I watched "The misery chick" for the first time today on C5 I my humble opinion it was completely superb I love the bit wher Daria "comforts" Mr O`neil "There .......there.."
I have not seen that many episodes yet, so how is "The misery chick" viewed in comparison to other episodes Is it just an average epp...or is it a bit better than average?
Paul gate of UUNET writes:
I was half asleep when I saw it but I wasn't all that impressed, it didn't ring true to me that all these people would ask Daria how to cope with being miserable, nor that Jane would cease talking to Daria. And surely Mr O'Neil of all people is supposed to be in touch with his feelings? And finally I was disappointed that we didn't get to see the quarterback being crushed. The episode was going fine up until the moment he walks off camera, but starting with the moment we hear the goalposts fall but don't get to witness it, it all seemed to go wrong.
But I'll watch it again after I've sobered up (I just got back from a party) and see if my opinion changes.
-Shez.
Shez wrote:
I didn't like it much either. I didn't think everyone'd go to Daria in a situation like that, and that thing with Jane: what the Hell was that? If she lets her personal problems interfere with her life like that then I'd have just let her ignore me if I were Daria, I'd find someone else to talk to. I'm not like Daria of course, but I can't understand anyone going to talk to someone who's avoiding them.
Alli
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
Well i see "The misery chick" has its detractors I liked the theme of Death and ambivalance Thinking about it perhaps the plot was a little contrived to make that idea fit in. and Janes explanation for her "thing" was a bit thin. As for all these people turning to Daria in their moment of doubt....well hum..ok it's not realistic i suppose, but it gave a chance for Darias position to be made more clear.
Paul gate wrote:
Yeah... I agree that it's not totally realistic, but perhaps it also shows that perhaps her classmates are beginning to not fear talking to her as much. They're beginning to acknowledge her in this episode more than they have in the past, and that trend kind of continues throughout season two... as you'll see as you watch the episodes you haven't seen yet.
--J.
Jessica L. wrote in message ...
I hope they don`t go to far! I could put up with Daria talking to people, but if she started actualy participating, I would feel a bit betrayed. There is of course the fact that Daria did her best to offer genuinly helpfull advice to all those broken psyches... Brittany is "repaired" by the insight that although she doesn`t feel bad about the guys death the fact she feels bad about not feeling bad is proof that she is really a good person and does care. (only about how much she cares though) Daria could have simply left a broken doubtfull Brittany to mill over her nature... instead she aided Brittany in retreiving her old perspective on herself ....Did Daria do the right thing?
Paul wrote:
Of course. Daria almost always does the right thing. One of Our Heroine's most endearing traits is that, despite her protestations to the contrary, she *does* have a conscience, she *does* have standards, and she and everyone else knows it. Of course, she'll deny it, but admit "that's what works for me right now."
In the case at hand, Daria was nothing other than honest, and she'll also admit "I can do honest." To allow Brittany to wallow (probably not the best term) in her confusion would have been almost cruel, and OH is not cruel. She's intelligent and sensitive, and uses wit and sarcasm as a defensive weapon, not a torture device.
So, yeah, she did the right thing. I think.
Peace Kevin
That's not one of her endearing traits.
On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:23:36 +0000, Shez wrote:
"Joining the human race" (as Jane put it) isn't an endearing trait? I think it is. Daria is more than just a one-note character; even she admits that she's not a "misery chick."
Martin (to send e-mail, remove the "nospam" from my e-mail address) ---- "Don't worry. Today it's brains, tomorrow pierced tongues, then the next day, pierced brains." - Jane Lane ---- Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria! http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/
"Martin J. Pollard" wrote:
I would love to not have a conscience. I would love to get rid of all those horribly human things about me so I could do what I wanted rather than what others somehow manage to emotionally blackmail me into doing.
Alli
endless, nameless wrote in message ...
If you got rid of all those horribly human things Then you wouldn`t *want* to do anything at all. You wouldn`t want to do nothing either, so you can`t get away from it we can never do what we want :-)
Desire is the driving force of life. Life is a state of perpetual flux. Nothing is ever perfect, nothing is ever permanent. Permanence is an illusion created by a too-small frame of reference. There is no moral or emotional black and white, only varying shades of grey. There are no ideals in the real world, only people endlessly striving to achieve them. And you know what? It's that struggle that makes it all worth while. A simple life, easy desires, brainless choices -- it wouldn't be worth living.
