According to my TV Guide, "Daria! The Musical" will feature seven original songs. That's almost a song every three minutes, and songs usually run about two minutes! This really *is* gonna be chock full.
This actually makes me wonder if "The Musical" will be the first episode with an original song for the end credits (disregarding "Standing on my Neck", of course).
Thoughts?
--- John Berry
John Berry wrote:
7 songs? Wow. That must've taken a whole lot of work to get 'em all done, somewhat on-topic, and under 21 minutes total. Ordinarily I loathe musicals (childhood trauma involving musical theater and handmade sock puppets-- I still have nightmares <g>), but I eagerly anticipate this one.
Just don't make me sing "Surrey With The Fringe On Top" with a sock puppet. *shudders violently*
Oh, and BTW, a happy birthday to Willie Lowman-- good luck on that sales quota!
returning to a dreamless sleep, rich.
"Stop the bus! Stop the bus!" -- Chester
Ok so I haven't seen it yet, but it appears from the MTV synopsis of "Daria! - The Musical" and from the TV spot that Lawndale is going to be hit by a hurricane.
This offers some additional insights into the old question of where Lawndale might be located. A hurricane suggests that Lawndale is located in a coastal area or nearby. Of course we know where the ocean is relative to Daria's room, "The bathroom is down the hall. Or there's an ocean--that way." Naturally we can expect Daria's sense of direction to be perfect, we just don't know how far away the ocean might be. Now we might have a little better idea-- it's within range of a hurricane. Of course that could still be a considerable distance. I remember when what was left of Hugo came through here. It was no longer a hurricane but it still was tearing down trees and powerlines with 50 MPH winds. Hugo was still officially a hurricane when it hit Charlotte, NC, some 200 miles from the coast, and tore the place up pretty badly. OTOH, the unnaturally flat landscape of Lawndale, no mountains, suggests it might be a coastal community.
So knowing this, now where do you think Lawndale might be? Or does anyone want to open this one up again?
Bob
In article , [email] wrote:
I had the impression that Lawndale is an east coast type of town, maybe between New York and Atlanta, so all of this hurricane jazz would back that up.
Not particularly (my guess would be somewhere in Maryland, END OF DISSCUSSION!!)
Mike Quinn I can be reached through e-mail at: [email]
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:41:47 GMT, Mike Quinn wrote:
There is a real-life Lawndale in North Carolina. It hardly looks like the thriving metropolis depicted at the beginig of "The Daria Diaries." There is a Lane St. though. It looks too far inland to sustain any substantial damage from a hurricane
[email] wrote:
*groan* Not again! <g>
All I will say is that if one little hurricane gets them all singing, then they can't be *too* close to the Southeastern coast-- otherwise they'd be groaning with the rest of us. Every damn hurricane that gets within 500 miles of here makes everyone's lives miserable for about a week, as everyone scurries to lay in supplies-- and it gets even worse if the damn thing hits. Not to mention all of the vacations and weekend plans that get ruined, even if the stupid thing doesn't hit. Grrr.... But I know a lot of people who had no power for over two weeks after Hugo trashed Charlotte, and after Fran hit here in Chapel Hill, you had to boil all water for a week, on top of the fact that I didn't have any power for almost a week. Hurricane hair in extremis. :P Riding out the storm's the easy part-- unless you're one of those whack-jobs who likes to go to the coast and watch the hurricane make landfall, in which case you deserve your fate for sheer stupidity-- thanks for cleaning up your part of the gene pool. <g> The hard part is trying to find a bag of ice or a working gas station after the stupid storm grinds everything to a halt. Or worse, to find a station on the radio or on the little battery-powered TV that *isn't* blathering about the stupid hurricane.
Can you tell I can't wait until Hurricane Season starts again? :P
rich.
Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...
Bob wrote:
Umm, no. Thanks. The definitive answer's been given: "In your television set."
(But if you insist, I'll *still* stick with the Potomac River Valley, Maryland or Virginia).
Peace Kevin
[email] of Deja News - The Leader in Internet
Hurricanes can happen anywhere though, on an occasional basis. It's only if they get an annual one that it would suggest it was in some hurricany place like Florida or wherever. Eg. about 11 years ago virtually the whole of Britain was hit by a hurricane that caused total havoc (our university campus alone lost 300 trees that night) yet the UK isn't in a hurricane belt. (On the plus side, sections from the trunks of two of those trees have made very effective loudspeaker stands for me for the past decade! At 20kg apiece their solidity tightens up the bass response nicely.)
-Shez.
Is it true that in Hartford, Herriford, and Hampshire, hurricanes hardly ever happen?
;-)
JBassior wrote in message ...
ever
<chuckle>
But when they do, you can see these long columns of trucks with relief supplies: brown lorry, yellow lorry, brown lorry, yellow lorry, brown lorry, yellow lorry, brown lorry, yellow lorry.
And the rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain.
Martin.
Isn't Lawndale in Texas???? Don't know why I think it is. Isn't Highland (Beavis and Butthead home) in TX also???
In article ,
Um...if Lawndale was in Texas, where are the Hispanics? OK, so Andrea looks a LITTLE Hispanic...and Sandi could pass for a gringa-like Hispanic...but where are the "token" Mexican-Americans (the majority of Hispanics in TX are of Mexican heritage)?
Hm...unless it's somewhere up near the Panhandle area...nope...wait, if Lawndale was really a Texas suburb, it would have to be someplace outside Houston, seeing as though that area is the richest area in the state...but then again, there are a largeish sum of people of Mexican heritage there, too...hm.
I do know this: Lawndale can't be anywhere near San Antonio (my place of residence). It's too working class to be able to have a suburb like that.
On message 186 of 223 (so that's why I'm posting so little),
deena lissa
"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?
deena lissa wrote:
What did I warn you about the traffic on this NG? ;-)
rich.
Helen: Bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality.
Jake: Jefferson!
Helen: Stalin.
In article , [email] wrote:
LOL...you're right...what's even worse about it is that on alt.culture.us.1980s (this other newsgroup I frequent), there were about the same amount of messages. *groan* Can we say, "Evelyn Wood speed reading crash course"? :)
Overjoyed that she got to see "[address]" again while getting ready for Sunday Mass (8 a.m. whooo hooo LOVE that time slot),
deena lissa
"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?
I'll play. I missed the original bru-ha-ha.
A hurricane definitely seems to put Lawndale within daytrip distance of either the Eastern seaboard, or the Gulf (the West Coast isn't prone to hurricanes as such). I'm a little bit surprised, because I always had Lawndale pegged as midwestern (possibly due to the Mall of the Millenium, whose real-world cognate is in the North Central US). Also, the extreme racial insularity of Lawndale (two black families, one American Indian (maybe, I'm thinking of Jesse) no Hispanics or Asians) appears to argue against either coast or Texas, but could easily apply to anything between Chicago and Spokane. Of course, Suburbia has a venerable and dishonerable tradition of enforced racial homogenity.
Maryland does sound like a good option, as does New Hampshire or Massachusetts. Don't be too quick to dismiss the Gulf region, however. Lawndale could easily be one of the snootier suburbs of Houston (or part of the West side of Florida, but the vegitation seems wrong). Most urban Texans don't have strong accents (most aren't even Texan), and a few characters (notably the wheezy fat woman) have displayed a bit of a drawl. Also, although nothing like the Mall of the MIllenium actually exists in Texas, if it did it would be more likely to be built down here than up on the East coast.
[email] wrote in message ...
"Daria! -
Lawndale
coastal
better
mountains,
want
On the mountaintop, "Chris McCubbin" spake thusly: <snippage of a really intelligent post so I can say what I wanna say and split>
Most urban Texans
A lot of the natives where I live have slight drawls that sound Southern, and I live in the upper Midwest. <shrug> Go figure.
-Mindy "I only hate people that break stuff I love into tiny pieces."
"Daria: The Musical" You wouldn't think realism was something they were concerned with when they came up with *that* premise (large groups of people spontaneously breaking into choreographed song-and-dance numbers?), but you'd be wrong. Think about it, if the rumors are true that "Daria" is aging one year for every two seasons, then ep. #301 should be, as they've suggested, in the beginning of the next school year for Daria. That would be either August or September. There is also supposed to be a hurricane in #301. When do hurricanes happen? Well, the hurricane "season" for the US is June through November, but the VAST majority occur in . . . August or September! (Never at all in winter or spring; now *that* would've been a serious violation of realism). Unless they were willing to introduce the show with a "blow", they really had to wait until now, and no later, to manage this sort of technical accuracy. This ep. may have been planned for quite a while... As to the speculation regarding the likely location of Lawndale, a hurricane doesn't reveal anything new. This is a consistency issue. Way back in #103- "College Bored" we learned Lawndale was close to "Middleton College," founded in 1776. Since the only states in the US with ANY college established before 1780, even, are all on the Atlantic (Pennsylvania? sort of, close enough!) an East-Coast site was a given from the start. (Actually, if you think about what "Middleton College, Est. 1776" means you might pin Ld. a bit more finely.) In any case, I rather admire their remembering the meterological consequences of their chosen location. What they're giving away about s3 does sound a bit surreal, but if they keep up with these little details, how far will they really go?
