Trent

I'm new here so don't tell me this has alwready been discussed.

Is it just be or is trent really cute?? (or would be if he was human) It could be the fact i have a thing for guys with goatees. Which is a problem seeing as though i'm only 13...

Congratulations! You�re normal. I�ve heard many girls and young women yoweling about how charming Trent is. Personally (being a 34 year old guy) I think it�s rather comforting that I don�t see what all the fuss is about. Seriously though, I found the guy to be rather scary at first. He�s pierced and tattooed so much that I wouldn�t come within a mile of the guy if he were real. After a while though I got used to the character. Now I�m in his cheering section (along with everyone else) in hopes that he and Daria start dating. Her logic could compliment his artistic nature perfectly. I�m afraid it would be a fleeting thing though. It�s quite likely that Trent would drive Daria nuts after a year or two.

I don�t think it�s too strange to be captivated by a cartoon. I�m guilty of it myself. If I found a real life version of Daria (who was in her late 20�s or early 30�s) I�d probably marry her. ****** contact info ****** Don't try to email me by hitting Reply. That's my spam email address, the one I haven't looked at for 6 months. My actual email address is on my web page.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/6927/

cl <@bigpond.com> wrote in message ...

Warren wrote in message ...

I

I'd be interested in finding out why, exactly. Trent pretty much covers the bases of many friends of mine I deal with on a daily basis...

I'm quite pleased that they play Trent as quite a bit deeper than most shows would play him. It would be easy to box him in the "Wayne's World" or "Bill & Ted" stereotype... Just a stooge. He's not though, and he's especially perceptive about people.

start

afraid

I hope they don't begin dating... at least not for awhile...

s

I'm a Jane man myself... or to put it as I did a few days ago, "If Jane wasn't simply two steps above a stick figure..."

Chris Seamans wrote in message ...

Trent is "especially perceptive about people"? Our Trent? The same one Jane was talkng about when she said "If there's one thing I know about Trent, it's that he's oblivious"? And not without good reason. In this week's episode his response to Jake's "I can't take it anymore" is "Whoa, no more cocoa for you, man." A perceptive person might have suspected something deeper in Jake's outburst than the immediate cocoa. . . Unfortunatly, Trent's always been portrayed as being, umm, none too bright.

Some Trent-isms: Guitar practice is. . . Sleeping with a guitar in your hand, "as long as you don't drop it!" (#102) A better name than "Mystik Spyral" is. . . "Mystik Spiral," spelled with "two y's" (#111) A good plan for a family reunion is. . . "We find a bar, and we don't leave it until we're unconscious." (#112) The music of Zappa is indistinguishable from. . . The radio and commercials "selling fishsticks." (#205)

Call it a shame, but give Bill&Ted a heavy dose of sedatives and they'd sound a lot like Trent. No one's doubting that he's a genuinely nice guy, but then so are B&T. Trent will come through every now and then with a sensitive remark, but it's just a break in his clouds of Lethe. He was completely oblivios to the hurricane until Helen told him, and when Jane said "I bet he's snoring," she was right. Personally, a better description of Trent might be "especially somnambulant."

It continues to amaze me what emotions a person can harbor for a cartoon ;) (myself included).

BB

B_B_England wrote in message ...

Yep. I'm going to stick to my guns on this one. Keep in mind that there's a *vast* gulf between Jane's way of seeing things (as in "Trent's oblivious to the world") and Trent's way of seeing things (as in "there's no point to making fun of Daria for peeing in the woods or getting a bee sting or sitting on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich").

Once Jane's out of high school, she'll probably become more oblivious than even she knows ;^)

(#102)

People make humorous comments in real life. It doesn't make them dense ;^)

I didn't say he had a penchant for coming up with names... Follow it up in the same episode when he's alone with Daria. Listen to what he says... specifically about the statement his tattoo makes and how his life is going. I'll stick by my guns on that one too.

Actually, that *is* a good plan for a family reunion!

Even being a Zappa fan, I can see where confusion might manifest itself...

Nah. There's a bit more too Trent than the typical "suburban rocker" stereotype.

He was *sleeping*. Hell, I could identify with that one. I've actually made the comment, well after a storm had started, "Oh shit, I think we'd better tape up the windows." Just 'cause he doesn't watch the news doesn't mean he's not perceptive.

What do you expect of someone who stays out all night?

Can't disagree there.

On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:01:05 -0500, "Chris Seamans" wrote:

Damn Are we related? *L*

[email] (Brent Wilkins) wrote:

A very good plan indeed. :-)

rich.

Quinn: People are so weird!

Daria: Some are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.

paperpusher wrote in message ...

My family has had reunions that are variations on that plan ;^)

In article , "Chris Seamans" wrote:

My family doesn't have reunions, it has too much sense for that. <g> Plus, nobody knows where anyone else is anyway...

Alli

Alli wrote:

The opposite here. I actually saw this in a TV broadcast once:

"What most people call a family reunion is called Sunday dinner in Pittsburgh."

Sadly, too true.

Peace Kevin

In article , "Kevin Trichtinger" wrote:

Hehe. My family's all over the place. Some of my relatives aren't too far away - most of my mother's family is somewhere in the UK, but there's my dad's family in Greece, and people from both sides of the family in the US, and God knows where else.

Alli

In article , [email] wrote:

So, will we ever get an Alli American Tour?

Mikel Midnight wrote:

Probably, when I'm older. That probably won't be to visit relatives, though. Any holiday would be ruined by a visit to Uncle Pete.... <g>

Mikel Midnight wrote:

I can see it now! "ALLI: LIVE from Radio City Music Hall!" One night only, get your tickets early!

--J.

In article , "Chris Seamans" wrote:

I've never been to a family reunion myself (and I don't think families like mine actually have them because we see each other so often), but during family functions like birthdays, holiday celebrations, and the like, my family mostly acts in much the same way. Gettin' drunk. With tons of beer and tequila.

Oh great, now I've given you a bad mental pic of my family...um, not everyone does that.... *g*

deena lissa

"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

In article ,

family

mostly

I've never been to a family reunion either. Weddings, Christenings, etc, are usually pretty boring, except when li'l cousin Alice starts screaming her head off.

Alli

Brent Wilkins wrote in message ...

I dunno. I've got a pretty big family <g>

I should've known better than to talk about Trent. . . For the record, I never said Trent was "dense," "stupid," or otherwise unintelligent. I did say he was "none too bright." "Bright," definiton 9, from my dictionary: "animated; lively; cheerful as a person." Can we agree that the Trent we see on "Daria" is the antithesis of an "animated" (ha!) and "lively" person?

But now that you mention it, I'm game.

Chris Seamans wrote in message ...

Hey! Why no objections to the cocoa line?

Out of every character on the show, Jane has probably known Trent the longest and still has an ongoing relationship with him, especially since he still lives at home (sure there's the band too, but we really know nothing about them, not even how long they've been together). I think I'll trust Jane's explanations over fan speculation (including my own) about what's really going on in Trent's head. Plus, Trent's own lines from that ep. humorously back up Jane's "oblivious" comment: Trent: "Whoa, I didn't see that one coming." What's the point of a line like that except in the context of Trent's obliviousness? It's only ironic in that case.

But this wasn't originally a humorous comment. Trent said: "I've been practising for ten hours straight." That's a statement, not a joke. There's no punchline, and we'd believe it if Jane hadn't responded: "Daria, does sleeping with a guitar in your hand count as practice?" Now Trent says "If you don't drop it." Trent was prefectly willing to pass off a nap with a guitar as practice (which might explain why he still can't play an open G tuning. . .), that was my point, not the humorous comment part.

Copying a tatoo out of a magizine is proof of inteligence? How? As for wondering where his life's going, considering his position (no money, no job, still living at home, no skills, etc.) I certainly hope he's considered his situation! But look at how uncritically he accepts what Daria tells him, of course it's exactly what he wants to hear, and goes back to thinking he's "not doing that bad."

You're joking (right?), but seriously, remember he's saying "we" here. That means he intends for his sixteen-yearold kid sister to pass out with him in some bar in an unfamiliar city. Jane reminds him of what a stupid idea this is. . .

Yeah, since it's Zappa it's almost defensible, which makes it a funny line, but still, when the call letters of your local station come up it should tip a person off. .

How about another one? Trent from #201: T: "All right, here's the plan: I'll sit right here with my foot on the accellerator ready to burn rubber." Jane: "Trent, pull over here and be sure to turn the car off in case you fall asleep, okay?" T: "Alternate plan, cool."

Notice a pattern? Just like in #112, which was also written by Glen E., Trent comes up with a poor plan, Jane corrects him (very patronizingly), and he does what Jane says. Like it or not, this does make Jane appear to be the more responsible, practical, authoritative, etc. of the two Lanes.

