Did you all want to talk about something?

Everyone seems so bored, I'll post my thoughts and we can get the fire ignited on season three again.

minimal spoilers, nothing specified...

I finally got those copies of season 3 that I begged for a couple weeks back (the "i'll do anything" post, which you all thought was so darn funny - blah!). The episodes aren't as funny as the first 2 seasons, but they are written better in terms of character definition. I feel I know the little intricacies of each character a lot better.

Lane Miserables stands out as the most memorable for me because of the scene with Daria watching Trent leave. The song that played just happened to be a favorite of mine (and since I didn't actually know what the song was, I looked it up on lawndale.net and finally found out after all this time. whoohoo!) and I think it fit perfectly. It showed so much lust, depression, insecurity, confusion, and frustration on Daria's part. Daria obviously doesn't change her expression too often, but the sequence was so effective in showing her emotions that I was taken aback by it. I rarely get so affected by a TV scene so strongly and I've been playing it over and over.

Through a Lens Darkly got me all tingly because I like glasses on girls. Daria taking her glasses off for the first time in the mirror really exuded intense emotion for just a few seconds. She didn't look as good when she walked around school without them on, though. Daria definitely needs her glasses to look more attractive. And we all know that even though Brittany is a total twit, she is a sensitive girl who actually does have genuinely good feelings and intentions (although her intelligence, attitude, and clique-following stops her potential), and the end of the episode certainly showed it moreso.

It occurs to me after watching Old and the Beautiful that Quinn really is a good person, she's just trapped by high school peer pressure. I tend to think her kind of person would get pretty far in the world simply by sheer charm and moral intent, although at this point she's horribly misled by the horrors of high school cliques. The earlier episode of Daria doing the Quinn documentary showed that, too - but again, season 3 is shining more and more light onto the characters.

Watching the emotional roller coaster that is season 3, Jane's Addition and Through a Lens definitely put Daria in her place as a normal teenage girl trying to live in America. After seeing her get so upset in those two really eps define her for me a lot. She's smart, but not immune to the world she attempts to live with using advanced logic and sarcasm. I realized I really knew people like her. The first 2 seasons didn't have as emotional scenes, I thought. It certainly set her up pretty well, and then season 3 really defined the rough edges.

I really didn't like Depth Takes a Holiday. It seemed like bad fan fiction to me. I understand Daria is a cartoon, but it threw me off, and I think jerking the audience around like that is always a bad idea. The jokes were funny, but the whole episode bothered me. Lawndale Files kinda bothered me, too. The characters acted slightly off and it seemed like an episode of a kid's cartoon, what with it's formulaic plot. I kinda liked some of the more subtle humor in it (such as Mr. O'Neil's strange behavior), but it just lacked in many ways. Am I to understand that these were written by the same person?

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Buster Logan said:

She's going to have to make a choice soon, between doing what she knows to be right and being popular. This was foreshadowed in "Daria Dance Party", in the scene where her dance partners try to grope her on the floor.

"Monster" also demonstrated that Daria really does love Quinn. When push came to shove she could not genuinely humiliate Quinn.

Daria's good, but she's not perfect. Which makes her all the more real.

I think this one was a dream, pure and simple.

Yes ... not the best episode. Though it had its moments.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

In article , [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

The thing is, I'm still not sure if this is supposed to be a "real" episode or a fantasy episode. The characters were acting pretty off-the-wall with so many goofy plotlines running alongside each other, I don't like to think of this as a canonical episode. Maybe the producers recently decided they wanted to do one fantasy episode per season (which I don't mind) but since they had already missed the chance to do that with seasons 1 & 2, they did 3 fantasy eps (if you count "TDF") for season 3 so they'd be caught up. At least, that's what I'd like to think, so that we can expect 1 and not 3 fantasy episodes in each coming season. --Tice Rust:-- The other Y2K problem.

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:37:43 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from Tice Rust , and it said:

Well, I haven't seen it, but I did read the plot synopsis, and it didn't seem terribly unreasonable, though perhaps a bit contrived. After all, there weren't any _real_ aliens (not even illegal immigrants; DeMartino wasn't one). Everybody gets hit by paranoia every now and then (though the whole point is that _everyone_ was hit by at one time, which was what drove this episode). No leprichans or holidays or anything; why not?

Yes, DTaH was a fantasy episode. But I really don't see D! as one. Yes, the format was different. It was a musical format, which is just as legitimate a storytelling meduim as any other. The story wasn't all that incredible, or even that out of character. Daria was as cynical as ever, though the storm worried her a little. Helen was running as ragged as usual, Quinn alternated between obsession with appearance and caring about her family, as usual, and Jake was run amok, like usual. Treant displayed concern for his sister, which isn't unexpected. Kevin was stupid but strong, Brittney was... Brittney. Plotwise and characterwise, there's nothing wrong with this episode. The format is different. But the musical format is no more fantastic than a cartoon is "just for kids," right?

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Buster Logan said:

What she does is subtle. She doesn't cry or anything ... that would not be in character for Daria ... but she *hugs herself*. A bit of body language which reveals her loneliness and need.

Brittany really cares about Daria and has consistently (all the way back to "Invitation") tried to get other people to like Daria too. I think Daria knows this and reciprocates. In the modelling episode, Daria watches with her usual detached amusement until Brittany is hurt by what's going on, then she acts to shut the fashion show down.

Quinn has morals; she's just ashamed to admit them because they aren't fashionable. Her morals occasionally come into conflict with the dictates of fashion, and she usually finds an excuse to behave honorably when this happens.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

On Sun, 21 Nov 1999 08:30:59 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from Buster Logan , and it said:

I certainly hope so. It's been too long since I've seen actual discussion of Daria. Then again, I'm not around enough to actually follow a thread. I could be wrong.

Still, I understand what Daria was going through. I'm not sure how many of us glasses wearers eventually take off our glasses and look in the mirror, but when it comes right down to it, I like the way I look without them. I don't know what others think, but I like it without glasses. I just can't stand the idea of putting anything right next to my eyeball, and besides, I shouldn't care how I look, right? ;p

And yeah, there's more to Brittany than there seems. You know, it's been too long since there was a crusade to convince people that a certain character is smarter than they seem. Anyone want to take the challenge with Kevin? ;p

Yeah, I'd feel sorry for her, but then again, she _is_ on top of things. Like she said, being attractive and popular is what she's _good_ at.

