Mike Quinn's Delayed Action Review for Episode #505 The Story Of D

Mike's new review is out.

http://www.homestead.com/mdrr/season5.html

Firah

At last! Mike's Delayed Action Review for "The story of D" is out! I wondered when it would come out. Obviously, Mike liked it well enough.

Next up is his review for "Lucky Strike"! I'll be looking forward to it, whenever it comes out!

Belle Book

"Belle Book" wrote in message news:[email]...

wondered

Oh yeah! So did I.

If 'Lucky Strike' never happened 'The Story Of D' would have been my second favorite episode of Season 5.

As it stands it's in third place.

Oh yeah. I'm definitely waiting for Mr. Quinn's take on that episode.

In order not to short shrift Wraith at this Sick Sad World site, he has a pretty good review of 'Lucky Strike' and most of Season 5 as well.

www.ssw.net/ssw

Firah

Hey guys, guess what... it's already out!

http://mdrr.homestead.com/mdrr559.html

Adam

"Firah" wrote in message news:dOGK6.15881$[email]...

second

it,

Thanks Adam!

I just got a mail from Mike and he says he will be posting his review for 'Art Burn' sometime this weekend.

It seems that Mike can't post to the ng right now but he can read it.

He hasn't gone away...

Firah

"Adam Spradlin" wrote in message news:ZeIK6.54187$[email]...

message

a

He's been churning out a full-length review other day or so recently. I guess I wouldn't have time to post either under the circumstances.

We enjoy 'em, Mike!

M Man

Adam Spradlin wrote:

Thanks! I saw it, I loved it! Now if only Mike had given us an answer to the question "Did Quinn have any idea of what Mr. Edwards was up to?" If she did, she might've tried getting her mother's attention by going into that speed-rant (she definitely got Daria's attention).

Belle Book

Quinn definitely knew what Edwards was up to. She was dancing around the subject much too skillfully to be doing so by accident.

I'm not positive Tiffany knew, at least right away. I don't think she's smart enough to deliberately come up that line about gardening.

M Man

M Man wrote:

I seriously doubt Tiffany knew, either. She's not smart enough to come up with the gardening line on purpose. In fact, that's why I lol at that line -- the contrast between Tiffany's complete obliviousness and my knowledge that Mr. Edwards was up to no good was sheer brilliance on the part of the writer! So, I'd say Tiffany didn't realize what Mr. Edwards was trying to do to her, though Quinn apparently did.

Belle Book

Belle Book said:

the

One of the humorous themes in that whole scene was that Edwards' seduction attempt went completely over Tiffany's head. I would presume, given Tiffany's appearance and the fact that she goes on dates and _doesn't_ have a noticably bad "reputation," that she _is_ able to recognize and fend off male advances -- but she's used to very obvious, clumsy physical advances, not to anything intellectual. Furthermore, it wouldn't have worked anyway, since Tiffany's stereotyping of people is so extreme that she would never consider a relationship with a "teacher," anyway.

Ironically, someone who a _subtler_ and _more sincere_ version of that approach _might_ have worked on was _Quinn_ -- Quinn was smart enough to realize that Edwards' was coming on to Tiffany, but (unfortunately for Edwards) also perceptive enough to realize that Edwards was trying to exploit her, and caring enough about Tiffany to tell Helen about this so that Edwards would be fired. Note that Quinn herself fell for a college-aged guy in _IIFY_, and one who fell _outside_ her normal stereotypes of desirability.

Edwards goes on at the end about "Tiffany! I hardly knew ye!", but the irony there is that he didn't really know Tiffany because he didn't really want to know Tiffany, and if he _had_ really known Tiffany he wouldn't have been attracted to her. All he saw was Tiffany's porno-dream exterior -- he totally missed her deep stupidity, vanity, and selfishness. And because he addressed himself to his fantasy-image of her personality, he not only failed but never even had the ghost of a chance.