That's part of the point. Trent stays out all night and so wants to sleep all day, since "Daria" episodes take place in the daytime the Trent we see is a sleep- deprived one. Hence he does not often display qualities such as "alertness" or "perceptiveness." I have no idea what Trent's innate abilities are supposed to be, just the functional level he displays while the shows are happening.

BB

In article , "B_B_England" wrote:

was

explain

LOL, like, how much practice does that take anyway? <g>

Alli

he said open "D" tuning. and on a guitar, chord forrmations are totally different if you change the tuning on a guitar. it takes ALOT of practice. Saerah

[email] (AniSaerah) wrote:

But open D is designed to be pretty darn easy to play, so long as you're willing to replace a lot of busted strings from retuning. <g> There're a lot of harder alternative tunings to try than open D.

rich.

Helen: Bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality.

Jake: Jefferson!

Helen: Stalin.

In article , [email] wrote:

This was why I gave up playing in open D. <g>

I never really understood what the point is. I mean, there are many perfectly good songs played in standard tuning. I can't even think of a song that's not, except for some in dropped D which probably doesn't count anyway... :)

Alli

B_B_England wrote in message ...

9,

Dictionary definitions and colloquial meanings are two *entirely* different things. By the definition you bring up, *Daria* is "none too bright." In fact she's an absolute perfect example ;^)

Alright.

I thought I did, but hey, I'm "none too bright" many times when I post (usually when I wake up or before I go to sleep, either way, I'm in a Trent-like state)... ;^)

Being good with people doesn't mean you know all of their psychological quirks after being around them for 5 minutes.

longest

lives at

explanations over

head.

I would, but both Jane (and Daria) have both shown an amazing lack of insight when it comes to other. It's part of their endearing charm.

I'll stand by my statement on that one. For a further defense, check the very bottom of the message. You can contrast Jane's "oblivious" comment in "Road Worrier" with Trent's actions in "The Misery Chick."

a

ironic in that

You've just introduced a very weak link in the argument. One could argue that Trent is amazingly perceptive as later he says that he DID see the one that broke Daria's glasses coming ;^)

practising

punchline, and

Most of Daria's comments are jokes with no punchlines. I was referring to his comeback though, not the original statement.

guitar in

Trent was

explain

humorous

And that was the humorous comment. Considering the fact that he's doing the patented "Trent goofy smile" when he says the line, I'd suspect he was joking.

No. You missed the point entirely. Having no illusions about copying a tattoo from a magazine is a sign of intelligence and self-awareness.

Copying a tattoo from a magazine is also not proof of lack of intelligence.

job,

situation!

This doesn't seem to be a sign of obliviousness to me.

it's exactly

He's not. He's pursuing his dream. We already established that one of his classmates is working in a tollbooth. It's easy to measure one against the other: doing what I've always wanted versus crap 9 to 5 minimum wage job...

That

some

. .

Nope. Not at all. That's often the plan during the second half of our own family reunion, make of it what you will. I imagine however, if you're going to take Trent's comments completely at face value...

but

person off. .

I'm not going to debate exactly what was on the air, but at least around here call letters don't come up during commercials.

accellerator

fall asleep,

Okay... I'm not sure how this is indicative of obliviousness.

Trent

does

Authoritative? Possibly. No indication of obliviounsness, stupidity, nor any definition of brightness. Practical? Possibly, again though, it doesn't seem to support what you're saying. I didn't say Trent was practical. Responsible? That's a tough call really. I wouldn't say that any of the characters in the show (with the exception of Jake and Helen) are terribly responsible.

Again though, his propensity for sleep isn't indicative of his "brightness" per se.

all day,

sleep-

"alertness" or

supposed to

Actually though, it can be argued that by watching the show enough to be analytical in the way you've been, Trent's "innate abilities" should most likely appear. It's like playing connect the dots with points that are stretched out over time...

I've heard other local longtime Daria fans and friends comment on the same thing, so I know it's not only me.

On the other hand, take a look at "The Misery Chick." We've got the responsible, practical and authoritative Jane in a snit in her room avoiding Daria like the plague. Jane assumes that Trent simply forgot that she told him to tell anybody who stopped over (Daria, since Jane doesn't seem to have other friends) that she was out running. It's obvious he didn't forget. Jane makes the assumption, as always, that Trent is simply oblivious to the world... perhaps she isn't willing to give him the credit that he's due. In other words, maybe she doesn't know him as well as you claim.

It's pretty common, actually. Brothers and sisters can be often critical of each other. Using your same argument, it could be said that Daria is loathsome and self-centered. Quinn perceives her that way often, and Quinn has known her longer than any of us. I *could* say that I take Quinn's opinions over any fan speculation.

One of the things I've leaned about newsgroups is that they make it possible to become involved in very bitter arguments with people who you may fundamentally agree with. But I enjoy a discussion with good points made all around, so let us by all means continue :)

Chris Seamans wrote in message ...

This is a touchy subject for me, but I'll spare you the rant. Suffice it to say that I refuse to relinquish the right to use any authenticateable definition for "bright" and all other words. As Jane would say, you can have my dictionary when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

As for Daria being "none too bright" (by my def. 9), she isn't, as hers is not a sunny disposition. Brittany, on the other hand, is usually a bright and cheerful person (she is a cheerleader, after all!). (again, by def. 9)

Still, I wouldn't say an "especially perceptive" person is even necessary to suspect that *just maybe* when a person puts their drink down and shouts "I can't take it anymore!" they're thinking about more than hot cocoa, no matter who the shouting person is.

I'm not objecting, just curious, but when did Jane show an amazing lack of insight about Daria?

Chick."

No argument here, #113 was Trent's shining moment. That doesn't mean that it's still not a departure from his actions in other circumstances. One of the great things about "Daria" is that they don't put characters in absolute behavior patterns from which they may not deviate. Just like in real-life, people sometimes have moments of behavior which are uncharicteristic for them, and don't we all?

Hmm, I didn't mean that as a link--just a piece of bonus humor that only works if you see Trent that way. As for the second time, remember that he failed to warn the girls like he was supposed to. I guess he forgot ;) (An interesting spin on this would be to say Trent to deliberatly acts oblivious in defience of Jane's authoritative manner, he does claim "a problem with authority," after all. But to have Jane as convinced as she is, and she does appear convinced, he would need to have a somewhat oblivious nature to begin with, or else Jane is very imperceptive about people. To use this defense in all situations, that he's "fakeing," though, would be to ascribe to him the sort of capacity generally associated with sociopaths. But this "the real Trent is--" interpreting style really isn't my bag. You can use it if you like.)

I was referring mainly to the original statement. Actually, I would say Daria's comments are the punchlines to the jokes other people have been unknowingly saying--or living.

As for the second comment, I just mentioned it for the humor, and given the "goofy smile," it seems Trent knew it sounded funny. But this can't tell us whether it was a "pure" joke with no basis in reality or if he was being self-depreciatingly humorous (a device I use myself) in an attempt to make light of something he actually did/believed. And if I'm capable of it, then I certainly can't say Trent isn't, whatever his intelligence may be ;)

We don't know if has illusions or not, only that we believe what he said to be "true" in the fictional sense. It is quite possible to have "illusions" but express what other people expect as "truth" instead. This is just self-conciousness, which I don't know whether you will call a sign of self-awareness or not. On the hand, having illusions also arises from self- conciousness, and persons with very low self-conciousness, such as young children and persons of reputed low-intelligence, generally do not believe illusions about themselves for this reason. Thus, the apparent presence or absence of illusions does not appear to me to be a very good measure of intelligence of self-awareness, except that their presence, not absence, presumes a modicum of both. What a sticky subject!

I agree, "proof" is definitely too strong a word.

Nobody ever said he was sub-human! It's the frequency, duration, and thoroughness of these considerations which may be relevent to questions of his obliviousness, inteligence, etc. on a relative scale for people.

This reminds me of '80's logic: "doing what I want now trumps all," including being able to do what you want later. "Delayed-gratification, " now is that a sign of inteligence and self-awareness? You look it up. The big difference between Trent and a guy who's working a job or maybe taking classes somewhere is that Trent's got free room and board regardless. Before you insult the other guy remember everyone isn't so 'lucky'.

There seems to me to be a difference between passing out just with your minor sister instead of seeing your relatives, and drinking 'tll you pass out WITH your relatives, a sort of safety in numbers, but it may all depend on the relatives. . .

station come up it should tip a

Of course not during a commercial! But they do accompany them, and everything else, at least where I'm from. Even "ten-in-a-row music marathons" with no commercials still have station IDs between songs. At least around here. . . But this is a red herring. (Commie scum!;) Point is, how long could an "especially perceptive" person who's trying to be a musician listen to the radio and still think he's playing an old record? How long do you think it would take Jane, or Daria, seeing as she's "bright?" Even Jesse tells Trent he can't tell the difference between "Zappa digital" and "Zappa analog." The whole scene's a "the Emperor has no clothes" situation. Trent "knows" he put a record on, and he's too oblivious to notice that the radio is what's playing; he even won't take Jesse seriously.

