Time for a letter-writing campaign to the NY Post?

I'm not saying he isn't right about much of MTV's content, but to say MTV has contributed absolutely nothing worthwhile--ignoring Daria completely--is nothing short of asinine.

The paper I read, the Philadelphia Daily News, provides e-mail address of their writers so you can write directly. This rag does not. So might I suggest writing to Faye Penn: [email] (who is in charge of the Entertainment section of the paper).

http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/36250.htm

I HATE MY MTV By ADAM BUCKMAN

July 31, 2001 -- I can't think of one single thing MTV has ever done to earn the thanks of anyone who isn't a member of *NSYNC.

To me, the network's contribution to our world over the last two decades has been nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. A big goose egg.

On the eve of the network's 20th anniversary celebration tomorrow night, it seems appropriate to point out that the only segments of mankind that have benefited from the creation of MTV are the corporation that owns it and the music-industry lowlifes with which it does business.

Anyone else would be hard- pressed to identify a portion of their lives that has been improved by the advent of MTV.

Among those whose lives have definitely changed for the worst in the MTV era are any artists over the age of 25 who don't happen to be pretty enough to make the network's playlist.

Thanks to MTV, gone are the days when a gawky teen equipped only with a guitar, a rebellious spirit and authentic musical ability could rise to the top.

On today's MTV, Joey Ramone and Pete Townshend would likely be ineligible for airplay.

And yet, the cable network loves to boast about its influence on youth, citing the widespread adoption among its young viewers of the styles it showcases on its programs and videos.

But when it's taken to task for the negative and, at times, downright injurious influence of some of its shows - among them, "Beavis and Butt-head," "Jackass" and others - MTV has a way of turning right around and suddenly claiming it has no influence at all on the young people who watch its programs.

When they're not patting themselves on the back for their role in persuading millions of teens to pierce their eyebrows and bellybuttons, MTV execs can't resist bragging about the part their network has played in the evolution of pop music over the last 20 years.

The network seems to believe with all its heart that it has remained through the years on the cutting edge in discovering and nurturing new musical talent.

Well, I'm sure there is no shortage of new musical talent out there who would be glad to refute that claim.

They will tell you that access to the MTV promotional machinery is available only to mainstream acts backed by the world's most powerful entertainment conglomerates. Why? Because the multimillion-dollar video revolution MTV wrought has priced all but the groups sponsored by the biggest corporations out of the market for exposure on MTV.

And how does MTV use its power as the gatekeeper of pop music?

It plays Eminem videos for months on end in the middle of the afternoon for your pre-teen kids to absorb until they can't resist running out to the mall to buy the Eminem CD with all the four-letter words that MTV bleeped out.

This is the youth culture that MTV brags it brought about and wants everyone to join in celebrating tomorrow night.

You might ponder the quality of that culture the next time your 12-year-old flashes you the middle finger.

In article ,

Quite true. I'd even go further and say that MTV's animation has been, on the whole, quite excellent and noteworthy:

"Liquid Television" was somewhat hit-or-miss, but I applaud the attempt to create a forum showcasing a wide variety of animation styles and subjects. There's been nothing like it before or since, although Cartoon Network should really do something similar.

I loved "The Maxx." Deeply. Dark, sad, and beautiful, it really deserved more attention than it got. Of course most of this is due to Sam Keith, who created the comic, but kudos to MTV for choosing to produce it, not totally screwing it up, and finding excellent voice actors.

"The Head" had an interesting story, although it suffered from being basically one-note and having poor animation.

I thought "Aeon Flux" was brilliant, if often disturbing. Complex, surreal stories with many layers of meaning and imagery, something you really had to watch multiple times and actually (*gasp*) think about.

So, of course, that leaves "Beavis and Butthead." I would even claim that, on some level, this thing was better than many critics give it credit for. In one sense it was actually incredibly ironic, poking fun at the members of the audience who liked it for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately there were far too many of those - it would be like people watching "Fawlty Towers" and taking Basil as some kind of role model.

(Any other shows I've forgotten about?)

Plus, of course, in the fabled Early Days MTV's videos actually WERE innovative. While I have no illusions that videos were ever anything beyond ads for records, there was a time where they managed to be clever, engaging, and visually creative. MTV also used to cater to wider tastes, at least for a few hours a week, before they latched on to the pre-teen demographic that seems most profitable.