BB
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:59:49 -0500, "B_B_England" wrote:
I wonder if the creators are watching this debate, saying, "That's it... keep running around in that hampster wheel. All those details are random... let's see if you find out something we don't know..."
In article , "Chris McCubbin" wrote:
In the interview I did with Glenn Eichler which will appear in Toon Magazine next month, he specifically mentions Baltimore as a possibility, but stresses that Lawndale doesn't live on the map but between his and the other writers' ears.
--.\\<-H--
PS: I still am locating Lawndale in Connecticut for the purposes of my fanfic continuum.
isnt one of quinn's friends asian? Saerah
I think "Asian" means different things in the UK & US. In Britain it means specifically people from the Asian subcontinent (Indian, Pakistani, etc), whereas in the US the term seems to include Chinese too, so you would say Tiffany was Asian but we wouldn't.
-Shez.
On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:57:07 +0000, Shez wrote:
In fact, Asian, at least here in California, referrs _specifically_ to the Chinese, Vietnamese, Hmong, Japanese, etc. and Indians are referred to simply as Indian (which, until recently, caused me considerable semantic consternation, due to the fact that for a long time, I referred to the indegenous peoples of this continent, "Indians", as well). There just weren't many real Indians here until very recently, so we didn't have a general term for them.
Tarvok wrote:
So what are people from Pakistan? Around here, all coloured people often get called "Pakis", even this kid I knew who was half-white and half-black (for lack of a better way to put it), which I thought was rather stupid.
On Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:15:06 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Same answer as yours to "where would you put vietnamise, Hmong, etc." I don't think I've met one that I know of.
Tarvok wrote:
Really? There's loads around here.
In article , [email] (AniSaerah) wrote:
Yes, Tiffany is Asian, and so is Ms. Li.
--.\\<-H--
On 12 Feb 1999 06:30:12 GMT, [email] (AniSaerah) wrote:
Tiffany's asian, right?
Tarvok wrote:
No, how'd you figure? She looks Chinese or something.
In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:
Okay, okay, I /know/ Shez already explained this, but... WHERE THE HELL DO YOU THINK CHINA IS? yeesh. Once again, I apologise, but this is the first I've heard of this particular Englishism, and it makes less sense than most. I mean, Indians - who are from the Indian Subcontinent- are Asians, but the Chinese who make up /most/ of East Asia are not? Enlighten this poor ignorant colonial, please?
I imagine the Chinese will be surprised to find out they're not Asian,
Cappadocius"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl fhtagn."
Maybe it's because the subcontinent used to be part of the British Empire, so that's the only bit we thought about. China is usually thought of here as the Orient, and Chinese etc as Oriental rather than Asian. If you think about it, Asia-the-continent covers so many racial groups, from the Urals in the West to the Pacific coast in the East, that it's a pretty meaningless label to use with respect to people. You might as well lump Africa with Europe as India with China, the only thing they have in common is that both use squiggly writing.
-Shez.
Cappadocius wrote:
To me and most others in this country, Chinese people are from China, and Asian people are from India, Pakistan, etc. The Chinese do not need to be lumped in with other Asians because there are rather a lot of them; enough for them to have a seperate term. Also, they look very different to, say, Pakistanis.
On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:49:55 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
And where do you put the Vietnamise, Laotian, Hmong (for whom my own Fresno, CA, is home to many refugees from the 'Nam war), and other southeast asian types? Most would be insulted to be called Chinese!
Tarvok wrote in message ...
Yep the words are used slightly differently in the UK Though nobody would argue that describing southeast asian people as asian is "wrong", common usage of the word "asian", here, very often doesn`t include them
Oriental China and southeast asia
Asian
India
Pakistan
BangladeshHow well is asia defined as a place ?
My approach is this: If I was puzzled as to what nationality a particular person was, I would in conversation, casually, ask them where they were from. If they said "Asia" i would call them "Asian", if they said India, I would call them "Indian", and so on.
Hope I solved some problems.
CrtoonDude wrote:
It makes sense. :) Most of the "Asians" I encounter are British anyway, except for one of my friends who is actually American or Canadian or something.
Unless you ask someone like my friend Susan, who was born in Korea (making her.... Korean!), but if you ask her where she's from she'd say Alabama, where she lived much of her life.... all rather confusing really
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
Eccles9697 wrote:
I'm always really confused about what to say I am. I have a Greek passport and an English passport, so no help there. I don't speak Greek, but I was born there, and I am not particularly proud of my Englishness! :) I've pretty much concluded that I don't come from anywhere, and that I'm not anywhere either. My body is in England and was in Greece, but it doesn't feel like I'm in my body right now for some reason, anyway.... :)
i think everyone should get to decide for themselves where they're from... as long as you actually lived there for some point, you could say that you're Greek. That's my opinion, anyway.
However, if you want to say that you're not FROM anywhere, i guess that works, too..
It's best not to be too specific, if questioned stick to stating your species and planet of origin.
-Shez.
In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:
Sorry to kinda barge in right here, but why are you "not particularly proud" of being British? I think England has got to be the coolest country on the face of Planet Earth, and have felt this way since I first learned about it (i.e. when I was about four years old). I've always wanted to go there, and it's been about five years since I've first expressed an interest in moving there.
I love cold and rainy days, New Romantics, Britcoms, and tea -- so I think I should be mostly set. Hm...have to talk about this with Clive...hee hee hee.
Oh yeah, and like was said earlier, YOU go ahead and decide "what" you are, okay dear? (like what I do...whenever anyone asks me what my ethnicity is, I say I'm an American of Mexican and Spanish descent). I mean, it is you who is determining who you are, right? Who knows more about you than you? Answer...no one. So...there ya go.
deena lissa (yes, I shall stop posting now...[puts down the posting wand])
"Sure eyes awake before the dancing is over, Wise or naked in Secret Oktober..." -- "Secret Oktober", Duran Duran (1983)
deena lissa wrote in message ...
Yep and the fourteenth century laws...and all the pubs close at 11 not that anyone apart from 17 year olds bother to go to the bloody things anymore, and the lovely "reserved" attitude, that in reality means a lot of English people have two modes of operation "non-communicative" and "violent"...sure come over , but don`t get "stuck" here, whatever you do!
Paul gate wrote in message ...
ISTM I feel better about living in England than you do; but Grimsby and Surrey are different places. We've each got to call it as we see it.
It ain't utopia: the lottery culture, the fallout of the Eighties "Greed is good" mentality, the moral bankruptcy of much tabloid journalism, have seen to that.
But it's not dystopia either. Maybe the further you get from the centre of the country's economic life, the further you get from the (now more subtle) "Loadsamoney" culture and its aftershock?
Martin.
Martin Sylvester wrote in message ...
Well this is a large part of the problem yes, but i feel there are more "deeprooted" problems with the English`s attitude to the world in general
It is a dead culture it has ceased to be.
Whenever the English talk about culture they uinevitably talk about the past A culture should be alive in the here and now!
This as far as i can make out is true, the further you get from the southeast the less unbearable the general atmos is
Never been to Grimsby, but scotland is definately a big improvement on the southeast
Paul gate wrote:
The English have a culture: crap football and crap lager! The English, as a nation, are pretty crap all-round. What have the English done? They invented cricket and created a large empire, the remenants of which they are still feebly clinging to. They have had few or no great scientists, artists, or writers. There is nothing particularly wrong with that, but England for some reason still has incredible delusions of adequacy. :) Sure, it's not all that bad, it's a nice place in parts, but it seems to think it's far better than it actually is.
My dad lived in Manchester for a while; he says it's nice up there apart from the weather and the accents.
I've never been outside the south-east. Sad, isn't it? Two of my friends went to Scotland with their family last year and hated it. However, their enjoyment of the holiday may have been slightly spoiled by the fact that the person they were out there to visit committed suicide two weeks before they went up there.
On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:14:32 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
A lot of good ship captains in the 16th century, though.
I think of England as a "retired" nation.
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
I think Football *is* English culture...Thats it..thats all you get folks! If you are outside football, you are operating outside mainstream English "culture", football is heavily reliant on ques from the past It`s a warfare simulation in a very real way..The civilians are the various football "tribes" the soldiers are the players...it is a game more than any other whos culture is based on the tribal instinct. And English culture is based on or identicle to, football culture Its a simple theory...but it works!
Average on a good day Yep, a nation of shopkeepers.