I didn't mean for it to be, but now that you mention it, "I'll sit right here with my foot on the accellerator" does not indicate the best grasp on the reality of the situation, hence "obliviousness." There's no need to detail the unnecessary dangers of that "plan" as Jane implies some and you can think of the rest.

"Practicalness" is just the ability to fully comprehend a situation and then form a plan capable of dealing with that situation in a desireable manner. Comprehending the situation demands alertness, not obliviousness, and the ability to form a good plan, in other words weigh the consequnces of one's actions in advance, is commonly thought to be integral to "intelligence." Thus, "practicalness" is one of the best traits to look for in judging both obliviousness and intelligence.

Are you attempting to appeal to my vanity? It won't work; nice try though ;)

You needn't worry about that! Trent has a special cadre of fans for whom he can do no wrong. There are many who feel otherwise as well.

You must admit this is a highly atypical moment for Jane. In over two seasons there have only been two temporary break-ups between J&D, and this was the first. She's acting as though very upset--disturbed, really-- and in emotional moments you don't always. . . heck, we consider it rare and admirable to manage to continue thinking in a normal, rational manner in such circumstances. That's not a fair example of Jane.

Well, if you *really* want to say Daria's "loathsome," I won't say you're wrong, in fact, I can't. I may disagree but "loathsomeness," and its opposite, "attractiveness," are purely subjective qualities. I say spinach tastes good, you say it doesn't, who's wrong? Nobody. It's a subjective quality. As for her being self-centered, she is somewhat, especially in the first season, but less so in the second. "Next time?" "Twenty"

Okay, I'll say it, this has been fun. Until next time, --BB

B_B_England wrote in message ...

possible

all

Sure thing. You should know though, I'm not bitter... yet ;^)

9,

different

to say

definition

Fair enough. Keep in mind, however, colloquial meanings are often quite different from real meanings, and vice versa. What I've learned from Usenet is exactly how much even a single "standardized" language differs from place to place.

not a

Is this how you originally intended bright, though?

to suspect that *just maybe* when a person puts their

more than hot cocoa, no matter

Let's face it, despite the fact Jake's been accused of one dimensionality, you never know what the hell is going on in his mind until he blurts it out... In "The Teachings of Don Jake" for example, he assumes Daria is asking him for several hundred billion dollars in his addled haze ;^)

In that she felt she couldn't talk to Daria about her problems in "The Misery Chick." Also, in "Monster" when she questions Daria about how come the video about Quinn turned out to be not so nasty...

One

absolute

I can say with all honesty that I really believe that Trent *is* that way. He's got that vibe about him. He's not oblivious, he's just easygoing.

Nope, he didn't *fail* to tell them, he remembered. Jane just didn't specify *when* he should tell them. He's got the trademark Trent smirk when he says it. I'm sure if I was less tired I could make a good argument that he's simply razzing his little sister! ;^)

Jane *does* attempt to be authoritative, it's quite possible he did it on purpose.

oblivious

she

to

"the

you like.)

No, I see what you're saying. I'm not saying that he hits the nail on the head 99 times out of 100. I'm not going to argue that certain things *don't* go over his head. It just seems as if he ends up on the mark frequently.

I *do* honestly think that both Jane and Daria are relatively imperceptive about people though. Doesn't mean I don't like them, I like them quite a bit... but I do think they underestimate him.

Fair enough.

us

self-depreciatingly humorous (a device I use myself) in an

certainly

I don't doubt it *was* self depreciating! I'm not saying that *he* didn't fall asleep while practicing guitar. In fact, I'm sure he did! Then he was caught in a little white lie... and he joked his way out of it. Lots of people do it.

Actually, I think the "I copied a tattoo from a magazine" line was the defining point of that episode. Daria has the ability to see through many forms of superficial bull... as a result, her immediate thought on the matter happens to be a sarcastic cut through.

Trent however makes no bones about it. He liked the tattoo and he got it done. He saw it in a magazine and liked it. He wanted something and did it for *no* reason other than the aesthetics.

of

self-

presumes a modicum of both. What a sticky subject!

Okay, okay... You went deeper than I thought you would. Perhaps illusions might not have been the best term. He seems to be at ease with his choice, at any rate. He's not going to make up a silly excuse to explain it away.

intelligence.

If he liked it, hell, he liked it!

I never said he was super-human either! ;^)

including

that

difference

I'm not insulting the other guy, nor is Trent. I worked damned hard to pay my way through a local community. I took several classes, with my sights set on electronics and computer science. It was a matter of convenience (I can handle the work load). However, just this semester I woke up and realized that wasn't the field I wanted to be in...

At the moment I'm "pulling a Trent" and floating, focusing mostly on my writing and selling my writing. I'm doing what I *want* to do, not in a shallow "instant gratification" sense, but a very real and deep sense. I will say this much, although the pay's shit for a freelance writer, it's a whole hell of alot more fulfilling than working 9 to 5 doing stuff I have no interest in.

Perhaps I'm projecting my own feelings on that particular situation, but I see Trent in that same light. He is doing what he wants, not in the 80s sense of instant-gratification at the cost of all, but in the sense of that's the direction he's driven.

Some people envision getting something more out of life than getting money. Let's face it, if Trent waits until later he's dead. Rock 'n' Roll is ultimately a youth industry, and it's getting younger every day (or maybe I'm just getting older and the artists of today just *appear* younger). Wait too long, and you're screwed. Would Jim Morrison have made it to demigod status if he had waited until later? Would Bruce Sterling have made it into the writing business at the right time if he spend more time grounded in reality? Probably no on both counts. There are exceptions to the rule, I'm sure, but it's all a matter of keeping the momentum going.

In a very real sense it hits home for me. My mother is a fantastic artist. She always had a dream to get into fashion design. The sad fact of the matter is that it's never going to happen. Her life took her in another direction, and it depresses the hell out of me. Of course, if it hadn't, I w ouldn't have been born. She's been at a job she hates day in and day out for something in the vicinity of 30 years now. Sometimes she talks about how she wished she'd really followed her dreams.

My father, on the other hand, was supposed to be a radar and sonar operator on a treasure hunting ship back in the late 60s. He had the expertise and the ability. Real life intruded and he didn't take the gamble. Had he taken the gamble, he would have been rich. Had he done it, he could have lived a life of comfort instead of working his ass off to pay his way through college when I was growing up... Of course, again I wouldn't have been born.

Woah... Way too personal there ;^)

My ultimate point is: don't knock the other guy just because he's following his dream. You don't know where he's going to end up.

We can make pat assumptions about Trent's abilities, of course, and proclaim he'll never make it. Nobody expected that Nirvana would ever make it. An ex-girlfriend of mine drank beer in an alleyway behind a rat-hole of a club with Kurt Cobain just half a year before he was on the top of the charts. Taste, fame and fortune are fickle things.

Another ex-girlfriend had an uncle who was involved in the music industry in L.A. He brought home this guy for Christmas, he felt bad for him, he was kind of ugly, lanky, and he had a weird voice. The guy was trying to make it as an actor. Nobody really thought he'd make it, they thought he was way out of his league trying to break into the acting business...

Well, in a whirlwind flash the guy found work. He won a best actor Oscar for "Leaving Las Vegas" and he's now a multimillion dollar actor with major release after major release. That's right, he's Nicholas Cage.

Go figure. For every guy (or band) that makes it, there are twenty more that could have made it, but real life got in the way. For every twenty guys (or bands) that made it, there are scores that never do, but make a living out of it and love it...

out

the

It does depend on the relatives. The distinct impression given by the Lane family reunion is that it's a place they *don't* want to be...

"You're a rotten bum."

Yes, it is something of a red herring ;^)

be

Ah, I said he was especially perceptive about people, dear friend, *people*...

seriously.

Yep, a humorous aside. He is willing to experiment, however. You can't deny that ;^)

here with my

of the

unnecessary

Fair enough.

then

for in

Okay, point made. A difference of meaning.

;)

Nah, just pointing out that you accurately analyzed several situations and that as such, you most likely understand that by connecting the dots you can get a deeper and more realized picture.

I believe he can do wrong, I just think he should get some credit.

He's not particularly dense, from what I've seen.

really--

and

Hell yes it is! Geeze. She seemed in control of her functions to me! ;^)

I'm sticking to the point because I've seen the "sibling misunderstanding" quite often. I lived with my brother for some 20 years or so, and it wasn't until the last 5 that I really *understood* him. It's the same for many of my friends with siblings that are significantly older or younger.

I honestly think that's the case here.

wrong,

good,

Well, the point still stands, IMO. Just being around somebody for a large portion of your life doesn't equate with an understanding of them. To Jane, Trent seems no more than a goofy and lazy older brother. It can be argued with a degree of effectiveness that Trent is driven by certain internal passions. Perhaps if Jane had a younger sibling, he or she would see Jane in a similar light, or one entirely different...