In other words, this whole piece boils down to "The Media is corrupting our youth!!!!" Yawn. MTV's history is a long and complex one, and I'm sure many intelligent essays on the topic of MTV as both a reflection of and influence on popular culture have been written. This thing from the Post wasn't one of them. Of course, MTV's own self-congratulatory 20th anniversary show won't be either.

In any case, it's probably not worth getting worked up over. If the writer is even aware of "Daria" he probably turned a deliberate blind eye since it's a data point that doesn't support his thesis.

In article , Larne Pekowsky wrote:

Certainly CN have the means to do it. If they re-thought the "Cartoon Cartoon/Premiere/What A Cartoon" strategy, they could produce some really good stuff. Possibly along the lines of the Canadian NFB stuff. From recent posts to raam, it looks like they may be looking at that, though the proof will only come in time, I guess.

Yup. Can't argue this one.

I wasn't drawn to this, possibly because of the animation quality. Whilst I like a good storyline, the artwork is an important side that has been neglected in too many western animation series.

Again, I had trouble with this title. The distended stylings didn't endear me to this...

I would have written this one off too except that the storylines got to me before the artwork revolted me! Mind you, it's a good job that it was made in small doses since I doubt I could take a lot of B&BH in one go...

Nothing new there. Let's face it, the whole industry is geared to fleecing the young, rather than entertaining the wider audience. They know that at a certain age they can play any shit and as long as they can convince the kids that it is *their* music, then it gets swallowed whole. The problem is that there are no real entrepreneurs in the industry anymore. You notice that Supergroups (i.e. ones that stay popular for a decade or more) are becoming fewer, and many of the ones in circulation date back to the 60's, 70's and 80's...

Trouble with "yoof" culture is that it is totally manufactured, and only sheepoids follow it. OK, that may be sour grapes from an old fart like me, but these sheepoids were around in my day too, as were the people behind the "yoof" culture that was in vogue then. If you dig down and look at the folk behind "yoof" culture, you will find that they are all old farts like me. The difference is that I'm not asking anyone to swallow any bullshit.

Consider Val (as in Val)...

Biiiiiiiig surprise...

Did you bring me my payment, the tender liver of a newborn babe?

Jeg7777 wrote:

<snip article schtuff>

this is an article that leaves me divided. yes, i agree that mtv's animated programs have (in general) been phenomenal, especially daria. but really, mtv seems to treat those programs almost as embarassments (downtown, anyone?), like "we're playing this, but really, we think you should be watching trl instead, so ignore this." i've never understood this attitude.

and while mtv came out a few months before i was born (jeezus that makes me feel embarassingly young), i remember watching mtv in the mid to late-80s. i remember being 4 or 5, watching michael jackson, madonna, weird al, billy ocean, duran duran, motley crue, etc. i remember looking in the tv guide, and mtv had three hour slots that said "music videos" "music videos" "music videos", on and on and on.

now what do i see? a half-hour of "music videos", followed by the real world, followed by diary, then trl, then endless shows that have *nothing* to do with music.

i haven't watched *anything* on mtv, except daria, in almost a decade. when they cancelled headbangers ball (sniff), i said "screw this".

even when i'm watching daria, i feel *embarassed* that i have mtv on. why? because it's absolutely vapid, and other than daria, it's just not fun anymore.

it's ironic, considering i'm right around the target age (or maybe at 19, a little bit above it) they're shooting for. but the mtv i want is the stuff that's been ignored for years, the stuff they started out with.

had in.... '86 was it? i was a whole 3 years old, but i vividly remember that.

sorry for the whole "mtv today sucks" rant that i've read many times before. needed to vent.

ja ne hotaru, who's still a huge monkees fan:D

Hotaru said:

But quite a lot with really shallow people acting stupid and sleazy. Ironically, this is exactly the sort of thing Daria would get sarcastic about -- and that _Downtown_ quite succssfully parodied.

That makes you feel embarrassingly young? MTV came out 2 years before I was born. That makes me even younger than you.

I do remember the VJ's and long blocks of music videos, though. My parents used to watch MTV and VH1 all the time.

