FLASH - UK viewers take note

C5 have published 1555 as the scheduled time for _Daria_ today.

If you've set up your VCR to use PDC, and to record weekly at 1550, it may not record this week's episode if you don't reprogram it (assuming C5 send 1555 as the PDC identity for the programme).

This flash is also shown on the News Ticker at The Irony Maiden, where you can check the scheduled transmission times for _Daria_.

Martin.

In article , Martin Sylvester writes

I always give it an extra 5mins each end. Anyway, I made especially sure that I was back from the shops in time to press the record button personally :-)

I'm not too happy about all this 'will she/wont she find a boyfriend' crap that seems to be creeping in lately. What do others think?

Maybe I'm just jealous.

I,JM fzfpqkyivvVqppkpWqppkkivvZpzkkkvi

In article , "I,JM" wrote:

it may

C5 send

where you

What episodes are currently being seen in the UK?

"M Man" wrote in message news:90ubgk$5ef$[email]...

Wee see one new episode a week. Channel Five are currently in the middle of the first screening of Series Four. Today's episode was "I Loathe a Parade."

Martin.

"I,JM" wrote in message news:X$[email]...

Others please remember, before you answer: spoilers! We're up to "I Loathe a Parade".

I'm reserving judgement until I see how it turns out. I would be disappointed if _Daria_ morphed into an animated teen romance serial. <shudder>

One of the things I've liked about _Daria_ so far is that, unlike most stuff on TV with under-40 characters, it doesn't imply that a person has to validate their existence by finding a partner, or that a person's worth can be measured by their sexual activity.

If -- may heaven forfend -- MTV agreed to a sixth season of _Daria_ only on condition that it was written as a teen romance serial, I hope Glenn would walk away.

Martin.

Martin Sylvester said:

The reason it doesn't is that, unlike the "teen romance" genre, the attitude is _not_ implicitly that "it's all a game and we reset the counter after each round of play" (no matter what sounds the characters emit claiming that they have deep emotions, you have to judge them by their actions). I'm not going to spoil it, but the stuff that happens with the main characters in 412, 413, and IIFY has deep and lasting effects upon their attitudes toward life.

I guarantee you that this is _not_ the attitude taken by _any_ of the three main characters involved in the situation.

I do think that love, and perhaps sex, is going to become more of an issue in the upcoming seasons, but for a very good reason. Daria's 17, going on 18, and she's starting to learn to love and to trust.

I really don't think that Daria (the character) is ever going to take a "casual" attitude towards love or sex. Her whole personality is pitched in entirely the opposite direction.

In article ,

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each

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413, and

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worth can

three

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would

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on 18, and

a

pitched in

Bottom line for UK viewers: watch the rest of season 4. You will NOT be disappointed.

war. On

too

wrote:

Look, Daria has experienced quite a bit in this series, but she hasn't faced the situation she's in now. She certainly didn't intend it to happen; now that it has, how does she deal with it and what changes come on in her because of it?

Please, I think that's the last thing that any of them had in mind and I don't think that's going to be paramount in the upcoming storyline.

Considering that he's the prime architect of the situation, I don't think it likely that Glenn would walk away from it. Teen romance? I doubt the show is going to become that.

Of course has Daria ever felt love towards someone other than the members of her family? She had a crush on Trent, but was that really love? Here for the first time those issues may be discussed. Who knows how it will play out?

Jeff M.

"JMorris830" wrote in message news:[email]...

413,

faced

that

of

"Now" means, for us watching in the UK, the end of "I Loathe a Parade."

\|/ Trivial spoiler for ILAP! | | \ / V

30

20

10

The look she exchanged with Tom at the end of ILAP *might* be meaningful, but I'm not *sure* that the events of ILAP left her in a "situation she hasn't been in before." Unless you count being covered in yellow and blue paint. 8-)

Please don't spoil later eps!

stuff

can

three

Nice to know that.

on

would

think it

is

Sometimes the people in a network who make funding decisions might have an opinion as to how a show could attract more viewers, and these opinions might not always coincide with the vision of the show's creators. I don't know if MTV work like that.

This is the scenario -- entirely putative, and not necessarily bearing any relation to reality. The people who say yes or no to a new season say, in effect, "Look, Glenn, it's not attracting enough of our target demographic. Who wants a show that appeals to smart kids? We'll give you season six, providing there's a few changes. Make it a teenage romance. Make it essential viewing for kids who read teen romance comics. Make it a natural partner to 'Singled Out.'" Given that choice, which Heaven forfend, I hope Glenn would walk away from the deal sooner than agree to the dumbing-down of _Daria_. Others might disagree.

members of

the

Hmm, that certainly renews my sense of anticipation for the rest of S4 and IIFY. Roll on, 2003!

