Character Development (Spoilers for 405)

SPOILERS for 405 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This episode was primarily character development.

The big one was Jane's attempt to fit in, which she was actually enthusiastic about. Jane's always wanted to be accepted but been unable to fit in. She's slowly been expanding her circle of those who accept her for who she is: first Trent, then Daria, and now Tom. This episode gave her a chance to "try on" the role of being "popular".

Note how everyone who already liked Jane reacted to the "new Jane" ... namely with horror. Daria was utterly shocked to see Jane's "new look." Trent felt that Jane "really needed help." Tom was actually repulsed (this is understandable; he probably fell in love with Jane precisely because of who she was, and seeing her try to be somebody else would be very upsetting to him).

In the end, Jane realized that the price of conformity would be that her whole life, even in its most intimate details (friendship and love) would have to be spent in the company of people she despised. She chose to stick with a few people who really love her for herself over many people who would approve of her for a facade. Which was healthy.

The frailty of Kevin and Brittany's popularity was shown. Kevin is "nothing" without being "the QB"; Brittany, Mack, and perhaps Daria are the only people who really like him for himself rather than for his playing ability (Note that Mack stuck up for Kevin; he certainly didn't have to).

Likewise, all it took was a few depressing comments from Brittany for her fellow cheerleaders to desert her. Kevin, Jodie, and Daria are her only real friends. (Note that Jodie stuck up for her, and also didn't have to).

Daria actually bothered to help Mr. O'Neill. I always got the impression that she didn't hate him; now I'm pretty sure of that. I think she rather feels sorry for him, actually.

Daria's quest for failure was amusing but didn't really reveal anything about her that we didn't always know.

It's nice to see that Ms. Barch still likes Mr. O'Neill after the events of "Anti-Social Climbers". Her picture in his house was a cute touch :)

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

wrote:

Actually this is a continuation of themes explored in See Jane Run. It seeems that Jane's alienation is less the reaction of other people and more her own personal choices. When she actually tries to fit in she is more or less successful.

Actually, Jane's new "look" upset me too.

This is a thread that runs through all of the so-called popular characters, the frailty of their popularity. Quinn and her struggles with the Fashion Club, Jodie and her parents(who weren't presented as nicely as in Gifted),even Daria's parents and their situations. How popular is anybody and what is the price of that popularity?

Hey, compare that with the Daria of the first season. Our girl is growing up.

This is where the eps. fails for me. When Daria is reduced to a background character doing nothing. It really would have been interesting to see her responses to the project and what she learned from it.

I agree.

Jeff M

JMorris said (spoilers)
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less successful.

And it's important that she *is* choosing to be the way she is; that this isn't being inflicted on her by other people. This means that she sincerely wants to be an independent-minded artist; that this isn't simply a "role" she's "settling for" because she can't get something "better".

And me ... and for the same reason that it upset Daria, Trent, and Tom. Because we love the *real* Jane.

I don't know ... I actually *like* that they're devoting more attention to the secondary characters. Kevin, Brittany, Mack, and Jodie are becoming *people*, rather than merely stereotypes.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

On 01 Apr 2000 17:40:42 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

Hmmm... maybe it's more of a question of spacing... we've only really had one really good in-depth Daria episode, and even it was heavily peppered with the other characters. (PC) After that, for the next 4 eps, it seems as if she's not the title character anymore, and I find that VERY annoying, after waiting 7 months for new eps. You and I know that eventually they'll get back to her (I hope!), it's just annoying that we haven't gotten any really good stuff. It's all just been a little... bland... IMO. *Shrug.* I know we'll have to wait till June/July/August for the Good Stuff, though. :P

If you look at the show as episodes that follow various plot branches, it looks as if all of the first five eps have followed the "school" branch exclusively, even though there are other branches that I feel are far more interesting... like the "family" branch, the "Mystik Spiral" branch... there are all sorts of cool places they could go, yet it feels like they're stuck on that one theme.

I guess what really irks me is that they did 2 eps showing that there isn't more to Kevin and Brittany than what we see on the surface, when 1 ep would've been *plenty.* I'd be muuuch more interested in an in-depth Jodie/Mack episode, even at the expense of another Kevin/Brittany-inspired ensemble ep. Personally, I'd like to get a better handle on just what Mack thinks, and what is going on in Jodie's head as well...