I feel more sorry for Stacy. Recently I was watching "Gifted" and saw that scene where she says, "I like you best out of the fashion club. And Sandi's my second best friend. And Tiffany's my third best friend. <pause> Quinn? Who do _you_ like best?" I was struck with a sense of horror as I remembered that _I_ had once said things like that! And _I'm_ a guy! It was sixth grade, and I can't help but think she'd be better off if she went through what I did: complete and total ostracision, resulting in a condition of actual friendlessness, which actually wasn't so bad once I was actually there (and not going through the process). I became quite flamboyant in high school as a result, and actually, people _liked_ the me that went out on a limb because he knew the fall doesn't kill him.

One can only hold the facade of complete social immunity for so long.

Never saw "The Lawndale Files" (damnit!). "Depth Takes a Holiday" is rediculously silly, and seems to completely go against the grain of the show. But, like you said, it is funny. Since I'm not overly concerned about the continuity (I enjoy it, but I'm not neurotic about it), I do enjoy it. But I still wonder what the writers were thinking.

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Droughts do that to a group :P But we've discussed our romantic crises, which is kinda like shipperdom, which loosely relates to Daria, ummm....

lol :) I actually look better with glasses on, as I have a fairly nice pair, and they suit me. But I would never go out with them; they're inconvienient and might fall off, etc.etc.

The horrors? It would seem to me that while Quinn is slightly misled by cliquedom, being the most popular girl in the school is hardly horrendous.

Exactly. She IS on top of things.

<Absurdly Contraversial Point> You know how we all agree that Trent kinda needs a smart-ish, but also considerate girl to "be good for him"? But we're divided on whether that girl should be Daria, with most of us, post -'Jane's Addition' and the first fantasy of 'Lane Miserables' saying it shouldn't? You know how Stacy would probably be far more free is she found some-one who wasn't really in a clique, but was still cool, prepared to be quite uncritical (unlike Daria) and well.. kinda innocent (hence the Ted - Stacy thing). You see where I could be going with this? Maybe, just maybe, y'know. I'm not sure about this at all. It was just a thought an' all.... </Absurdly Contraversial Point>

My high popularity/clique status changes from week to week in a complex way I can't be bothered to explain. Basically, I am a compulsive clique switcher. I can switch cliques at will, as I am considered amusing. I am considered amusing because people think I am weird. People think I am weird because I am not in a steady clique, even though I am popular. I am not in a steady clique, even though I am popular because I am a compulsive clique switcher. It kinda cycles like that :)

Yes. But people will still be believing you to be behind that facade years after it crumbles.

"Greg Pallis" wrote:

Not so absurd, but interesting nonetheless. The only problem is that Stacy would have to change her clique, as well as a few other details before it could happen. Who knows? Maybe, sick of being pursued by a puppy-dog-like Trent, Daria introduces him to Stacy halfway through season 4. ;-)

Maw, looks like we got us a clique-switcher! Get the gun! ;-)

When I was in HS, I was in about 4 or 5 cliques. It didn't make me *too* popular, just popular enough to be a Free Agent-- free to roam from clique to clique as necessary, without being forced to do "cliquey" things. (Well, okay, I did them anyway with the 3 different music cliques I was in, but that was voluntary.) It's a long story, and not really that interesting, come to think of it. ;-)

rich.

Quinn: I can't be a brain! My friends will hate me!

On Sun, 21 Nov 1999 08:30:59 GMT, Buster Logan wrote:

IMO, not necessarily. It's just the induced expectations - she doesn't look like Daria without them, which produces a 'wrongness' to the look. But if you saw it long enough, that would fade.

Unless you're a glasses-fetishist. I'm ambivalent on that aspect; glasses or no, both are good.

Agreed. Brittany does seem to actually like Daria, but there's a huge understanding gap there (not just in intelligence, but in values.)

I don't think she's trapped so much by the peer pressure itself, but by her own values (that word again...) She's shown herself strong enough to resist that pressure if she wanted to ("Quinn the Brain") but, in the end, she *doesn't* want to.

(Snip)

I'm not so much against the 'break' idea (ie having more 'cartoony' episodes) but I think the concept behind that one threw me. Could just be the fact that I don't like personifying most of the holidays as teens. Halloween, maybe; Guy Fawkes, tolerable. But Christmas? Gimme Jesus or Santa, not some skinny goof in a red suit... The musical was (IMO) a better idea.

wrote in message news:[email]...

look

Daria's look without glasses wasn't entirely unexpected. We'd seen her without glasses in "Quinn the Brain" of course. And the first time we saw her without her glasses was in "The Invitation" which was quite early on in the series. Obviously the creators were considering the Daria-without-glasses thing even then.

It's unreasonable to expect someone you know to always look the same. People with glasses do get contacts--for driving. And now people who wear glasses are getting surgical vision correction. Some people who wear glasses sometimes find their vision self-corrects spontaneously--usually people who are close to normal anyway. And some even wear glasses to make them smarter. I thought TALD was a perfect exploration of the whole subject of glasses--the whole Daria "thing." One of the best of series.

hmm... I got contacts a couple years ago. It was over the summer, so most people didn't suddenly see me without glasses, since it was over three months since they'd seen me at all. I like it. Except when one comes out and I have to put it back in in the Pizza Hut bathroom and these little kids are watching me and thinking this is really thrilling.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Dagny said:

"Mommy, why is the funny lady taking her eyes out?"

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

"R. K. Henry" wrote:

The one thing that makes me cringe more than putting contacts (or any other foreign objects) on my eyes is the thought of a laser burning my eyeballs. Grrr-oss. DEFINITELY "icky." Blecch.

I don't see any better with the glasses, nor do they do much to my "look," (if anything, they soften my scowl <g>), it's just that I'm lazy, I guess. 20 minutes struggling to put a Foreign Object in my eye vs. 5 seconds to put on my glasses... hmm... lesee, I can sleep an extra 20 minutes... No contest. ;-)

rich.

Jane: You're a twisted little cruller, ain't'cha?