Knowing Tiffany, she probably "fends them off" with sincere (!) complaints about her hair being messed, makeup smeared, clothes wrinkled, etc.

... bringing to mind the minister in "I Don't" and his come-on to Quinn. He was certainly subtler, though not necessarily more sincere. Quinn seemed to sense something wasn't quite right with him, but hadn't quite figured it out. Though Daria and Garrett both did.

Although David was not trying to come on to Quinn.

Why?

Is he capable of seeing more? The fact that he's still mooning over Tiffany after being fired instead of worrying about his situation indicates he's either really stupid or lives in a complete dream world. Or both.

Would Edwards *want* someone intelligent?

M Man
________

Luhrman (to Brian): I'm sorry, what did you say you do? I heard 'intelligence', but that can't be right.

M Man wrote:

She probably does hold them off in that exact manner, come to think of it.

Out of curiosity, what gave you the impression that Quinn seemed to sense something wasn't quite right with him? Was it the fact that she stayed with Garrett after the fight was over?

He sure wasn't! In fact, iirc, once he realized she'd fallen for him, he brought her back to earth very quickly (and unfortunately, rather painfully).

I'd say he's not the brightest light bulb on the circuit, but his biggest problem is that he lives in a complete dream world, where she's a completely innocent flower just waiting for a man like himself to make her blossom. Come to think of it, from what I've heard, that seems to have been the big problem with the protagonist in the novel Lolita -- he fails to see the real Lolita throughout much of the story.

No, I doubt Mr. Edwards would *want* somebody intelligent. Or at least he wouldn't want somebody clever enough to realize what he was trying to do.

Belle Book

No, it was this exchange:

Minister: ... a wild. broiling, surging ocean of love over which we, as mere individuals, have no control. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Quinn: Uh, I'm not sure ...

(This isn't in the transcript on Outpost Daria, for some reason. I got it off my tape of the Sarcastathon. Maybe the transcript was made from a cut version?)

If you taped the Sarcastathon, take a look at the scene. It's not just the words. Quinn sounds and looks distinctly uneasy.

She probably DID stay with Garrett after the fight because she saw him as rescuing her from a lecherous middle-aged minister. Interesting that, while she loves to have guys fights over her, she'd stay with the loser of the fight, even though she had a good reason.

(Brittany does the same thing after Robert and Kevin fight in "Daria Dance Party". She had a reason, too - she was TRYING to make Kevin jealous. It worked, but I don't think she counted on Kevin getting a broken jaw.)

Edwards may have more surface polish, but I think he's actually less mature than Upchuck when it comes to romance. At least Upchuck prefers girls his own age (except for the *older* Ashley-Amber in "Groped by an Angel", and he initially thought she WAS his age), and Upchuck, as far as I can remember, never used a pretentious word like "womanchild".

But he tried to hit on Tiffany in a classroom in full view and hearing of everyone. Surely he should have known SOMEBODY would realize what he was doing?

I think he lives in the pages of his book-in-progess.

M Man

On 14 May 2001 00:21:42 GMT, [email] (MMan37x) wrote:

That's one of the transcripts I obtained from Planet Daria way back when. Unfortunately, Rowena Stubbs didn't have the benefit of an ATI All In Wonder card with its ability to record closed-captioned text to a file for later editing into a transcript. :-) (Even *with* such an advantage, however, it's still a lot of work...)

Martin
(send all e-mail to "[email]")
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
    Outpost Daria: The Internet's Premiere Website for Daria Fans
      New, easy-to-remember URL:  http://www.outpost-daria.com

Sorry if it sounded like I was criticizing you. That wasn't my intent. I *do* appreciate that Outpost Daria must be a lot of work.

M Man

On 14 May 2001 08:35:20 GMT, [email] (MMan37x) wrote:

Don't sweat it. I know you weren't criticizing me, I just figured I'd elaborate for all concerned (this question comes up a lot!). Just FYI, the transcripts for episodes 104-106 and 108-207 were the originals from Planet Daria. The rest were done by me.