Although they do get kudos for giving us a little more info on the Chuckmeister in #403... apparently he's managed to make the ultrasuave thing work for him... sorta. ;-)

It's interesting to see how Quinn and the F.C. have gotten considerably less screen time so far this season. And what was a brilliant setup in "Speedtrapped!" to give us a look into the goofs of Mystik Spiral, hasn't panned out yet. Where's Max???

And of course I want more Amy! ;-)

rich

Max: We're criminales!

Paperpusher said:

*Murder, She Snored* is all about Daria and her perception of the other characters.

I'd especially like to see more of Mystik Spiral. I'd like to see more about the other members; and I would *love* to see an "on the road" story or even story arc, focusing mainly on Trent and the band; possibly with Jane and Daria following them as roadies or something (actually, Daria would make a good *manager*).

Chuck might well wind up as a TV or radio personality. He has a good voice for radio.

Well, how interesting *are* they, really? I do like Stacy, and wish they'd do a story focusing more on her.

Ditto.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

On 02 Apr 2000 08:37:13 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

Hmm... I just thought it was a chance to fit in a lot of gratuitous Detective-Show refs. I didn't see it as in-depth character analysis, just a bad dream caused by too much bad TV. Besides, who *hasn't* had a persecution dream? It's a universal. As is a dream about murdering Kevin... So on that point, I'll agree to disagree. (But what else is new? <g>)

Hmm.. this is a theme that has already been bludgeoned many a time in Fanficland... sometimes well, sometimes not so well. Personally, I'd just like to see the band doing their thing, without a contrived storyline. But I'll take what I can get in that dept. ;-)

And a good face for it, too. ;-)

It's not about them being *interesting*, it's about them being entertaining. And considering that Quinn is kind of a major character, I'd think that she'd figure a bit larger in her cousin-- er sister's life. ;-) Besides, she has a lot of potential to develop as a character as well.... there are all sorts of Quinn plots that are available, it's just a question of whether they're going to use them or not. *Sigh*

rich.

Quinn: People are so weird!

Daria: Some are weird. Some are just astonishingly self-centered and deceitful.

Paperpusher said:

Daria

I don't know about "contrived". If Mystik Spiral ever gets anywhere, they are going to be doing gigs in places other than Lawndale. Jane going is natural, she's Trent's sister. Daria is Jane's best friend, and a fan of Trent's. So why would their presence be strange, assuming that it was a vacation?

Now, if Upchuck or Andrea was going with them, *that* would be "contrived".

They are funny, but there have been a *lot* of "see how shallow and silly the Fashion Club can be" type jokes in the series.

I do think that Quinn's going to mature, and that she has some major episodes on this coming.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Then I have one question... What was *Andrea* of all people doing playing servitor to Upchuck in her dream? :7

Well who doesn't? :)

-IdentityCrisis

idcrisis said:

That was pure warped dream-logic. Although ... it *has* occurred to me that Upchuck and Andrea have more in common than may be obvious at first glance. They're both into fantasy, for example. If Upchuck ditched the "supersuave" routine and simply *talked to her like a normal human being,* she'd probably be his friend.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

paperpusher wrote:

What I'd like to know is way he was looking so depressed and hiding behind his chair in that one scene.

Skyrocket

He asked Sandi out on a date, knowing he would fail, and get his "A". Sandi managed his proposal in the same fashion she did in "Fair Enough", hence his being in a fetal position.

Milo

[email] (Milo Minderbinder) wrote in :

<Butthead> Kick him in the nads Beavis ! </Butthead>

Humm that does irritate me about some of the fanfic stories how Upchuch always seems to be being kicked in the <Buzzcut>TESTICLES</Buzzcut> I mean you'd have thought he'd have invested in an athletic supporter by now :)

Phill.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:12:17 +0000, [email] (Phill Harvey-Smith) wrote:

He probably has, but he knows the ladies like it when he pretends to get hurt... his sort is always looking to score...

rich.