On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 06:55:49 -0500, "R. K. Henry" wrote:

Unless they're animated... (BTW, kudos to Daria for stepping out of that stereotype at least once in a while...)

I did enjoy the episode, but from a different angle; I've never needed glasses myself, so much of that went right over me. But the whole 'wrestling with image' bit hit right home.

In article , [email] wrote:

I did think that Daria looked extremely attractive when she took them off the first time and subsequently whenever she faced the mirror. I think a straight on view of her face is what it might be for me, although I've noticed that the characters get drawn off-model regularly. I've seen the characters look great and then awful within the span of a few minutes. I do like glasses on girls an awful lot, but I don't need a girl to be wearing them to turn me on or anything. I think they could draw Daria just as pretty without the glasses if they used the right model.

I don't think breaking the universe logic is all that bad either, but there are some things that make me go, "eww", and that was one of those times. It seemed like whoever wrote that episode was too zealous a fan. Granted, it's a sign of creativity to break the rules, but some things just seem corny to me.

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[email] of Edmonton Community Network writes:

Guy Fawkes was definitely not a teen. He was 35 when he tried to blow up the Houses of Parliament and 36 when they hung him. I thought the idea of portraying him as a punk was bizarre. Mind you the whole episode was bizarre so maybe it did fit in, in a way. They had a young US president figure as well didn't they?

-Shez.

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:00:41 +0000, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from Shez , and it said:

Well, that was the idea. It wasn't _people_ being portrayed as teens, but _days_. And why? So Holiday Island can be "just like a high school," only "much worse." I can deal with one episode like this. I've never seen "The Lawndale Files," and I *refuse* to see D! as a "fantasy episode."

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Shez wrote in message news:[email]...

I think the writers aren't so much portraying Guy Fawkes as a teen, as personifying Bonfire Night ("Guy Fawkes Day") as a teen. The holiday, not the man. Burning your (supposed) enemy in effigy, which is the basis of Bonfire Night, doesn't seem to me to be such a mature activity. ;:-)

I think the punk thing is just an attempt at a recognisable British stereotype.

Very good point. I think that once the High School model was adopted for Holiday Island, it was a given that the Holidays (or most of them) would be teenagers. The St Valentine's Day cupid and the St Patrick's Day leprachaun(sp?) seemed a little older, but they were part of the HIHS community.

Btw, if ever you get a chance to visit Coughton Court, the historical displays and the video on the Gunpowder Plot are well worth viewing. I certainly learned a lot. I'd never before known that the secret service knew all about the plot, and actively (but covertly) promoted it. That's why the cellar suddenly came up for rent when the plotters were about to abandon the plot because tunneling under Westminster was proving impractical. The head of the service refused for days to see someone who wanted to report the plot: the informant was a Catholic, and in those days "Catholic saves Parliament" couldn't be an acceptable outcome! Since the head of service knew on which night and at what time he'd find a plotter in the cellar, he covertly helped the plot run its course so his service could intervene in dramatic fashion. Naturally, earning himself much gratitude.

Martin.

[1] URL: http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/scripts/wapis.isa/Handbook?app=NationalTrust&ACTION=PROPERTY&PropertyId=210

On Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:42:46 -0000, "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

So... they were faculty? Alumni?

That actually makes sense (er... relative to the episode, that is...) Faculty seeking out the truant students, or something like that.

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 00:49:56 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email], and it said:

Naw, they were just seniors. And I once new a guy who as a _sophomore_ was able to walk in, buy cigarrettes, beer, and porn, and walk out without being carded on a fairly regular basis.

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buster logan says:

I seem to be the only one who really enjoyed "Depth Takes a Holiday." There's nothing wrong with a deviation from reality now and again. However, I wouldn't want to see fantasy eps on a regular basis on Daria, tho' -- that's what shows like "Sabrina" are for. And even if you didn't like that episode, DTAH was _nowhere_ as bad as "The Lost Girls." (Note to anyone associated with creating or airing Daria: don't even THINK about making Val a recurring character. EVER.)

As for TALD: story of my life. I wear glasses because I cannot see well without them. Contact lenses & surgery have recently been ruled out as possibilities for me. Do I look good with glasses? Yup. Do I look better without them? Yes (so I've been told). Do I want to go around groping and squinting all the time for the sake of vanity? Uh-uh. Do I wish my eyesight wasn't deteriorating so I could drive at night again? You bet. Does Daria know how lucky she is to be able to drive, with or without glasses? Hmmm ....

Cricket

I must be insane, but I thought "The Lost Girls" was possibly one of the best Daria episodes EVER, but it seems most everyone hates it. Can anyone explain, or am I just a crazy person who dreams about Rudolph Giuliani making speeches to her Barb and Mike? Well, I am that, but why do you hate The Lost Girls? I thought it was a great parody and one of the greatest self-attacks since Monty Python (or, originally, Q: "This is an interruption to say this is an official BBC interruption")

I mean, everyone now- especially MTV- thinks they are just sooo revolutionary when they are really total conformists. It's like "We are all individuals!" and that's what it was all about.

I also that Val was an interesting character because she was extremely intelligent, really, she just took everything and totally emptied it of meaning and made it pointless for her readers, like she knew what existentialism meant and "this whole dual POV thing".

Woo hoo! I'm on topic! Well, except that Giuliani bit.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Dagny wrote:

the best

THERE ARE NO BAD DARIA EPISODES!

Some episodes are better than others, but they're all better than most TV. Which would you rather watch? "Daria"? or "Who wants to be a Moron?" with Regis Phibin.

On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:36:02 -0500, "R. K. Henry" wrote:

er... Actually, I watch both. Those two, plus the Buffy/Angel series, are the only tv I watch anymore.

Dagny said:

I liked it a lot.

Yes, you are :)

Yes. This started real early, btw, "hippies" were commercialized by the early 1970's, and the whole "hip" thing had been essentially emptied of meaning by 1975 or so.

meaning

Because she saw her whole purpose in life as conformity, her mind was essentially just a social tool. She was incapable of stepping back and looking at her situation objectively. All moral or practical considerations withered away before the need to Fit In.