Ahem. Did that have anything to do with anything at all? No? Didn't think so. Sorry!
That would be nice. Well, nice for you, anyway. Alternatively, you could go the other way and enjoy the emotional blackmail and the things that you do because of it. Probably just as difficult to accomplish as getting rid of your conscience, though.
In article ,
Animals don't have consciences. Neither do robots or psychotics. Consciences, and the use thereof, are part of what make us human. That, and opposable thumbs.
IM Pro-human O.
That's kind of interesting considering I was watching "Clockwork Orange" again the other night and one of the main points is: when a man (or woman or girl, you get the point) loses the ability to choose (right or wrong) he ceases to be a man. At least, the point is either that or that once you see it you'll never be able to hear "Singin' in the Rain" again
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
In article , "endless, nameless" wrote:
most
*does*
Really, now I like my conciouse as it is. Me and a friend were joking about this a few days ago. We were coming down the halls of school, and ran into one of those annoying couples in High Schools that like to hold hands, walk slowly, and maybe even kiss. This leads to the effect of looking sickeningly obnoxious, and taking up the hall. My friend said "ahh we should just plow them over" I said "ya, but I wouldn't...wouldnt' be right, FUN, but not right" She sighed and said "oh you and your damn honor code, and morality".
I lik my morals as they are, so no need ot get rid of them. Besides falling back to the level of primitive animals (Note: if a Dallas Cowboy's fan do not read following joke) or Dallas Cowboys (*see, I wanred you*) just isn't for me
Daniel McCollum Mono@Transformers: Lost years "death is a feater, duty is a mountian" Ravid Wisconsinite Nationalist
In article ,
most
*does*
Isn't it? Daria DOES do what is right, and I find myself agreeing with theo ther person in saying that. She does have a conciouse, and although she enjoys seeing people get what they deserve, hse doesn't seem to like seeing people get what they do NOT deserve, and helps them in those cases. Even look at "monster" where she took pity on Quinn, and helped her out, and many othre numerious cases
Daniel McCollum Mono@Transformers: Lost years "death is a feater, duty is a mountian" Ravid Wisconsinite Nationalist
On 26 Jan 1999 06:05:26 GMT, [email] (KTrick45) wrote:
Except maybe when it comes to Quinn. ;-)
(Actually, she's got a conscience when it comes to her sister, too, despite the fact that she usually ends up getting shafted ["Monster"] or unappreciated ["Too Cute"] because of it. Daria may not *like* her sister -- or her entire family, for that matter, save for the possible exception of Aunt Amy -- but I think she knows full well that "blood runs thicker than water," as the saying goes.)
Martin (to send e-mail, remove the "nospam" from my e-mail address) ---- "Don't worry. Today it's brains, tomorrow pierced tongues, then the next day, pierced brains." - Jane Lane ---- Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria! http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/
Of course she did!
I think this shows a major change in Daria's character, when it was less developed in the beginning, she was more... sadistic, sort of. Part of the development of her character is when she acquires a conscience, which makes her more human, really, and therefore all the more admirable.
Personally I think that "The Misery Chick" is a really really great episode! Lots of very interesting looks into the characters and into people in general really. Probably my second favorite episode after "Arts n Crass"
Dagny misery chick, cynic, general loony
Visit the Parsley Firefly http://members.aol.com/Eccles9697
"One must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you." Friedrich Nietzsche
Eccles9697 wrote in message ...
I loved it..The situation means you really get to see Daria up front...Also you can see signs of struggle. She tries to explain herself to Jane on the phone..and she attempts to latch on to Brittany, calling the guy a jerk, as being a sign that somebody might share her perspective. She too is uncertain, or perhaps just less certain than she usually is.....great stuff!