Daria: He said master *painters.*

[email] (paperpusher) wrote in :

<Butthead> uhuhuhuhu we're gonna score </Butthead>

Though Upchuck has demonstrated much more intelegence than Beavis & Butthead ever did :)

Phill.

Hey, most species of sea sponges can make that claim!

Phill Harvey-Smith wrote:

Not in tonight's episode he didn't. Without giving anything away, I think ILAP should quash any and all theories about Upchuck being a brain. ;7

-IdentityCrisis

wrote:

I've been wanting them to do things with the secondary characters since about the second season. I'm glad with what they've done this far and I hope it continues.

Jeff M.

In article ,

enthusiastic

She's

is:

"try on"

more her

less

Jane's got a certain charisma, and I don't think she especially acted any different as "conventional" Jane...she just dressed the part (but I only watched it once, so I might have missed something...the first time I watched it "live", the second time I found out my VCR ran out of tape halfway through). Attracting "friends" shouldn't be too hard for her. But in any case, I think a lot of people who are unpopular-by-choice wonder what it would be like to walk a mile in a popular person's shoes (I know I have, anyway). Jane gets the chance from Mr. O'Neill's bizarre project. I wouldn't be surprised if Jane had the "conventional" idea in her head from the start and just tried to get Daria to suggest it so it wouldn't look like her own idea.But once she got as far as trying out for the cheerleading squad, she realized that it's a nice place to visit, but she wouldn't want to live there.

And again, the ending just kind of left me going "Huh?" because it was so weirdly placed. Interesting new alter-egos, though, in cluding, you'll notice, one for Tom.

Didn't bother me. I see it in the mirror every day... .::krimren::. http://angelfire.lycos.com/music/7startsgreen/index.html Lenny: Hey, did you hear something? Carl: No. Lenny: Hmm. Did I? Carl: [exasperated] I don't know.

"Jordan S. Bassior" wrote in message news:[email]...

namely

felt

of who she

him).

It works both ways. Jane was initially confused by Daria's "new look" when she asked, "Where are your glasses?"

And if Tom might have rejected his girlfriend because of her "look" then of what use is he? I would have hoped he could be supportive of her attempt to explore new aspects of her personality--especially since it was part of a class assignment. As it happened, Tom wasn't really repulsed, only surprised. Kevin and Brittany's response to their change in status was more telling.

"nothing"

people

(Note that

This is simply a demonstration of the tenuous nature of high school popularity: What team you're on, how well that team is doing, what your father and/or mother do for a living and how much money they make, what kind of car you drive or whether you even have a driver's license. Life isn't like that--at least not to that degree.

impression that

feels

Just about one of the STUPIDEST school assignments I've ever heard of. But from what I've read in the news about today's schools it seems quite plausible.

"So what would you like try to fail at?" "Getting an A in this assignment." [Think about it.]

"R. K. Henry" wrote:

So, in this case you would have to fail the assignment. Since you succeeded at failing, then you get an A. But then, you really didn't succeed at failing since you got an A. So in order to fail and thus succeed.............

"Daria! You're giving me a headache!!"

On Sat, 01 Apr 2000 21:08:46 -0500, Jeg7777 wrote:

Hehehehehe. Doesn't that give you flashbacks to Captain Kirk's computer-destroying arguments in the original "Star Trek"? You'd think that programmers in the 23rd Century would know about such things as "circular logic" and be able to compensate for it. :-)

Martin
(send all e-mail to "[email]")
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      Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria!
  http://www.lawndale.net  -OR-  http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/

As Bob Shaw used to say, you'd think that 23rd century spaceship designers would have also heard of things called 'seatbelts', which would prevent the crew getting thrown around the bridge every episode.

Bob Mellish said:

This always bothered me: I could easily see genetic engineering being a lost or forbidden technology, but *seatbelts?*

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

On 03 Apr 2000 08:05:46 GMT, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote:

Well, that's what those "interial dampers" are supposed to be for. Which is why the scriptwriters always have them fail during a heated battle with the Alien Species Of The Week(tm), so that the crew can be thrown around the bridge for Dramatic Impact(tm)... no pun intended.