Jane's alot more like Trent than she believes, I'm sure. In the 'college' episode (I forget the name) Jane fantasizes about blowing all her college money on a spacious and expensive New York studio... hmmm...

Okay, I'm way too tired to go on. It's quite fortunate that I'm at the end here.

"animated" (ha!) and "lively" person? << B B Enland.

He's "animated" in one sense but certainly not the other. Yes, I agree he's laid back to the point of near-horizontality ... <g>

Yes, Trent's basically oblivious to a lot of what goes around him. This does not necessarily indicate stupidity, though, but rather unconcern, probably due to self-absorption. He does seem to pay attention to Daria, though.

Maybe he practiced then fell asleep. Who knows?

Being aware of its absurdity is.

no job, still living at home, no skills, etc.) I certainly hope he's considered his situation! <<

He is, that's why he had that talk with Daria.

exactly what he wants to hear, and goes back to thinking he's "not doing that bad." <<

He's not doing "badly", his problem is that he isn't doing much of anything. Yes, Daria told him what he wanted to hear, but she meant it. She's definitely a believer in "following one's star" as opposed to conformity. Part of this, unfortunately, may be due to the fact that she's led a pretty sheltered life. Then again, so has Trent.

him in some bar in an unfamiliar city. <<

Jane's presence here is probably why he doesn't actually do this thing.

practical, authoritative, etc. of the two Lanes. <<

She is. Like I said, in some ways Trent isn't as mature as his age would lead one to believe.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

B_B_England of writes:

All good older siblings do this! They're trying to help you on your way to adulthood, which is a responsibility parents often renege on. My older sibling introduced me to alcohol when I was 15 or 16 during a rock concert at a university students' union. I was a bit worried about getting drunk in some strange place so I said I'd just have half a pint. What did he do? He bought me a half of the strongest beer they had! (Theakston's Old Peculier)

-Shez.

In article ,

LOL, I wish I had an older brother!

Alli

In article , Shez wrote:

You know, I never had the guts to try Old Peculiar when I was over there 8)

Mikel Midnight wrote:

I don't think I've ever tried it. How strong is it anyway?

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

pint.

8)

5.6 %

Bettster He who know pointless facts but can't get a day job.

Bettster wrote in message ...

Old Peculier (correct spelling) has a fearsome reputation, and many of us enjoy it, but there are others of a similar style preferred by many. And stronger.

Like Robinson's Old Tom (8.5%).

There are also occasional ales (brewed for a limited period only), like one I remember enjoying in The Sun in Lamb's Conduit Street in London (fine pub at that time - not presently in the Good Beer Guide AFAICS). It was stronger than any mentioned so far. The brewers hadn't decided on a name, and it was nearly ready for delivery. Then cricketer Ian Botham was busted for smoking or possessing dope: they called the beer "Smokey Botham." It was powerful stuff: the bar stuff were instructed to serve it only in halves, not full pints.

I remember the latter part of that evening only vaguely. The passage of time, I suppose.

Martin.

I wrote in message ...

"Specify the units," I hear my old chemistry techer saying. I should have said that Bettster and I were using ABV (Alcohol by volume) measurement.

Some might be more familiar with "% proof" measurement. Old Tom is 17% proof - weak for a whisky, but for a beer...

Martin.

what is % proof? here in the us, at least, "proof" liquor-wise, refers to twice the percentage of alcohol by volume (i.e. 100 proof bourbon is 50% alcohol by volume. everclear is like, what, 180 proof?) the alcohol content in beer is generally marked as % ABV; i.e. most beers ive seen are about 5% alcohol or thereabouts. i could be wrong. Saerah

AniSaerah wrote in message ...

twice

Yes, I quoted 8.5% ABV and then quoted US proof in case anyone was more familiar with that system. 8-)

In the UK, 100% proof = 57.1% ABV, so, if my arithmetic is right, a 40 proof whisky in a UK bar is 40*57.1/100=~23%ABV = ~46 US proof. A trap for the unwary American visitor! (And for the clueless English visitor to the States, who thinks they've found a bottle of Glenfiddich of a higher proof than they can get at home!) <g>

Martin.

I wrote in message ...

"Specify the units," I hear my old chemistry teacher saying. I should have said that Bettster and I were using ABV (Alcohol by volume) measurement. Sorry, Mr Carberry, Sir!

Some might be more familiar with "% proof" measurement. Old Tom is 17% proof - weak for undiluted whisky, but for a beer...

Martin.

Yeah, being lethargic and/or lost in your own world doesn't mean you're dumb. I knew a guy who spent half his life in bed and the rest of the time practicing flamenco guitar playing. He was extremely intelligent but simply couldn't see the point of doing anything conventional like getting a job or going to college. I can see Daria ending up like him, as I've noticed on a couple of occasions she sounds like she's not enamoured of the idea of higher education, like in Gifted (or was it Daria Hunter?) where she's quite dismissive about college when Helen talks about improving her chances of getting into a good one. Beyond a certain point, intelligence crosses a threshold where you realise there's no point to anything really and it's all just a game, or a sham. This causes some people to drop out and never achieve their potential, as they don't value the things society values. As the saying goes, "even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat".

-Shez.

Shez wrote:

<snip>

This reminds me of what Jake said in the woods in "Don Jake"-- you know, when he and Daria are at the fork in the path... "That path leads to an entry-level job, some money in your pocket, and before you know it you're one of those faceless saps living in a boring little house in a boring little town and doing so well you're in debt up to your disappearing hairline! *That's* where *that* trail leads, Daria." (I don't know if I got it right, but, enh, it's close enough.)

Of course, YMMV. <g>

rich.

Jake: I love camping! I love it! ... Has anybody seen my pants?

paperpusher wrote:

"Oh. I guess that *other* trail leads to personal and spiritual fulfillment. That's why they don't want you to take it." ;-{)>

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"Siento que debemos saber para el sue�o de qui�n brillar� esta luz o consagrar una propia estrella" --Alberto Felici

N.P.:"Hollow Stone"- K h a n / S p a c e S h a n t y

In article ,

LOL, try telling my mother that. She thinks I'm going to fail all my exams because I hate leaving the house. I'm like, no, I'm going to fail my exams because I'm not doing any work; this has nothing to do with my social life or lack thereof...

I haven't heard that one, but it makes sense. :)

Alli (I'm off school ill today - I think my stomach's burning a hole in itself...<g>)

<< B. B. England

I don't think Trent's stupid. Just VERY absorbed in his own obsessions.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

B_B_England wrote:

"And I'll spell my name D-A-R-Y-A, and be crowned Miss America." ;-{)>

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"Parece cosa de maligno. Los pianos no estallan por casualidad." --Gabriel Garcia Marquez

N.P.:"F l o r i a n" - L e O r m e

As the old joke goes: Person 1: Why are we fantasizing about Wilma Flintstone anyway? Person 2: Yeah. we both know she'd never leave Fred

build high for happiness

Jon

(who's really disappointed that tomorrow is our last episode of Daria)

On 22 Feb 1999 14:24:05 GMT, [email] (Jon Andersen) wrote:

Thans. You just triggered an urge to pull out the Red Dwarf tapes *L*

and Daria start dating. Her logic could compliment his artistic nature perfectly. I�m afraid it would be a fleeting thing though. It�s quite likely that Trent would drive Daria nuts after a year or two. << Warren

BOTH of them have some growing up to do. The real stress would come when Trent finally realized he's not a great musician (sorry, Trent fans, but he ISN'T!) and had to decide what to do with his life next. (One possibility being to study music more seriously and BECOME a better musician, of course).

I don't think the breakup (if it happened) would be a calm one (even if it appeared so on the surface). Daria's the sort of person whose emotions run VERY deep.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

JBassior wrote in message ...

Trent

ISN'T!)

Nah... The three chord garage band's been central to American rock and roll for decades. There's no reason to believe that it'll change anytime soon. ;^)

Plenty of people like Trent make it into all levels of the music industry. If the band didn't make it, he'd probably gravitate towards putting on concerts, maybe even starting up a label, something in the business end. You never can tell ;^)

VERY

What makes it difficult to gauge is the difference in communications styles: Trent's excellent with people. He's very sociable and easy going. He's not the kind of person who seems to be very critical of people. Daria on the other hand is catty, bitchy and moody. She has a real problem communicating with anybody other than through criticism or biting sarcasm. Let's face it, Daria would be the one that would be tough to deal with, not Trent... her standards are just too high.

If they did get together and subsequently break up, they'd probably end up dating a few more times before hitting equilibrium and coping with each other or Trent deciding that putting up with Daria's sarcasm just wasn't worth it. After the hostilities died down, they'd probably remain good friends. Also, I suspect they'd still have a thing for each other, but the gulf would just be too great...