"Paul gate" wrote:
Well, it's nice to see a lively on-topic discussion here on a.t.d. that's actually centered on an actual episode! ;-) Here's hoping that this little warm-up will have everyone ready to discuss the season three premiere right after it airs on Wed., Feb. 17. Personally, I can't wait! (Lord knows that 6 months is a wait bordering on cruel and unusual for new eps., but it being MTV I'm just grateful that there'll be 26 more eps (13 this year, 13 next) to, ah, discuss.)
Oh, and in case anyone's interested, here are the results of the survey so far for favorite season one & two eps: (16 replies so far.)
season one: Road Worrier (5), Don Jake (4), Big House/Esteemsters/Misery Chick (2), Pinch Sitter (1)
season two: WWIH (8), See Jane Run (4), Pierce Me (2), Monster/Gifted (1), Fair Enough (0) [Kyle, man, you need to *vote*!]
Vote and be heard, or something.
I'm also going to *try* to add another ongoing survey that'll allow you to rate individual episodes on a scale of 1 to 10. (I know, I know, art isn't supposed to be competitive, but this is TV, so it's a litttle different.) I still have to shake a few bugs out of the scripting software first, and that'll take up a free evening *sigh*.
up waaaay too late. again. rich.
Quinn: People are so weird!
Daria: Some people are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:24:52 -0000, "Paul gate" wrote:
Don't forget that Daria does, in fact have a concience. She doesn't go out of her way to do the right thing, but when presented with a situation where the choice is clear, as much as she'd like to be cruel, she can't bring herself to do so, if the person she's dealing with is genuinely in need. The most obvious other example is "Too Cute;" she just couldn't bring herself to use her footage to jab at Quinn, however much she wished to do so.
Tarvok wrote in message ...
I think Daria definately has a conscience In fact i think she is clearly more conciencious than most of the other characters
Brittany came to her with a genuine need...but a need for what? Daria should perhaps have helped her deal with all that ambiguity and maybe explained that sometimes our feelings are "difficult" Brittany is now back to square one.. in her old cell again i realise that if they did stuff like that then in the end Daria would have enlightened everybody, and they would have to draft in some new idiot characters for her grind her teeth on :-)
I'm uncomfortable about this "do the right thing" idea, I mean, right thing by who's set of values? I don't think there is a universally applicable set of values, or if there is it certainly isn't the one that society tries to force on us, which is full of arbitrary stuff. I think Daria does have some sense of what's right and wrong, eg. stupid/obnoxious/shallow people are normally fair game, but if it turns out that they're victims of the system too then it's unfair to pick on them. Also she lets Quinn off the hook in Monster because Quinn convinces her that she doesn't devote herself to fashion etc. because that's what's important to her, but rather because it's the best she can make of her life given her limited talents. In other words Judge Daria decides not to punish Quinn because Quinn has stood up and made a full confession to being shallow and worthless. (But we shouldn't forget that Daria ends up regretting letting Quinn off the hook.)
Daria has values but they're her own values and are not in accord with society's values. I wouldn't want to see her conform to society and "do the right thing" in society's eyes, because society is full of shit. I'm reminded somewhat of something Robert Anton Wilson once wrote, he decided to declare war on stupidity, which he felt was endemic in the human race. He noted however that "the stupid will naturally resent this", but asserted that stupidity "has murdered more geniuses, burned more books, slaughtered more populations and blocked progress more effectively than any other force in history". Elaborating his argument, he notes that in Science, every revolution seems to take a generation, as senior scientists rarely accept new ideas and progress has to wait for them to retire and a new generation to come along who can look at new ideas more objectively. Wilson notes though "if science, the paragon of rationality, is infested with enough stupidity to cause this one-generation time lag, what can we say of politics, economics, and religion? Time lags of thousands of years seem to be normal in these areas before new ideas are accepted."
It strikes me that in her daily life, Daria is engaged in a war on stupidity. Her value system is: intelligence and rationality - good; stupidity - bad, to be rooted out and punished wherever found. The reason this sets her against everyone else is that normally stupidity is rewarded and encouraged whilst independent and critical thinking is punished.
