#307 s3Spoiler ... whatever... here' what I thought about D!TM

Okay, here's yer spoiler space! (oh, and warning, long-ass post ahead.) ein zwei drei vier funf

zwanzig

driezig

vierzig.

Hey, since everyone else has been giving out opinions, I figured I'd finally get around to doing it m'self. (Warning-- this is long, even for me.)

Okay, first off, I don't like musicals, and I absolutely *loathe* show tunes-- mostly for reasons I've already expounded upon in this NG (LSS-- we had to make sock puppets in 4th grade and sing show tunes with them. It was dreadful. To this day, I cannot get the song "Surrey with the fringe on the top" out of my head 20 years later. *Shudder*) I did have the privilege of seeing Yul Brenner in "The King and I" on Broadway in the late 1970s, but otherwise I have no knowledge, appreciation, or understanding of or for the form. I just don't get it. I mean, I understand the concept, I just don't understand why people pay money to see "Cats," et. al.

In spite of that, I liked this ep, and I've already rewatched it a couple of times. I don't know whether it's because I found it funny and different and very un-Daria (in that it was an atypical ep), or because there haven't been any new eps in, oh, about 6 months, or maybe because I keep finding little funny bits in it-- like the cow thing, the Brady Bunch Squares, Al Roker (was that supposed to be Al?) as the weatherman... Considering how I dislike musicals, though, it was nice to see a parody of the form, especially the dance numbers (Sandi jumping in front of Quinn, the West Side Story dance of "Manly") and overacting by some characters (uh, who could I be referring to?), as well as the Greek Chorus of students wailing when the football game's been cancelled... but I digress...

So, let's just get to cases. First off, the quality of the singing-- I thought it was neat how they tried to match the singing up with the characters-- that is, not every character is a great singer (unlike the typical musicals I've been exposed to, where even the Garcon de Piss has a beautiful tenor voice) -- the most obvious example being poor Brittany, whose singing voice would be considered a form of cruel and unusual punishment even in a Turkish Prison. <g> Brittany also overacted like any cheerleader trying to get the lead in a play-- she's overacted before, remember-- it's still funny to me. And if you've ever been in a choir, there's always that one soprano who thinks she can sing, but who is really just screeching-- and Brit is it in this case. Both Wendy Hoopes (Helen, Quinn, and Jane) and Julian Rebodello (Jake) did wonderful jobs singing -- I liked the passion in the way Jake sang, you could almost feel the frustration (and the incipient road rage) in both of his songs. Wendy Hoopes was her usually amazingly talented self-- she managed to give all three characters distinct singing voices-- no small trick to pull off well. Of course Quinn and Helen had good singing voices-- they're perfectionists, anyway, and Jane had her own unique style-- kind of a broad, flat, cabaret/vaudeville kind of sound. Daria sang as Daria would-- in a bored, manner of fact fashion. Hey, it's what works for her. <g>

Ok, next, the Libretto-- granted, the lyrics weren't extremely deep or meaningful compared to high opera, but remember, this all has to be done on a very limited production schedule. Once you've got it sent out to Korea, that's it-- even if you get an idea to redo a line in a song, there's a tight deadline that has to be met, and hand-painting is expensive enough as it is. So, while I'm sure there were ways it could've been improved, there's only so much time to get it ready for production. And in spite of that, the songs were just damn funny-- compared to most B'way musical songs that have been inflicted upon my ears, they really weren't any worse, either-- at least *they* were humorous.

I still can't get some of the tunes out of my head, especially Daria's line "O what a joy, I didn't wake up dead," and "what tales of nothing will unfold" in the opening, and her line "I always knew that I would die in Noweheresville," to which Jane replies "but I didn't think I'd die there quite so soon." And, of course, Jake's anthem for frustrated drivers everywhere, "Gah, Gah Dammit!" -- a mix of "Born To Be Wild" meets "Paradise By The Dashboard Light" meets "Dammit, Janet!" (At least that what it reminds me of.) I feel his pain, every day. And I also could empathize with "Manly" -- it's true-- men have to be sensitive and caring, yet still be men, too-- it's frustrating as hell to figure out which role you have to fill at any given moment--- "Okay, now do I just listen, nod my head, and offer support, or do I try to fix it for her? I know that no matter which one I pick, I'll be wrong. Dammit! Why can't she just hold up a sign? Gah! It's my eye! Oh, God, it's my eye!" (More on this below.) I also really wanted to hear Eric finish his song for Helen-- "aw, hell, I'll email you!" As for Mack and Jodie-- "... and all the people blown away, we'd be in the majority" -- nice touch. Just because they're smart and popular doesn't mean that they don't feel isolated in the mostly-white burbs.

