A Thought

I was in gym class yesterday, and had the pleasure of playing volleyball with the massive apathy present in the Daria opening sequence. We play "elimination" where the player who messes up the play has to sit down, and the team who runs out of players loses. Amazingly, I ended up the last player left on my team twice, despite not moving from my spot and waiting for the ball to come towards me so I'd be eliminated.

However, more to the point, what would Daria do- no, let me rephrase that. What would Daria's course of action be if the ball were to come right towards her? She can't pull a sly, apathetic stick her hand out after the fact sort of move. Does she play it? Does she let it hit her? Move out of the way in some awkward manner (it'd have to be awkward, because by time you realized it's coming right at you, it'd be on top of you)?

I think this is a deeper philosophical question than it looks, because it cuts to the heart of Daria's unreality. All her victories and hilarious actions depend on the precise positioning of Fate (by the writers) so that she can do whatever it is she's going to do.

What if Brittany doesn't drop the bear? What if her contacts don't overirritate her? What if Val isn't a hideous caricature of a real human being, thus making her an easy target? What if people get pissed off and kick the crap out of her? What if O' Neill doesn't allow them to cut out of the Self-Esteem class early, which seems very odd to me? Most schools have strict requirements about such things.

These aren't the best examples, but I'm kinda going on the fly here.

And maybe I'm just showing my anti-darialike slant, scorning those who claim to be "like Daria" in any way, shape, or form, conscously or unconsciously.

Anyone care to comment? ___ Kyle

Trying is the first step towards failure

Cubs Win! Cubs Win! The Good Lord wants the Cubs to win!

Heh, I wish we did that. Problem is that in my PE class there's 8 people there on a good day, so it wouldn't be long til one team ran out of players... <g>

You should try moving towards the ball, puching everyone else out of the way, and then doing something really stupid to get yourself eliminated. ;)

Good idea... <g>

Very, erm, profound, if that's the right word.... I feel a need to stress here that it is only a cartoon, but I guess it'd be pretty boring if we didn't start up these hypothetical discussion things... I'd probably make an attempt at making a less pointless comment now, only the effort would probably make my head hurt even more... <g>

Kyle wrote in message ...

Pleasure. Gym class. <pop> "We are experiencing a temporary fault. Please wait while circuit breakers are reset...."

The last shall be first, or something. 8-) Isn't it good to see the gym class modelling a situation that punishes the active and rewards those who just wait around while the others muck things up? A valuable lesson for life. ;:-) Satyagraha in sport - next on SSW!

Why on earth would you want to do that? ;:-)

I'd go for a tokenistic "attempt" to play the ball.

Ah, yes. Are you asking "How credible are the plotlines in _Daria_?"

What if Andrea doesn't chose to hang out with Daria & Jane - oh, hang on, she doesn't. 8-)

The number of *un*explored situations outnumbers those that the writers have chosen to go with. Creative work, ISTM, has as a central activity the making of choices, and the rejected ideas (may? or usually?) outnumber those that make it to the finished work of art. The writers' selection will be of the extraordinary rather than the mundane, because art is (I contend - argument invited) at home with the extraordinary. Even things that seem mundane: landscapes offer a picture of something not ordinarily accessible to the viewer (is that why they were so popular when travel was for the privileged few?); even the pictures of pigs and horses once commissioned by the landed gentry - who certainly had the chance to look at a pig or a horse when they wanted to - are of their *prize* pigs and *champion* horses. Warhol used Campbell's soup labels, yes, but he did something extraordinary with them.

In dramatic art too (I contend that cartoons like Daria are a form of drama), it's not the mundane but the extraordinary that wins our attention and so is chosen by the writer. The fact that Mr O'Neill was taken in by Daria and Jane's record response to the course tells us something about him as well as something about them. The fact that it's thought A Good Idea to have them address the school assembly tells us something about Lawndale High. Sure, in *ordinary* circumstances.... But I don't think that the _Daria_ team have gone beyond extraordinary and set up shop in Incredible Land.