Paul gate of UUNET writes:
All team sports are tribal I think, they all stem from people in one town or village having ritualised battles with those from another, showing off their physical prowess. What's happened in the second half of the 20th Century though is that it's become commercialised, the tribal battles are now fought by mercenaries, as the football (or whatever) teams are no longer made of local people but players bought in from anywhere and everywhere. Maybe that's why there's all the violence and stuff, as the real tribal stuff has been forced off the pitch and onto the terraces or streets, with the genuine locals, the supporters, battling it out with each other directly instead of in some ritualised fashion.
-Shez.
Shez wrote in message ...
Yep agreed...Though why is it that Bowls, Cricket, Athletics,Croquet Rugby, Motor racing ect ect ect, do not have histories full of mindless thug supporters kicking the living shit out of each other and dismantling trains en route? Is there something "special" about football?
Paul gate wrote:
Well, it's just the one that is currently most popular. Therefore, more thugs like it, and there's more kicking the shit out of the other thugs, because there're *more* other thugs.
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
I wonder if any Americans would like to join this with information about the violence attached to American football or baseball? Both these are extremely popular...but as far as i am aware, violence attached to these sports is relatively uncommon.
"Paul gate" wrote:
It all depends. Most baseball games are, IMO, too boring to fight over, and any violent feelings football fans have get sublimated through the banging and smashing that takes place on the field. Sometimes some fans will get a little wild after a championship (it depends on the city) and riot a little, but the police are usually ready with the cuffs and the tear gas. <g>
I do remember one time our marching band's bus in HS was pelted by rocks and bottles after we beat a big rival at their homecoming (it's like a big reunion weekend for all former students), but we weren't surprised that they threw stuff at our bus, as we knew they were too stupid to tell the difference between the band bus and the football team's bus. Idiots. And every now and then you'll hear about a shooting at a HS football game in one of the more crime-prone areas, but shootings there are usually gang- or drug-related, not football-related. In other words, the stadium just happened to be the place where the crime took place-- it could have just as likely happened in the parking lot as well. (Makes you feel better, huh?) <g>
rich.
Brittany: Shut up, naked boy!
On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:16:11 -0000, "Paul gate" wrote:
During the daytime, my high school, was a relatively safe place, despite it's location on the west side (read: bad) of town. At night, long after basketball games, don't hang around. There were occasionnal shootings in the parking lot. Only once per year, perhaps, but they did happen.
As far as football goes, my own high school wasn't much of a competitor (until AFTER I graduated), the school my sister went to (Theodore Roosevelt High School) has a considerable rivalry with Fresno High School. (The three, Fresno, Roosevelt, and Edison, were the original three high schools.) Not much in the way of violence, though Roosevelt was recently vandelized by some unidentified students from Fresno High, in preparation for the upcoming game.
As far as why violence is uncommon in the professional area, well I think there are a number of factors. First of all, while people can become verbally... expressive... in connection to team rivalries, few people take it so seriously as to do actually physically attack someone. The few that do, and might if they are drunk, aren't many enough to start a riot. And even if there were a riot, our games are usually surround by professional types ready to take action in an emergency, from ambulances to handle injuries on the field, to the nearby police department (and, due to the fact that most stadiums are in large cites, national guard unit) ready to handle violence wherever it might occur, including the stadium. With a few extrememe exceptions (like LA a few years ago in connection with the outcome of the Rodney King trial), large scale violence just doesn't get out of hand here, at least in California.
In article ,
Well, I was in the marching band at my high school (which I guess made us like cheerleaders, only unpopular), so I spent a lot of time watching football games that I wasn't much interested in (but if I quit that, I'd have to join a different extra-curricular activity.) But in any case, our school was about as suburbian as Lawndale High. The only violence that took place aside from what went on on the field during the games, were once when we played an inner city school and a fight brok out, and another occason in which a guy in the stands got too drunk and fell off the top of the bleachers. I can't really say I'm completely against such violence.
[email] wrote:
I know that experience well. I was in the HS band, too. I joined a few years after the football team won the state championship-- you know, when all of the good players had left and the team really started to suck. *sigh* There's nothing like trying to get motivated to put on a show for an apathetic audience watching a pathetic football team. The applause was so thunderous, my ears still ring a little to this day. Our big rival had one of those creepy bands where everyone acted like they were part of one of those creepy cults-- they were always excited to have 4 hellish after school practices a week, and, of course, they racked up all kinds of awards at competition, but they were just, so, crrreeepy! (Did I mention that they were creepy? <g>) They were also the ones that had the booster club filled with parents who actually gave a damn. Odd, that.
Of course, the plus side of band (and choir, I did that, too) was the travel-- all kinds of interesting destinations. My HS was big enough that the arty crowd had its own social group-- no need to fear unpopularity or ostracization for doing what comes naturally (or unnaturally in the case of marching band). <g>
PUH-raaade REST! rich.
Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...
In article , [email] wrote:
Our band usually did fairly well at competitions, but there was no denying that we couldn't stand those practices. Mind you, we had a small subgroup that was definitely creepy the way you describe it.
Ah, definitely agreed. Anything that took me away from the hell that was my high school. Unfortunately, we didn't get to go any place that often; no thanks to our drunken band teacher, who was booted out the year AFTER I graduated. I don't think I'd be nearly as down on band if it weren't for him. But we only ended up going on two big trips, one to Toronto in 1996 and then to Disneyworld in 1997. And in the case of Toronto, we only got to go as back-up to the chorus, who seemed to despise us. No one in the band wanted to go on a trip if it wasn't to a "popular" destination. But, I've said too much. We only have a couple more hours to be constantly off-topic, no point in getting talkative now.
In article , [email] (paperpusher) writes:
We were pretty lucky in that regard. When I was in the band, our football team tied for section championships in my freshman and sophomore years, then crashed completely the next two. It didn't affect the crowd very much. They liked the band. They liked the football team. They'd cheer (loudly) for both. Friday night football games were (and still are) as much a community social as a sporting event. To this day, they'll draw 5,000 people to a home game. The football team hasn't had a winning season since 1979. The band is "show" style (though less so than when I marched, thanks to a new stadium). Still, the football team will get a cheer for every first down, and the cheering starts for the band at the first triplet from the lead snare (which is how every show starts).
Well, we didn't have a big rival, and there was only one school in our football section that had a competiton (we called them "corps style" back then) band. But I know what you mean. Creepy indeed.
We didn't travel much in either band or choir. The first real trip outside of Western Pennsylvania the band ever took was in my senior year to Niagara Falls. The choir didn't travel anywhere until about three years after I graduated. The drama club started going to Ball State about the same time. I wasn't there anymore. Anyway, as with your experience, the fine and performing arts students were socially acceptable in the general student population. Still, there was an undercurrent of "who really knows what *those* people are doing down in 'M' building all day."
Guide right, people! Watch your diagonals!
Peace Kevin
On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:18:49 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:
I absolutely LOVED band! In fact, that is one HS aspect that I think Daria has severly neglected. Yeah, I watched the football games, and even though they sucked, we still got REALLY enthusiastic in the stands; it had nothing do do with the game just we were all hyped up and enjoying the crowd dynamics. Still, our band wasn't much good. I enjoyed performences a bit (I was able to ignore the mistakes) but practices were absolutely horrible. Dr. Nolan had absolutely no control over the band (though I can't blame him. He wasn't even supposed to be doing the marching bit. He was supposed to have an assistant to do that, but, well the Administration lied.)
This is why I REALLY enjoyed it when I got to Fresno State, which truely has a first rate music program and a very strong marching band. Four hour practices are truely my style, considering what it results in when one finally gets into the spotlight. I loved it. Unfortunately, I no longer have time to devote my very soul to the Fresno State Bulldog Marching Band, so I don't march any more. Oh well.
What was my point? Oh yeah, I didn't have one.
In article , "Paul gate" wrote:
Well, I myself live in American football country (Texans are practically required by law to like this sport and even our all girls' high school played tackle American football for one of our P.E. sports). And nothing even close to what we see on the evening news as happening during soccer/football matches around the world, happens during our football games. Sure, there might be minor skirmishes in the parking lot, but those are mainly attributed to gangs showing up and really have no relevance to the actual game itself.
Minor league baseball games are even more laconic. We have this team (the San Antonio Missions) that's actually quite popular (the stands are frequently full), and nothing much really happens violence-wise. People will get drunk, yes, and there is more than enough audience participation-type stuff going on, but no one really gets downright violent. The worst crimes that could happen are drunk driving (when one needs to come home after one's guzzled too many brewskies) and littering (all those broken glass beer bottles alone...).