There were some great one-liners as well... "There really is a school spirit. Spooky." "You know, being a post-apocalyptic town's gonna be cool. Other towns will be scared of us." "Great. Not only are we gonna die, the headline's gonna read quarterback and others perish." "Oh, no. Wind, hair." "Looters!" "Doesn't anybody in this town wear pants anymore?" "Who do you want in an emergency, Superman or your damn Inner Child?" "And look, Brittany, he also made a rainbow."

One other thing I noticed-- every single Daria character in Lawndale (not Leeville, of course) makes an appearance-- even Robert (bonehead) and Ethan make cameos in the Gym, yet where's Ted DeWitt-Clinton? I guess his parents moved away to Montana to finish their y2k bunker preparations. <g>

Re: the cussing. Well, I can't talk. I cuss like a pirate, too at times. I don't think that they were aiming at SP, though, as SP is also owned by Viacom. Why compete with your allies? SP is SP, Daria is Daria. Neither can do the other very well, and the creative folks already know that, I'm sure.

Oh, and I like the 3rd season title background color-- Carolina Blue. Ahhh... <g> Hey, Chris Majors-- maybe they'll pick Auburn Orange for Season 4. <g>

Okay, now I've gotten all of that out of the way. There were a few things that kinda bugged me-- first off, the storm was a dud (as many have already observed). I've been through 3 canes in the last 3 years, and a few others before that, as well as a few tropical storms. (Hey, NC is #2 in only to Fla in hurricane frequency.) So, when the door busted open to the sun, I also thought "Eye! Get the hell back in there!" And as prepared as Helen usually is, she should've had her hurricane tracking chart already on the fridge-- hell, they even put them on the paper bags at the grocery stores down here. But again, I've already been taught that Mme. Nature is a mean woman with a nasty sense of humor. And they also forgot the really funny parts of any hurricane-- preparation (fighting for ice and batteries) and the aftermath-- you learn to respect things like water treatment and electricty, believe me. :P Did you know that you can't get gasoline without power? It's a bitch, believe me.

Jake/Homer. This point has already been brought up and discussed, but I'll throw in my $0.02 for the record. I have to agree that Jake has become more and more one-dimensional over the series, but then again, so have almost all of the other male characters on the show. I don't think that this is a very good ep for comparing, though, mostly because it's a musical and a parody, so there really isn't anything to analyze. Now, if you're talking about Jake making stew in WWIH, then I'll agree with you-- he always seems to be ready to play the part of the clown (will he ever turn into Il Pagliacci, though? I hope not. <g>) Jake is the typical take-charge guy who is lost in trying to deal with a wife and two daughters at home. He desperately wants a son-- if only to have another male to relate to around the house, because otherwise everything he does is wrong. I'd like to see his character developed more, rather than less, and I'd like to see some of the other guys on the show develop more realistic personae-- hey, a dude can dream, right? <g> Maybe the answer to Helen's question, "Doesn't anybody in this town wear pants anymore?" should be "No, why should they bother?" <g> (Note: I'm not criticizing, I'm observing. There's a difference.) <g>

The plot-- okay, as lit geek I like a strong denouement. (One of the reasons I'm often disappointed with the X-Files-- the writing is sloppy, and the endings are rushed-- nay, slapdash at times.) The plot in this ep wasn't too strong, but it *is* a musical, and reality never applies to a musical universe. So I'll let it slide, even though the wimpy storm and the rushed denoument kinda narked the lit geek in me. <g>

Trends? Well, while I said that I liked this ep, I *really* like the eps that have some character development in them--- more meat to them (or protein for the veggie members of a.t.d.) I understand the need for fluff, but please, don't push too much on us-- "The Simpsons" has gotten bad enough as it is-- I'd hate to see "Daria" become a constant parody of itself. The show has managed to cover some great issues with top-notch humor and superb writing. I'm not too worried about the show going in a bad direction, though, and I do understand that it's not my toy to play with, and also, writers have to be free to take risks and push the envelope. Fine, just don't break it, please? (Okay, here I'm not observing or criticizing, just begging. Different again. <g>)

The commercial. What can I say? I was sooo sick of the commercial for the premiere I could gag. It gave away way too much. I realize that it was a recent decision to move it to the premiere slot, but couldn't they have shot something a little *less* annoying? (Okay, I'm just observing here. <g>) And, hey, if you were looking for people to preview it and give rave reviews on camera, why didn't you ask us first? *Sniff* <g>

All of that said, I liked "Daria!" It was much better than "Cats." I will see it again and again. <g> It gets a B+ in my book. I laughed my ass off in spite of my reservations, so it passed my electric kool-aid acid test, which is comprised of one simple question-- "Did I laugh?" To which I answered "Dammit! You'd better believe it!"

BTW, thanks for reading all of this crap. <g> rich.