Martin.

No I think the question is rather, how viable would Daria be in real life, ie. is her character a success only in those specific situations, or would a person who acted like Daria do ok in other scenarios too?

Like, Alli once commented that if Daria had been her younger sister, she'd have beaten the crap out of her, as she's basically an irritating of person. We might surmise that she'd quite likely get bullied at school in real life too, certainly I used to know a boy like that and a lot of bullies would pick fights with him; and although some of us got along with him ok, no-one really considered him a close friend as his holier-than-thou and I'm-cleverer-than-you attitudes, which were essentially the same as Daria's, got up people's noses. Daria is fortunate enough to be amongst pretty tolerant people on the whole. We find her likeable as we're outside observers looking in, but we might not like her IRL unless she decided she liked us and so chose not to turn her acid tongue on us.

Having said that, given that she's pretty bold, resilient and resourceful, she might well get through life ok and make something of herself. As she herself notes, acting the way she does is just her way of coping with what she considers to be a pretty loathsome world full of stupid people. If you're misanthropic anyway, then being like Daria might inject a bit of fun into life and enable you to cope with an otherwise unbearable existence. Let's face it, it beats blowing your brains out.

-Shez.

Shez said:

Keep in mind that Daria, like the other people in her world, are exaggerated by dramatic purposes. Someone basically like her could do about as well as her, I'd suppose. People basically like her do, IRL.

Bullying: I could see this, but remember that Daria is a very strong-willed person, who keeps her cool in a crisis, and who wears big heavy boots. People fitting this description are not all that safe to bully. (Hint: maybe this is *why* Daria started wearing the big heavy boots).

Also remember that Daria could probably outwit any but the smartest bullies. (Someone who felt wronged once (1) set a big stupid lug on me to "teach me a lesson" ... I distracted him by starting a conversation with him on the relative merits of various candy bars and left him standing there confused). Remember how she played mind games with Beavis and Butthead for years in Highland?

(1) My dog got her dog pregnant.

As you may have noticed, Daria *does* alienate, push away or frighten off many potential friends. Note her distant relationships with Brittany and Jodie, and her lack of frienship with Andrea.

One of the ways Daria will have to mature is learning when to tone down her sarcasm. Though part of the reason why she is so sarcastic is that she is scared, deep down, by what she perceives as dangerous irrationality and hypocrisy all around her.

Well, this is self-selecting. The intolerant people never get close enough to her to register on her radar ... why would they willingly expose themselves to her sarcasm?

Remember when she alienated *Jane* in "See Jane Run" ... ? I think that the depression she felt afterwards may have been her first real clue as to why constant sarcasm is not always the best social tactic.

An intelligent person, who was secure in her own self-image, and who recognized her potential, might choose to ignore the insults and make the effort to get to know her. To an extent, this is what Jodie has done.

Someone sufficiently amused by her sarcasm and with a similarly wicked sense of humor might become her friend and be seen as an ally against a mostly hostile world. This is essentially what Jane has done.

Unfortunately for Daria, most people around her are neither as appreciative and secure as Jodie nor as wickedly humorous as Jane, and so she is frequently finding herself friendless. Daria will have to learn how to discern when it is a good and when a bad idea to unleash her sarcasm. Part of growing up.

I think Daria will eventually learn how to control her cynicism and sarcasm, harnessing it for her own protection and benefit without alienating potential friends. If she succeeds, she will get to participate in society at a higher cultural, intellectual, and social level than most of the conformists around her. If she fails, of course, she won't have a very happy life.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:34:37 +0100, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from Shez , and it said:

Two ways of saying the exact same thing. :)

Had Daria gone to most high schools (at least on my side of town), she likely would've been seriously looked down upon. However, she goes to an exclusively suburban high school, and the only visible opposition (on screen, that is) is the fashion club, who just raise their noses at her presence. The others are very considerate, intelligent girls (Jodie), girls who are so rediculously happy and oblivious nothing can get to them (Brittany), and guys who are too stupid to tie their own shoes, let alone percieve an insult (Kevin).