MMan said:

Quinn's not stupid, and she may be sensing that the Minister is setting things up for a fairly crude pass. Given that Quinn doesn't usually like to be touched even by guys she _likes_, and that this is some random older man ...

The point to Quinn is that the guys fighting over her shows that they like her. Who wins or loses should the fight turn physical is irrelevant to her intent, which is to have them demonstrate that they care.

Upchuck is only 17-18 -- unless he's an outright pedophile (meaning "attracted to pre-pubescent girls") there isn't a very range of girls younger than him for him to go for. Note that Edwards wasn't displaying "pedophilia" -- Tiffany is most definitely post-pubescent.

So who knows? Edwards may be a slightly smoother, older Upchuck!

He thought he was being amazingly subtle. And who knows, maybe he was almost right? Quinn seems to have been the only person who caught on to what he was doing ...

But yeah, neither his target nor his approach were the wisest, even for someone _looking_ to seduce a 15-16 year old girl.

Yep :)

Of course. But it's STILL interesting. :-)

Well, Upchuck COULD go after junior-high girls. He doesn't, as far as we've seen. Edwards seems to have an obsession about inexperienced girls, while Upchuck was intrigued by the notion of an affair with Ashley-Asher.

Give Upchuck this much credit, he's apparently never tried to hit on a girl who would see him as an "older man" as her primary motivation for accepting him. He tries to use his, uh, charm ( :-) ) on girls his own age or older.

He was wrong.

Actually, did you see the look on Stacy's face?

I think Quinn got picked to do something about the situation for the same reason as with the charicatures in "Art Burn"; her mother's a lawyer.

M Man

MMan said:

seen.

As far as we've seen. He _has_ hit on the FC members, who are a year or two his junior. It could simply be that junior-high girls aren't, um, developed enough to excite his interest.

Absolutely, given his book.

Oh, a beautiful experienced older woman would be a _Playboy_ fantasy come true for him!

M Man wrote:

Sadly, I never taped the Sarcastithon permanently, but I'll take your word for it. So even though Quinn was one or two years younger at that point, she may have vaguely sensed something was wrong with the minister so she stayed with Garrett.

As for staying with the loser of the fight, it may simply have been because she didn't want to stay with the minister, not because Garrett lost.

No, I don't think Brittany counted on Kevin getting a broken jaw, either.

True -- Upchuck, for all his faults (and does he ever have a lot of them) tends to go more for high-school girls. And I don't remember Upchuck using the term "woman-child", either. If only he'd abandon his Hugh Hefner act, he'd probably be half-decent where women are concerned.

I think he does, too.

Belle Book

Belle Book said:

Tiffany _does_ have a certain innocence about her -- but it's the innocence of complete stupidity, rather than any particular virtue. If she _isn't_ sexually active, it's probably out of a general "ewww" reaction coupled with having been told it was "bad" by her parents.

We've had this disagreement before, but just for the record ... Tiffany isn't "stupid" at all, she's simply self-absorbed to the point of distraction. Granted, this has pretty much the same effect in most situations.

I still think that Tiff has a highly-evolved instinct for her own advantage, however. If she's not sexually active (and I doubt she is), it's because she's not going to give up ANYTHING unless she can clearly see her long-term advantage in it.

As for the rest of the fashion club, Quinn's a virgin because she's not ready to commit and she sees the risks and consequences of casual sex. Sandi's a virgin because she hasn't found a guy who meets her standards, and she's not going to let down her defenses for anything less. Stacy's the most vulnerable, because of her ego problems, but she's probably hung on because of her basic shyness, and a deep-seated fear of gaining a reputation and thereby losing the approval of her friends.