Daria: "I always knew that I would die in Nowheresville"

Jane: "But I didn't think I'd die there quite so soon."

Spoiler character for news readers that are not broken:

In article , [email] wrote:

For what it's worth, Trent is perhaps the only male character in the show who you've seen some character development on. And I think that sucks.

I don't

They really need to sit down and start thinking about making Jake a more "real" character. I do indeed think he has turned into Homer Simpson, much to the detriment of the show. Not only think of Write Where It Hurts, also think of his behavior in "The Teachings of Don Jake" which was ostensibly designed partially as a showcase episode for him.

He really comes off as a total buffoon in Daria! The Musical! I can't get around that. And that's a shame, because if D! TM! was handled properly he could have really shown some dimension.

Take care,
--.\\<-H--

who you've seen some character development on. And I think that sucks. << Michelle Klein-Hass

Jake's had a lot of time devoted to his character, but he's a stereotypical sort of a guy. He can't let go of his past and this forces him to keep reliving it in his rage. Sad, really, if you bother to think about it ... maybe Helen would be a happier and less stressed person if she didn't have to mother him as well.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

[email] (Michelle Klein-Hass) wrote:

I think part of the problem is that it's too easy to go to Jake when you want a quick comedy punch, and like any gag, it can get a little worn out. It is kinda interesting to see how he's changed from "Esteemsters" to "WWIH" -- he's definitely had his moments-- he had great insight in "Arts N' Crass," and seemed pretty normal in "Esteemsters," but I agree that I'd like to see him grow in a more real direction. I mean, he's supposed to be in his 40's, not his teens. (But then again, the Baby Boomers always were a little too self-absorbed, so maybe that makes him a perfect Boomer. <g>)

I have a different perspective-- I think that actually Jake came off a little better in D! than in WWIH-- he finally stood up to Helen and said exactly what was on his mind, and he finally clearly expressed his (and many guys') frustration in trying to be both strong and supportive at the same time. Let's face it-- he's outnumbered 3 to 1 at home, and he didn't have what I'd call an idyllic childhood. He's always had trouble trying to be supportive (remember his pep talk to Quinn in "Fair Enough?") while also trying to relate to his kids at the same time, and all the while trying not to piss off Helen even more. He's not the best prepared parent in the world, but I don't think he's an idiot, either. Just confused like many of us guys are. ;-)

But, yeah, I would like to see Jake mature a little, like Helen has over the series.

done blathering, rich.

Jake: The horror, the *horror* ...

finally stood up to Helen and said exactly what was on his mind, and he finally clearly expressed his (and many guys') frustration in trying to be both strong and supportive at the same time. << Rich

I agree. And you notice Trent did too.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:07:01 GMT, [email] (paperpusher) wrote:

It's only proper that the premiere should generate loads of discussion, especially one like this!

I was EXTREMELY disappointed by the off-a-cliff ending to the storm. I was also disappointed by the pointless end to Jake and Treant's attempt at heroics. The more I watch this (and just about every other show that makes TV these days), the more I realize that it is VERY female centered. This is natural enough, given the very nature of the show, and Daria is certainly a worthy main character. But did Jake HAVE to get into that car accident? Not only was his attempt to be "Manly" fruitless, it also resulted in considerable property damage. I was hoping to at least have Daria think their way out of that shack before it blew away, have them get down off the roof somehow (why didn't they do that in the first place? Certainly one of them might have had skill enough to go over the side? Oh wait, that's just Monkey Boy; me, that is. ;). Anyway, they get off the roof, take cover, Jake's car pulls up, and they get the hell out of there. Or something. I just don't like what seems to be a pervasive anti-male attitude, the attitude decried in "Manly" and approved by the accident.

In article , [email] wrote:

(or so...DejaNews dropped all the space for some reason.)

Strap in... 'Cause I'm making it longer! ;)

Hah. I know what you mean about "Cats." Haven't seen it, and don't want to. Although I am comfortable enough in my masculinity to say that I do enjoy the occasional Broadway show. And I guess that helped my enjoyment of "D!" along, viz: I know in a heartbeat that "Manly!" was a West Side Story spoof. (Random fact for rich: We played WSS music my sophomore year at Auburn on the field. Imagine "Tonight, Tonight" at 210 beats/min-- as the closer. We didn't have an ounce of fat on us by season's end. ;) )

8< bunch of good commentary deleted 8<

I can't wait! ;) Actually, I had "pastel blue" in the "What color will the 3rd season background card be?" office pool, so I cleaned up there. ;) Didja see the ads on ESPN for the tourney? It's an "Alien Autopsy" spoof, but the "alien" is a guy in a UNC shirt. They cut him open, and to gasps of horror from the doctors: He really -does- bleed Carolina Blue. :)

Maybe it's me, but I thought more along the lines of "Don't they need to end the storm pretty soon? It's getting late..." And as far as the storm goes, they canceled school here for Georges last year, and it actually made landfall in the Keys-- 350 miles to the south. We had no rain, and the tide came in a bit stronger than usual. But you couldn't buy batteries for a week.