Funny...there was this special on American TV a while back that featured all these fights that happen at games, and while some were of the usual American things (coaches fighting with referees, players fighting with opposing players, players fighting with coaches/referees), over half were of highlights of riots at various soccer/football matches around the world. I wish I had taped it. It was funny.
deena lissa (who remembers being a very good defensive lineman in high school)
"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?
deena lissa wrote in message ...
Thats near enough what i had heard....Tell me,do American football fans dismantle trains they are travelintg in or terrorize residents of the area in which the game is played to the point that shops and bars are closed and boarded up...or in extremis...whole towns are actualy "closed down"!?... Do the fans of apposing teams have to be kept seperate, not only in the stands, but also on there way to and from the game for fear that they will kick each others heads in, if they catch sigh of each other? Do american football fans chant things like "you're going to get your f****ing head kicked in" Or more generaly is there any activity more moronic than English football, or any game more suited to the English national "character" :-)
rant over :-)
I can believe it....During the last world cup it was noticable that everywhere the English fans went , fights broke out, Then you got to sit and watch these "ape" supporters explain to the public on the news, that it wasn`t them that were causing all the trouble, oh no,it was all those devilish foreigners ;-)
"Paul gate" asks:
Nope. This is America. We shoot at each other. ;)
Jon Armstrong The Space Ranger Graveyard shift gives one a unique outlook on life. A dark one.
dismantle trains they are travelintg in or terrorize residents of the area in which the game is played to the point that shops and bars are closed and boarded up...or in extremis...whole towns are actualy "closed down"!?.. << Paul Gate
Doesn't happen. One reason, I suspect, is that enough Americans are armed that football fans trying this would literally be taking their lives into their hands in some parts of the country.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
Let's see.... Shakespeare, perhaps? A rather great writer. And Isaac Newton for scientists (Aah, Newton. Another member of the "I don't need someone to shag me to validate my existence" club...)
I don't think there are any cultures alive in the here and now! At least I don't see much great coming out. I look at the books coming out recently and it depresses me. Not too much since I have the rest of history to go through, but still like "Do people have any taste at all?". Music also seems to be rather at a loss for originality, as does most television (Daria excepted, of course, but without her the only thing my TV would be for would be a video player...)
While Americans have a differently-played football ala Kevin, but not much better. At least I think it's pretty shitty. Of course I guess one place is not a lot different from any other. At least that's what I tell Alley whenever she complains about New Jersey: it's exactly the same as Michigan...
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
Eccles9697 wrote in message ...
He was also a member of the "walk around with a face like sour milk" club he was reported to have laughed once during his life...and that was when somebody had an accident :-)
Sounds like our kind of person!
-Shez.
Eccles9697 wrote:
OK, Shakespeare and Newton. Would that not count as "few"? :)
In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:
for
me
Um. Time has yet to tell if these authors are great, but they seem to have devoted fanbases and get critical acclaim of various degrees: Neil Gaiman, Alan Grant, Terry Pratchett, Douglas Adams, Chaucer, Milton, CS Lewis, Ramsey Campbell, Charles Dickens, Rudyard Kipling.... As for scientists, how about: Darwin, Turing, Dalton, Rutherford, Chadwick, and Huxley.
Englishmen who fit into two or more categories: Francis Bacon and Arthur C. Clarke, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
fairly good mix of old and new, I think,
Cappadocius"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl fhtagn."
A few of these may be thought of as English, but were actually born outside England - does this mean we English have a history of passing off famous people as our own?
Lewis wasn't English.
Kipling wasn't English.
William Blake, Bertrand Russell, George Orwell, HG Wells, John Lennon and Paul McCartney however, were.
Rutherford wasn't English.
Francis Crick, Isaac Newton, George Stephenson, Isambard Kingdom Brunel...
You missed Gerry Springer (born in North London, AIUI). But we got rid of him.
Tony Walton wrote in message ...
Yep, For instance, the industrial revolution was largely due to the efforts of the Scottish
I thought George Stephenson was scottish and Brunel, French. Perhaps i`m wrong....i`ve lost my encyclopedia...again!
I know - the number of Dunlops, James Watts, John Logie Bairds and Alexander Flemings we English have stolen from the Scots is embarrassing. I'm 1/4 Scottish myself, so I do have an axe to grind here!
Nope. Born in Wylam, near Newcastle-on-Tyne in North Eastern England (I was born in Newcastle-on-Tyne). You're not thinking of James Watt of steam engine fame, are you? He was from Glasgow.
Brunel's *father* (Marc Isambard Brunel) was French - IKB was born in Portsmouth.
Cheers
Tony Walton of Sun Microsystems writes:
Ooh yes, Crick and Watson, the inventors of DNA! Where would life be without them? I remember seeing this biopic about it which starred Jeff Goldblum, it was very good. (I don't think Jeff Goldblum is British though.)
No-one's mentioned Stephen Hawking yet, which is just as well as I was reading somewhere that he's a flake who's never produced any useful Physics in his life! (Black holes? When did you last have to deal with one of them?)
-Shez.
Shez wrote:
LOL, nowhere, if they 'invented' DNA... :)
Hehe I watched that in AP Biology. I thought the whole "he's drawing a phsophate let's put in some stirring music to make people think this is exciting" thing was kind of overdone, but besides that it was OK.
No, Goldblum's character was James Watson, the American who came to England to study DNA. The Englishman (who was played by someone else) was Crick.
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
Shez wrote in message ...
I saw that...... It was called "life story" Francis Crick was played by Ian Piggott-Smith...I can never remember the female scientists name but she was played by...errrr..oh i can never remember that actresses name either...<sigh>
I think people are a little unsure about how important his contribution is/was Its true that most black holes are a long way away, but the stuff thats nearer isn`t any more interesting. :-)
Rosalind Franklin, but I don't know who played her.
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
Eccles9697 wrote in message ...
Yeah, i just remembered that while staring at a wall in the shower
I think she was played by Julia something
Anyhow i got the impression she did most of the work but unfortunately died before she could recieve a noble prize
...
Juliet Stevenson
She died in 1958, aged 37. The Nobel Prize was presented to Crick, Watson and Wilkins in 1962 - their work was largely based on X-ray crystallographic data supplied to them from work done by Franklin.
http://www.gene.com/AE/AB/BC/Rosalind_Franklin.html is a short biography of the brilliant Rosalind Franklin.
Paul gate wrote in message ...
while in the shower i just realised That the actor was Tim Pigot-Smith not Ian and the womans name was Rosalind Franklin
Retrieval time...20 mins
I think you're a bit wide of the mark here! What about Isaac Newton, widely regarded as the greatest scientist ever? Ok so Einstein managed to supersede some of his work 250 years later but that it took so long says something of Newton's genius. Charles Darwin, who was of similar stature in Biology, various engineers like Isembard Kingdom Brunel who produced all sorts of stuff. In this century there's Bertrand Russell (philosopher & very important mathematician, along with Whitehead), Alan Turing, who came up with the mathematical theories which gave us the computer (all modern computers are in fact implementations of a device he dreamt up called a "Universal Turing Machine"). People still around now include Richard Dawkins (love him or hate him...), Clive Sinclair, etc etc. I'm really only scratching the surface here.
In writing there's Shakespeare (another love him or hate him thing, but extraordinarily influential nevertheless), plus many other authors who I personally despise such as Dickens, but also some big name modern ones, Tolkien, Pratchett, etc. not to mention a bunch of scummy but popular authors who somehow sell novels by the bucketload.
Artists is more tricky, the most famous painters do seem to have been foreign, though we had Turner and Lowry for instance, In sculpture we had Henry Moore et al, and currently Andy Goldsworthy (who may possibly not be of world renown, though I've seen books of his stuff on sale in America, and he's my favourite artist). In cinema directors like Peter Greenaway and Ken Russell are quintessentially English I think. Then in music, although we've had little showing in previous centuries that all changed in the modern era with an enormous number of bands, I recall some statistic like a third of all albums sold are by British bands, which is pretty disproportionate given our population. The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, to name but three huge-name bands, and despite the deluge of drivel foisted on us via charts programmes there's still an enormous amount of musical talent out there producing good stuff.
I think what it is, is that the people who've made a difference to the world were probably not really part of the mainstream. The majority culture of Britain is pretty dire, football and lager and so on, but the larger image of Britain comes from it's large minority of weirdos who've made an impact on the world. The argument in favour of Britain seems to be that it somehow fosters such weirdness, though how this comes about isn't clear to me. I suppose maybe it's that (probably in common with all countries) there isn't a single unified culture but many separate strands that have little to do with one another, a few of which are cool and produce the things that Britain is famous for, whilst the other majority strands, comprised of small-minded or ignorant people blithely take credit for such stuff because it's "British", not thinking about the fact that if they ever met the people who had done so much for the UK's image they would probably spit in their face sooner than shake their hand. A classic example was Alan Turing, who not only pretty much invented the computer, but who's wartime work is reckoned to have shortened the war by a year or two, saving hundreds of thousands of lives. What happened to him? He was driven to commit suicide by the very people he did so much for, as he was gay and was persecuted by the authorities for this after the war, as homosexuality was still illegal at the time. In more recent times we see similar things with movements such as Punk -- vilified by "normal" people at the time, but with hindsight an influential movement that Britain is proud of.