Incidentally, she's what Quinn could become, if Quinn doesn't reform.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

In article , [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

And it was nice to see Quinn disillusioned by Val when she met her even recognizing she was too old for her bubble-gum-trendy outfit. I don't remember much else about this episode, since it's been a long time since I've seen it, but it was another good example of Quinn being disturbed by the attitudes of the fashion world.

--Tice Rust:-- The other Y2K problem.

Tice Rust said:

Also note that Quinn's flirtatious attitudes, as expressed by Val in adult romantic games, led to Val being abandoned and pregnant.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

[email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

You're pretty much on target about TLG-- it's a great ep. I think what drove a lot of people nuts, though, was Val's voice. Add to that the fact that she never would shut up... (cringe) ... it's a great story, like I said, but the voice... arrg... *whimper* ... make it stop!

rich

Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...

In article , [email] wrote:

extremely

of meaning

existentialism meant

Which was probably a big factor in why so many people, myself included, hated "The New Kid". In concept, the episode was not bad: Daria meeting someone even less affected by teen culture than herself, liking him, and then spoiling it by trying to introduce him to the outside world. But Ted's voice...UGH!! Not only stereotypically nerdy, which probably bugged me the most, but grating to boot! It ruined the episode for me.

Are you saying I'm...*shallow*? --Tice Rust:-- The other Y2K problem.

In article , [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

First, I want to say that if I were allowed to go back in time and unmake an episode, it would be DTAH. TLG is far and away better but still isn't half as good as the best ep's of the season. I do think that the premise was a good idea that was somewhat lacking in execution, meaning that Val could have been made twice as effective if she were made half as annoying. The character more than ruined the show for me - she didn't have to be constantly annoying.

That was one of the good parts, and her pettiness should have ended it, it jsut didnt seem right to me.

Close enough ;)

Well, my god, if you're looking for a character to LIKE, this isn't the episode. She has to be constantly annoying because she's constantly being "Val. Yes, THE Val". She's the image of The Enemy who is found on ther rest of MTV. She's never just a person, she can't be.

I thought that it was an episode dealing with external issues, which is bigger in the long run than let's take another dive into Daria's psyche, or someone's psyche, and develop characters. All for character development, but that can't be all you have, occasionally you have to take a look and see what you're trying to say.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Dagny said:

"Val.

I'd argue that Val was "being herself" at only one point in the episode ... when she found out that she was pregnant by a lover who had used her for fame. And "herself" was an embittered, scared, childish hag, because Val had never let her real personality develop in any meaningfully mature fashion.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

In article ,

who > is found on ther rest of MTV. She's never just a person, she can't be.

That is a good point, she does have to be that way for it to work, I can't argue that.

I guess my problem ends up being that TLG could have been more subtle, instead of Val having to be automatically bad, but give her room to at least appreciate Daria's perspective (which she didn't even try to, at least Daria went along with the whole promotion). They didn't even have to be friends at the end. Even people like Val are allowed to exhibit some redeeming qualities and aren't necessarily always evil.

Michael J. Quinn Happy Thanksgiving! Gobble Gobble Gobble!

On 23 Nov 1999 19:57:30 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Dagny Scott), and it said:

Conceptually speaking, I like TLG. I just can't _stand_ watching the episode; Val is so friggin annoying! On the other side, I don't think DTaH fits in conceptually, but I do find it highly entertaining (all but the song at the end, which was annoying).

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Well then, I'm glad you all base your opinions of an entire thing on one voice. I'm glad I don't know any of you in real life, you'd ALL hate me.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Dagny sad:

Hey ... I *like* your voice! :)

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

no you don't.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Dagny said:

yes i do.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

What ? You sound like Val? Naa... Don't believe it.

Wait a minute, this isn't real? Say it isn't so.

Jon The Space Ranger Graveyard gives one a unique outlook on life. A dark one.

I sound like a ten year old with a ton of phlegm who hasn't quite got the hang of English. Ick.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Dagny said:

No, she doesn't. She sounds like this really nice, friendly, smart girl with a great sense of humor. She's a lot of fun to talk to on the phone :)

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

gee, Jordan, why don't you just give my phone number out? (SARCASM) but he's a little biased honestly.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

I heard tales that Dagny has a voice like liquid honey sparking in the sunshine as it drips from the leaves of the fabled Honey Tree of Port Lligat.

Whenever she speaks, the peasants stop working in the fields and say, "Hark, 'tis the voice of Dagny! Let us listen to her sweet words of Darian wisdom and rejoice!"

-Shez.

Shez of the Last Stop Cafe writes:

Sorry, that should have said "sparkling". Damn' useless spell-checkers.

-Shez.

I liked sparking better. Then I could start a fire. Fire! Fire!

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Dagny said:

Did you know that "sparking" was an Early American term for courting, specifically for what we'd call "necking"?

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

that's fun too. I still like fires though. Fire! Fire!

please don't mind me I just got up and haven't had caffeine,

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

On 27 Nov 1999 13:10:48 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

Hmm... needs a stimulant to calm you down...

Welcome to the club. ;)

On 27 Nov 1999 13:10:48 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

Heh. Fire's cool.

<gets out bic>

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:51:18 +0000, Shez wrote:

Wow, you make me real curious. Hey Dagny, why don't you give me your number (or I give you mine if that pleases you better, but then you'd have to pay the call) and we'll talk a bit (I can show you the British impression that I do) and afterwards I'll tell everyone how I liked your voice. MSB

MSB of [posted via] writes:

We have numbers now? I bags number 23. Dagny is number 6.

-Shez.

Number six? Human, all-too-human...

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Hmmm...

(Pixies) If man is five... then the devil is six... and if the devil is six... then GOOOOD IS SEVEN, then GOOOOD is seven This monkey's GONE to heaven.... (End Pixies, Monkey gone to Heaven)

Are you accusing our Dagny of being the Dark Lord of evil, shez? :P

Greg

In article , "Greg Pallis" wrote:

Well she is one of four.

cheryl
_ _
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~
When elected, I will abolish...uh...what does everyone hate...PIDGEONS!
                         -Mindy
*Are you an angel? Am I already that gone?*- sarah mclachlan

Greg Pallis of writes:

No, that's 666.