Okay, let's play my favorite Lit Geek game. It's called "Rationalize the Christ Figure." The rules are simple: I choose any random character in the show, and you explain how -that- person is the Christ figure. First off: Jane. Run with it! ;)

No problem! Enjoyed it!

Chris Majors Keeper of the alt.tv.daria FAQ: http://www.auburn.net/~cwmajors/dariafaq.htm

[email] wrote:

<snippage for humanitarian reasons.>

Ugh. I remember playing some WSS music in College and HS as well-- in fact, the way I learned the A4/d5/Tritone interval is the opening to "Maria." In College, we also had to play "Memory" and something from "Phantom," for a couple of very cheesy halftime shows (Band Motto: It ain't easy bein' cheesy.) but I still managed to avoid seeing either musical. (I also haven't seen Titanic yet, either. <g>) I saw the WSS ref as well in "Manly," or rather heard it to be more precise. I still don't like musicals, though. I prefer drama or opera or syphony for my main Modes Of Big Musical Expression That You Wear A Suit To Watch-- it just seems less artificial and forced than the musical to me. (YMMV.)

<more snippage for humanity's sake>

"Pastel Blue???" Watch yer mouth, young man! <g> Although I have to admit that we refer to Clemson's shade of Orange as "Garbage Can Orange." <g>

Yeah, I saw it... and, well, it's true. Everyone around here *does* bleed Carolina Blue. It's how we tell "us" from "them." <g> (Yes, it's all part of a Greater Conspiracy, of which y'all have been unaware. <g>)

<snippage>

Well, yeah-- I mean it *is* a musical, and the regular rules never apply in a musical-- but I've been through so many of these damn things that thinking "Eye!" is more of an instinctual reaction for me. <g> As I said before, NC is one of the big hurricane bullseyes-- second only to Fla, of course, but it seems like the stupid things always make a bee-line for me. :P The other part of living here that sucks is that Hurricanes are very good at ruining vacations around here-- they'll evacuate the Outer Banks at the drop of a hat for a very good reason-- it takes 48 hours to evacuate the Outer Banks, and all the Outer Banks is is a giant sandbar in the middle of the Atlantic-- only a fool would stay for the storm-- the winds don't kill, the storm surge does. So, we always have to plan our vacations for the earlier part of Hurricane Season, just to avoid inconvenience.

One thing they did get right, though-- the sky is always an amazingly beautiful shade of Carolina Blue after a Cane passes (I guess the smog blows away), and the stars are also just incredible the first night afterwards-- mostly because the power's out in most of the area. <g>

BTW, where's your Hurricane kit? I've always got about 10 pounds of batteries stored for Hurricanes-- after Hugo, the lesson was learned-- you will not have electricity for a while-- you'd best be ready. You may not have running water for a while. You'd best be prepared for the worst. Bertha, Fran, and Bonnie all reinforced the lesson. (I was out of power for a week after Fran-- and it was about 90 degrees every damn day. I think I must've fed about 5,000 mosquitoes. Ugh.) Y2K? Please. I'm ready for something much worse, like a Category 3 or higher. *shudder* Y2K won't make your house or your car eat a tree. (I'm not paranoid, just wary from past experience.)

<snip>

Jane as Christ figure? Hmm... okay. Even though you didn't specify an ep, I'll assume you mean D!. Okay, how's bout this-- like Christ, Jane believes that she has been forsaken by her family (but neither she nor Christ were forsaken by their families, it just seemed like it to them at a time of Crisis), and she believes that she has been abandoned to the mercies of the storm (which symbolizes the Roman Empire, naturally), which she thinks will most assuredly cause her demise. After the storm ends, however, she is "reborn" in that she gains a new appreciation of the joy and beauty of life, or something, and is reunited with the part of her family that happens to be in town. I dunno. Ok, it's a stretch, but it's late.

Your turn: Ms. Li.  }:-{)>

<more snippage>

Well, that makes one. <g>

rich.

Tiffany: "Oh, no. Wind, hair."

In article , [email] wrote: (whole bunch of really cool discussion)

LOL. I got that. That was funny. ;)

Jane as a "Christ" figure...hm...god, um, I'm going to have to try and figure out what to say about such a thing.

deena lissa (elated that she's almost finished)

"I believe you'll follow me, it's all I need to know" (Duran Duran, 1987) Jane: Dear Daria, Lousy Traitor. Daria: Dear Jane, I know what you are, but what am I?