No joke. MTV is not my channel. It doesn't appeal to me at all. I don't think very highly of the batches of screaming groupies on TRL. Just watching MTV makes me feel like a traitor to my principles. (or something like that)

I would've liked to see the MTV that VH1 showed on some history of music videos. Andy Warhol? So nifty. But, of course, that certainly wouldn't make any money. Gotta have the musical clones.

jessica

hotaru writes:

And it wasn't always that way. MTV certainly didn't act embarrassed about B&B, and they even promoted their other animation like The Maxx, Aeon Flux, The Head, and others. It's only been in the last few years that they've decided to become totally mainstream and shuck everything that's even slightly 'alternative' or intellectual.

Now that they have M2, they don't seem to feel a need to show videos on MTV anymore. Good thing, too, since they can't spare the airtime from Real World et al. Funny thing is, I have M2, and have *never once* watched it. I kind of enjoyed watching videos when they were interspersed with cool animation and other stuff, but just straight videos? No thanks.

It doesn't help that videos (and most of the music they come with) suck these days compared to the '80s. Back then music was fun and innovative, and videos reflected that. No more. As far as that goes, I agree with the original article writer (although he's about 5-10 years late in noticing). But I wouldn't blame it on MTV, since the same trend has happened in country music about the same time.

I'm watching some of the "20 years" stuff today, and it's depressing to see how much more fun MTV used to be. They've showed some of the great promos and guest spots from the past, that just make today's MTV seem even more lame in comparison. Heck, even old shots of Kurt Loder doing the news look hip next to the depressingly vapid and PC "Undressed."

MTV is no longer interested in you or me as viewers. They've firmly targeted the voyeur-laden mainstream teen market with all their reality shows and all the "fan-participation" garbage like TRL. When you look at their lineup, it's really a wonder Daria lasted as long as it did.

Aaron

If it's any consolation, the Chicago Sun-Times said that Daria was one of the ten best things to come from MTV.

"GeoBQn" wrote in message news:[email]...

the

THE TEN BEST THINGS FROM MTV.......

• Daria

End of list.

Mike Nassour said:

I also liked Downtown, Beavis and Butthead, and a few other of their animations. I also think that, back in the days when they actually ran _music videos_ instead of endless "ooh, look at the cool kids having SEX!!!" type shows, the network was fun.

Hw�t! We have heard of the glory of "Mike Nassour" that wrote news:YAKa7.15759$[email], on the day of 03 Aug 2001:

Daria's definitely the best, but I have to throw in a nod to "Just Say Julie," which was a nasty parody of everything on MTV at that time. (I still fondly remember the ep where Satan turned the New Kids on the Block into singing cockroaches.) I believe Julie Brown was also showing videos and ridiculing them before Beavis and Butt-Head ever got the idea. MTV ended up dropping her and focusing on 'Downtown' Julie Brown instead...that was the beginning of the end.

Mark Steese a/k/a Corvus Marinus Miss Julie *was* the hottest little henna-head on MTV!

Mark Steese said:

I loved that show.

I suspect that MTV didn't realize what they were getting in _Just Say Julie_. Julie Brown's character was an airheaded, slutty "party girl" (her current _Strip Mall_ character is the degenerated middle-aged version of that one) -- I suspect some people thought that the show would _glorify_ the lifestyle. Instead, Julie wickedly satired it -- the show's whole point was that people like that are slime. I think the final straw may have been dropped when she attacked Madonna in the "gyno-cam" sketch, which said things that I'm sure a lot of people had been thinking but had never dared to say.

"Mike Nassour" kirjoitti...

Actually MTV has a lot more to offer:

TEN BEST THINGS FROM MTV

• Daria
• Daria marathons
• Other Daria reruns
• B&B episodes featuring Daria
• Other programs featuring Daria
• Daria multimedia products
• Daria home videos
• Other Daria merchandise
• MTV's Daria web site
• Daria desktop goodies (nowadays unavailable)

"Aapo Laitinen" wrote in message news:KH9b7.52$[email]...

Some of the Daria Desktop goodies are still up at the MTV site.

For Season 4 click the link below:

http://www.mtv.com/mtv/tubescan/animation/daria/downloadables.html

For Season 3 click the link below.

http://www.mtv.com/mtv/tubescan/animation/daria/daria_CHP2/index.html

Firah

"Firah" kirjoitti...