No. 6 was the number of The Prisoner, the central character in an allegorical (possibly anyway -- no-one has ever really got to the bottom of it) TV series of the same name, about a man who rejects society but is nevertheless trapped within its machinations. Having resigned from his job as a spy, he's kidnapped and imprisoned in a beautiful rural idyll called The Village, a place where people only have numbers, not names. Indeed we never find out what his name is, as he's only ever referred to as "Number 6" or "the prisoner". It was created by and starred Patrick McGoohan. Actually although it was made in the 1960's, the Village is very much like modern day Britain - everywhere under CCTV surveillance, all communications tapped, and the population kept docile by a reasonable standard of living and plenty of entertaining distractions, but being ultimately powerless. Spooky, as Brittany would say.

BCNU, -Shez.

I've always wanted to see The Prisoner. Never have. Aren't the security guard creepy white balloons?

Greg Pallis of writes:

The automated one is, it's called Rover. It's an enormous bounding balloon that restrains people by smothering them.

-Shez.

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 18:16:57 -0000, "Greg Pallis" wrote:

The vibes say six, so be six Now "if" has a clone that's a bit more femenine Pondering the pace of what's going down life and the greeting is, "Oh it's you again."

??

Shez said:

She is not a number. She is a free woman.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

In article ,

Right, she's not a number, she just has one. I never got one since I left myself off my own list. I want 13, it's a witch thing I guess.

On an irrelevent note: has anyone been out in the recent shopping madness? The local Toy's R Us line was out of the store and around the block on the 26. My friend who works there had to wave her vest and scream it was her job so they'd let her through. I was up in Frisco today and had a hell of a time finding parking...well I guess that's not too unusual. Oh, and I got the cutest shirt! It's a cartoon of a little witchy woman holding a candle. Or was it pink with a smiley face... *stops trying to justify her irrelevence*

cheryl

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:17:46 GMT, wicka_chick wrote:

I still want my dead 8.

It's started already? Gah-dammit, it's not even bloody december, and the christmas hordes are out already???

I knew this year was going to be bad, when the store I work at had the Halloween decorations down by 11:59 Oct 31...

Yup. I believe it officially started on Friday, and will pretty much be hetic from now on at malls all over the states ;) On a related note, I was watching the news and they predicted that sales over the internet would be going up by at least 3x's the amount it was at last year. I believe the figure for last years sales were something around 2 billion. Oh what joy the Holiday season gives me. Pushing past people so I can be the first in line to purchase Barbie dolls for $2.00 because they make great (but cheap) stocking stuffers. :o

Insptr

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:17:46 GMT, wicka_chick wrote:

The coolest tshirt I've ever seen was during a 1 week school trip to Berlin. It had a smiley face on it drawn with a likeness to Hitler and below that it read "Welcome to Germany!". I bet it's THE hit among tourists. I would have bought one but I didn't have the money with me. MSB

Shez said:

Oh yes. Even better ...

And then they dance, and sing, and drape garlands of flowers about her slender columnar neck ...

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

Dagny said:

Well gee ... I guess I could write it on bathroom walls ...

<ducks>

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

On 25 Nov 1999 23:51:30 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Dagny Scott), and it said:

Apparently that voice "problem" doesn't preclude such a bias. ;)

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Due to his present occupation, the author doesn't often read messages. If you want him to actually see the reply, please e-mail it to him.

On 25 Nov 1999 23:51:30 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

Don't you think a voice conversation with someone from atd would be nice for a change? I wouldn't mind talking to a few of you guys over the phone. And as I still live with my parents I don't have to care for the phone bill <eg> MSB

On the mountaintop, [email] (Dagny Scott) spake thusly:

Wow! You too?

-Mindy

"You will never find true happiness. Whatcha gonna do, cry about it?" -Weird Al Yankovic

Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P) Find the Daria Geek Code at http://www.geocities.com/TelevisonCity/Taping/3017/

On 25 Nov 1999 13:00:35 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email] (Dagny Scott), and it said:

Eh. Voices aren't what are bad, it's the words that come out. Val was annoying because she was downright _embarrasing_, one of those people you look at and just sigh in relief that you're not her, but can't help but cringe at her behaviour.

And everyone's voice sucks, at least to them. I think my voice is annoying and nasal, but nobody else complains.

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On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:46:31 GMT, [email] (Tarvok) wrote:

That phenomenon is called "politeness". Of course they DO think your voice is annoying and nasal, too. MSB (who is depressed and consequently wants other people to feel bad, too :-)

the thing is, though, nobody CARES. people might think you have a crap voice, but so what? it has to be really bad for it to have any consequence and i reckon it has to be fairly bad before it even registers that you have a crap voice. i don't like my voice either, of course, but my boyfriend says it's nice.

know the feeling...

Yes! I obsessed about my voice for years, 'cos I couldn't work out why it sounds really cool and deep and James Dean-ish in my head, and this horibble nasal drawl on tape. No-one ever commented on it, though. Of course, recently, I had 'The Cold' so it's plunged a few octaves into sub-Trent superlowness. Cool :)

On 25 Nov 1999 13:00:35 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

S'funny... that's how I'd describe Tiffany's voice. And I kinda like listening to it.

Kaos said:

Dagny sounds NOTHING like Tiffany. Or any of the Daria characters, come to think of it. She does sound a little like Jen did on *Downtown* ... but not very much like her either.

Gee, I don't think they let people who sound like Dagny on TV. I'm not sure why, cause as I've said I like her voice ...

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 07:12:11 GMT, some letters randomly coalesced from individual pixels, claiming to be from [email], and it said:

Funny thing about Tiffany's voice is that it changes radically. It was _way_ different in "The Invitation" when she made the comment about Daria's face being "all the same color."

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Tiffany's... voice... is... just...so...slow. Maybe her family speaks Mandarin or something, that's a language with lots of dragged out words and talking... slow... she appears to be some sort of Asian type anyway.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

On 26 Nov 1999 21:27:27 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

Actually, if I can be any judge of this (and being second only to the "Rice King" of my old HS, I think I can) that's precisely what she sounds like. She sounds a lot like a girl I once knew, who did speak Mandarin.

Not to hear Jordon tell it...

Jon The Space Ranger Graveyard gives one a unique outlook on life. A dark one.