Southern England is basically a different country to the North. I'm from Yorkshire originally and I would say that the Northern English identify more closely with the Scottish and the Welsh than they do with Southern England. "England" is basically a fiction, it's not really a country in anything other than an administrative sense. What people think of as stereotypical English (including the "English accent") is really Home Counties, ie. South East England. In my own identity I think of myself as a Yorkshireman, British, and European. I don't really think of myself as English at all, it simply has no meaning. When I was at school we thought of Southerners as scum basically, people who drank dishwater for beer and had posh accents. I'd never been down South, and nor had anyone I knew. I was quite surprised when I eventually went to university in the South to find that a lot of people were quite normal and that it was even possible to buy good beer (though it's always served flat in the South for some inexplicable reason, unless you get the fizzy keg stuff).
That would affect things somewhat. It tends to rain a lot in Scotland, especially on the West coast, but it's also very beautiful. Edinburgh is my favourite city in Britain, it's a very strange and wonderful place.
Wow, I seem to have written a whole essay here!
-Shez.
-----Original Message----- From: Shez Newsgroups: alt.tv.daria Date: 16 February 1999 01:13 Subject: Re: Where's Lawndale?--Daria! the Musical
Brunel was french...i think
It really doesn`t though..
Every country has a list of world-movers. It would be a simple matter to write a similar essay on France. the USA or Russia Importantly though, the English arrogantly seem to consider themselves head and shoulders above the rest of the world in this respect.
Shez wrote:
There have been more from other countries, though.
Very true, but I said "few" didn't I? Not all of those are known the world over or people who will be remembered in 200 years.
That's not many, though, is it? Again, not people who're likely to be remembered in 200 years.
I will admit to knowing little or nothing about cinema directors. :)
Music, I'll admit, is a strong point for the English. The number of good bands that there have been from this country is very disproportionate to the population. However, this should be no reason for the English to believe themselves to be superior to other nations. :)
Yeah, I'd agree with this. England would be a lot better if it stopped trying to destroy its better points. :)
That was another thing they commented on, the rain. Rain and suicide, great holiday, huh?
They went right up north of Inverness, I think. Or something like that, anyway. They were on the north coast. They didn't go to Edinburgh, anyway. I'd like to go there, but whenever my family goes in holiday in this country, it's always to Devon or somewhere. And it has to be by the coast for some reason. Why?? The sea is freezing in this country! There are better things to do than sit on a horrible beach all day, especially when it's raining!
I was kinda thinking that, yes! :)
On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:14:45 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Do you have access to a car, and the freedom to drive? Perhaps you might, in a few years (seems like a long time, doesn't it?). If I want to, and I have the time (it's so rare, these days), I can just hop in the car and drive up to the mountains, down to LA, to Sacramento, the coast, or wherever in California I like, relatively easily. I was just looking at a globe, and... what's the proper name for the island as a whole? Britain?... doesn't seem too much larger than California. Of corse, I live in Fresno, the dead center of the state, which makes no one place in California too far away for a day trip.
Tarvok wrote in message ...
Yes, Britain. (But strictly, Britain = England + Wales, and Great Britain = England + Wales + Scotland.) The drive from Land's End (the southwesterly tip of the island) to John O'Groats (the northeasterly one) takes 17 hours (that's drive-time, not allowing for stops).
I'd reckon (I've not checked) that no-one in England and Wales is much more than three hours drive from their nearest National Park; in Scotland, I'd imagine most people are within two hours of outstanding scenic beauty.
Some people in rural Scotland have a long drive to their nearest big city, though.
I'm 25 minutes drive from an AONB (a designated area of outstanding natural beauty), and two hours drive from a UN-designated World Heritage Site.
Martin.
In article , "Martin Sylvester" wrote:
Out of curiosity's sake, how long does it take for one to drive from one end of the country to the other? I'm asking because I think Texas is larger, and I can recall going on this roadtrip (to California, of all places) with my parents and it took us 12 hours just to get out of the state. And I want to know if it'd take that long for one to drive from the northern coast to the southernmost tip of Britain.
deena lissa (who, like any typical Texan, has this obsessive fascination with "large"ness)
"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?
deena lissa wrote in message ...
end
and
to
Within the mainland of Great Britain: 17 hours (drive-time, not including any allowance for rests or fuelling stops) from Land's End (southernmost point of mainland, in England) to John O'Groats (northernmost tip of mainland, in Scotland).
Within mainland Britain (only England and Wales [1]): 11 hours drive-time from Land's End to Berwick-upon-Tweed (on the east coast, last big town south of the Scottish border).
Of course, there are other islands besides the mainland.
Martin.
[1] If you never realised there was a distinction between Britain and Great Britain you're in good company: a suprising number of Brits don't understand that distinction, and the terms are often used as if they were synonyms.
Martin Sylvester wrote:
I know there is a difference, we were taught this in Geography in year 7.....but I was shit at Geography and I can't remember any of it! :)
Shez wrote in message ...
And a good one at that. Thanks!
Martin.
deena lissa wrote:
England is OK, apart from the appalling weather. It's got an NHS, free education, etc. However, English culture is crap. There's been some good bands/worthwhile musical "movements", but other than that it's shit. What is with the football obsession? And why do people like to get drunk on lager?
I think you lot probably all know more about me than me, actually! :)
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
proud"
the
it
and
moving
Alli, it's possible that your exposure to English culture may have been a little <ahem> limited? Unintentionally selective? I'm not being critical; I do appreciate that living in a town in Berkshire you're not at the absolute epicentre of English cultural life. 8-)
Speaking as someone who isn't football-obsessed, and who would walk five miles to have a pint of English real ale rather than drink the stuff that comes from the lager factories (in fact, I *have* walked five miles to have a pint of English real ale rather than drink the stuff that comes from the lager factories),
Martin.
Martin Sylvester wrote in message ...
Lager bad, real ale good.
My local used to be 3 miles walk away (along canal bank). I say used to because it stopped being 6 constantly changing guest ales to become electric pumps of fizzy all round.
Poll for the day UK ATD readers, to lager or not to lager? (the Americans don't get to answer cos they don't know what beer is).
Bettster
Bettster wrote in message ...
This Olde worlde reale ale thing is complete and utter gumpf. I have tried some "real ale" and wondered if the stuff is actualy technicaly fit for human consumption. Only in Britain could you get away with selling sewage as a product, because its "traditional"
A lot of largers are uninteresting, but take a look at the competition who the hell wants to fish animal bits out of their beer!
The decent european lagers whip the floor with virtualy all British "real ale" on the other hand, thats not very difficult
Paul gate wrote in message ...
I
absolute
have
the
electric
Are you sure your not confusing it with homebrew? Now there's a substance to scare the strongest man :)
Bits of animal? what were you drinking?
ale"
That's a totally different type of product though, both in terms of ingrediants and technique used to produce. Just about all "lagers" made in the uk arn't technically lager at all as they are brewed by the wrong technique.
Bettster Sticking to his pint of old peculiar.
Bettster wrote in message ...
Homebrew is another issue entirely.....boy oh boy oh boy Beer that actualy smells "bad"...crikey
Yep mad though it might sound they actally drop bits of animal in some of these beers, and lot it rot away to "bits". Back in the eighth century they thought, doing this kept out devils, or something In the old days,of course, they didn`t bother brewing beer at all, they would just let ditchwater sit around for a few days untill you couldn`t see the bottom of the tank anymore...good to see the old techniques kept alive :-)
It`s still BEER though, so if the europeans can make beer that actualy tastes nice why can`t we?
Yes it is totaly different...it is also a great deal better
Bettster Sticking to his pint of old peculiar
Yep thats sticky stuff! I have tried it once or twice...its awfull!!
London Pride is ok though
Paul gate wrote in message ...
I wouldn't say better, just a variation on a theme. I'm a big fan of dark flavorfull beers. Yeah I know there are some dark lagers out there, but most lager does nothing for me.
Back evil one! How can you not like what must be one of the best classic beers going? I once convinced a mate of mine to make a small 60 mile detour on a journey we were on just so we could visit a pub which served it in excellent condition.
I wouldn't list it in my favorite beers list, but I can drink it. Strangely it's better served flat a la london style.
Strange how uk Daria deprevation can cause bad thread drift isn't it? Bettster
Bettster wrote in message ...
Because its dark, thick, sickly and tastes the way rotting orange peel, smells (if that makes any sense)
Ahhh i think you have just explained something that`s been troubling me. London pride seems to be changing...its going all "creamy" and frothy...uuuuuughh. So this is some evil influence from the north, is it?