Has anyone watched Pippi Longstocking? (Currently on Channel 4, 7:30-8am on Saturday mornings) She is engaged in the same thing as Daria, except she takes an upbeat approach and is all happiness and smiles as she goes around ingenuously humiliating people by showing them how stupid they are. In every episode she confronts normal everyday things that we've been brought up to take for granted as the Right Thing To Do, and shows that in fact they're stupid pointless things and we'd be happier if we did something else instead. Last week she goes to school for the first (and only) time, and every time the teacher asks her a question she turns it on it's head and shows how there was no point trying to teach it anyway.
"What's the capital of Portugal, Pippi?" "I don't know, why not ask someone who's from Portugal?" "Because I'm asking you!" "Tell you what, next time I'm in Lisbon I'll ask around, someone there is bound to know."
-Shez.
On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:30:51 +0000, Shez wrote:
"The Right Thing" is that thing that you hate to do, but do anyway, because it's the "Right Thing". Morality is that set of rules that enables a majority of a specifically defined group of people to coexist together peacefully in the long term.
Now, I will present an Unpopular Opinion.
Don't be so quick to dismiss these concepts. Intellectuals throughout history have kept trying to tear down these ideas as irrelevant and arbitrary, but, as far as I've seen, every time they (we?) succeed, the plebs rise up, abuse this newfound "freedom", thus destroying what the intellectuals sought to create. While intellectuals may be able to coexist without these rules, the majority of society cannot.
A mildly (we hope) inebriated Shez wrote:
I thought it was mostly in character for Brittany, Kevin and Quinn. The repeated references to Daria as being "gloomy" or the like were, in my opinion, a little heavy-handed and awkward, and don't represent the best writing of the series. On the other hand, the repeated "it really makes you think" line was nearly perfect.
Now, Jane's reaction was very understandable, and I think this is a good example of development in Daria and Jane's relationship. Their friendship is strong enough at this point that Jane can show her feelings (if not express them vebally right away) by her withdrawl, and Daria cares enough to find out what's wrong. I think it rings true, and it admits of further development, so that their friendship can survive Daria's, umm, less than supportive attitude in "See Jane Run."
Agreed. His reaction did not ring true at all. But then, the development of the adults to anything other than caricatures didn't really happen until Season 2. And in some cases, not even then.
A little bloodthirsty when we're tipsy are we? And it must have been a pretty gruesome incident to have him declared dead so quickly. But since I have to see just a little too much real life death and gore at work, I'm pretty satisfied to not see any on my favorite TV program, thank you very much.
Peace Kevin
Yes, unlike misery chick Alli I thought it in character for Daria to come looking for Jane, but I didn't think it in character for Jane to go incommunicado from Daria in the first place given that Daria was there when it all happened. Such shared experiences usually make people closer.
I was looking forward to seeing it when sober too. Violence that I wouldn't like in a live action film is ok in cartoons. Seeing a goalpost fall on a quarterback wouldn't have been as gruesome as the average Tom & Jerry cartoon.
-Shez.
Shez wrote:
"Misery chick Alli"? Maybe, but noone's asking me for help,, they writing stupid letters and pretending it was me instead, I wouldn't mind if they were asking me what to do 'cos i could laugh in their faces. but i dont' even know who it was anyway so it doesn't mattter.. .,,
Alli
KTrick45 wrote:
yeah that was muchbetrer than te "gloomy thing. Brittanys too stupid to try to analyze another person's charatcer lik that, she woildn;t realise if someone was gloomy or not or soemthing,,,,,,,,,, nevern=mind..........I#m too drunk to typr properly now........
He's a twat anyway, mr ONeil dickhheades all of them '////////////
yeah well i fucking wish itd vbeen me got crushed by the postr that fell down might as well havve been my life is effectively over anyway sso someone just kill me ok??
Alli
I loved it, personally. On Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:11:00 -0000, "Paul gate" wrote:
___ Kyle ICQ #12773280
Uh-oh, someone just put me in a position of responsibility! The day has suddenly turned sinister....
Another Nugget Of Wisdom from the Wonderful World Of Kyle(TM)
In article , "Paul gate" wrote:
In my opinion it was one of my favoret episodes. It had a dark tinge of humor, and had a good moral as well. Also the animation was the best of season one, all in all the best episode of Season One, and one of my favorets
Daniel McCollum Mono@Transformers: Lost years "death is a feater, duty is a mountian" Ravid Wisconsinite Nstionalists