Martin.

In article , "Martin Sylvester" wrote:

Romance comics haven't existed since the late 1970s. Never mind Teen Romance comics. And the kids who are Daria's target demographic don't read comics any more (see "Downtown").

There's a big long rant about this, but this isn't the forum for it. [ www.delphi.com/ellis/ is, but it helps if you know something about the state of the English language comics industry. Caveat emptor.]

"Bear" wrote in message news:91a8i8$f32$[email]...

Thanks for the correction. I could pretend that since I was putting those words into the mouth of a fictitious network executive, I was making a subtle point about how out of touch they are with their market. But, in reality: ya got me! It shows how much attention I pay to romance literature. I'd got the impression they'd been remarketed as "magazines."

Do they read any fiction, other than what's on the school reading list? It'd be a depressing thought to think that reading fiction for pleasure -- whether graphically illustrated or otherwise -- might become a lost art.

Martin.

There are a lot of people where I live which don't read fiction anymore, unless they have to. And then they make it as short as possible. I am not one of them. I have just discovered the wonderful world of pulp magazines (The Shadow, Doc Savage, etc.)

Martin Sylvester wrote in message news:91aac2$479$[email]...

literature.

It'd

policy

wrote:

Sorry, I meant to do that, but let it go. I forgot that they schedule the episodes differently in the UK.

Anyway with the later episodes I think you'll understand what I mean.

It's possible that could have happened. There was the threat of the show being axed after its third season. Tragedy was averted, but of course there might have been a subtle prodding by the powers that be to make it more "accessible." Then again, maybe Glenn and Co. had this idea in mind from the beginning. We really won't know until the fifth season how the situation plays out to see whether there's been any fatal changes.

I hope I'm not spoiling anything for anybody, but just in case...........

.

.

.

.

Ok, I read somewhere where Glenn was aware of the criticism he was getting for the direction of the series, but felt that to keep things as they had been in earlier seasons would not be realistic in depicting the maturation of a teenager. The question for us is does the opening up Daria to new experiences and perhaps changing her a tad constitute "dumbing down" the show? I'm not attacking you, but it's a question for some future debate.

Jeff M.

In article ,

schedule the

They show the episodes in a different order than in the US? A lot of season 4 is not comprehensible if seen out of order.

case...........

getting

had been

of a

experiences

I'm not

I've said before they're walking a tightrope without a net; but so far so good, in my opinion.

Any UK fans who've read this far - keep watching season 4! And the movie if you get it. I don't think you'll be disappointed. There's a reason there were so many messages in this ng with spoiler headings this past summer!

"M Man" wrote in message news:91bur6$t6c$[email]...

Same order. I think Jeff meant he'd forgotten how much delay there is between an ep being first shown in the US, and the same ep being first shown in the UK. As to IIFY -- don't get me started! At least C5 *have* bought it. <wanders off, muttering>

Martin.

What I meant was that UK fans don't get to see the fourth season at the same time as we do here. We're over and done with it and they're still watching. So...remember spoilers.

And here is yet another spoiler space.....

?

?

ad space: Read Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried: Excellent Book!

.

.

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I agree that it's pretty risky what they're undertaking. I mean, we don't want Daria becoming Moesha, as Glenn once said. Still it opens the show up for some interesting storylines. And keep in mind the possible conflict: Tom's not going to let Daria go back into her shell if the ending of IIFY is any indication. The question is how much is Daria going to let go of herself? The same situation with Quinn: I don't see her becoming entirely stupid again. If her intelligence begins to creep up to where Daria sees it as a threat......Well, they've been pretty cordial up to this point, but what if that changes?

Jeff M.

In article ,

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watching.

was

they

maturation

far

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don't

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Tom's not

herself? The

again. If

what if

Sort of like the situation in "Quinn the Brain" way back in season 2? Well, I don't think Daria sees herself as just a "brain" any longer; so she shouldn't feel threatened by a more intelligent Quinn.

As to whether Daria goes back into a shell:

This may be a major storyline in season 5. The most likely outcome is that she'll reach a happy medium with a good deal of struggle. She's come so far that she can't go back completely and permanently without the series turning into an utter tragedy.

The same applies with Quinn. I don't really think she was ever "entirely stupid", but she was almost entirely superficial. Again, a total regression would be utterly tragic.