Martin! are you out there? Tell your northern freinds to leave stuff alone, they don`t understand! :-)
Its pretty difficult to talk about Daria right now, isn`t it? Pretty soon the new eps will start in America..and they`ll all be having a ball, chittering away about it...ever felt left out?
Paul gate wrote in message ... [...]
No: from the brewery's accountants, I fear (read on...)
Your description is alarming news. That creamyfrothyfication sometimes happens when a real ale is "converted" to a nitrokeg.
A Nitrokeg is not a real ale, but a keg ale to which a mixture of nitrogen and carbon dioxide (possibly other gases) are added at kegging, and injected at dispense, to give a creamy texture with lots of tiny foamy bubbles. It's regarded by many as an attempt to deceive the drinker into thinking they've got a real ale - its texture is so different from those kegs that use different gas mixtures - when they've actually got a (much more profitable to the brewery (and pub?)) keg beer, and it works well. One of the trade names for the gas injection system is "Creamflow," ISTR; there are others.
It's not unknown for a real ale and a nitrokeg to be served under the same brand, so, asking for the same beer, in one pub you'll get the real thing, and next door the keg or the nitrokeg (Another reason to carry the GBG). If I'm in a pub that's new to me and unrecommended by anyone clued up, and not in the GBG, and they're serving a beer available in real and keg/nkeg versions, I ask the bar staff. When I get a blank incomprehension of the question ("Is this beer cask-conditioned?" "Is it real ale?"), that usually tells me all I need to know <g>.
We don't have Fuller's up here, so I don't know if it's being "converted." As I say, though, your description is alarming. It could be your local has switched from cask-conditioned to nitrokeg. 8-(
A less alarming, but still very bad, possibility is that landlords stocking London Pride are fitting the dispense nozzle with a mechanical device called a "sparkler." This violently agitates the beer as it enters the glass, creating a cloud of tiny bubbles of the dissolved gases occuring naturally in the beer. Some beers suit a sparkler, some, like London Pride, do not, since it ruins the classic southern flat texture of the beer. In CAMRA's view, none of Fuller's beers are suitable for dispensing through a sparkler. The GBG has a symbol to indicate whether a particular beer, or particular brewery's beers, can tolerate sparkler dispense and still retain their character. You could ask if there's a sparkler fitted (some of them look like tiny showerheads), and ask for it to be removed before your pint is poured, and compare it to a mate's.
Martin.
Martin Sylvester wrote in message ...
<Incredibly detailed advice on drinking London Pride deleted>
The "foamy" thing is spreading all over, unfortunatly I have switched to red wine...about one bottle is the right amount %-) I have given up on beer...there was one drinkable beer, and now they,ve ruined it
This is what i needed to know!...Thanks
Cripes martin, how do you know all these things?
Paul gate wrote in message ...
ruined it
He's a card carrying camra member, and not to give too much away they are like many secret societies with strange rules and initiation ceremonies.
Each member is encouraged to do certain things like carry "the book", grow a beard, take classes on discussing hopping rates and hints of roast malt.
Oh oh what's that pounding on my door? No! leave me! Please! I promise I won't say no more! Argghhh!
Bettster non beirdy, out of date book owning camra member.
Bettster wrote in message ...
I do hope you are not going to perpetuate that wholely undeserved stereotype of camra members...
You know that stereotype that paints them as beardy, sandle-wearing anoraks....mad about steam engine conventions, probably dowse leylines at the weekend, that sort of thing.. non of it is backed by any evidence at all! :-)
I do know a camra member and you can only tell the difference between him and the uinitiated when he is inside a pub..There his camra genes express themselves fully...He "eyes" his beer, and looks through it and says thing like "tut tut" and "oh my". Outside a pub he is like every other citizen ...apart from the steam engine conventions, the long beard and the morris dancing, that is :-)
I just thought i firmly quash that misrepresentation of a fine body of men and women before it got off the ground :-)
Paul gate wrote in message ...
It's true that normal people are admitted into the ranks as well, I got in, well if you can call me normal. To use a quote "I like having low self esteem".
It's good to be able to blend in with the rest of the camra types, perpetuating myths, walking past people going "red barrell" even though they discontued the stuff long before I started drinking. Being part of people who society may see as "different".
Bettster
Bettster wrote in message ...
LOL.
a
That's the one that's really tough on the female members. One did impress a selection committee by her knowledge of Goldings hops, and by her ingenuity in growing her beard in an unusual place. Several committee members had to be brought round with barley wine after she showed it to them.
Bettster will be unavailable for a while. Quite a long while. For further information see http://www.camra.org.uk/
Martin.
"Bettster" wrote:
Okay. Would one of you Brits clue this Yank in as to what camra is?
Thanks in advance.
Jon Armstrong The Space Ranger Graveyard gives one a unique outlook on life. A dark one.
[email] wrote in message ...
Briefly (What? Me?): A successful pressure group founded and supported by people who enjoy beer and ale brewed using only natural ingredients, continuing fermentation in the cask it's served from; who aren't willing to see it replaced entirely by a cheaply-made product not meeting those criteria. Who choose not to obey the conglomerates' marketing departments, and as a result are portrayed by some as morris-dancing starry-eyed unkempt bearded loonies in sandals and hand-knitted sweaters[1]. The CAMpaign for Real Ale.
See URL: http://www.camra.org.uk
A pleasure!
Martin.
[1] No disrespect implied to people who enjoy morris dancing, or have a beard, or wear sandals or hand-knitted sweaters. 8-)
Martin Sylvester wrote in message ...
. Who choose not to obey the conglomerates' marketing departments,
I think the less said about this stereotype the better. It is obviously incorrect.. I mean, how many Camra members actualy have beards, wear sandles and engage in Morris dancing? It can`t be more than fifty percent :-)
"Martin Sylvester" wrote:
So is this .org just for you Brits or can a Yank bearded loony join in the fun?
Jon Armstrong The Space Ranger
Have beard. Will travel.
[email] wrote in message ...
You'd be welcome! Camra presently has 500 American members. The sub is presently UKP18 pa ($29?) (there's a deal whereby two people at the same address can join for UKP21). That's UKP4 more than the UK members, to cover the additional costs of sending you the monthly newspaper. You can pay by credit card, and there's a form on the website you can print off, complete, and fax or post back (or you can phone + 44 1727 867201 and ask for the membership dept.). AFAIK they don't have a secure server for taking subs online.
HTH.
Martin.
Paul gate wrote in message ...
Years of study and countless nights of self-denial!
Ah, those long, long student nights, selflessly sampling real ales with no other reward than the satisfaction of learning for its own sake. Trekking to beer festivals motivated by nothing more than a love of knowledge. Buying the GBG just to support CAMRA's campaigning work. <keeps a straight face>
I suppose that if you enjoy real ale as I do (you'd never have guessed, I know), then you have to be alert to what the conglomerates are up to to turn a proud brewing heritage into a soulless industry that produces low-cost product and sells it at the maximum sustainable price. I want to pay for what's in my glass, not for a monstrous marketing budget, and I want to know that what's in my glass came out of the fields and the clouds, not the laboratory. I want to enjoy a beer brewed by someone who's passionate about beer, not something designed by a committee of accountants and marketeers and food technologists, and produced by automated factories with little human intervention.
And I like the taste.
Martin.
On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:57:03 -0000, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:
Hmm, sounds like american beer. American beer companies would rather spend large amounts of money on animated frogs than improving their bitter urine-colored swill. The worst of American beer doesn't even advertise. Milwaukee's Best, Pabst Blue-ribbon, Schlitz, and many others rely on rock-bottom pricing to move the product. I forgot the point I was going to make. I guess I'll stick with bourbon, I don't drink very often but when I do it's usually bourbon or rum. I guess that will be my point. Oh and something about how art tastes better than marketing.
Is that the only reason you drink beer? I would assume that the "fields and clouds" in your glass would also have it's merits buzzing through your brain and bloodstream.
One last thing. Last week the health report on my local news reported that alcohol, in moderation, could help prevent heart disease. Two days later they reported that chocolate has chemicals that help prevent tooth decay. I don't know what to think anymore.