I was already aware of those. Unavailable for a casual visitor without a hacking instinct, that is. ;)

The question is, why didn't they either move the goodies to the new version or archive the back versions and link them properly?

"Aapo Laitinen" wrote in message news:nfrb7.39$%[email]...

version

Because MTV never really cared for Daria and always treated anything having to do with the show like a red haired stepchild...with freckles!

I think if the show was named 'Quinn' or 'Brittany' MTV would have treated it much better. Then the show would appeal to the demographic they have been targeting for the past 2 years.

Firah

"Firah" kirjoitti...

Or is their web site department just too ignorant to understand the value of archived information?

The Season Four version of the site was much more engaging in terms of both visual design and content than the Season Five version is, but apparently all the other MTV sub-sites were revamped too at the same time in order to create some kind of a uniform "web brand". So the visual design had to go, but why did they discard so much content and goodies? Is cut and paste really such an hard task?

In the other hand, they (who?) actually bothered put up a competition. And if I remember right, I once saw a "Daria" promotion banner on the MTVA front page (and I visit the MTVA web site about 0.75 times a month, MTVE site even less often :). "World According to Daria" and "Encyclopedia Sardonica" (or whatever) seem to get occassional updates, too.

Come on, MTV managers and average viewers can't be *that* stupid. Even though if the show was named "Quinn" and Quinn was the center of focus, but presented in sarcastic or otherwise negative light, they'd be as repulsive towards it as they are now. [1]

In case you didn't mean the series to be #206-alike, I agree with you. However, how could the show compete against all the other teenx-shows already having a well-established brand? Even though "Daria" attracts only a small portitions of the viewers, the show faces little or no competition.

I'd well imagine that many of the "Daria" fans fitting the official target audience prefer other *quality* mainstream fiction ("West Wing", "Any Day Now", "Frasier" et cetera), but at least to my knowledge there is no other show starred by a *normal-looking* [2] teen girl or guy with an *intellectual* attitude and *high moral standards*. Even though certain teenx-shows feature brainy characters, they are usually comic sidekicks. "Absolutely Fabulous" is close, but the genre of the show is parody with lots of comedy of situation, while "Daria" is clearly a much more serious show despite the humorous undertones. [3]

[1] In the other hand, I must admit that I know person who didn't know that "Son of the Beach" is a parody before I told him.

[2] Despite certain scenes -- for example, the one in "Sappy Anniversary" (#ican'tremember, I've never actually seen it, just read the transcript) -- Daria would quite probably classify as a "normal looking" person. If she had a extraordinary cosmetic trait (face-wide battle scars, for example :), they would most likely be significant enough to be drawn.

[3] Try it! Take a video capture of a normal "Daria" episode, chop off 5-10 minutes of dead time (be grand!) and add background laughter effects. You end up with something that may actually be rather funny but definitely not "Daria".

"Aapo Laitinen" wrote in message news:iNRb7.169$[email]...

of

both

go,

front

even

treated

Well, I don't know It seems that MTV went through a devolution when it started to cater to the early-teen crowd about 2 years ago.

Even

but

That's correct. I mean if they made a show called "Brittany" or "Quinn" with all the vapid, shallow, behavior intact; and taken seriously!

Imagine a shows making fun of everything that Daria represents.

That's scary.

a

Well the show(s) I proposed would have 'stiff' (pun intended) competition now. Unless they mutated the 'Brittany' cartoon into some soft-core, anime, panty flashing version of itself.

<In the next episode of Brittany...more fan service!> :)

Which is what I'm talking about it. It seems that MTV doesn't want want to create shows of that caliber. They will only air the most insipid, stupid, low-level, sensalationized brain rot because it appeals to a broader audience.

I mean look at shows like Jerry Springer, or take MTV's ultimate ode to bad taste "Jackass"

Firah

Firah said:

The _depraved_ early-teen crowd, at that. The sort of people you saw in the movie _Kids_.

I think it's called _Saved by the Bell_. Or _Beverly Hills 90210_. Or _Dawson's Creek_. Actually, there's no shortage of shows like that.

Actually, I find _Sailor Moon_ a thematically mature show compared to most "serious" teen dramas or sitcoms.

I think it's more than that -- I think that _Daria_ actively offends some people at MTV, probably for the same reasons that Daria herself offended Val. _Daria_ is "anti-teen" -- or, more accurately, anti the mass-produced, amoral, shallow concept of youth.