However, if they could work through it and hit that balance, then they'd make a great couple. They'd compliment each other perfectly.

Um... Okay, lengthier than I was expecting it to be.

In article , "Chris Seamans" wrote:

In my fanfic continuum I have him get into the production/engineering side of things. The way I see Trent is this: he's got a good ear, he thinks like a musician, but he simply cannot translate the music in his head to his fingers. And that frustrates the hell out of him.

Some musicians can get this translation routine going through sheer concentrated effort...the great Robert Fripp describes where he was when he started playing guitar as being "tone deaf with no sense of rhythm. Thing is, Fripp was blessed with sufficient self-discipline to break through and MAKE his fingers do what his mind wanted. Whereas Trent, OTOH...;-)

In "That Was Then, This Is Dumb" Trent displayed an interest in dissecting what makes music tick. He had no technical knowledge, which explains the lame nature of most of his experiments, but he had the INSTINCT for it.

Once he got the training in sound engineering, he'd be dangerous. Or up for a Grammy, as he is in one of the fanfics I am currently trying to hammer out.

I think that they would remain friends if "relationship" stuff didn't work. Trent is easy-going enough to where he can be friends with his ex-lovers. Look at how he handled Monique in "Pierce Me"...it was obvious that they were making the Beast With Two Backs for a while, and that their relationship ended but their friendship didn't. Body language in that sequence said it all.

--.\\<-H--

In article ,

YAY! Someone mentioned Robert Fripp! :) (wait...gotta get facts straight...he's the one who either worked with David Sylvian or JBK, right?)

(getting back on topic) Oh yeah, and I do agree that Trent has a very good ear for what sounds good (I mean, he even expostulated on minor differences in Zappa's music...hey, anyone who can discuss Zappa intellectually is a friend of mine). I don't know if he'd really not be able to translate that into tangible recorded results (i.e. base a recording career on that), but he does have a dang good ear for music.

And IMO he has a nice voice. Even in "[address]". So there ya go.

Oh, but then again I'm female and think that if Trent were a real person I'd consider him a hottie, so of course I'd think he has a nice voice *blush*. I mean, I'd go completely wild if a cartoonized version of myself were to get a private concert with Trent -- wait, not Trent, must think of Daria, someone who LOOKS and, well, is kinda LIKE Trent but not Trent himself. Oh...my...*g*. :)

deena lissa

"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

In article , deena lissa wrote:

Fripp worked with David Sylvian, he's currently the driving force behind King Crimson and Projekt 2, he's worked with great artists like Brian Eno, David Bowie and Peter Gabriel, and is married to Toyah Willcox, post-punk diva.

Hey, one of my first crushes -- ever -- was on Zonker Harris, the stoner/slacker guy in the comic strip Doonesbury. It happens. I was something like 10 or 11, though.

--.\\<-H--

In article ,

YAY! So my mind WASN'T playing tricks with me. I just said "JBK" to cover my ass. I knew Fripp had something to do with a member of Japan and wanted to say David Sylvian but wasn't exactly sure. I'd heard about his work with King Crimson...hm...never heard of Projekt 2...must investigate.

David Bowie AND Brian Eno? Cool. Knew about Bowie...didn't know about Eno.

Yeah, I'd heard of his marriage to Toyah. She was really successful in the UK, right? Won some music publication's readers' awards, right?

Um...I forgot what else I was going to post...oops. I'll come back when I've remembered. :)

deena lissa

"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

i'm gonna meet the guy that draws dooenbury in like three or four weeks.. keep in mind, this is the person that DRAWS, doonesbury, not the guy that writes it.. still, mind if i mention that too him? he might get a kick out of it.

i think i get an advance on sunday's doonesbury, too. : D

It was freaky, but in "Write whereit hurts", in the Jane Austin story, I couldn't believe it was Trent. The guy doing him sounds so totally different when he speaks in complete and erudite sentances.

build high for happiness

Jon

me too! Saerah

but he simply cannot translate the music in his head to his fingers. And that frustrates the hell out of him. << Michelle Klein-Hass

I agree. I think Trent is intelligent but extroverted only where music is concerned; he loves music but has diffiulty expressing himself properly as a musician. It's obvious he writes all the lyrics for Mystic Spiral, and though amateurish they do have some intellectual depth to them. He's also smart enough to appreciate Daria's intelligence, as shown by his actually listening to her advice in "Road Worrier".

Especially after he read *Atlas Shrugged* and built the Harmonizer <g> ...

Maybe someday ...

Trent is easy-going enough to where he can be friends with his ex-lovers. Look at how he handled Monique in "Pierce Me"...it was obvious that they were making the Beast With Two Backs for a while, and that their relationship ended but their friendship didn't. <<

Trent's easy-going enough, I'm not so sure about Daria. The way she normally represses her emotions, I suspect that there's a seething and explosive core in there. Remember who her parents are ...

Plus, Monique struck me as a party girl type, not very serious about relationships. Daria if anything is a bit of a prude, judging by her reactions to seeing others in sexual situations. I suspect she'd take a love affair VERY seriously.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

[email] (JBassior) wrote:

Yeah, she strikes me as the sort to hold a grudge-- right here, at the weaker part of the neck. <g> But that's why she has her emotional armor of sarcasm and cynicism-- it protects her as well as everyone else from her more intense and also at the same time vulnerable side.

Oh, yeah. Like I said above, I'd *hate* to be on her bad side. <g>

rich.

Jane: You know, I don't know why people say we have a bad attitude.

Daria: Screw 'em.

I don't think it's so much that she'd seek revenge as that she would find it very difficult to stay friends with him in that event. Too much anger, both at him and herself, for the situation to be socially comfortable.

protects her as well as everyone else from her more intense and also at the same time vulnerable side. <<

She couldn't maintain this distance with Trent if they were lovers. She can barely do it now, and they're just friends.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

<< Chris Seamans

Most of them are either more compliant than Trent or a whole lot better musically. Trent can neither sing nor play particularly well ... if we are to assume that he does have talent (and he certainly cares about what his music) then he needs a whole lot more practice.

I've listened to grunge rock (heck, I've listened a bit to every style of rock there is) and Trent simply isn't that good. Neither is the rest of his band. He does have a passion and imagination which could carry him far IF he works at it.

If he doesn't, he's going nowhere musically.

You're dead right on about the difference in communications styles, though, and the potential problems this could cause.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

JBassior wrote:

The fact that Trent's band is so bad *is* the joke. Like Spinal Tap or the Cartoon Planet Band, for example.

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"Parece cosa de maligno. Los pianos no estallan por casualidad." --Gabriel Garcia Marquez

N.P.:"F l o r i a n" - L e O r m e

In article ,

the

"Ow! My nose! Ow! My face! Ooooo-ooooo-owwww-wwwwww!"

[email] wrote:

"My poor old heart, you're givin' it freezer-burn!"

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"The only completely consistent people are dead" --Aldous Huxley

N.P.:"Dans le Doute"- M i n i m u m V i t a l / E n v o l T r i a n g l e s

In article , "Chris Seamans" wrote:

Ah yes, how could anyone do better than the Ramones? "Five great albums, three great chords!"

In article ,

it

Wow. I'm glad someone agrees with me on that point. I've been thinking over doing a fanfic where Daria is being critical of Trent's music, only to find out that he can hear her, but it'll have to wait until some of my work subsides...

My friend Betsey can go on about that for quite a while "He would be hot, I mean, if he was a guy"... of course part of this is since she's obsessed with the guitar (she plays guitar) she also likes guys who play gutar.

Now, now: you've gotta remember that that doesn't mean anything. Really. Think about the most "cruel" characters on the show: Sandi and Quinn. And Quinn wears a shirt with a smiley face on it. Compare this to Trent, he does favors for Jane and Daria (mostly driving them around), is the only one who manages to actually help Daria in "The Misery Chick", and basically doesn't care what people think so he's not as competitive as Sandi and Quinn.

I guess the message of all this (and a lot of Daria) is not to judge people by their appearances.

Remember Daria is a sort of artist as well, since she's a writer, so she appreciates people like Jane and Trent who are artists as opposed to her sister who sees great art as "those cute cat pictures on the shopping channel" (not that she'd ever waste money on art)

Sorry I can't help you there, I don't know any real life Darias. I'm a little like her, but I'm her age. And notice I said "a little" I share some characteristics, but not others.

Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony

Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche

I'm a little like her also and the right age, but I'm already married. I have a sister who's just like me but she's only seventeen.

Lanie

Dotty: Did you have a nice evening? Amanda: It was pretty quiet. Just me and my popcorn and my book. (Dotty looks at the book) Dotty: You know you're a lot like I am. You love to read a good dictionary.

Warren wrote:

LOL, "after a year or two"? <g> Who'd put up with him for *that* long? :)

cl wrote:

Erm, Trent's a bit skinny....

Trent's emaciated, even compensating for the style in which all the characters are drawn. So is Jane.