Martin
(send all e-mail to "[email]")
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
      Outpost Daria: Your Online Database for All Things Daria!
  http://www.lawndale.net  -OR-  http://systech.simplenet.com/daria/

[email] (Martin J. Pollard) wrote in :

<Nitpick> Yeah but has anyone ever considdered this...they change at whim from standing still to warp 9.7 (or whatever)...now if on Earth you sit in a fast car and do 0..60 you experience a force due to acceleration right ? this force is proportional to the change in velocity. Right now inertial dampers cancel out this force right....but if the dampers fail and the ship accelarates *OR* decelerates at anything over 9.8 m/s/s then it's gonna have an adverse affect on the crew...which for small changes in velocity is gonna result in mass black outs.....for high changes (warp 0 to 9.x) is gonna result in well a mess :) and McCoy's ghost saying something like "it's worse than that we're *ALL* dead Jim !" :) </Nitpick>

Trekkies never seem to think about this tho....

Phill.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:20:48 +0000, [email] (Phill Harvey-Smith) wrote:

There are two seperate sets of dampers, silly. One is set exposed on the outer of the ship, waiting to be disabled so they can fly around the bridge. The important ones are actually kept working.

Kyle, he who means well The Shane Andrews of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs

herecomethehawks@hockeymail.....com (Kyle) wrote in :

And there's also the thought that the dampers kick in 1ns too early/late the crew are gonna experience the same extreem forces only *TWICE* as bad so effectivly it's gonna be like hitting a wall at warp 18 :) *SPLAT* There are no recorded cases of this which I find a bit hard to believe, after all space travel may be resonably safe but even in the 23rd centuary they'll have such things as random failures....

Phill.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:14:11 +0000, [email] (Phill Harvey-Smith) wrote:

Warp 18 is impossible. Warp 10 is infinite speed.

Kyle, he who means well The Shane Andrews of alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs

On 4 Apr 2000 23:30:46 GMT, herecomethehawks@hockeymail.....com (Kyle) wrote:

They revised the warp scale - in the beginning I dunno what the max was (if there was any) but they regularly hit into the teens.

Damon Orca on #Stars!

herecomethehawks@hockeymail.....com (Kyle) wrote in :

In TNG yes, I seem to remember an original series episode where some intelegent probe increeses the efficiency of the warp drives to allow them to do Warp 15 :) and I thought we where talking about TOS (the original series). Anyway warp notation aside, it's still twice the force.....

Phill.

On 4 Apr 2000 23:30:46 GMT, herecomethehawks@hockeymail.....com (Kyle) wrote:

Tell that to the writers of the show's last episode; the future Enterprise in that episode hit Warp 13. What I think happened is that, when they started going warp 9 as a matter of corse, and differentiating between 9.99998 and 9.99999 on a regular basis, they decided the old warp scale was silly, and changed the curve to be more semantically comprehendable.

I still have a hard time with the transporters! My God, didn't the writers see "The Fly"?

Milo "still trying to figure out how on a sensor bestudded ship the first evidence that the Klingon moon had exploded in "Star Trek VI" was the vibrations in Captain Sulu's coffee cup" Minderbinder.

Milo Minderbender said:

That sensor also works for rampaging dinosuars :)

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

[email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote in :

Also that ship must have been in Klingon space, or at very least in the neuteral zone, whats more the sensors should have picked the thing up a long time before any 'shock wave' as things like flash from the explosion would travel at the speed of light the shock wave almost cirtainly would not. And anyways even the light flash should have taken months if not years to reach them....unless the laws of physics are different in the 23rd centuary.....oh ywah what laws of physics :)

Phill.

Hey, it's a pretty weird explosion that only "devastates" the planet it occurs on but, light--years away, "damages" some more planets. Any blast that big would have vaporized the first world.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

[email] (Jordan S. Bassior) wrote in :

This is indeed true.....ever calculated the yield in megatons of a photon torpedo which is supposed to contain about 10Kg of antimatter, which if completely converted to energy would release about 100 times more energy weight for weight than the equivelent H-bomb :) Lets put it like this it would be pretty damnd impressive :)

Phill.

On Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:28:16 +0000, [email] (Phill Harvey-Smith) wrote:

10kg would be sufficient to heavily damage/destroy all but the most heavily defended structures on the planet (think buried miles underground), but wouldn't be sufficient to cause substantive damage to the planet itself (I think it's something on the order of quadrillions of tons of mass IIRC)

Damon Orca on #Stars!

In article ,

Yeah 20Kg of energy equiv though rember antimatter takes an equal amount of matter with it :) yes I agree 1 photon is not enough to do that sorta dammage to a planet....the point I was making is they fire them off and they go pop like a firecracker when in reality it would be a much bigger bang :)

Also though such an explosion would not destroy the planet outright it could wreak havoc with it's ecosystems :) think nuclear winter type effect.

Phill.

On 7 Apr 2000 00:00:52 +0100, [email] (Phill Harvey-Smith) wrote:

And nevermind if the anti-matter containment unit is ruptered...*splat*

Heh...maybe a nuclear autumn...regardless, it wouldn't be friendly for anyone anywhere near the impact point :P

Damon Orca on #Stars!

[email] (Damon Domjan) wrote in :

Hey it's a wonder the feds have never thought of this....pase cloaked torpedo....and de-cloak it in the antimater containmet vessel of a starship little boom....followed closely by big boom....messy :) Though they may have thought about it, and decided not to use it as it would make the federation too powerfull...wuch the same reason I believe that they forbode Klingon/Romulan vessels from fireing when cloaked (ok apart from that one in "Undescovered Country").

Heheheh use it on the moon, instant deathstar ! (planet with a big dent in it :) ). yeah it would make Hiroshima look like a small November 5th/July 4th firework :)

Wow I'm debating trek in a.t.d. my gf would be pleased (she's a Trekkie.... :) ).

Phill.

[email] (Phill Harvey-Smith) wrote in :

That should have been phase cloaked :)

Phill, who really shouldn't post till he's woken up properly :)

Actually, if I recall, only the atmosphere of the Klingon homeworld was poisoned, and it would take 50 years before it became uninhabitable.

Which, of course, does not explain why the Klingons "would die as a race". Wouldn't they just head off to another planet in their empire somewhere, kill or export the existing inhabitants, and move in there?

Milo "getting way off topic" Minderbinder.

On Fri, 07 Apr 2000 14:26:24 GMT, Milo Minderbinder wrote:

Because it's *Star Trek*. It doesn't have to make sense (and rarely does :)

Damon Orca on #Stars!

Martin J. Pollard said:

Given that a heavy hit can partially overload the inertial dampeners, one would imagine that physical padding and restraints would be employed as backup systems.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

On the mountaintop, [email] (Jordan S. Bassior) spake thusly:

This is _sad,_ guys. I feel bad for the poor Daria writers forced to read this. ;-)

-Mindy

[email] (Mindy) wrote in :

Hey they are beings of freewill, they are not 'forced' to read it at all. But yes it is indeed sad.....but then again the trekkies might think that what we descuss on a.f.d is sad....I mean obsessing about Daria-Trent and the like :)

Phill.

On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:56:47 +0000, [email] (Phill Harvey-Smith) wrote:

Mindy-- it's still better than arguments over nude cartoon characters. ;-) Believe me, as threads go, this one's harmless. (BTW, I still can't see your posts... oh, well...)

Well, everyone's gotta have a hobby. And, hey, it's better than obsessing about... oh, you know, all sorts of other nasty stuff... Besides, it shows off the ability of groupmembers to be ambigeekstrous-- geeky in just about any medium. ;-)

rich.

"Joseph Stalin, grab my armored muu-muu and together we will leave this foul Earth behind." -- Toon-La.

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That's a good point.

He didn't really reject her. He kissed her. What horrified him was not the "look" but what he thought it implied.

Well ... half and half. He was relieved to find that it was just an assignment; it still kind of bothered him. And I understand why.

They were devastated, because "status" means far more to them than it does to Tom or Jane.

Yes ... alas.

Heh ... good one :)

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

Boy was she. She actually emoted! :7 I shared her sentiment. *Especially* when Jane started talked about continuing to dress that way after the project was over.