On 24 Nov 1999 18:19:08 GMT, [email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

I'm incapable of hatred. Unfortunately, I think I'm also incapable of love. :(

But as long as your voice doesn't cause internal bleeding or anything, I'll be paying more attention to the words than the sounds.

On the mountaintop, [email] spake thusly:

You can learn to be capable of both if you just let yourself.

And the words _are_ the most important part.

-Mindy

"You will never find true happiness. Whatcha gonna do, cry about it?" -Weird Al Yankovic

Dcode: Ap D+ T7 Wl Q++ Fn^Fr O- Or+Os+Od m-- c MV-- C5X F:101,308 BBd FCJ -DT-- q fJ^fM^fO(Artie :-P) Find the Daria Geek Code at http://www.geocities.com/TelevisonCity/Taping/3017/

On Fri, 26 Nov 99 02:16:57 GMT, [email] (Mindy) wrote:

Tried once. Discovered that, at least for me, they come together. The dualistic traps of my mind cannot seperate them.

At the time, I figured avoiding the one was worth losing the other. (Today, I can't even remember which I was avoiding, and which I was losing.)

Absolutely.

I guess maybe I didn't get this as I don't have MTV. And even if I did have MTV, I'd probably watch it in the same way I watch Channel 5:

16:57 Turn on TV during commercial break with sound muted 16:58 Kate appears. Unmute sound when trailers end. 17:00 Kate says "...and now, Daria." Flick switch on hi fi and tonk up volume to watch Daria in glorious NICAM stereo. 17:22 Daria ends. Listen to Kate give her Val-ish waffle in which she shows she has no comprehension of the Daria mindset. 17:22 +15 seconds. Kate stops talking about Daria and starts talking about the next prog (usually The Tribe I think). Mute sound and channel surf to see if there's anything else on. 17:22 +30 seconds. Turn TV off and resume staring blankly out of window.

-Shez.

Shez wrote in message news:[email]...

This is getting scary. Has Shez installed surveillance equipment in my house? This certainly describes my normal Saturday at the stated times.

Phew! Big sigh of relief. A surveillance log would read: 17:22:15 switch off TV and race over to church.

Martin.

Martin Sylvester of NRCDT

Hey, you mean you watch Daria too? What an amazing coincidence!

-Shez.

It's amazing the number of Daria fans here on the Duran Duran newsgroup

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

I thought so.

I also watch Game On and Dr Who though, as can be seen from the (rather slow) TV-in-a-window on my now-online desktop.

-Shez.

Shez wrote in message news:[email]...

<chuckle> Bizarre, isn't it? On TV, too! And at *exactly* the same time. <shudder>

It's the *detail* that's scary....

Martin.

Today I watched "Depth Takes a Holiday" - which episode did you watch?

I liked it a bit better second time around, although my enjoyment was spoiled a little from knowing that C5 were broadcasting a sanitised version. I'm sure the uncut version would make more sense, like why did Cupid drop the leprechaun without warning? And Guy Fawkes hardly says more than two words in the whole episode in the UK version. Actually it would have been better if they'd chosen a holiday other than Guy Fawkes, since no-one in the US knows who he is, whilst no-one in the UK would understand him being associated with selling pies, nor the lack of interest by Daria & co. in losing what is undoubtedly one of the most exciting nights of the year. If there were on holiday Daria would like, it would surely be the one where you get to burn effigies of people you hate (Margaret Thatcher used to be burnt on ours), and can let off explosives all over the place without being arrested.

Oh and finally there's the little matter that there's no such holiday as Guy Fawkes Day anyway.

-Shez.

heh heh... that's because all he says in the American episode is "... is for wankers" and stuff like that.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Don't Americans use the word "wanker"?

-Shez.

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:07:55 +0000, Shez wrote:

I've already asked about "tosser". Now what's a "wanker"? Are they both the same as "loser"? MSB

They're both derogatory terms meaning "masturbator". Wanking = tossing off (for males anyhow) = masturbating.

Which reminds me of the strange practice in the US (and Australia too I think) of referring to some people as "spunky", as, in the UK at least, spunk=semen. I suppose though that it's much the same thing as saying "he's got balls" when you mean someone has audacity or courage.

-Shez.

"Shez" wrote in message news:[email]...

I've heard the term "wanking off" used in that sense.

I

least,

The dictionary (Webster) shows the word "spunk" as coming from the Latin word spongia for sponge, - tinder.

Trust me, this is the *only* meaning it has in the UK. So much so that when we were taught about Wankel engines at school, everybody sniggered. (My dictionary also gives "contemptible person" as an alternative meaning for "wanker", but this is obviously derived from the first meaning.)

Curious, I just looked it up in my OED and it does indeed give "touchwood" (tinder) as the first meaning. I never knew that before. It also gives "slang: semen" though, also "courage, mettle, spirit". Needless to say, at our school we only knew it's slang meaning.

-Shez.

In article ,

There's a "Hey! Arnold!" episode in which they visit a theme park called "Wanky Land".

Something that always amused me, and which I also hated, was little hairy dogs in twee American sitcoms, named "Spunky".

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:46:09 +0000, Shez wrote:

Ain't that the name of Rocko's dog, too. You know, Rocko the wallaby from this animated series. MSB

In article ,

I

least,

Hee hee! Rocko's Modern Life er something huh? And his friend the big cow named Heffer I think.

cheryl

I love that show! Rocko's a very Charlie Brown-esque sort of character, and I always liked those. I catch it when I can, although I admit that my mom watches the show a LOT more than I do. (did I ever mention I have an exceedingly bizarre mom?)

--J.

nope. We don't say wanker, tosser, etc. which is why they allowed them on TV. Most Americans don't know what they mean, so they're not considered major swear words. Neither is "bloody", which is just considered an amusing British term.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:07:55 +0000, Shez wrote:

Not except when making fun of British people.

I'll never forget watching a England/Argentina game with some English fans and listening to them chant "maradona is a wanker" to the tune of "allelujah".

Kyle, he who means well The Manny Alexander of alt.sports.baseball.chicago.cubs

[email] (Dagny Scott) wrote:

And don't forget his BEST line, "But proms are for tossers!" Okay, it was a painful episode, but that's a great line. I couldn't've said it better. ;-)

rich

Jane: You know, I don't know why people say we have a bad attitude.