Outside of the Fashion Club, Daria's still a virgin. Brittany's definitely not. Jody ... flip a coin, she might have held on to her virtue this long out of sheer bloody-mindedness. Jane ... probably has some pretty serious experimentation under her belt, but how far it's gone is known only to Jane and her lucky companion at the moment. I don't think she went "all the way" with Tom, but probably further than Daria ever has, by at least a base or two.

Chris McCubbin said:

Exactly. There's nothing anyone in high school can offer Tiffany that's valuable enough for her to be willing to have sex with him. As for "love," the only one Tiffany "loves" is -- Tiffany.

We actually don't know much, if anything, about Sandi's or Staci's morals. Or Tiffany's, really -- Quinn's the only one we've seen react to sexual situations in detail.

But I'd agree with your hypotheses -- they fit the characters.

If Jodie's had sex with anyone, it's definitely Mack. Jodie wouldn't settle for casual sex, and she's gone steady with Mack for years.

That's an interesting choice of words.

I don't think she has one, now. If she experimented, it was probably _before_ she met Daria.

Agreed.

Chris McCubbin wrote:

You may be right about Tiffany not being stupid, but she STILL acts stupid to me. However, I WOULD agree that she's still a virgin.

And possibly because Quinn at this point is still squeamish about sexual matters.

I'd agree that Stacy's still a virgin because she doesn't want to gain a reputation and lose the approval of her friends -- it fits with what we know about her. As for Sandi, I don't know about her, but I'll take your word for it, since I've only begun watching Daria within the past year (since about the time of "Is It Fall Yet?", as a matter of fact).

Yes, Daria's still a virgin, and Brittany probably isn't one, though the writers are being very discreet about how far Brittany went. If Jodie had sex with anyone, it would be Mack, since she'd be more likely to have sex with a guy she's gone out with for some time than with a complete stranger. On the other hand, she might be afraid that having sex would run the risk of destroying the image of "Little Miss Perfect" that her parents want her to have.

As for Jane, I think at the very least she had experimented with a guy prior to meeting Daria, but how far it went, I don't know. I doubt she went "all the way" with Tom, however. So if she was still a virgin when she met Daria, she's still a virgin now.

Belle Book

Jordan S. Bassior wrote:

I * know * Tiffany's innocence is more due to stupidity or self-absorption than to any particular virtue -- but do you seriously think Edwards would * see * that? The "innocent virgin" exists in his dream-world, for the most part. That her innocence is due to stupidity or sheer self-absorption, he isn't ever going to see.

Belle Book

MMan said:

Come to think of it, fear of deshabille _would_ be one of Tiffany's primary motivations not to let guys go to far with her!

"Sweat ... ewww."

Quinn was also over a year younger in that episode. Besides, she _likes_ male _attention_ from pretty much _anyone_ -- she just isn't willing to get _sexual_ with most (or, probably, in her life so far, anyone).

That was part of David's appeal to Quinn. Instead of going on and on about her appearance, or (worse) trying to paw her, he was actually relating to her as an intellectual human being. That got through her defenses.

Because Tiffany is stupid, sullen, selfish, and impossibly vain. Can you imagine having her as a girlfriend -- even if she _wasn't_ also a minor? At her level of selfishness, she probably wouldn't even be very good on the most elemental sexual level. The only point of having Tiffany as a girlfriend would be to take her places and make other men jealous that you had her.

Well, presumably Edwards' situation isn't all that desperate -- after all, he was hired as a replacement worker during a strike, he knew he probably wasn't going to be keeping that job anyway. He may have went for it because he has this perverse-romantic notion of "helping young buds to blossom," etc. etc., and so from his viewpoint the chance of a teacher-student romance was _why_ he was there in the first place.

Yes, I presume so, considering that Tiffany was so dense she wasn't even comprehending his advances. He ideally would have wanted someone smart, but submissive and with some lack of self-confidence, and willing to follow his lead and be appreciative of the attentions of an older man. Someone rather like Amelia from "Camp Fear," actually.