I will say though that while I'm glad to have the old Jane back I was disappointed at how they turned four people's lives upside down (hers, Kevin's, Brittany's and O'Neil's) and then managed to cram everything back into the same old mold in the last segment; I'd have liked to have seen more of these fish out of their respective waters. They should have carried some of it over into another episode.

I suspect Mack is a lot like me in some respects. I have a low tolerance for certain kinds of people (okay, *many* kinds of people, it's probably my most Daria-like trait), but I still don't care to see them in pain. I suspect he'd personally rather have Kevin gone (partially based on his succeeding at failing comment), but just isn't mean-spirited enough to let the guy suffer when just a few words from him to the other team members can fix things. Or maybe he just doesn't want to have another losing streak on his hands! ;7

Also, it's interesting that Kevin's been off the team (and without shoulder pads) twice in three episodes. It would be nice if they actually *went* somewhere with that, but things just keep ending up normal by episode's end. It's *also* very interesting that he and Jane keep ending up together in these fantasy sequences. Things that make you go "hmmmm..." ;7

Agreed. She got screwed even worse than Kevin; the team's reason for getting rid of him was at least sensible (he's deliberately screwing up on the field), but those other cheerleaders could give the fasion club a run for it's money in terms of callousness and shallowness. For once Britanny's cluelessness is probably to her advantage; she probably wouldn't be nearly as happy if she realized just how fair-weather most of her friends are.

It's also been interesting (I keep using that word, don't I?) to see (both here and in ATGIL) that both Kevin and Brittany adhere to a code of honor regarding things like popularity and playing football even if, them *being* Kevin and Brittany after all, that code is twisted, absurd and destructive. It's also interesting to see that they actually do love each other in their own way even if, them being Kevin and Britanny after all, that love is *also* twisted, absurd and destructive.

I'm not so sure. She wasn't *going* to help him until Jane pointed out that she could get something out of it. I was actually a little surprised (and disappointed) at that level of callousness coming from her. I would expect her to try and benefit from it, but not to completely blow it off without a possible reward.

-IdentityCrisis

idcrisis said:

I think that in connection with Brittany and Kevin, in particular, there has recently been a *lot* of foreshadowing that they are going to change, and possibly break up. Kevin has virtually no life beyond being a football player ("I'm the QB!"); Kevin and Brittany's love is apparently bounded by "graduation" (the end of their world!); we already know that Brittany's fantasies do *not* include marrying Kevin.

I think that Mack genuinely likes Kevin, despite his idiocy. We've seen them hanging out together in non-football contexts. Kevin's a goof, but he's basically a nice guy. It's hard to hate Kevin; Daria can't, and he keeps innocently insulting her.

I think that both these episodes are exploring the issue of just who Kevin really is, beyond the obvious ("I'm the QB!"). The football uniform is sort of a shield to Kevin; it's symbolic of the way that his high school experience is leaving him totally unprepared for reality. In the little world of Lawndale HS, all he has to do is win games to be loved: but now we see that all he has to do is *lose* them to be hated, and Kevin has in *many* episodes shown that he is too immature to face life beyond high school football.

Kevin may get a lease on his fantasy life by becoming a college football player, or even going pro. But going pro is rare; if he can't do this he is one day (at 21) going to find himself without the shoulder pads, permanently, an overgrown child lost in an adult world in which nobody particularly thinks that he's special.

I really don't think that Jane's going to go for Kevin. Though I think that she likes him more than she lets on. Just like Daria does.

Indeed: it's obvious that they like Brittany purely for her bubbly good cheer; she's not allowed to be depressing or even thoughtful around them. (or heck, even *pseudo*-thoughtful!)

Or her deliberate denial of reality, yes. Quinn, for example, would have understood what had happened.

Yep. Well, they're the best at what they do in the school; they couldn't be the best if they didn't take it seriously. It's quite possible that the reason Mack sucked as QB is that, deep down, he doens't really *believe* in football the way that Kevin does. Certainly, for Mack, football is merely part of a well-rounded life, rather than the center of life it is for Kevin.