They're both people I wouldn't mind knowing if they were real, though. Trent is really a good guy, and Jane has a wicked imagination.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

JBassior wrote:

They're almost as bad as me! ;)

Trent always seems to me to be a bit....slow. Jane's funny, though.

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

Trent's not as slow as it would seem. Watch him carefully. He's a real "people person." He *knows* people. That's his... gift.

As evidenced in "The Misery Chick" when Daria went to the Lane house to see why Jane was avoiding her...

D: "Did Trent know you were here?" J: "I told him to say that I was out running. What a surprise. He forgot." D: "No. He didn't."

Jeg7777 wrote in message ...

Also in "Pierce Me" when Jane and Daria are talking by the Lane family front door and he avoids coming in at the wrong moment and humiliating Daria.

See, Daria doesn't realize it, but Trent *does* know she likes him...

Chris Seamans

I would suspect so. Among the many reasons he might not consider it wise to act on this knowledge:

Trent's whole life is about being a laid back musician and avoiding heavy emotional committments. There is no way he could get involved with Daria casually. She's his sister's best friend, someone he probably thinks of as "a nice kid", and she is emotional intensity personified under her veneer of cynicism. Oh yes, and a virgin to boot ... actually, has she ever had ANY kind of boyfriend?

Trent actually likes Daria as a person (this is made abundantly clear to everyone except Daria herself, who chooses to assume that nobody likes her), and he wouldn't want to hurt her. And remember that he's planning on leaving Lawndale.

Daria's a bit young for him. Though the age gap will mean less as they both get a bit older. What is she now ... 16, 17? She might still technically be jail bait, and remember who her mother is and how she tends to react to perceived insults to her family ...

Give it time. If the show survives long enough, I suspect we'll see this subplot develop further.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

[email] (JBassior) wrote:

<buncha stuff snipped for brevity's sake>

Some of y'all will most likely hate me for the following, but I felt it *had* to be said before this speculation spins out into orbit. I don't mean it in a mean way, I'm just trying to keep the discussion grounded in terms of reality. (Which is difficult when discussing a cartoon.) <g>

I understand that many viewers love the D/T angle, and I don't think any viewer wishes to see Daria have to endure the pain of unrequited attraction. (It ain't love yet, it's puppy love -- real love is a whole different dynamic, but I digress.) And I know that many would like to see her have a "happy ending," hell, I love happy endings, too, but...

It's time for a reality check. How many of you would realistically expect to get seriously involved with someone you had a crush on when you were 16-17, who knew of that crush, and gave you no indication or direction to "come hither?" Most of you, I daresay, would Take The Hint and move on. (I hope so, at least-- it's just not healthy to cling to an unrealistic attraction in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence.)

While the Age Difference is an issue, it's a minor one (sorry about the pun). Mr. L. hasn't made one solitary move, other than going back to sleep. I bet he probably never will, either-- he's obviously not interested in that way (unless he is clueless in a pitiful kind of way). The feeling I get is that she's like his other kid sister-- someone to look out for, and nurture as a *friend*. If he was interested in another way, he would've made a move or said *something.* I mean, come on, he may be clueless, but he's a guy. Guys will always make moves when interested. It's part of our "generic makeup." <g>

We've all had crushes, some didn't work out, and we all hopefully learned Valuable Lessons about ourselves. (Well, at least I hope you did-- I know I did.) Reality is that when you're 17 (and Daria is now 17 in season 3, BTW), you haven't had enough experience to know what you'll really need/want in a *real* relationship. (Not like an idealized one, when no one ever farts, hiccups, or has a zit.) <g> That's why you flail around for a while-- sometimes forming brief relationships, sometimes longer ones. Most of these early relationships have definite life spans when you're young until you figure out what it is you need to sustain you emotionally and to form normal, stable intimacies. It's perfectly normal and natural -- you have to figure out the whole "relationship thing" -- how it works for you, what you will/will not tolerate, what you will/will not sacrifice, what you will/will not compromise.

If you want the cartoon to be realistic (as many demand), well, that's what realism demands-- a reality check. If you want a fairy tale, well, that's nice and all, but it doesn't really teach you anything that you can use in your everyday life, like-- "Hey, it's ok if it doesn't work out-- I'm still young, and I'll find the right person/place/thing for me, but I will not try to be someone that I am not."

Of course, I might be wrong, and they might take the show in a completely different direction. That's fine by me, as they usually do a fine job of steering through the rocks. Either way, I'll be satisfied-- that either reality is served, or that someone gets to be an exception to the general rule. But all I ask is that we try to keep it a little more realistic, folks. <g>

Well, my laundry's *finally* done, so I can go to bed now. Gah! rich.

Brittany: Shut up, naked boy!

Dear Rich,

The whole Daria-Trent thing could go either way. At the present it is obviously merely a crush on an "older man" who is too scrupulous to take advantage of a young girl he likes and respects, but people grow older, they change, and things change ... in more than one possible direction.

It's fairly obvious from hints dropped here and there that Trent has a sex life. He might find a steady girlfriend and Daria might then give up on him.

Daria's might find a boyfriend her own age and give up on Trent.

Either (or both) of the above might happen, the relationship (s) then fail and Daria and Trent LATER become romantically involved.

They could be overcome by mutual lust the very next episode and do the horizontal rhumba. (Improbable, but stranger things happen every day in the real world, let alone Lawndale).

Daria and Trent could decide they never want to have anything to do with each other ever again.

A friendship might slowly develop and deepen into romantic and sexual love.

The whole thing might never go anywhere ... Daria might be pining after Trent when she's in her 20's.

These are just some of the possibilities, and since I'm not the show's writer I don't know which (if any) of them is going to come true. My personal opinon is that they're going with the "friendship slowly develop and deepen" routine, but that's based mostly on the fact that Trent seems to take Daria more seriously than he would most high schoolers.

As for Daria "realistically expecting" to get involved with Trent, she doesn't. If you notice, even in her fantasies Trent rejects her!

The Age Difference isn't a minor one ... Trent could be imprisoned simply for kissing her passionately (welcome to the Sick Sad World of statuatory rape law, which treats a "minor" as a "jail bait" even if just on the other side of "legal"). And if I were in Trent's shoes and I was feeling lustful I would think long and hard about the fact that Helen Morgendorfer is a lawyer and a rather touchy individual. But I agree that if Trent really felt for Daria he wouldn't let this stand in his way.

I think Trent realizes on some level that Daria is attracted to him, I think he's just too much of a gentleman to take advantage of the siutation. If he's paid attention at all (and the evidence is that he has) he must realize that Daria is very romantically inexperienced and vulnerable under all that cynicism, and that a "casual" relationship, parting with no hard feelings when he wants to move out of Lawndale, would be virtually impossible. He likes and feels protective towards Daria, so he would not want to hurt her, and he loves his sister and knows that Jane would be very angry at him if he treated her best (and virtually only) friend like that.

It's pretty obvious from the piercing episode that Trent has casual sexual relationships with women his own age or older, who are neither as vulnerable nor as emotionally intense as Daria. So from his viewpoint, the obvious thing to do is to be nice to Daria, help her be self-confident every chance he gets (which is what we've seen him doing), and do NOT behave sexually towards her (he hasn't, it's not his fault that Daria's so gone on him that she gets flustered if he simply touches her arm).

It's also pretty obvious that Jane would like to see Trent and Daria get together. This is not because Jane wants to see Daria hurt, it's simply because she loves both of them and thinks they would be good together. Jane isn't necessarily a good judge of this, though, despite her veneer of sophistication and occasional make-out sessions, she doesn't strike me as particularly experienced either, and she's probably underestimates the depth of Trent's fear of commitment. There's probably a good deal of wishful thinking in her desire to see the only two people she actually enjoys the company of become a couple.

Everyone seems to be simply assuming that Trent is "mature" simply because he's 21 or 22, but the evidence is that he isn't. He loves music but doesn't practice hard enough, he refuses to get a job, and he avoids sexual committment (so much so that one fanfic postulated that he was gay ... almost certainly untrue). I actually think that in a lot of ways Daria's more mature than he is ... a potential source of future conflict, incidentally.

Daria's main problem in dealing with Trent is her emotional naivete; she has very high standards for herself (some of which have never been seriously tested) which she also applies to the people she knows. (She was clearly shocked when she caught Jane with Upchuck in the closet one episode, if you remember). She probably doesn't realize that Trent IS truly lazy, and this alone could sink their friendship (let alone hypothetical love affair).

Like I said before ... they both have some growing up to do.

The main reason I think that the writers will develop the romantic plot further is that it makes both dramatic and logical sense. Dramatic sense, because Trent is the closest thing the show has to a male "lead". Logical sense, because while Trent knows a lot of other girls, he clearly likes Daria, and she's his sister's best friend and thus likely to encounter him frequently.