By the way, my local TV listings still show "Daria" as a "comedy".

I don't think we'll get a situation like QTB this season. But at the same time we don't know what Daria's reactions will be. She's always been used to Quinn a certain way. As Quinn changes I imagine Daria's perceptions of Quinn will change as well.

Agreed.

She's

I don't think she'll go back into her hole. But it won't be an easy situation for her.

Again, no easy climb out of the hole. She'll have to deal with the possibility of losing her popularity, her place in the Fashion Club and her sense of self. There will be some heartache for her as I imagine there will be for Daria.

There weren't too many laughs for Daria this season. Maybe they'll lighten up a tad for the fifth.

Jeff M.

SPOLIERS FOR "IS IT FALL YET", "FIRE!", AND "DYE DYE MY DARLING"

In article ,

so

same time

to Quinn a

will

is

situation

It's interesting to think about Daria's current situation in light of something Helen said to her way back in "Write Where It Hurts". Helen said that Daria could always be honest about the way things are, but not about her wishes.

Certainly Daria was not honest to herself about her feelings for Tom - and continued to struggle with this well into IIFY to the extent of a pointless (but temporary) breakup.

Does she really wish for Quinn to remain shallow - or will she like the new-improved Quinn?

Will Daria become more "popular", and will she like it?

What other wishes does she have and what will happen if she gets them?

Ideas, everybody?

and her

there will be

lighten up

That was an important moment of the series IMHO. It was the first of the three Daria/Helen mother-daughter bonding scenes- the second in Partner's Complaint and the third in DDMD! And it gives us some insight into Daria from someone other than Miss D.

Is the struggle over? I still think there's still some to contend with in the fifth season. While Daria cares for Tom, she hasn't made her feelings public (Ok, they made out at the end of IIFY, but she didn't tell Tom she liked him.) and this may cause some strain. Plus, while Tom acknowledges that the class situation was a problem there was no resolution.

Will she miss her dolly? The one she loved to beat up on all the time? And what will her esteem be like with a smart, cuter sister?

What will happen to that picture Ted took of Daria and Tom in ILAP?

And what about Naomi?

Jeff M

In article ,

Helen

of the

Partner's

There was one in "Psycho-Therapy", too - with Daria giving the advice!

Tom -

with in the

Oh yes.

liked him.)

class

How real a problem was it? Daria has half-admitted it was an excuse for her to avoid really trying to make the relationship work out.

the

time? And

She'll adjust. Eventually :-)

I'll keep waiting for that to surface during season 5.

them?

I forgot about that one. I liked that scene most of all.

Probably it is, but then again we haven't had the Morgendorffer/Sloane family get together yet. How large a town is Lawndale anyway? Based on the Sloanes, I imagine that there's a class of movers and shakers we haven't heard of yet. If that's the case then I think maybe Daria might be entering that orbit which Jane was never exposed . Or was oblivious to. Which would be interesting to see how she handles it. Might not be an issue, but would make for some nice episodes.

I think the fifth season might explore that. We know she wants her family to be happy; that seems to be slowly occurring. I could imagine personal happiness but that's a leap at this point. Is Daria happy?

Jeff M.

On 19 Dec 2000 22:21:53 GMT, [email] (JMorris830) wrote:

A possibility: the Sloane house (mansion?) might be located in Crewe Neck, the gated community that's home to Brittany and her family. The Sloanes probably make the Taylors look poor by comparison, but it would not be beyond believability for them to live there. (In my area, for example, there's the middle- to upper-middle class city of St. Clair Shores -- my hometown, BTW -- and located right next door is the city of Grosse Pointe, which is home to many well-off families. Smack in the middle of *it* is the Ford Mansion. Yes, "Ford" as in Ford Motor Company...)

Martin
(send all e-mail to "[email]")
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In article ,

Morgendorffer/Sloane family

imagine that

Another Michigander here, eh? I spent my early years in Livonia, though I live in Pennsylvania now. I toured the Edsel and Eleanor Ford home just a few years ago, so I know the area you're referring to. For those not familiar with Grosse Pointe, the REALLY big mansions face onto Lake St. Clair and the RELATIVELY modest homes are, as the locals say, a mere $2 million dollars from the lake :-).

There's a map of Lawndale in The Daria Diaries, and I can't see any place that looks obviously richer than Crewe Neck. Though if the Sloanes live there, it makes me wonder how Jane got to Tom's house in DDMD. Tom was surprised to see her; wouldn't she have had to call from the gate?

