. Responded.

After Helen basically needled her the entire episode. "What's wrong with Quinn thinking someone special is looking out for her?", etc. Daria resisted until finally she gave in and echoed those very words to Quinn.

If it can't be proven otherwise, then it is a possibility, true? It may not be conventional wisdom, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Maybe not completely right, but not wrong.

I find it odd that everyone thinks Daria is all raging hormones underneath. Certainly some exist, or she wouldn't have gone for seconds on the kissing, but it's not like she's definitely been repressing these powerful emotions. Not *every* teenager is horny and desperate for sex. Even with Trent, Daria had a romantic crush, not a flashes of hot and sweaty beneath the sheets crush. I think a lot of the passionate, sexy Daria is fanwanking.

Well Daria by the end of the series was just barely old enough to vote. I don't think she has to worry about smashing emotional barriers quite yet, no matter what people tell her. Most likely, the barriers will come down gradually and naturally, without pressure from moms and best friends.

I agree, the guilt was a factor. But maybe being rushed into a relationship -- Jane and Tom were doing a *lot* of pushing -- was, too. Maybe Daria wasn't used to being just friends with a guy, because she hadn't known too many nice ones. There was Beavis and Butthead, best left forgotten; Ted, who had expressed an overt attraction to her first; Trent, who was a cool romantic crush before he became a friend, and Tom. It felt as though Daria had barely started liking Tom before Jane was putting on the jealousy act and treating their easy rapport like some covert sexual-attraction thing (when I think she was really responding to Tom's attraction to Daria, and trying to clamp it off the only way she knew how, by telling her best friend to *butt out*).

When Jane told Daria that she could go out with Tom, it seemed to take Daria by surprise. Some insight into Daria's thought process would have been *really* helpful here, like if she were truly interested. Even during the talk with Helen, when a confession like "See the truth is, I sort of *do* like him. I just didn't realize it" would have made sense, we got nothing except Daria's denial, again, and her expression of concern for Jane. Honestly, can Daria know her own mind *that little* if she can't even admit to being attracted to her best friend's beau? Or is it possible she *didn't* see the attraction Jane accused her of? Then, after her best friend got so pissed off at her, they practically weren't speaking, she decided to try a relationship with Tom because, hey, how often do smart, funny guys like her? It looked as though Jane wasn't going to be spending time with her. Had Daria and Jane normalized their relationship after The Kiss, I suspect Daria would have told Tom "sorry, no thanks."

So basically, I'm not saying there was never interest on Daria's part. I'm just saying I don't think she had these deeply-buried feelings for Tom that just burst out during ten seconds of kissing. I think she friend-liked him, while Tom had a crush on her that Jane picked up on, and Jane assumed the feelings were mutual. Then when Daria discovered she *liked* kissing Tom, and Jane stopped speaking to her after both she and Tom pushed Daria to date, Daria decided that maybe going out with Young Thomas would be worth a try. But she wasn't ready, and she never got over the guilt, so it didn't work.

Well, we disagreed about Jake and managed to survive.

Kara Wild wrote:

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. I don't think she was ever characterized as "all raging hormones". I also think that you've got to admit that she *has* hormones, and dealing with them has to be a part of her character. For a moral absolutist like Daria, that's going to cause internal conflict. And conflict is integral to Drama, ergo, it's a good topic for a show. I think the writers handled it pretty well. Could they have done well otherwise? Yes, but the path they took remained true to the character.

Agreed. As she realizes that "life is pain" with or without the barriers she's erected, she'll disassemble them.

I think she saw it, but she *couldn't* admit it. That's the internal conflict. Her moral principles forbid her from even considering such an attraction, but absolutely everything else in her is telling her she's attracted. Her intellect tells her that Tom's a good conversationalist, intelligent and has similar interests. Her emotions tell her he's gentlemanly, considerate, patient, witty and decent. Her hormones tell her "What a guy! Woo! Woo!"

At first, she follows her principles and denies her emotions, intellect and, yes, hormones. Then, when those principles are overwhelmed, she just can't resolve the paradox, and so, continues to play the African Queen.

I disagree. (respectfully, of course). I think that's pretty much what happened, and I think it's true to the characterization of Daria for that to be the case. Of course, as soon as the feelings "burst out", the conflict was revealed, and things got much more interesting, as is always the case in Drama. And I think the resolution in Season 5 (and IICY) was generally well done within the bounds of previous characterizations, too.

I think this is part of the real genius of "Daria". Each episode, each season, and the entire series (DTAH and [address] excepted) followed the dramatic path while showing increasing depth of characterization yet remaining consistent with the original, broad characterizations of Season 1, and avoiding soap operaish convolutions.

(Sorta off topic, but it segues nicely with the above so I'll include it anyway...) I can only imagine what would have happened if Susie Lewis-Lynn had remained on board to integrate the music for the rest of the series. The one thing I thought was lacking after Season 2 was the tight musical integration that leads to "moments of perfect theatre" like the "dressing as Quinn" sequnce in QTB. One well placed musical clip during any of those moments of conflict in the final seasons might have made one huge difference in our "takes" on what was happening.

Happy Holidays to all.

Peace Kevin

I don't mean the writers; I meant perceptions in fandom, illustrated in various fanfics and MB conversations over time. And true, it's not *everyone*, but several people do seem to be of the opinion that Daria is all passion inside and her intellect is just a veneer.