[email] (Happydude) wrote:
For really good beer-flavored water, there's always Rolling Rock... it's yellow, it has alcohol, it even has bubbles! (But, alas, no taste.) One of my favorite beers is a haefeweitzen (sp??)-- it's a German type of beer that has some wheat in it, and is a milky blonde color, with harmless bits of debris in it ... very tasty, but tough to find. There are some nice local microbreweries around here that have actually won some awards for their brews. (One has an excellent Porter and also has an very crisp Pilsner-- it's tough to find a really good Pilsner anywhere in the US.) But in my college days, I remember quaffing my share of Milwaukee's Beast as we called it (hey, $1.99 a six pack!), as well as Schaeffer Light (*shudder*)-- vile beers both. The most inoffensive cheap beer of choice was Natural Light-- not really much of a beer, but it'd get you a little buzz with your food. <g>
Scariest Beer I ever drank-- Russkoye, bottled in Kiev. It was a bright yellow beer that kinda glowed-- maybe it was bottled a little *too* close to Chernobyl? After the USSR broke up, though, it became tough to find, and, oddly enough, I started to feel *much* better...hmm.... Runner-up, Busch Beer-- in law school, the SBA would always buy a keg of it for LS social events, and there was something in it that always made my mouth break out in blisters! (No, I wasn't such a lush that I'd drink it just cuz it was free-- I stopped drinking the free stuff after it happened a second time.) Needless to say, since then I avoid most Anheuser-Busch beers like the plague. Second Runner-Up (Tie), a chocolate beer a friend of my brother-in-law made, and the vanilla ice cream stout float that a local bar serves as a dare drink. (My friend's wife chugged it down as a dare.) Eww, grrross! And, no, I never want to consider mixing the two. *shudder*
As for my other alcohol tastes, I enjoy the odd Hurricane-- hey, around here you might as well get used to 'em. <g> I also enjoy making a kahlua and amaretto chocolate milkshake about once every 6 months-- very tasty. But my favorite liquor drink is a cold Jack & Ginger--- fresh Ginger Ale, mixed with a shot of Jack Daniels' Tennesee Whiskey. Mmm.
Figures. Remeber "Sleeper," the Woody Allen movie where he wakes up in the future, and finds out that everyone is eating rare steaks because the nutrition experts discovered that vegetables were bad for you? Well, truth *is* stranger than fiction, I guess.
rich.
Mr. O'Neill: Let's pledge to make Daria's dream a reality!
Daria: You mean the one where people walking down the street burst into flames?
Mr. O'Neill: The coffeehouse!
In article , [email] (paperpusher) writes:
But I'll still drink it (rarely). It's local. Of course, I'll drink Iron City, too.
Gad! One of my least favorites was Duke, "The Prince of Pilsners." Ptooey!
Around here, the truly vile were Kohler, Straub (I understand they've gotten better, but I'm not taking any chances), and Schmidts. The inoffensive and cheap (and plentiful) was I.C. Light. Still is.
I loathe all A-B products, regardless of the predilections of various reptiles and amphibians to the contrary.
Mine? Not much, really. Lambrusco wine. Nothing else of consequence. The local favorite is the boilermaker. That's something you drink if you want to get drunk. And I can't really drink to get drunk. I don't like being drunk. Every time I've been drunk, at some point the thought will come waltzing through: "This is *really* stupid. I'm surrounded by drunks, and they're all acting like idiots. I'm drunk, so I'm probably acting like an idiot too. This does not qualify as having a good time. Get me out of here." And besides, I'm not good company when I'm drunk. Not combative, just dull.
Peace Kevin
Martin Sylvester wrote in message ...
Tireless dedicated Camra members..the world thanks you :-)
I entirely sympathise..I have little love for this beer (yet), but i can see why people want to keep something they like...I fear its demise is inevitable however. We tend to get the things that are convenient for producers to supply us with...not the things we want :-( There may be a few who will stick out for what they like, but marketing tells most people what they buy. At the moment these brewers have a bit of protectionism, but for how long?
"Bettster" wrote: [English culture, lagers vs ales]
*cough, cough* Ahem... Prior to the arrival of the mutant pigs I use to brew my own ales at home. Not having a thermal chamber at home I couuldn't truely lager the brew. If you pay attention to cleanliness, sterilization, proper recipes and materials, and take your time, you can produce some fine brews that are not sweet, skunky, overhopped messes. Once made a barley wine with a friend from work. Aged it for a year in the bottles. Puored as black as a moonless night with a half moon head as pale as a virgin's inner thigh. Kicked like a mule, too. Ran about 12% by volume.
Jon Armstrong The Space Ranger Graveyard gives one a unique outlook on life. A dark one.
[email] wrote in message ...
to
Stop your making me very thirsty :)
My homebrew efforts were more on the lines of nasty evil things that you pay people to drink. I think I had 3 successfull brews, well kind of successfull, 1 was great, 1 was ok if your mixed it 50% with dandelion and burdock, and the other was good because I was young and daft and didn't realise you shouldn't bottle barley wine in 2 litre pop bottles and then take 1 each person to a party. Though it was quite funny watching a mate leaning on a hedge with his jeans on fire with a well empty bottle and an oblivious smile.
Bettster
"Bettster" wrote:
Best part of home brewing. Watching the stuff sneak up on your friends. Being able to turn a vice into a hobby is also a plus.
Jon Armstrong The Space Ranger
"Look at it this way, babe, it keeps me out of the bars."
Paul gate wrote in message ... [...]
ale"
I agree that many imported "real" lagers (my contempt was directed at the insipid products of the UK lager factories) are fantastic. But I disagree with your comparison. The range of styles and flavours among Britain's 600 real ale breweries' 2000 beers is breathtaking.
If imported lager is to your taste, then of course you'll prefer it to other styles of beer like mild, bitter, IPA, porter, stout, old ale, winter ale, barley wine and so on. But, "Whip the floor with virtually all?" Not to my palate (and I'm not implying my palate is better than yours, just different). "Not very difficult?" I gasp in disbelief. I guess you've had some badly kept real ale.
The lifeless stuff that is pastuerised before kegging, chemically modified, and then livened up with injected gases at the point of dispense, and sometimes deceptively dressed up to look like a real ale, needs no skill other than plugging in to the dispense system; whereas keeping a real ale in good condition, and knowing at what point in its life cycle to serve it, is a skill not possessed by everyone who sets themself up as a real ale landlord. Each year some pubs are deleted from the Good Beer Guide for poor beer, as a result of inadequate cellar skills. (nb not the Good Pub Guide - the GBG selects entries by voting among CAMRA members, the GPG, I've been told, accepts payment from pubs who appear in it).
If you've had real ales that even come close to your description, they've been ruined by poor cellar skills. A badly kept real ale can be horrible. It's happened to me, about four times in the last three years, when I've been out for a drink in a pub I didn't know and wasn't recommended by someone clued up on real ale; and each time I've taken the beer back to the bar to be replaced. I usually pack the Good Beer Guide when I'm travelling, to avoid this scenario!
The keg stuff, whether lager or beer, is a consistent product of modern food technology, like sliced white bread and pot noodles, designed for long shelf life and supported by massive marketing budgets. It's consistently not to my taste though; but I imply no criticism of those who prefer it.
I vote for real ale!
Martin.
Martin Sylvester wrote in message ...
I don`t like the factory lagers either...but at least they won`t land you with some kind of peculiar blood poisioning
Well its an interesting explanation...I would like to think that what was presented before me, the few times i have wavered from a course based on my own painfull experience, was more the result of accident than design, I have a sneaking suspician however that this beer is supposed to taste orrible, that real-alers pride themselves on the "orribleness" of the beer they are capable of drinking...They all watch each others faces...to see who will wince first :-)
But Martin, thats how it actualy reaches the customer most of the time, that *is* the product they are offering. I have never tasted a pint of old peculiar that was even nearly drinkable in an "emergency"...
A freind of mine uses the same thing Are you a member of CAMRA?
Old thumper, Bishops tipple, Bisops finger, Old peculiar Old thumper,....Yuk!
Duf beer yum yum :-) ....
Paul gate wrote in message ...
Fear not, the dead rat thing's a myth made up to scare overseas visitors! Hasn't been used for years, except in cider.
orrible,
<Chuckle> "Leg it lads, we've been rumbled." <g>
Seriuosly though, how many out of the 2,000 real ales brewed in Britain have you tasted?
Maybe because you don't like strong ales, or the dark, malty taste of a roasted ale, or that hint of liqourice flavour! When I say, "Strong ale," I'm referring to the beer's style, not just its alcohol content. Try an IPA, or a summer ale, or a best bitter. I do like OP, BTW, but it's by no means the first choice of every real ale drinker, just as not every wine drinker likes claret.
Did you say you enjoyed London Pride? Good choice. It's won a CAMRA award. If you like that beer, try others of that style; there will be subtle differences; some you'll like less, some you might like more!
London Pride is a "Best Bitter." Other beers of this style include Adnams Extra, Brakspear Special Bitter, Caledonian 80/-, Cheriton Best Bitter, City of Cambridge Hobsons Choice, Dark Tribe Galleon, Everards Tiger, Exe Valley Dobs Best Bitter, Goff's Jouster, RCH Pitchfork, Rooster Scorcher, Taylor's Landlord, and Whitbread Castle Eden Ale.