But I don't expect the situation to be resolved this season. Both for logical reasons, and because it's just too good as an ongonig source of fan interest. As witness the length of this post.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

In "The Invitation", Jane was NOT in the closet with Upchuck, she was with "Bobbie Big-Head"

Prindora

Prindora wrote in message ...

And that's spelled "Bobby", not "Bobbie." "Bobbie is the way girls spell it, often with a little smiley face dotting the "i". "Bobby" is the way us "Manly" GUYS spell it, unless we decide to just drop it and go with the more palindromic "Bob" instead.

We will now play "Bobby's Girl", over and over, until everyone gets it right. <G>

Bob

Now now. The only Bobbie I know would never dot her "i" with a smiley.

Which must be an inherited thing like my uncle Bob and his daughter Anna

Although "Bobbie's Girl" might be more PC

Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony

Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697

"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche

R. K. Henry wrote:

The Marcie Blane version or the Susan Maughan version? ;-{)>

Master of popular music minutiae...

MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

make GEORYN disappear to reply

"Siento que debemos saber para el sue�o de qui�n brillar� esta luz o consagrar una propia estrella" --Alberto Felici

N.P.:"Hollow Stone"- K h a n / S p a c e S h a n t y

<interesting points snipped for brevity's sake.> <long post ahead>

I think that maybe a lot of people are reading *way* too much into this. He's now 22, she's now 17 (2 seasons=1 year)-- there's a big ol' gulf in life experience between them-- I'm not implying that he's more emotionally mature, but he's done a *whole lot* more than she has-- those 5 years are a very busy time, believe me. <g> Hell, if he'd gone to College, he'd've been done by now, and out on his own. (Or maybe hiding in grad school.) <g> And when she does go to college, I can make a pretty safe bet it'll be as far away from Lawndale as she can get.

I sincerely doubt that anyone with the strength of character of someone like Daria would find herself pining for Trent well into her 20s. Trust me, when she gets to college, she'll find someone else. It's human nature, and there are a whole lot of other humans out there with similar interests, even if a lot of them are jerks. <g>

I remember some of my HS friends trying to keep long-distance relationships going in their Freshman year of College, and of all of those relationships, all but one ended before Winter Break (and that one didn't end because they both wound up at the same school-- they even got married--- of course, they broke up a few times first, but they eventually worked everything out as mature adults, but they're *still* the Exception to the Rule.)

While *in theory* they could get involved at a later date if nothing happened now, I kinda doubt that the show would go *that far* into the future. (Not that I wish the show ill, but nothing lasts forever. The center doesn't hold.)

As for Trent not being mature, well, I have a few friends who are professional musicians, and let me tell you, I know why Trent's always asleep-- if your band is playing with any kind of regularity, you're always on the road, getting in at about 5-6 AM if you're *lucky.* Trent's not lazy or narcoleptic, he's just tired (if MS tours as much as we're led to believe.) Musicians are creatures of the night-- it's just the way it is. And while he may have other relationships going, again, if he's playing gigs full-time, he won't have that much time for them *and* sleep. <g>

And, yes, I think it is kinda cute the way she acts goofy around him-- the way she loses some of her reserve is kind of endearing, but that's only one facet of her character. A very complex character with many more facets than just this one, I might add.

And I'm sure that Jane would love to play matchmaker, but, again, that's not a good enough reason to start a potentially entangling relationship, especially when someone like Trent is liable to wind up anywhere in a year or two, and someone like Daria is liable to wind up 1,000 miles away in a year or two. And I think that he's fully aware of that as well. We live in a much more mobile, and more unpredictable society these days. (Believe me, I know all about that. *sigh*)

Maybe he'll go for her, maybe he won't. I don't know, but I'm sure they've got something planned for the show. And don't be surprised if it gets resolved sooner than you think, too. All I'm saying is don't get your hopes up. And don't get so fixated on this particular plotline that it ruins your enjoyment of the show, because there's a hell of a lot more to Daria than the dude she thinks is kinda cute at the moment. (And that's not necessarily directed at you, but to others reading this thread.)

Oh, and Michelle's right-- in most jurisdictions, the age of consent is 16, but this is not legal advice, as I'm not admitted to most jurisdictions, only NC. Oh, and no attorney-client privilege exists between us, too. (sorry, had to say that.)

Okay, now I gotta go and throw people around a room for a few hours, so I'm gonna have to cut this shorter than I'd like.

rich.

Jane: Usually when I have this dream I'm wearing pink taffeta.

Rich91

Well, the writers keep putting them in this situation, and everyone keeps talking about it ...

Daria would find herself pining for Trent well into her 20s. <<

Probbly not. I was merely trying to give an example of stuff that *could* happen. The whole thing will go whatever way the writers want it to, and there's no way to tell *which* way, really.

She may well. Daria would be a lot happier at college, where it's easier to find other people with similar interests.

She might get involved with Trent *before* she goes to college. In which case the long-distance relationship would create some interesting tension. But I don't think the series will last that long (sorry fans, but that's the reality of series TV).

They did this plot on Roseanne, you might remember ...

Maybe a bit of all of the above.

One wonders ... MS isn't very good ...

that's not a good enough reason to start a potentially entangling relationship, especially when someone like Trent is liable to wind up anywhere in a year or two, and someone like Daria is liable to wind up 1,000 miles away in a year or two. And I think that he's fully aware of that as well. <<

Yes ... I think this is one of the BIG reasons he doesn't just "go for it" like one of the earlier posters suggested "any guy would.". He doesn't think it would work out in the long run.

they've got something planned for the show. And don't be surprised if it gets resolved sooner than you think, too. <<

Probably by Trent explaining to Daria why they can't be more than friends, or something like that.

particular plotline that it ruins your enjoyment of the show <<

I'm not. Everyone just responded to it, and I like discussions.

kinda cute at the moment. <<

Yes. I agree.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

[email] (JBassior) wrote:

No, I never got into that show, but I can imagine that it probably didn't end well...

Well, just because they don't write good original stuff doesn't mean that they can't play covers-- a good bar band knows when to try their own stuff, and when to play covers, take the money, and get out in one piece. <g>

That was me that pointed it out-- but it's true-- if a guy's interested, he'll make a move of some sort or find a way to express his interest *somehow* -- it doesn't always equate to a proposition-- it could just be "Hey, I want to ask you something..."

A pretty safe bet, IMHO, although I have to admit that the hopeless Romantic in me wishes her well. <g>

As do I, but this particular thread has a tendency to get beaten to death whenever new eps come out. <g> Not that I don't mind discussing it, I just hope that everyone keeps a foot plated on Terra Firma. <g>

Precisely. <g> I'll have to tell that story sometime, but not now-- I'm getting typer's cramp, and I'm sore from throwing people around the room (and being thrown around the room by them as well.) <g>

rich.

Mr. O'Neill: Let's pledge to make Daria's dream a reality!

Daria: You mean the one where people walking down the street burst into flames?

Mr. O'Neill: The coffeehouse!

end well.. << Rich

Darlene Conner went off to college, cheated on her fiancee, dumped him for a new boyfriend, then after being dumped by the new boyfriend dated some other guys (don't know how far any of it went) and then wanted to get back with her former fiancee. Fortunately for her, he still loved her and in the end they got married.

Messy, but real life can be that way too.

they can't play covers-- a good bar band knows when to try their own stuff, and when to play covers, take the money, and get out in one piece. <g> <<

Maybe. Without some more practice, MS's best plan is to play really loud to totally stoned crowds and hope nobody really listens. Daria and Jane may like them, but they're both prejudiced.

he'll make a move of some sort or find a way to express his interest *somehow* -- it doesn't always equate to a proposition-- it could just be "Hey, I want to ask you something..." <<

Men are capable of choosing not to make a play for a particular girl, you know, and the series implies that Trent is finding physical satisfaction elsewhere. The fact that Trent does *like* Daria makes him *less* likely to try to casually take advantage of her. The fact that she's his sister's best friend means that there'd be domestic consequences to himself if he treated her badly.

And I really read Trent as being a nice guy. He wouldn't *want* to hurt someone.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

paperpusher wrote in message ...

Yeah, but I've seen it happen. Hell, I've been involved in a long term relationship with a wider gulf than that! ;^)

Most likely. Then again, we know that Lawndale is the 'burbs, we don't know what city they are local to. <Just tossing some more wood on the fire here ;^) >

Stranger things have happened.

I don't think anybody said anything to the contrary.

The only problem is that I suspect that Trent is a bit more than "the dude she thinks is kinda cute at the moment." That kind of trivializes a rather important part of her character.

In article , "Chris Seamans" wrote:

Um...yeah...like this one relationship I'm in (actually, there is only the one), I'm...um...there's a ten year age difference. And...um...I'm the younger one. And it's been going on for several months now. Sooo...the person I'm dating is...he's...30. And I'm...like I said earlier, I'm...20. *gulp*

(whew...why was that so hard to admit?)