Daria: Screw 'em.

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 18:25:33 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:

I know I've been asking a lot of language-related questions lately but I have to do it again. What's a "tosser"? I know "toss" as in "toss a coin" but I guess that's not meant here. MSB

In article ,

This is what was said in the U.S. version:

Cupid: Are we done here? You're getting kind of heavy.

St. Patricks Day: Oh, shut up you bloody <Cupid drops him> idiot.

It was probably edted out for the word bloody, which was cut out of your version of "Lane Miserables" as well.

And Guy Fawkes

Most of what he says is deragotory: Bollocks, wanker, stuff like that, are these cuss words in the UK? If Daria wasn't on at a childrens programming time you'd probably get an unedited version, although we got the unedited version over here, and it still isn't any better.

She'd either burn Ms Li or the whole school itself.

I wonder if anyone on the Daria staff knew this during production? Guy Fawkes Day (even if he's not an actual holiay) summed up this episode the best as he sat and flipped through the channels at Daria's house: "Boring, Moronic, utter tripe", and he was being very generous.

A.J.

[email] of Deja.com - Before you buy. writes:

The thing is it's Guy Fawkes *Night*, not Guy Fawkes Day - it's just something that happens in the evening. Which is presumably why it's not a holiday, as the events (bonfires and fireworks) don't start until after people have finished work (or school), ie. after dark, so there's no need to have the day off.

-Shez.

Shez wrote in message news:[email]...

By a spooky coincidence...

I endorse those remarks. First time round I'd only recently seen an MPEG of the full version, and I was just so annoyed at all the stuff that had been cut. This time I was able to enjoy it more.

Perhaps he was a sop to us British fans. A minor character (or even not so minor) from your biggest export market isn't an unknown ploy. It's common in US series, but it goes back a long way here, too. Remember when Dr Who got an American assistant? And there's the Commander in Red Dwarf...

Perhaps the writers wanted a character who would be an outsider in the USA, and so comment as he did when channel surfing. Thinking of a holiday that the UK and the USA don't share, and that can be personified in an interesting way, isn't so easy, at least for me.

Of course, if France were a bigger export market than the UK, Bastille Day might have got a look in.

Actually, and I speak only for myself, there are nights I get more excited than Bonfire Night.

Hmm. I'd see that as having more appeal to B&B. I can imagine Daria, in her Highland(?) days, being amused by their Bonfire Night antics, but I find it harder to see her then (or now, in Lawndale) getting excited about fireworks or a bonfire.

Guy

There is that little detail, yes. ;:-)

Martin.

I think I would be inclined to choose May Day, which *is* a holiday (although our government cynically contrives never to have the public holiday actually fall on May 1st itself).

May Day would be dressed as a Morris Dancer, and could make comments about international socialism and the evils of American capitalist television. And being pagans, he & Halloween could have got embroiled in religious arguments with Xmas.

I think that would be very sad. Everyone should enjoy doing such stuff. If Daria enjoys bloodthirsty Melody Powers stories, she could surely find it within herself to enjoy fireworks that make deafening bangs. If not, I'd recommend she check out Jessica Liotta's website for guidance on why people shouldn't lose touch with their child-like nature as they grow up.

-Shez.

Shez wrote in message news:[email]...

USA,

Brilliant idea!

And about (most) American beer? Somehow Morris dancers and real ale are associated in my mind. Hmmmm.

fireworks

Like she should enjoy sports? Or shopping? Or fashion?

If she chose to, I dare say she could; but would she choose to? Not for a few years, I'd guess. I don't see it as part of the whole Daria thing. She'll be getting contacts next! ;-)

I remember part of a crowd at a big fireworks display in Windsor Great Park passing round a bottle of gin and making sarcastic "Ooh!" and "Aaah!" noises as the fireworks burst. Bear in mind that E-II-R was the hostess, so it was a bit more than a GBP12.99 selction box. I think Daria would've fitted right in with the ironically excited.

Why do I hear that sentence in Mr O'Neill's voice? 8-)

I agree with the sentiment, btw.

Martin.

isn't EVERYTHING associated with real ale in your mind? ;)

endless, nameless wrote in message news:[email]...

LOL! Rumbled!

Well, not *quite* everything. <g>

Martin.

I have to agree with everyone else on this. I think the episode is a good concept, but it still annoyed the hell out of me. I think it's because I hate seeing someone like Daria have to deal with a moron like Val and suffer from it. It makes me think what if that happened in real life or something, you know? It's pisses me off.

I was actually going to ask this a couple days ago, but I stopped because I was unsure -but you bring up the point and I might as well go ahead and ask:

Does anyone think it's strange that a show like Daria is shown on MTV of all stations?

I doubt what you said about self-attacks. Do the heads at MTV even know what Daria's writers are doing> I think that they must think that Daria is getting some good ratings because it attracts "individual" thinkers or whatever, so they keep it on. It's like MTV wants to promote the edginess of individuality, but create a confomist attitute based on that to sell products to that demographic, but then it hosts shows (knowingly or unknowingly?) that attack this corporate mindset.. etc etc. I don't know how convoluted this gets, but it's immensely silly. And who knows what Daria viewers are thinking (unless of course they post here, but then again, is it them or the mind control??)...

I've been trying to create on topic threads myself. The last month or so I've been asking questions like this, except a lot of times the threads go totally mutant. Guess it can't be helped, the people here are just way too creative. I guess things will get even more interesting when the new season hits. Someone help me think of some new Daria Discussions.

CB, on a quest to create on-topic discussions in my favorite newsgroups. http://animation.acmecity.com/model/347/main.html Visit this page. It is full of great cartoon art!

Buster Logan said:

I do. *Daria* is hostile to the very values that MTV is built on. And not in the usual "Let's all pretend to be socialists" way that you see on a lot of series television, either.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote in message news:[email]...

not in

lot of

I disagree. MTV has always been an avant garde kind of outfit and Viacom doesn't care as long as it makes money. In fact Daria fits into the MTV demographic quite well: a smart youth who can teach kids something useful instead of just pitching them. MTV has often demonstated at least some pro bono publico tendencies, such as their youth voting campaigns or youth violence programs. Daria appeals to a broader audience as well. If it weren't for Daria I might not watch MTV at all--or see their ads. And I'll note that some of those ads might be considered to be targeted at people like me.