"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote in message news:[email]...

the

An excellent observation.

with

_Dawson's

But that would be the general theme of the shows I hypothetically proposed.

anime,

Okay. I was thinking about Cutey Honey myself but you can go on thinking what you like.

:)

to

stupid,

audience.

Val.

amoral,

Ah yes, I think that's the real reason why the suits at MTV never 'really' wanted to support Daria after the channel changed its focus and went after the 'depraved teen' set.

That's also why Glen Eichler really had to close up shop. Those bastards probably wanted to water-down Daria into some pale, shallow, version of itself.

I use for an example those awful Kevin/Brittany-centric episodes that aired earlier in Season 4. Some MTV suit saw Kevin and Brittany on one of the inner monitors and said to himself, "Damn those two kids look good! Quick, get Eichler on the phone! Tell him I want those two to get more screen time. Devote a few episodes to those two kids. We'll get a wider audience."

Eichler obliged by making two of the worst episodes of the entire series starring those two kids: "A Tree Grows In Lawndale" and "Murder She Snored".

It may have cost Eichler another season of Daria but it kept the shows integrity.

Sounds far fetched huh?

I call it Daria Conspiracy Theory Number 3.

Firah

[email] (Jordan S. Bassior) writes:

If it doesn't offend them, they simply aren't paying attention.

Aaron

... assuming they're offendable.

M Man

Aaron Buagher said:

The revolution will not be tele ... oh wait, that's the problem.

I saw a slam poetry thing last year, and one of poems I remember opened,

"The revolution will not be on TRL..."

Jordan S. Bassior wrote in message news:[email]...

the

with

_Dawson's

anime,

to

stupid,

audience.

Val.

amoral,

Or, to borrow a song title/lyric from the Red Hot Chili Peppers (who aren't from California) the version that has been spread by Californication.

"Jordan S. Bassior" kirjoitti...

However, it seems that "Daria" is actually so profitable business that they don't want to sell it away even if it hurts their brand. I'd imagine that Comedy Central, for example, could be rather willing to buy the rights to the show and acquire some of the key staff.

Another option would be spinning off a smaller company which would take care of marketing and promoting those MTV Animation shows that don't fit the MTV brand. That way the shows could be actively promoted to the TV companies and viewers, they would not be associated with MTV and the flow of money to MTV would stay constant or even increase.

Aapo Laitinen said:

She wasn't the star character, her attitude was "tough-smart" rather than purely "intellectual," and her morals underwent one notable period of lapse (*), but Darlene Conner (from _Roseanne_) is close to what you're describing.

(*) When she first cheated on and then dumped David. This wasn't portrayed as a happy fun jolly period in her life, though, and she eventually got back together with and married David.

And they lack both realism and integrity. Their "braininess" is portrayed in Spock-like terms, with wild talents and devotion to bizarrely anti-emotional philosohpies, and they all secretly envy the normal.

Very true. It would be interesting to see what Saffron would make of Daria.

Daria is physically unremarkable -- most people would probably consider her plain on first encounter -- her beauty is most definitely personality-dependent. Of course, she deliberately chooses to look that way.

In article , [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

My suspicion is Saffron would at least find Daria interesting for a few eps.

Steve Cross

Has anyone check mtv.com today? All you get is a page telling you that mtv.com is being redesigned and "check back soon".

M Man

Although the writer did make some salient points (like the fact that folks like Townshend and Ramone would have trouble in today's MTV), he misses the baot completely, by forgetting about what MTV did for Youth Culture.

Here's some stuff NPR did which sheds MUCH better light on it (and is MUCH more enlightened on the issue (and much more well-rounded)): http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2001/aug/mtv/010801.mtv.html

"Daria" was one of the few programs that i watched on MTV in the last couple years after "120 minutes" disappeared off the radar screen. With the dearth of videos, I've pretty much tuned out, (I wish i could get MTV2/M2 *in Jake voice* "DAMN CABLE COMPANIES!".

One last thing: don't count MTV completely out. With this new Unplugged thing coming to MTV2, and music stabilizing...things are getting better. Just don't worry too much...it goes up and down..."same as it ever was".....

Peace,

Josh

i'm gonna miss that, jake exploding over nothing. you got it just right, too...