But...I am in agreement that we shouldn't read too much into the future of Daria and Trent. I am rooting for them, yes, but it would be very hard for them to be able to connect with each other for a long-term relationship. Daria's not like that, and neither is Trent. Maybe if their personalities were different, they would probably connect and have a nice, long-term relationship. But not the way they are and who they are.

I'd love for them to at least be really close friends and confidants, though. I'm sure Trent wouldn't mind giving out relationship advice to his kid sister's best friend. Or any other type of advice he could give her, in fact.

deena lissa

"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

Actually, I think that *Daria* is exactly the sort of person who is likely to have long term relationships, if she's careful about who she falls in love with. She's not well suited for casual flings, she's way too emotionally repressed and intense.

What I find difficult to see is *Trent* committing to a relationship. Trent is a nice guy and a gentleman, but what this means is that he doesn't get involved with a girl whom he thinks is looking for something more than he can give. He wants to be a touring rock star, which is not a lifestyle well suited to marriage.

It is precisely because I believe Trent likes and understands Daria that he won't get involved with her. He wouldn't want to hurt her, and he has enough maturity to realize that she *would* get badly hurt.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

In article ,

True, but I was agreeing with those people who just didn't see her continually obsessed with Trent. She'll probably still remember the significance of her feelings toward Trent, as well as work toward making sure they stay close friends (I don't think she's shallow about friendship, as she is not the shallow type about relationships), but she doesn't seem to be the type to hold onto a puppy love for long.

I do think she and Trent will be lifelong friends, though. Same with her friendship with Jane.

involved

I want to see him try, though. He IS a gentleman, yes. Sadly, though, I can see myself agreeing to that last statement. Then again, there have been a number of successful rock marriages throughout the years. Paul and Linda McCartney were very happily married for a long time. Jerry Lee Lewis' marriage might have been controversial, but it lasted a long time as well. Billy Joel and Christie Brinkley were very happy together but were only torn apart because of a major financial crisis; I think they're still good friends. Then you have Ric Ocasek and Paulina Porizokova (sp?). Simon LeBon and Yasmin Parvaneh also have a happy rock n' roll marriage. (just had to insert a Duran reference there) So there could be some hope -- slight as it may be, there's still that hope. :)

Probably, if Trent can't see himself committing. Like I said, though, they probably could end up lifelong friends.

Good points all.

deena lissa

"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?

Trent, as well as work toward making sure they stay close friends (I don't think she's shallow about friendship, as she is not the shallow type about relationships), but she doesn't seem to be the type to hold onto a puppy love for long. << Deena Lissa

I agree, which is why I think that her relationship with Trent will either develop into a lifelong friendship or into true romantic love. Just *which* is up to the writers.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

[email] (JBassior) wrote:

And it has already been mentioned by Michelle (who interviewed Susie and Glenn for an upcoming issue of Toon Magazine, which should be coming out soon) that this will be dealt with "once and for all" in season three, but probably not until late in the second half (the timing's my guess, and it follows the patterns set in seasons one and two.) "Once and for all" tends to make me think that y'all shouldn't get your hopes up-- but then again, they didn't say how it would turn out, only that it would be resolved, and that "Trent won't be hit by a goalpost." <g> (But to me, I tend to believe that nothing more than a friendship will develop, but that's because I'm always looking for that Smoky Gray lining in every cloud.) <g>

cynically, rich.

Jane: You know, I don't know why people say we have a bad attitude.

Daria: Screw 'em.

On 22 Feb 1999 13:33:06 GMT, [email] (JBassior) wrote:

<snip>

???!!! When did this happen?! I don't remember.

This makes sense, but hasn't it been stated that the Treant-Daria situation WOULD be resolved this season? If this is the case, either there will be a moment of sudden passion, resulting in the crumbling of the walls on both sides (and a sight of potential not currently evident because of the walls), or Treat will realize that she needs a realistic outlook, and explain to her that while he respects her a great deal, she's just plain too young right now.

16 is the age of consent in MOST, States of the Union...I live in Hawaii and it is 14...so...ya never know...

In article , [email] (JBassior) wrote:

Both Trent and Jane not only avoid heavy emotional commitments...they are emotionally handicapped in that department. When your parents are absentees for most of your life you wind up psychologically impaired in the ability to form attachments to others. It's called "Attachment Disorder." They both know intellectually that their parents love them, but deep subconsciously they have been questioning it for all their lives.

Yeah. Trent's basically a nice person and more than anything he enjoys the intellectual stimulation he gets hanging out with Daria. And she makes him laugh, which is something that's hard to do.

both get

Well, in most of the Southern Eastern Seaboard states, the age of consent is 16. Since we have been treated to a hurricane (dubiously, sad to say) it is safe to say that Lawndale is below the Mason-Dixon line and close enough to the Atlantic coast to where a hurricane would affect them.

Actually in Connecticut, where I have placed Lawndale for the sake of my fanfic continuum, the age of consent is also 16.

However, the fact that she is "legal" doesn't mean that this doesn't introduce an element of conflict in Trent's feelings for her. Even though the technical age of consent might be reached, there is still an awkwardness for someone of Trent's age dating someone who cannot vote or drink legally.

Then again, I forwarded a post on this newsgroup suggesting a resolution to the D/T "thing" (Daria and Trent finally go to bed together and Trent promptly falls asleep) to Susie Lewis, co-creator of "Daria." Her response was "Very funny, but IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN."

So ultimately the Trent Estrogen Brigade will be denied the Big Payoff. So we will be subjected to mushy soft-focus fanfics with Trent and Daria hooking up, but nothing like this will ever happen in the Canonical Daria Universe.

Take care,
--.\\<-H--

Chris Seamans wrote:

Yeah, but he has a duck telephone. <g>

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

Hey, what's wrong with that? <g>

Chris Seamans wrote:

Well, nothing, really. I just think that a phone is for calling people, not

for... being shaped like a duck.... I suspect that most of my friends would love to have a duck phone, although, as I said, I don't go in for stupid telephones.....

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

But it *quacks* instead of ringing!

It *QUACKS*.

That's just too cool <g>.

Chris Seamans wrote:

LMAO!

I should probably shut up about this one; I used to have an alarm clock that was shaped like a rooster that went "COCKADOODLEDOO!" until you hit it on the head every morning.... but that *was* when I was eight years old, I should add!

endless, nameless wrote in message ...

There was an alarm clock someone almost bought me one Christmas (I'm kind of irked that she didn't). It was in the shape of a chicken, and it was made in some (presumably) Asian country...

It would screech in an ungodly voice, "Wake up, wake up you sreepy head!" (Yes, that's "sreepy," not "sleepy").

Okay. Um... that's my appliance in the shape of a bird story.

On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:26:12 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

Bwahahah!

Erm... I just found that funny, considering from whom it comes...

Tarvok wrote:

Yes, immense hypocrisy, I know.... but he is!

(new person- sorry for butting in here..) Trent is.. well let's put it this way, he's really REALLY good looking and he has one of those personalities.. You just have to watch for it! And IMHO he may be skinny, but that doesn't change the fact that he and Daria are a totally good couple... And duck phones are cool! ^_^ I would get one only it doesn't do with my room, so I'll stick to my pig on the wall and all the Anime posters strewn around... :) Maybe I'm juvenile, but it's FUN! <g> (Kay back to subject here..) Maybe Trent and Daria would need to acclimatize a little, but if you figure that they wouldn't get together til Daria's an adult anyway, they both will have grown up a little by then, and you never know what would happen, maybe Daria would get a little bit comfortable with Trent? Just some wonderful peanut gallery comments here.. Kay, bye people!

Mouse

that they wouldn't get together til Daria's an adult anyway ... << Elionwy

Which she will be in one year, show universe time, remember ...

that they wouldn't get together til Daria's an adult anyway, they both will have grown up a little by then, and you never know what would happen, maybe Daria would get a little bit comfortable with Trent? <<

I can easily see that.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

How cool is this, my first post and i get, what 20 replies in a day? i'm guessing trent is pretty popular (dahh). Thanks.

Later, Anne

Trent's so awesome! I just wanted to say that first... Ok, I wanted to make a comment about the comment that somebody else made that Daria's standards are too high and Trent would annoy the hell out of her. Daria feels at ease around Trent, she even gets nervous around him. Around Quinn she does embarassing stuff on purpose. Her standards are high, but I think she knows that she can let her guard down around Trent.

SemiShel wrote:

Erm, that's kinda a contradiction in terms....

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:28:39 +0000, "endless, nameless" wrote:

Gotta say it:

"That doesn't sound right." -- Trent in "Daria!"

:-)

Martin (to send E-mail, remove the "nospam" from my E-mail address) ---- Quinn: "When they got nervous, they'd drink cocoa." Helen: "Now, sweetie, there's nothing to worry about." (door slams) "Looters!" ---- Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria! http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/