M Man said:

SPOILERS for IIFY
*
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*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
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*
*
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*

• She may have been there before and thus been known to the guard,

• She may have simply slipped through a hole in the fence or suchlike.

In article ,

from

suchlike.

Of course, it's just a guess that Tom lives in Crewe Neck.

The guard we saw in "The Invitation" DID seem pretty clueless.

war. On

too

There is such a thing as overthinking these things; that might have been technically correct but it's an acceptable gaffe for good storytelling (and that dramatic confrontation).

But if your going to do it anyway, just for fun, like the Trekkies do...

Personally, I DON'T think the Sloans live in Brittney's neighborhood, so this may not be an issue. Rich or not, I don't see the Sloans being paranoid enough about the crime rate in Lawndale to hire a full-time security staff.

Very in character for her. I picture all the Lanes as the type of kids who sneak into the drive-in movies a la "The Outsiders".

Pierce

Profile: Physically unremarkable

In article ,

light of

but

advice!

the

Morgendorffer/Sloane family

That will be interesting when it happens.

imagine that

Hard to tell how big Lawndale is. It seems to be a suburb of a large city. We've seen enough of it in various episodes to know it has an upper middle-class section (Daria's neighborhood), some richer areas (the Landons), even gated sections (the Taylors), some 50s-60s tract houses (seen in Legends of the Mall), and some large but somewhat run- down older homes (the Lanes, I'm guessing, live in such a house). So it has a lot of sections and can't be too small. But it only has one public high school, apparently, and not such a huge one if all the kids can fit into a modest-sized gym for a pep rally. Maybe someone can recall some more definite clues?

I don't suppose all of the Sloane's crowd live in Lawndale, anyway.

was never

she

episodes.

Jane made some comments in IIFY that implied she'd "entered the orbit" and then stayed away voluntarily. And Tom, based on comments he made to Daria in the same episode, didn't think Jane fit in with his family, either.

family to

happiness

Not yet.

I'm remembering now something Daria said to Helen in DDMD - that she had reached a point where she could "deal with" school and home. Sounds like Daria's spent a lot of time and effort trying to find a point of equilibrium even if the situation was less than ideal. But kissing Tom changed all that. Now Quinn's changing, which will affect Daria. And Daria's in her last year of high school, presumably with college to follow. Everything's going to be changing.

She can't go back.

M Man writes:

I'm guessing in the neighborhood of 50,000, like the town I live near (Quincy, IL). One public high school, big enough to have a successful football team, a track team, and plenty of very specific cliques. There's an upscale country club, one upscale private high school (Tom's mom seemed surprised that Daria didn't attend Tom's school), and apparently a few golf courses for Jake to play on with clients. The mall that we see when Daria gets a job selling nuts doesn't seem very big; just your typical one-story small-town mall with shops down the middle.

When the class goes on a field trip to a big mall, they seem to be on the road for a while, so I'd say they went to a bigger town some distance away. (Maybe the Mall of America in MN?) But it wasn't too far for the Fashion Club to talk a guy into driving to, so I'd guess an hour or two away.

Another possible clue: When Daria and Jane went to a movie, the theater wasn't very big, at least from the outside. No mega-movie-plex, anyway. On the other hand, it was showing a foreign film, so it probably wasn't the town's main theater.

Aaron

In article ,

Juding from the various sections I mentioned, I suspect Lawndale is a former small town that grew up in waves, mostly since WW2. As opposed to a "new" suburb built from scratch on former farmland or wooded land.

I think it was definitely mentioned in "Malled" that the Mall of the Millenium was 100 miles away. So two hours is about right.

Can't be too small a place if it has "niche" movie theaters.

M Man writes:

Right. We see areas with older tract houses, that would predate the suburbs a bit. Quite a bit of diversity in the housing for a suburb.

Unless there's a college. Every college town has at least one 'artsy' theater. :-)

I thought of another clue: we're told that the warehouse store is "new" and "on the edge of town." That definitely puts my population estimate in the 50K-100K range, and makes me more sure that Lawndale isn't a suburb.

Aaron

In article ,

There are a lot of suburbs like this. Formerly small towns outside of a major city - then city grew outward to meet the town, the town grows too. The tract houses would not predate the suburb - they would be the first sign of changeover from a small town to a suburb. Then come the more pricey places, and gated communities.

Hmmm. But we've never heard any hint of a college in Lawndale.

There was a song in "Daria!" called "Morning in the 'Burbs".

Why can't a suburb have a new warehouse store? Or an edge of town? The major city may be surrounded by suburbs with suburbs bordering on more rural areas.