I also think that you've got to admit

One of my biggest complaints about The Love Triangle and The Kiss (though an in-depth exploration could be saved for another thread) is that it didn't *need* to happen to create conflict and drama. There were already enough elements within the show, within Daria and Jane's friendship alone, that conflict could have arisen more organically. Jane getting fed up with Daria's oppressive negativity and telling her so, for instance.

I think the writers handled it pretty well. Could they have done well

I agree: they did about as well as they could within the confines of the cliche.

Perhaps, but if we never saw Daria so much as acknowledge the attraction before Jane and Trent started ribbing her, how could we know this for certain? There were *no* blushes, *no* repressed fantasies, *no* mentions of Tom outside of a "Why are you going with me and not Tom?" context, not even a casual slip to another member of the family, *no* sign of a book Tom lent her or a message on her voice mail from "someone named Tom." The only sign we got that she felt anything for him was that look at the end of ILAP, which frankly could mean anything, and the discovery that Daria had called Tom up about a movie. But that still says "friend" to me; if we were meant to see more just from that, we stray into the dangerous, cliched territory that guys and girls "can't ever be *just* friends."

I will agree that the writers dearly *wanted* us to think that something was starting between Daria and Tom in ILAP, or the episode wouldn't have played the end song they did. But Daria's behavior after ILAP and before "Fire!" does not necessarily conform to that desire. Otherwise, this discussion would be moot.

Season 5, they dropped a few balls. Jane's uncharacteristic burst of jealousy was never really dealt with. Tom as Daria's boyfriend seemed to do as much harm as good. I agree with Cincgreen and many others who said that the only reason Tom exists is because MTV wanted the Eichler team to prove Daria and Jane weren't lesbians. Heaven forbid!

People have said (I think MKH, in particular), that Jane was modelled after Susie, and that her departure after Season 3 might be part of the reason Jane's characterization was all over the map in Season 4.

In article , [email] says...

You said succinctly what I tried to said to say in this thread all along.

Daria is a woman of many layers, not unlike her mother. She cannot be classified as a raging teenage hormone like Kevin or Brittany. And her reactions to a situation like this will always appear differently to anyone else.

We'll agree to disagree on this.

This has been nagging me for awhile and I don't think I've heard or seen the reason anywhere, but I'm going to ask now: Why did Susie Lewis-Lynn leave Daria in the first place?

Firah

Supposedly it was because she was getting divorced from her husband, who was a big MTV honcho, and went to work at MTV's West Coast branch to put some distance between them.

In article , [email] says...

Talk about the biggest what-if of all: What if Susie Lewis-Lynn had stayed on for Seasons 4, 5 or even possibly 6? Would her direct influence have changed the direction of the show or would it have remained, more or less, the same?

Firah

Hmm, hard to say. Susie was on hand during Season 3, which for me was the most disappointing season because of lack of character growth, so she might have been more in favor of humorous stand-alone episodes than a dramatic story arc. But then, she might have put her stamp of approval on the Love Triangle before she left. My guess is, the most impact she would have had would be to say, "Oh don't have Jane do that. Jane would *never* do that."

I want to thank all, who participated at this very good Daria-fan-theories-debate.

Futher I have got TWO questions:

most is snipped:

Question One: IIRC Glenn Eichler and pals were interviewed about their "evil doings" in the show "Daria":-) My question. Was Susie Lewis-Lynn ever interviewed about her "evil doings"?

Question Two: Sorry, that I make now a hastly conclusion: Could it be that "Jane Lane" was actually a invention of Mrs. Lewis-Lynn?

She was in the TOON magazine issue that came out mid-Season Three, along with Glenn.

I don't know. Even if she wasn't, she was probably based on Susie.

If you feel like going over the argument any more, I just finished an essay:

[email] (Kara Wild) wrote in message news:...

I hope there are still back issues avaliable.

D. T. Dey

[email] (Daniel Dey) wrote in message news:...

You'll have to check with Michelle Klein-Haas. I'd transcribe the Q and A from my copy, but it's at my parents' house 400 miles away. : P

[email] (Kara Wild) wrote in message news:...

Whoa! This essay is great stuff. If there would be a diploma in "Daria-nism", then you would get it for sure.

You are right, that the main reason of the Daria-Jane-Tom thingie was actually brutally forced by the MTV-writers. Who "crammed" in: Daria-Tom-shipperism in 412 and 413. (IMHO : Because they only wanted to have stomach turning cliffhanger for IIFY.) And indeed: You need a microscope to crudely explain, why the hell Daria would start smooching around with Tom.

Your observations of the triangle are very, very, very plausible. I doubt the MTV-writers themselves can come up with such a similiar, clear explanation like that.

Actually, you should put your essay in a new thread on this news group.

PS: If this essay were on ff-net... 5 out 5 stars

[email] (Kara Wild) wrote in news:[email]:

This is an absolutely superb essay! Very readable, very effective.

Ian.

Ian Barber wrote in message news:...

Thanks, Ian, Ace. Feel free to challenge any parts that don't make sense to you. I mostly wrote this to 1) explore my position more thoroughly (whether I had any ground to stand on) and 2) to clarify my points and *really* take a look at the situation before us. It's helpful as a starting-off point.