I can't think of another station/network that could have ever produced Daria without it becoming a mangled mess. Daria, as we know her, is very much a product of the MTV corporate culture.

Probably they don't keep much more track of it than the BBC did with Spike and with Python, just sort of let them do, y'know, whatever. The advantage of being a small scale program is you get to play around with doing whatever without great risk. And the people in charge don't care. So you attacked MTV or the BBC. That's not a person, it's an entity.

Dagny

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/9441/

"This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper." -T.S. Eliot

Buster Logan wrote in message news:81g9h1$e2k$[email]...

I enjoyed the episode. IRL I used to find people like Val irritating; now (have I mellowed?), I pity them.

It does sadden me that some people like Val have immense power over people's lives, by virtue of their positions in the media. Their shallow, self-indulgent, self-absorbed attitudes are being drip-fed to a generation. But you'd expect that to sadden me: I've given my life to caring for people's spiritual life, and there's little as destructive of spiritual growth as self-indulgence.

I'm not saying that everyone in the media is like Val. I'm not tarring all teen magazines with the same brush (I can't: I don't read teen magazines!).

I've always thought it ironic.

I've even described _Daria_ as prophetic. The role of a prophet includes standing up for values which established culture would prefer to wither away; and pointing out hypocrisy that often passes unremarked.

The contrast between _Daria_ and every other MTV product I've ever seen does give fans two useful arguments when we're called on to support moves to seek MTV's go-ahead for a new series.

1. By producing a series that is antithetical to what's sometimes called "MTV culture," MTV is displaying great confidence. A less confident broadcaster would have binned it after the first series.

2. MTV is sometimes accused of producing nothing but mindless pap. That criticism can easily be overcome by pointing out that _Daria_ is an MTV product.

Martin.

Martin Sylvester said:

Is it really "self" indulgence, though? Seems to me that someone like Val has submerged her "self" in a futile quest to win the approval of others, while someone like Daria or Jane is expressing her true "self" in ways that Val would never dare.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

Jordan S. Bassior wrote in message news:[email]...

people's

generation.

As I remember TLG, it looked to me as if Val became the person she is by indulging her desire for popularity, her taste for power, and her love of fame. Seems like self-indulgence to me.

That's the payback. Self-indulgence is eventually destructive of a person's self. It's slavery posing as freedom.

would

I agree. Self-indulgence and self expression are two quite different things, ISTM.

We've seen evidence that Daria and Jane aren't self-indulgent (I don't mean to imply you think they are, Jordan). One example: their decision when faced with the hypo lady offering way over the rate for the chocolate. Another: going easy on Quinn when editing the video. Another: defying authority and taking action to end the corrupt use of their artwork. Incidentally, that last example also shows they're not cynics: a cynic wouldn't have bothered. These are just examples that come first to mind; I dare say people reading this can think of better ones.

Martin.

Martin Sylvester said:

It's "bad selfishness" as opposed to "enlightened self-interest", so to speak.

Daria in particular is clearly an idealist, and Jane is too, especially where her art is concerned.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

"Man, as we know him, is a poor creature; but he is halfway between an ape and a god and he is travelling in the right direction." (Dean William R. Inge)

In article ,

DTAH is the only one out of the 39 eps so far that I will not watch again. Breaking from the typical Daria universe is not a bad thng if done correctly, which the musical episode was IMHO, other than the singing and dancing, what was done so wrong about it? Take out the musical part of it and it could be a plausibly great instead of good ep. As far as The Lost Girls, yes a bad ep. very hard to watch over again, but not the worst, the 3 worst of sea. 3 IMO are #3-The Lost Girls, #2-Just Add Water, not a bad ep persay, just a very old, tired and over-recycled plotline, #1-DTAH, so bad I won't bother typing the actual title of the ep.

Same here, although I've never checked out the surgery option yet. In 7th grade I started to wear glasses, for my first year of college, I tried contacts, they irritated my eyes no matter what was tried(just like they did for Daria), went back to the glasses and have been wearing them for 4 years now, without anything, my vision is about 20/500, I can see colors and very blurry objects, but thats about it. I'd personally keep the glasses, I think it makes me look better, I always felt as though I looked stoned wearing contacts.

A.J.

Funny you should mention its resemblance to Sabrina, as "The Lost Girls" is in fact based on a Clarissa episode called "She Drives Me Crazy", they just changed the names of the characters. Val was called Jill in the original, her magazine was called "Cheeky", and the dramatic tension in the episode arose because Clarissa stood to win a car if the visit went off well, so she had to swallow her pride and grovel to the slimy editor. This element was missing from the Daria version which is why it didn't work - Daria had no vested interest in the visit working so the episode just drifted along pointlessly.

-Shez.

In article ,

At least I'm not the only one who did that, I viewed that part over and over again, by far the most emotional, powerful look into Daria, the person, yet so far.

Brittany does have good feelings and intentions about all those around her. This was evident here in TALD, and how excited she was to help Daria with her voice in The Old and the Beautiful. These intentions are often not shown due to a lack of intellect and her popularity standing as head cheerleader, others may not see it as the cool thing to do, so she lets others dictate her actions sometimes.

Same as Brittany above, Quinn is realizing how shallow her life is to a point, but not enough yet to give up the popularity and attention she craves. Until she realizes that popularity evemntually fades and you're left with little after its gone, the shallowness will remain. Although as said she appears to be going in that direction, only time and more eps will tell.

Especially Jane's Addition, it showed Daria really has these petty emotions like jealousy and posessiveness like that of a small child that she claims she doesn't. Yes it was out of fear of losing her best friend, and the realization of how Tent will fit in her life, for now, combining to make her feel this way, but there was no real need for it. This ep. definitely showed us the flaws of Daria and others, and provided major character growth and development, which is why it's such a great episode.

See another post for reaction to DTAH.

It wasn't too bad, seeing the characters a bit out of character if only slightly, made this ep.a good one for me. It proved its point well about miscommunication run amok.

Am I to understand that these were written by the same person?

Nope, The Lawndale File was written by Peter Elwell, DTAH was written by Sam Johnson and Chris Marcil.

A.J.