M Man writes:

I guess it depends on what you call a 'suburb.' I think of a suburb as a housing area next to a city, where the people who live there still work and shop in the city. Once that area grows to the point where it becomes self-sufficient, with its own school system, malls, etc., I don't think of it as a suburb anymore. It's just a town that happens to be next-door to a city. :-)

I guess Lawndale could be a suburb that started in the 1940's or so, judging by the housing, and has grown to a self-sufficient town.

Aaron

M Man said:

It pretty much has to be, it has a decent-sized traditional "downtown."

Are you refering to Dega Street? That's a main tract of town, at the most, NOT a "downtown".

Pierce

Profile: Physically unremarkable

SPOILER:

<

Agreed. And it all started with a kiss...

Imagine having everything set up perfectly in your life-about as perfect as someone like Daria can have it- and having a Tom stumble into it. No wonder she was so angry in that scene in DDMD. While we figure in IIFY she's gotten back what she lost, perhaps she hasn't entirely. It's a whole new ballgame for her.

On the matter of where the Sloanes live (which I so innocently started), I'm speculating they live sort of on the outskirts of the town, if not in Lawndale. Tom's house appeared to be in a wooded area. It probably wouldn't be too hard to get to, but then again maybe they don't get too many visitors up there, hence the surprise Tom had upon seeing Jane.

Jeff M.

In article , M Man writes

It's fictional therefore it has one of everything that any of the writers ever needed for a plot :-)

I think Daria could safely leave school and get a job writing some new material for Jo Brand. Jane might look towards Korea for some interesting career opportunities :-)

I,JM fzfpqkyivvVqppkpWqppkkivvZpzkkkvi

In article , "I,JM" wrote:

run-

kids

Well, that's certainly true of the surrounding area.

In "College Bored" we saw Middleton College, founded in 1776, with colonial artifacts. That's gotta be on or near the east coast.

But "Speed-Trapped" obviously takes place in the western USA.

Seen from the UK, where most of our knowledge comes from tv and films, it has to be in Southern California.

In article ,

It sure does look like it.

Could be Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, or Nevada, though. Even Utah.

Is Daria shot on location? :-) :-) :-)

*HUH!?*

Pierce

Profile: Physically unremarkable

Pierces888 wrote:

Obscure reference. "The Electric Company", a PBS TV show of the early '70s had a closing segment called "Love of Chair", a spoof of soap operas, featuring a guy standing next to a chair while the voice over spun some grand story. It always ended with: "And what about Naomi? Tune in tomorrow for 'Love of Chair'."

Peace Kevin

They don't get much more obscure. But at least I know what "The Electric Company" was. Thanks, Kevin.

Pierce

Profile: Physically unremarkable

had

featuring a

It

OMFG!!!

You definately jumped in the Wayback Machine for that one!! I do remember Electric Company, but I didn't remember that particular skit until you reminded me.

This is the second Electric Company reference I've had in as many days.

I saw a Nike commerical doing an updated version of an old Electric Company skit. There are two people facing each other in a dark room. One is on the left of the screen saying "B" and one on the right side saying "OING". And then in unison they complete the word "BOING"

For those who were there know what I'm talking about...

They even got the original music that accompanied the old skit!

Oh those Madison Avenue bastards! Will they continue to pimp my most cherished memories for profit and gain??

<SIGH>

Answer: Hell yes! However the stuff they are dragging back out into the daylight would probably be forgotten otherwise.

Martin Sylvester wrote in message news:90ti7i$ec5$[email]...

Thanks for the warning. I wish I had read it earlier. My recorder didn't start so it was only by sheer luck that I was in and was able to manually start it recording. Of all the eps to miss, this would have really hurt.

What did you think of it? It's got to be the best of S4 by far.

Jeremy.

[email] (Jeremy Mills) wrote in :

Yeah, though I didn't get to read it until thismorning :)

Indeed. Though I have yet to check I set mine to start at 15.45, and end at 16.45...as I was gonna be out due to real life (TM).

One of the best yes.

Phill.

Phill Harvey-Smith wrote in message news:[email]...

at

I've just finished watching it again and had fun spotting the minor characters in the crowd. It's a shame about Troy Gupty, It seems that Daria's 'deprogramming' has worn off :)

Dr Shar & Rock and Roll Randy seem an interesting couple :)

J.

Sorry, perhaps I should have put in spoiler space, though I can't think of anywhere in the world apart from the UK who hasn't seen it yet...