Don't let the Real Ale poseurs and the beer snobs put you off real ale! Some people seem to have a desire to show off how much they enjoy a beer that's an acquired taste; you try it, and hate it; they feel superior. Next time, ask them how they'd say a pint of Taylor's Landlord differed from Everards Tiger (read the GBG and taste them both first). <g>
[of good beer ruined by bad keeping]
Yes! If it weren't for CAMRA we'd all be drinking Watney's Red Barrel! <shudder>
Calm down, Homer!
Martin.
Martin Sylvester wrote:
But pot noodles and sliced white bread taste good!
Bettster wrote:
I think: lager very bad, real ale nasty but not as bad as lager. But I'm not really used to drinking either of the two; my friends won't go in pubs, and we mostly drink red wine at home.
I'll go with the latter on that one.
Beer? Oh, like Coors, right? I got confused with all this talk about lagers. I mean, what do lumberjacks have to do with beer, other than that they drink a lot of it?
Eric Stevenson wrote in message ...
If the coors you get is the same as the coors here than coors <> beer. Coors = "premium lager" in UK speak.
Bettster
Eric Stevenson wrote:
Huh?
On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:05:11 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:
Now I know just how different American and Brittish English are.
Explaining a joke always takes the fun out of it, but since it didn't work in the first place...
A lumberjack is a guy who cuts down trees for a living. Also known a logger, which sounds similar to lager when spoken. Coors beer is known, even in America, as being not good.
The point of all this was to present myself as an American-beer drinking American, who doesn't even know what lager is. Note to self: fewer US cultural references in jokes to chaps from Britain.
Eric Stevenson wrote in message ...
that
We're slow over here :)
Coors is regarded as poor quality? That's interesting as over here it attracts a price premium in bars and is marketed as if it is a quality product.
It really makes you think. Bettster
"Bettster" wrote:
eww! y'all are seriously getting ripped off! Coors is like making love in a canoe... (insert punchline here.)
rich
Mr. O'Neill: Let's pledge to make Daria's dream a reality!
Daria: You mean the one where people walking down the street burst into flames?
Mr. O'Neill: The coffeehouse!
Tarvok wrote in message ...
Huh?
Martin Sylvester wrote in message ...
There is no such thing as English cultural life. We have no culture! Apart from football and the class system, that is... Oh and of course, morris dancing :-)
Martin Sylvester wrote:
Do women in other parts of the country not sit around drinking cold milky tea? Do men not drink pints and pints of lager and then vomit everywhere? These two things are what I dislike most about the English. I know that not all English people do these things, but at some stage in their lives, most English people do one of them. If you have to drink tea, you can drink tea that isn't cold and doesn't have skin on the top. If you have to get drunk enough to vomit, you can get drunk on something that a) doesn't make you really fat, b) tastes OK, and c) makes you properly drunk before it makes you vomit. :)
I don't particularly mind lager, actually. It's much better than Retsina. I certainly wouldn't walk five miles to avoid having to drink lager! :) I just think it's really stupid when people drink lager to get drunk. There are more pleasant and efficient ways of getting drunk!
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
Hear, hear. That sort of filth masquerading as tea wouldn't be tolerated in t'North, I can tell thee!
I did once live in London for a while (doesn't everyone at some time?), and there were two places I could rely on for a spot-on cup of tea. One was an hotel with high ceilings, massive gilded mirrors in the lounge, more stars than my planisphere, and a room rate that meant I could have afforded about 0.05 of a room for a night; but they did not rip you off if all you wanted was a pot of tea in the lounge. The other was a stand-up market porters' caff near (ISTR) Smithfield meat market. I thought they were each so good because the first had a world-class reputation to uphold, and in the second the customers would not be inhibited about expressing their displeasure: a member of staff who served a bad cup of tea would soon have been wearing it.
(Reality check: we're talking about tea in the Daria ng? Yep, seem to be awake.)
Martin.
One could probably make similar statements about any other place. Theodore Sturgeon once said something along the lines of "99% of everything is crap." It was in reference to writing, but I think it also applies to cultures and people as well. Not that I'm proposing that there is a group of elite people who are immune to this. It is (in my opinion) an inescapable fact that we spend the vast majority of our lives in routine, trivial, or animal activities. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it isn't exactly glorious either.
lalaLAlala
Eric Stevenson wrote:
Yeah, that's true, I guess, but why does England seem to believe that this rule does not apply to it?
That's human nature. It's all very easy to say "Yeah I'm in the 1% that's not crap all the rest of you are crap" even though that's not what it means. Nationalism exists everywhere and taken to extremes is absurd, but ya gotta remember everywhere's the same.
You want to talk about snobby Americans in comparison ... scary really. The scariest bits being the idea that we're better than everyone because we can blow them up with ICBMs and such.
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
can blow them up with ICBMs and such. << Dagny
Don't be so harsh on the British. They have SLBM's and free-fall nuclear bombs, after all, and THEY think it makes them special too... ;-)
Tribal loyalty? I know plenty of Americans who think that the US is the greatest country in the world, in terms of wealth, technology, culture, and anything else. Most of them have never been to another country, or even studied one.
"Me good. You bad."
In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:
Hm...since I'm not a Brit I can't answer that...but it does sound like Britain has more in common with Texas than I thought. OK...comparison time:
Apparently Britain has this huge national obsession with football. Texans have this huge statewide obsession with American football. Apparently people in Britain like to go to pubs and "get drunk on lager". Texans like to hang out in bars and honky tonks (well, a lot of them do, really) and drink massive quantities of beer.
If that's the way Britain really is, it'll feel like I never left home then! LOL. Except...I seriously doubt people in pubs pump money into the jukebox to listen to country/Tejano tunes and then immediately go and start line dancing or doing the cumbia.
Well, speaking for me I think I know you a little, but not like as if I'd known you forever. I think you'd know yourself best, seriously. Just gotta look inside (don't worry, your interior self won't bite!).
p.s.: I've checked out your website and think it's fantastic. OK if I add a link to it on this site I'm working on? Preview coming shortly.... :)
deena lissa
"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?
deena lissa wrote:
No, there's no country songs or line dancing, thank God!
I'm afraid it will. I spent about 12-13 years "being myself". Then I ended up that weird girl that nobody talks to (there's one at every school, I think) because by that age I'd turned into such a bloody psychopath nobody wanted anything to do with me. I can hide the parts of me that I don't like, pretend they aren't there, try to destroy them, whatever, and have a much better life.
Thanks. :)
Yeah, of course you can. I don't mind people linking to my site, why would I? :)
That's the kind of thing I like to hear. I'm tired of that 'just be yourself' crap that people like to spout. If myself was so great, I wouldn't have had to start pretending in the first place. Human beings are social animals and need social contact. Unfortunately, the ones that don't fit in have to change or suffer, or both.
Eric Stevenson wrote:
Thank you! Someone agrees with me, finally!
Tarvok wrote:
I have never encountered anyone from any of those places. I met a girl from Taiwan once. I think they'd just be called Oriental. But the chances are that unless an Oriental-looking person tells you otherwise, they are Chinese. :)
endless, nameless wrote:
Round these parts, "Oriental" is considered an antiquated word, the sort of word your grandparents would use. Hearing its use evokes the same feeling the word "negro" does (i.e.: "Has that person been living under a rock for the past 20 years?"). "Asian" has taken over (which only makes sense, as "Oriental" literally means "Eastern", and you generally fly west from the U.S. to get to Asia).
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
make GEORYN disappear to reply
"'Thin Thighs For Your Man.' But I don't *like* men with thin thighs" --Daria
N.P.:"Jede Stunde"- K a r a t / D e r b l a u e P l a n e t
I mean, Indians - who are from the Indian Subcontinent- are Asians, but the Chinese who make up /most/ of East Asia are not? Enlighten this poor ignorant colonial, please? << Cappadocius
This is why "Asian" is even stupider than most politically correct terms. It covers too much territory (literally!) If you said "Oriental" everyone would know what you meant, but for some incomprehensible reason that's supposed to be a no-no.
Sincerely Yours, Jordan
paperpusher wrote:
Perhaps a couple of them are very short, like a minute or so.
Aren't Sifl and Olly sock puppets? I guess you don't watch it, then! :)
In article , [email] wrote:
I think you missed the fact that Chester was quoted in Paperpusher's sig... He just happens to think that S&O are real people.
--- John Berry
Jeg7777 wrote:
Oh, no, I watch it (although I don't like the new format of the show, and I usually have Aikido on M, T, and W nights) -- and I love it, just so long as they don't sing broadway songs. It's the show tunes that always make me go fetal. <g> Oh, and BTW, my 4th grade sock puppet looked a little like Sifl-- only not as well done. <g>
rich
"How can we be lying if we're on television?" -- Olly.