Tarvok said:

She is at Lawndale, too. However, most of those who "look down upon" her don't interact with her, and thus they are irrelevant to the plot.

As for direct physical threats:

1) That's less an issue with girls than with guys, and 2) IMHO Daria can handle herself in a rough situation better than you'd think. Remember the combat boots.

The Fashion Club is important to the plot for two reasons:

• As the opposite of what Daria represents,
• Quinn's a member.

Otherwise, they would get even less exposure than Andrea.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Also, they're important as a contrast to Quinn. As self-absorbed and deceitful as Quinn can be, she's actually a saint compared to them. Also Quinn does have sort of a conscience.

Jeff

Jeff Morris said:

Well, Sandi's especially imprtant as a contrast to Quinn. Tiffany's an idiot, and Stacy's simply neurotic. Sandi's the evil genius of the FC.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Martin Sylvester" wrote:

Therefore we get "Oedipus Rex" rather than "Oedipus Removes A Rather Nasty Wine Stain On His Favorite Coral Toga With Club Soda, Followed By A Vigorous Rinse Of Said Toga In A Nearby Stream, And A Nice Drying Of The Same Toga On A Clean Rock In Direct Sunlight, But Not For Too Long, Because Sunlight Bleaches Out The Nice Coral Color Of His Favorite Toga, A Play In 3 Cycles: Wash, Rinse, Then Dry."

sarcastically, but not misanthropically, rich.

Quinn: I can't be a brain! My friends will hate me!

paperpusher wrote in message ...

have

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<g> Brilliant illustration, rich! And _Hamlet, Prince of Denmark_, not _Hamlet, the Bloke Who Runs an Apple Stall on York Market_ ("To have a nice walk now, or take a nap and have a walk later, that is the question."). _Seven Against Thebes_, not _Seven Go For a Picnic_. _The Twilight of the Gods_, not _Some Chap in Hamburg Puts a New Candle in His Candle Holder_.

Martin.

In article , "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

I don't think this is the thrust of Kyle's questions. The way I read it is that the details of Daria's life always seem work out in a way for her to act in her default manner of sarcasm and alienation. If Daria's contacts weren't hurting her eyes then she wouldn't have had an excuse not to wear them (which ended up giving her some time to think about how wearing contacts is 'vain'). If that whole situation started out smoothly, she may not have been inclined to find a reason to get out of it.

Mike Quinn [email] "...the race is long, and in the end it's only with yourself..."

Mike Quinn said:

People *make* more of their own lives than is always apparent, even to them. Daria seeks out situations which enable her to act effectively in her trademarked manner, and avoids situations which don't. Being exceptionally intelligent, she is exceptionally good at doing this as she is good at doing other things.

Subconsciously people try to stay within the familiar; one must make a conscious effort of will to change one's circumstances. I'll give you an example from Daria's life ...

Daria could resolve the whole Trent thing one way or another in a fairly short time ... days to weeks. All she'd have to do is seek out rather than avoid Trent, have more conversations with him, and let him know how she felt about him. Trent would then either accept her or reject her. End of story.

Ah, but either outcome would involve changes, and changes into situations where cynicism and sarcasm wouldn't be adequate tools any more. If Trent said no, she'd no longer be able to focus her sexual energies on him; she'd have to decide how to behave towards more plausible objects of her affection. If Trent said yes ...

Then she'd have to deal with a real, romantic relationship for the first time in her life. If she tried to be cynical and sarcastic about it, she would only be ensuring its failure and the hurting of both people involved. She's probably smart enough to realize this, but that doesn't mean that she has a clue as to the right way to handle herself in the situation.