Yes. Realistically speaking, it's unlikely to last past the End of the World that is graduation. Kevin doesn't appreciate Brittany enough; and Brittany worships status in a mate. That was made obvious by her liking for the creepy used car salesman, who while creepy was also a richer man, with more access to cars.

Sincerely Yours, Jordan

My impression was more that Kevin follows Mack around a lot and Mack puts up with him.

I don't know... After ILAP, Kevin's starting to look like almost as big a jerk as Upchuck in some ways. Brittany's previous outraged comments on Kevin's fidelity seem justified now.

Agreed, but it's possible that Kevin might make a play at Jane at some point. If something happens regarding the whole "popular and unpopular people can't date" bit.

You're assuming that the vapid airheads in question could tell the differance. :7

Yes, but Quinn's more accustomed to navigating in shark-infested waters, being something of a shark herself. At least Brittany's nice; the only time I ever recall her deliberately doing something malicious (aside from occasionally chewing out Kevin) is when she sabotaged the play in Fair Enough, and even then I don't think she was bright enough to realize how much damage she'd cause. She just wanted to keep Kevin away from Quinn.

Although now that I think about it, it's kind of wierd that Quinn's never tried anything with Kevin, even if only for her own amusement... <shrug>

-IdentityCrisis

On the mountaintop, [email] spake thusly:

What about _The Lab Brat_?

-Mindy

Hmm. Actually I think I only saw bits and pieces of that episode a long time ago, so I don't recall. I'll have to assume that I stand corrected, since Sounds of Cynicism doesn't have that episode.

<Jake mode> DAMN IT! </Jake mode>

I wish they'd get the rest of the season 1 stuff and the "Sealed With a Kick" pilot up.

-IdentityCrisis

In article , wrote:

I've also noticed that, but found it far too disturbing to comment on ;)

Well said.

On Sun, 02 Apr 2000 07:46:47 -0700, Mikel Midnight wrote:

Hey, on one of the message boards, someone who shall remain nameless put forth a Kevin/Daria theory... too bad I forgot it, as it was hysterically funny, and actually well-reasoned, too...

rich.

Jane: Do the names Beavis and Butt-Head ring a bell?

Daria: Ding-Dork.

[email] (paperpusher) wrote in :

Well I rember mentioning here that Helen seemed quite keen on Daria & Kevin working together in "The Lab Brat" :)

Hey I'll go for Daria and (insert name of almost anyone male here *APART* from Trent) :)

Phill.....a comfirmed anit-shipper :)

In article ,

Agreed, as she's been expanding her circle of friends, she's been opening up more to new experiences, she wanted to be the average, or "conventional" Jane this go around. A Jane pre-Tom, or even pre-Daria never would've gotten the nerve to actually try this, I believe. She's now seen popularity from both sides, and would rather stick with those people who accept her for what and who she is.

My reaction was exactly like Daria's. Same exact time as well, when she screamed (for lack of a better word) so did I.

Trent's reaction I expected. He's known Jane longer than anyone else of the 3. If after 17 years, your sister suddenly changed like Jane did or changed vice-versa, as a brother, wouldn't you be at least a bit stunned as well?

Tom's was to be expected as well, he fell in love with the Jane that we did. Definitely proves their a tight unit now. If they weren't truly in love, he'd have either left, or liked it so much, he'd never let her change back, he loves Jane for who she is and not how she looks, which is the way it should be.

Agreed, explained a bit above.

As someone else already has pointed out, Jodie and Mack, and to a slightly lesser extent Daria, are Brittany and Kevin's only "real" friends, most others around them are only there due to their popularity. Without that they're a pair of rudderless ships just drifting along.

I think she's felt sorry for him (a little) since she's known him, it's only been shown recently, as like how she tried to help Kevin in #403.

Didn't figure that one to happen. "Skinny" just doesn't have it in him to leave her high and dry. How about their little rendezvous(sp?) in the maids closet after the teachers conference? He'll do whatever she asks, he'd never have the guts to leave when he actually cares for her, as no other male has done.

A.J.

In article , wrote:

True, but ... she has been popular before, in "See Jane Run".

I didn't, but my girlfriend did ... it was extremely funny.