Of course, it's very obvious that Edwards was not only a pervert, but also a fool, given that he instead went after the prettiest, stupidest, and most self-absorbed person in his class -- _in front of the rest of the class, including her friends_. And a self-deluded fool -- he convinced himself that Tiffany was whatever he wanted her to be in his fantasy, rather than paying attention to her true personality.

Thank you. That's what I was trying to say.

*I* wouldn't, but I'm not Edwards.

Edwards wants someone totally inexperienced. And very manipulable. I don't think he's really looking for "good sex".

The REASON for his firing may be on his record. Ms Li may be willing to cover it up to preserve Lawndale High's reputation, but Helen wouldn't. And, as we've seen before ("Arts 'N Crass, e.g.) Helen trumps Angela every time.

Edwards may no longer be employable as a teacher.

If he somehow managed to get out of the situation without a written record, he ought to be VERY relieved, not still mooning over Tiffany.

I doubt it. Tiffany not only IS stupid, she LOOKS stupid. And he went for her.

And Amelia is hardly a perv's dream. And not just because she's not very good-looking. It's true she lacks self-confidence, but she's not really submissive. She's rather gregarious and assertive, if in an awkward way. I think someone like Edwards would find that threatening to his "older man" persona-fantasy.

M Man

MMan said:

most

That's a good point. Um, if he was looking for someone like that, _Staci_ would have been the obvious target.

Possibly. We don't know if Helen bothered to follow it up past the point of getting Edwards fired, though.

her.

_Does_ Tiffany "look stupid?" She looks like a classically beautiful Oriental girl, and the stereotype for teenaged Oriental girls is "shy, studious, submissive, and virginal." Exactly what Edwards was looking for.

Oh, admittedly, once you spoke to her for a minute or so you'd realize that she was as dim as a 1-watt light bulb, but then you'd have to actually pay attention to _her_, rather than to your fantasy-image of her, based on cheesy racial stereotypes, to notice this. I don't see any evidence that Edwards was paying any attention at all.

That's true -- Amelia's a bit too, umm, "fiesty" (hee hee hee) for a nimno like Edwards to handle.

I think her usual facial expression is one of stupidity.

Except for "studious", I agree that Tiffany matches that stereotype.

M Man

MMan said:

I don't see her as "shy" or "submissive" either. "Virginal," prolly, but mostly because her Sugar Daddy hasn't come along yet.

Hmmm. Well, she certainly HAS shown a mean streak ("we want someone to break his fingers!" and other occassions), but she's certainly not UN-shy; she isn't gregarious or outgoing or forceful with other people.

In the FC, she's always gone along with the leader-of-the-moment. That seems submissive. She was submissive enough to let Stacy(!) chew her out and not fight back at all.

M Man

MMan said:

That's true -- actually, shyness and submissiveness are _not_ incompatible with nastiness -- they just denote a passive-aggressive nasty style :)

And if, as you suggested, Edwards was attracted to Tiffany on the basis of Asian-female stereotyping, he might recall that there's an Asian-female stereotype very different from the "shy, virginal, and submissive": Dragon Lady. :-)

M Man

--------

Tiffany: We want someone to break his fingers, like in that show about those guys.

MMan said:

Very true.

Also known as "Ms. Li."

Though I think Angela's inherently nicer than Tiffany -- she's just older and soured by failure.

and

I saw the first part of that sentence and my fingers twitched, must be using the word nice to describe Ms Li that did it. Hmm, nicer than Tiffany... Definitely a 'lesser of two evils' question.

Jordan S. Bassior wrote:

Even if she didn't, it's very likely that Mr. Edwards wasn't very employable WHEN he was hired as a substitute.

She at least * looks * the part. And yes, I seriously doubt Edwards was paying any attention to * her *. He just saw what he wanted to see.

Yes, Amelia's not the right type of girl for a pervert like Edwards -- and it's just as well, too.

Belle Book