She does understand what her goal would be ... a permanant monogamous relationship. In that, she's slightly more advanced than many of her contemporaries, but this is largely due to her good fortune in coming from an unbroken home. On the other hand, I don't think that behaving like Helen would be a good way to deal with Trent.

So it's easier to simply move along in her old rut.

One of the ways in which Jane is a very valuable friend to Daria is that she doesn't *let* Daria stay in her rut, she actively goads her to expand her interest in the world. Not just where Trent is concerned, but in many other aspects of life, ranging from the trivial to the more important. By being someone who Daria respects who is *not* as introverted, Jane draws Daria out of her shell.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

In article ,

I'll agree with this because I'm like this. However, even the most adept at this game will occasionally be put in a situation that they would like to avoid but can't. Arguably, Daria acts in such a way that she ends up acting sarcastic (which is her 'normal' state) even when she is forced into a situation not conducive to that attitude.

You don't know how true that rings for me (and probably many others), right now.

Right, that's true. Jane and Daria are very complementary in personality. And Jane can be a great influence on Daria in this respect.

I'm still wondering how Jordan got all of that out of one two-line statement :)

Mike Quinn said:

:)

Because it applies to me too. I used to think I was afraid of failure, I eventually learned I was afraid of success. Failure's easy to handle, it means the end of whatever you were attempting. Success, on the other hand, sends you up to a whole new level of the videogame called Life.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

[email] (JBassior) wrote:

BTDT m'self... the scariest part about succeeding for me, though, is not knowing what to expect next, and whether I'm going to have enough of "it" (whatever "it" is) in me to face on the Next Big Challenge.

You're right-- failing's easy to handle. (It's usually followed by moping, self-pity, assignment of blame, more moping, and lowered expectations.) Succeeding? That's even tougher to handle. Just look at the pile of one-hit-wonder bands that now litter the discount bins. Even some bands that could put together a few good albums and avoid some of the more obvious pitfalls still managed to go down in flames in a few years.

I'd quote some of my favorite poetry right now, but my Brick vol. 2 is downstairs, and my legs hurt after tonight's Aikido class-- lots of hanmi handachi work-- it's tough on the knees and ankles. (But still worth it.) It's the line about the difference between the man who hits his very low mark every time not being half as alive as the man who sets his mark for the stars and misses it by an inch, or something. :)

rich.

Jake: Who do you want in an emergency? Superman, or your *damn inner child?*

In article ,

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That is such an interesting way of looking at things. Success for me has always meant "you'll be followed up soon by your parents increasing their expectations for you and you'll collapse from attempting to reach this new height". Failure, while being followed by harsh rebukes from my parents and swift discipline, is a little easier because it means "their expectations of you will decrease and it won't be as strugglingly [that even a word?] hard for you to reach this new plateau". Although I don't know whether I would rather collapse from sheer exhaustion or cringe ceaselessly as my parents remind me of failure. Lesser of two evils, that kind of thing.

deena lissa I REALLY need those new "Daria" eps to come in soon...or a whole new outlook on some already-out ep

"No, no, no, don't believe anything you hear. Get the real shit from me." -- Simon LeBon, "Behind the Music" (VH-1) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

In article ,

I guess my experience is a combination of all of this. Success has always caused conflict for me. On the one hand, there's the excitement and content in knowing something was accomplished, on the other hand, there is the feeling that the bar has been raised and that there will be more expected because of the success. However, I am sometimes at the point where I feel so afraid to fail that I am paralyzed from doing anything to succeed. It might not actually be fear that causes that, but it still is an odd sort of paradox.

I'm trying to find time to review the first six episodes of season three as a block. If only I can get this done before the second half of season three gets started... I had some other ideas, too, but I forgot to write them down and, well, forgot them.

Deena Lissa inscribed in fleeting electrons:

Yes, that's how life is in general. People expect more of those who have succeeded at something than those who have failed. It's why the temptation to just drift is so seductive.